Top is banned when using the French banlist (which I do and that's why Powerstone is considered at all over Mana Crypt or Sol Ring). Fire Diamond IMO is pretty much a toss against Powerstone, there are some arguments that you want to play it turn 2 to play Purphoros turn 3 and I'm fine with this but I personally prefer to be a little bit more greedy since I'm playing this deck a lot in multiplayer too and turn 3 Purphoros isn't really what you want in multiplayer (except if you really want to leave quickly lol).
I haven't updated this thread in months, I will have to take a look at new cards to see if there could be any change.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I was going through my cards looking for things with less than 3 CMC I could play to even out my curve a bit and I came across Aether Vial. Ever tried one of these in there? The ability to slip creatures into play from your hand for free at instant speed sounds fantastic but in practice I don't know how much use it would actually get.
PROS
Super cheap
Possibility of an extra creature at instant speed per turn
Could potentially be pretty game-changing at 3 or 4 counters
CONS
2 turn clock to do anything, 3 turn to really be where you want it
Basically doesn't weld other than swapping it in response to removal
Probably going to eat removal (although considering all the other artifacts I have that's actually not a horrible outcome)
I'm thinking of it as an alternative to a mana rock. I use the Worn Powerstone too and I'm really not in love with it. Idk about you but it sits like a rock on my curve, 3 to 4 is my sweet spot so while it is really nice if I can happen to pop out a turn 4 Caged Sun, Warstorm Surge or Chandra Ablaze on the back of the powerstone, it often seems like I might be better off looking at other alternatives. Fire diamond is pretty mediocre but I'm not sure the powerstone is worth the upgrade for me, scratching turn 2 to play 4 CMC guys on turn 3 sounds a lot better to me than scratching turn 3 to get to 6 early. I also occasionally find myself missing Druidic Satchel since I pulled it out. Probably not enough to put it back but it's really nice with a Scroll Rack or Sensei's Divining Top out there and not bad even without top deck help.
I stopped playing for a few months but I'm now back with Norin. I looked at the new sets of the last 12 months and found nothing really worthy to add to the deck. New red planeswalker is nice but doesn't really fit with the synergy of the deck. A few new goblins too, not bad but the list is already pretty tight, every card has been carefully chosen.
Hopefully we get a reprint of Goblin Settler someday. Imperial Recruiter too. Gauntlet of Might is unfortunaly on the reserve list. I'm looking at the deck right now and it's really expensive with those 3 cards adding up already to $500. Got a couple of $30 cards in here too.
Scroll Rack is a longtime considered card because of how mono-red draws cards (usually wheel/looting effects). It's only 2-cmc and I'd love to find room to playtest it. It's better than Teferi's Puzzle Box in many ways but not as chaotic (doesn't mess up with your opponents' tutors and don't forget the good synergy with Stingscourger), and you end up having access to the same cards if you can't shuffle. To play Scroll Rack, I think you need to add the 4 fetchlands. With fetchlands being reprinted, I really could consider this, I will have to give this a second tought.
EDIT: After some discussion with a friend of mine, Cloudstone Curio is probably the card to remove with 4 Mountains. The Puzzle Box mess up with the opponents' miracle triggers too and really fits the chaotic strategy overall. Cloudstone Curio doesn't, it's kind of a win-more card.
So... Removing:
- 4 Mountains
- Cloudstone Curio
Adding:
Scroll Rack
Wooded Foothills
Bloodstained Mire
Scalding Tarn
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
i reached the same conclusion with cloudstone curio as well, i just added mimic vat instead.
scroll rack is a good call, as i lack zendikar fetches for now, i'll try with 2 and 3 panoramas again - you might want to add madblind mountain too.
as for me, fetches means i need to get back into the deck crucible of worlds, even if just to test it.
First, that alt Noren is HILARIOUS. I think that's the funniest magic-related thing I've seen in a while, kudos.
I hate playing against chaos decks. If everything was automated, it would be fun but resolving triggers is always a 10+ minute ordeal once all the pieces are in play. So while I think this deck is probably a blast to pilot and fun in general, I don't enjoy playing against it for logistical reasons. Sweet list though, and I think Noren is perfect for a chaos build.
i reached the same conclusion with cloudstone curio as well, i just added mimic vat instead.
scroll rack is a good call, as i lack zendikar fetches for now, i'll try with 2 and 3 panoramas again - you might want to add madblind mountain too.
as for me, fetches means i need to get back into the deck crucible of worlds, even if just to test it.
Crucible of Worlds is banned under the French banlist, so this is a no for me since I want my "casual" decks to be legal in every official banlist (personal preference). But if you play it, also play Wasteland and Strip Mine, and Ghost Quarter is good too against those greedy 5 color decks (even 3 color decks tend not to play many basic lands).
Madblind Mountain isn't good enough as a compensation for the ETB tapped. I like to shuffle with Scroll Rack or even sometimes with Possibility Storm but tapped lands make a huge tempo difference sometimes. However, if you decide to play it, you probably have to play Sensei's Divining Top (another dual-commander banned card).
The new land in Commander 2014, Flamekin Village, is really interesting however. It enters the battlefield tapped if we don't reveal an elemental. However, it taps for red and taps (+R) to give haste to a creature (Moggcatcher and Krenko are really good targets). Funny enough, I play one elemental in Grinning Ignus and Lightning Crafter has been swapped a few times for Changeling Berserker because the latest can champion any creature in the deck, not only goblins (mostly Purphoros and Moggcatcher against board wipe/exile). The other advantage with the Berserker is the bigger body for the Pandemonium effect, haste, and now changeling, which means a second elemental.
