It's been a while since I've posted here. I don't play much Magic anymore, but I still spend time playing multiplayer EDH and making decklists for fun.
[B][SIZE=3]History & Evolution[/SIZE][/B]
This list started as Grixis with Sedris, the Traitor King at the helm. This deck was originally based around heavy looting and single-target reanimator, followed by a late game mass unearthing of Palinchron-type cards for a one-sided Living Death. I then realized that instead of trying to mimic Living Death, I should just revamp the list to play more Living Death effects. As I shifted the direction of the deck, I realized how useless and expensive of a commander Sedris was, and how the only way to break parity with my plethora of looting effects was to use Squee, Goblin Nabob. After revising the list a hundred times over, I finally confirmed that Grixis would not satisfy my goals nor reach the power level I desired. I then consulted with a few friends for ideas and eventually drafted a The Mimeoplasm list that managed to both take advantage of early reanimation and still have easy access to game-ending combos. Green offers stronger reanimation targets and gives the deck Survival of the Fittest as well as creature tutors, leading to more lines of broken play. While I'm quite happy with the list in its current incarnation, it never hurts to get more heads in on the matter!
[B][SIZE=3]Noteworthy[/SIZE][/B]
This list is intended to hang with higher-powered decks. I don't expect it to consistently win vs Hermit or Storm, but at least be able to duke with the upper tier of generals. There have been some arguments about turning the list into dedicated Hermit, but why do that when it'd be strictly inferior to 5C Scion? I did mock up that list, and no matter what, it just wasn't as consistent. From another perspective, a good thing about the deck is that it's a flexible one, meaning you can always shoot to play a reanimator "fair" game and avoid going infinite in different metas. I've opted also not to include the "cute" Mimeoplasm targets, such as Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon. I'd much rather win in a sweeping fashion and not leave any outs for my opponents.
Look, it's a funny deck name because it's an ooze doing an ooze combo. Har har.
[URL="http://deckstats.net/decks/1909/24612-the-mimeoplasm?saved=1&lng=en"]Click for Visual Spoiler / Mana Breakdown[/URL]
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[spoiler]
[B][SIZE=3]Deck Goals & Game Plan[/SIZE][/B]
[numlist][*]Set up looting and engines to put reanimation targets into the graveyard.
[*]Use high-threat reanimation targets to inhibit opponents.
[*]End the game via combo. (could also be priority 1; in a vacuum, can win on turn 3-5 consistently)[/numlist]
[B][SIZE=3]Enablers & Combos[/SIZE][/B]
[spoiler][LIST]
[*][B]Buried Alive / Intuition / Survival of the Fittest[/b]
These all help set up the combos below - if you have one of these and a reanimation spell (or the general), you have the win in your grasp. Victimize is specifically in the deck for Mike/Trike. Note also that Living Death can also be used for the same purpose and not just a value play.
[*][B]Necrotic Ooze in play w/ Phyrexian Devourer + Triskelion in yard[/B]
The deck's primary "I win" combo. For those of you that don't know how it works, dump Devourer and Trike in the yard, then either cast Ooze or reanimate it. Ooze gains Devourer's ability, allowing you to exile the top card of your library till you have enough counters to use Trike's ping ability to kill the table. There are enough large creatures in the deck to fuel Devourer. [/spoiler]
[B][SIZE=3]The "Why" & Notable Synergies[/SIZE][/B] (08.15.13)
[spoiler][LIST][*][B]Why The Mimeoplasm?[/B]
I would consider Mimeo to be the strongest BUG general. While Damia, Sage of Stone is also powerful, she doesn't ever directly contribute to a gameplan. Mimeo acts as redundancy to the list's goals while not being entirely necessary either. Conceptually, this deck borrows a lot from Kuma's Damia deck, including the Mike/Trike finisher. The difference is that this deck has the potential to be much more unfair and much more early, forcing your opponents to have an answer or crumble from the multiple avenues of attack. The drawback is that it's a front-loaded, threat-heavy deck, and doesn't have the control options and safety nets that Damia has. The list is also susceptible to the age-old argument of graveyard hate, but you already know that.
[*][B]Why these reanimation targets?[/B]
There are many options, but we have isolated the most devastating targets. The goal is to put yourself so far ahead so early on that you'll be able to dominate the early game. The deck will only grow stronger as they print more disruptive, large creatures. Notable omissions include: Woodfall Primus, Sphinx Ambassador, Consecrated Sphinx, and the two Eldrazi. One could make the case for Consecrated Sphinx, but it still pales in comparison to Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, who will always be the card-drawer target of choice. Instead of playing "solid" targets, the list opts to play Sylvan Tutor and Worldly Tutor to shoot for "broken" targets only. When playing this deck, he and Sylvan Primordial will most likely be the first in line to be brought back from the dead. This deck has been well-equipped to reanimate these guys on an average of turn 3, with an occasional turn 2.
[*][b]Why dredgers?[/b]
The greatest form of raw card advantage this deck has to offer comes from the interaction between Life from the Loam and Bazaar of Baghdad, hence Crop Rotation. While this is a deck that is still heavily tutor-based, the lulls in the game can be filled with intense dredging via looting to abuse with the general. While dredgers don't necessarily offer "broken" plays, they butter up the consistency of one of the deck's goals (using high-threat reanimation targets to inhibit opponents.) Note also that Sylvan Library is a great way to abuse dredge if you're digging hard.
[*][b]Why little dudes? Dryad Arbor?[/b]
This deck's curve is quite low and doesn't need very much mana to combo off with. Why include the dudes at all? The first reason is to feed Mimeo. Mimeo reads that he needs to exile two creatures in your graveyard. Since we aren't running dynamic duos like Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon + Death's Shadow or Simic Sky-Swallower + Lord of Extinction, we're opting only to take advantage of Mimeo's first function: a reanimation spell. The second reason is to feed Survival of the Fittest and Fauna Shaman; in a deck that's light on fatties to pitch, these will often be palmed to start the sequence. The third, to a lesser extent, is to feed Victimize and Soul Exchange (no longer in the list). Lastly, ramp is ramp. Being a turn faster, especially when your goal is to utilize the GGG from Survival for your instant-win combo, is important in a high-powered metagame. A case can be argued for Bloom Tender and Joraga Treespeaker, but they often conflict with the turn 2 looter play and make for an un-optimal turn 4 play (after you reanimate on turn 3). Curve must be a consideration when you're playing in games where every turn matters.
[*][b]Why no Hermit Druid?[/b]
Other than the case I made before about the deck being a strictly inferior variant of the 5C Scion build, running Hermit actually hurts the first combo of the deck. It's as simple as that. We could add more basics to turn Hermit into a pure value creature, but that'd hurt the myriad of varying mana costs that the first few turns require. I acknowledge that this deck would be a turn faster and more consistent if it were to be a Hermit deck, but it creates a monotonous style of play that I'm not a fan of. It'd also warp about 12-15 slots in the list dedicated to making Hermit Druid more efficient.
[*][b]Mikaeus, the Unhallowed & Tidespout Tyrant, not just combo pieces?[/b]
It's worth noting that a few games were won via some broken plays you can make with these guys. For more seasoned players, you probably already know that these guys can randomly enable broken interactions. Sacrifice effects, namely Victimize and Read the Runes paired with Mike lead to some devastating Sylvan Primordial and Terastadon plays. Tidespout needs no introduction, with plays that involve Gilded Drake, Eternal Witness, and even any target that you can bounce back to your hand, loot, and reanimate again. They really get to shine in this deck, even without access to any infinite mana shenanigans.
[/LIST][/spoiler]
[B][SIZE=3]Improving the List[/SIZE][/B]
This is where you guys can help me point out cards that are weak, cards that I have forgotten, and other paths to victory that might make more sense. I haven't played with this list a whole lot, so I can definitely see it morphing in time to become much more efficient. Any and all suggestions are welcome![/spoiler]
Since i'm getting a more "Dredge" Vibe from the way you built the deck I have a couple thoughts. I would consider Tolarian Winds, and Breakthrough, and maybe even Attunement as faster dig options that are cheap and one sided. I would also recommend Sylvan Safekeeper as a protection piece aswell since Ooze will have the shroud ability if safekeeper does happen to be in the yard, and sylvan safekeeper's drawback for protection doesn't hurt to bad since you're already running Life from the Loam.
Devoted Druid seems to fit well here since you are focused on ooze combos. Thornling, Prodigal Sorcerer, and Quillspike all come to mind here. Jarad's Orders has been awesome in testing with setting up Ooze combos aswell.
Tell me how Vorinclex works out. I see him as fairly weak unless of course he survives, but I imagine you could reanimate better things, even if you are just using him for Mimeo shenanigans. I would also be weary of Filter lands in a low landcount deck. There have been plenty of times where it's hurt me when if the filter was a color producing land by itself I would've been better off. I also personally think Plasm Capture should be Spell Pierce or atleast fit Pierce in over something else.
Since i'm getting a more "Dredge" Vibe from the way you built the deck I have a couple thoughts. I would consider Tolarian Winds, and Breakthrough, and maybe even Attunement as faster dig options that are cheap and one sided. I would also recommend Sylvan Safekeeper as a protection piece aswell since Ooze will have the shroud ability if safekeeper does happen to be in the yard, and sylvan safekeeper's drawback for protection doesn't hurt to bad since you're already running Life from the Loam.
Devoted Druid seems to fit well here since you are focused on ooze combos. Thornling, Prodigal Sorcerer, and Quillspike all come to mind here. Jarad's Orders has been awesome in testing with setting up Ooze combos aswell.
Tell me how Vorinclex works out. I see him as fairly weak unless of course he survives, but I imagine you could reanimate better things, even if you are just using him for Mimeo shenanigans. I would also be weary of Filter lands in a low landcount deck. There have been plenty of times where it's hurt me when if the filter was a color producing land by itself I would've been better off. I also personally think Plasm Capture should be Spell Pierce or atleast fit Pierce in over something else.
Always a pleasure, _Cabal
The "Dredge" vibe is beginning to wane. They only come into heavy play when I really don't have anything else to do, making me question their inclusion. I thought about including "useful" creatures in their spots, such as Sower of Temptation and Phyexian Metamorph. With the density of tutors in this deck, it almost never opts to do the "slow" plan. That said, I still value the fact that they can pull you out of a dead draw with basically any looter, much faster than most decks take to recover properly. It's gonna take at least another dozen games or so before I can determine cutting them or not.
As for dredge-specific cards - digging at a 2-card loss (looking at Attunement and Breakthrough, which is an even bigger loss) is not something I want to be doing. We already have Magus of the Bazaar and Bazaar of Baghdad. Dredge can only truly take advantage of that situation if there are multiple in the yard. Not necessary IMO.
