Quote from DirkGentlyThe great EDH project continues! this time it's the first 3-color generals, and the one I fear the most: Maelstrom Wanderer. I usually prefer control decks, or at least aggro-control. This deck is just off-the-rails crazy ramp-and-draw-and-drop-bombs-like-it's-world-war-3.
This isn't my usual strategy, so if I missed any crucial bombs let me know. Or if I missed any powerful ramp. Or draw. Those being basically the only things the deck has.
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general (1)1 Maelstrom Wandererramp (19)1 oracle of mul daya1 cultivate1 explosive vegetation1 kodama's reach1 sakura-tribe elder1 exploration1 burgeoning1 recross the paths1 sol ring1 mana crypt1 gilded lotus1 grim monolith1 palladium myr1 thran dynamo1 worn powerstone1 garruk wildspeaker1 skyshroud claim1 life from the loam1 Mana vaultdraw (14)1 fact or fiction1 intuition1 mystic remova1 rhystic study1 greater good1 scroll rack1 sensei's divining top1 jace the mind sculptor1 brainstorm1 drumhunter1 magus of the library1 ohran viper1 Sylvan Library1 Urban Evolutionbombs (27)1 avenger of zendikar1 balefire dragon1 blatant thievery1 diluvian primordial1 giant adephage1 gruul ragebeast1 palinchron1 sphinx ambassador1 sylvan primordial1 thought reflection1 tooth and nail1 arcanis the omnipotent1 consecrated sphinx1 deadeye navigator1 hellkite tyrant1 inferno titan1 mana reflection1 niv-mizzet dracogenius1 warstorm surge1 beguiler of wills1 bribery1 future sight1 kiki-jiki, mirror breaker1 riko of two reflections1 temporal manipulation1 time warp1 capsizeland (39)utility (11)1 Forbidden Orchard3 cycling lands1 High Market1 Kessig Wolf Run1 Minamo, school at water's edge1 Miren, the Moaning well1 Spinerock Knoll1 Mosswort Bridge1 Yavimaya Hollowfixing (22)1 Ancient Tomb9 fetches3 duals3 shocks1 command tower1 Gaea's Cradle3 checklands1 Temple of the False Godbasics (6)2 island1 mountain3 forest
Quote from DirkGentlygood call on some of the ramp, I forgot some of the stronger mana elves and land enchantments. Any idea what you'd cut for them?
sphinx of uthuun and knowledge exploitation were close to making the cut, but ended up getting eliminated. Which bombs would you eliminate for them?
harmonize, concentrate, and tidings all seem ok but sort of subpar compared to some of the other options. Is there anything you'd cut for them?
I do have a mana crypt in the list, you must have missed it. probably because the list has next to zero organization.
Quote from KryptnytThe strongest thing a Wanderer deck can do bar none is cascade into Jokulhaups, or similar, resolve it, and have a wanderer swinging on an empty board. The game is typically over if jokulhaups resolves, and still in your favor if your opponent is playing counterspells.
Quote from DirkGentlyno worries about the rambling, i can easily top that. maybe not right now though, since i have some actual work to get to
might add walk and mastery, however i was trying melek recently and the extra turns i felt got annoying for everyone else. probably less so in this deck, though, since they're more likely to equal a win. and they aren't doubled.
loam is a pet card of mine, as is intuition, as is setting up loam with intuition. I could see cutting loam if I feel I'm getting too many drops, but I do love the synergy with loam and exploration/burgeoning/oracle. especially oracle.
might add the magus of the future if i like the enchantment enough.
i can't believe greater good would be anything short of stellar, but I guess I'll have to see. food chain is an intriguing suggestion though.
DEN seemed good with all the etb effects running in the deck. seems worth a try at least.
i've used hellkite tyrant in my zirilan deck and it's always been insanely good there. I think it's at least worth a shot.
kiki-jiki could be cut. like DEN he seems insane with etb but maybe I've ovestimating how much I'm running.
