Except that Helm of Obedience is not in the main decklist and only on the wishlist. Unless you mean Helm of Possession? In which case, you are right! It's a way better option.
Right, Helm of Possession. Got those two guys mixed up there.
First off, before I ask this honest question, I have to say incredible deck and a big thumbs up to you!
I am sorry if this is mentioned here, but I couldn't find this information anywhere on here and I wanted to know if anyone could link me to the official ruling.
I have a Blue/Arti deck with Arcum Dagsson and have the Eye of Ugin in the deck. I was told countless times that you could not tutor Eldrazi Tribal cards with it, and then told other times its allowed. Where in the world could I find the right information?
I have a Blue/Arti deck with Arcum Dagsson and have the Eye of Ugin in the deck. I was told countless times that you could not tutor Eldrazi Tribal cards with it, and then told other times its allowed. Where in the world could I find the right information?
Can you tutor all is dust with it though? I don't understand the tribal mechanic too well.
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Eye of Ugin's search mechanic doesn't actually interact with Eldrazi at all, it merely lets you search for colourless creatures. Its cost reduction does interact with colourless Eldrazi cards, so All is Dust is cheaper to cast when Eye of Ugin is on the field, but you still can't search for All is Dust with it's search ability.
I hope this clarifies Eye of Ugin, and apologies for hijacking this thread.
Thanks, and to get this topic back on track. Would Mimic Vat be worthwhile in this deck at all? Seems a lot of creatures will die from chump blocking, and why not take some cannon fodder or even a booster of some sort?
I love me some mimic vat in my Karn - it's a solid include in nearly any deck, so I'd imagine it'd fare pretty well in here. The vat gets weird though when multiple people have one and triggers stack and resolve - but that's multiplayer for ya !
Also - @juwdah: if it's cool - next time I edit Karn, I'll put a link to this list up for interested parties.
First off, before I ask this honest question, I have to say incredible deck and a big thumbs up to you!
I am sorry if this is mentioned here, but I couldn't find this information anywhere on here and I wanted to know if anyone could link me to the official ruling.
I have a Blue/Arti deck with Arcum Dagsson and have the Eye of Ugin in the deck. I was told countless times that you could not tutor Eldrazi Tribal cards with it, and then told other times its allowed. Where in the world could I find the right information?
Eye of Ugin's search mechanic doesn't actually interact with Eldrazi at all, it merely lets you search for colourless creatures. Its cost reduction does interact with colourless Eldrazi cards, so All is Dust is cheaper to cast when Eye of Ugin is on the field, but you still can't search for All is Dust with it's search ability.
I hope this clarifies Eye of Ugin, and apologies for hijacking this thread.
Thank you gelf for clearing that out for them!
The reason I listed All is dust next to the Eye of Ugin in the card explanation section is because, like Gelf stated, that it reduces the cost of it, making All is Dust cost 5 instead of 7.
I'll edit that part in the explanation to make it 100% clear to prevent further confusions.
Thanks, and to get this topic back on track. Would Mimic Vat be worthwhile in this deck at all? Seems a lot of creatures will die from chump blocking, and why not take some cannon fodder or even a booster of some sort?
I love me some mimic vat in my Karn - it's a solid include in nearly any deck, so I'd imagine it'd fare pretty well in here. The vat gets weird though when multiple people have one and triggers stack and resolve - but that's multiplayer for ya !
Personally I have found Mimic vat to be a powerhouse.. On occasion.
It went out of the list when it was initially a Karn, silver golem list because it didn't contribute to the cause and was more often than not a dead card in my hand.
I haven't thought about putting it back in because of the bad experiences I had with it but when thinking about it, I should give it a go. It can actually contribute to the beat-down aspect pretty damn well and is overall such a great card combined with the amount of untap effects this deck brings. It might even be the game-ender.
I will test this as soon as possible and will surely return with the appropriate results.
So I'm curious. Why do you want a mana crypt so bad? Like why is it good and wha t would you replace for it?
It's kind of a no brainer for me.
It can result in a turn 3 Kozilek instead of a turn 5.
