Well Minion Reflector would kill Kozilek because of the legend rule. And Karakas is banned. Erratic Portal is a cool card though. I'm sure some players would find room for it.
While Karakas is banned the Minion Reflector + Erratic portal Combo is really cool.
The legend rule would kill Kozilek if you let the token hit before using portal, but if you bounce Kozilek in response to the Token going on the stack you get the token hitting and sticking + the ability to recast Kozilek w/o paying extra mana based on how many times he died.
Minion Reflector can also with things like Blightsteel to really beatdown with extra fatties.
Any other cards like Erratic portal in colorless though?
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
While Karakas is banned the Minion Reflector + Erratic portal Combo is really cool.
The legend rule would kill Kozilek if you let the token hit before using portal, but if you bounce Kozilek in response to the Token going on the stack you get the token hitting and sticking + the ability to recast Kozilek w/o paying extra mana based on how many times he died.
Minion Reflector can also with things like Blightsteel to really beatdown with extra fatties.
Any other cards like Erratic portal in colorless though?
I will repeat this again.
I'm not going to put cards in my deck because they might combo off with two other cards on the field, even if one of those is my Commander. In general it's terrible deck-building and is not about synergy anymore. If you want to do these things play a black deck with lots of tutors and it might work if not responded too.
As for the Blightsteel, he's already 12 mana and proves hard to cast (well, sometimes.) holding him off because you want to put a minion reflector on the field or be able to pay the minion reflector ability cost will reduce the tempo of the deck, how would it benefit from such a thing? If I draw the reflector after Blightsteel colossus is on the field already, it becomes a dead card until I ever draw that Erratic Portal. Can you not see how this makes the deck less synergistic ? Each and one of the other artifacts interact with so much of the deck and has been chosen because of that reason. When they don't, they practically work on their own. (think Relic of Progenitus)
You should really put Codex Shredder in here. Besides acting as a Regrowth, it gives you a TON of value.
-You can use it to disrupt topdeck manipulation, including topdeck tutors.
-It improves your own topdeck manipulation, such as Sensei's Divining Top and Scroll Rack.
-It fills your graveyard with things you can recur later.
-With Mirrorworks, you can slowly recur your entire graveyard, or repeatedly recur one thing. Play the Shredder and copy it, use the original to recur something, then use the copy to get back the original, ready to be cloned again. The best thing about this combo is that it protects itself and gives you extreme advantage over longer games.
-With Rings of Brighthearth, you can also have unlimited recursion. Use Shredder to recur something, then copy the recursion ability. Bring back whatever you want, plus the Shredder that you just sacrificed.
-The above trick can also be used with Petriefied Field and Rings to recur all of your lands. Needless to say, this is very powerful when combined with Buired Ruin or Haunted Fengraf, especially since Rings can copy their abilities as well.
Having colorless infinite recursion in a deck opens up a really robust, resilient wincon in the form of Jester's Cap. It's a great card on its own, but once you have infinite colorless mana and infinite draws, via Rings of Brighthearth+Sensei's Divining Top+Basalt Monolith, or something else, you just need to use your infinite recursion to keep playing Cap until nobody has a library left, and since artifact recursion is built into the combo, it's very difficult to disrupt once it gets going.
I will repeat this again.
I'm not going to put cards in my deck because they might combo off with two other cards on the field, even if one of those is my Commander. In general it's terrible deck-building and is not about synergy anymore. If you want to do these things play a black deck with lots of tutors and it might work if not responded too.
As for the Blightsteel, he's already 12 mana and proves hard to cast (well, sometimes.) holding him off because you want to put a minion reflector on the field or be able to pay the minion reflector ability cost will reduce the tempo of the deck, how would it benefit from such a thing? If I draw the reflector after Blightsteel colossus is on the field already, it becomes a dead card until I ever draw that Erratic Portal. Can you not see how this makes the deck less synergistic ? Each and one of the other artifacts interact with so much of the deck and has been chosen because of that reason. When they don't, they practically work on their own. (think Relic of Progenitus)
If you can not see this, I advise you to test it out over a couple of games and record the progress.
I forgot that you deck has less creatures than mine. If you had a lot of creatures hitting the field you would probably be happy to have an extra for 2 mana.