Vorinclex is actually better than I thought he would be, although not as desireable as Sylvan Primordial. Vorinclex is the sole reason why I'm even considering running Tooth and Nail haha. Time will tell how good he REALLY is, but since he has the ability to inhibit my opponents AND allow me to basically combo off the next turn seems quite good. I've only reanimated him twice in the handful of games I've played. Solid but not great would be my assessment.
Good point on the lands. I haven't had a problem just yet (running 5 rainbow lands), but I've been eyeballing adding the painlands (at least Yavimaya Coast) to compensate.
Plasm Capture is slightly win-more here, yes. I used to run Tooth and Nail, for which it was very important. I might add Tooth back in or change Plasm Capture to a more useful spell - thoughts on Tooth?
Lastly, could you or anyone else recommend more devastating reanimation targets? I'm really only looking for the cream of the crop here - ones that both inhibit my opponents and advance my situation. Don't suggest Rune-Scarred Demon or Consecrated Sphinx. Those don't even come even close to what I'm looking for.
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Edit: Strongly considering removing the dredgers. I was mapping out the scenario in my head, and it's usually how games go. In the first few turns of the game, I'll reanimate something big and deadly. Let's just use Sylvan Primodrial as an example. I bust my chops, reanimate him, and set everyone back and put myself far ahead. Now what? Dredging is an option. I can start moving my library about 4-12 cards at a time - but for why? Isn't this a pinpoint reanimator deck? Isn't this a combo deck? Rather than sit there hoping to hit some juicy targets, I should take advantage of the time to take advantage of my board position. For this exact reason, I think I'm going to add in another tutor and some more utility creatures.
Here is a link to my current Mimeoplasm deck just to give you some ideas. It is pretty competitive and in my meta only loses due to me holding back, me taking a crappy hand due to not wanting to bug people with another mulligan, and when I get ganged up on by the more competitive decks (and sometimes I still manage to pull it out even then).
I really prefer Palinchron combos over Necrotic Ooze ones as they are more resilient to both Library and Graveyard hate. Plus the cards themselves (other than Palinchron) tend to be far better on their own.
Here is a link to my current Mimeoplasm deck just to give you some ideas. It is pretty competitive and in my meta only loses due to me holding back, me taking a crappy hand due to not wanting to bug people with another mulligan, and when I get ganged up on by the more competitive decks (and sometimes I still manage to pull it out even then).
I really prefer Palinchron combos over Necrotic Ooze ones as they are more resilient to both Library and Graveyard hate. Plus the cards themselves (other than Palinchron) tend to be far better on their own.
After looking at your list, I don't think we have the exact same goals. I plan to end the game quickly and unfairly. I have set up the deck for multiple lines of broken plays that will lead into a combo win. Your list looks more traditional, with tons of answers. Still interested in hearing what you have to say though.
I run a very similar build.
However I feel like the amount of reanimation targets are low in your build. I have 11 fat creatures that I try and cheat out early. So love to abuse Havengul lich and yawgmoth's will after gaining infinite mana with palinchron
Seems more reliable than Triskelion and Mikaeus, the Unhallowed.
Feel free to check out my link with my deck list for ideas. Would also love your own advice on how to make my deck better. Thanks!
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
I've contemplated moving the dredgers out of the deck, but now I'm thinking I might be moving a few of the mana dorks instead. This deck has no particular rush to get to 3 mana by turn 2, barring a broken Buried Alive / Intuition play. It's always turn 1 tutor, turn 2 looter, turn 3 reanimate. It's very consistent in getting Jin/Sylvan out by turn 3, which is lining up with my goals nicely. What I would then replace the mana dorks with is, as you've stated, creatures that are "good on their own". I'm considering cards like Sower of Temptation, Dark Confidant, Phyrexian Metamorph, and Fleshbag Marauder - cards that are playable early but still good utility for Mimeoplasm mid-game. Time will tell.
I've also been considering Deadeye Navigator for some time now. He serves as a great way to put heavy pressure on the board with Sylvan Primordial and would make another great Victimized couple.
The other cards you've mentioned are great, but I'm mainly looking to have broken interactions or absolutely devastating cards. Llawan is a good example of a devastating card at high-powered tables. I'm so thankful that I don't rely on my general to win, as with Oona or Arcum.
I run a very similar build.
However I feel like the amount of reanimation targets are low in your build. I have 11 fat creatures that I try and cheat out early. So love to abuse Havengul lich and yawgmoth's will after gaining infinite mana with palinchron
Seems more reliable than Triskelion and Mikaeus, the Unhallowed.
Feel free to check out my link with my deck list for ideas. Would also love your own advice on how to make my deck better. Thanks!
The amount of reanimation targets are indeed light, but that is the result of not having any better creatures to reanimate. I ONLY want the most brutal of targets - ones that greatly inhibit my opponents or provide me with a significant advantage.
There seems to be a misconception about how reliable Mike/Trike is in here. It's VERY reliable. Out of the dozen or so games I've played with this deck, a third of them were won via Mike/Trike. If you have Victimize in hand, it's just the most optimal play always.
I'll definitely hop over to your thread to check out some ideas and drop off some love
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As I've been playing the deck (and mentioned above), the weakest cards in the deck have been the mana dorks. Going from 1 to 3 serves very little, and I'm thinking about only keeping the dorks that help fix mana (ie. Birds of Paradise). I thought my creature count was too low for Survival, but now I'm overflowed with them. I think to take the deck to the next level, I need to add in either more disruptive elements or more answers, preferably in the form of creatures still. I'm looking at:
I can't recommend flash enough. Imagine having a sylvan primordial and reanimation spell in hand. With V tutor you can put flash on top and go from 2 lands to 8 in one turn and bring everyone down to 0. It's quite lovely I must say.
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
I've been running Grixis reanimator for quite some time now (currently using Reaper King so I can play G/W targets). Some cards I've been very happy with so far:
Breakthrough - Digs really deep without a lot of mana, I'll usually do X = 1 or 2. I like it a lot more than Ideas Unbound which didn't work well for me since it didn't make me discard right away. Ill-Gotten Gains - Very disruptive for opponents, gives you a discard outlet and lets you get back reanimation spells and tutors that you've used. Insidious Dreams - Discard a fatty to tutor for a reanimation spell. Also if you don't suspect counters you can dump your hand EOT, put Windfall on top and do broken things. Windfall - I also run Wheel of Fortune of course since I'm in red but this has been an excellent backup. It works very well with some of the cards above because they encourage you to dump cards out of your hand very quickly.
Whenever possible I always run the Preordain, Ponder, Brainstorm and Impulse package. They let you cut redundant pieces while still letting you retain consistency. Since this is a graveyard deck I'd also add Strategic Planning to that list.
I also play Volrath's Shapeshifter but I'm not sure if this is the best place for it. Still it's basically a reanimation spell + discard outlet in one card and it can be a crappy Body Double sometimes. It does require you to be very careful about graveyard order. Stitch Together is another option but I'm not sure how fast your deck reaches threshold. I usually tutor for Wheel of Fortune or Windfall ASAP so mine gets there pretty quick.
I noticed that I have all the reanimation threats you have except tidespout tyrant. How has he held up?
Edit: Yay 100 posts.
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
I can't recommend flash enough. Imagine having a sylvan primordial and reanimation spell in hand. With V tutor you can put flash on top and go from 2 lands to 8 in one turn and bring everyone down to 0. It's quite lovely I must say.
Flash is definitely on my considerations list. I'll get into a bit further later, but I can see the value from the card instantly.
I've been running Grixis reanimator for quite some time now (currently using Reaper King so I can play G/W targets). Some cards I've been very happy with so far:
Breakthrough - Digs really deep without a lot of mana, I'll usually do X = 1 or 2. I like it a lot more than Ideas Unbound which didn't work well for me since it didn't make me discard right away. Ill-Gotten Gains - Very disruptive for opponents, gives you a discard outlet and lets you get back reanimation spells and tutors that you've used. Insidious Dreams - Discard a fatty to tutor for a reanimation spell. Also if you don't suspect counters you can dump your hand EOT, put Windfall on top and do broken things. Windfall - I also run Wheel of Fortune of course since I'm in red but this has been an excellent backup. It works very well with some of the cards above because they encourage you to dump cards out of your hand very quickly.
Whenever possible I always run the Preordain, Ponder, Brainstorm and Impulse package. They let you cut redundant pieces while still letting you retain consistency. Since this is a graveyard deck I'd also add Strategic Planning to that list.
I also play Volrath's Shapeshifter but I'm not sure if this is the best place for it. Still it's basically a reanimation spell + discard outlet in one card and it can be a crappy Body Double sometimes. It does require you to be very careful about graveyard order. Stitch Together is another option but I'm not sure how fast your deck reaches threshold. I usually tutor for Wheel of Fortune or Windfall ASAP so mine gets there pretty quick.
Hey Donald, always nice to see you in here. Those were the same suggestions you gave me when I inquired about my Sedris list However, this deck has evolved and is now more cut throat than. With that in mind, the curve of this deck literally tops out at 3. I'm trying to keep it as lean as possible. In that vein, yes, the digging cantrips may prove to be valuable, and I know I've had great success with them in my old Dralnu list. I will probably end up adding those sooner or later.
This deck isn't so much about digging as it is finding pinpoint reanimation targets and abusing them. Card's like Volrath's Shapeshifter can be strong, but are ultimately not aligned with my goals.
I noticed that I have all the reanimation threats you have except tidespout tyrant. How has he held up?
This is a great discussion point to talk about my changes for the deck. Tidespout Tyrant, along with Sylvan Primordial, make up the strongest reanimation targets in the deck (barring a combo win). They produce immense pressure on the board, and in Sylvan's case, accelerate you towards a win. Over the course of my games, I realized that I went for Sylvan Primordial 9 of 10 games. The reason is because it turns the game lopsided. All of a sudden you are able to do anything you want to do, while you momentarily starve your opponent of resources. In order to compound the effect, I'm adding in extra clone effects, and in particular, clone effects that can be repeated. I'm looking at Progenitor Mimic and Stolen Identity, both of which, when unchecked, will lead to a swift GG without the help of combo. Cloning Tidespout has a similar effect - playing a mana dork will allow you to bounce two permanents, creating a soft-lockdown effect on the board. Instead of trying to make the deck more flexible, why not abuse what it does best instead? After all, this deck is all about abusing the best creatures BUG has to offer.
