Basis of the Deck: Ever run across Mishra and thought "that card seems cool but sadly it is unplayble in EDH"? Wrong! Even if it seems unplayble at the first glance, when you take a closer look you might be able to notice the combo. That's right, (for those of you who already don't know), Mishra comboes with Nether Void, Possibility Storm and the ilk.
How you might ask? Simple! Whenever you cast an artifact spell with Mishra and Nether Void out, the both trigger and you get to decide the order. Now, if you stack them with Mishra on bottom and Nether Void on top, you can let Nether Void counter your artifact, and then Mishra's ability searches your hand, library and graveyard for cards with same name and abracadabra! There is one! It's almost like magic! (No Pun intended.)
Deck Plan: For starters, this deck is mainly stax with a tinge of combo in it. Those of you who don't know what stax is, check out Phil's Stax Primer made of 100% awesomeness: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=477828&
In short, this deck plays things that make casting spells really difficult, but taking advantage of Mishra's unique ability with Nether Void, leaves me able to still do something. This is achieved by mana denial and getting rid of all those pesky creatures.
Combos and synergies: Like you might have already noticed, Mishra himself also provides some combo-potential and his artifact-heavy strategy also fits for few other combo-plans.
Firstly, Mishra + Nether Void: If you put the triggers Nether Void > Mishra, first NV counters your artifact, then Mishra returns it to battlefield. Easy as that.
Also, another important one is Mishra + Possibility Storm: You cast an artifact, Possibility Storm puts it on bottom of your library, lets ou cast another artifact instead, then Mishra searches you library for the first artifact and puts it on the battlefield. Also, this combo works nicely with Nether Void, since when you cast your second artifact off Possilibty Storm, you first let Nether Void counter that spell and then Mishra searches for ti too, and finds one in your graveyard. (And also as a side effect, most of your opponents are perplexed after witnessing this one.)
Goblin Welder (+ Myr Turbine): This card single-handedly beats many other cards in the deck. It gets rid of useless artifacts AND returns more useful artifacts to battlefield. Trade unneeded Signet to Smokestacks? Sure can do! Also, Myr Turbine will be there to poop out artifact tokens for Welder to trade for more useful things...
Smokestack + Myr Turbine/Trading Post/Kher Keep: Suddenly your opponents are forced to sacrifice permanents while all you keep on feeding tokens to smokestacks. Also, if you have crucible out you can feed a land to it too.
I don't like Prototype Portal. Maybe is just me, but which artifacts are worth + 4 mana investiment to copy each turn, and sometimes have Prototype Portal destroyed and your artifact exiled?
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"Someday, a sign image will be placed. But it won't be today, and probably not tomorrow."
IRL EDH Decks:
UU Sakashima, Shapeshifter's Reflection UU
BB Maralen of the Empty Lives, Stax's DesireBB
GG Shisato, Master Poisoner GG
WUBRG In Solitude, Where We are Not Alone (Mirror Gallery Legends)GRBUW
I'll second the use of Bloodghast and add in Nether Traitor. With a stax deck like this you'll be able to recur Traitor consistently as more fuel for the fire.
Well, they seem okay, but the question is what to remove?
This always the question you should keep in mind when giving others advice: Instead of saying what to put in, say what they should replace with card X.
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Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
works well with Mishra when you cast the artifact putting mishra's trigger on the stack first then the PS second resolving the PS then get the artifact with mishra back from the deck
Anyways, got suggestions what to remove? You know how to play stax and are good at it, don't even think of denying it. I've been thinking something like Prototype Portal maybe should be removed, but I am not sure...
I have 0 exp when it comes to stax decks, never played with one. This is my first attempt to do one.
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Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
It's not like We want to say "Replace X for Y because is better", is more like "Look to all these options and choice what fits better in your play style/overall strategy".
Well, if you can, trying having some games are the best way of figure:
-Is my deck doing what is supposed to do?
-Which manner I pretend to lock the table?
-Which cards advance my plan somehow?
-Which cards I always wants to cast if possible?
-These cards are not working:
*Should I remove then?