It's really a coin toss, Kiki-Jiki is really good with the Crafter (and those 2 go infinite with Pandemonium, which is something I actually try to avoid (infinite combos)), and it's Lightning Bolt on a stick in a deck that doesn't tend to have a lot of targetted removal (except for Aftershock but that one is really versatile). However, the ability of the Berserker to champion Moggcatcher as an instant effect with Moggcatcher's own ability is really huge against board wipes, since Moggcatcher can completely ruin any board wipe by recovering in a turn or 2. Purphoros is another non-goblin creature (sometimes) and Myr Battlesphere can be good to abuse too. Finally, Ogre Battledriver which is a constant target once it is on the battlefield.
Mimic Vat is really good too, I don't play it because this card usually gets destroyed on sight and we don't have much to protect it (unlike Possibility Storm that protects itself), but it's a really powerful card, especially with Wurmcoil Engine, Myr Battlesphere and Goblin Welder (or any other creature in the deck really, with all those ETBs).
First, that alt Noren is HILARIOUS. I think that's the funniest magic-related thing I've seen in a while, kudos.
I hate playing against chaos decks. If everything was automated, it would be fun but resolving triggers is always a 10+ minute ordeal once all the pieces are in play. So while I think this deck is probably a blast to pilot and fun in general, I don't enjoy playing against it for logistical reasons. Sweet list though, and I think Noren is perfect for a chaos build.
Thank you. Norin though, not Noren ;p. As for the trigger part, I'm being really careful with every card I put in this deck to avoid any such crazy situation. I don't play Grip of Chaos or Radiate (against or with Chaos Warp, lol) especially because of this. I try to avoid Thieves' Auction too because it is really long to resolve in a 4-player game and there are a lot of triggers with all the ETB (and you have to keep count of what card enters first because it may be important to know what will trigger Pandemonium). The only "complicated" card really is Warp World, but the way it is worded, it's actually easier than it looks, since all the enchantments enter the battlefield AFTER the other cards... so no Pandemonium effects, only the usual ETB of the creatures and maybe some Genesis Chamber (and the tokens will trigger the enchantments' ETB but it's not too much complicated at that point).
But thanks for your comment. You definitely need to know very well how the game works to pilot cards like Warp World, but when you do and when you know every card in the deck and how every card works, it's usually going really fast. (but yeah, there will be situations where your opponents' permanents are actually the problem.)
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Also, Sculpting Steel is a card I really miss playing, this card is so amazing, 3 mana for sometimes so much, and it's good with Welder too. It's never dead in the format. The list is pretty tight right now, even swapping a land is hard.
I don't know if Relic of Progenitus is much of a necessity, it kills our own graveyard and I have nothing to tutor it except Gamble. If I'm playing against a competitive reanimator, I'm already losing anyway, and if not, Norin just does his thing and doesn't care too much about what's happening else.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
yeah, i'm still thinking outside of the french banlist, at least for norin. the elemental haste land is juicy, but i won't alter the deck to have more elementals (i'm still waiting for just another awesome elemental to be printed to add ingot chewer and the elemental tutor to the deck, which would incidentally help with the elemental count).
agreed with both sculpting steel and relic of progenitus - norin can't reliably fight gy decks on his own, one card we can't tutor won't make a difference.
i agree there are good elementals around - just not as good as the spots they would use would require them to be. right now i would feel safer using them in purphoros, seeing that grinning ignus is a win condition there.
just give red a good tutor for artifacts and i will have sculpting steel in there at once. as is, i run just one card that doesn't do anything by itself, and that is liquimetal coating, which is going to see its way out of the deck pretty soon in jaya's stead.
Thanks for the great idea. I also think that adding the Elemental package means less goblins, which means a completely different deck in the end, but there are really solid elementals and Stigma Lasher is pretty good with Pandemonium (doesn't need combat damage, same for the Wither keyword). All those elementals are actually good in the deck.
For now, the only change would be:
-1 Relic of Progenitus
+1 Sculpting Steel
But I'm still considering that new land, I will have to playtest it (even with only 1-2 elemental in the deck).
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Well, what about Krenko and Chieftain? Man... with Pandemonium... and Goblin Assasin... they are all honestly really good in multiplayer lol, I'm winning matches with Moggcatcher alone. But yeah, without Kiki-Jiki, this is definitely not the same thing at all.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
EOT tap Moggcatcher to get Kiki, copy Moggcatcher, tap the 2nd Moggcatcher to get Chieftain.
Untap, tap Moggcatcher #1 to get Krenko, tap Moggcatcher #2 to get Siege-Gang Commander, tap Kiki to copy Moggcatcher again if you have enough mana to get Goblin Marshal, if you don't, just copy Chieftain, then tap Krenko, make 9 more goblin tokens that are either 2/2s or 3/3s if you have 2 Chieftain or any more support (Gauntlets) and swing usually for lethal (and that's if you don't have Purphoros, Pandemonium or Warstorm Surge).
I mean, yeah, this deck can be REALLY good without goblins, but don't tell me it's not good, because it really is. The sorcery cards you are talking about are cards played in a Purphoros deck and it's a completely different deck.
I know I'm kind of prisonner of my theme/synergy because I could decide to not play the new land just because the word "elemental" is written on it. So at the end, I'm not playing the most optimized version of the deck and I know that, that's my decision, I'm playing this deck as a casual chaos deck to have fun and different games than what players usually see in their playgroups. Gaka's take on this deck is more competitive with the stax package for sure. For me, the thematic is really important in a non-competitive EDH deck, but that's just me. That's why I have an altered Norin, and not because it is actually better.