One issue that came up while playing this deck was the lack of followups to a successful Primordial. You're sitting here, with 6-7 mana, and no play and no use for your general. I stripped the deck of all the grindier plays and inserted tutors and bomby plays, such as Tooth and Nail or Temporal Mastery, all of which compound the abuse of Sylvan Primordial's ramp with clones.
Of course, this is all in theory. Theory backed by a bit of experience anyways. Looking forward to playing the updated list again this week, and will return with findings. Thanks again for all of the help guys.
Although I think I cut too much looting. Temporal Mastery may get ousted for another loot spell. I'm not particularly crazy about Grim Tutor either - perhaps Tainted Pact.
I don't quite understand the attraction to Tainted Pact over Grim Tutor. The only time i can see the deck actually wanting to cast Pact is if the Ooze combo is already in the Yard and ooze is the only card you need to find same with Mike/trike and looking for Victimize or TnN if combo is in hand.. Otherwise, it could be a huge liability if your trying to tutor for anything that doesn't immediately win you the game and you end up exiling something you need that's in the library. Basically, having played with pact in combo decks like this it's almost always been a dead card in hand until i found what i was looking for.
I do, however like all of your most recent changes except for Temporal Mastery. I would put Ideas unbound back in the deck in mastery's place. Sure, you can Personal tutor for mastery and setup an extra turn, but it seems a little too cute. Especially since you're not playing Sensei's Divining Top.
I don't quite understand the attraction to Tainted Pact over Grim Tutor. The only time i can see the deck actually wanting to cast Pact is if the Ooze combo is already in the Yard and ooze is the only card you need to find same with Mike/trike and looking for Victimize or TnN if combo is in hand.. Otherwise, it could be a huge liability if your trying to tutor for anything that doesn't immediately win you the game and you end up exiling something you need that's in the library. Basically, having played with pact in combo decks like this it's almost always been a dead card in hand until i found what i was looking for.
I do, however like all of your most recent changes except for Temporal Mastery. I would put Ideas unbound back in the deck in mastery's place. Sure, you can Personal tutor for mastery and setup an extra turn, but it seems a little too cute. Especially since you're not playing Sensei's Divining Top.
You're right about both. I'm actually thinking about adding in another loot spell (or Flash) in place of Temporal Mastery and putting in Preordain, Ponder, Impulse, Brainstorm, and Strategic Planning. This is, at heart, a reanimator and combo deck - finding the key pieces, not directly looting away all of your cards, is fairly important.
Hey Donald, always nice to see you in here. Those were the same suggestions you gave me when I inquired about my Sedris list However, this deck has evolved and is now more cut throat than. With that in mind, the curve of this deck literally tops out at 3. I'm trying to keep it as lean as possible. In that vein, yes, the digging cantrips may prove to be valuable, and I know I've had great success with them in my old Dralnu list. I will probably end up adding those sooner or later.
I figured I had at some point but I couldn't remember. Regardless of how fast you're trying to make this I'd still probably at least try all the cards I mentioned except maybe Ill-Gotten Gains and even that's still good in a fast deck since people don't really like it when you cast it on turn 2-3.
Anyways aside from just generally good cards if you want to speed things lowering your curve is a good start but running fast mana also helps a lot. I think a painless add would be Chrome Mox since it should take up a land slot and is generally going to be better than a land. It also makes it easier to go infinite with Tidespout Tyrant which is a nice perk. Others that I'd consider are Dark Ritual, Mox Diamond, Mana Vault and Lotus Petal. I'm pretty sure the first 2 are good enough at least. (maybe I mentioned these too idk). These are all much faster than the mana elves though most are card disadvantage of course.
These are all cards I would try out to see how they do. If you do and they suck just let me know and I'll keep quiet.:p
Tooth and Nail really doesn't seem to fit here very well. Realistically it costs you 9 mana which is way too much. You can hardcast fatties for less than this so it's not like you have nothing to do with a lot of mana. Windfall will probably be much better in most cases since it's great with 9 mana and useful all throughout the game. Turn 2 Windfall can be very rough for opponents.
Dumping your hand to reanimate a fatty and having it not get there is something I run into a fair bit though. My strategy is to basically vomit hand reanimating a dude in the process then tutor up a draw 7 and repeat. The second fatty will usually get there.
I figured I had at some point but I couldn't remember. Regardless of how fast you're trying to make this I'd still probably at least try all the cards I mentioned except maybe Ill-Gotten Gains and even that's still good in a fast deck since people don't really like it when you cast it on turn 2-3.
Anyways aside from just generally good cards if you want to speed things lowering your curve is a good start but running fast mana also helps a lot. I think a painless add would be Chrome Mox since it should take up a land slot and is generally going to be better than a land. It also makes it easier to go infinite with Tidespout Tyrant which is a nice perk. Others that I'd consider are Dark Ritual, Mox Diamond, Mana Vault and Lotus Petal. I'm pretty sure the first 2 are good enough at least. (maybe I mentioned these too idk). These are all much faster than the mana elves though most are card disadvantage of course.
These are all cards I would try out to see how they do. If you do and they suck just let me know and I'll keep quiet.:p
Tooth and Nail really doesn't seem to fit here very well. Realistically it costs you 9 mana which is way too much. You can hardcast fatties for less than this so it's not like you have nothing to do with a lot of mana. Windfall will probably be much better in most cases since it's great with 9 mana and useful all throughout the game. Turn 2 Windfall can be very rough for opponents.
Dumping your hand to reanimate a fatty and having it not get there is something I run into a fair bit though. My strategy is to basically vomit hand reanimating a dude in the process then tutor up a draw 7 and repeat. The second fatty will usually get there.
Thanks for chiming in again. Let me go over your suggestions as well as the logic for some of my choices - maybe there's a happy medium.
@Chrome Mox & Mox Diamond
I haven't tried either, but the temptation is great. Yes, the are both better than mana dorks, but the reason I've included the dorks was to up the creature count for both Mimeoplasm and Survival fodder. Mox Diamond on the other hand is risky in a deck that only runs 33 lands, and only 32 that tap for mana. However, Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond both allow me to make more consistent turn 2/3 Sylvan Primordials, so the idea has some merit. I think this is going to come down to testing, both to see how much Survival suffers, how bad the card disadvantage is, and how often it lets me make broken plays.
@Mana Vault & Dark Ritual
I respect the power both of these have, I really do. Dark Ritual holds greater weight because this deck is very color hungry. I would potentially consider running it again if it didn't conflict so much with the slots that are already in the deck. Neither of them are particularly good for facilitating the early game, but it does let me go off a turn earlier.
@Tooth and Nail
Tooth is definitely out of place somewhat, but keep in mind that this deck shoots for turn 2-4 Sylvan Primordial virtually every game. That puts you up to or near the amount of mana for TNN, especially if you follow it up with a clone. I agree that it's clunky and doesn't really do anything, so it might be dropped for more facilitator cards. Windfall might make its way in here as my one "refill now" card.
One important thing to note, especially talking about your last point, is that this deck runs SIX reanimation targets. I'm not going for the big mill and reanimate - I'm going for a density of tutors followed by cheap loot / reanimate spells to bring back Sylvan Primordial in particular. The other supporting cast is very strong, but the focal point of the deck has now shifted based on playtest experience. The vomit hand strategy doesn't really work when only a sliver of your deck is worth vomiting into the yard.
I might cut some of the more expensive loot spells and mana dorks to see if there's any conflict with Survival. Perhaps add back in Golgari Grave-Troll as one way to put a creature back in my hand.
You're right about both. I'm actually thinking about adding in another loot spell (or Flash) in place of Temporal Mastery and putting in Preordain, Ponder, Impulse, Brainstorm, and Strategic Planning. This is, at heart, a reanimator and combo deck - finding the key pieces, not directly looting away all of your cards, is fairly important.
Yes do that...They could easily swap for the mana dorks. here are the cards i feel are particularly weak in your deck:
Tutors (17)
1 Diabolic Intent(worse if you cut down the dorks as i'm advising you should)
1 Tooth and Nail(Super Expensive outside of you getting a primordial online quick fast and in a hurry) Looting (10)
1 thought Courier\
------------------------------------------>Slow. you have a lot of value at your 2 drop i don't think you want to cast one of these clowns. Hapless Researcher is a lot better in terms of speed. Just not Longetivity, but we're not trying to go long anyway. Hapless can setup turn 2 ------------------------------------------>reanimate bombs,whereas these you're lucky to get a turn 3 reanimate. Putrid Imp falls into this category too.
1 Merfolk Looter /
1 Enclave Cryptologist(mana intensive for a small Effect)
1 Looter il-Kor (guess it synergizes with Stolen Identity, but otherwise for 2 mana you could be drawing more cards not waiting another turn to loot)
1 Read the Runes (slow, and this seems like carry over from Sedris which this deck can't really take advantage of since it's not trying to create infinite mana and find teh finisher to pitch with this.) Value (3)
1 Temporal Mastery (mentioned earlier) Utility / Defense Suite (12)
1 Plasm Capture (Slow and extremely Mana intensive)
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress (What U creatures are giving you a problem?)
1 Stolen Identity (Slow and Conditional)
Some suggestion on cards to look out for that might tickle your fancy to try out: Sensei's Divining Top. Another 1 Drop and very good at finding pieces of the puzzle, especially with shuffle effects.
Attunement: I know you hate it, but look at it as a draw 3 discard 3. You don't have to keep it in your hand, but if you can that just makes it even better. Worst case is you let it sit there for the perfect time to setup a reanimator.
Forbidden Alchemy: finds things. Puts other things in the graveyard. Instant. Great.
Carpet of Flowers: very good in a blue meta which you want this deck to compete in.
Nostalagic Dreams: some nice recursion on a discard outlet barring the Mana intensity it's pretty good.
Might not need it, but look into a graveyard pile that turns Mimeoplasm into an immediate win con if push comes to shove.
And finally as others have said i would look into Mox Diamond or Lotus Petal atleast, since they also creates busted openers and you don't really care about lands in the yard since you're playing loam.
I'm running Mox Diamond in Edric with 34 lands and Uril with 35 lands (I think) and it's fine. I know nothing of Legacy but I imagine the decks that play Mox Diamond, if there still are any, have an even lower land ratio. Sometimes it's dead but sometimes cards are like that. Chrome Mox is amazing just because it takes a land slot so you don't even need to cut gas for it (though that will bring you down to 32 land). They are purely facilitators for broken plays and they do their job quite well. Dark Ritual is a similar idea, same with Mana Vault except it produces colorless mana which makes it a lot worse. Just throwing it out there but Elvish Spirit Guide is Survival friendly fast mana...and I suppose it pitches itself for reanimation....turn 1 Gray Ogre not so good though....
I really like the idea of Flash and in theory could be very potent.
If you want to add the cheap cantrips I'd just pick the worst card in 5 different categories and cut them. It's not like you really want to reanimate the 6th best target in your deck.
EDIT: I agree with most of what was said above me except I hate Attunement too and I think top is too slow and not really needed. The problem that leads you into is abandoning Survival/Fauna Shaman which honestly seem like acceptable losses to me. I don't think they're good enough to run if you deck can't naturally support them.
Yes do that...They could easily swap for the mana dorks. here are the cards i feel are particularly weak in your deck:
Tutors (17)
1 Diabolic Intent(worse if you cut down the dorks as i'm advising you should)
1 Tooth and Nail(Super Expensive outside of you getting a primordial online quick fast and in a hurry) Looting (10)
1 thought Courier\
------------------------------------------>Slow. you have a lot of value at your 2 drop i don't think you want to cast one of these clowns. Hapless Researcher is a lot better in terms of speed. Just not Longetivity, but we're not trying to go long anyway. Hapless can setup turn 2 ------------------------------------------>reanimate bombs,whereas these you're lucky to get a turn 3 reanimate. Putrid Imp falls into this category too.
1 Merfolk Looter /
1 Enclave Cryptologist(mana intensive for a small Effect)
1 Looter il-Kor (guess it synergizes with Stolen Identity, but otherwise for 2 mana you could be drawing more cards not waiting another turn to loot)
1 Read the Runes (slow, and this seems like carry over from Sedris which this deck can't really take advantage of since it's not trying to create infinite mana and find teh finisher to pitch with this.) Value (3)
1 Temporal Mastery (mentioned earlier) Utility / Defense Suite (12)
1 Plasm Capture (Slow and extremely Mana intensive)
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress (What U creatures are giving you a problem?)
1 Stolen Identity (Slow and Conditional)
Some suggestion on cards to look out for that might tickle your fancy to try out: Sensei's Divining Top. Another 1 Drop and very good at finding pieces of the puzzle, especially with shuffle effects.
Attunement: I know you hate it, but look at it as a draw 3 discard 3. You don't have to keep it in your hand, but if you can that just makes it even better. Worst case is you let it sit there for the perfect time to setup a reanimator.
Forbidden Alchemy: finds things. Puts other things in the graveyard. Instant. Great.
Carpet of Flowers: very good in a blue meta which you want this deck to compete in.
Nostalagic Dreams: some nice recursion on a discard outlet barring the Mana intensity it's pretty good.
Might not need it, but look into a graveyard pile that turns Mimeoplasm into an immediate win con if push comes to shove.
And finally as others have said i would look into Mox Diamond or Lotus Petal atleast, since they also creates busted openers and you don't really care about lands in the yard since you're playing loam.
I like where you're going with this, but I don't think cutting looters is a possibility. I do definitely want to put Hapless Researcher back in, but I'm not sure about Putrid Imp. There's already an insane amount of card disadvantage in this deck. And so let me explain that the looters are also value for longevity - I need to throw stuff in the yard, that's how Mimeoplasm works. You're asking me to cut 4 of the key pieces to my turn 3 Sylvan Primordial plays - which is now what this deck has evolved into. Looters that last also allow me to use top-of-deck tutors the turn I draw into them, making the list much more potent in general. Read the Runes and Enclave Cryptologist are both less than ideal, but they enable turn 3 Sylvan Primordials as well. I'd be hard pressed to cut either. I'm going for some semblance of redundancy here and I don't think I can afford to cut those particular looters that you've mentioned. If you saw my deck in action or took it for a spin, you'd know what I mean. I've actually even been considering Merfolk Traders type cards.
In terms of acceleration, I'm not entirely sure on the 1-shot cards. This deck doesn't want to be an all-in combo deck. If I do add in a 1-shot acceleration card, it'll be either Dark Ritual or Elvish Spirit Guide. Carpet of Flowers is definitely worth including.
Forbidden Alchemy and Attunement don't really help solve any more problems. They don't function well on the curve, they don't play well with the tutors I have. Thirst for Knowledge is considered bad because it doesn't enable a turn 3 Sylvan Primordial without some help. I would rather run Strategic Planning over either.
@Llawan, Cephalid Empress - she's absolutely ridiculous. Azami, Jenara, Arcum, Sharuum, Oona, Maelstrom Wanderer, Teferi to name a few
I'm running Mox Diamond in Edric with 34 lands and Uril with 35 lands (I think) and it's fine. I know nothing of Legacy but I imagine the decks that play Mox Diamond, if there still are any, have an even lower land ratio. Sometimes it's dead but sometimes cards are like that. Chrome Mox is amazing just because it takes a land slot so you don't even need to cut gas for it (though that will bring you down to 32 land). They are purely facilitators for broken plays and they do their job quite well. Dark Ritual is a similar idea, same with Mana Vault except it produces colorless mana which makes it a lot worse. Just throwing it out there but Elvish Spirit Guide is Survival friendly fast mana...and I suppose it pitches itself for reanimation....turn 1 Gray Ogre not so good though....
I really like the idea of Flash and in theory could be very potent.
If you want to add the cheap cantrips I'd just pick the worst card in 5 different categories and cut them. It's not like you really want to reanimate the 6th best target in your deck.
EDIT: I agree with most of what was said above me except I hate Attunement too and I think top is too slow and not really needed. The problem that leads you into is abandoning Survival/Fauna Shaman which honestly seem like acceptable losses to me. I don't think they're good enough to run if you deck can't naturally support them.
The dorks look like they might be coming out, but I can't get behind cutting the looters with bodies. The very core of the deck is based around these guys - how else will I get things into the yard? I can't solely depend on Intuition or Buried Alive.
Just so both of you know how most of my games go, to give you a better picture of how the deck works -
Turn 1: 1-mana tutor for Sylvan Primordial or have other reanimation target in hand.
Turn 2: Looter
Turn 3: Loot -> reanimate
(Turn 4: Go for clone or combo, depending on situation.)
The speed of the line of play I just detailed can vary, turn 2 with help or turn 4 off a slower hand. By turn 4 is almost guaranteed. I suppose with Putrid Imp and Hapless Researcher, these kinds of plays are a lot easier to make, since you can reverse the loot vs tutor turns. Don't forget about Drowned Rusalka and Llanowar Mentor.
Alright, so I managed to play a few games tonight. Unfortunately, this wasn't exactly the best metagame to play against, as this list was way too ferocious. I ended up taking out all of the combo pieces in favor of dumb reanimation targets, but the list was still playing solid.
After I got back home, I made a few modifications. The biggest problem with the deck is that it can have "dead" hands, meaning hands that don't do a ton. So to double check the efficiency of my deck, I drew 100 starting hands and documented the deficiencies. If there were any early plays that would alter my results, such as Preordain, I always cast them first before passing final judgment. Here are my results:
Total hands: 100
Mulligans: 16 (either no mana or super slow start)
Mana issues: 10*
Missing looter: 4
Missing reanimation spell: 3*
Missing target: 14
Perfect: 53
These hands are based on having Sylvan Primordial, Tidespout Tyrant, or Vorinclex out by turn 4. I would say a good 70% of my "perfect" hands involved a turn 3, and about 10% involved a turn 2, leaving the other 20% to turn 4 plays. The greatest problems I had with my deck were mana issues, but by casting Brainstorm and its other cantrip ilk, I was able to cut that in half. The inclusion of dig spells greatly helps the deck, but I'm adding a land and Elvish Spirit Guide anyways. Regardless, I am quite happy with a deck that can consistently do what it sets out to do more than half the time, considering how many things need to go right, and how small of a window it is to succeed. If I could bump that up to 65% or even 75% in the future with the printing of new cards, while still maintaining the integrity of the deck's goals, I'd be ecstatic. (WTB Entomb 2.0!)
*These hands also count the ones where I didn't have enough mana to cast Mimeoplasm in a reasonable amount of time, or didn't have a creature to discard.
Throughout my playing tonight, Stolen Identity was either win-more or just a blank, as many of you have suggested. The games that I had it in were usually overkill, and many times I'd rather just tutor for the combo kill instead. Otherwise, most cards have been holding their weight. The watch list, however, includes Eternal Witness (used her once in a win-more). That's about it for now.
Would really like to fit Impulse, perhaps in place of Eternal Witness. They both have similar functions, except one is useful in the early game. List should be running a lot smoother now, and I love the changes. Thanks to everyone, and _Cabal especially for being my partner in crime.
EDIT:
Forgot to mention a few MVPs tonight - Flash - always excellent. Good call Splatterthrash! Brainstorm and ilk - awesome. Made otherwise bad hands keepable. Thank you again, Donald. Progenitor Mimic - holy cow. This guys is nuts. Thanks Bandgeek on Deckstats. Entomb - for always being the best card in the deck
Looks real good. I did something similar to that in my thread after seeing this.
Also I set up a link in my thread to yours.
I'm assuming you don't mind but thought I'd let you know just in case you didn't want it there.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Looks real good. I did something similar to that in my thread after seeing this.
Also I set up a link in my thread to yours.
I'm assuming you don't mind but thought I'd let you know just in case you didn't want it there.
Thanks for the kudos bud. I'll be sure to stop by (sorry I haven't yet!).
Went ahead and made a banner cause I felt like being artsy fartsy.
Played some games against the more competitive group tonight. Won 3 of 5 games. Pretty happy with the deck, but noticed a few lackluster cards.
Out: Life from the Loam
Shocker! In all honesty, now that the deck has moved away from sweeping discard, Loam's value has decreased tremendously. This isn't a grindy deck, and it has a great density of tutors. What I mean is, there's better ways to get going or get back in the game than using slow-dredge for lands. The card advantage isn't there, the value isn't there - it's a cut.
In: Windfall
This was the card I was looking for. A sweeping, refiller to clear out those bad hands, or to refuel after your opponents overstock their hands due to Sylvan Primordial slowing them down. I can't wait to use this card.
Out: Elves of Deep Shadow
Having black was never really the problem - having all three is. That's the only reason I'm keeping Birds of Pardise and not playing Dark Ritual. One thing I noticed while playing the deck is that it has a TON of tricky turn 2-3 plays that allow you to really come out the gates quickly. That trickiness involves a lot of different colors for the most part, whether it's heavy green from Survival of the Fittest or UB from Lim-Dul's Vault. Deep Shadow does not pass this test and ramping to 3 from 1 isn't so crazy without Entomb in hand.
In: Llanowar Mentor
Again, the other issue I had with the deck were hands where I had the creature or only one tutor with ramp / answer spells. These hands are non-keepables, but the inclusion of this one guy can change that. He acts as psuedo ramp & a discard outlet, allowing you to use Mimeo earlier in lieu of a reanimation spell. Either way, this guy is better than Deep Shadow. Trickster Mage was another consideration, as it allows broken turn 2 plays with a 2CMC reanimation spell, much like the weaker version of Putrid Imp. It does have some interesting interactions with other cards in the deck, such as Bazaar of Baghdad, Ancient Tomb and the mana rocks. I wouldn't be surprised to see her in the deck eventually.
And those are all the changes. I'd like to mention a few last notes though.
Watch List: Eternal Witness, Beast Within
Both are reactive cards in a proactive deck. I find myself palming them for no reason. Would be better served as Trickster Mage and Impulse imo. Also considering Arcane Denial or Dispel as extra protection while going off. I can't run Misdirection - the card disadvantage is too much, and it doesn't stop turn 2-3 Swords to Plowshares without another creature on the board. A good "removal" replacement would probably be Turbulent Dreams. Tech from Kuma.
After thinking about it, I am going to cut some weaker cards in the deck for situationally better ones.
Putrid Imp -> Trickster Mage
Strictly better IMO. Putrid Imp doesn't enable any more broken plays than Trickster Mage does, and definitely doesn't have multiple uses like she does either (mana fixing, pitched to FoW, tapping down opponent lands EOT to stop countermagic, getting double uses out of Bazaar etc). In addition, she can be used as a deterrent, whereas Imp literally does nothing.
Beast Within -> Turbulent Dreams / Arcane Denial
The amount of times where I have cast Beast Within in a crucial moment is 0. There have been times where if I DID have it, it would've saved me, but I've noticed that there's never been a scenario where a counterspell would've been any worse. In fact, a counterspell would be better. But to preserve the integrity of having answers, I will play either Turbulent Dreams or Arcane Denial here. Leaning towards Turbulent only because it can be used proactively in more situations than Beast (ie. returning a reanimation enchantment for more ETB effects, returning creatures like Gilded Drake, causing early disruption while setting up a play).
Glad you finally made up your mind about Trickster. I agree with it. However, i just have to ask since you cut Beast within. What do you do against gravehate in the form of permanents (Leyline, RIP, etc...)? Your list is becoming more and more All-in, and not really respecting the fact that people can easily interact with the graveyard which is strictly where you play from.
You don't need Phyrexian Devourer and Necrotic Ooze in your list. You carry far too many 6 or greater cmc creatures. On a 4 man table it's doubtful you could take out the whole table through Ooze combo, even with a little luck.
Glad you finally made up your mind about Trickster. I agree with it. However, i just have to ask since you cut Beast within. What do you do against gravehate in the form of permanents (Leyline, RIP, etc...)? Your list is becoming more and more All-in, and not really respecting the fact that people can easily interact with the graveyard which is strictly where you play from.
Graveyard hate is a myth.
In the metagame I play in, and in many others that I know of, people always "talk" about GY hate, but never dedicate the slot to it. If people want to pack GY hate, they'll do it in droves or build some sort of deck that can actually use the hate piece (ie. Leyline of the Void). But it's not a big deal, it just means you won't be able to set up Sylvan Primordial plays early on. The deck has so many tutors - it's not hard to dig up a Cyclonic Rift (which I kept in here for the comeback factor), EOT, untap Buried Alive for the win.
Now if everyone's decks aren't up to par, then you can expect them to board in more GY hate, in which case you'll have to be slightly more careful. Sorcery speed GY hate in the form of enchantments or artifacts are not as scary as getting Capped or Shred Memory'd. Still, this deck is quite adept at combating all different kinds of hate due to its built in redundancy. And of course, in those weaker metagames, actually hard casting your fatties is not an impossibility.
It's been a while since I've posted here. I don't play much Magic anymore, but I still spend time playing multiplayer EDH and making decklists for fun.
[B][SIZE=3]History & Evolution[/SIZE][/B]
This list started as Grixis with Sedris, the Traitor King at the helm. This deck was originally based around heavy looting and single-target reanimator, followed by a late game mass unearthing of Palinchron-type cards for a one-sided Living Death. I then realized that instead of trying to mimic Living Death, I should just revamp the list to play more Living Death effects. As I shifted the direction of the deck, I realized how useless and expensive of a commander Sedris was, and how the only way to break parity with my plethora of looting effects was to use Squee, Goblin Nabob. After revising the list a hundred times over, I finally confirmed that Grixis would not satisfy my goals nor reach the power level I desired. I then consulted with a few friends for ideas and eventually drafted a The Mimeoplasm list that managed to both take advantage of early reanimation and still have easy access to game-ending combos. Green offers stronger reanimation targets and gives the deck Survival of the Fittest as well as creature tutors, leading to more lines of broken play. While I'm quite happy with the list in its current incarnation, it never hurts to get more heads in on the matter!
[B][SIZE=3]Noteworthy[/SIZE][/B]
This list is intended to hang with higher-powered decks. I don't expect it to consistently win vs Hermit or Storm, but at least be able to duke with the upper tier of generals. There have been some arguments about turning the list into dedicated Hermit, but why do that when it'd be strictly inferior to 5C Scion? I did mock up that list, and no matter what, it just wasn't as consistent. From another perspective, a good thing about the deck is that it's a flexible one, meaning you can always shoot to play a reanimator "fair" game and avoid going infinite in different metas. I've opted also not to include the "cute" Mimeoplasm targets, such as Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon. I'd much rather win in a sweeping fashion and not leave any outs for my opponents.
Look, it's a funny deck name because it's an ooze doing an ooze combo. Har har.
1 The Mimeoplasm
//Combo
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
//Value Reanimator Targets
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
//Cheat
1 Reanimate
1 Exhume
1 Life // Death
1 Animate Dead
1 Dance of the Dead
1 Apprentice Necromancer
1 Necromancy
1 Doomed Necromancer
//Into the Bin
1 Entomb
1 Thoughtseize
1 Careful Study
1 Hapless Researcher
1 Drowned Rusalka
1 Merfolk Looter
1 Thought Courier
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Intuition
1 Buried Alive
//Tutors
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
1 Grim Tutor
//Card Quality
1 Brainstorm
1 Preordain
1 Ponder
1 Impulse
1 See Beyond
1 Sylvan Library
1 Recurring Insight
1 Time Spiral
1 Nature's Claim
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Pact of Negation
1 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
1 Swan Song
1 Mana Drain
1 Counterspell
//Ramp
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Elves of Deep Shadow
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Dark Ritual
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
//Lands
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Command Tower
1 City of Brass
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 River of Tears
1 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Underground River
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Flooded Grove
1 Twilight Mire
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Flooded Strand
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
1 Island
[URL="http://deckstats.net/decks/1909/24612-the-mimeoplasm?saved=1&lng=en"]Click for Visual Spoiler / Mana Breakdown[/URL]
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[spoiler]
[B][SIZE=3]Deck Goals & Game Plan[/SIZE][/B]
[numlist][*]Set up looting and engines to put reanimation targets into the graveyard.
[*]Use high-threat reanimation targets to inhibit opponents.
[*]End the game via combo. (could also be priority 1; in a vacuum, can win on turn 3-5 consistently)[/numlist]
[B][SIZE=3]Enablers & Combos[/SIZE][/B]
[spoiler][LIST]
[*][B]Buried Alive / Intuition / Survival of the Fittest[/b]
These all help set up the combos below - if you have one of these and a reanimation spell (or the general), you have the win in your grasp. Victimize is specifically in the deck for Mike/Trike. Note also that Living Death can also be used for the same purpose and not just a value play.
[*][B]Necrotic Ooze in play w/ Phyrexian Devourer + Triskelion in yard[/B]
The deck's primary "I win" combo. For those of you that don't know how it works, dump Devourer and Trike in the yard, then either cast Ooze or reanimate it. Ooze gains Devourer's ability, allowing you to exile the top card of your library till you have enough counters to use Trike's ping ability to kill the table. There are enough large creatures in the deck to fuel Devourer. [/spoiler]
[B][SIZE=3]The "Why" & Notable Synergies[/SIZE][/B] (08.15.13)
[spoiler][LIST][*][B]Why The Mimeoplasm?[/B]
I would consider Mimeo to be the strongest BUG general. While Damia, Sage of Stone is also powerful, she doesn't ever directly contribute to a gameplan. Mimeo acts as redundancy to the list's goals while not being entirely necessary either. Conceptually, this deck borrows a lot from Kuma's Damia deck, including the Mike/Trike finisher. The difference is that this deck has the potential to be much more unfair and much more early, forcing your opponents to have an answer or crumble from the multiple avenues of attack. The drawback is that it's a front-loaded, threat-heavy deck, and doesn't have the control options and safety nets that Damia has. The list is also susceptible to the age-old argument of graveyard hate, but you already know that.
[*][B]Why these reanimation targets?[/B]
There are many options, but we have isolated the most devastating targets. The goal is to put yourself so far ahead so early on that you'll be able to dominate the early game. The deck will only grow stronger as they print more disruptive, large creatures. Notable omissions include: Woodfall Primus, Sphinx Ambassador, Consecrated Sphinx, and the two Eldrazi. One could make the case for Consecrated Sphinx, but it still pales in comparison to Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, who will always be the card-drawer target of choice. Instead of playing "solid" targets, the list opts to play Sylvan Tutor and Worldly Tutor to shoot for "broken" targets only. When playing this deck, he and Sylvan Primordial will most likely be the first in line to be brought back from the dead. This deck has been well-equipped to reanimate these guys on an average of turn 3, with an occasional turn 2.
[*][b]Why dredgers?[/b]
The greatest form of raw card advantage this deck has to offer comes from the interaction between Life from the Loam and Bazaar of Baghdad, hence Crop Rotation. While this is a deck that is still heavily tutor-based, the lulls in the game can be filled with intense dredging via looting to abuse with the general. While dredgers don't necessarily offer "broken" plays, they butter up the consistency of one of the deck's goals (using high-threat reanimation targets to inhibit opponents.) Note also that Sylvan Library is a great way to abuse dredge if you're digging hard.