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
I forgot that you deck has less creatures than mine. If you had a lot of creatures hitting the field you would probably be happy to have an extra for 2 mana.
What other creatures do you run that benefit from Minion Reflector much?
You should really put Codex Shredder in here. Besides acting as a Regrowth, it gives you a TON of value.
-You can use it to disrupt topdeck manipulation, including topdeck tutors.
-It improves your own topdeck manipulation, such as Sensei's Divining Top and Scroll Rack.
-It fills your graveyard with things you can recur later.
This part makes me see some of the power of Codex Shredder, do you value it above a Myr retriever?
-With Mirrorworks, you can slowly recur your entire graveyard, or repeatedly recur one thing. Play the Shredder and copy it, use the original to recur something, then use the copy to get back the original, ready to be cloned again. The best thing about this combo is that it protects itself and gives you extreme advantage over longer games.
However, in longer games I'd rather use the mana to keep recasting Kozilek and drawing 4 cards a pop instead. It's not like there's certain combo pieces in my grave that I have a need to recur for.
-With Rings of Brighthearth, you can also have unlimited recursion. Use Shredder to recur something, then copy the recursion ability. Bring back whatever you want, plus the Shredder that you just sacrificed.
-The above trick can also be used with Petriefied Field and Rings to recur all of your lands. Needless to say, this is very powerful when combined with Buired Ruin or Haunted Fengraf, especially since Rings can copy their abilities as well.
Yeah but is a card spot worth it if I can do this with lands already?
There's also the factor that I might not even be able to recur anything. Think about Ulamog, the infinite gyre shuffling my library. Relic of progenitus popped, someone else's grave hate..
Having colorless infinite recursion in a deck opens up a really robust, resilient wincon in the form of Jester's Cap. It's a great card on its own, but once you have infinite colorless mana and infinite draws, via Rings of Brighthearth+Sensei's Divining Top+Basalt Monolith, or something else, you just need to use your infinite recursion to keep playing Cap until nobody has a library left, and since artifact recursion is built into the combo, it's very difficult to disrupt once it gets going.
May I first refer you to the whole section devoted to rings of brighthearth in the main thread so you can see how I feel about this situation.
Second, this deck is not made to combo out. Rings + Basalt is the ONLY way to create infinite colorless mana and I hate doing/don't do it in a casual game. Even in competative games I'd rather just bash someone's face in with 46 generated mana and my current hand. Putting more combo's in this deck does not contribute to the whole idea of it. If I want to combo shouldn't I just play Karn, silver golem instead? I'm more of a synergy-guy than a combo-out-sorry-gg kind of guy and this deck is built towards that. ACTUALLY it's meant to prove that colorless shouldn't always be "oh another combo deck.."
This part makes me see some of the power of Codex Shredder, do you value it above a Myr retriever?
That all depends on how often you have extra mana, and how reliably the Retriever dies when you want it to. If you're facing lots of combo with topdeck tutors, I'd make the swap. Does Retriever usually have a good target? Shredder creates its own targets if that's an issue.
However, in longer games I'd rather use the mana to keep recasting Kozilek and drawing 4 cards a pop instead. It's not like there's certain combo pieces in my grave that I have a need to recur for.
That's definitely a better play. How often do you top out on mana for a few turns?
Yeah but is a card spot worth it if I can do this with lands already?
There's also the factor that I might not even be able to recur anything. Think about Ulamog, the infinite gyre shuffling my library. Relic of progenitus popped, someone else's grave hate..
Those are always possibilities, but the cards are all good regardless, and if they can't disrupt it, you can really pull ahead, even if you don't have access to Kozilek is tucked or Lignifyed or something.
May I first refer you to the whole section devoted to rings of brighthearth in the main thread so you can see how I feel about this situation.
Second, this deck is not made to combo out. Rings + Basalt is the ONLY way to create infinite colorless mana and I hate doing/don't do it in a casual game. Even in competative games I'd rather just bash someone's face in with 46 generated mana and my current hand. Putting more combo's in this deck does not contribute to the whole idea of it. If I want to combo shouldn't I just play Karn, silver golem instead? I'm more of a synergy-guy than a combo-out-sorry-gg kind of guy and this deck is built towards that. ACTUALLY it's meant to prove that colorless shouldn't always be "oh another combo deck.."
Yeah, I know you don't like to combo out. I just wanted to point this out as an option. They're all good enough on their own, and in fact, I discovered that interaction in my Diaochan deck by accident after I was already running all of those cards. It's good to know about if you're playing against a deck that uses cheap tactics and you have no other way to win.
That all depends on how often you have extra mana, and how reliably the Retriever dies when you want it to. If you're facing lots of combo with topdeck tutors, I'd make the swap. Does Retriever usually have a good target? Shredder creates its own targets if that's an issue.
That's definitely a better play. How often do you top out on mana for a few turns?
Those are always possibilities, but the cards are all good regardless, and if they can't disrupt it, you can really pull ahead, even if you don't have access to Kozilek is tucked or Lignifyed or something.
Yeah, I know you don't like to combo out. I just wanted to point this out as an option. They're all good enough on their own, and in fact, I discovered that interaction in my Diaochan deck by accident after I was already running all of those cards. It's good to know about if you're playing against a deck that uses cheap tactics and you have no other way to win.
I'll see where I can fit it in for playtesting. ATM it's quite the problem though cause I also want to try Helm of Awakening and Mox Opal to see the effectiveness of the ramp they bring.
I haven't tested them yet but atm Helm of awakening seems golden in a deck with lots of card draw/advantage. And mox opal is a cheap mana rock that will most likely always be effective. Can also easily be put on the field and interact with say.. A clock of omens. Without needing to spend mana on it. Have you had any experience running these?
What's your meta or playgroup look like? can you give us some detail?
Sure.
There's a large amount of EDH players in my LGS and with a large amount of players come a large amount of variety. There's casual and there's competitive. However.. I do have a main playgroup I play with on a weekly basis, we're quite the competitive group and there's a variety of decks to come with it. There's the obvious Maelstrom wanderer goodstuffs.dec, Azami, lady of scrolls combo, Gruul beatdown, Boros Equipment beatdown, lots and lots of green/blue decks, Combo mimeoplasm that isn't scared of using infect as secondary wincon. An infect deck, etc etc.
There's many decks you might recognize and grasp a certain feel from it without knowing which players pilot them, but I'm here to tell you our playgroup got quite scared of how effective beatdown has become. There's this one truly strong boros beat-down deck that has Aurelia, the warleader as it's general and when that player knows there's a combo deck at the table, that player isn't going to live long. As such our playgroup has evolved, goodstuffs.dec is one of the worst decks you can play and will just paint a target on your head. Therefore lots and lots of "synergy" decks as I called it have appeared packed with a tight mana curve. This can be control, beatdown, combo, anything as long as you know you won't survive not playing anything for 5 turns except for like a kodama's reach.
We usually play with tables of 4 or 5. We find 3 to be not a high enough number for political play and 6 to be too much of a cluster. If a game of 6 is accompanied by 4 combo decks, the games tend to go quite lackluster.
Hence, a table of 4 or a table of 5 is perfect!
As for players and plays. We're all competent enough to pack enough spot removal, counter-spells (even this deck has null brooch), answers and hate (may it be grave-hate or a torpor orb). To stop linear strategies and decks that only work with their general around. Probably all games have atleast one blue player and atleast one green player.
If you're thinking this leaves a low amount of options for deck-building you're very wrong. There's a really strong mono-red Ib halfheart, goblin tactician deck around that can win out of the blue and even competitive tribal decks. There's even a guy building an insect deck and I doubt it will be casual.
As for the casual players around my LGS, I play with them often but find that this deck might pack too much power for it. It turns into archenemy easily.
I love the title of this thread. I've been looking for a reason to play my copy of Koz. Let me ask this, though: how often do you run into board wipes?
I love the title of this thread. I've been looking for a reason to play my copy of Koz. Let me ask this, though: how often do you run into board wipes?
Creature wipes: often, but this doesn't hurt this deck at all.