In a deck that works on tempo, Mana crypt is golden. You should know the power that they call Sol ring? This is a better Sol ring in here. ("woah! hold your horses!") This is still EDH and when you're playing a deck that likes to put a "countdown-clock" on the game, a chance of taking 3 damage only once each turn is something so futile, it's ignored. Life is a resource. Keep that in mind!
If you're still not convinced and scared of the life-loss, there's a chance it's accompanied by cards like Pristine talisman and Platinum Emperion to negate the damage.
I cannot stress enough how important mana rocks are that tap for more than one. Clock of omens with the pristine talisman is, however fun it is, only half the amount of mana you can create with Clock of omens combined with a Mana crypt. And in the early stages of the game, it just brings out Kozilek, the butcher so much faster, also refilling your hand.. so much faster.
What would I take out?
Probably the old man himself, Karn, silver Golem.
It's such a nostalgic piece and as such is surviving longer than it should. It doesn't bring anything to the deck anymore except "being able to animate my board and swing."
However, that's not even the case anymore. This deck runs more mana rocks than an original Karn build, and that board that I want to animate (as soon as possible) will be tapped out because I need the mana to animate it.
It's a hard cut, but a solid one if you want to make it.
Love the fact you respond to as many people as you can. I like how both of our decks started with Karn...then you went beatdown and I went control with Arcum Dagsson, lol. My deck is a bit different, because its for leagues at my local shop and allows a sideboard (Spawnsire of Ulamog ultimate anyone?)
My only question is, how are you able to use Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in a mono deck, or is it legal since no symbols are in it?
I found a guy at my shop who has both Mana Crypts im trying to get the judge promo from him but hes being difficult lol. I think i got lucky finding one so easily
My only question is, how are you able to use Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in a mono deck, or is it legal since no symbols are in it?
Exactly, it doesn't have a color identity because there are no symbols on it. It's the same reason you can play Windswept Heath and Misty Rainforest in a monogreen deck.
Love the fact you respond to as many people as you can. I like how both of our decks started with Karn...then you went beatdown and I went control with Arcum Dagsson, lol. My deck is a bit different, because its for leagues at my local shop and allows a sideboard (Spawnsire of Ulamog ultimate anyone?)
My only question is, how are you able to use Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in a mono deck, or is it legal since no symbols are in it?
Exactly, it doesn't have a color identity because there are no symbols on it. It's the same reason you can play Windswept Heath and Misty Rainforest in a monogreen deck.
Exactly! I actually had a couple of off-black decks also carrying urborg, tomb of yawgmoth with them due to my love for maze of ith
And like Giodante said, Fetches are a cool tech for deck thinning in a mono/duo colored deck. If you're blue you can easily take Flooded strand, polluted delta, Scalding Tarn and Misty Rainforest, which without any trouble, thin the deck down for you, scaling the percentage on drawing more non-land cards. They are also easily abused with Crucible of worlds, Sun titan, etc..
I take it your Arcum Daggson runs quite some mana rocks? And as such has a lower land-count than standard EDH decks? If so, the amount of thinning fetches could do are awesome.
Just remember, as long as it has no colored mana symbol on it, it's legal.
I found a guy at my shop who has both Mana Crypts im trying to get the judge promo from him but hes being difficult lol. I think i got lucky finding one so easily
I'm jealous. How about you get one for me, and I, in return.. Will send you a picture of a cat.
How's that? Sound reasonable to you?
A small note: I love the older version of mana crypt more, I'm a sucker for old card frame. Mono-brown people! That, and, I have a small distaste for those foils that "bend".
Definitely good to know. I don't have all of those fetchlands (though I do own a Scalding Tarn). I just started playing when Gatecrash came out, so I am waaay behind the curve. Still learning for the most part. Here is my deck, if you ever get bored enough to check it out.
Definitely good to know. I don't have all of those fetchlands (though I do own a Scalding Tarn). I just started playing when Gatecrash came out, so I am waaay behind the curve. Still learning for the most part. Here is my deck, if you ever get bored enough to check it out.
Yeah i think im going to get the older one, trading two voice of resurgence for it. Gonna throw it in there see how i like it.
