Been awhile since I built anything new in EDH, so I started looking for new ideas.
- At first, I wanted to use some of the cool new enchantments that were recently created, like Deadbridge Chant and Primeval Bounty (although I haven't actually picked up the latter yet).
- I also knew that enchantments in general are extremely hard to remove in this format, and that I don't currently have a deck based around enchantments as a theme.
- After pulling some more enchantments out of my stock (Mana Reflection, Mirari's Wake, Doubling Season, etc), I realized that BGW was the color combination I wanted, and that Ghave would be perfect in conjunction with things like the Doubling Season I have yet to cast in EDH.
For this section, I'm going to skip over the obvious format staples like Skullclamp and Eternal Witness that need no explanation. Instead, I'm going to focus on how certain cards fit the themes of the deck.
Creatures:
- Vizkopa Guildmage: I've been wanting to play this card for its second ability since it was spoiled. Recently, I activated that ability along with Vault of the Archangel and a bunch of tokens. The end result was the entire table taking 24 damage. Overall, I think there's enough life-gain here to support this card.
- Woodfall Primus: It's a little out of place with the enchantment/token theme, but the reset synergy with Ghave is too good to pass up.
Artifacts:
- Chromatic Lantern: I chose this over more popular choices like Sol Ring and Coalition Relic because it does such a great job of fixing all my colors.
- Cloud Key: Effects like this that lower the cost of other spells seem to be subtle enough for my play group not to directly blow them up the way that something like Gilded Lotus or Caged Sun might get removed.
Sorceries:
- Hallowed Burial, Mercliess Eviction, Terminus: The majority of my team is likely going to be tokens, so it doesn't bother me if they get destroyed or tucked or exiled like most normal decks.
Enchantments:
- Attrition: I used to run this card in a lot of other decks, but eventually cut it due to the "non-black" part. Here's hoping that the abundance of available fodder will make up for that limitation.
- Necromancy: Not sure if there are enough actual creature spells to justify this, but it's 3 mana (Sun Titan) and it has flash, so there's potential.
- Pernicious Deed: This card gives me pause because it can wreck a lot of my otherwise hard to kill enchantments, but its cost and effectiveness seems worth it on paper.
- Sphere of Safety: My playgroup likes attacking, especially if one doesn't have blockers available. Ordinarily I'd just use Ghostly Prison, but this seems like it will add up to more of a deterrant.
This is mostly just a list of things I haven't tested yet, but as more games are logged, it will also become a list of things that get cut. Again, I'm not going to cover all the obvious format staples like Top and Sol Ring, just the ones that have specific interactions with the current list.
Artifacts:
- Cauldron of Souls: As with a number of cards on this list, there aren't enough actual creature spells to make this worthwhile.
Creatures:
- Auramancer: Not sure how much recursion I need, but this is almost a second Eternal Witness.
- Faith Healer: Another card that probably needs to be tested to see if it actually needs to be here or not.
- Mikaeus, the Lunarch: White Mike will probably find a home here soon. He adds a lot of extra counters for Ghave, and synergizes very well with Ghave.
- Mikaeus, the Unhallowed: Black Mike on the other hand doesn't really do much. There just aren't enough actual creature spells in the deck right now to take advantage of his triggers.
- Sigil Captain: Tons of extra value for Ghave to play with...just not enough room right now. Probably in as soon as I find something else that isn't performing.
Enchantments:
- Animate Dead: Lack of flash makes it worse than Necromancy.
- Asceticism: The majority of my creatures are replaceable tokens, so it doesn't bother me much if they get targeted or killed.
- Black Market: This is a pet card of mine, but people have learned to blow it up immediately.
- Crackdown: Another neat old card that needs to be tested...if I ever find one.
- Dark Prophecy: I want this to be good, but the trigger isn't optional and I can foresee games where the extreme over-use of this card would either drain away all my life or get me decked. Unlike Bob, it's a little too difficult to turn this off in crunch time.
- Dark Tutelage: Another card that will depend on how much life-gain I have and how much extra draw power I need.
- Death's Presence: I like the added value that this card presents, but the cost is pretty steep and it doesn't do anything by itself. Probably in as soon as I can find a spot to test it.