*Or change somenthing to make the card work.
Cloud Key --> Mana Rocks: Sometimes you will want to cast a spell and Key doesn't help, sometimes you will cast a spell with reduced cost where a mana rock would do the same thing, and sometimes you cast spells when Key is better(two or more spells, mana locks, etc). Even choosing the predominant type(cof, cof, artifacts), you have others spells that are great for casting, limiting the Key's usefulness.
Darksteel Forge --> Possibility Storm Aside from cheating with Goblin Welder, this eight mana does-nothing artifact will enter too late on the battlefield, where or you locked the table or you are behind and wants anything but this artifact protection. Possibility Storm combos with Mishra and/or tax effects like Nether Void or Lodestone Golem, meaning players must pay the tax cost for spells played with Storm.
Howling Mine --> Lim-Dûl's Vault: Because I don't want give my opponents resources to playing against my stax pieces. Vault provides instant library manipulation.
Prototype Portal --> Jace, the Mind Sculptor: As I stated some posts above, I don't like Portal because it's too much effort for a little advantage. Jace, in other hand, paints a large target on you but the incremental advantage worth the hate.
Solemn Simulacrum --> Pendrell Mists: With enough mana sources, this sad robot becomes outclassed. Mists are a creature control that tap lands as well.
Sorry if I can't elaborate better reasons for some changes.
I have others ideas, but that will only work if the deck leads toward a Stasis-like Control.
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"Someday, a sign image will be placed. But it won't be today, and probably not tomorrow."
IRL EDH Decks:
UU Sakashima, Shapeshifter's Reflection UU
BB Maralen of the Empty Lives, Stax's DesireBB
GG Shisato, Master Poisoner GG
WUBRG In Solitude, Where We are Not Alone (Mirror Gallery Legends)GRBUW
It's not like We want to say "Replace X for Y because is better", is more like "Look to all these options and choice what fits better in your play style/overall strategy".
Well, if you can, trying having some games are the best way of figure:
-Is my deck doing what is supposed to do?
-Which manner I pretend to lock the table?
-Which cards advance my plan somehow?
-Which cards I always wants to cast if possible?
-These cards are not working:
*Should I remove then?
*Or change something to make the card work.
Yeah, I know how you feel and most of the time it just simple isn't that something is strictly better than some other card. But, I still appreciate a lot of your input for what to remove and what to include instead.
Anyways, I want(ed) my deck to be something like 80% stax and 20% combo.
But, I just made some changes thanks to your suggestions, I had earlier been thinking about making some of those changes (like removing Sad Robot for something else, just like the prototype portal.) I'm still not convinced about removing Darksteel Forge (yet), but I'm going to think about it and ponder if I should just do it.
Still, once more: Thank you for you thoughts and opinions, they matter LOT to me.
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Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
Suggestions whether to add more cogs due Salvaging Station or to remove the package?
If to add, what should be added? Necrogen Spellbomb seems at least good to me...
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Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
How do you actually win? Aside planewalkers ultimates, I see lots of stax-lock-combo, but nothing that really make someone lose.
About Salvaging Station, It's up to you say if you want it or not.
For example, I wanted to used the salvage package in my Maralen Stax, I was always happy when the engine was working.
But now I removed Station and some trinkets because it has some 'problems':
1)It was too slow for my taste/LGS.
2)I play with Null Rod AND Damping Matrix as lock pieces so more often the Salvaging Package was turned off.
3)Replaced for cards that advance better my strategy.
I'm a little sad, but I think the deck is now better, and maybe someday they can return.
How do you actually win? Aside planewalkers ultimates, I see lots of stax-lock-combo, but nothing that really make someone lose.
Well, I've been thinking the same and have yet to found my win-con. At the moment, it is either PW ultimates or beat-down with Mishra.
About Salvaging Station, It's up to you say if you want it or not.
For example, I wanted to used the salvage package in my Maralen Stax, I was always happy when the engine was working.
But now I removed Station and some trinkets because it has some 'problems':
1)It was too slow for my taste/LGS.