It's definitely a good trade! Mana crypt will only raise in price while voice of resurgence will probably drop sooner or later. Depending on modern I suppose.
Thanks, I replied in response to some of what you suggested. Though there were lots of suggestions, you would be surprised how well it has run so far. Just a bit slow, though.
I was wondering why you don't have Hall of the bandit lord in your deck? It's basically 3 life: make someone sac 4 permanents.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
I was wondering why you don't have Hall of the bandit lord in your deck? It's basically 3 life: make someone sac 4 permanents.
I had it.
It basically said "pay 3 life, make someone sac 4 permanents, ...The next turn"
Come into play tapped is a *****. It wrecks ramp IMO. My playgroup had this "hall of the bandit lord period" once because they were amazed by it. Took like a day to figure out how crappy it actually is on the field. It might give haste but a turn sooner is always better. Definitely with Kozilek refilling that hand sooner.
Edit: this might actually need more explanation.
If this is played on turn 1, to negate the drawback of Cipt as much as possible, it will be needed to cast all the mana rocks in the next occuring turns. This means t2, t3, t4 = 9 damage. And chances are, kozilek came t5, which would be 12 damage. O.K life is a resource, but this is pulling it. The rest of the game it will be hard to use as a mana source and will only ever be used to give Kozilek haste.
What's even worse is. That when you sacrifice all that life, it's just a pongify away from being useless. P o n g i f y. Kozilek is easy to remove and we all know this. This thread was written to prove that it takes the removal as a pro instead of a con. Going all ballers with Hall of the bandit lord on your general will just get you killed. And yes, they will see it coming because no matter what turn you played it in, it will be there for a turn already because of the come into play tapped. There will be untapped lands waiting for you and there will be a response. Be sure of that.
Going all ballers with Hall of the bandit lord on your general will just get you killed. And yes, they will see it coming because no matter what turn you played it in, it will be there for a turn already because of the come into play tapped. There will be untapped lands waiting for you and there will be a response. Be sure of that.
I like this explanation. I play an Azusa deck that loves to vomit out Eldrazi (I run 4, plus Eldrazi Conscription and Eye of Ugin, plus lots of creature and land tutors), as well as Giant Adaphage, so the haste is amazing there, and I don't mind playing HotBL in that deck because it usually doesn't slow me down and I can easily recur both Hall and any of my creatures. So naturally, I just assumed Hall would be amazing in your deck, but I think you're right. If you're playing against competent players, someone will almost always have an instant speed response. In Azusa, it's different, because my plan is to play a huge threat every single turn, so they quickly run out of responses, but when you're only playing Kozilek, I can see how it can be a problem.
I like this explanation. I play an Azusa deck that loves to vomit out Eldrazi (I run 4, plus Eldrazi Conscription and Eye of Ugin, plus lots of creature and land tutors), as well as Giant Adaphage, so the haste is amazing there, and I don't mind playing HotBL in that deck because it usually doesn't slow me down and I can easily recur both Hall and any of my creatures. So naturally, I just assumed Hall would be amazing in your deck, but I think you're right. If you're playing against competent players, someone will almost always have an instant speed response. In Azusa, it's different, because my plan is to play a huge threat every single turn, so they quickly run out of responses, but when you're only playing Kozilek, I can see how it can be a problem.
Your azusa seems scary. I have always feared mono-green, it's such a powerhouse against most of my decks. Most green cards rape me.
I added a little section in the main thread about current play-testing.
A good read!
Also, while it's a long shot, deserted temple can make your hall a surprise, should you be lucky enough to draw both lol
Well Minion Reflector would kill Kozilek because of the legend rule. And Karakas is banned. Erratic Portal is a cool card though. I'm sure some players would find room for it.
Well Minion Reflector would kill Kozilek because of the legend rule. And Karakas is banned. Erratic Portal is a cool card though. I'm sure some players would find room for it.
As XeroxedFool explained, the minion reflector would be really terrible. And if you read the main thread at the "Currently Testing" section, you can see that I'm testing the Erratic portal. It should be really great with Kozilek and the amount of untap effects I have. It could even work as a way to get rid of opponents creatures!