- Debtors' Knell: Too slow and clunky for my liking.
- Humility: If I'm ever feeling really mean.
- Infernal Genesis: Another neat old card that makes a lot of fodder. The problem here is the self-milling. My graveyard is already the target of too many Relics and Crypts and Bogs.
- Leyline of the Void: As with most other formats that this is legal to play, if grave-hate becomes more of a need, this will find a spot.
- Luminarch Ascension: See Humility.
- Night Soil: See Leyline of the Void.
- Opalescence: The only time that this ever gets played is for massive combo potential, and I'm not all about that.
- Pestilence: Another card that needs to be tested. It has some neat combo applications with other cards that pump my whole team, but it could also just wipe out the whole team.
- Rite of Passage: Another card that could add a lot of value to tokens and combos with Ghave. Unlike its counterpart Vigor, it allows the damage to resolve first. Might be a neat combo with Pestilence.
- Tombstone Stairwell: A neat old card that can make a lot of extra fodder, but I'm not a fan of group hug cards or cumulative upkeep effects.
- True Conviction: Very expensive, and hard to justify giving such a strong buff to a bunch of wimpy tokens.
Update: created some additional information in the OP.
Also got to play a game with this deck over the weekend and I ended up killing the whole table. Started out with Blind Obedience and Sylvan Library, then managed to drop Mirari's Wake into Ghave. The game ended when I activated both Vizkopa Guildmage and Vault of the Archangel before swinging in with about 30 power of tokens and doming the whole table for 24 damage each.
Deck looks really solid. Couple of things to think about:
Are the 3 (well, I guess more with some of your enchants like Pernicious Deed and Planar Collapse) board wipes enough? I would just have a hard time not putting in good old fashioned Wrath of God and Damnation, especially since neither would hurt you most of the time.
Does your graveyard get targeted a lot? When I see enchantment based decks I'm immediately on the look out for Replenish and such. Dunno if a True Believer or Ivory Mask might be helpful.
This is probably pretty greedy, but Avacyn and Sigarda are both very helpful at making sure that you can keep your enchants in play.
Honestly the only thing that could really hurt is the random Merciless Eviction blow out, and there's not a whole ton you can do about that. Looks like a blast to play. Neat deck.
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Deck looks really solid. Couple of things to think about:
Are the 3 (well, I guess more with some of your enchants like Pernicious Deed and Planar Collapse) board wipes enough? I would just have a hard time not putting in good old fashioned Wrath of God and Damnation, especially since neither would hurt you most of the time.
Does your graveyard get targeted a lot? When I see enchantment based decks I'm immediately on the look out for Replenish and such. Dunno if a True Believer or Ivory Mask might be helpful.
This is probably pretty greedy, but Avacyn and Sigarda are both very helpful at making sure that you can keep your enchants in play.
Honestly the only thing that could really hurt is the random Merciless Eviction blow out, and there's not a whole ton you can do about that. Looks like a blast to play. Neat deck.
Excellent comments, thank you for posting them. Definitely got me thinking about some things.
- I count a total of six wrath effects in the list, including the two enchantments. You're probably correct that it could support a few more given how the deck will likely play out.
- My graveyard definitely gets a lot of targets. I have a long history of using the graveyard as a resource, so much so that it scares me to play cards like Deadbridge Chant because of how much it invites others to hit my yard. Ivory Mask would probably be a good idea, or better yet Leyline of Sanctity.
- It's too early to tell if Avacyn is really necessary to protect all these enchantments. Sigarda is definitely not necessary...if there is enchantment removal, it's probably not of the "sacrifice" variety.
- The most common way I can think of to get totally blown out would be something like Austere Command or Oblivion Stone. Not many people play Pernicious Deed or Merciless Eviction or Fracturing Gust.
Yeah, however the good thing about getting Oblivion Stoned is that your stuff goes to your yard so that you can get it back.
Was looking up stuff to get enchantments back from your graveyard, found Holistic Wisdom. I've seen people use this in the past. I'm not a huge fan of exiling stuff from your hand, but it's repeatable at least.
And then there's Rofellos's Gift. Super janky, didn't even know it existed. Still, style points!