2)I play with Null Rod AND Damping Matrix as lock pieces so more often the Salvaging Package was turned off.
3)Replaced for cards that advance better my strategy.
I'm a little sad, but I think the deck is now better, and maybe someday they can return.
Well, I guess I just have test my deck more and see if it is working or not.
I can't see how the counterbalance help me winning the game more, besides randomly countering a spell. I initially had Gargoyle in my deck, but thought that he'd be too expensive so I cut him off.
Well, I've been thinking the same and have yet to found my win-con. At the moment, it is either PW ultimates or beat-down with Mishra.
Planeswalker ultimates are not a bad choice for winning, if you focus on win with them. On stax, you have all Life Points time to reach them.
I feel that Smokestack is a little off-piece because you don't have others sacrifice engines to support him.
Hmmh? Goblin Assault, Trading Post and Crucible are not enough? What are your suggestion to add, besides the obvious Bitterblossom?
I see that my comment caused a little misunderstanding, let me rewrite: I feel that Smokestack is a off-piece because you don't have many others things that force players sacrifice cards to make worth.
Well, I was thinking again about Smokestack in the list and I reached only one other reply: Sometimes will be useful, and sometimes you will want another type of stax card; so it's become a question of personal preference.
... not a bad idea, must have slipped my mind while scetching the deck. Thank you.
Maybe something like Staff of Nin and Mind's Eye?
I see that my comment caused a little misunderstanding, let me rewrite: I feel that Smokestack is a off-piece because you don't have many others things that force players sacrifice cards to make worth.
Well, I was thinking again about Smokestack in the list and I reached only one other reply: Sometimes will be useful, and sometimes you will want another type of stax card; so it's become a question of personal preference.
Oh, now I see what you meant. I really like it would like to make it work, so I'd rather add cards to support more the sacrifice-plan than remove it. I already have Tabernacle x 2 (both as a land and as an enchantment), but if you have any other cards in your mind that work well with the tactic, I'd welcome them.
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Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
Possibility Storm opens the door enable a lot of Broken things to do in conjunction with Mishra. Good Find. I'm not sure how oppressive you're trying to make this deck, but considering the real tempo gain from this deck comes from being able to basically cascade with no limit on cmc due to Possibility storm. With that in mind i would whittle my artifact suite to be as high impact as possible or Finishers(think Blightsteel Colossus, or even Ulamog).Durdling with Salvaging Station doesn't seem attractive in this build.
I would revisit the post about Nullstone Gargoyle in this case. I would try to limit the amount of Non-Artifact spells to curve between 1-3, so you can cast them under Nether Void easily and more importantly, Reliably. Cards like War's Toll, and Stranglehold are nice, but may not always come at relevant times, and more times than not you have abetter use of 4 mana than a do nothing Enchantment or an enchantment that hinders your ability to react, since you're the control deck at the table, let alone having to pay 7 for it worst case scenario.
Also, in my testing with Mishra I was underwhelmed by Blood Funnel. More time than not it was a liability, because if you don't have Mishra online with it you can't cast anything or are reliant on a token producer, and even then you basically Arcane Laboratory yourself. With Nether Void and Possibility Storm as your enablers you don't leave yourself open to kicking yourself out of the game or your stax backfiring.
Have you thought of using kormus bell along with your Urborg and Cursed totem? this will lock out the lands while you sit comfortably behind your artifact mana, and keep casting spells while your opponents weap behind your cascading madness.
Sorry for the rant, but i see a lot of un-explored Potential in the possibility Storm Route for this build. Good luck. I will be following this while also brewing my own.
It may be a bit of a Rube Goldberg device, but if you can assemble Blood Funnel, Tidespout Tyrant, and Mishra any combination of two artifacts that cost 2cc or less will yield an infinite storm count. If one of those artifacts happens to be Mortarpod, it can be an infinite damage loop.
I look at Blood Funnel as a combo piece and not much else, and as such unless i can get great use out of it I'm not likely to play it until I'm ready to show my opponents what happens when I set the first piece of the device in motion.