The thread gets updated regularly, if you're interested go take a look at the new sections
Right, Helm of Possession. Got those two guys mixed up there.
I am sorry if this is mentioned here, but I couldn't find this information anywhere on here and I wanted to know if anyone could link me to the official ruling.
I have a Blue/Arti deck with Arcum Dagsson and have the Eye of Ugin in the deck. I was told countless times that you could not tutor Eldrazi Tribal cards with it, and then told other times its allowed. Where in the world could I find the right information?
Eye of Ugin:
Colorless Eldrazi spells you cast cost {2} less to cast.
{7}, {T}: Search your library for a colorless creature card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
Read the card Or ask in the Magic Rulings forum.
Can you tutor all is dust with it though? I don't understand the tribal mechanic too well.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
All is Dust is not a creature card, it's a sorcery card. Eldrazi gives it a creature type, but that doesn't make it a creature.
Compare to Wort, Boggart Aunty:
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may return target Goblin card from your graveyard to your hand.
So that lets you return any card with the type 'Goblin', including Goblin Guide, Fodder Launch and Crib Swap as examples.
Eye of Ugin's search mechanic doesn't actually interact with Eldrazi at all, it merely lets you search for colourless creatures. Its cost reduction does interact with colourless Eldrazi cards, so All is Dust is cheaper to cast when Eye of Ugin is on the field, but you still can't search for All is Dust with it's search ability.
I hope this clarifies Eye of Ugin, and apologies for hijacking this thread.
Also - @juwdah: if it's cool - next time I edit Karn, I'll put a link to this list up for interested parties.
Thank you gelf for clearing that out for them!
The reason I listed All is dust next to the Eye of Ugin in the card explanation section is because, like Gelf stated, that it reduces the cost of it, making All is Dust cost 5 instead of 7.
I'll edit that part in the explanation to make it 100% clear to prevent further confusions.
Personally I have found Mimic vat to be a powerhouse.. On occasion.
It went out of the list when it was initially a Karn, silver golem list because it didn't contribute to the cause and was more often than not a dead card in my hand.
I haven't thought about putting it back in because of the bad experiences I had with it but when thinking about it, I should give it a go. It can actually contribute to the beat-down aspect pretty damn well and is overall such a great card combined with the amount of untap effects this deck brings. It might even be the game-ender.
I will test this as soon as possible and will surely return with the appropriate results.
Yeah, sure thing!
I'll actually edit the thread right now and put a link of your Karn, silver golem Primer in it!
It's kind of a no brainer for me.
It can result in a turn 3 Kozilek instead of a turn 5.
In a deck that works on tempo, Mana crypt is golden. You should know the power that they call Sol ring? This is a better Sol ring in here. ("woah! hold your horses!") This is still EDH and when you're playing a deck that likes to put a "countdown-clock" on the game, a chance of taking 3 damage only once each turn is something so futile, it's ignored. Life is a resource. Keep that in mind!
If you're still not convinced and scared of the life-loss, there's a chance it's accompanied by cards like Pristine talisman and Platinum Emperion to negate the damage.
I cannot stress enough how important mana rocks are that tap for more than one. Clock of omens with the pristine talisman is, however fun it is, only half the amount of mana you can create with Clock of omens combined with a Mana crypt. And in the early stages of the game, it just brings out Kozilek, the butcher so much faster, also refilling your hand.. so much faster.
What would I take out?
Probably the old man himself, Karn, silver Golem.
It's such a nostalgic piece and as such is surviving longer than it should. It doesn't bring anything to the deck anymore except "being able to animate my board and swing."
However, that's not even the case anymore. This deck runs more mana rocks than an original Karn build, and that board that I want to animate (as soon as possible) will be tapped out because I need the mana to animate it.
It's a hard cut, but a solid one if you want to make it.
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
My only question is, how are you able to use Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in a mono deck, or is it legal since no symbols are in it?
Exactly, it doesn't have a color identity because there are no symbols on it. It's the same reason you can play Windswept Heath and Misty Rainforest in a monogreen deck.