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Update: made a bunch of changes to this deck after playing quite a few rounds with it, including several at SCG Milwaukee.
This deck is awesome to play as long as it doesn't get played too frequently. Early on, it is quite vulnerable as it doesn't generate a quick board presence and a lot of the cards gain incremental value over time. For example, every turn I get more cards with Phyrexian Arena, every spell I cast triggers more extort with Blind Obedience, every time I do things with Primeval Bounty on the table adds additional value, etc. However, if it gets played too often, it will likely generate a large target and get killed off too quickly.
Most of the cards I cut were just too slow and clunky, and this deck is already pretty slow and clunky in nature. For example, I cut a lot of the colorless lands with abilities that required spending a bunch of mana because I found myself tapping out a lot or wanting to hold up Ghave activations. More specifically, I cut Deadbridge Chant because it was basically a six-mana Phyrexian Arena with the downside of being shut off by a grave hater, and I wasn't able to use the yard as much as I would like. Requiem Angel was also too slow, and I never found myself wanting to tutor up Planar Collapse, despite the numerous tutors that I drew. Crystal Chimes got cut because my local shop didn't have one.
Been awhile since I built anything new in EDH, so I started looking for new ideas.
- At first, I wanted to use some of the cool new enchantments that were recently created, like Deadbridge Chant and Primeval Bounty (although I haven't actually picked up the latter yet).
- I also knew that enchantments in general are extremely hard to remove in this format, and that I don't currently have a deck based around enchantments as a theme.
- After pulling some more enchantments out of my stock (Mana Reflection, Mirari's Wake, Doubling Season, etc), I realized that BGW was the color combination I wanted, and that Ghave would be perfect in conjunction with things like the Doubling Season I have yet to cast in EDH.
And thus, my next deck was born:
5 Ghave, Guru of Spores
Creatures (10):
2 Argothian Enchantress
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Eternal Witness
3 Mesa Enchantress
3 Verduran Enchantress
3 Vizkopa Guildmage
4 Academy Rector
4 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
6 Sun Titan
8 Woodfall Primus
Artifacts (3):
1 Skullclamp
3 Chromatic Lantern
3 Cloud Key
Enchantments (34):
1 Land Tax
2 Bitterblossom
2 Blind Obedience
2 Greater Auramancy
2 Necrogenesis
2 Seal of Cleansing
2 Sterling Grove
2 Sylvan Library
3 Attrition
3 Aura of Silence
3 Aura Shards
3 Awakening Zone
3 Enchantress's Presence
3 Karmic Justice
3 Necromancy
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Seal of Doom
4 Abundance
4 Grave Pact
4 Parallax Wave
4 Parallel Lives
5 Cathars' Crusade
5 Doubling Season
5 Mirari's Wake
5 Perilous Forays
5 Privileged Position
5 Sanguine Bond
5 Sphere of Safety
6 Mana Reflection
6 Martyr's Bond
6 Primeval Bounty
Instants (2):
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
Sorceries (9):
2 Demonic Tutor
3 Idyllic Tutor
4 Replenish
5 Creeping Renaissance
5 Hallowed Burial
6 Austere Command
6 Merciless Eviction
6 Open the Vaults
6 Terminus
Lands (38):
4 Plains
3 Swamp
4 Forest
0 Fetid Heath
0 Twilight Mire
0 Wooded Bastion
0 Gavony Township
0 Isolated Chapel
0 Woodland Cemetery
0 Sunpetal Grove
0 Orzhov Guildgate
0 Golgari Guildgate
0 Selesnya Guildgate
0 Orzhov Basilica
0 Golgari Rot Farm
0 Selesnya Sanctuary
0 Caves of Koilos
0 Llanowar Wastes
0 Brushland
0 Bojuka Bog
0 Command Tower
0 Murmuring Bosk
0 Phyrexian Tower
0 Reflecting Pool
0 Serra's Sanctum
0 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
0 Yavimaya Hollow
Creatures:
- Vizkopa Guildmage: I've been wanting to play this card for its second ability since it was spoiled. Recently, I activated that ability along with Vault of the Archangel and a bunch of tokens. The end result was the entire table taking 24 damage. Overall, I think there's enough life-gain here to support this card.