Nonland board wipes: less, and this hurt the deck way more. However, when this is cast many people get behind some and this deck is known to build up pretty fast. What can be a problem though, is nonland board wipes when Kozilek is costing like 18 to 22 mana. It get's increasingly hard on such occasions. When this happens always look at the lands you have left, most of the time they will have enough utility to make you able to get your machine running again.
Mass bounce: This doesn't hurt the deck at all, you build up like a beast with all those cheap mana rocks. It's actually pretty easy puking a 20 card hand back on the table after a cyclonic rift.
But, overall, it's not as bad as you might think it is. Sure, nonland wipes hurt but when they're cast defensively the opponent(s) will be hurt just as much and might have less ability to build back up.
Creature wipes: often, but this doesn't hurt this deck at all.
Nonland board wipes: less, and this hurt the deck way more. However, when this is cast many people get behind some and this deck is known to build up pretty fast. What can be a problem though, is nonland board wipes when Kozilek is costing like 18 to 22 mana. It get's increasingly hard on such occasions. When this happens always look at the lands you have left, most of the time they will have enough utility to make you able to get your machine running again.
Mass bounce: This doesn't hurt the deck at all, you build up like a beast with all those cheap mana rocks. It's actually pretty easy puking a 20 card hand back on the table after a cyclonic rift.
But, overall, it's not as bad as you might think it is. Sure, nonland wipes hurt but when they're cast defensively the opponent(s) will be hurt just as much and might have less ability to build back up.
How about VandalBlast or Creeping Corrosion I've yet to get extensive play testing on my version, but it seems like you would scoop to that unless you have forge.
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
How about VandalBlast or Creeping Corrosion I've yet to get extensive play testing on my version, but it seems like you would scoop to that unless you have forge.
There is really no need to scoop after such an occasion. This deck builds up pretty darn fast and I assume opponents will have better things to do than attack the weakest player. (depends on opponents)
Another thing to consider is, even when you're hit with a stony silence effect or a creeping corrosion effect you're still piloting a Legendary Eldrazi deck that does not care about either. (except for mana cost)
how efficient is the kuldotha forgemaster? How to use him efficiently for tutor? I personally prefer planar portal as I don't need to sac my ramps, or sometimes when options are tight, you can't simply sac 'em
how efficient is the kuldotha forgemaster? How to use him efficiently for tutor? I personally prefer planar portal as I don't need to sac my ramps, or sometimes when options are tight, you can't simply sac 'em
Kuldotha forgemaster is way better than the planar portal cause it puts it on the battlefield. Planar portal is already a HUGE mana investment and it just goes to your hand, it's so slow people will just be bashing your face in when they see you waste that much mana without knowing what you're planning.
The Kuldotha forgemaster is mostly used to just tap, sac tokens preferably and if that is not possible, himself and some mana rocks to get something way better on the board. It will always atleast do this, but when combined with let's say.. Clock of omens/Myr Turbine.. Make tons of myr with this combination then use those myr as sacrifice fodder for kuldotha forgemaster AND as an untap effect for effectivly untapping the forgemaster and using it again. Go grab a doubling cube with the forgemaster, make thousands of mana with the myr (and that clock of omens), go wild, fetch more, draw cards with kozilek. (If you like semi-combo-ing out, fetch a Krak-clan Ironworks and then a Spine of ish sah, combined with lots of mana (thanks to the doubling cube, it's : 5 mana: destroy target permanent, or rather, destroy each opponents field.)
Hey man I got the deck put together and played three games 1v1. First game going in blind, turn 5 koz, turn 7 win. 2nd: Turn 6 Koz, Win turn 7. Game three: turn 5 Koz, scoop. Im really like this. And if i had the mana crypt(still waiting on the guy to trade me) game 1 i had karn i wouldve had that and had koz turn 3 or 4 lol. This deck is so fun to play. Thanks for posting it dude.
Hey man I got the deck put together and played three games 1v1. First game going in blind, turn 5 koz, turn 7 win. 2nd: Turn 6 Koz, Win turn 7. Game three: turn 5 Koz, scoop. Im really like this. And if i had the mana crypt(still waiting on the guy to trade me) game 1 i had karn i wouldve had that and had koz turn 3 or 4 lol. This deck is so fun to play. Thanks for posting it dude.