Mono Red's Strengths and Mono White's Strengths
Exactly! I actually had a couple of off-black decks also carrying urborg, tomb of yawgmoth with them due to my love for maze of ith
And like Giodante said, Fetches are a cool tech for deck thinning in a mono/duo colored deck. If you're blue you can easily take Flooded strand, polluted delta, Scalding Tarn and Misty Rainforest, which without any trouble, thin the deck down for you, scaling the percentage on drawing more non-land cards. They are also easily abused with Crucible of worlds, Sun titan, etc..
I take it your Arcum Daggson runs quite some mana rocks? And as such has a lower land-count than standard EDH decks? If so, the amount of thinning fetches could do are awesome.
Just remember, as long as it has no colored mana symbol on it, it's legal.
I'm jealous. How about you get one for me, and I, in return..
Will send you a picture of a cat.
How's that? Sound reasonable to you?
A small note: I love the older version of mana crypt more, I'm a sucker for old card frame. Mono-brown people! That, and, I have a small distaste for those foils that "bend".
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
Arcum Dagsson Blue/Artifact Deck
I wrote a reply!
Forgot my card tags at first though, heh.
It's definitely a good trade! Mana crypt will only raise in price while voice of resurgence will probably drop sooner or later. Depending on modern I suppose.
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
I had it.
It basically said "pay 3 life, make someone sac 4 permanents, ...The next turn"
Come into play tapped is a *****. It wrecks ramp IMO. My playgroup had this "hall of the bandit lord period" once because they were amazed by it. Took like a day to figure out how crappy it actually is on the field. It might give haste but a turn sooner is always better. Definitely with Kozilek refilling that hand sooner.
Edit: this might actually need more explanation.
If this is played on turn 1, to negate the drawback of Cipt as much as possible, it will be needed to cast all the mana rocks in the next occuring turns. This means t2, t3, t4 = 9 damage. And chances are, kozilek came t5, which would be 12 damage. O.K life is a resource, but this is pulling it. The rest of the game it will be hard to use as a mana source and will only ever be used to give Kozilek haste.
What's even worse is. That when you sacrifice all that life, it's just a pongify away from being useless. P o n g i f y. Kozilek is easy to remove and we all know this. This thread was written to prove that it takes the removal as a pro instead of a con. Going all ballers with Hall of the bandit lord on your general will just get you killed. And yes, they will see it coming because no matter what turn you played it in, it will be there for a turn already because of the come into play tapped. There will be untapped lands waiting for you and there will be a response. Be sure of that.
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
I like this explanation. I play an Azusa deck that loves to vomit out Eldrazi (I run 4, plus Eldrazi Conscription and Eye of Ugin, plus lots of creature and land tutors), as well as Giant Adaphage, so the haste is amazing there, and I don't mind playing HotBL in that deck because it usually doesn't slow me down and I can easily recur both Hall and any of my creatures. So naturally, I just assumed Hall would be amazing in your deck, but I think you're right. If you're playing against competent players, someone will almost always have an instant speed response. In Azusa, it's different, because my plan is to play a huge threat every single turn, so they quickly run out of responses, but when you're only playing Kozilek, I can see how it can be a problem.
Mono Red's Strengths and Mono White's Strengths
Your azusa seems scary. I have always feared mono-green, it's such a powerhouse against most of my decks. Most green cards rape me.
I added a little section in the main thread about current play-testing.
A good read!
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
Also, while it's a long shot, deserted temple can make your hall a surprise, should you be lucky enough to draw both lol
http://officeofstrategicinfluence.com/spam/ <---- kills spam, fyi.
Well Minion Reflector would kill Kozilek because of the legend rule. And Karakas is banned. Erratic Portal is a cool card though. I'm sure some players would find room for it.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
As XeroxedFool explained, the minion reflector would be really terrible. And if you read the main thread at the "Currently Testing" section, you can see that I'm testing the Erratic portal. It should be really great with Kozilek and the amount of untap effects I have. It could even work as a way to get rid of opponents creatures!
The thread gets updated regularly, if you're interested go take a look at the new sections
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.