- Woodfall Primus: It's a little out of place with the enchantment/token theme, but the reset synergy with Ghave is too good to pass up.
Artifacts:
- Chromatic Lantern: I chose this over more popular choices like Sol Ring and Coalition Relic because it does such a great job of fixing all my colors.
- Cloud Key: Effects like this that lower the cost of other spells seem to be subtle enough for my play group not to directly blow them up the way that something like Gilded Lotus or Caged Sun might get removed.
Sorceries:
- Hallowed Burial, Mercliess Eviction, Terminus: The majority of my team is likely going to be tokens, so it doesn't bother me if they get destroyed or tucked or exiled like most normal decks.
Enchantments:
- Attrition: I used to run this card in a lot of other decks, but eventually cut it due to the "non-black" part. Here's hoping that the abundance of available fodder will make up for that limitation.
- Necromancy: Not sure if there are enough actual creature spells to justify this, but it's 3 mana (Sun Titan) and it has flash, so there's potential.
- Pernicious Deed: This card gives me pause because it can wreck a lot of my otherwise hard to kill enchantments, but its cost and effectiveness seems worth it on paper.
- Sphere of Safety: My playgroup likes attacking, especially if one doesn't have blockers available. Ordinarily I'd just use Ghostly Prison, but this seems like it will add up to more of a deterrant.
2. Rite of Passage
3. Mikaeus, the Lunarch
4. Faith Healer
5. Death's Presence
Artifacts:
- Cauldron of Souls: As with a number of cards on this list, there aren't enough actual creature spells to make this worthwhile.
Creatures:
- Auramancer: Not sure how much recursion I need, but this is almost a second Eternal Witness.
- Faith Healer: Another card that probably needs to be tested to see if it actually needs to be here or not.
- Mikaeus, the Lunarch: White Mike will probably find a home here soon. He adds a lot of extra counters for Ghave, and synergizes very well with Ghave.
- Mikaeus, the Unhallowed: Black Mike on the other hand doesn't really do much. There just aren't enough actual creature spells in the deck right now to take advantage of his triggers.
- Sigil Captain: Tons of extra value for Ghave to play with...just not enough room right now. Probably in as soon as I find something else that isn't performing.
Enchantments:
- Animate Dead: Lack of flash makes it worse than Necromancy.
- Asceticism: The majority of my creatures are replaceable tokens, so it doesn't bother me much if they get targeted or killed.
- Black Market: This is a pet card of mine, but people have learned to blow it up immediately.
- Crackdown: Another neat old card that needs to be tested...if I ever find one.
- Dark Prophecy: I want this to be good, but the trigger isn't optional and I can foresee games where the extreme over-use of this card would either drain away all my life or get me decked. Unlike Bob, it's a little too difficult to turn this off in crunch time.
- Dark Tutelage: Another card that will depend on how much life-gain I have and how much extra draw power I need.
- Death's Presence: I like the added value that this card presents, but the cost is pretty steep and it doesn't do anything by itself. Probably in as soon as I can find a spot to test it.
- Debtors' Knell: Too slow and clunky for my liking.
- Humility: If I'm ever feeling really mean.
- Infernal Genesis: Another neat old card that makes a lot of fodder. The problem here is the self-milling. My graveyard is already the target of too many Relics and Crypts and Bogs.
- Leyline of the Void: As with most other formats that this is legal to play, if grave-hate becomes more of a need, this will find a spot.
- Luminarch Ascension: See Humility.
- Night Soil: See Leyline of the Void.
- Opalescence: The only time that this ever gets played is for massive combo potential, and I'm not all about that.
- Pestilence: Another card that needs to be tested. It has some neat combo applications with other cards that pump my whole team, but it could also just wipe out the whole team.
- Rite of Passage: Another card that could add a lot of value to tokens and combos with Ghave. Unlike its counterpart Vigor, it allows the damage to resolve first. Might be a neat combo with Pestilence.
- Tombstone Stairwell: A neat old card that can make a lot of extra fodder, but I'm not a fan of group hug cards or cumulative upkeep effects.
- True Conviction: Very expensive, and hard to justify giving such a strong buff to a bunch of wimpy tokens.
- Finally got around to writing the change log and other sections.