Possibility Storm opens the door enable a lot of Broken things to do in conjunction with Mishra. Good Find. I'm not sure how oppressive you're trying to make this deck, but considering the real tempo gain from this deck comes from being able to basically cascade with no limit on cmc due to Possibility storm. With that in mind i would whittle my artifact suite to be as high impact as possible or Finishers(think Blightsteel Colossus, or even Ulamog).Durdling with Salvaging Station doesn't seem attractive in this build.
I would revisit the post about Nullstone Gargoyle in this case. I would try to limit the amount of Non-Artifact spells to curve between 1-3, so you can cast them under Nether Void easily and more importantly, Reliably. Cards like War's Toll, and Stranglehold are nice, but may not always come at relevant times, and more times than not you have abetter use of 4 mana than a do nothing Enchantment or an enchantment that hinders your ability to react, since you're the control deck at the table, let alone having to pay 7 for it worst case scenario.
Also, in my testing with Mishra I was underwhelmed by Blood Funnel. More time than not it was a liability, because if you don't have Mishra online with it you can't cast anything or are reliant on a token producer, and even then you basically Arcane Laboratory yourself. With Nether Void and Possibility Storm as your enablers you don't leave yourself open to kicking yourself out of the game or your stax backfiring.
Have you thought of using kormus bell along with your Urborg and Cursed totem? this will lock out the lands while you sit comfortably behind your artifact mana, and keep casting spells while your opponents weap behind your cascading madness.
Sorry for the rant, but i see a lot of un-explored Potential in the possibility Storm Route for this build. Good luck. I will be following this while also brewing my own.
Yeah, I've really been thinking of removing the Salvaging Station and most of the cogs from this deck and thinking of still giving a shot to Nullstone Gargoyle.
Also, how does War's Toll, Stranglehold and the ilk hinder my game? They all effect my opponents, but not me and make it harder for them to get or play the answers to my stax-pieces...
Also about the Kormus Bell, the card ends up working as a armageddon with any of the Tabernacle-effects. They can't tap them for mana to save themselves. The thing is, is it too nasty and is it any effective all by itself, without Urborg and Cursed Totem/Tabernacle/Pendrell Mists?
It may be a bit of a Rube Goldberg device, but if you can assemble Blood Funnel, Tidespout Tyrant, and Mishra any combination of two artifacts that cost 2cc or less will yield an infinite storm count. If one of those artifacts happens to be Mortarpod, it can be an infinite damage loop.
I look at Blood Funnel as a combo piece and not much else, and as such unless i can get great use out of it I'm not likely to play it until I'm ready to show my opponents what happens when I set the first piece of the device in motion.
Yeah, I had the Tidespout Tyrant -combo, but then I decided to make the less combo and more stax and took it out.
Also, I'll be keeping an eye on the Blood Funnel and test whether it really is worth it, but most of the times, I never cast it unless I have Mishra in play and there is low chance of removal hitting Mishra.
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Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
Yeah, I've really been thinking of removing the Salvaging Station and most of the cogs from this deck and thinking of still giving a shot to Nullstone Gargoyle.
Also, how does War's Toll, Stranglehold and the ilk hinder my game? They all effect my opponents, but not me and make it harder for them to get or play the answers to my stax-pieces...
War's Toll: you have your own counterspells. Expensive ones at that. Stranglehold: does absolutely nothing to the board state or lock anyone out of a game except MAYBE Zur.
Also about the Kormus Bell, the card ends up working as a armageddon with any of the Tabernacle-effects. They can't tap them for mana to save themselves. The thing is, is it too nasty and is it any effective all by itself, without Urborg and Cursed Totem/Tabernacle/Pendrell Mists?
It was just a soft suggestion for a fun Lock combo most people don't see coming, since the other 2 pieces are fairly good on their own.I mean look at how good Salvaging station is on it's own. let's not get too dismissive. I mean you have to play bad cards like spellbombs in a big mana format where you're lucky to kill a majority of things with said spellbomb outside of the combo.
Yeah, I had the Tidespout Tyrant -combo, but then I decided to make the less combo and more stax and took it out.
Also, I'll be keeping an eye on the Blood Funnel and test whether it really is worth it, but most of the times, I never cast it unless I have Mishra in play and there is low chance of removal hitting Mishra.
War's Toll: you have your own counterspells. Expensive ones at that. Stranglehold: does absolutely nothing to the board state or lock anyone out of a game except MAYBE Zur.
WT: Yeah, but if I can force my opponent to use all their mana in one phase, it really limits their options. Stranglehold doesn't affect the board state at all, just makes all tutors and fetchlands and such useless, which are REALLY abundant around here.
And besides, if you saw my decklist, I don't really run many counters in it, only two that are both tad expensive but uncounterable by my NV and ilk.
It was just a soft suggestion for a fun Lock combo most people don't see coming, since the other 2 pieces are fairly good on their own. I mean look at how good Salvaging station is on it's own. let's not get too dismissive. I mean you have to play bad cards like spellbombs in a big mana format where you're lucky to kill a majority of things with said spellbomb outside of the combo.
Yeah, removing someone's graveyard and cantriping for 1 mana is really bad./sarcasm
Spellbombs are not meant to kill anyone, just like my lands nor my Nether Void. They just help me with limiting my opponents options.
And like I said earlier, I've been planning to remove Salvaging Station...
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Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
Do you prefer focus on forced sacrifice plan or forced tapped plan?
Do you accept planewalkers as winning conditions?
Do you have any problem/dislike MLD?
I will use your response as basis for my next major card replacing suggestion.
For now, only these opinions behind:
Perplex --> Dimir Machinations: Thinking about Dobes's post about Possibility Storm, these change can be useful somehow. Both are 3CMC tutors, but one is instant and the other sorcery. What this change? Well, cast both with Storm on field and see by yourself.
Basis of the Deck: Ever run across Mishra and thought "that card seems cool but sadly it is unplayble in EDH"? Wrong! Even if it seems unplayble at the first glance, when you take a closer look you might be able to notice the combo. That's right, (for those of you who already don't know), Mishra comboes with Nether Void, Possibility Storm and the ilk.
How you might ask? Simple! Whenever you cast an artifact spell with Mishra and Nether Void out, the both trigger and you get to decide the order. Now, if you stack them with Mishra on bottom and Nether Void on top, you can let Nether Void counter your artifact, and then Mishra's ability searches your hand, library and graveyard for cards with same name and abracadabra! There is one! It's almost like magic! (
NoPun intended.)Deck Plan: For starters, this deck is mainly stax with a tinge of combo in it. Those of you who don't know what stax is, check out Phil's Stax Primer made of 100% awesomeness: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=477828&
In short, this deck plays things that make casting spells really difficult, but taking advantage of Mishra's unique ability with Nether Void, leaves me able to still do something. This is achieved by mana denial and getting rid of all those pesky creatures.
Combos and synergies: Like you might have already noticed, Mishra himself also provides some combo-potential and his artifact-heavy strategy also fits for few other combo-plans.
Firstly, Mishra + Nether Void: If you put the triggers Nether Void > Mishra, first NV counters your artifact, then Mishra returns it to battlefield. Easy as that.
Also, another important one is Mishra + Possibility Storm: You cast an artifact, Possibility Storm puts it on bottom of your library, lets ou cast another artifact instead, then Mishra searches you library for the first artifact and puts it on the battlefield. Also, this combo works nicely with Nether Void, since when you cast your second artifact off Possilibty Storm, you first let Nether Void counter that spell and then Mishra searches for ti too, and finds one in your graveyard. (And also as a side effect, most of your opponents are perplexed after witnessing this one.)
Goblin Welder (+ Myr Turbine): This card single-handedly beats many other cards in the deck. It gets rid of useless artifacts AND returns more useful artifacts to battlefield. Trade unneeded Signet to Smokestacks? Sure can do! Also, Myr Turbine will be there to poop out artifact tokens for Welder to trade for more useful things...
Smokestack + Myr Turbine/Trading Post/Kher Keep: Suddenly your opponents are forced to sacrifice permanents while all you keep on feeding tokens to smokestacks. Also, if you have crucible out you can feed a land to it too.
Clock of Omens + Static Orb/Storage Matrix: Not a combo per se, but lets you sidestep the nasty effects of Static Orb and Storage Matrix.
Strionic Resonator + Smokestack/Braids, Cabal Minion/Bitterblossom: This is quite easy: Use Strionic Resonator to get yourself an extra token or to force your opponents to sacrifice twice as many permanents to Braids or Smokestack...
Decklist:
1 Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Lands
1 Academy Ruins
1 Arid Mesa
1 Badlands
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Buried Ruin
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Drownyard Temple
1 Flooded Strand
1 Graven Cairns
4 Island
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Mountain
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Strip Mine
1 Sunken Ruins
4 Swamp
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Watery Grave
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volcanic Island
1 Wooded Foothills
Creatures
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Dack Fayden
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Karn Liberated
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 Tezzeret the Schemer
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Artifacts
1 Clock of Omens
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Cursed Totem
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Dimir Signet
1 Grim Monolith
1 Izzet Signet
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Diamond
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Oblivion Stone
0 Prototype Portal
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Smokestack
1 Sol Ring
1 Static Orb
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Tamiyo's Journal
1 Tangle Wire
1 Torpor Orb
1 Winter Orb
Enchantments
1 Burning Sands
1 Frozen Aether
1 Land Equilibrium
1 Mana Vortex
1 Nether Void
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Possibility Storm
1 Rhystic Study
1 Stranglehold
1 Tainted Aether
1 Chaos Warp
1 Counterflux
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
1 Mana Drain
1 Swan Song
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Vampiric Tutor
Sorceries
1 Damnation
1 Decree of Annihilation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Devastation
1 Dreadbore
1 Fabricate
1 Night's Whisper
1 Obliterate
1 Pox
1 Shattering Spree
1 Smallpox
1 Vandalblast
0 Windfall
Bloodghast, Reassembling Skeleton and Bitterblossom are essential fuel.
-1 Guardian Beast
-1 Vile Consumption
+1 Slobad
+1 Tezzeret
With some mana rocks in your list, maybe you can use Winter Orb without many issues. Same with Desolation.
Orb of Dreams add another tap effect, but can backfire very hard.
With only five targets, Salvaging Station is good enough?
I don't like Prototype Portal. Maybe is just me, but which artifacts are worth + 4 mana investiment to copy each turn, and sometimes have Prototype Portal destroyed and your artifact exiled?
, Stax's DesireBBI would take out salvaging station unless you plan to put more goodies in for it. Krark-Clan Ironworks could do work for you.
amazingly epic sig courtesy of DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Planes.
For sac-out let I already have Slobad. What do you suggest for me to insert to make Salvaging Station good enough. And what to remove in their place?
Mishra Stax: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=442373
This other pulls Mishra into a different, and very cool, use: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=443025
And for Salvaging Station, if you really want it, these two threads can help:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=458038 focus on Salvaging Station.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=468906 focus on Trinket Mage
All credits for his creators, I only used the search tool.
, Stax's DesireBBWell, they seem okay, but the question is what to remove?
This always the question you should keep in mind when giving others advice: Instead of saying what to put in, say what they should replace with card X.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
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Well played Sir.
Anyways, got suggestions what to remove? You know how to play stax and are good at it, don't even think of denying it. I've been thinking something like Prototype Portal maybe should be removed, but I am not sure...
I have 0 exp when it comes to stax decks, never played with one. This is my first attempt to do one.
Well, if you can, trying having some games are the best way of figure:
-Is my deck doing what is supposed to do?
-Which manner I pretend to lock the table?
-Which cards advance my plan somehow?
-Which cards I always wants to cast if possible?
-These cards are not working:
*Should I remove then?
*Or change somenthing to make the card work.
...Of course this works with any deck.
Behind is some suggestions:
Chromatic Lantern --> Any other mana rock: You have a very good mana base, I think the Lantern's effect is almost dispensable.