Riku is mostly for the turn after wanderer. I mean, he has no instant board impact usually, but if he's forcing a removal spell that's really the most you can hope for most creatures.
mizzet seems excellent to me - immediately drawing a card, plus being an engine for more draw or removal later seems really good. And I think my mana can support the red decently. Zegana was on the list, but I worry that I'll spend my early turns ramping, then hit zegana off the wanderer and get an overpriced elvish visionary.
boundless realms got cut because i have so few basics.
ohran viper - i might be thinking this deck is slower than it is.
drumhunter - really? he seemed so cool. draw every turn and ramp too? i want to at least try him.
beguiler - she seems so nasty, though, esp with haste. i don't love molten primordial but i'll see how i feel about it after playing this deck for reals.
warstorm surge - but it's guaranteed 7 damage! plus anything else you hit! I dunno, it seems awesome for the same reason I don't like zegana.
adephage - yeah, just a fatty, but it seems like it'd get out of control super fast. i mean, next turn you swing for 14.
ragebeast - it seems cool to me, you'd get 2+ free kills, and it's a 6/6 to boot. I didn't want to run removal that didn't double as a finisher.
inferno titan i could see cutting, although he does seem powerful.
balefire - also been run in zirilan and seemed awesome there.
blatant thievery - why would haste matter? i like the option to hit any permanent, especially. it doubles as ramp.
thought reflection - ok, i'll cut it.
capsize - actually maybe i should cut this. i was thinking bounce wanderer to recast him, but i guess i'm unlikely to have 3 mana open for the buyback if i hit it off cascade.
mystic remora - again, might be thinking too slow. but i figured it's probably good for a few cards early, before most ramp, which is mostly in the 3+ range.
rhystic study - maybe cut this.
SDT - but it seems good.
brainstorm - ok, ok, but you always just do this right before you wanderer, and put the bombiest stuff on your deck. Right? that seems amazing for 1 mana.
magus of the library - i honestly thought this guy seemed awesome. I feel like, turn 1, land, turn 2, land, play him, turn 3, use him, play a land, ramp, turn 4, use him, play a land, ramp, turn 5, wanderer, use him, etc. I dunno, he seems like a strong draw engine for so cheap. and a lot of the other draw could easily refill the hand to activate him again. not to mention, tapping for mana means he's never irrelevant. He seemed really awesome to me, tbh.
ok, so that was pretty rambly anyway.
i thought about the haups, but my concern is that instant-speed removal means you're starting over from scratch and now everyone hates you and wanderer costs more. and it's probably really hard to use if it's in your hand. I'd rather using something like wildfire since it preserves your ramp advantage, but i couldn't find room for it.
Quote from MrCoupon
While I agree that it's a fantastic cascade, I find Maelstrom Wanderer to be best built to emphasize all-in ramp, so if you either A) Draw 'Haups after the cascade, you never, ever want to use it ever or B) Any opponent goes land, Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Rapid Hybridization, Pongify, Condemn or hits any type of removal before you kill EVERYONE you pretty much just lose because you are out of cards and resources, and they are not.
Also, the game is incredibly not in your favor if they are playing counterspells. In that instance they counter the Wanderer, so everyone is reset, you have roughly zero hand, no resources, and a general who costs :10mana:. Everyone else is playing a less resource-intensive general, and they have more cards to recover with. At least in my meta that's how it would go Don't mean to sound universal.
Quote from MrCoupon
As far as your ramp, I am not a big fan of Recross the Paths or Life From the Lome. Recross is, in my opinion, worse than the 4 mana get two land spells (of which at least Ranger's Path is absent from your list). The reasoning behind this is, while we are good at clashing, I usually don't want to devote two turns to accomplish what one of the other three mana ramp spells accomplish. Because of the abundance of 3 mana spells that net us two extra mana in the coming turns, it pales in comparison in my mind. Lome is an engine, in my opinion, and not really ramp.
Urban Evolution is a card I played in my earlier iterations of the deck, but the extra one mana made too much of a difference pretty consistently in comparison to Concentrate or Harmonize. And for the same mana investment, Tidings gets an extra card. I loved the extra land drop at first, but cmc 5 is not where we want to be ramping a mere +1. It's still a good filler card, but I don't like it in a mostly finished list, and in my opinion that's where your deck is at this point. Your framework is really strong, you just need to test and test, and cut and cut. If your testing disagrees with my suggestions, go with your testing.
I really like Burgeoning as a card, but not as much in this deck. I want my cards in Wanderer to scale as well as possible, and hitting Burgeoning off of a cascade is a total boner deflater.
Greater Good is a card in my list that has been incredibly disappointing. It seems so good on paper that I have not cut it yet, but... it just never seems to be a difference maker.
Deadeye Navigator was in my earlier builds, but I feel this just isn't that strong of a DEN deck. He had his moments, for sure. But he just fizzled a bit too often.
Hellkite Tyrant is very similar. I put him in as an auto-include and just never got any mileage out of him whatsoever. Very disappointing.
I guess I don't really know what Kiki-Jikki is copying. Do you have some insight for me? I am admittedly probably missing some strong interactions. I don't like the :symr::symr::symr: mana cost, as is by FAR my least desirable color.
Riku seems better spent as his own deck to me. I have not tested him, but I envision too often he does nothing. He is so fragile and high profile I wouldn't expect him to live through a turn.
I am not a fan of Mizzet because both he is not much of a presence the turn he hits (typically) and his activated ability relies on :symr:.If it were a activation cost I would see him being better. For the same cmc, I run Prime Speaker Zegana, which has an immediate impact, draws more cards, and hits harder (albeit without evasion).
To me the weakest looking cards in your list are: [cards]
Ohran Viper (doesn't do anything in this deck, imo)
Drumhunter (slow, poor ramp, minimal pay off relative to other spells. I prefer focus to versatility in this deck)
Beguiler of Wills (I'd play any number of steal effects over it, namely Treachery, Sower of Temptation, Gilded Drake, and Molten Primordial)
Warstorm Surge (leaves too much to chance, imo, and gives opponents time to deal with it)
Giant Adaphage (just a fatty, I feel we kill with medium fatties with powerful effects)
Gruul Ragebeast (last thing I care about when I go off is my opponents creatures, typically. Probably could be directly replaced with Molten Primordial to better effect, imo)
Inferno Titan (never been a fan in this format, but love when my opponents play him so I can hit it with Rite of ReplicationThe other guys I don't like as much, but I see being useful, just not optimal include
Balefire Dragon (never actually got around to testing him, heard he was disappointing)
Blatant Thievery (on the surface sounds better than Molten Primordial, but untap, haste, and usefulness with Greater Good (negligible since I'm probably going to cut it)
and Food Chain (arguably the most powerful, explosive card in the deck) put the Primordial over the top, imo)
Thought Reflection (no immediate impact, only good if you are otherwise doing good things (i.e. win-more))
Capsize (love the card, not for the direction I took the deck in, though)
Mystic Remora (good, but takes away from our primary goal and is anti-ramp. Good filler card, though)
Rhystic Study (at three mana I want to be closer to Maelstrom Wanderer. I'll draw off my dedicated draw spells, not give my opponents the option to play around)
Sensei's Divining Top (so much of this deck screams Divining Top, but I have not been impressed with it)
Quote from KryptnytYou can top and brainstorm to set them up, you have Cavern of Souls to make your general uncounterable, and you have a second cascade to get your value back. It won't work every single time. Just a majority of the time, which means easy wins.
In a deck that plays Loam as a "pet card" it really improves the value of that too.
Quote from DirkGently
as far as zegana, do people really find her worth it? my main concern is that, unless I stop ramping to play a fatty pre-wanderer, she'll just be a 1/1 or 2/2 frequently.