04/09/14:
- Added Land Tax, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Trostani, Selesnya's Voice, Sanguine Bond, Erebos, God of the Dead, Soul Snare, Archangel of Thune,Creeping Renaissance, more basics.
- Removed Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, Crystal Chimes, Ajani's Chosen, Angelic Renewal, Planar Collapse, Deadbridge Chant, Requiem Angel, Kor Haven, Krosan Verge, Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree, Grim Backwoods,
As always, comments and critiques are welcome.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Also got to play a game with this deck over the weekend and I ended up killing the whole table. Started out with Blind Obedience and Sylvan Library, then managed to drop Mirari's Wake into Ghave. The game ended when I activated both Vizkopa Guildmage and Vault of the Archangel before swinging in with about 30 power of tokens and doming the whole table for 24 damage each.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Are the 3 (well, I guess more with some of your enchants like Pernicious Deed and Planar Collapse) board wipes enough? I would just have a hard time not putting in good old fashioned Wrath of God and Damnation, especially since neither would hurt you most of the time.
Does your graveyard get targeted a lot? When I see enchantment based decks I'm immediately on the look out for Replenish and such. Dunno if a True Believer or Ivory Mask might be helpful.
This is probably pretty greedy, but Avacyn and Sigarda are both very helpful at making sure that you can keep your enchants in play.
Honestly the only thing that could really hurt is the random Merciless Eviction blow out, and there's not a whole ton you can do about that. Looks like a blast to play. Neat deck.
Most recently looking at Morinfen!
Excellent comments, thank you for posting them. Definitely got me thinking about some things.
- I count a total of six wrath effects in the list, including the two enchantments. You're probably correct that it could support a few more given how the deck will likely play out.
- My graveyard definitely gets a lot of targets. I have a long history of using the graveyard as a resource, so much so that it scares me to play cards like Deadbridge Chant because of how much it invites others to hit my yard. Ivory Mask would probably be a good idea, or better yet Leyline of Sanctity.
- It's too early to tell if Avacyn is really necessary to protect all these enchantments. Sigarda is definitely not necessary...if there is enchantment removal, it's probably not of the "sacrifice" variety.
- The most common way I can think of to get totally blown out would be something like Austere Command or Oblivion Stone. Not many people play Pernicious Deed or Merciless Eviction or Fracturing Gust.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Yeah, however the good thing about getting Oblivion Stoned is that your stuff goes to your yard so that you can get it back.
Was looking up stuff to get enchantments back from your graveyard, found Holistic Wisdom. I've seen people use this in the past. I'm not a huge fan of exiling stuff from your hand, but it's repeatable at least.
And then there's Rofellos's Gift. Super janky, didn't even know it existed. Still, style points!
Most recently looking at Morinfen!
@Rofellos's Gift: Not a bad idea...need to check my green card count to see how viable it is, but I like it!
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
This deck is awesome to play as long as it doesn't get played too frequently. Early on, it is quite vulnerable as it doesn't generate a quick board presence and a lot of the cards gain incremental value over time. For example, every turn I get more cards with Phyrexian Arena, every spell I cast triggers more extort with Blind Obedience, every time I do things with Primeval Bounty on the table adds additional value, etc. However, if it gets played too often, it will likely generate a large target and get killed off too quickly.
Most of the cards I cut were just too slow and clunky, and this deck is already pretty slow and clunky in nature. For example, I cut a lot of the colorless lands with abilities that required spending a bunch of mana because I found myself tapping out a lot or wanting to hold up Ghave activations. More specifically, I cut Deadbridge Chant because it was basically a six-mana Phyrexian Arena with the downside of being shut off by a grave hater, and I wasn't able to use the yard as much as I would like. Requiem Angel was also too slow, and I never found myself wanting to tutor up Planar Collapse, despite the numerous tutors that I drew. Crystal Chimes got cut because my local shop didn't have one.
Some early all-stars for this deck have been Karmic Justice, Primeval Bounty, and Blind Obedience. Unfortunately, I have not yet had the pleasure of casting such spells as Sun Titan, Cathars' Crusade, or Mana Reflection. I got Doubling Season out once, but it got killed before I could use it.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani