I guess I have to apologize for my above post. Oathkeeper, Takeno's Daisho does not re-equip the creature that comes back. I had just sort of been under the impression that it had. Sorry about that and I will have to go back later and fix it in the OP. It is still possible to combo with it but it requires Ashnod's Altar and an on ETB or on death sort of trigger with it. It makes it significantly less good.
As a side note, the OP has been expanded QUITE A BIT in the last two days. The card options tab has been expanded quite a bit and mostly just needs follow up discussion on the cards. The strategy section has also been expanded quite a bit. I probably need another 4 hours or so to fill things in and just clean it up but its one step closer to being done.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
In doing some of this write up I have come across some things I really felt like pushing in for some testing. I always like doing all of the research that goes into making a primer because sometimes it makes you look at something differently than you had before. Some of this stuff I just really feel like I need to get some testing in with.
DECK CHANGES:
Mindslicer -> Crypt Ghast I had been having a much harder time with the mindslicer than I had originally expected to. I do have some good solid value engines but it was too difficult to get him into play with a good value engine and execute hands. I love the slicer but for now I am going to try to move past him and test some other things. Crypt Ghast I earlier dismissed because of how frail he is but I think I am even more of a reanimator deck now than I had been in the past. I think the extort that he gives will be very good with toshiro's spell chaining as it gives me some life siphoning and access to tons of mana.
Myojin of Night's Reach -> Sheoldred, Whispering One I have this love and hate relationship with myojin. The problem is that I cannot reanimate to bring it back well. I could regret this but I want to just make a change in the list and try something else. I have been interested in trying to bring Sheoldred back into the list for a while for more testing and it seems like as good a time as any to give her another shot.
Mind Stone -> Jet Medallion just trying out a different stone. I see some potential to get a lot of mana gain from the Medallion which I really like. I like that the Mind Stone has the ability to cycle itself in play but I think there is room for more value out of the Medallion.
Eye of Doom -> Oathkeeper, Takeno's Daisho ok yes I am being a little silly with this change but I just think its cool and flavorful and sometimes thats all you need in EDH to do something wacky. I like that I can put this on Toshiro and start beating in for 5 or defend myself with a creature that takes out X/6 creatures. Its a means to go offensive with Toshiro as well as a means to protect him to some degree as well. Its wacky and I might regret it but it just looks soooooo cool that I have to put it in at least for some testing.
Tainted Strike -> Batterskull this deck really just wants to drag things out and survive and I think this card goes a long ways in a lot of cases to do that. Having just this on Toshiro gives me a combat monster on the ground. I generally dont even care if I am hitting players with him either because he still defends me and gains life in this case. The biggest pain is just keeping three mana up at like all times but having the batterskull in play seems like a means to just slow roll things at times.
Death Cloud -> Phyrexian Reclamation I have gotten the cloud a few times and its mostly been more awkward than I had expected it to be. I think the Reclamation is a very strong effect in general and it has both quick uses and long term effects which is solid.
I apologize for doing so many changes in one shot but I just want to try some different angles and return to a few things that I might not have done justice. This does sort of shortcut some of my testing of some cards that I will have to come back to but I just feel like I want to be elsewhere at the moment so I will just go and test the things I want to
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Care to elaborate "Death Cloud has been mostly awkward"?
Also, Oathkeeper seems a tad limited, considering it's only good on Toshiro and at least, I haven't really used Toshiro for attacking. To me, he's been more of an enchantment/token-blocked than actually a beater...
The only time when I want to hit with him is when I have Jitte and no other creatures...
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
Care to elaborate "Death Cloud has been mostly awkward"?
Also, Oathkeeper seems a tad limited, considering it's only good on Toshiro and at least, I haven't really used Toshiro for attacking. To me, he's been more of an enchantment/token-blocked than actually a beater...
The only time when I want to hit with him is when I have Jitte and no other creatures...
Death Cloud - I honestly dont know what my ideal objective is with the card is my issue. I have seen it in hand like three times so far and once I used it like an Exsanguinate except that one person didn't die to it and managed to stabilize through even with Toshiro hitting him every turn (I still somehow managed to win but not by much). I had another game where it just sat in my hand all game with not much for creatures to actually need to remove with it. Most of the time I have a hard time really using it in a way where I come out ahead with the card. When I used to use it in my Varolz, the Scar-Striped deck I had SOOOOO much ramp that it was always easy to use it as a land handicap and just take out my opponents but in here I am not ramping as hard and it cuts into coffers and such. Its a strong card but I have a hard time really feeling like I come out far ahead of my opponents when using it. The hand hate portion is probably one of the stronger sides of it since I actually dont care for the land removal part and creature removal isnt really a big deal for me. My issue with it overall is that it just seems to not quite have the synergy I was looking for with the list. It worked far better in my Varolz list where I was far out ramping my opponents to be honest.
Oathkeeper, Takeno's Daisho I just want to test it. My expectations arent really high by any means but it just seems so cool to me. I know its probably not that reasonable of a change but I want to just give it a shot and see what comes of it.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Baleful force seems horrible a vanilla 7/7 and a arena for 8 and worse they are stapled together. Sheild red cost 1 less gets you double value a turn and price your general. If you want card promise of power curves in at 5 and can draw 5 and give you a larger body and no one can kill your card draw.
Baleful force seems horrible a vanilla 7/7 and a arena for 8 and worse they are stapled together. Sheild red cost 1 less gets you double value a turn and price your general. If you want card promise of power curves in at 5 and can draw 5 and give you a larger body and no one can kill your card draw.
I will admit to having yet to ever having seen Baleful in hand or in play so I really cannot defend him at this time. I included him in part just because creatures and instants are the easiest things to abuse in this deck. I agree that promise of power is an incredible spell and its possible I might just go that direction but I wanted to test him. Sometimes you just have to force questionable things into your list and play them for the experience yourself is sort of my opinion. I am trying to work this up to be a primer so I am also trying to rotate my list a bit and try some new things just so I can at least say I have tried them.
As for the other changes I recently made, I got in two games last night so here is my results of that testing:
Jet Medallion - I got it out once and it was amazing. I happened to have had Necropotence rolling at the time as well to refill my hand but it was giving me like 3 mana a turn in a lot of cases. I dont have that much testing in with it yet but it seems like a great add so far.
Batterskull I got this up and rolling both games. The first one I got swarmed by 8/8 tokens by like turn 7 though so it wasn't much of a game but overall this gave me a lot of extra life as well as a great offensive / defensive measure. I was fueling necropotence with it and it was great.
Oathkeeper, Takeno's Daisho it mostly didn't matter but I forced myself to get it into play one game and put it on. Its a cool card but nothing amazing so far. I want to test it a little longer but am skeptical of it I guess. It just seems like such a cool on flavor card though that I want it to be great but its probably never going to be. I will keep it in for a little longer though.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I got a little more testing in last night. I have only played this deck in the last two weeks of EDH games so I am trying to get my testing in with a lot of the new additions still. Of the two games last night, one of them ended when someone ended up smashing with like 15 guys with Craterhoof Behemoth backed by Avacyn on like turn 8. He literally just ramped into Avacyn and nobody could answer it then proceeded to mass tokens with Rhys and tutor / smash craterhoof. It was a super lame situation considering I was mono black and there was a mono red also at the table so our chances to answer Avacyn were not great. I had also had to blow an Oblivion Stone with Avacyn out as the red player tried getting 40+ goblins + Goblin Bombardment and I blew it as he went to get another 20+ goblins from Krenko as I didn't want to die to that. In game two, I tutored into Necropotence and rode the value train through the whole game. I lost it after like 8 turns with it in but it was enough to do the job and I smashed my opponents with three Cabal Coffers set up over two turns. From there I just looped a Kokusho several times but I also got trolled by my opponents who reiterated my attempt to Grim Return. I then killed his rezed Kokusho and ran into an instant speed hand wheel thanks to the red player with Orrery in play, from here I attempted to flash back my Grim Return with Toshiro to get my Kokusho back just to encounter a Grim Return of the BW player's lolz. I played a Corpse Dance with buyback in response to his attempt to return him though to push through. We got hand wheeled yet again by the red player when I got done with this. From here I dropped a Rune-Scarred Demon and fetched up my Crypt Rats (I had like 80 life to the 15s and one 34). I blew the crypt rat up for 34 damage exactly with all my remaining mana to end the game (lolz three coffers).
Breakdown of Recent Adds:
Sheoldred, Whispering One I ended up getting her twice in the games I did yesterday. I happened to be against a lot of token tactics making her edicts matter a lot less which is unfortunate. I did do an end of turn Necromancy on her once though and she did ok overall. I didn't see anything ridiculous so far but she wasn't bad I guess. I need more testing overall as both times I got her in play she did do a rez for me but the first time I cast her for 7 mana and she rezed a Solemn Simulacrum and killed a Crypt Ghast and proceeded to get Oblivion Stoned off the table and the second time she was reanimated just for a rez on my turn. I am going to keep testing but I want to see a little more overall as it stands. The high token counts in my meta dont help her unfortunately. I also did not really get to utilize her edicts with Toshiro which is one of the assets here I think that needs to be tested.
Jet Medallion I did not see it last night but the testing from last week went very well for it. I chain spells together often enough that I really like this one. The idea of multi chaining 4 mana buyback Corpse Dances sounds great as well.
Phyrexian Reclamation I have seen it a few times, last night it was drawn right at the end of the game where my issue was more of sac outlets as people kept tucking my Alter of Dementia (they did it twice... Oblation / Chaos Warp). I need more testing but its ability to be used multiple times in quick succession is really nice. I havent really found it gamebreaking yet but its a good card and I need to test it more. Its only real downside is that its mana intensive as I have to recast the creatures as well as I already have a lot of grave dependancne and grave rez so when seeing it with another grave rez effect at the same time I often want the cheaper abuse direction. More testing is needed but I overall like the card.
Umezawa's Jitte I got it last night and cleared out a Aven Mindcensor / Weathered Wayfarer + flashed back a Vampiric Tutor all on turn 5 with it. Unfortunately the player with the wayfarer happened to go get a Maze of Ith which he then proceeded to never let me swing out with the Jitte again but it was extremely effective right then and there and it would have been sort of crazy value all around assuming he had not acted defensively with his tutor . Overall I have been happy with my testing with the Jitte though and the versatile instant speed removal options have been great for me.
Crypt Rats I have literally not drawn this guy yet. The only time I have seen him was the last game of last night where I tutored for him to use him like a face fireball effect. He was great in that situation though and I have had him in other decks and love the timing options he gives me. Being that this deck has turned into yet another siphon style of deck it fits the theme well even though he is generally punching me as well.
Baleful Force I have yet to see it... I will hold out until I get to see it in action though for now.
Crypt Ghast I have yet to see it, I will hold out until then to make judgements.
Oathkeeper, Takeno's Daisho it was a little underwhelming in the one game I saw it. I want to test a little longer though as I think its a cool card but I am assuming it wont make the cut but I want to test a bit longer.
Batterskull it was really solid on offense and defense. It allowed me to really commit a lot less to play as well not to mention the fact that I tend to try to keep up mana for emergencies anyways which was good for keeping its bounce as an option.
Some things that I am keeping an eye on offhand:
Dust Bowl there have been a few more times where I have been having troubles with lands of late. I really hate Homeward Path and had to play around that quite a bit last night. Tower of the Magistrate can also be a little frustrating with some of the equipment that I added into the list. In the situation where I had 3x Coffers, two of my opponents copied them as well which was a little annoying. There are plenty of annoying lands and while this isn't cheap to activate I might consider adding it to my list.
Strip Mine I noticed I am not running a strip mine in here. I dont know if I also lack it in my actual list or not but I was annoyed with lands last night. I am thinking I need a second land answer in list right now for sure. Its likely to be this assuming I dont already have it in my actual list.
Diamond Valley I have wanted more sac outlets as my opponents seem to target mine a bit. I have had issues with Miren, the Moaning Well in the fact that its activation cost is so high I rarely want to rely on it as an actual sac outlet. This has the downside of not tapping for mana but serves as a more reliable sac. I am thinking about rotating the Mirran out one way or another possibly for the Strip Mine and possibly for this. I have an issue cutting lands that tap for mana for lands that dont though.
Echoing Decay with my continued annoyance with token decks it becomes a little more likely that I increase the number of token hate style effects in my list. Bile Blight has been functioning fairly well so far so I am tempted to double down on it and see how it goes. I want my answers to be cheap and instant speed / instants when possible. It seems like tokens tend to be the thing that do me in so this is still a good answer option.
Well, with more testing goes more changes. I have wanted more land removal so that's where I am going with this change. I was about to cut the Oathkeeper but then I randomly had a heads up game yesterday where it was super effective. I think I will just wait a bit longer before I make a decision on it as its still a really cool card so more testing will sort of dictate its fate.
DECK CHANGE:
Miren, the Moaning Well -> Strip Mine Miren was a little more expensive to activate than I ever really wanted it to be. I might need to pick up another sac outlet just sort of in general but Miren wasn't working that well for me. As of right now I think that the next sac outlet I am considering with be either Diamond Valley or one of the two mana alters. For right now though, I think I need the extra land removal outlet in deck.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Yeah. I truly recommend getting a Diamond Valley, it has performed me as a sac outlet (though in another deck, but still). I too considered getting one for this one too, but thanks to Reserved List, getting (another) one can be quite painful.
So, Jet Medallion has performed quite well for you, right? I've been pondering whether or not I should get one for my Toshiro too...
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Yeah. I truly recommend getting a Diamond Valley, it has performed me as a sac outlet (though in another deck, but still). I too considered getting one for this one too, but thanks to Reserved List, getting (another) one can be quite painful.
So, Jet Medallion has performed quite well for you, right? I've been pondering whether or not I should get one for my Toshiro too...
I own a Diamond Valley that I am not currently using so its really not a money issue for me to add it so much as a cut issue. I will probably try it at some point but it seems like what I need more is a reusable sac outlet as when I go off I tend to loop creatures with the addition of reusable rez effects. I go back and forth on what it is I would want to add due to that but since the valley also doesn't really tap for mana its a bit harder to get in here since I need the repeat sac option. I go back and forth quite a bit on it though lol.
Jet Medallion - I have only seen it once so far but it was regularly giving me several mana a turn. Its really great with Null Profusion as you can just run away with that or Corpse Dance. I found a lot of situations where it was giving me multiple mana a turn and if you are chaining spells with Toshiro it helps there as well. I was quite impressed by it the time I had it in play. This deck is heavy black and does quite a bit of spell chaining.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I played a few more games last night and I was constantly hurting for repeatable sac outlets. I won one game and lost one game last night but the one that I lost was because I was doing well and so I got mauled by a Márton Stromgald + 9 hastey tokens (I had no removal in hand). The second game I ended up cutting everyone down fairly well with a Grey Merchant that I hit into play twice in a turn thanks to Corpse Dance but the dang sac outlets were absolutely killing me last night as I didn't see any of my land based ones and I couldn't stick my repeatable ones. I ended up finishing that game using Corpse Dance to bring back Crypt Rats like 3 turns in a row burning the rat for like 15-20 each time to keep my opponents board from killing me and relying on my buffer life total. Crypt Ghast did some work last night as well as he gave me a ton of extra mana as well as giving me a bunch of extorting which helped to clear out my opponents. Sheoldred has also somehow not been drawing me all that much hate which is nice. Overall testing is going well but I need some sac outlets.
DECK CHANGE:
Oathkeeper, Takeno's Daisho -> Phyrexian Altar I have seen the Oathkeeper several times and most of the time I end up ditching it to a wheel or too big of a hand. Its too much mana to manage getting it into play and I have been hurting on sac outlets which is sort of the other side of what you want with it anyways. I need the sac outlets for other things as well though. I considered between Ashnod's Altar and Phyrexian and I think I like the idea of colored mana more than the colorless but we will see with some testing.
In other news, Tendrils of Corruption has been sort of a pain in my ass a few times now due to the 4 mana cost and limitation based on swamps. Last night I ran into a situation that I was staring down Gisela, Blade of Goldnight as a commander and the fact that it did damage hurt a lot there. I am not doing anything right now so much as just saying its sort of on my radar as a questionable card right now. The lifegain on Tendrils is nice but the amount of mana I need to sink into it has been annoying and its been questionable on its ability to kill in a few situations already.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Not much to report but I got primer status for this list. Plenty of more testing needs to happen as there are a lot of cards on my radar that I am considering getting into the list assuming I can make room.
Ashnod's Altar more sac outlets seem to be necessary but I dont know how many I need. We will see how the one mana altar does in the list and see if we need both or not.
Yawgmoth's Will people keep blowing up my artifacts and protection for coffers is always nice as well. The hard part about this card in here though is I have so many things I abuse already from the grave and my graveyard is already such a target I am a little sketchy on it.
Echoing Decay tokens have remained sort of an issue for me and this deals with them nicely on my schedule. It also still works just fine on ETB / utility guys allowing me to flash back other things if necessary starting with this.
Diamond Valley the one real thing that's holding me back is that it doesn't tap for mana without urborg in play meaning it cant really take a land slot in my mind if I were to add it. When looking at cutting a nonland for a sac outlet though I get the feeling I would rather have one of the alters. I like sac outlet lands but this deck tends to require mass sacrifices in a turn when I get the wheels churning.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I had a game last night that was nice in the fact that I just saw a ton of the newly added cards over the course of the game. It was sort of a crazy game as it was a 3 player game and it was me playing mono black, my opponents were playing BW and UB so it was sort of awkward that we had sort of relatively little for artifact / enchantment destruction and the BW deck got out a Mimic Vat with a Fleshbag Marauder on it for several turns until I tutored for an Oblivion Stone to stop that madness. I ended up dipping down to like 7 life and had to deal with an opposing Erebos but I lucked into my Karn Liberated just for him. I attempted to smash a Gary for a devotion of like 10 to walk into an instant speed Austere Command (Vedalken Orrery) that cleared me back to a devotion of 3 for him lol. I ended up digging my way out though with Crypt Ghast + Null Profusion lol. Its probably the most gametime I have seen so far with Crypt Ghast and I was very impressed as he gave me a ton of life as I think I went from 13 to 25 in about a turn off of his extort effects in a three player game. I finished the game off with a Crypt Rats and 30 mana up to burn my opponents out.
From this game though I did finally see Baleful Force and was less impressed by him. He is unfortunately just less good than most other draw options I seem to run in deck so I think I will be cutting him.
DECK CHANGE:
Baleful Force -> Echoing Decay I have been running Bile Blight for a while and it has been really good for me so far. I like that the decay still works just fine against non token decks whereas some things like Consume the Meek cost a lot of mana and can be very bad when you aren't up against the tokens. I want to give it a spin and see how things go for me.
Also a big Toshi fan here and this thread only helped make mine better: I'll have to post my list when I get home. I built it before I ever saw your thread as more of a combo build, but did end up modifying it to fit the reanimator theme in.
The one thing I wanted to say is that, while I agree with you on the non-black clause for removal, Snuff Out is the one major exception to that. Since Toshi doesn't give flashback, but merely says that you can cast target spell, Snuff Out can chain off itself for free. 8 life isn't too steep with all of the lifegain in Toshi and it's been a game-changer to simply take 8 and take out two important creatures.
Also a big Toshi fan here and this thread only helped make mine better: I'll have to post my list when I get home. I built it before I ever saw your thread as more of a combo build, but did end up modifying it to fit the reanimator theme in.
The one thing I wanted to say is that, while I agree with you on the non-black clause for removal, Snuff Out is the one major exception to that. Since Toshi doesn't give flashback, but merely says that you can cast target spell, Snuff Out can chain off itself for free. 8 life isn't too steep with all of the lifegain in Toshi and it's been a game-changer to simply take 8 and take out two important creatures.
I agree that it can be a really nice one. I think its more important in a more combo based meta though as well. It depends on how much you end up tapping out as well and how relevant a no mana removal effect is going to make or break the game for you. The only real advantage to it is the life for casting it option so if you plan on keeping up mana for removal its less relevant. It can also be a bit of a meta call as to how often you need to kill a black creature as to how effective it can end up being.
I think it is a bit more of a meta and or playstyle dependent sort of card but it can be quite solid.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Congrats on Primer Status. I found two cards sifting through my stuff earlier that I thought I might mention here since neither really synergize with my current mono-black list.
Urborg Justice - Not sure how relevant this will be for your list. Seems pretty situational but I like how big of a swing it can give.
Congrats on Primer Status. I found two cards sifting through my stuff earlier that I thought I might mention here since neither really synergize with my current mono-black list.
Urborg Justice - Not sure how relevant this will be for your list. Seems pretty situational but I like how big of a swing it can give.
Urborg Justice - its interesting but I feel like it belongs more in a token / gravepact style of deck. It is dependent on loosing creatures which is sort of unfortunate. I think a basic edict effect is probably just as effective. The whole point of something like this is mostly to get hexproof / shroud / indestructible out of the way but even an edict can be used twice thanks to Toshiro. I think it is interesting but the pre-requisite feels sort of heavy for my own build as it stands. I see potential for it being a blow out assuming you were to loose 2-3 creatures and cast it with flashback but it feels like it hits too late to work well for me. I also have been having issues with my sac outlets of late which it sort of wants established to work.
Ritual of the Machine - Most of the time I want sacrifice outlets that I can utilize at instant speed and are repeatable. It is an interesting card but Helm of Possession could get me the same effect for a little more mana while opening it up as instant speed sac / steal which I think would be even more powerful. If this was an instant and I could flash it back with Toshiro I would probably consider running it but without the synergy of being able to double cast it its only as effective as an artifact or enchantment.
They are both interesting old cards but I dont know if I would run them in my current build. I see some potential in the Urborg Justice but it feels like I would need a very specific sort of board setup for it to be better than Diabolic Edict or some other edict.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I just thought I would mention, I think I will be testing out a few cards in here going forward.
Bazaar of Baghdad its potentially really powerful as it allows me to filter reanimation targets into the grave at instant speed and since I build around reusing creatures and spells it seems like a powerful effect. Due to its price tag though I really want to be 100% sure that I want to buy this before I bit the bullet but I see a lot of potential for it to be extremely powerful. Obviously the downsides here are A) it doesnt provide mana so its taking up a spell slot B) it costs a ton of cash.
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale I dont have all that many creatures generally speaking and I think it really hinders some of the big token wave style of decks. I have a lot of good spot removal vs them as well but its got potential to give me death triggers regularly and keep people in check that are trying to run swarm tactics on me. Its primary issue is that it doesnt tap for mana without urborg and its price but I already own one so I can just deck swap / proxy it between the decks.
Assuming these lands end up testing well I might even devote slots to Yawgmoth's Will / Crucible of Worlds / Expedition Map as well. For now I just thought I would mention that I am going to spend some time testing them and see how they work for me.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Time for set reviews. I will just nail them down as I can.
M15 Set Review:
Feast on the Fallen flavorful card. Its a little slow though really in implementation and more suited for a voltron style of build. I think its a cool card but more from a flavor standpoint than an actual doing something standpoint.
In Garruk's Wake its another Plague Wind but it hits walkers too. Walkers haven't ever been that much of a problem for me though. I think its overly expensive and not that useful as sort of a general feeling on these effects.
Necromancer's Stockpile from a standpoint of giving all of your creatures cycling it is very interesting. Its cool that it has extra value for zombies but I wouldnt bother building arround that because tribal decks tend to be weaker approaches.
Ob Nixilis, Unshackled this guy is like a roundhouse kick to green decks lol. I honestly might have to test him because he punches really hard on search and this is a life siphoning deck so it sort of puts opponents who take his damage that much closer to dying. Its hard to not have search effects in most EDH decks so it should punish tutor and ramp decks. I am a bit optimistic that he could be good. Obviously if he had flash like Hushwing Gryff I would be that much happier but sometimes you just have to take what you can get.
Unmake the Graves so... 2 cards from grave back to hand at instant speed. I honestly dont often have two things I really want back and it requires two targets and they just go to hand. Its not the type of rez I really want for this deck.
Waste Not its possible to add this to a discard heavy build. It doesn't fit my own current list but I could see some good value if you have a lot of discard built in.
Perilous Vault it deals with gods, walkers, artifacts, and enchantments. It covers a lot of bases that mono black has issues with which is nice. Its downsides being that its even more expensive to drop and pop than Oblivion Stone and doesn't have the ability to shield targets from its effect. Its something worth considering especially if you are having issues with gods and other things that black has issues with. I like that its a thing to consider for this deck. I dont know where I stand on it right now as it is a ton of mana to drop and activate but its an answer to one of our weaknesses which is a good thing. It is worth consideration is I guess all I can say right now.
Soul of New Phyrexia it seems like a decent effect for a draw go style of deck like this and the fact that we can mill into him and still get utility seems just fine and dandy. Of my decks, this is the one where it feels like he is probably the most likely of seeing some testing. I think its a decent effect for mono black especially since I seem to generate big blocks of mana regularly and I could potentially sac him out of exile removal / have mana to activate him at instant speed. I will be optimistic for now I suppose and say that this is likely the most reasonable deck for me to test him in assuming I am going to try him anywhere. He is super mana intensive but kind of cool still.
The actual black stuff was a little underwhelming but thats to be expected since its been too powerful in standard for a while now. Ob Nixilis, Unshackled, Perilous Vault, and Soul of New Phyrexia seem like the highlights for this list as far as things I would consider and I think Necromancer's Stockpile and Waste Not are possibilities in the right list / build. We sadly got really little as far as spells went in this set but some interesting things to consider still for those willing to do some testing.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I think Perilous Vault could find a home in pretty much any mono colored EDH deck. The rest of this set probably offers little to no benefit to your current build, as you pointed out
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Current EDH Generals:
Animar (Combo >Eldrazi)
Drana (Vamp tribal + big mana)
Vorel (WiP)
Arcanis (Stealy/Combo)
Toshiro (removal.Dek)
Thada (Stealy/ramp/control)
Derevi (WiP)
Kaalia (Fatty)
Teysa (Combo)
Karador (ETB/LTB Reanimate)
Mirko Vosk (Land grind/mill)
Geth (Discard/Gravecasting)
Rhada (Pro blue homebrew)
Oloro (Pillow fort mp)
And about 10 more...
I think Perilous Vault could find a home in pretty much any mono colored EDH deck. The rest of this set probably offers little to no benefit to your current build, as you pointed out
In my mind, Perilous Vault provides the most value to black, red, and green who have weaknesses in what they can answer. I feel like black and green are likely the ones that benefit the most from it since they tend to be good at most things other than what this does which really shores up their weaknesses. White has access to do more or less everything that this does and its weakness tends to be card draw and blue can just do everything so its sort of a wash.
Its not surprising that black didn't get a lot in this set though as they have been sort of running away with standard for a while now.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Recently made Toshiro Umezawa, and one of my favorite interactions I found in a match today was swing with toshiro, hatred, disciple of bolas for 21 cards and life (overall +2 life). From there, have all the kill spells and such necessary to keep people in check till you can hatred or some such thing again.
Recently made Toshiro Umezawa, and one of my favorite interactions I found in a match today was swing with toshiro, hatred, disciple of bolas for 21 cards and life (overall +2 life). From there, have all the kill spells and such necessary to keep people in check till you can hatred or some such thing again.
I am glad you like it. Hatred is one of those things I go back and forth with just because of the amount of life I have to pay in to make it work. I like the theory behind it but I often have to kill everyone in my meta and its often everyone trying to kill me which makes it a little harder to use for me. I like the idea of using it a little more in an online game where you will likely draw a lot less... hatred .
EDIT: people in my meta also run a lot more maze effects. They also wouldn't think twice about saving someone else and putting me out of 20 life. I honestly dont understand the logic much at all but people would rather there be more people still in game to kill me with... its a *****ty mentality for me but I had exactly this happen a few weeks ago where someone hit a fog effect to keep someone else in the game and just kingmakered that guy instead of letting me kill him.
Under circumstances like that, I probably wouldn't run it either. My group(s) will gladly let someone die unless they need that person for some reason (say, for example, that person is some how keeping another problem player in check for them)and they don't run many maze effects nor any fog effects. Do have to be careful about swinging with hatred when I don't have a redirect and they have mana open for kill spells though.
Honestly, one of the main reasons I run it is because it gives me a win con, without it I think my deck pretty much doesn't really have a win con, just win through pure attrition. I had one game where I won by getting Karn Liberated out and just exiling a threat or two and cards from hand repeatedly because they couldn't do anything about it, then just swinging with Toshiro w/ his jitte a few times. That game Karn ended up with loyalty above 20 but I had no reason to ult.
Under circumstances like that, I probably wouldn't run it either. My group(s) will gladly let someone die unless they need that person for some reason (say, for example, that person is some how keeping another problem player in check for them)and they don't run many maze effects nor any fog effects. Do have to be careful about swinging with hatred when I don't have a redirect and they have mana open for kill spells though.
Honestly, one of the main reasons I run it is because it gives me a win con, without it I think my deck pretty much doesn't really have a win con, just win through pure attrition. I had one game where I won by getting Karn Liberated out and just exiling a threat or two and cards from hand repeatedly because they couldn't do anything about it, then just swinging with Toshiro w/ his jitte a few times. That game Karn ended up with loyalty above 20 but I had no reason to ult, lol.
My own list utilizes life siphoning quite a bit. I have ended a lot of games through looping Gray Merchant / Kokusho / Crypt Rats and just hitting everyone as hard as possible. My record to date with Gary is devotion 19 and I accumulated 11 of it the turn he hit lol.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
As a side note, the OP has been expanded QUITE A BIT in the last two days. The card options tab has been expanded quite a bit and mostly just needs follow up discussion on the cards. The strategy section has also been expanded quite a bit. I probably need another 4 hours or so to fill things in and just clean it up but its one step closer to being done.
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[Modern] Allies
DECK CHANGES:
Mindslicer -> Crypt Ghast I had been having a much harder time with the mindslicer than I had originally expected to. I do have some good solid value engines but it was too difficult to get him into play with a good value engine and execute hands. I love the slicer but for now I am going to try to move past him and test some other things. Crypt Ghast I earlier dismissed because of how frail he is but I think I am even more of a reanimator deck now than I had been in the past. I think the extort that he gives will be very good with toshiro's spell chaining as it gives me some life siphoning and access to tons of mana.
- Myojin of Night's Reach -> Sheoldred, Whispering One I have this love and hate relationship with myojin. The problem is that I cannot reanimate to bring it back well. I could regret this but I want to just make a change in the list and try something else. I have been interested in trying to bring Sheoldred back into the list for a while for more testing and it seems like as good a time as any to give her another shot.
- Mind Stone -> Jet Medallion just trying out a different stone. I see some potential to get a lot of mana gain from the Medallion which I really like. I like that the Mind Stone has the ability to cycle itself in play but I think there is room for more value out of the Medallion.
- Eye of Doom -> Oathkeeper, Takeno's Daisho ok yes I am being a little silly with this change but I just think its cool and flavorful and sometimes thats all you need in EDH to do something wacky. I like that I can put this on Toshiro and start beating in for 5 or defend myself with a creature that takes out X/6 creatures. Its a means to go offensive with Toshiro as well as a means to protect him to some degree as well. Its wacky and I might regret it but it just looks soooooo cool that I have to put it in at least for some testing.
- Tainted Strike -> Batterskull this deck really just wants to drag things out and survive and I think this card goes a long ways in a lot of cases to do that. Having just this on Toshiro gives me a combat monster on the ground. I generally dont even care if I am hitting players with him either because he still defends me and gains life in this case. The biggest pain is just keeping three mana up at like all times but having the batterskull in play seems like a means to just slow roll things at times.
- Death Cloud -> Phyrexian Reclamation I have gotten the cloud a few times and its mostly been more awkward than I had expected it to be. I think the Reclamation is a very strong effect in general and it has both quick uses and long term effects which is solid.
I apologize for doing so many changes in one shot but I just want to try some different angles and return to a few things that I might not have done justice. This does sort of shortcut some of my testing of some cards that I will have to come back to but I just feel like I want to be elsewhere at the moment so I will just go and test the things I want to
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Also, Oathkeeper seems a tad limited, considering it's only good on Toshiro and at least, I haven't really used Toshiro for attacking. To me, he's been more of an enchantment/token-blocked than actually a beater...
The only time when I want to hit with him is when I have Jitte and no other creatures...
Death Cloud - I honestly dont know what my ideal objective is with the card is my issue. I have seen it in hand like three times so far and once I used it like an Exsanguinate except that one person didn't die to it and managed to stabilize through even with Toshiro hitting him every turn (I still somehow managed to win but not by much). I had another game where it just sat in my hand all game with not much for creatures to actually need to remove with it. Most of the time I have a hard time really using it in a way where I come out ahead with the card. When I used to use it in my Varolz, the Scar-Striped deck I had SOOOOO much ramp that it was always easy to use it as a land handicap and just take out my opponents but in here I am not ramping as hard and it cuts into coffers and such. Its a strong card but I have a hard time really feeling like I come out far ahead of my opponents when using it. The hand hate portion is probably one of the stronger sides of it since I actually dont care for the land removal part and creature removal isnt really a big deal for me. My issue with it overall is that it just seems to not quite have the synergy I was looking for with the list. It worked far better in my Varolz list where I was far out ramping my opponents to be honest.
Oathkeeper, Takeno's Daisho I just want to test it. My expectations arent really high by any means but it just seems so cool to me. I know its probably not that reasonable of a change but I want to just give it a shot and see what comes of it.
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[Modern] Allies
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
I will admit to having yet to ever having seen Baleful in hand or in play so I really cannot defend him at this time. I included him in part just because creatures and instants are the easiest things to abuse in this deck. I agree that promise of power is an incredible spell and its possible I might just go that direction but I wanted to test him. Sometimes you just have to force questionable things into your list and play them for the experience yourself is sort of my opinion. I am trying to work this up to be a primer so I am also trying to rotate my list a bit and try some new things just so I can at least say I have tried them.
As for the other changes I recently made, I got in two games last night so here is my results of that testing:
Jet Medallion - I got it out once and it was amazing. I happened to have had Necropotence rolling at the time as well to refill my hand but it was giving me like 3 mana a turn in a lot of cases. I dont have that much testing in with it yet but it seems like a great add so far.
Batterskull I got this up and rolling both games. The first one I got swarmed by 8/8 tokens by like turn 7 though so it wasn't much of a game but overall this gave me a lot of extra life as well as a great offensive / defensive measure. I was fueling necropotence with it and it was great.
Oathkeeper, Takeno's Daisho it mostly didn't matter but I forced myself to get it into play one game and put it on. Its a cool card but nothing amazing so far. I want to test it a little longer but am skeptical of it I guess. It just seems like such a cool on flavor card though that I want it to be great but its probably never going to be. I will keep it in for a little longer though.
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[Modern] Allies
Breakdown of Recent Adds:
Sheoldred, Whispering One I ended up getting her twice in the games I did yesterday. I happened to be against a lot of token tactics making her edicts matter a lot less which is unfortunate. I did do an end of turn Necromancy on her once though and she did ok overall. I didn't see anything ridiculous so far but she wasn't bad I guess. I need more testing overall as both times I got her in play she did do a rez for me but the first time I cast her for 7 mana and she rezed a Solemn Simulacrum and killed a Crypt Ghast and proceeded to get Oblivion Stoned off the table and the second time she was reanimated just for a rez on my turn. I am going to keep testing but I want to see a little more overall as it stands. The high token counts in my meta dont help her unfortunately. I also did not really get to utilize her edicts with Toshiro which is one of the assets here I think that needs to be tested.
Jet Medallion I did not see it last night but the testing from last week went very well for it. I chain spells together often enough that I really like this one. The idea of multi chaining 4 mana buyback Corpse Dances sounds great as well.
Phyrexian Reclamation I have seen it a few times, last night it was drawn right at the end of the game where my issue was more of sac outlets as people kept tucking my Alter of Dementia (they did it twice... Oblation / Chaos Warp). I need more testing but its ability to be used multiple times in quick succession is really nice. I havent really found it gamebreaking yet but its a good card and I need to test it more. Its only real downside is that its mana intensive as I have to recast the creatures as well as I already have a lot of grave dependancne and grave rez so when seeing it with another grave rez effect at the same time I often want the cheaper abuse direction. More testing is needed but I overall like the card.
Umezawa's Jitte I got it last night and cleared out a Aven Mindcensor / Weathered Wayfarer + flashed back a Vampiric Tutor all on turn 5 with it. Unfortunately the player with the wayfarer happened to go get a Maze of Ith which he then proceeded to never let me swing out with the Jitte again but it was extremely effective right then and there and it would have been sort of crazy value all around assuming he had not acted defensively with his tutor . Overall I have been happy with my testing with the Jitte though and the versatile instant speed removal options have been great for me.
Crypt Rats I have literally not drawn this guy yet. The only time I have seen him was the last game of last night where I tutored for him to use him like a face fireball effect. He was great in that situation though and I have had him in other decks and love the timing options he gives me. Being that this deck has turned into yet another siphon style of deck it fits the theme well even though he is generally punching me as well.
Baleful Force I have yet to see it... I will hold out until I get to see it in action though for now.
Crypt Ghast I have yet to see it, I will hold out until then to make judgements.
Oathkeeper, Takeno's Daisho it was a little underwhelming in the one game I saw it. I want to test a little longer though as I think its a cool card but I am assuming it wont make the cut but I want to test a bit longer.
Batterskull it was really solid on offense and defense. It allowed me to really commit a lot less to play as well not to mention the fact that I tend to try to keep up mana for emergencies anyways which was good for keeping its bounce as an option.
Some things that I am keeping an eye on offhand:
Dust Bowl there have been a few more times where I have been having troubles with lands of late. I really hate Homeward Path and had to play around that quite a bit last night. Tower of the Magistrate can also be a little frustrating with some of the equipment that I added into the list. In the situation where I had 3x Coffers, two of my opponents copied them as well which was a little annoying. There are plenty of annoying lands and while this isn't cheap to activate I might consider adding it to my list.
Strip Mine I noticed I am not running a strip mine in here. I dont know if I also lack it in my actual list or not but I was annoyed with lands last night. I am thinking I need a second land answer in list right now for sure. Its likely to be this assuming I dont already have it in my actual list.
Diamond Valley I have wanted more sac outlets as my opponents seem to target mine a bit. I have had issues with Miren, the Moaning Well in the fact that its activation cost is so high I rarely want to rely on it as an actual sac outlet. This has the downside of not tapping for mana but serves as a more reliable sac. I am thinking about rotating the Mirran out one way or another possibly for the Strip Mine and possibly for this. I have an issue cutting lands that tap for mana for lands that dont though.
Echoing Decay with my continued annoyance with token decks it becomes a little more likely that I increase the number of token hate style effects in my list. Bile Blight has been functioning fairly well so far so I am tempted to double down on it and see how it goes. I want my answers to be cheap and instant speed / instants when possible. It seems like tokens tend to be the thing that do me in so this is still a good answer option.
/end block of text
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[Modern] Allies
DECK CHANGE:
Miren, the Moaning Well -> Strip Mine Miren was a little more expensive to activate than I ever really wanted it to be. I might need to pick up another sac outlet just sort of in general but Miren wasn't working that well for me. As of right now I think that the next sac outlet I am considering with be either Diamond Valley or one of the two mana alters. For right now though, I think I need the extra land removal outlet in deck.
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[Modern] Allies
So, Jet Medallion has performed quite well for you, right? I've been pondering whether or not I should get one for my Toshiro too...
I own a Diamond Valley that I am not currently using so its really not a money issue for me to add it so much as a cut issue. I will probably try it at some point but it seems like what I need more is a reusable sac outlet as when I go off I tend to loop creatures with the addition of reusable rez effects. I go back and forth on what it is I would want to add due to that but since the valley also doesn't really tap for mana its a bit harder to get in here since I need the repeat sac option. I go back and forth quite a bit on it though lol.
Jet Medallion - I have only seen it once so far but it was regularly giving me several mana a turn. Its really great with Null Profusion as you can just run away with that or Corpse Dance. I found a lot of situations where it was giving me multiple mana a turn and if you are chaining spells with Toshiro it helps there as well. I was quite impressed by it the time I had it in play. This deck is heavy black and does quite a bit of spell chaining.
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[Modern] Allies
DECK CHANGE:
Oathkeeper, Takeno's Daisho -> Phyrexian Altar I have seen the Oathkeeper several times and most of the time I end up ditching it to a wheel or too big of a hand. Its too much mana to manage getting it into play and I have been hurting on sac outlets which is sort of the other side of what you want with it anyways. I need the sac outlets for other things as well though. I considered between Ashnod's Altar and Phyrexian and I think I like the idea of colored mana more than the colorless but we will see with some testing.
In other news, Tendrils of Corruption has been sort of a pain in my ass a few times now due to the 4 mana cost and limitation based on swamps. Last night I ran into a situation that I was staring down Gisela, Blade of Goldnight as a commander and the fact that it did damage hurt a lot there. I am not doing anything right now so much as just saying its sort of on my radar as a questionable card right now. The lifegain on Tendrils is nice but the amount of mana I need to sink into it has been annoying and its been questionable on its ability to kill in a few situations already.
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[Modern] Allies
Ashnod's Altar more sac outlets seem to be necessary but I dont know how many I need. We will see how the one mana altar does in the list and see if we need both or not.
Yawgmoth's Will people keep blowing up my artifacts and protection for coffers is always nice as well. The hard part about this card in here though is I have so many things I abuse already from the grave and my graveyard is already such a target I am a little sketchy on it.
Echoing Decay tokens have remained sort of an issue for me and this deals with them nicely on my schedule. It also still works just fine on ETB / utility guys allowing me to flash back other things if necessary starting with this.
Diamond Valley the one real thing that's holding me back is that it doesn't tap for mana without urborg in play meaning it cant really take a land slot in my mind if I were to add it. When looking at cutting a nonland for a sac outlet though I get the feeling I would rather have one of the alters. I like sac outlet lands but this deck tends to require mass sacrifices in a turn when I get the wheels churning.
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[Modern] Allies
From this game though I did finally see Baleful Force and was less impressed by him. He is unfortunately just less good than most other draw options I seem to run in deck so I think I will be cutting him.
DECK CHANGE:
Baleful Force -> Echoing Decay I have been running Bile Blight for a while and it has been really good for me so far. I like that the decay still works just fine against non token decks whereas some things like Consume the Meek cost a lot of mana and can be very bad when you aren't up against the tokens. I want to give it a spin and see how things go for me.
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[Modern] Allies
The one thing I wanted to say is that, while I agree with you on the non-black clause for removal, Snuff Out is the one major exception to that. Since Toshi doesn't give flashback, but merely says that you can cast target spell, Snuff Out can chain off itself for free. 8 life isn't too steep with all of the lifegain in Toshi and it's been a game-changer to simply take 8 and take out two important creatures.
I agree that it can be a really nice one. I think its more important in a more combo based meta though as well. It depends on how much you end up tapping out as well and how relevant a no mana removal effect is going to make or break the game for you. The only real advantage to it is the life for casting it option so if you plan on keeping up mana for removal its less relevant. It can also be a bit of a meta call as to how often you need to kill a black creature as to how effective it can end up being.
I think it is a bit more of a meta and or playstyle dependent sort of card but it can be quite solid.
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[Modern] Allies
Urborg Justice - Not sure how relevant this will be for your list. Seems pretty situational but I like how big of a swing it can give.
Ritual of the Machine - Sac Kokusho and gain control of something permanently??
Avalon: The Legend Begins :: Pirate Set :: Babel: The Æther Wars
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[Primer] [Barrin's Tome]: A Master Wizard's Spellbook.
They are interesting cards.
Urborg Justice - its interesting but I feel like it belongs more in a token / gravepact style of deck. It is dependent on loosing creatures which is sort of unfortunate. I think a basic edict effect is probably just as effective. The whole point of something like this is mostly to get hexproof / shroud / indestructible out of the way but even an edict can be used twice thanks to Toshiro. I think it is interesting but the pre-requisite feels sort of heavy for my own build as it stands. I see potential for it being a blow out assuming you were to loose 2-3 creatures and cast it with flashback but it feels like it hits too late to work well for me. I also have been having issues with my sac outlets of late which it sort of wants established to work.
Ritual of the Machine - Most of the time I want sacrifice outlets that I can utilize at instant speed and are repeatable. It is an interesting card but Helm of Possession could get me the same effect for a little more mana while opening it up as instant speed sac / steal which I think would be even more powerful. If this was an instant and I could flash it back with Toshiro I would probably consider running it but without the synergy of being able to double cast it its only as effective as an artifact or enchantment.
They are both interesting old cards but I dont know if I would run them in my current build. I see some potential in the Urborg Justice but it feels like I would need a very specific sort of board setup for it to be better than Diabolic Edict or some other edict.
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[Modern] Allies
Bazaar of Baghdad its potentially really powerful as it allows me to filter reanimation targets into the grave at instant speed and since I build around reusing creatures and spells it seems like a powerful effect. Due to its price tag though I really want to be 100% sure that I want to buy this before I bit the bullet but I see a lot of potential for it to be extremely powerful. Obviously the downsides here are A) it doesnt provide mana so its taking up a spell slot B) it costs a ton of cash.
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale I dont have all that many creatures generally speaking and I think it really hinders some of the big token wave style of decks. I have a lot of good spot removal vs them as well but its got potential to give me death triggers regularly and keep people in check that are trying to run swarm tactics on me. Its primary issue is that it doesnt tap for mana without urborg and its price but I already own one so I can just deck swap / proxy it between the decks.
Assuming these lands end up testing well I might even devote slots to Yawgmoth's Will / Crucible of Worlds / Expedition Map as well. For now I just thought I would mention that I am going to spend some time testing them and see how they work for me.
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[Modern] Allies
M15 Set Review:
Feast on the Fallen flavorful card. Its a little slow though really in implementation and more suited for a voltron style of build. I think its a cool card but more from a flavor standpoint than an actual doing something standpoint.
In Garruk's Wake its another Plague Wind but it hits walkers too. Walkers haven't ever been that much of a problem for me though. I think its overly expensive and not that useful as sort of a general feeling on these effects.
Necromancer's Stockpile from a standpoint of giving all of your creatures cycling it is very interesting. Its cool that it has extra value for zombies but I wouldnt bother building arround that because tribal decks tend to be weaker approaches.
Ob Nixilis, Unshackled this guy is like a roundhouse kick to green decks lol. I honestly might have to test him because he punches really hard on search and this is a life siphoning deck so it sort of puts opponents who take his damage that much closer to dying. Its hard to not have search effects in most EDH decks so it should punish tutor and ramp decks. I am a bit optimistic that he could be good. Obviously if he had flash like Hushwing Gryff I would be that much happier but sometimes you just have to take what you can get.
Ulcerate its bad Dismember.... moving along.
Unmake the Graves so... 2 cards from grave back to hand at instant speed. I honestly dont often have two things I really want back and it requires two targets and they just go to hand. Its not the type of rez I really want for this deck.
Waste Not its possible to add this to a discard heavy build. It doesn't fit my own current list but I could see some good value if you have a lot of discard built in.
Perilous Vault it deals with gods, walkers, artifacts, and enchantments. It covers a lot of bases that mono black has issues with which is nice. Its downsides being that its even more expensive to drop and pop than Oblivion Stone and doesn't have the ability to shield targets from its effect. Its something worth considering especially if you are having issues with gods and other things that black has issues with. I like that its a thing to consider for this deck. I dont know where I stand on it right now as it is a ton of mana to drop and activate but its an answer to one of our weaknesses which is a good thing. It is worth consideration is I guess all I can say right now.
Soul of New Phyrexia it seems like a decent effect for a draw go style of deck like this and the fact that we can mill into him and still get utility seems just fine and dandy. Of my decks, this is the one where it feels like he is probably the most likely of seeing some testing. I think its a decent effect for mono black especially since I seem to generate big blocks of mana regularly and I could potentially sac him out of exile removal / have mana to activate him at instant speed. I will be optimistic for now I suppose and say that this is likely the most reasonable deck for me to test him in assuming I am going to try him anywhere. He is super mana intensive but kind of cool still.
The actual black stuff was a little underwhelming but thats to be expected since its been too powerful in standard for a while now. Ob Nixilis, Unshackled, Perilous Vault, and Soul of New Phyrexia seem like the highlights for this list as far as things I would consider and I think Necromancer's Stockpile and Waste Not are possibilities in the right list / build. We sadly got really little as far as spells went in this set but some interesting things to consider still for those willing to do some testing.
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[Modern] Allies
Animar (Combo >Eldrazi)
Drana (Vamp tribal + big mana)
Vorel (WiP)
Arcanis (Stealy/Combo)
Toshiro (removal.Dek)
Thada (Stealy/ramp/control)
Derevi (WiP)
Kaalia (Fatty)
Teysa (Combo)
Karador (ETB/LTB Reanimate)
Mirko Vosk (Land grind/mill)
Geth (Discard/Gravecasting)
Rhada (Pro blue homebrew)
Oloro (Pillow fort mp)
And about 10 more...
In my mind, Perilous Vault provides the most value to black, red, and green who have weaknesses in what they can answer. I feel like black and green are likely the ones that benefit the most from it since they tend to be good at most things other than what this does which really shores up their weaknesses. White has access to do more or less everything that this does and its weakness tends to be card draw and blue can just do everything so its sort of a wash.
Its not surprising that black didn't get a lot in this set though as they have been sort of running away with standard for a while now.
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[Modern] Allies
I am glad you like it. Hatred is one of those things I go back and forth with just because of the amount of life I have to pay in to make it work. I like the theory behind it but I often have to kill everyone in my meta and its often everyone trying to kill me which makes it a little harder to use for me. I like the idea of using it a little more in an online game where you will likely draw a lot less... hatred .
EDIT: people in my meta also run a lot more maze effects. They also wouldn't think twice about saving someone else and putting me out of 20 life. I honestly dont understand the logic much at all but people would rather there be more people still in game to kill me with... its a *****ty mentality for me but I had exactly this happen a few weeks ago where someone hit a fog effect to keep someone else in the game and just kingmakered that guy instead of letting me kill him.
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[Modern] Allies
Honestly, one of the main reasons I run it is because it gives me a win con, without it I think my deck pretty much doesn't really have a win con, just win through pure attrition. I had one game where I won by getting Karn Liberated out and just exiling a threat or two and cards from hand repeatedly because they couldn't do anything about it, then just swinging with Toshiro w/ his jitte a few times. That game Karn ended up with loyalty above 20 but I had no reason to ult.
My own list utilizes life siphoning quite a bit. I have ended a lot of games through looping Gray Merchant / Kokusho / Crypt Rats and just hitting everyone as hard as possible. My record to date with Gary is devotion 19 and I accumulated 11 of it the turn he hit lol.
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[Modern] Allies