Cloud Key --> Mana Rocks: Sometimes you will want to cast a spell and Key doesn't help, sometimes you will cast a spell with reduced cost where a mana rock would do the same thing, and sometimes you cast spells when Key is better(two or more spells, mana locks, etc). Even choosing the predominant type(cof, cof, artifacts), you have others spells that are great for casting, limiting the Key's usefulness.
Darksteel Forge --> Possibility Storm Aside from cheating with Goblin Welder, this eight mana does-nothing artifact will enter too late on the battlefield, where or you locked the table or you are behind and wants anything but this artifact protection. Possibility Storm combos with Mishra and/or tax effects like Nether Void or Lodestone Golem, meaning players must pay the tax cost for spells played with Storm.
Howling Mine --> Lim-Dûl's Vault: Because I don't want give my opponents resources to playing against my stax pieces. Vault provides instant library manipulation.
Prototype Portal --> Jace, the Mind Sculptor: As I stated some posts above, I don't like Portal because it's too much effort for a little advantage. Jace, in other hand, paints a large target on you but the incremental advantage worth the hate.
Solemn Simulacrum --> Pendrell Mists: With enough mana sources, this sad robot becomes outclassed. Mists are a creature control that tap lands as well.
Sorry if I can't elaborate better reasons for some changes.
I have others ideas, but that will only work if the deck leads toward a Stasis-like Control.
, Stax's DesireBBYeah, I know how you feel and most of the time it just simple isn't that something is strictly better than some other card. But, I still appreciate a lot of your input for what to remove and what to include instead.
Anyways, I want(ed) my deck to be something like 80% stax and 20% combo.
But, I just made some changes thanks to your suggestions, I had earlier been thinking about making some of those changes (like removing Sad Robot for something else, just like the prototype portal.) I'm still not convinced about removing Darksteel Forge (yet), but I'm going to think about it and ponder if I should just do it.
Still, once more: Thank you for you thoughts and opinions, they matter LOT to me.
If to add, what should be added? Necrogen Spellbomb seems at least good to me...
How do you actually win? Aside planewalkers ultimates, I see lots of stax-lock-combo, but nothing that really make someone lose.
About Salvaging Station, It's up to you say if you want it or not.
For example, I wanted to used the salvage package in my Maralen Stax, I was always happy when the engine was working.
But now I removed Station and some trinkets because it has some 'problems':
1)It was too slow for my taste/LGS.
2)I play with Null Rod AND Damping Matrix as lock pieces so more often the Salvaging Package was turned off.
3)Replaced for cards that advance better my strategy.
I'm a little sad, but I think the deck is now better, and maybe someday they can return.
If you are thinking about Copy Artifact, you will be better with Sculpting Steel or Mizzium Transreliquat, because both are artifacts.
I feel that Smokestack is a little off-piece because you don't have others sacrifice engines to support him.
Do you don't need more draws?
And for finishing, try Nullstone Gargoyle/Counterbalance + Nether Void.
, Stax's DesireBBWell, I've been thinking the same and have yet to found my win-con. At the moment, it is either PW ultimates or beat-down with Mishra.
Well, I guess I just have test my deck more and see if it is working or not.
I'll consider it besides Phyrexian Metamorph.
Hmmh? Goblin Assault, Trading Post and Crucible are not enough? What are your suggestion to add, besides the obvious Bitterblossom?
... not a bad idea, must have slipped my mind while scetching the deck. Thank you.
Maybe something like Staff of Nin and Mind's Eye?
I can't see how the counterbalance help me winning the game more, besides randomly countering a spell. I initially had Gargoyle in my deck, but thought that he'd be too expensive so I cut him off.
Once again, thank you for you opinions and input.
In search of a foil french Dromar, the Banisher, pm me if you have one you want to part with, also foil Stratadon's.
I see that my comment caused a little misunderstanding, let me rewrite: I feel that Smokestack is a off-piece because you don't have many others things that force players sacrifice cards to make worth.
Well, I was thinking again about Smokestack in the list and I reached only one other reply: Sometimes will be useful, and sometimes you will want another type of stax card; so it's become a question of personal preference.
On card draw, I will prefer artifacts that tap(for Clock of Omens, Voltaic Key and Unwinding Clock abuse) along other types of draw:
Scepter of Insight
Staff of Domination
Staff of Nin
Rhystic Study
Mystic Remora
Phyrexian Arena
Recurring Insight
Memory Jar
Future Sight
, Stax's DesireBBOh, now I see what you meant. I really like it would like to make it work, so I'd rather add cards to support more the sacrifice-plan than remove it. I already have Tabernacle x 2 (both as a land and as an enchantment), but if you have any other cards in your mind that work well with the tactic, I'd welcome them.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
I would revisit the post about Nullstone Gargoyle in this case. I would try to limit the amount of Non-Artifact spells to curve between 1-3, so you can cast them under Nether Void easily and more importantly, Reliably. Cards like War's Toll, and Stranglehold are nice, but may not always come at relevant times, and more times than not you have abetter use of 4 mana than a do nothing Enchantment or an enchantment that hinders your ability to react, since you're the control deck at the table, let alone having to pay 7 for it worst case scenario.
Also, in my testing with Mishra I was underwhelmed by Blood Funnel. More time than not it was a liability, because if you don't have Mishra online with it you can't cast anything or are reliant on a token producer, and even then you basically Arcane Laboratory yourself. With Nether Void and Possibility Storm as your enablers you don't leave yourself open to kicking yourself out of the game or your stax backfiring.
Have you thought of using kormus bell along with your Urborg and Cursed totem? this will lock out the lands while you sit comfortably behind your artifact mana, and keep casting spells while your opponents weap behind your cascading madness.
Sorry for the rant, but i see a lot of un-explored Potential in the possibility Storm Route for this build. Good luck. I will be following this while also brewing my own.
I look at Blood Funnel as a combo piece and not much else, and as such unless i can get great use out of it I'm not likely to play it until I'm ready to show my opponents what happens when I set the first piece of the device in motion.
Yeah, I've really been thinking of removing the Salvaging Station and most of the cogs from this deck and thinking of still giving a shot to Nullstone Gargoyle.
Also, how does War's Toll, Stranglehold and the ilk hinder my game? They all effect my opponents, but not me and make it harder for them to get or play the answers to my stax-pieces...
Also about the Kormus Bell, the card ends up working as a armageddon with any of the Tabernacle-effects. They can't tap them for mana to save themselves. The thing is, is it too nasty and is it any effective all by itself, without Urborg and Cursed Totem/Tabernacle/Pendrell Mists?
Yeah, I had the Tidespout Tyrant -combo, but then I decided to make the less combo and more stax and took it out.
Also, I'll be keeping an eye on the Blood Funnel and test whether it really is worth it, but most of the times, I never cast it unless I have Mishra in play and there is low chance of removal hitting Mishra.
Replies in Bold.
WT: Yeah, but if I can force my opponent to use all their mana in one phase, it really limits their options. Stranglehold doesn't affect the board state at all, just makes all tutors and fetchlands and such useless, which are REALLY abundant around here.
And besides, if you saw my decklist, I don't really run many counters in it, only two that are both tad expensive but uncounterable by my NV and ilk.
Yeah, removing someone's graveyard and cantriping for 1 mana is really bad./sarcasm
Spellbombs are not meant to kill anyone, just like my lands nor my Nether Void. They just help me with limiting my opponents options.
And like I said earlier, I've been planning to remove Salvaging Station...
Do you accept planewalkers as winning conditions?
Do you have any problem/dislike MLD?
I will use your response as basis for my next major card replacing suggestion.
For now, only these opinions behind:
Perplex --> Dimir Machinations: Thinking about Dobes's post about Possibility Storm, these change can be useful somehow. Both are 3CMC tutors, but one is instant and the other sorcery. What this change? Well, cast both with Storm on field and see by yourself.
War's Toll --> Mana Web: Only because Mana Web is an artifact, cost one less and we have no use for the other effect of War's Toll.
And, I liked the opinions about Blood Funnel.
, Stax's DesireBB