I would be interested to see a completely different version with Elemental instead of Goblins. That, I think, could be really interesting in my point of view and still play really well with Norin.
Also, my friend was trying to convince me to add the new planeswalker or the new 2/2 creature (Dualcaster) that Fork a spell. I decided not to in both cases. For the Planeswalker, you have to discard before you draw. It costs 4. The second ability is the same as Goblin Welder. So, it is either a really really bad Faitless Looting, or just a bad Goblin Welder. And you're not getting to the ultimate anytime soon (not that you really want to). About the new creature, it's not a goblin (that would be completely different if it was), and I'm already thinking that Reiterate is the next card to go out, overall I rarely buy it back and rarely find something really useful to copy.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Being an instant win isn't an upside but a downside when you are playing a casual deck in a non-combo meta. Lightning Crafter + Kiki-Jiki with some ETB (Pandemonium) is already barely tolerable, but since it is really hard to assemble (and the deck really doesn't focus on that), I'm still playing it. You could argue that Moggcatcher is kind of a combo by itself, but it's really more complicated than that and really far away from being an instant win, you have multiple ways to stop it. Same for Koth's emblem (resolving that ultimate is probably the most instant win you could ever get with my list, but that's still take a lot of preparation to get here).
World of Seizing is a really surprising card and blue mages definitely don't like it. That's a beautiful 13 loyalty counters you have on that Jace! Same with Karn's ultimate, this is just game over if it's not countered, and split second should be more than enough.
But if your meta is fine with infinite combos, Zealous Conscript is in 95% cases better, so feel free to play it. I just always felt that the deck would be more about getting the combo than actually playing all the funny and synergic cards.
For the Planeswalker, at 4-cmc it ain't Koth, the -2 isn't really that great since it ends up at 1 loyalty after that, and Welder is also reusable and don't forget Chieftain, Anger, Kiki-Jiki and Battledriver as haste enablers.
Faithless Looting costs 4 to let you draw 4 and discard 4 and can be played on turn 1. It is definitely better than a 4-cmc discard then draw (and Rummaging Goblin is still here), and Welder is in most cases better too and it's 1 mana and can be found with Moggcatcher or Recruiter. Honestly, I really don't understand all the hype around it, you take 2 good cards that cost 1-cmc and make them bad (or at least worse) to add some versatility (actually, Faithless Looting is still more versatile)... I mean, it's not enough to make it a good card. You can playtest it, but I don't even see this as a good card in my casual list and you seem to play a more competitive list than mine.
Drawing first is really huge for a looting. Welder and Faithless Looting both see play in eternal formats. That 4-cmc Planeswalker will never do and there is a reason for that. Faithless Looting makes a really bad opener keepable because you know you can play it on turn 1 and cycle through your deck, get that 3rd land and flashback it if really needed. And I'm not even arguing (yet) that Welder can mess with your opponents' artifacts...
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
If I don't add Flamekin Village, we could argue about Myriad Landscape. With Gauntlets and Valakut, we like having more mountains. But does it justify the ETB tapped? I don't think it does, but YMMV.
Arcane Lighthouse is like Tower of the Magistrate in the fact that it can be useful against some really specific deck/card, but not enough to warrant a permanent spot if your meta doesn't specifically justify it.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Most of Norin curve is at 4. That land needs 3 mana to ramp to 4, which means we have 5 instead of 4 on turn 4 and we lost 2 turns doing so.
I won't be playing it but as I said, YMMV, this is a meta call. I really think tempo is important in this format and especially in Norin, you need to be able to resolve your spells and for that, you need to be ready whenever your opponents finally decide to play their own spells and let their guard down. But Valakut and Koth both likes mountains: the more you have the better.
For the Planeswalker, you are still talking about taking 2 good cards to make it, but it's not true: again, the first ability is way worse than Faithless Looting and the 2nd ability is way worse than Welder. In fact, we shouldn't even talk about any added versatility because this card has less overall.
Legacy likes 1-cmc but Welder is actually more played in Vintage where 5 and 6-cmc permanents are abundant. He's that good, he messes up with your opponents' permanents.
I won't argue anymore on that, end of debate for me, I feel like I covered up pretty much every aspect of it and of what makes this a terrible card overall. Actually, all the 5 new Planeswalker aren't really that good, but that's okay if people want to play those. You say that eternal formats don't play 4 cmc Planeswalker but Koth has seen a lot of play, Jace obviously, Liliana and Karn too. the Elspeths too, even Gideons and Garruks (maybe not the 6 and 7-cmc editions). It all depends on the abilities. Jace has 4, but notice how his Brainstorm ability isn't just a bad worded Brainstorm: it is actually a Brainstorm. Tibalt is bad, why? Because his first ability is also a bad worded Looting. Goblin Welder will probably never be printed again in standard because it is way too powerful and the ruling on that card is nearly a mess, the text is really long for what it does and it is definitely part of the reason why the Planeswalker 2nd ability is actually bad: they want EDH to be accessible to new players and don't want to mess with complicated rules like Doubling Season. We will see more and more bad reprints of Doubling Season but yet none of all the functional reprints do what the original card do.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Feldon of the Third Path is something I seriously consider even if it's not a goblin. It's pretty solid, it's a second Moggcatcher, it's tutorable with Imperial Recruiter and I have absolutely no creature recursion in the deck (once a non-artifact creature is in the graveyard, it's as good as exiled right now).
