Played this deck for another week, 10 games. I have a detailed recording of my matches, cause I want to start really breaking down the usefulness of certain cards. Of the 10 games I played, here are some stats:
In 5 of 10 games, I attempted to reanimate Sylvan Primordial by turn 3.
In 2 of 10 games, I attempted to Jin-Gitaxias on turn 2.
In 1 of 10 games, I attempted to Necrotic Ooze combo by turn 3.
I won 6 of 10 games in a metagame of UGx ramp (Jenara, Maelstrom Wanderer, Azusa) and Sharuum.
Of the 6 games I won, all 6 of them were via Necrotic Ooze combo.
By most standards, this is great. I don't expect to win 100% of my games. In fact, if I am, then that means the decks in my metagame need tuning, not my Mimeoplasm list. But I digress. There are two points I'd like to talk about, and the first is the fundamentals of the deck. Once those are identified, we can better tune this list for maximum efficiency.
1. This is a Necrotic Ooze combo deck
Somewhere along the line, I got caught up in the fact that I could put Sylvan Primordial into play on turn 2-3 consistently. That's a pretty envious feat for any EDH list, and this one is probably the best to do it. All of my games begun that way - not only was it the perfect disruption turn, it also put me up to 6+ mana, allowing me to ease my way into the Necrotic Ooze combo. But then I started running an excess amount of clones, cut back on reanimation cause I'd rather use Natural Order, and I lost sight of where the deck was supposed to be going. A lot of times, I sit with in my hand and say to myself: oh man, I can't wait till I tutor for Natural Order and cast it on my Llanowar Elves so that I can Stolen Identity it for massive ramp. But for what? And for why? I realized this as I attempted this game after game, and started to get shut down. And even after I had made it happen, it doesn't always win me the game. That's the hard lesson I learned. I mean, I'm not denying the power of Sylvan Primordial's interaction with Stolen Identity, it's just that it's a lucky play, and I'm trying to crack down on the slots right now. What is the reasoning behind this, MCR? Well, here's the scenario - if I managed to pull off Sylvan Primordial, I still need to end the game. If the Sylvan Primordial happens late enough, there's no guarantee that cloning it will even end the game. In fact, most of the time when it fails, I just automatically shift gears to Necrotic Ooze combo. There's no point trying to waste time playing relay race when I can just sprint for the goal. And so, this is my justification for cutting Stolen Identity, who I think is purely a win-more card with many risks associated with it. Progenitor Mimic stays because, frankly, it is a green creature. That means it can be abused with the same tools that Sylvan Primordial is, including but not limited to reanimation, Flash, Natural Order, and survival shenanigans. And yes, I have used it for that purpose many times. I would also never use a blue tutor to find Stolen Identity, because finding Buried Alive is just the more optimal play.
And as such, more emphasis should be put on making the Ooze combo successful, ie cheap reanimation spells and looting that digs, which moves me to my next point.
2. Drawing lots of cards =/= good
So an entire day of testing shows that many of these excessively costed draw spells are not exactly what the deck wants. They're only good in one scenario: after I Sylvan Primordial. But even then, they're extremely awkward, since some ask you to discard what's in your hand, sometimes after, or in Memory Jar's case, a total crapshoot. Oftentimes, I'm still in search of a discard outlet after all of this has happened. So what do we do about it? The # of cards isn't as important as being able to choose which ones enter your graveyard. In the end, I'm a pseudo-ramp, combo deck, and I care more about function than volume. In this case, while Careful Study, Thirst for Knowledge, and Careful Consideration dig considerably less deeper than Windfall, Whispering Madness, and Memory Jar, they are much more controlled, and much more comfortable to use. This deck isn't loaded with threats or power plays - it's filled with a bunch of enablers that combo into broken plays, therefore drawing the excessive amount of cards is both wasteful and at the same time harmful to the Necrotic Ooze combo. But why these particular spells? First off, they're the most cost-efficient spells in their class. Secondly, they can be cast at instant speed, which makes a big difference in a GY-based deck. Third, they dig the deepest for their costs. Fourth, they still enable reanimation plays and fuel Mimeoplasm fodder. Just playing a few games with them made everything feel much smoother. I give up SOME raw power, but that raw power concedes to the fact that I basically need a huge string of events to happen. Ramp -> Cheat Sylvan into Play -> tap out to play over-costed draw spell -> hope to find combo pieces and hope not to draw them. I also upped the number of tutors and reanimation to compensate, as well as included Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger to give myself another premium early target to reanimate. ***The primary goal of Sylvan Primordial was to ramp, but the disruption it provides is what makes it a top-tier play. I feel that Vorinclex accomplishes the same goals, albeit a weaker version. He's a bit easier to protect, and ramps up mana much quicker than Sylvan, so I think he deserves a slot.