I was just about to ask the beatdown aspect of this deck lol
Hey man I got the deck put together and played three games 1v1. First game going in blind, turn 5 koz, turn 7 win. 2nd: Turn 6 Koz, Win turn 7. Game three: turn 5 Koz, scoop. Im really like this. And if i had the mana crypt(still waiting on the guy to trade me) game 1 i had karn i wouldve had that and had koz turn 3 or 4 lol. This deck is so fun to play. Thanks for posting it dude.
I was just about to ask the beatdown aspect of this deck lol
regardless, I'd still like to hear from TS
The question is quite broad, what exactly are you interested in knowing? The main aspect of beat-down comes from the legendary Eldrazi / big guys. To strenghten all of it up, there's Echo chamber/mimic vat. And the eventual way is amassing tokens due to untap effects and myr turbine, thopter assembly, .. which can also result in some crazy synergy and combo's you can do with your board. Don't confuse beat-down with mass creature decks. As long as you can hold tempo over the opponents and they have to spend all their resources on stopping you instead of building their own board.. Then you're in beat-down mode!
can you list all of the combos and the mechanics? helps me piloting the deck and decide accordingly.
Woah, there's really a lot of them. I might add a section for it soon but it's hell of a big list. Anything specific you want to do? Anything specific you question why I'm running it?
While Karakas is banned the Minion Reflector + Erratic portal Combo is really cool.
The legend rule would kill Kozilek if you let the token hit before using portal, but if you bounce Kozilek in response to the Token going on the stack you get the token hitting and sticking + the ability to recast Kozilek w/o paying extra mana based on how many times he died.
Minion Reflector can also with things like Blightsteel to really beatdown with extra fatties.
Any other cards like Erratic portal in colorless though?
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
I will repeat this again.
I'm not going to put cards in my deck because they might combo off with two other cards on the field, even if one of those is my Commander. In general it's terrible deck-building and is not about synergy anymore. If you want to do these things play a black deck with lots of tutors and it might work if not responded too.
As for the Blightsteel, he's already 12 mana and proves hard to cast (well, sometimes.) holding him off because you want to put a minion reflector on the field or be able to pay the minion reflector ability cost will reduce the tempo of the deck, how would it benefit from such a thing? If I draw the reflector after Blightsteel colossus is on the field already, it becomes a dead card until I ever draw that Erratic Portal. Can you not see how this makes the deck less synergistic ? Each and one of the other artifacts interact with so much of the deck and has been chosen because of that reason. When they don't, they practically work on their own. (think Relic of Progenitus)
I cannot stress enough how bad Minion Reflector would be in this deck if all it does is combo with Erratic portal and Kozilek, or occasionally bring a second Blightsteel colossus on the field.
If you can not see this, I advise you to test it out over a couple of games and record the progress.
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
-You can use it to disrupt topdeck manipulation, including topdeck tutors.
-It improves your own topdeck manipulation, such as Sensei's Divining Top and Scroll Rack.
-It fills your graveyard with things you can recur later.
-With Mirrorworks, you can slowly recur your entire graveyard, or repeatedly recur one thing. Play the Shredder and copy it, use the original to recur something, then use the copy to get back the original, ready to be cloned again. The best thing about this combo is that it protects itself and gives you extreme advantage over longer games.
-With Rings of Brighthearth, you can also have unlimited recursion. Use Shredder to recur something, then copy the recursion ability. Bring back whatever you want, plus the Shredder that you just sacrificed.
-The above trick can also be used with Petriefied Field and Rings to recur all of your lands. Needless to say, this is very powerful when combined with Buired Ruin or Haunted Fengraf, especially since Rings can copy their abilities as well.
Having colorless infinite recursion in a deck opens up a really robust, resilient wincon in the form of Jester's Cap. It's a great card on its own, but once you have infinite colorless mana and infinite draws, via Rings of Brighthearth+Sensei's Divining Top+Basalt Monolith, or something else, you just need to use your infinite recursion to keep playing Cap until nobody has a library left, and since artifact recursion is built into the combo, it's very difficult to disrupt once it gets going.