I don't like the fact that it is slow without haste (and only Anger and Kiki-Jiki can give it haste) but it's still a really serious threat. The EOT trigger means that it can be activated at my opponent's EOT (like Kiki-Jiki) and have the creature for my opponent's EOT + my own turn (which means 2 activations of that creature ability).
Reiterate is the card to go out for sure in any case. And with nearly 30 creatures in the deck, I have to find another haste enabler than Anger and the conditional Goblin Chieftain. Flamekin Village might be playable after all as it wouldn't take a spell slot, and having 2 lands out of 36 that ETB tapped means I'm okay most of the time (I should do the maths, it's mostly a problem if I only have 2 lands in my opening hand really but I rarely have a turn 1 play besides Norin, so I can slam a tapped land on turn 1 anyway).
It might justify Changeling Berserker as an elemental and it also protects non-goblin creatures, which Lightning Crafter does not. With ~30 creatures and ~17 artifacts, I'm probably better playing both Champion creatures than having something like Sculpting Steel that can sometimes be a dead card. And Feldon can bring back a champion creature from the graveyard to protect a creature as an instant effect against Wrath of God. Also note the interesting interaction with championning creatures and Warp World.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Yeah, I saw it on your list. Ogre Battledriver is the answer (and I forgot to mention it in my last post). If I add Feldon of the Third Path, that will be one more reason to play the Battledriver over the enchantment.
Overall, the creature is more vulnerable BUT costs 4 instead of 5, the 3/3 body is definitely really nice with all the other enchantments (or Genesis Chamber).
One last reason not to play In the Web of War is Possibility Storm. What I want to win usually is Pandemonium, Warstorm Surge or Confusion in the Ranks. If Possibility Storm is on the battlefield and I have an enchantment in my hand, I want to hit reliably a win condition. That leaves the deck with 6 enchantments, the other ones being Blood Moon and Stranglehold. I feel like these 2 enchantments are really good, it is dead in some specific matchups but most of the time, it will hurt the opponent. Obviously, if I play Confusion and hit off P-Storm something like Blood Moon, I'm not really happy, but it happens. It's all about the maths. Although In the Web of War is a really good card, it's not a win condition by itself like the other enchantments are. Other than that, it has all the same benefits of Battledriver but at 1 more mana (haste enabler and +2/+0 power especially good with Genesis Chamber, Pandemonium and Warstorm Surge).
Edit: I totally forgot Purphoros because it shows up as a creature in my list, but it is a huge win condition too, so that's 4 enchantments that wins out of 7 with the 3 others being P-Storm, B-Moon et Stranglehold, which I feel are really strong too. Norin is really hard to get rid off, so I assume he's always here, and if for some reason he's not, the rest of the deck is still really geared towards those enchantments with a lot of instant token generations in the form of lands like Springjack Pasture and Kher Keep and creatures like Myr Battlesphere, Goblin Marshal or just Genesis Chamber).
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Also, having both on the battlefield is definitely a win-more. One is good enough to win. The only reason to have 2 is being able to hit it more often, but I don't think I want to hit it more often than I'm already able to hit the Battledriver.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I updated the list just to see how that looks with the new addition
-1 Relic of Progenitus
-1 Goblin Burrows
-1 Reiterate
+1 Feldon of the Third Path
+1 Flamekin Village
+1 Changeling Berserker
30 creatures now (+ Norin), including 18 goblins.
Ogre Battledriver is good by itself without any other creature because it can block and attack and trigger my ETBs while In the Web of War can be a really bad topdeck.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
The only reason to have 2 is being able to hit it more often
This is exactly the important reason in 100 card singelton formats. Run good effects as often as possible. [...] But actually I wouldn`t force a second instant just for Possibility Storm. The chance, that the one Possibility Storm and the one instant see each other in the same game is very unlikely.
Another possible cut could be Gauntlet of Power, since your deck is quite fast and not that mana intense, that it really needs much ramp, when it already has 5 mana available.
Gauntlet of Power makes creatures bigger. I actually want more of those, since my tokens like to attack, and a bigger Norin means bigger damages with Pandemonium and Warstorm Surge. I'm winning with those enchantments, and doing 3 with Norin really helps to make this clock faster.
I used to play Caged Sun. But it's the same argument with In the Web of War. Because one card is good in EDH at some specific CMC doesn't mean you have to run every other functional reprint of that card at higher CMC.
Ogre Battledriver has a couple of advantages over In the Web of War. First of all, it's a creature, which means it is easier to recur it. It can block, it can attack, it does trigger Pandemonium, Warstorm Surge and Genesis Chamber. It is 4-CMC. In the Web of War has another disadvantage and it is being an enchantment. Yes, it is harder to deal with, but it also makes Possibility Storm less reliable. Playing only 1 instant also makes Possibility Storm less reliable. I've been playing this deck for years now and those little details do matter in the long run. You could be surprised about how many games I do play Possibility Storm and how many times I will either hit an enchantment or an instant or even a Planeswalker (I'm mentionning it because I'm playing 2 mostly for that reason).
I still agree that you have to run good effects as often as possible and this is why Gauntlet of Power is played even if Gauntlet of Might is already here and that's also why I used to play Caged Sun: because this is what this deck really wants.
+2/+0 is good with Pandemonium too, but Pandemonium works for your opponents and the added toughness can be really useful too. Doubling the mana is good too. The deck isn't that mana intensive but that's because I'm really working hard on the decklist so that the curve is playable with the number of lands I'm playing and the spells I'm playing.