But let's not just sign off on these cards. There are a few other options, such as Moonlight Bargain, Forbidden Alchemy, and, technically still, Necrologia. I'm still not sure what configuration of these cards I want to run, but I want to play 4-5 of them. What are your guys' opinions?
I haven't updated the OP yet, because I want to make sure I'm not crazy haha.
PS - Undead Gladiator is a test. He's slow, but he serves many, many purposes in this deck, including but not limited to: a discard outlet, Mimeo fodder, sacrifice fodder, late game cycling. If only I could activate his ability outside of the upkeep. Other cards I'm considering are Dimir Infiltrator, Shred Memory, Perplex, and Drift of Phantasms, though they are all very slow. The x-mute guys help with Mimeo fodder.
Never liked Stolen Identity. Ties up way too much mana.
Everytime I've been hit with Thoughtseize it has hurt a lot. However the other 2-3 guys not hit by it are up cards on the caster and target.
Lotus Cobra doesn't work well without heavy lands and a way to drop more than 1 per turn consistently
Preordain is decent, but unspectacular.
Those draw options are hit and miss. Windfall is the best of the bunch. Replacements look rather poor. Necropotence's absence I suppose is due to the mana requirements, though I would definately play it. And another questionable omission in my eyes is Mystic Remora. In a developed meta Mystic Remora is the king of draw, second only to Necropotence + Reliquary Tower. You've got enough acceleration to keep up with the upkeep, so I'd highly recommend it. Vorinclex doesn't helps your gameplan much. You're better off slamming down Sylvan Primordial/copies. Swan Song is fantastic
Never liked Stolen Identity. Ties up way too much mana.
Everytime I've been hit with Thoughtseize it has hurt a lot. However the other 2-3 guys not hit by it are up cards on the caster and target.
Lotus Cobra doesn't work well without heavy lands and a way to drop more than 1 per turn consistently
Preordain is decent, but unspectacular.
Those draw options are hit and miss. Windfall is the best of the bunch. Replacements look rather poor. Necropotence's absence I suppose is due to the mana requirements, though I would definately play it. And another questionable omission in my eyes is Mystic Remora. In a developed meta Mystic Remora is the king of draw, second only to Necropotence + Reliquary Tower. You've got enough acceleration to keep up with the upkeep, so I'd highly recommend it. Vorinclex doesn't helps your gameplan much. You're better off slamming down Sylvan Primordial/copies. Swan Song is fantastic
@Clones
Yep. Stolen is expensive, and it'll go a long way...if it resolves. You won't have many friends after you Sylvan, that's for sure. I would rather not run an excessive amount of clones, since I don't really care to copy anything that's not a Sylvan Primordial. I think that 2 is fine, given the # of tutors I have. Maybe 3. Sakashima the Imposter might be the next best one, even though people would argue Phantasmal Image.
@Necropotence
This deck wins by discarding things into the yard, a good part of the time through Survival of the Fittest. Necro's anti-discard clause makes it quite undesirable in here.