Mono Red's Strengths and Mono White's Strengths
I forgot that you deck has less creatures than mine. If you had a lot of creatures hitting the field you would probably be happy to have an extra for 2 mana.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
What other creatures do you run that benefit from Minion Reflector much?
This part makes me see some of the power of Codex Shredder, do you value it above a Myr retriever?
However, in longer games I'd rather use the mana to keep recasting Kozilek and drawing 4 cards a pop instead. It's not like there's certain combo pieces in my grave that I have a need to recur for.
Yeah but is a card spot worth it if I can do this with lands already?
There's also the factor that I might not even be able to recur anything. Think about Ulamog, the infinite gyre shuffling my library. Relic of progenitus popped, someone else's grave hate..
May I first refer you to the whole section devoted to rings of brighthearth in the main thread so you can see how I feel about this situation.
Second, this deck is not made to combo out. Rings + Basalt is the ONLY way to create infinite colorless mana and I hate doing/don't do it in a casual game. Even in competative games I'd rather just bash someone's face in with 46 generated mana and my current hand. Putting more combo's in this deck does not contribute to the whole idea of it. If I want to combo shouldn't I just play Karn, silver golem instead? I'm more of a synergy-guy than a combo-out-sorry-gg kind of guy and this deck is built towards that. ACTUALLY it's meant to prove that colorless shouldn't always be "oh another combo deck.."
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
That all depends on how often you have extra mana, and how reliably the Retriever dies when you want it to. If you're facing lots of combo with topdeck tutors, I'd make the swap. Does Retriever usually have a good target? Shredder creates its own targets if that's an issue.
That's definitely a better play. How often do you top out on mana for a few turns?
Those are always possibilities, but the cards are all good regardless, and if they can't disrupt it, you can really pull ahead, even if you don't have access to Kozilek is tucked or Lignifyed or something.
Yeah, I know you don't like to combo out. I just wanted to point this out as an option. They're all good enough on their own, and in fact, I discovered that interaction in my Diaochan deck by accident after I was already running all of those cards. It's good to know about if you're playing against a deck that uses cheap tactics and you have no other way to win.
Mono Red's Strengths and Mono White's Strengths
You convinced me to run Codex Shredder over Myr retriever, but ATM even myr retriever isn't making the cut (testing Tormod's crypt + relic of progenitus instead of myr retriever + junk diver)
I'll see where I can fit it in for playtesting. ATM it's quite the problem though cause I also want to try Helm of Awakening and Mox Opal to see the effectiveness of the ramp they bring.
I haven't tested them yet but atm Helm of awakening seems golden in a deck with lots of card draw/advantage. And mox opal is a cheap mana rock that will most likely always be effective. Can also easily be put on the field and interact with say.. A clock of omens. Without needing to spend mana on it. Have you had any experience running these?
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
Sure.
There's a large amount of EDH players in my LGS and with a large amount of players come a large amount of variety. There's casual and there's competitive. However.. I do have a main playgroup I play with on a weekly basis, we're quite the competitive group and there's a variety of decks to come with it. There's the obvious Maelstrom wanderer goodstuffs.dec, Azami, lady of scrolls combo, Gruul beatdown, Boros Equipment beatdown, lots and lots of green/blue decks, Combo mimeoplasm that isn't scared of using infect as secondary wincon. An infect deck, etc etc.
There's many decks you might recognize and grasp a certain feel from it without knowing which players pilot them, but I'm here to tell you our playgroup got quite scared of how effective beatdown has become. There's this one truly strong boros beat-down deck that has Aurelia, the warleader as it's general and when that player knows there's a combo deck at the table, that player isn't going to live long. As such our playgroup has evolved, goodstuffs.dec is one of the worst decks you can play and will just paint a target on your head. Therefore lots and lots of "synergy" decks as I called it have appeared packed with a tight mana curve. This can be control, beatdown, combo, anything as long as you know you won't survive not playing anything for 5 turns except for like a kodama's reach.
We usually play with tables of 4 or 5. We find 3 to be not a high enough number for political play and 6 to be too much of a cluster. If a game of 6 is accompanied by 4 combo decks, the games tend to go quite lackluster.
Hence, a table of 4 or a table of 5 is perfect!