It may not look like a mana intensive deck, but playing Moggcatcher with haste enabler and being able to have 6 mana open to fetch Kiki-Jiki and copy it at the end of my opponent's turn is really huge and makes all the difference between winning and losing. That's 10 mana. Adding Feldon of the Third Path will just make this even worst, since I can tap 3 at EOT to bring back Moggcatcher, tap 3 again to fetch Kiki-Jiki, copy Moggcatcher or Feldon and tap 3 again to get something else. Assuming I played Feldon that same turn with haste enabler, that's 12 mana. 14 if the haste enabler is Flamekin.
I would cut Word of Seizing and if you are looking for another isntant, my other instants are Shattering Pulse, Starstorm and Skred, while this obviously only works with snow-lands.
Btw. another card, that seems very interesting to me from the new series is Volcanic Offering. Destroy 2 nonbasics and 2 creatures for 5 mana with instant speed seems great to me
Volcanic Offering could be interesting but it doesn't really do much besides land destruction. I have Blood Moon, Goblin Settler and Ghost Quarter for that and would definitely add Wasteland before taking a spell slot for this, assuming it is a problem in your meta. And if you don't mind the French banlist, Strip Mine is another option that seems better to me than a 5-CMC spell.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I've got a big playgroup with multiple chaos decks similar to this.
It's usually a 50/50 chance of being really funny and interesting or boring and complicated.
My list doesn't run anything really complicated or boring, what are your playgroup running? Grip of Chaos, Thieves' Auction and Radiate are cards complicated and boring to resolve. Warp World and Possibility Storm aren't, except if you are extraordinarly lazy.
Now that the full set is released, I can say that I won't make any change in my own list with the release of Fated Reforge. Ugin doesn't fit the strategy, Humble Defector is a really bad Wheel of Fortune and would be better in combo decks (especially with Ashnod's Altar, Mimic Vat, Cloudstone Curio, cards that I don't play) and finally Outpost Siege that is either a really bad Pandemonium or a bad Chandra (not so say that Wheel of Fortune is also better). Versatility always has a price and that price is too big here for a 4-CMC enchantment that can only be resetted with Warp World and Cloudstone Curio (that I don't play).
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
i would have paid gold yesterday night if the pandemonium i had in hand could be used to "draw" a card each turn. even the flexibility alone is for me very nice on outpost. as usual, as soon as i get it i'll try it.
not quite sure if it's enough to take chandra's place though - i agree that cmc 6 for a bad wheel is not worth it some of the time, but still, it's one of the outlets for anger to be discarded.
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I haven't updated this thread in months, I will have to take a look at new cards to see if there could be any change.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I stopped playing for a few months but I'm now back with Norin. I looked at the new sets of the last 12 months and found nothing really worthy to add to the deck. New red planeswalker is nice but doesn't really fit with the synergy of the deck. A few new goblins too, not bad but the list is already pretty tight, every card has been carefully chosen.
Hopefully we get a reprint of Goblin Settler someday. Imperial Recruiter too. Gauntlet of Might is unfortunaly on the reserve list. I'm looking at the deck right now and it's really expensive with those 3 cards adding up already to $500. Got a couple of $30 cards in here too.
Scroll Rack is a longtime considered card because of how mono-red draws cards (usually wheel/looting effects). It's only 2-cmc and I'd love to find room to playtest it. It's better than Teferi's Puzzle Box in many ways but not as chaotic (doesn't mess up with your opponents' tutors and don't forget the good synergy with Stingscourger), and you end up having access to the same cards if you can't shuffle. To play Scroll Rack, I think you need to add the 4 fetchlands. With fetchlands being reprinted, I really could consider this, I will have to give this a second tought.
EDIT: After some discussion with a friend of mine, Cloudstone Curio is probably the card to remove with 4 Mountains. The Puzzle Box mess up with the opponents' miracle triggers too and really fits the chaotic strategy overall. Cloudstone Curio doesn't, it's kind of a win-more card.
So... Removing:
- 4 Mountains
- Cloudstone Curio
Adding:
Scroll Rack
Wooded Foothills
Bloodstained Mire
Scalding Tarn
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
scroll rack is a good call, as i lack zendikar fetches for now, i'll try with 2 and 3 panoramas again - you might want to add madblind mountain too.
as for me, fetches means i need to get back into the deck crucible of worlds, even if just to test it.
I hate playing against chaos decks. If everything was automated, it would be fun but resolving triggers is always a 10+ minute ordeal once all the pieces are in play. So while I think this deck is probably a blast to pilot and fun in general, I don't enjoy playing against it for logistical reasons. Sweet list though, and I think Noren is perfect for a chaos build.
Crucible of Worlds is banned under the French banlist, so this is a no for me since I want my "casual" decks to be legal in every official banlist (personal preference). But if you play it, also play Wasteland and Strip Mine, and Ghost Quarter is good too against those greedy 5 color decks (even 3 color decks tend not to play many basic lands).
Madblind Mountain isn't good enough as a compensation for the ETB tapped. I like to shuffle with Scroll Rack or even sometimes with Possibility Storm but tapped lands make a huge tempo difference sometimes. However, if you decide to play it, you probably have to play Sensei's Divining Top (another dual-commander banned card).
The new land in Commander 2014, Flamekin Village, is really interesting however. It enters the battlefield tapped if we don't reveal an elemental. However, it taps for red and taps (+R) to give haste to a creature (Moggcatcher and Krenko are really good targets). Funny enough, I play one elemental in Grinning Ignus and Lightning Crafter has been swapped a few times for Changeling Berserker because the latest can champion any creature in the deck, not only goblins (mostly Purphoros and Moggcatcher against board wipe/exile). The other advantage with the Berserker is the bigger body for the Pandemonium effect, haste, and now changeling, which means a second elemental.
It's really a coin toss, Kiki-Jiki is really good with the Crafter (and those 2 go infinite with Pandemonium, which is something I actually try to avoid (infinite combos)), and it's Lightning Bolt on a stick in a deck that doesn't tend to have a lot of targetted removal (except for Aftershock but that one is really versatile). However, the ability of the Berserker to champion Moggcatcher as an instant effect with Moggcatcher's own ability is really huge against board wipes, since Moggcatcher can completely ruin any board wipe by recovering in a turn or 2. Purphoros is another non-goblin creature (sometimes) and Myr Battlesphere can be good to abuse too. Finally, Ogre Battledriver which is a constant target once it is on the battlefield.
Mimic Vat is really good too, I don't play it because this card usually gets destroyed on sight and we don't have much to protect it (unlike Possibility Storm that protects itself), but it's a really powerful card, especially with Wurmcoil Engine, Myr Battlesphere and Goblin Welder (or any other creature in the deck really, with all those ETBs).
Thank you. Norin though, not Noren ;p. As for the trigger part, I'm being really careful with every card I put in this deck to avoid any such crazy situation. I don't play Grip of Chaos or Radiate (against or with Chaos Warp, lol) especially because of this. I try to avoid Thieves' Auction too because it is really long to resolve in a 4-player game and there are a lot of triggers with all the ETB (and you have to keep count of what card enters first because it may be important to know what will trigger Pandemonium). The only "complicated" card really is Warp World, but the way it is worded, it's actually easier than it looks, since all the enchantments enter the battlefield AFTER the other cards... so no Pandemonium effects, only the usual ETB of the creatures and maybe some Genesis Chamber (and the tokens will trigger the enchantments' ETB but it's not too much complicated at that point).
But thanks for your comment. You definitely need to know very well how the game works to pilot cards like Warp World, but when you do and when you know every card in the deck and how every card works, it's usually going really fast. (but yeah, there will be situations where your opponents' permanents are actually the problem.)
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I don't know if Relic of Progenitus is much of a necessity, it kills our own graveyard and I have nothing to tutor it except Gamble. If I'm playing against a competitive reanimator, I'm already losing anyway, and if not, Norin just does his thing and doesn't care too much about what's happening else.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
agreed with both sculpting steel and relic of progenitus - norin can't reliably fight gy decks on his own, one card we can't tutor won't make a difference.
just give red a good tutor for artifacts and i will have sculpting steel in there at once. as is, i run just one card that doesn't do anything by itself, and that is liquimetal coating, which is going to see its way out of the deck pretty soon in jaya's stead.
For now, the only change would be:
-1 Relic of Progenitus
+1 Sculpting Steel
But I'm still considering that new land, I will have to playtest it (even with only 1-2 elemental in the deck).
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
EOT tap Moggcatcher to get Kiki, copy Moggcatcher, tap the 2nd Moggcatcher to get Chieftain.
Untap, tap Moggcatcher #1 to get Krenko, tap Moggcatcher #2 to get Siege-Gang Commander, tap Kiki to copy Moggcatcher again if you have enough mana to get Goblin Marshal, if you don't, just copy Chieftain, then tap Krenko, make 9 more goblin tokens that are either 2/2s or 3/3s if you have 2 Chieftain or any more support (Gauntlets) and swing usually for lethal (and that's if you don't have Purphoros, Pandemonium or Warstorm Surge).
I mean, yeah, this deck can be REALLY good without goblins, but don't tell me it's not good, because it really is. The sorcery cards you are talking about are cards played in a Purphoros deck and it's a completely different deck.
I know I'm kind of prisonner of my theme/synergy because I could decide to not play the new land just because the word "elemental" is written on it. So at the end, I'm not playing the most optimized version of the deck and I know that, that's my decision, I'm playing this deck as a casual chaos deck to have fun and different games than what players usually see in their playgroups. Gaka's take on this deck is more competitive with the stax package for sure. For me, the thematic is really important in a non-competitive EDH deck, but that's just me. That's why I have an altered Norin, and not because it is actually better.
I would be interested to see a completely different version with Elemental instead of Goblins. That, I think, could be really interesting in my point of view and still play really well with Norin.
Also, my friend was trying to convince me to add the new planeswalker or the new 2/2 creature (Dualcaster) that Fork a spell. I decided not to in both cases. For the Planeswalker, you have to discard before you draw. It costs 4. The second ability is the same as Goblin Welder. So, it is either a really really bad Faitless Looting, or just a bad Goblin Welder. And you're not getting to the ultimate anytime soon (not that you really want to). About the new creature, it's not a goblin (that would be completely different if it was), and I'm already thinking that Reiterate is the next card to go out, overall I rarely buy it back and rarely find something really useful to copy.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
World of Seizing is a really surprising card and blue mages definitely don't like it. That's a beautiful 13 loyalty counters you have on that Jace! Same with Karn's ultimate, this is just game over if it's not countered, and split second should be more than enough.
But if your meta is fine with infinite combos, Zealous Conscript is in 95% cases better, so feel free to play it. I just always felt that the deck would be more about getting the combo than actually playing all the funny and synergic cards.
For the Planeswalker, at 4-cmc it ain't Koth, the -2 isn't really that great since it ends up at 1 loyalty after that, and Welder is also reusable and don't forget Chieftain, Anger, Kiki-Jiki and Battledriver as haste enablers.
Faithless Looting costs 4 to let you draw 4 and discard 4 and can be played on turn 1. It is definitely better than a 4-cmc discard then draw (and Rummaging Goblin is still here), and Welder is in most cases better too and it's 1 mana and can be found with Moggcatcher or Recruiter. Honestly, I really don't understand all the hype around it, you take 2 good cards that cost 1-cmc and make them bad (or at least worse) to add some versatility (actually, Faithless Looting is still more versatile)... I mean, it's not enough to make it a good card. You can playtest it, but I don't even see this as a good card in my casual list and you seem to play a more competitive list than mine.
Drawing first is really huge for a looting. Welder and Faithless Looting both see play in eternal formats. That 4-cmc Planeswalker will never do and there is a reason for that. Faithless Looting makes a really bad opener keepable because you know you can play it on turn 1 and cycle through your deck, get that 3rd land and flashback it if really needed. And I'm not even arguing (yet) that Welder can mess with your opponents' artifacts...
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Arcane Lighthouse is like Tower of the Magistrate in the fact that it can be useful against some really specific deck/card, but not enough to warrant a permanent spot if your meta doesn't specifically justify it.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Most of Norin curve is at 4. That land needs 3 mana to ramp to 4, which means we have 5 instead of 4 on turn 4 and we lost 2 turns doing so.
I won't be playing it but as I said, YMMV, this is a meta call. I really think tempo is important in this format and especially in Norin, you need to be able to resolve your spells and for that, you need to be ready whenever your opponents finally decide to play their own spells and let their guard down. But Valakut and Koth both likes mountains: the more you have the better.
For the Planeswalker, you are still talking about taking 2 good cards to make it, but it's not true: again, the first ability is way worse than Faithless Looting and the 2nd ability is way worse than Welder. In fact, we shouldn't even talk about any added versatility because this card has less overall.
Legacy likes 1-cmc but Welder is actually more played in Vintage where 5 and 6-cmc permanents are abundant. He's that good, he messes up with your opponents' permanents.
I won't argue anymore on that, end of debate for me, I feel like I covered up pretty much every aspect of it and of what makes this a terrible card overall. Actually, all the 5 new Planeswalker aren't really that good, but that's okay if people want to play those. You say that eternal formats don't play 4 cmc Planeswalker but Koth has seen a lot of play, Jace obviously, Liliana and Karn too. the Elspeths too, even Gideons and Garruks (maybe not the 6 and 7-cmc editions). It all depends on the abilities. Jace has 4, but notice how his Brainstorm ability isn't just a bad worded Brainstorm: it is actually a Brainstorm. Tibalt is bad, why? Because his first ability is also a bad worded Looting. Goblin Welder will probably never be printed again in standard because it is way too powerful and the ruling on that card is nearly a mess, the text is really long for what it does and it is definitely part of the reason why the Planeswalker 2nd ability is actually bad: they want EDH to be accessible to new players and don't want to mess with complicated rules like Doubling Season. We will see more and more bad reprints of Doubling Season but yet none of all the functional reprints do what the original card do.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I don't like the fact that it is slow without haste (and only Anger and Kiki-Jiki can give it haste) but it's still a really serious threat. The EOT trigger means that it can be activated at my opponent's EOT (like Kiki-Jiki) and have the creature for my opponent's EOT + my own turn (which means 2 activations of that creature ability).
Reiterate is the card to go out for sure in any case. And with nearly 30 creatures in the deck, I have to find another haste enabler than Anger and the conditional Goblin Chieftain. Flamekin Village might be playable after all as it wouldn't take a spell slot, and having 2 lands out of 36 that ETB tapped means I'm okay most of the time (I should do the maths, it's mostly a problem if I only have 2 lands in my opening hand really but I rarely have a turn 1 play besides Norin, so I can slam a tapped land on turn 1 anyway).
It might justify Changeling Berserker as an elemental and it also protects non-goblin creatures, which Lightning Crafter does not. With ~30 creatures and ~17 artifacts, I'm probably better playing both Champion creatures than having something like Sculpting Steel that can sometimes be a dead card. And Feldon can bring back a champion creature from the graveyard to protect a creature as an instant effect against Wrath of God. Also note the interesting interaction with championning creatures and Warp World.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Ogre Battledriver is the answer (and I forgot to mention it in my last post). If I add Feldon of the Third Path, that will be one more reason to play the Battledriver over the enchantment.
Overall, the creature is more vulnerable BUT costs 4 instead of 5, the 3/3 body is definitely really nice with all the other enchantments (or Genesis Chamber).
One last reason not to play In the Web of War is Possibility Storm. What I want to win usually is Pandemonium, Warstorm Surge or Confusion in the Ranks. If Possibility Storm is on the battlefield and I have an enchantment in my hand, I want to hit reliably a win condition. That leaves the deck with 6 enchantments, the other ones being Blood Moon and Stranglehold. I feel like these 2 enchantments are really good, it is dead in some specific matchups but most of the time, it will hurt the opponent. Obviously, if I play Confusion and hit off P-Storm something like Blood Moon, I'm not really happy, but it happens. It's all about the maths. Although In the Web of War is a really good card, it's not a win condition by itself like the other enchantments are. Other than that, it has all the same benefits of Battledriver but at 1 more mana (haste enabler and +2/+0 power especially good with Genesis Chamber, Pandemonium and Warstorm Surge).