[*][b]Why little dudes? Dryad Arbor?[/b]
This deck's curve is quite low and doesn't need very much mana to combo off with. Why include the dudes at all? The first reason is to feed Mimeo. Mimeo reads that he needs to exile two creatures in your graveyard. Since we aren't running dynamic duos like Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon + Death's Shadow or Simic Sky-Swallower + Lord of Extinction, we're opting only to take advantage of Mimeo's first function: a reanimation spell. The second reason is to feed Survival of the Fittest and Fauna Shaman; in a deck that's light on fatties to pitch, these will often be palmed to start the sequence. The third, to a lesser extent, is to feed Victimize and Soul Exchange (no longer in the list). Lastly, ramp is ramp. Being a turn faster, especially when your goal is to utilize the GGG from Survival for your instant-win combo, is important in a high-powered metagame. A case can be argued for Bloom Tender and Joraga Treespeaker, but they often conflict with the turn 2 looter play and make for an un-optimal turn 4 play (after you reanimate on turn 3). Curve must be a consideration when you're playing in games where every turn matters.
[*][b]Why no Hermit Druid?[/b]
Other than the case I made before about the deck being a strictly inferior variant of the 5C Scion build, running Hermit actually hurts the first combo of the deck. It's as simple as that. We could add more basics to turn Hermit into a pure value creature, but that'd hurt the myriad of varying mana costs that the first few turns require. I acknowledge that this deck would be a turn faster and more consistent if it were to be a Hermit deck, but it creates a monotonous style of play that I'm not a fan of. It'd also warp about 12-15 slots in the list dedicated to making Hermit Druid more efficient.
[*][b]Mikaeus, the Unhallowed & Tidespout Tyrant, not just combo pieces?[/b]
It's worth noting that a few games were won via some broken plays you can make with these guys. For more seasoned players, you probably already know that these guys can randomly enable broken interactions. Sacrifice effects, namely Victimize and Read the Runes paired with Mike lead to some devastating Sylvan Primordial and Terastadon plays. Tidespout needs no introduction, with plays that involve Gilded Drake, Eternal Witness, and even any target that you can bounce back to your hand, loot, and reanimate again. They really get to shine in this deck, even without access to any infinite mana shenanigans.
[/LIST][/spoiler]
[B][SIZE=3]Improving the List[/SIZE][/B]
This is where you guys can help me point out cards that are weak, cards that I have forgotten, and other paths to victory that might make more sense. I haven't played with this list a whole lot, so I can definitely see it morphing in time to become much more efficient. Any and all suggestions are welcome![/spoiler]
List tags are malformed.
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
Devoted Druid seems to fit well here since you are focused on ooze combos. Thornling, Prodigal Sorcerer, and Quillspike all come to mind here. Jarad's Orders has been awesome in testing with setting up Ooze combos aswell.
Tell me how Vorinclex works out. I see him as fairly weak unless of course he survives, but I imagine you could reanimate better things, even if you are just using him for Mimeo shenanigans. I would also be weary of Filter lands in a low landcount deck. There have been plenty of times where it's hurt me when if the filter was a color producing land by itself I would've been better off. I also personally think Plasm Capture should be Spell Pierce or atleast fit Pierce in over something else.
Always a pleasure, _Cabal
The "Dredge" vibe is beginning to wane. They only come into heavy play when I really don't have anything else to do, making me question their inclusion. I thought about including "useful" creatures in their spots, such as Sower of Temptation and Phyexian Metamorph. With the density of tutors in this deck, it almost never opts to do the "slow" plan. That said, I still value the fact that they can pull you out of a dead draw with basically any looter, much faster than most decks take to recover properly. It's gonna take at least another dozen games or so before I can determine cutting them or not.
As for dredge-specific cards - digging at a 2-card loss (looking at Attunement and Breakthrough, which is an even bigger loss) is not something I want to be doing. We already have Magus of the Bazaar and Bazaar of Baghdad. Dredge can only truly take advantage of that situation if there are multiple in the yard. Not necessary IMO.
Vorinclex is actually better than I thought he would be, although not as desireable as Sylvan Primordial. Vorinclex is the sole reason why I'm even considering running Tooth and Nail haha. Time will tell how good he REALLY is, but since he has the ability to inhibit my opponents AND allow me to basically combo off the next turn seems quite good. I've only reanimated him twice in the handful of games I've played. Solid but not great would be my assessment.
As for the Devoted Druid + Quillspike + Prodigal Sorcerer + Thornling combo, I'm iffy on it. I "may" be focused on Ooze combo, but note how this combo requires 4 creatures in the yard. Not only does that take up basically 3 more slots of "useless" cards, it can't be gunned for via Buried Alive or Intuition. The combo you're offering up is basically the Hermit Druid combo, of which I've opted not to play simply because it invalidates the primary Ooze combo and has a lot of dead slots. Including Hermit would also ask me to include Bloodghast, Fatestitcher, Narcomoeba, and Dread Return, as well as cards like Spellskite, Sylvan Safekeeper, Green Sun's Zenith, Chord of Calling. It'd be completely different deck and very one-dimensional.
Good point on the lands. I haven't had a problem just yet (running 5 rainbow lands), but I've been eyeballing adding the painlands (at least Yavimaya Coast) to compensate.
Plasm Capture is slightly win-more here, yes. I used to run Tooth and Nail, for which it was very important. I might add Tooth back in or change Plasm Capture to a more useful spell - thoughts on Tooth?
Lastly, could you or anyone else recommend more devastating reanimation targets? I'm really only looking for the cream of the crop here - ones that both inhibit my opponents and advance my situation. Don't suggest Rune-Scarred Demon or Consecrated Sphinx. Those don't even come even close to what I'm looking for.
---
Edit: Strongly considering removing the dredgers. I was mapping out the scenario in my head, and it's usually how games go. In the first few turns of the game, I'll reanimate something big and deadly. Let's just use Sylvan Primodrial as an example. I bust my chops, reanimate him, and set everyone back and put myself far ahead. Now what? Dredging is an option. I can start moving my library about 4-12 cards at a time - but for why? Isn't this a pinpoint reanimator deck? Isn't this a combo deck? Rather than sit there hoping to hit some juicy targets, I should take advantage of the time to take advantage of my board position. For this exact reason, I think I'm going to add in another tutor and some more utility creatures.
In the case of Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, I won't be short of ways to take advantage of the ensuing turn, having drawn 7 cards. This is more for the case of every other reanimation target. Sylvan Primodrial and Terastadon, the biggest offensive plays of the deck, both benefit greatly from Phyrexian Metamorph, who I think should be in the deck. Considering followup plays to ramp, between Sylvan Primordial and Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger, Jarad's Orders WOULD be a good addition. Body Double also looks like a great target for both Jarad's Orders and Survival of the Fittest effects. Another consideration is adding a bit more creature removal to the deck, of which Fleshbag Marauder and Sower of Temptation look tempting.
Ideas....
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
I really prefer Palinchron combos over Necrotic Ooze ones as they are more resilient to both Library and Graveyard hate. Plus the cards themselves (other than Palinchron) tend to be far better on their own.
http://www.essentialmagic.com/decks/View.asp?ID=883559
I will give more feedback when I have more time.
Thanks for chiming in.
After looking at your list, I don't think we have the exact same goals. I plan to end the game quickly and unfairly. I have set up the deck for multiple lines of broken plays that will lead into a combo win. Your list looks more traditional, with tons of answers. Still interested in hearing what you have to say though.
Cheers!
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
However I feel like the amount of reanimation targets are low in your build. I have 11 fat creatures that I try and cheat out early. So love to abuse Havengul lich and yawgmoth's will after gaining infinite mana with palinchron
Seems more reliable than Triskelion and Mikaeus, the Unhallowed.
Feel free to check out my link with my deck list for ideas. Would also love your own advice on how to make my deck better. Thanks!
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Thanks for your thoughts!
I've contemplated moving the dredgers out of the deck, but now I'm thinking I might be moving a few of the mana dorks instead. This deck has no particular rush to get to 3 mana by turn 2, barring a broken Buried Alive / Intuition play. It's always turn 1 tutor, turn 2 looter, turn 3 reanimate. It's very consistent in getting Jin/Sylvan out by turn 3, which is lining up with my goals nicely. What I would then replace the mana dorks with is, as you've stated, creatures that are "good on their own". I'm considering cards like Sower of Temptation, Dark Confidant, Phyrexian Metamorph, and Fleshbag Marauder - cards that are playable early but still good utility for Mimeoplasm mid-game. Time will tell.
I've also been considering Deadeye Navigator for some time now. He serves as a great way to put heavy pressure on the board with Sylvan Primordial and would make another great Victimized couple.
The other cards you've mentioned are great, but I'm mainly looking to have broken interactions or absolutely devastating cards. Llawan is a good example of a devastating card at high-powered tables. I'm so thankful that I don't rely on my general to win, as with Oona or Arcum.
The amount of reanimation targets are indeed light, but that is the result of not having any better creatures to reanimate. I ONLY want the most brutal of targets - ones that greatly inhibit my opponents or provide me with a significant advantage.
There seems to be a misconception about how reliable Mike/Trike is in here. It's VERY reliable. Out of the dozen or so games I've played with this deck, a third of them were won via Mike/Trike. If you have Victimize in hand, it's just the most optimal play always.
I'll definitely hop over to your thread to check out some ideas and drop off some love
---
As I've been playing the deck (and mentioned above), the weakest cards in the deck have been the mana dorks. Going from 1 to 3 serves very little, and I'm thinking about only keeping the dorks that help fix mana (ie. Birds of Paradise). I thought my creature count was too low for Survival, but now I'm overflowed with them. I think to take the deck to the next level, I need to add in either more disruptive elements or more answers, preferably in the form of creatures still. I'm looking at:
Defensive
Offensive / Disruptive
Value / Utility
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Breakthrough - Digs really deep without a lot of mana, I'll usually do X = 1 or 2. I like it a lot more than Ideas Unbound which didn't work well for me since it didn't make me discard right away.
Ill-Gotten Gains - Very disruptive for opponents, gives you a discard outlet and lets you get back reanimation spells and tutors that you've used.
Insidious Dreams - Discard a fatty to tutor for a reanimation spell. Also if you don't suspect counters you can dump your hand EOT, put Windfall on top and do broken things.
Windfall - I also run Wheel of Fortune of course since I'm in red but this has been an excellent backup. It works very well with some of the cards above because they encourage you to dump cards out of your hand very quickly.
Whenever possible I always run the Preordain, Ponder, Brainstorm and Impulse package. They let you cut redundant pieces while still letting you retain consistency. Since this is a graveyard deck I'd also add Strategic Planning to that list.