@New Inclusions
I agree with most of your points. Thanks for bringing them up. I think I'm going to try these changes in the coming weeks:
I'm keeping Undead Gladiator and Careful Study for now, although I'm not too happy with either. They're a bit more flexible than Thirst for Knowledge or Careful Consideration though. I decided to add Time Spiral back in because there are games that go long and I don't really have a "man plan", so shuffling my yard back into my library is relevant. Considering trying out some "useful" discard outlets, like Turbulent Dreams again, but not 100% sold on that idea either.
What do you think of Oath of druids if you don't have many dorks or overall small creatures?
Private Mod Note
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
What do you think of Oath of druids if you don't have many dorks or overall small creatures?
Oath of Druids asks you to change this deck entirely again. This version plays dorks in order to abuse Natural Order and Survival of the Fittest, so I would have to say no. That being the case, there are Oath versions of BUG sitting around. I would check out Gaka's Damia Oath 1v1 thread for ideas.
After exploring with several of the new generals, none of them really hit the spot. I'm going back to my original project - optimizing Mimeoplasm. With recent bannings, this deck too a hit, but has also reinvigorated my interest in looking at the strengths of the archetype without the boring Natural Order / Flash default plays.
What Makes This Deck Good?
Essentially, you can run the Damia shell, but with less generic good cards (ie. Time Walks) and more synergistic pieces that feed into a larger machine. The upside is quicker speed and access to one of the most broken plays in EDH: turn 2 Jin. The drawback is a hit in consistency, as the deck's combo has some quirks to it that lead to odd card choices instead of raw power.
Outside of these cards, there's plenty of room for all the BUG goodstuff. Powerful card draw, draw filtering, ramp, countermagic, removal, and tutors. Everything you need to add an efficient shell of both defense and consistency.
With the deck's strengths in mind, I've overhauled the list to focus on them in the absence of Sylvan Primordial. Remember that this is a Necrotic Ooze combo deck at heart, and a turn 2 Jin/Sphinx/Clex second.
Played this deck for another week, 10 games. I have a detailed recording of my matches, cause I want to start really breaking down the usefulness of certain cards. Of the 10 games I played, here are some stats:
By most standards, this is great. I don't expect to win 100% of my games. In fact, if I am, then that means the decks in my metagame need tuning, not my Mimeoplasm list. But I digress. There are two points I'd like to talk about, and the first is the fundamentals of the deck. Once those are identified, we can better tune this list for maximum efficiency.
Stolen Identity -> Diabolic Intent
Thoughtseize -> Exhume
Lotus Cobra -> Swan Song
Preordain -> Undead Gladiator
Windfall -> Careful Study
Whispering Madness -> Thirst for Knowledge / Moonlight Bargain
Memory Jar -> Careful Consideration
Necrologia -> Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1. This is a Necrotic Ooze combo deck
Somewhere along the line, I got caught up in the fact that I could put Sylvan Primordial into play on turn 2-3 consistently. That's a pretty envious feat for any EDH list, and this one is probably the best to do it. All of my games begun that way - not only was it the perfect disruption turn, it also put me up to 6+ mana, allowing me to ease my way into the Necrotic Ooze combo. But then I started running an excess amount of clones, cut back on reanimation cause I'd rather use Natural Order, and I lost sight of where the deck was supposed to be going. A lot of times, I sit with in my hand and say to myself: oh man, I can't wait till I tutor for Natural Order and cast it on my Llanowar Elves so that I can Stolen Identity it for massive ramp. But for what? And for why? I realized this as I attempted this game after game, and started to get shut down. And even after I had made it happen, it doesn't always win me the game. That's the hard lesson I learned. I mean, I'm not denying the power of Sylvan Primordial's interaction with Stolen Identity, it's just that it's a lucky play, and I'm trying to crack down on the slots right now. What is the reasoning behind this, MCR? Well, here's the scenario - if I managed to pull off Sylvan Primordial, I still need to end the game. If the Sylvan Primordial happens late enough, there's no guarantee that cloning it will even end the game. In fact, most of the time when it fails, I just automatically shift gears to Necrotic Ooze combo. There's no point trying to waste time playing relay race when I can just sprint for the goal. And so, this is my justification for cutting Stolen Identity, who I think is purely a win-more card with many risks associated with it. Progenitor Mimic stays because, frankly, it is a green creature. That means it can be abused with the same tools that Sylvan Primordial is, including but not limited to reanimation, Flash, Natural Order, and survival shenanigans. And yes, I have used it for that purpose many times. I would also never use a blue tutor to find Stolen Identity, because finding Buried Alive is just the more optimal play.
And as such, more emphasis should be put on making the Ooze combo successful, ie cheap reanimation spells and looting that digs, which moves me to my next point.
2. Drawing lots of cards =/= good
So an entire day of testing shows that many of these excessively costed draw spells are not exactly what the deck wants. They're only good in one scenario: after I Sylvan Primordial. But even then, they're extremely awkward, since some ask you to discard what's in your hand, sometimes after, or in Memory Jar's case, a total crapshoot. Oftentimes, I'm still in search of a discard outlet after all of this has happened. So what do we do about it? The # of cards isn't as important as being able to choose which ones enter your graveyard. In the end, I'm a pseudo-ramp, combo deck, and I care more about function than volume. In this case, while Careful Study, Thirst for Knowledge, and Careful Consideration dig considerably less deeper than Windfall, Whispering Madness, and Memory Jar, they are much more controlled, and much more comfortable to use. This deck isn't loaded with threats or power plays - it's filled with a bunch of enablers that combo into broken plays, therefore drawing the excessive amount of cards is both wasteful and at the same time harmful to the Necrotic Ooze combo. But why these particular spells? First off, they're the most cost-efficient spells in their class. Secondly, they can be cast at instant speed, which makes a big difference in a GY-based deck. Third, they dig the deepest for their costs. Fourth, they still enable reanimation plays and fuel Mimeoplasm fodder. Just playing a few games with them made everything feel much smoother. I give up SOME raw power, but that raw power concedes to the fact that I basically need a huge string of events to happen. Ramp -> Cheat Sylvan into Play -> tap out to play over-costed draw spell -> hope to find combo pieces and hope not to draw them. I also upped the number of tutors and reanimation to compensate, as well as included Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger to give myself another premium early target to reanimate. ***The primary goal of Sylvan Primordial was to ramp, but the disruption it provides is what makes it a top-tier play. I feel that Vorinclex accomplishes the same goals, albeit a weaker version. He's a bit easier to protect, and ramps up mana much quicker than Sylvan, so I think he deserves a slot.
But let's not just sign off on these cards. There are a few other options, such as Moonlight Bargain, Forbidden Alchemy, and, technically still, Necrologia. I'm still not sure what configuration of these cards I want to run, but I want to play 4-5 of them. What are your guys' opinions?
I haven't updated the OP yet, because I want to make sure I'm not crazy haha.
PS - Undead Gladiator is a test. He's slow, but he serves many, many purposes in this deck, including but not limited to: a discard outlet, Mimeo fodder, sacrifice fodder, late game cycling. If only I could activate his ability outside of the upkeep. Other cards I'm considering are Dimir Infiltrator, Shred Memory, Perplex, and Drift of Phantasms, though they are all very slow. The x-mute guys help with Mimeo fodder.
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
Everytime I've been hit with Thoughtseize it has hurt a lot. However the other 2-3 guys not hit by it are up cards on the caster and target.
Lotus Cobra doesn't work well without heavy lands and a way to drop more than 1 per turn consistently
Preordain is decent, but unspectacular.