Edit: I totally forgot Purphoros because it shows up as a creature in my list, but it is a huge win condition too, so that's 4 enchantments that wins out of 7 with the 3 others being P-Storm, B-Moon et Stranglehold, which I feel are really strong too. Norin is really hard to get rid off, so I assume he's always here, and if for some reason he's not, the rest of the deck is still really geared towards those enchantments with a lot of instant token generations in the form of lands like Springjack Pasture and Kher Keep and creatures like Myr Battlesphere, Goblin Marshal or just Genesis Chamber).
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Also, having both on the battlefield is definitely a win-more. One is good enough to win. The only reason to have 2 is being able to hit it more often, but I don't think I want to hit it more often than I'm already able to hit the Battledriver.
With that said, I looked back at the first page of the thread and noticed how Sculpting Steel is bad with Warp World and how both Changeling Berserker and Lightning Crafter are both awesome with Moggcatcher and Feldon of the Third Path so I would play both.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
-1 Relic of Progenitus
-1 Goblin Burrows
-1 Reiterate
+1 Feldon of the Third Path
+1 Flamekin Village
+1 Changeling Berserker
30 creatures now (+ Norin), including 18 goblins.
Ogre Battledriver is good by itself without any other creature because it can block and attack and trigger my ETBs while In the Web of War can be a really bad topdeck.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I used to play Caged Sun. But it's the same argument with In the Web of War. Because one card is good in EDH at some specific CMC doesn't mean you have to run every other functional reprint of that card at higher CMC.
Demonic Tutor is good. It doesn't mean that Diabolic Tutor is good too.
Ogre Battledriver has a couple of advantages over In the Web of War. First of all, it's a creature, which means it is easier to recur it. It can block, it can attack, it does trigger Pandemonium, Warstorm Surge and Genesis Chamber. It is 4-CMC. In the Web of War has another disadvantage and it is being an enchantment. Yes, it is harder to deal with, but it also makes Possibility Storm less reliable. Playing only 1 instant also makes Possibility Storm less reliable. I've been playing this deck for years now and those little details do matter in the long run. You could be surprised about how many games I do play Possibility Storm and how many times I will either hit an enchantment or an instant or even a Planeswalker (I'm mentionning it because I'm playing 2 mostly for that reason).
I still agree that you have to run good effects as often as possible and this is why Gauntlet of Power is played even if Gauntlet of Might is already here and that's also why I used to play Caged Sun: because this is what this deck really wants.
+2/+0 is good with Pandemonium too, but Pandemonium works for your opponents and the added toughness can be really useful too. Doubling the mana is good too. The deck isn't that mana intensive but that's because I'm really working hard on the decklist so that the curve is playable with the number of lands I'm playing and the spells I'm playing.
It may not look like a mana intensive deck, but playing Moggcatcher with haste enabler and being able to have 6 mana open to fetch Kiki-Jiki and copy it at the end of my opponent's turn is really huge and makes all the difference between winning and losing. That's 10 mana. Adding Feldon of the Third Path will just make this even worst, since I can tap 3 at EOT to bring back Moggcatcher, tap 3 again to fetch Kiki-Jiki, copy Moggcatcher or Feldon and tap 3 again to get something else. Assuming I played Feldon that same turn with haste enabler, that's 12 mana. 14 if the haste enabler is Flamekin.
Memory Jar, Wheel of Fortune, Reforge the Soul, Chandra... these cards all love mana.
I prefer Shattering Spree over Shattering Pulse because of blue decks and because of Possibility Storm and Knowledge Pool (the replicate will still resolve). Also, it is 1 mana. The 3 other cards you mention are dealing with creatures, something this deck doesn't have really any problem with. Norin follows his own gameplan and already had a lot to deal with creatures: Helm of Possession, Confusion in the Ranks, Warstorm Surge, Pandemonium, Word of Seizing, Goblin Sharpshooter, Lightning Crafter, Mogg Infestation, Goblin Assassin, Siege-Gang Commander, Duplicant and Chaos Warp. That's a heck lot of cards already that can deal with creatures and most of them are recurrable or tutorable. I know that running good effects more often is good... but I'm not going to build a RDW EDH deck either.
Volcanic Offering could be interesting but it doesn't really do much besides land destruction. I have Blood Moon, Goblin Settler and Ghost Quarter for that and would definitely add Wasteland before taking a spell slot for this, assuming it is a problem in your meta. And if you don't mind the French banlist, Strip Mine is another option that seems better to me than a 5-CMC spell.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
He's been okay so far, he's not as good as in decks that play him as their Commander but he's not nearly as bad as I thought he would be.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Norin likes to leave the battlefield. Seems like we got a new card.
Not an auto-include by any means, but definitely worth considerations. Pretty good with Grinning Ignus too.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
It's usually a 50/50 chance of being really funny and interesting or boring and complicated.
My list doesn't run anything really complicated or boring, what are your playgroup running? Grip of Chaos, Thieves' Auction and Radiate are cards complicated and boring to resolve. Warp World and Possibility Storm aren't, except if you are extraordinarly lazy.
Now that the full set is released, I can say that I won't make any change in my own list with the release of Fated Reforge. Ugin doesn't fit the strategy, Humble Defector is a really bad Wheel of Fortune and would be better in combo decks (especially with Ashnod's Altar, Mimic Vat, Cloudstone Curio, cards that I don't play) and finally Outpost Siege that is either a really bad Pandemonium or a bad Chandra (not so say that Wheel of Fortune is also better). Versatility always has a price and that price is too big here for a 4-CMC enchantment that can only be resetted with Warp World and Cloudstone Curio (that I don't play).
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
not quite sure if it's enough to take chandra's place though - i agree that cmc 6 for a bad wheel is not worth it some of the time, but still, it's one of the outlets for anger to be discarded.