As for players and plays. We're all competent enough to pack enough spot removal, counter-spells (even this deck has null brooch), answers and hate (may it be grave-hate or a torpor orb). To stop linear strategies and decks that only work with their general around. Probably all games have atleast one blue player and atleast one green player.
If you're thinking this leaves a low amount of options for deck-building you're very wrong. There's a really strong mono-red Ib halfheart, goblin tactician deck around that can win out of the blue and even competitive tribal decks. There's even a guy building an insect deck and I doubt it will be casual.
As for the casual players around my LGS, I play with them often but find that this deck might pack too much power for it. It turns into archenemy easily.
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
Creature wipes: often, but this doesn't hurt this deck at all.
Nonland board wipes: less, and this hurt the deck way more. However, when this is cast many people get behind some and this deck is known to build up pretty fast. What can be a problem though, is nonland board wipes when Kozilek is costing like 18 to 22 mana. It get's increasingly hard on such occasions. When this happens always look at the lands you have left, most of the time they will have enough utility to make you able to get your machine running again.
Mass bounce: This doesn't hurt the deck at all, you build up like a beast with all those cheap mana rocks. It's actually pretty easy puking a 20 card hand back on the table after a cyclonic rift.
But, overall, it's not as bad as you might think it is. Sure, nonland wipes hurt but when they're cast defensively the opponent(s) will be hurt just as much and might have less ability to build back up.
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
How about VandalBlast or Creeping Corrosion I've yet to get extensive play testing on my version, but it seems like you would scoop to that unless you have forge.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
There is really no need to scoop after such an occasion. This deck builds up pretty darn fast and I assume opponents will have better things to do than attack the weakest player. (depends on opponents)
Another thing to consider is, even when you're hit with a stony silence effect or a creeping corrosion effect you're still piloting a Legendary Eldrazi deck that does not care about either. (except for mana cost)
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
Kuldotha forgemaster is way better than the planar portal cause it puts it on the battlefield. Planar portal is already a HUGE mana investment and it just goes to your hand, it's so slow people will just be bashing your face in when they see you waste that much mana without knowing what you're planning.
The Kuldotha forgemaster is mostly used to just tap, sac tokens preferably and if that is not possible, himself and some mana rocks to get something way better on the board. It will always atleast do this, but when combined with let's say.. Clock of omens/Myr Turbine.. Make tons of myr with this combination then use those myr as sacrifice fodder for kuldotha forgemaster AND as an untap effect for effectivly untapping the forgemaster and using it again. Go grab a doubling cube with the forgemaster, make thousands of mana with the myr (and that clock of omens), go wild, fetch more, draw cards with kozilek. (If you like semi-combo-ing out, fetch a Krak-clan Ironworks and then a Spine of ish sah, combined with lots of mana (thanks to the doubling cube, it's : 5 mana: destroy target permanent, or rather, destroy each opponents field.)
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
I was just about to ask the beatdown aspect of this deck lol
regardless, I'd still like to hear from TS
Yeah haha, the beat down is sick, especially when you have It That Betrays, and Kozilek or Ulamog. It gets crazy if it goes unanswered.
I'm actually surprised you couldn't get him out sooner! No voltaic key/grim monolith? Eldrazi temple or ancient tomb? sol ring/ worn powerstone? Make a few more test runs and you'll notice you can get him out t4 or t3 quite easily even without that mana crypt !
The question is quite broad, what exactly are you interested in knowing? The main aspect of beat-down comes from the legendary Eldrazi / big guys. To strenghten all of it up, there's Echo chamber/mimic vat. And the eventual way is amassing tokens due to untap effects and myr turbine, thopter assembly, .. which can also result in some crazy synergy and combo's you can do with your board. Don't confuse beat-down with mass creature decks. As long as you can hold tempo over the opponents and they have to spend all their resources on stopping you instead of building their own board.. Then you're in beat-down mode!
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
I'm glad you're loving the deck!
Keep in touch with some awesome plays!
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
Woah, there's really a lot of them. I might add a section for it soon but it's hell of a big list. Anything specific you want to do? Anything specific you question why I'm running it?
I'll try and get a list up tomorrow
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.