Those draw options are hit and miss. Windfall is the best of the bunch. Replacements look rather poor. Necropotence's absence I suppose is due to the mana requirements, though I would definately play it. And another questionable omission in my eyes is Mystic Remora. In a developed meta Mystic Remora is the king of draw, second only to Necropotence + Reliquary Tower. You've got enough acceleration to keep up with the upkeep, so I'd highly recommend it. Vorinclex doesn't helps your gameplan much. You're better off slamming down Sylvan Primordial/copies. Swan Song is fantastic
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
@Clones
Yep. Stolen is expensive, and it'll go a long way...if it resolves. You won't have many friends after you Sylvan, that's for sure. I would rather not run an excessive amount of clones, since I don't really care to copy anything that's not a Sylvan Primordial. I think that 2 is fine, given the # of tutors I have. Maybe 3. Sakashima the Imposter might be the next best one, even though people would argue Phantasmal Image.
@Necropotence
This deck wins by discarding things into the yard, a good part of the time through Survival of the Fittest. Necro's anti-discard clause makes it quite undesirable in here.
@New Inclusions
I agree with most of your points. Thanks for bringing them up. I think I'm going to try these changes in the coming weeks:
Thirst for Knowledge -> Windfall (love/hate here)
Careful Consideration -> Mystic Remora
Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger -> Time Spiral
I'm keeping Undead Gladiator and Careful Study for now, although I'm not too happy with either. They're a bit more flexible than Thirst for Knowledge or Careful Consideration though. I decided to add Time Spiral back in because there are games that go long and I don't really have a "man plan", so shuffling my yard back into my library is relevant. Considering trying out some "useful" discard outlets, like Turbulent Dreams again, but not 100% sold on that idea either.
EDIT: What do people think of Jace's Archivist?
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Oath of Druids asks you to change this deck entirely again. This version plays dorks in order to abuse Natural Order and Survival of the Fittest, so I would have to say no. That being the case, there are Oath versions of BUG sitting around. I would check out Gaka's Damia Oath 1v1 thread for ideas.
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
After exploring with several of the new generals, none of them really hit the spot. I'm going back to my original project - optimizing Mimeoplasm. With recent bannings, this deck too a hit, but has also reinvigorated my interest in looking at the strengths of the archetype without the boring Natural Order / Flash default plays.
What Makes This Deck Good?
Essentially, you can run the Damia shell, but with less generic good cards (ie. Time Walks) and more synergistic pieces that feed into a larger machine. The upside is quicker speed and access to one of the most broken plays in EDH: turn 2 Jin. The drawback is a hit in consistency, as the deck's combo has some quirks to it that lead to odd card choices instead of raw power.
Outside of these cards, there's plenty of room for all the BUG goodstuff. Powerful card draw, draw filtering, ramp, countermagic, removal, and tutors. Everything you need to add an efficient shell of both defense and consistency.
With the deck's strengths in mind, I've overhauled the list to focus on them in the absence of Sylvan Primordial. Remember that this is a Necrotic Ooze combo deck at heart, and a turn 2 Jin/Sphinx/Clex second.
1 The Mimeoplasm
//Combo
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
//Value Reanimator Targets
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
//Cheat
1 Reanimate
1 Exhume
1 Life // Death
1 Animate Dead
1 Dance of the Dead
1 Apprentice Necromancer
1 Necromancy
1 Doomed Necromancer
//Into the Bin
1 Entomb
1 Thoughtseize
1 Careful Study
1 Hapless Researcher
1 Drowned Rusalka
1 Merfolk Looter
1 Thought Courier
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Intuition
1 Buried Alive
//Tutors
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
1 Grim Tutor
//Card Quality
1 Brainstorm
1 Preordain
1 Ponder
1 Impulse
1 See Beyond
1 Sylvan Library
1 Recurring Insight
1 Time Spiral
1 Nature's Claim
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Pact of Negation
1 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
1 Swan Song
1 Mana Drain
1 Counterspell
//Ramp
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Elves of Deep Shadow
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Dark Ritual
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
//Lands
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Command Tower
1 City of Brass
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 River of Tears
1 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Underground River
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Flooded Grove
1 Twilight Mire
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Flooded Strand
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
1 Island
I will be updating the OP with a much more detailed post. The current information is far outdated.
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
Tooth and Nail?