I also play Volrath's Shapeshifter but I'm not sure if this is the best place for it. Still it's basically a reanimation spell + discard outlet in one card and it can be a crappy Body Double sometimes. It does require you to be very careful about graveyard order. Stitch Together is another option but I'm not sure how fast your deck reaches threshold. I usually tutor for Wheel of Fortune or Windfall ASAP so mine gets there pretty quick.
EDIT: Dark Ritual has also been very good for me.
Edit: Yay 100 posts.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Flash is definitely on my considerations list. I'll get into a bit further later, but I can see the value from the card instantly.
Hey Donald, always nice to see you in here. Those were the same suggestions you gave me when I inquired about my Sedris list However, this deck has evolved and is now more cut throat than. With that in mind, the curve of this deck literally tops out at 3. I'm trying to keep it as lean as possible. In that vein, yes, the digging cantrips may prove to be valuable, and I know I've had great success with them in my old Dralnu list. I will probably end up adding those sooner or later.
This deck isn't so much about digging as it is finding pinpoint reanimation targets and abusing them. Card's like Volrath's Shapeshifter can be strong, but are ultimately not aligned with my goals.
This is a great discussion point to talk about my changes for the deck. Tidespout Tyrant, along with Sylvan Primordial, make up the strongest reanimation targets in the deck (barring a combo win). They produce immense pressure on the board, and in Sylvan's case, accelerate you towards a win. Over the course of my games, I realized that I went for Sylvan Primordial 9 of 10 games. The reason is because it turns the game lopsided. All of a sudden you are able to do anything you want to do, while you momentarily starve your opponent of resources. In order to compound the effect, I'm adding in extra clone effects, and in particular, clone effects that can be repeated. I'm looking at Progenitor Mimic and Stolen Identity, both of which, when unchecked, will lead to a swift GG without the help of combo. Cloning Tidespout has a similar effect - playing a mana dork will allow you to bounce two permanents, creating a soft-lockdown effect on the board. Instead of trying to make the deck more flexible, why not abuse what it does best instead? After all, this deck is all about abusing the best creatures BUG has to offer.
One issue that came up while playing this deck was the lack of followups to a successful Primordial. You're sitting here, with 6-7 mana, and no play and no use for your general. I stripped the deck of all the grindier plays and inserted tutors and bomby plays, such as Tooth and Nail or Temporal Mastery, all of which compound the abuse of Sylvan Primordial's ramp with clones.
Of course, this is all in theory. Theory backed by a bit of experience anyways. Looking forward to playing the updated list again this week, and will return with findings. Thanks again for all of the help guys.
Changes:
Living Death -> Tooth and Nail
Drowned Rusalka -> Frantic Search
Hapless Researcher -> Thirst for Knowledge
Ideas Unbound -> Lim-Dul's Vault
Golgari Thug -> Phyrexian Metamorph
Stinkweed Imp -> Progenitor Mimic
Golgari Grave-Troll -> Stolen Identity
Llanowar Mentor -> Temporal Mastery
Although I think I cut too much looting. Temporal Mastery may get ousted for another loot spell. I'm not particularly crazy about Grim Tutor either - perhaps Tainted Pact.
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
I don't quite understand the attraction to Tainted Pact over Grim Tutor. The only time i can see the deck actually wanting to cast Pact is if the Ooze combo is already in the Yard and ooze is the only card you need to find same with Mike/trike and looking for Victimize or TnN if combo is in hand.. Otherwise, it could be a huge liability if your trying to tutor for anything that doesn't immediately win you the game and you end up exiling something you need that's in the library. Basically, having played with pact in combo decks like this it's almost always been a dead card in hand until i found what i was looking for.
I do, however like all of your most recent changes except for Temporal Mastery. I would put Ideas unbound back in the deck in mastery's place. Sure, you can Personal tutor for mastery and setup an extra turn, but it seems a little too cute. Especially since you're not playing Sensei's Divining Top.
You're right about both. I'm actually thinking about adding in another loot spell (or Flash) in place of Temporal Mastery and putting in Preordain, Ponder, Impulse, Brainstorm, and Strategic Planning. This is, at heart, a reanimator and combo deck - finding the key pieces, not directly looting away all of your cards, is fairly important.
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
I figured I had at some point but I couldn't remember. Regardless of how fast you're trying to make this I'd still probably at least try all the cards I mentioned except maybe Ill-Gotten Gains and even that's still good in a fast deck since people don't really like it when you cast it on turn 2-3.
Anyways aside from just generally good cards if you want to speed things lowering your curve is a good start but running fast mana also helps a lot. I think a painless add would be Chrome Mox since it should take up a land slot and is generally going to be better than a land. It also makes it easier to go infinite with Tidespout Tyrant which is a nice perk. Others that I'd consider are Dark Ritual, Mox Diamond, Mana Vault and Lotus Petal. I'm pretty sure the first 2 are good enough at least. (maybe I mentioned these too idk). These are all much faster than the mana elves though most are card disadvantage of course.
These are all cards I would try out to see how they do. If you do and they suck just let me know and I'll keep quiet.:p
Tooth and Nail really doesn't seem to fit here very well. Realistically it costs you 9 mana which is way too much. You can hardcast fatties for less than this so it's not like you have nothing to do with a lot of mana. Windfall will probably be much better in most cases since it's great with 9 mana and useful all throughout the game. Turn 2 Windfall can be very rough for opponents.
Dumping your hand to reanimate a fatty and having it not get there is something I run into a fair bit though. My strategy is to basically vomit hand reanimating a dude in the process then tutor up a draw 7 and repeat. The second fatty will usually get there.
Thanks for chiming in again. Let me go over your suggestions as well as the logic for some of my choices - maybe there's a happy medium.
@Chrome Mox & Mox Diamond
I haven't tried either, but the temptation is great. Yes, the are both better than mana dorks, but the reason I've included the dorks was to up the creature count for both Mimeoplasm and Survival fodder. Mox Diamond on the other hand is risky in a deck that only runs 33 lands, and only 32 that tap for mana. However, Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond both allow me to make more consistent turn 2/3 Sylvan Primordials, so the idea has some merit. I think this is going to come down to testing, both to see how much Survival suffers, how bad the card disadvantage is, and how often it lets me make broken plays.
@Mana Vault & Dark Ritual
I respect the power both of these have, I really do. Dark Ritual holds greater weight because this deck is very color hungry. I would potentially consider running it again if it didn't conflict so much with the slots that are already in the deck. Neither of them are particularly good for facilitating the early game, but it does let me go off a turn earlier.
@Tooth and Nail
Tooth is definitely out of place somewhat, but keep in mind that this deck shoots for turn 2-4 Sylvan Primordial virtually every game. That puts you up to or near the amount of mana for TNN, especially if you follow it up with a clone. I agree that it's clunky and doesn't really do anything, so it might be dropped for more facilitator cards. Windfall might make its way in here as my one "refill now" card.
One important thing to note, especially talking about your last point, is that this deck runs SIX reanimation targets. I'm not going for the big mill and reanimate - I'm going for a density of tutors followed by cheap loot / reanimate spells to bring back Sylvan Primordial in particular. The other supporting cast is very strong, but the focal point of the deck has now shifted based on playtest experience. The vomit hand strategy doesn't really work when only a sliver of your deck is worth vomiting into the yard.
I might cut some of the more expensive loot spells and mana dorks to see if there's any conflict with Survival. Perhaps add back in Golgari Grave-Troll as one way to put a creature back in my hand.
Right now I'm thinking of cutting:
Tooth and Nail -> Flash
Temporal Mastery -> Windfall
Really want to add in Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, Impulse and Strategic Planning. Thinking the mana dorks themselves might be prime candidates to be cut.
More discussion is welcome!
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
Yes do that...They could easily swap for the mana dorks. here are the cards i feel are particularly weak in your deck:
Tutors (17)
1 Diabolic Intent(worse if you cut down the dorks as i'm advising you should)
1 Tooth and Nail(Super Expensive outside of you getting a primordial online quick fast and in a hurry)
Looting (10)
1 thought Courier\
------------------------------------------>Slow. you have a lot of value at your 2 drop i don't think you want to cast one of these clowns. Hapless Researcher is a lot better in terms of speed. Just not Longetivity, but we're not trying to go long anyway. Hapless can setup turn 2 ------------------------------------------>reanimate bombs,whereas these you're lucky to get a turn 3 reanimate. Putrid Imp falls into this category too.
1 Merfolk Looter /
1 Enclave Cryptologist(mana intensive for a small Effect)
1 Looter il-Kor (guess it synergizes with Stolen Identity, but otherwise for 2 mana you could be drawing more cards not waiting another turn to loot)
1 Read the Runes (slow, and this seems like carry over from Sedris which this deck can't really take advantage of since it's not trying to create infinite mana and find teh finisher to pitch with this.)
Value (3)
1 Temporal Mastery (mentioned earlier)
Utility / Defense Suite (12)
1 Plasm Capture (Slow and extremely Mana intensive)
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress (What U creatures are giving you a problem?)
1 Stolen Identity (Slow and Conditional)
1 Llanowar Elves ]
1 Elvish Mystic > Don't really advance your plan Bop, EoDS should be enough
1 Fyndhorn Elves ]
Some suggestion on cards to look out for that might tickle your fancy to try out:
Sensei's Divining Top. Another 1 Drop and very good at finding pieces of the puzzle, especially with shuffle effects.
Attunement: I know you hate it, but look at it as a draw 3 discard 3. You don't have to keep it in your hand, but if you can that just makes it even better. Worst case is you let it sit there for the perfect time to setup a reanimator.
Forbidden Alchemy: finds things. Puts other things in the graveyard. Instant. Great.
Hapless Researcher/ Putrid Imp: quickness is the Key.
Dark Ritual/ Cabal Ritual: there are a few nut hands these cards create. Yay Speed
Yawgmoth's Will: Let's try again!
Carpet of Flowers: very good in a blue meta which you want this deck to compete in.
Nostalagic Dreams: some nice recursion on a discard outlet barring the Mana intensity it's pretty good.
Might not need it, but look into a graveyard pile that turns Mimeoplasm into an immediate win con if push comes to shove.
And finally as others have said i would look into Mox Diamond or Lotus Petal atleast, since they also creates busted openers and you don't really care about lands in the yard since you're playing loam.
I really like the idea of Flash and in theory could be very potent.
If you want to add the cheap cantrips I'd just pick the worst card in 5 different categories and cut them. It's not like you really want to reanimate the 6th best target in your deck.
EDIT: I agree with most of what was said above me except I hate Attunement too and I think top is too slow and not really needed. The problem that leads you into is abandoning Survival/Fauna Shaman which honestly seem like acceptable losses to me. I don't think they're good enough to run if you deck can't naturally support them.
I like where you're going with this, but I don't think cutting looters is a possibility. I do definitely want to put Hapless Researcher back in, but I'm not sure about Putrid Imp. There's already an insane amount of card disadvantage in this deck. And so let me explain that the looters are also value for longevity - I need to throw stuff in the yard, that's how Mimeoplasm works. You're asking me to cut 4 of the key pieces to my turn 3 Sylvan Primordial plays - which is now what this deck has evolved into. Looters that last also allow me to use top-of-deck tutors the turn I draw into them, making the list much more potent in general. Read the Runes and Enclave Cryptologist are both less than ideal, but they enable turn 3 Sylvan Primordials as well. I'd be hard pressed to cut either. I'm going for some semblance of redundancy here and I don't think I can afford to cut those particular looters that you've mentioned. If you saw my deck in action or took it for a spin, you'd know what I mean. I've actually even been considering Merfolk Traders type cards.
In terms of acceleration, I'm not entirely sure on the 1-shot cards. This deck doesn't want to be an all-in combo deck. If I do add in a 1-shot acceleration card, it'll be either Dark Ritual or Elvish Spirit Guide. Carpet of Flowers is definitely worth including.
Forbidden Alchemy and Attunement don't really help solve any more problems. They don't function well on the curve, they don't play well with the tutors I have. Thirst for Knowledge is considered bad because it doesn't enable a turn 3 Sylvan Primordial without some help. I would rather run Strategic Planning over either.
@Llawan, Cephalid Empress - she's absolutely ridiculous. Azami, Jenara, Arcum, Sharuum, Oona, Maelstrom Wanderer, Teferi to name a few
The dorks look like they might be coming out, but I can't get behind cutting the looters with bodies. The very core of the deck is based around these guys - how else will I get things into the yard? I can't solely depend on Intuition or Buried Alive.
Just so both of you know how most of my games go, to give you a better picture of how the deck works -
Turn 1: 1-mana tutor for Sylvan Primordial or have other reanimation target in hand.
Turn 2: Looter
Turn 3: Loot -> reanimate
(Turn 4: Go for clone or combo, depending on situation.)
The speed of the line of play I just detailed can vary, turn 2 with help or turn 4 off a slower hand. By turn 4 is almost guaranteed. I suppose with Putrid Imp and Hapless Researcher, these kinds of plays are a lot easier to make, since you can reverse the loot vs tutor turns. Don't forget about Drowned Rusalka and Llanowar Mentor.
I'll be updating the list a bit later today.
EDIT:
So far, looking like:
Llanowar Elves -> Carpet of Flowers
Fyndhorn Elves -> Chrome Mox
Elvish Mystic -> Mox Diamond
Enclave Cryptologist -> Putrid Imp
Frantic Search -> Hapless Researcher
Thirst for Knowledge -> Brainstorm
Read the Runes -> Flash
Temporal Mastery -> Preordain
Tooth and Nail -> Ponder
Plasm Capture -> Drowned Rusalka
Stolen Identity -> Windfall (iffy on cuttin this. It's not really situational when you're going for turn 2-4 Sylvan Primordial every game)
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
After I got back home, I made a few modifications. The biggest problem with the deck is that it can have "dead" hands, meaning hands that don't do a ton. So to double check the efficiency of my deck, I drew 100 starting hands and documented the deficiencies. If there were any early plays that would alter my results, such as Preordain, I always cast them first before passing final judgment. Here are my results:
Total hands: 100
Mulligans: 16 (either no mana or super slow start)
Mana issues: 10*
Missing looter: 4
Missing reanimation spell: 3*
Missing target: 14
Perfect: 53
These hands are based on having Sylvan Primordial, Tidespout Tyrant, or Vorinclex out by turn 4. I would say a good 70% of my "perfect" hands involved a turn 3, and about 10% involved a turn 2, leaving the other 20% to turn 4 plays. The greatest problems I had with my deck were mana issues, but by casting Brainstorm and its other cantrip ilk, I was able to cut that in half. The inclusion of dig spells greatly helps the deck, but I'm adding a land and Elvish Spirit Guide anyways. Regardless, I am quite happy with a deck that can consistently do what it sets out to do more than half the time, considering how many things need to go right, and how small of a window it is to succeed. If I could bump that up to 65% or even 75% in the future with the printing of new cards, while still maintaining the integrity of the deck's goals, I'd be ecstatic. (WTB Entomb 2.0!)
*These hands also count the ones where I didn't have enough mana to cast Mimeoplasm in a reasonable amount of time, or didn't have a creature to discard.
Throughout my playing tonight, Stolen Identity was either win-more or just a blank, as many of you have suggested. The games that I had it in were usually overkill, and many times I'd rather just tutor for the combo kill instead. Otherwise, most cards have been holding their weight. The watch list, however, includes Eternal Witness (used her once in a win-more). That's about it for now.
So the changes, currently, are as follows:
Llanowar Elves -> Carpet of Flowers
Fyndhorn Elves -> Elvish Spirit Guide
Elvish Mystic -> Mox Diamond
Enclave Cryptologist -> Putrid Imp
Frantic Search -> Hapless Researcher
Thirst for Knowledge -> Brainstorm
Read the Runes -> Flash
Temporal Mastery -> Preordain
Tooth and Nail -> Ponder
Plasm Capture -> Drowned Rusalka
Stolen Identity -> Underground River
Would really like to fit Impulse, perhaps in place of Eternal Witness. They both have similar functions, except one is useful in the early game. List should be running a lot smoother now, and I love the changes. Thanks to everyone, and _Cabal especially for being my partner in crime.
EDIT:
Forgot to mention a few MVPs tonight -
Flash - always excellent. Good call Splatterthrash!
Brainstorm and ilk - awesome. Made otherwise bad hands keepable. Thank you again, Donald.
Progenitor Mimic - holy cow. This guys is nuts. Thanks Bandgeek on Deckstats.
Entomb - for always being the best card in the deck
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
Also I set up a link in my thread to yours.
I'm assuming you don't mind but thought I'd let you know just in case you didn't want it there.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Thanks for the kudos bud. I'll be sure to stop by (sorry I haven't yet!).
Went ahead and made a banner cause I felt like being artsy fartsy.
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
Played some games against the more competitive group tonight. Won 3 of 5 games. Pretty happy with the deck, but noticed a few lackluster cards.
Out: Life from the Loam
Shocker! In all honesty, now that the deck has moved away from sweeping discard, Loam's value has decreased tremendously. This isn't a grindy deck, and it has a great density of tutors. What I mean is, there's better ways to get going or get back in the game than using slow-dredge for lands. The card advantage isn't there, the value isn't there - it's a cut.
In: Windfall
This was the card I was looking for. A sweeping, refiller to clear out those bad hands, or to refuel after your opponents overstock their hands due to Sylvan Primordial slowing them down. I can't wait to use this card.
Out: Elves of Deep Shadow
Having black was never really the problem - having all three is. That's the only reason I'm keeping Birds of Pardise and not playing Dark Ritual. One thing I noticed while playing the deck is that it has a TON of tricky turn 2-3 plays that allow you to really come out the gates quickly. That trickiness involves a lot of different colors for the most part, whether it's heavy green from Survival of the Fittest or UB from Lim-Dul's Vault. Deep Shadow does not pass this test and ramping to 3 from 1 isn't so crazy without Entomb in hand.
In: Llanowar Mentor
Again, the other issue I had with the deck were hands where I had the creature or only one tutor with ramp / answer spells. These hands are non-keepables, but the inclusion of this one guy can change that. He acts as psuedo ramp & a discard outlet, allowing you to use Mimeo earlier in lieu of a reanimation spell. Either way, this guy is better than Deep Shadow. Trickster Mage was another consideration, as it allows broken turn 2 plays with a 2CMC reanimation spell, much like the weaker version of Putrid Imp. It does have some interesting interactions with other cards in the deck, such as Bazaar of Baghdad, Ancient Tomb and the mana rocks. I wouldn't be surprised to see her in the deck eventually.
And those are all the changes. I'd like to mention a few last notes though.
Watch List: Eternal Witness, Beast Within
Both are reactive cards in a proactive deck. I find myself palming them for no reason. Would be better served as Trickster Mage and Impulse imo. Also considering Arcane Denial or Dispel as extra protection while going off. I can't run Misdirection - the card disadvantage is too much, and it doesn't stop turn 2-3 Swords to Plowshares without another creature on the board. A good "removal" replacement would probably be Turbulent Dreams. Tech from Kuma.
MVPs: Progenitor Mimic (again), Tidespout Tyrant (w/ clones!), and Elvish Spirit Guide
For the EXACT reasons I included them, they are shining brighter than ever.
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EDIT:
After thinking about it, I am going to cut some weaker cards in the deck for situationally better ones.
Putrid Imp -> Trickster Mage
Strictly better IMO. Putrid Imp doesn't enable any more broken plays than Trickster Mage does, and definitely doesn't have multiple uses like she does either (mana fixing, pitched to FoW, tapping down opponent lands EOT to stop countermagic, getting double uses out of Bazaar etc). In addition, she can be used as a deterrent, whereas Imp literally does nothing.
Beast Within -> Turbulent Dreams / Arcane Denial
The amount of times where I have cast Beast Within in a crucial moment is 0. There have been times where if I DID have it, it would've saved me, but I've noticed that there's never been a scenario where a counterspell would've been any worse. In fact, a counterspell would be better. But to preserve the integrity of having answers, I will play either Turbulent Dreams or Arcane Denial here. Leaning towards Turbulent only because it can be used proactively in more situations than Beast (ie. returning a reanimation enchantment for more ETB effects, returning creatures like Gilded Drake, causing early disruption while setting up a play).
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
Graveyard hate is a myth.
In the metagame I play in, and in many others that I know of, people always "talk" about GY hate, but never dedicate the slot to it. If people want to pack GY hate, they'll do it in droves or build some sort of deck that can actually use the hate piece (ie. Leyline of the Void). But it's not a big deal, it just means you won't be able to set up Sylvan Primordial plays early on. The deck has so many tutors - it's not hard to dig up a Cyclonic Rift (which I kept in here for the comeback factor), EOT, untap Buried Alive for the win.
Now if everyone's decks aren't up to par, then you can expect them to board in more GY hate, in which case you'll have to be slightly more careful. Sorcery speed GY hate in the form of enchantments or artifacts are not as scary as getting Capped or Shred Memory'd. Still, this deck is quite adept at combating all different kinds of hate due to its built in redundancy. And of course, in those weaker metagames, actually hard casting your fatties is not an impossibility.
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain