I find Decimate awkward to cast. Waiting for a chance to copy it profitably seems agonizing. Maybe you have better luck with it, but I'd replace it with Primal Command.
Greater Good seems like it only starts working after you are already making copies of titans. If so, replace it with Rite of Replication.
Cut Avenger of Zendikar for Sower of Temptation. You lose a substantial LOLTOKENS, but you save 3 on the mana cost and gain removal, without sacrificing much damage output.
I find Decimate awkward to cast. Waiting for a chance to copy it profitably seems agonizing. Maybe you have better luck with it, but I'd replace it with Primal Command.
Greater Good seems like it only starts working after you are already making copies of titans. If so, replace it with Rite of Replication.
Cut Avenger of Zendikar for Sower of Temptation. You lose a substantial LOLTOKENS, but you save 3 on the mana cost and gain removal, without sacrificing much damage output.
Keep in mind with Decimate that when you copy it you can target some of the same targets. If there is only one enchantment in play just double target it. You dont have to have all of the targets still there when it resolves, only when it is put on the stack. Another good trick to using it is to get your top into play asap, targeting it for your artifact target is handy then you can activate it and draw a card once it is on the stack.
Also on the topic of Sower of Temptation, I guess this call will depend on how much you plan on seeing Homeward Path. I personally don't want to go overcommiting on theft with this one arround the corner.
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Ok I looked through your list quick. Here are the big offenders in my mind:
Naturalize I feel like there are just so much better varients of this spell. For one more mana you get split second. For 2 more mana you get to draw cards. For 3 more mana you get a second target. I just dont know how much I like this specific varient for EDH.
Spell Curmple unless you are playing against other blue decks there is little interaction with this and your commander. I know it is good to tuck spells on occasion but you could also run the new Chaos Warp for the same mana you can tuck 2 commanders or any problem permanent.
Collective Voyage the join forces cards are just bad. You are ramping all of your opponents forward as well and they get to untap with all that mana before you get to. I feel like this card is just too situationally bad in too many instances.
Act of Treason creature theft until end of turn is sort of lame in EDH. I think there are better options out there for you to consider than this.
Also, sort of an overall things, I think your mana curve is a bit high. You might want to bring a few of the high mana spells down. Your early / midgame looks like it could be a bit weak which could result in someone just running you over in the midrange.
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I am going to exchange Naturalize as soon as I find a Korsans Grip. Spell Crumple is kind of useless, you are right. I do not have a Chaos Warp at the moment but it is on my list but mainly for another deck. Maybe I will put it in here once I got it.
Do you have any suggestions which ramp spell to put in instead of Collective Voyage and what to exchange for Act of Treason ?
Any other suggestion regarding the mana curve? I know it is quite high but I don't see how I can lower it.
Kind regards
Farseek - > Sakura-Tribe Elder / Oracle of Mul Daya Farseek is decent for ramping the early game but I find it is a lot worse later in the game. The tribe elder is at the same mana and ramps forward, it cannot hit dual lands but I find it a bit better later in the game as you get a chump blocker out of it still. Otherwise the Oracle of Mul Daya is great as it gives you great card advantage as you rarely draw land with him in play. You can also ramp really well with him.
Collective Voyage -> Primeval Titan If you dont have a titan right now see if you can proxy him up. It sounds like he is being reprinted in M12 and prices will go down on him then. I would strongly suggest you use him though as he is probably one of the best ramping cards out there.
I find Decimate awkward to cast. Waiting for a chance to copy it profitably seems agonizing. Maybe you have better luck with it, but I'd replace it with Primal Command.
Greater Good seems like it only starts working after you are already making copies of titans. If so, replace it with Rite of Replication.
Cut Avenger of Zendikar for Sower of Temptation. You lose a substantial LOLTOKENS, but you save 3 on the mana cost and gain removal, without sacrificing much damage output.
I'm trying out Decimate. Like Pathfinder said you don't actually need eight targets if you want to copy it. The only thing I worry about is having an enchantment to hit. If it's a problem, well then there's other options. Primal Command is underrated I'll admit but it doesn't have the blowout potential of the former.
Greater Good is better than you think it is, I believe. You don't need to be drawing cards off of it for it to be good either. Sac outlets are highly underrated in the game, especially ones that draw you cards. It is wrath and steal protection all in one 4 CMC package and I intend to give it a shot here. I'll admit though that I do love me some Rite of Replication. Probably my favorite magic card ever actually. It's always contending for a spot and I still feel kind of silly not having it in the decklist.
And on the topic of cutting AoZ, I'm sorry my friend but that just isn't happening. Sower is cute and techy, doesn't typically live long enough to be considered "removal", gets owned by the new hot land that just came out. That doesn't mean it's not a great card but you're asking me to cut the single most beat-tastic creature in the entire deck and I am not really crazy on cutting down on win conditions at the moment. If I were to play the Sower down the road, it would be the type of card to replace Decimate.
@dawn
I think Mirari might be overkill when your general can do it already for less. I'm also not a fan of World at War because it's only really good if you're already in a position to be attacking. Insurrection is a lot better and it doesn't need Riku for it to be good. Otherwise as usual Pathfinder is spot on with his recommendations. I like Fierce Empath in that spot to tutor for Palinchron or WGD.
You're cheating on lands. Run less than 38 at your own risk. Also I suggest against running the artifact lands because they're going to get swept out from under you via Planar Cleansing or Oblivion Stone (EDIT: derp) Akroma's Vengeance or Nevinyrral's Disk every time. I know they're tutorable off trinket mage but I don't think it makes them good enough to play.
You're cheating on lands. Run less than 38 at your own risk. Also I suggest against running the artifact lands because they're going to get swept out from under you via Planar Cleansing or Oblivion Stone every time. I know they're tutorable off trinket mage but I dont think it makes them good enough to play.
+1 to this. Unless you use Sharuum or Sun Titan or some other recursion, expect to see these lands disappear frequently.
You're cheating on lands. Run less than 38 at your own risk. Also I suggest against running the artifact lands because they're going to get swept out from under you via Planar Cleansing or Oblivion Stone every time. I know they're tutorable off trinket mage but I dont think it makes them good enough to play.
Well, they only destroy nonland permanents, so the artifact lands are pretty safe. But they do dissapear under Austere Command, Akroma's Vengeance etc.
Don't forget about Nevinyrral's Disk, Creeping Corrosion, and Shatterstorm. The main point here is that they are inherently risky and unless you can take advantage of them, they aren't necessary.
You're cheating on lands. Run less than 38 at your own risk. Also I suggest against running the artifact lands because they're going to get swept out from under you via Planar Cleansing or Oblivion Stone every time. I know they're tutorable off trinket mage but I dont think it makes them good enough to play.
The artifact lands are fine against those two sweepers. They say nonland permanents and the artifact lands are still lands.
Yeah I mentioned the wrong sweepers. :(. Thanks for the corrections. Doesn't change my opinion of the artifact lands though. They also turn your opponent's point artifact removal into land destruction and I'm no fan of that either. T2 Manic Vandal (off ramp) blow up your only land? Mehhhhh sounds like a bad game...
@Bolas Shivan Meteor would have to hit players for me to care, unfortunately. I'm sure you've heard this a thousand times but Stuffy Doll is your friend
EDIT: YAY GOT THE CARDS
Man this non-oversized, non-foil Riku needs some jazzing up. Extended border alter would be sweet.
Anyway, Here's some batch changes I made. I'll add the justifications later when I'm not late for bed:
Hull Breach-->Venser, Shaper Savant (decided hull breach is overkill, Venser is dirty copied because he can bounce himself before the copy is created.
Spellskite-->Rite of Replication (Spellskite is great and all but I figure good players will just remove him first or wrath if they are afraid of Riku)
Greater Good-->Greater Gargadon (I love sac outlets. He's a good one and very copyable off suspend. I could be talked into Perilous Forays instead but I don't like the 5cmc)
Green Sun's Zenith-->Defense of the Heart (I think this is almost a strict upgrade)
Regrowth-->Darksteel Ingot (gets Riku out a turn earlier and is totally worth the spot)
Aside from mimic vat shenanigans and birthing pod fuel (and the fact that he's an answer for pretty much everything), this is why I like Venser in the deck:
Venser, Shaper Savant I just thought I would point out that using Venser could be an alternative in this deck. So here is how this works, you cast him out at instant speed. His ability goes on the stack and so do Riku's. Stack them so that you get Venser's to go off first and you bounce Venser himself with his own ability. You then use riku to make a clone of him and since he is no longer in play the legend rule isnt a problem and you get to bounce something else and throw a 2/2 token at something. I just thought I would throw this one at you for you to decide. The fact that Venser is a legend does make this sort of a pain in the ass but the fact that he has flash makes him better than the AEther Adept / Man O War options.
Since he's bouncing himself, with Riku in play he is a buybacked capsize THAT WORKS ON SPELLS with a free 2/2, ready to hit the birthing pod for a 5CMC like Kiki-Jiki or something. I don't know if he's right for the deck but I'm willing to try most anything close with a CMC of 4 because they are ripe to be copied at 6 mana after casting Riku for 5. This same reason is why I'm excited to try decimate. So I'm going to try him and see if I like him and we'll see where it goes from there.
So I built a Riku deck somewhat similar to the OP's (namely, lots of ETB creatures), with a few differences (I had a minor Storm theme with Mind's Desire, Sprouting Vines, Hunting Pack, and Ignite Memories, and more Twincast-type card), and ran a couple of games with it last night. Here's what I learned:
1.) Riku scares people, as he is new, but they also know shenanigans are coming. It was hard to keep him alive long enough to do anything, or to keep enough extra mana open after casting Riku actually to use his abilities. This taught me:
2.) A card like Neurok Stealthsuit is better for Riku than Lightning Greaves: Riku doesn't care about haste, and the Stealthsuit's ability to instant-equip is great protection against spot removal. I also included Darksteel Plate between games, although I didn't draw it.
3.) This deck is crazy mana-hungry, so it's good that Riku's green The more mana-ramp, the better, I think. Although, by the end of the second game I had 26 lands in play (in part from the worst Genesis Wave ever for 15 that yielded 9 lands and 6 non-permanents...), yet I still couldn't win, even with a Capsize in hand. From this I learned:
4.) An extra turn card, such as Time Warp, even though it's on your "Jerk Quotient" list, is probably a good thing to include. I personally don't want the ability to generate infinite turns, but casting Riku and getting an extra turn or two seems to be a good way of developing a better board position when you have a big target painted on your head.
So I built a Riku deck somewhat similar to the OP's (namely, lots of ETB creatures), with a few differences (I had a minor Storm theme with Mind's Desire, Sprouting Vines, Hunting Pack, and Ignite Memories, and more Twincast-type card), and ran a couple of games with it last night. Here's what I learned:
1.) Riku scares people, as he is new, but they also know shenanigans are coming. It was hard to keep him alive long enough to do anything, or to keep enough extra mana open after casting Riku actually to use his abilities. This taught me:
2.) A card like Neurok Stealthsuit is better for Riku than Lightning Greaves: Riku doesn't care about haste, and the Stealthsuit's ability to instant-equip is great protection against spot removal. I also included Darksteel Plate between games, although I didn't draw it.
3.) This deck is crazy mana-hungry, so it's good that Riku's green The more mana-ramp, the better, I think. Although, by the end of the second game I had 26 lands in play (in part from the worst Genesis Wave ever for 15 that yielded 9 lands and 6 non-permanents...), yet I still couldn't win, even with a Capsize in hand. From this I learned:
4.) An extra turn card, such as Time Warp, even though it's on your "Jerk Quotient" list, is probably a good thing to include. I personally don't want the ability to generate infinite turns, but casting Riku and getting an extra turn or two seems to be a good way of developing a better board position when you have a big target painted on your head.
If you find yourself picking up a lot of equipment you might also want to run Godo, Bandit Warlord. His ability to tutor up equipment is great and if Riku is in play I would totaly copy Godo to get 2 equipment into play. That would be nice. I like having him in there as it gives you a way to tutor up equipment off of creature tutors.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
When I create a token with Riku, does it have the same converted mana cost as the original or does it have a converted mana cost of 0 ?
The mana cost of the creature being copied is a copiable characteristic, so yes, the token has the CMC of the creature it copied. This is very useful for Birthing Pod shenanigans
Riku scares people: Oh yeah, I can imagine. I actually had a Spellskite in the list for a few days before I cut it last night. If I start to get upset over spot removal, I will reconsider more stuff like that and Pact of Negation. The Stealthsuit I'm not too big a fan of over Greaves because haste is so powerful with other creatures but it's a fine card to play nonetheless. Same deal with Darksteel Plate. A fine card but its uses are kind of limited. There's not much save Kiki-Jiki or Riku worth making indestructible in this deck.
EAT ALL THE MANA NOM NOM: Yeah ramp is good. Which brings me to ask you about your G-wave: With a minor storm theme, why play Genesis Wave? Just play something else nasty like Rite of Replication or Tooth and Nail or Insurrection or something.
Time Warp/Time Stretch: Yeah these are really good. My problem is that if I play them I will almost certainly attempt to recur them over and over again. I have to remove the temptation to do so from my deck otherwise I'll end up winning that way and since part of what I enjoy about Commander is teaching new players how awesome it is, I just can't set myself up for that. I do understand though how powerful they are. If I need them, I can just dig 'em out of my EDH toolbox.
Chancellor of the Spires: Yeah he's constantly underrated. I'm excited to play him. At worst he will hit ramp or spot removal and at best he will hit a game-winner like Time Stretch (if you haven't lost to it already) and win the game on the spot.
Not enough equips in the deck to give him the spot right now but if I find Inferno Titan lacking down the road he would be a prime target to replace him if only to tutor for Greaves and SoFaF.
I can definitely be convinced to add more protection to Riku for the deck. I like artifact-based solutions because they can be recurred with Academy Ruins. I'll keep mulling over Spellskite and Darksteel Plate and friends. I really like the former.
Riku's Wording:
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, you may pay UR. If you do, copy that spell. You may choose new targets for that copy.
Rebound ability reads as follows:
(If you cast this spell from your hand, exile it as it resolves. At the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast this card from exile without paying its mana cost.)
The copies are not actually cast from hand and thus there is no way for Riku to hit the copies. Even if it did work it would only be 2 damage per turn for as long as you could keep riku in play to copy it.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Heh heh leave it to pathfinder to lay down the law here in Riku land :). Yes, rebound doesn't work that well with him, otherwise I don't think I could turn down Cast Through Time...
I made a couple more changes for consistency's sake.
Adds more ramp and protection for Riku while ditching items that are somewhat cute and only good situationally. I'm still waffling a lot on Spellskite (I wont get to try this deck in person till Friday) but I figure he can't be that bad since he's pitchable to survival and he blanks at least one piece of removal. Coalition Relic can't be too bad I figure as it's a fantastic piece of ramp and fixing that gets Riku out a turn earlier. Its storage effect seems real useful too when saving mana for copying spells.
Riku's Wording:
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, you may pay UR. If you do, copy that spell. You may choose new targets for that copy.
Rebound ability reads as follows:
(If you cast this spell from your hand, exile it as it resolves. At the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast this card from exile without paying its mana cost.)
The copies are not actually cast from hand and thus there is no way for Riku to hit the copies. Even if it did work it would only be 2 damage per turn for as long as you could keep riku in play to copy it.
Sorry I have to correct myself. I had it right in my head but I actually typed it incorrectly.
Riku can copy the rebound spell, however the copies of the spell cannot trigger the rebound.
So when you initially cast it you can copy it to have 2 shoots. Then next turn the one that you cast from you hand will rebound and you can copy it again. You cannot copy it any further than that unless you do some sort of Reiterate on it.
NINJA EDIT: Sorry had to tag on an extra question for you.
Have you considered running some EPIC spells? This would be a very fun deck to execute the red or blue one as you can copy it and thus have 2 copies of the epic execute every turn. Epic spells can trigger multiple all at the same time. I looked into it a while back with Wort but you have the option of tagging Eternal Dominion in there which just sounds wayyyyyy too fun.
Yeah I own a copy of Eternal Dominion because I ran it once back when I was just starting out in blue Braids. I'd love to get a hold of a foil someday. I haven't yet lived the dream of Twincasting it but it sounds damn awesome it would be great for the laughs. I'm sure I would play it over Time Stretch for that reason. I'll think about it but I want to try the deck out now in its current form and see if I get bored of some of the current 7 and 8+ drops before I add it in.
And yes your description of rebound is accurate. I've said it before that when I get some playtime in with this version of the deck I'm going to brew a wacky (but competitive I hope) instant-and-sorcery-based one and the blue epic spell would be a dead ringer.
I was just coming to multiplayer edh to post about riku. I'm glad you guys beat me to it as there appears to be a ton of good info here. Based off the first page's deck list (which I don't know has been updated as I havn't had a chance to read the entire thread), I would suggest;
Ancient Tomb an additional copy of Temple of the False God is always good in a mana hungry deck. Boseiju, Who Shelters All Replace a basic land. I'm in an almost counterspell free meta but riku deserves the protection.
I'll get back to you guys once I've been able to read everything.
Since this seems to be the thread from which to gain a little perspective, here's my experience. I'm a brand new Commander player, and I'd thought I'd build a list that was fun for me to play, and try to get other newbies into. My local store has a very charged up EDH atmosphere already, so I was expecting a little leniency in how the deck could be played...
Little did I know I was stepping into a pool of sharks.
My silly ideas, away went Phyrexian Ingester, away went Mulldrifter, away went innocence.
"Just be a douche and play Time Stretch.", they say.
So, screw em. SuperSonik(and others!), if you were just going to muscle up and take out the Spikes in your group, what's the meanest package of extra turn punch that you take? For extra points, what's the best viable toolbox(if there is one) to flatout disrupt degenerate combo going off? From playing with pre-cons to Niv-Mizzet and Kami, people. How do you survive?
My silly ideas, away went Phyrexian Ingester, away went Mulldrifter, away went innocence.
"Just be a douche and play Time Stretch.", they say.
So, screw em.
Don't do it, Sonik! Fight the good fight!
I like that Riku is versatile enough that while he can facilitate the douche plays like doubled Time Stretch (if your meta can handle it), he can also just be a fun "make stuff more" engine. On a purely selfish level (I'm a Riku player), I'd prefer for him to keep a reputation as more of a fun general and less of a jerk general. Given how powerful Riku CAN be, I admire the notion of a player/deck that aims to compete while also having a sense of what it isn't willing to do to win (Time Stretch, Palinchron, etc.). I think that's good for the game/format at a time when EDH is experiencing some growing pains and is trying to figure out what it's going to be past its adolescence as a format.
Side notes: Eternal Dominion would be pretty awesome... and Mulldrifter is still great with Riku, especially with Birthing Pod.
Ancient Tomb: This is a FABulous idea. It's currently in another deck right now (never thought I'd need more than one) but that deck is coming apart very soon anyway. I think you're right here. Do you think I should play a regular-old Temple of the False God as well?
Boseiju, Who Shelters All: I've had some issues with Boseiju in the past with regards to needing to tap it for mana all the time even if I didn't want to. I think it's a good fit though when I'm planning on winning with bombs. I'll consider it.
If you were just going to muscle up and take out the Spikes in your group, what's the meanest package of extra turn punch that you take? For extra points, what's the best viable toolbox(if there is one) to flatout disrupt degenerate combo going off? From playing with pre-cons to Niv-Mizzet and Kami, people. How do you survive?
You've asked the wrong question. It's not "how do you survive?", it's "how do you win first?".
It's a shame (to me) that your LGS makes it difficult to break in because normally I would champion Ingester and friends as the perfect EDH rare for folks just starting out. That said, it sounds like everyone is having a good time there, so assuming you're just trying to find your place in their meta, let me suggest that you go a control/combo route with riku. If you go back and read the suggestions of one Gath Immortal (linked you to the first one here), you will find some ways to make the deck more able to compete with other combo and control decks, which are the ones that are likely winning where you're coming from. Highlights include:
And you would cut all the fun, cute stuff and lots of bombs since they wouldn't be your primary means of victory.
Anyway, those are your options. Someone may make a cutthroat Riku deck out there and post it here but that is not my ultimate goal. Part of what I do is teach people to play EDH and I don't intend to dis-enthuse them by winning on the stack. I'm sure you will fit right in though if you make a concerted effort to go combo or at least control and I wish you luck and good times!
I very much appreciate your gratitude. Some may call this deck a little good-stuff-y but I prefer it that way then turning it into a combo deck. I do love the fact that Riku allows you so much flexibility with regards to power level and direction of build, although others have expressed their disinterest in him because he's not much of a "build-around-me" general. Then again, I find those decks to be somewhat linear and they get older faster for me. As far as what he does, I just love copying things and he's in RUG colors, so I pretty much knew from the minute he was spoiled I'd be using him for a very long time. I hope you have as much fun as I expect to as I break this guy in.
I like Riku and of course I also play the Time Warp / Time Stretch Combo, but I do not use it that often, just before I am about to loose most of the time. Still need to figure out what exactly I wanna do with this deck. I run no protection whats so ever for Riku.
Spellskite will get pooh-poohed a lot by EDH regulars but I am seriously considering him having a regular spot in the deck. He requires no mana to activate and your opponents need two removal spells or a wrath to stop him. He, like many solutions below, is also recurrable with Academy Ruins, which is fetchable by Primeval Titan, Sylvan Scrying, Crop Rotation and Expedition Map. Other protection you can run for Riku:
Greater Good seems like it only starts working after you are already making copies of titans. If so, replace it with Rite of Replication.
Cut Avenger of Zendikar for Sower of Temptation. You lose a substantial LOLTOKENS, but you save 3 on the mana cost and gain removal, without sacrificing much damage output.
Food Chain!
Keep in mind with Decimate that when you copy it you can target some of the same targets. If there is only one enchantment in play just double target it. You dont have to have all of the targets still there when it resolves, only when it is put on the stack. Another good trick to using it is to get your top into play asap, targeting it for your artifact target is handy then you can activate it and draw a card once it is on the stack.
Also on the topic of Sower of Temptation, I guess this call will depend on how much you plan on seeing Homeward Path. I personally don't want to go overcommiting on theft with this one arround the corner.
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[Modern] Allies
Ok I looked through your list quick. Here are the big offenders in my mind:
Naturalize I feel like there are just so much better varients of this spell. For one more mana you get split second. For 2 more mana you get to draw cards. For 3 more mana you get a second target. I just dont know how much I like this specific varient for EDH.
Spell Curmple unless you are playing against other blue decks there is little interaction with this and your commander. I know it is good to tuck spells on occasion but you could also run the new Chaos Warp for the same mana you can tuck 2 commanders or any problem permanent.
Collective Voyage the join forces cards are just bad. You are ramping all of your opponents forward as well and they get to untap with all that mana before you get to. I feel like this card is just too situationally bad in too many instances.
Act of Treason creature theft until end of turn is sort of lame in EDH. I think there are better options out there for you to consider than this.
Also, sort of an overall things, I think your mana curve is a bit high. You might want to bring a few of the high mana spells down. Your early / midgame looks like it could be a bit weak which could result in someone just running you over in the midrange.
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Farseek - > Sakura-Tribe Elder / Oracle of Mul Daya Farseek is decent for ramping the early game but I find it is a lot worse later in the game. The tribe elder is at the same mana and ramps forward, it cannot hit dual lands but I find it a bit better later in the game as you get a chump blocker out of it still. Otherwise the Oracle of Mul Daya is great as it gives you great card advantage as you rarely draw land with him in play. You can also ramp really well with him.
Collective Voyage -> Primeval Titan If you dont have a titan right now see if you can proxy him up. It sounds like he is being reprinted in M12 and prices will go down on him then. I would strongly suggest you use him though as he is probably one of the best ramping cards out there.
Act of Treason -> Aftershock, Spin into Myth, Phyrexian Ingester, Flametongue Kavu Sorry I guess I am just sort of shotgunning some options here. I guess it is up to you as to what to run. I dont feel like any of these are must have cards in the deck but Act of Treason is sort of suck.
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I'm trying out Decimate. Like Pathfinder said you don't actually need eight targets if you want to copy it. The only thing I worry about is having an enchantment to hit. If it's a problem, well then there's other options. Primal Command is underrated I'll admit but it doesn't have the blowout potential of the former.
Greater Good is better than you think it is, I believe. You don't need to be drawing cards off of it for it to be good either. Sac outlets are highly underrated in the game, especially ones that draw you cards. It is wrath and steal protection all in one 4 CMC package and I intend to give it a shot here. I'll admit though that I do love me some Rite of Replication. Probably my favorite magic card ever actually. It's always contending for a spot and I still feel kind of silly not having it in the decklist.
And on the topic of cutting AoZ, I'm sorry my friend but that just isn't happening. Sower is cute and techy, doesn't typically live long enough to be considered "removal", gets owned by the new hot land that just came out. That doesn't mean it's not a great card but you're asking me to cut the single most beat-tastic creature in the entire deck and I am not really crazy on cutting down on win conditions at the moment. If I were to play the Sower down the road, it would be the type of card to replace Decimate.
@dawn
I think Mirari might be overkill when your general can do it already for less. I'm also not a fan of World at War because it's only really good if you're already in a position to be attacking. Insurrection is a lot better and it doesn't need Riku for it to be good. Otherwise as usual Pathfinder is spot on with his recommendations. I like Fierce Empath in that spot to tutor for Palinchron or WGD.
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
Planar Cleansing or Oblivion Stone(EDIT: derp) Akroma's Vengeance or Nevinyrral's Disk every time. I know they're tutorable off trinket mage but I don't think it makes them good enough to play.:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
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Thada Adel Stax WIP
+1 to this. Unless you use Sharuum or Sun Titan or some other recursion, expect to see these lands disappear frequently.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Well, they only destroy nonland permanents, so the artifact lands are pretty safe. But they do dissapear under Austere Command, Akroma's Vengeance etc.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
The artifact lands are fine against those two sweepers. They say nonland permanents and the artifact lands are still lands.
If someone plays fracturing gust, creeping corrosion, or austere command I would be more worried.
@Bolas Shivan Meteor would have to hit players for me to care, unfortunately. I'm sure you've heard this a thousand times but Stuffy Doll is your friend
EDIT: YAY GOT THE CARDS
Man this non-oversized, non-foil Riku needs some jazzing up. Extended border alter would be sweet.
Anyway, Here's some batch changes I made. I'll add the justifications later when I'm not late for bed:
Hull Breach-->Venser, Shaper Savant (decided hull breach is overkill, Venser is dirty copied because he can bounce himself before the copy is created.
Spellskite-->Rite of Replication (Spellskite is great and all but I figure good players will just remove him first or wrath if they are afraid of Riku)
Greater Good-->Greater Gargadon (I love sac outlets. He's a good one and very copyable off suspend. I could be talked into Perilous Forays instead but I don't like the 5cmc)
Green Sun's Zenith-->Defense of the Heart (I think this is almost a strict upgrade)
Regrowth-->Darksteel Ingot (gets Riku out a turn earlier and is totally worth the spot)
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Thada Adel Stax WIP
Since he's bouncing himself, with Riku in play he is a buybacked capsize THAT WORKS ON SPELLS with a free 2/2, ready to hit the birthing pod for a 5CMC like Kiki-Jiki or something. I don't know if he's right for the deck but I'm willing to try most anything close with a CMC of 4 because they are ripe to be copied at 6 mana after casting Riku for 5. This same reason is why I'm excited to try decimate. So I'm going to try him and see if I like him and we'll see where it goes from there.
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:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
1.) Riku scares people, as he is new, but they also know shenanigans are coming. It was hard to keep him alive long enough to do anything, or to keep enough extra mana open after casting Riku actually to use his abilities. This taught me:
2.) A card like Neurok Stealthsuit is better for Riku than Lightning Greaves: Riku doesn't care about haste, and the Stealthsuit's ability to instant-equip is great protection against spot removal. I also included Darksteel Plate between games, although I didn't draw it.
3.) This deck is crazy mana-hungry, so it's good that Riku's green The more mana-ramp, the better, I think. Although, by the end of the second game I had 26 lands in play (in part from the worst Genesis Wave ever for 15 that yielded 9 lands and 6 non-permanents...), yet I still couldn't win, even with a Capsize in hand. From this I learned:
4.) An extra turn card, such as Time Warp, even though it's on your "Jerk Quotient" list, is probably a good thing to include. I personally don't want the ability to generate infinite turns, but casting Riku and getting an extra turn or two seems to be a good way of developing a better board position when you have a big target painted on your head.
5.) I really like Chancellor of the Spires in this deck.
If you find yourself picking up a lot of equipment you might also want to run Godo, Bandit Warlord. His ability to tutor up equipment is great and if Riku is in play I would totaly copy Godo to get 2 equipment into play. That would be nice. I like having him in there as it gives you a way to tutor up equipment off of creature tutors.
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The mana cost of the creature being copied is a copiable characteristic, so yes, the token has the CMC of the creature it copied. This is very useful for Birthing Pod shenanigans
Riku scares people: Oh yeah, I can imagine. I actually had a Spellskite in the list for a few days before I cut it last night. If I start to get upset over spot removal, I will reconsider more stuff like that and Pact of Negation. The Stealthsuit I'm not too big a fan of over Greaves because haste is so powerful with other creatures but it's a fine card to play nonetheless. Same deal with Darksteel Plate. A fine card but its uses are kind of limited. There's not much save Kiki-Jiki or Riku worth making indestructible in this deck.
EAT ALL THE MANA NOM NOM: Yeah ramp is good. Which brings me to ask you about your G-wave: With a minor storm theme, why play Genesis Wave? Just play something else nasty like Rite of Replication or Tooth and Nail or Insurrection or something.
Time Warp/Time Stretch: Yeah these are really good. My problem is that if I play them I will almost certainly attempt to recur them over and over again. I have to remove the temptation to do so from my deck otherwise I'll end up winning that way and since part of what I enjoy about Commander is teaching new players how awesome it is, I just can't set myself up for that. I do understand though how powerful they are. If I need them, I can just dig 'em out of my EDH toolbox.
Chancellor of the Spires: Yeah he's constantly underrated. I'm excited to play him. At worst he will hit ramp or spot removal and at best he will hit a game-winner like Time Stretch (if you haven't lost to it already) and win the game on the spot.
Not enough equips in the deck to give him the spot right now but if I find Inferno Titan lacking down the road he would be a prime target to replace him if only to tutor for Greaves and SoFaF.
I can definitely be convinced to add more protection to Riku for the deck. I like artifact-based solutions because they can be recurred with Academy Ruins. I'll keep mulling over Spellskite and Darksteel Plate and friends. I really like the former.
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:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
I don't think that works.
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, you may pay UR. If you do, copy that spell. You may choose new targets for that copy.
Rebound ability reads as follows:
(If you cast this spell from your hand, exile it as it resolves. At the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast this card from exile without paying its mana cost.)
The copies are not actually cast from hand and thus there is no way for Riku to hit the copies. Even if it did work it would only be 2 damage per turn for as long as you could keep riku in play to copy it.
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I made a couple more changes for consistency's sake.
Izzet Chronarch-->Coalition Relic
Crystal Shard-->Spellskite
Adds more ramp and protection for Riku while ditching items that are somewhat cute and only good situationally. I'm still waffling a lot on Spellskite (I wont get to try this deck in person till Friday) but I figure he can't be that bad since he's pitchable to survival and he blanks at least one piece of removal. Coalition Relic can't be too bad I figure as it's a fantastic piece of ramp and fixing that gets Riku out a turn earlier. Its storage effect seems real useful too when saving mana for copying spells.
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:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
Sorry I have to correct myself. I had it right in my head but I actually typed it incorrectly.
Riku can copy the rebound spell, however the copies of the spell cannot trigger the rebound.
So when you initially cast it you can copy it to have 2 shoots. Then next turn the one that you cast from you hand will rebound and you can copy it again. You cannot copy it any further than that unless you do some sort of Reiterate on it.
NINJA EDIT: Sorry had to tag on an extra question for you.
Have you considered running some EPIC spells? This would be a very fun deck to execute the red or blue one as you can copy it and thus have 2 copies of the epic execute every turn. Epic spells can trigger multiple all at the same time. I looked into it a while back with Wort but you have the option of tagging Eternal Dominion in there which just sounds wayyyyyy too fun.
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Yeah I own a copy of Eternal Dominion because I ran it once back when I was just starting out in blue Braids. I'd love to get a hold of a foil someday. I haven't yet lived the dream of Twincasting it but it sounds damn awesome it would be great for the laughs. I'm sure I would play it over Time Stretch for that reason. I'll think about it but I want to try the deck out now in its current form and see if I get bored of some of the current 7 and 8+ drops before I add it in.
And yes your description of rebound is accurate. I've said it before that when I get some playtime in with this version of the deck I'm going to brew a wacky (but competitive I hope) instant-and-sorcery-based one and the blue epic spell would be a dead ringer.
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:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
Ancient Tomb an additional copy of Temple of the False God is always good in a mana hungry deck.
Boseiju, Who Shelters All Replace a basic land. I'm in an almost counterspell free meta but riku deserves the protection.
I'll get back to you guys once I've been able to read everything.
Since this seems to be the thread from which to gain a little perspective, here's my experience. I'm a brand new Commander player, and I'd thought I'd build a list that was fun for me to play, and try to get other newbies into. My local store has a very charged up EDH atmosphere already, so I was expecting a little leniency in how the deck could be played...
Little did I know I was stepping into a pool of sharks.
My silly ideas, away went Phyrexian Ingester, away went Mulldrifter, away went innocence.
"Just be a douche and play Time Stretch.", they say.
So, screw em. SuperSonik(and others!), if you were just going to muscle up and take out the Spikes in your group, what's the meanest package of extra turn punch that you take? For extra points, what's the best viable toolbox(if there is one) to flatout disrupt degenerate combo going off? From playing with pre-cons to Niv-Mizzet and Kami, people. How do you survive?
Don't do it, Sonik! Fight the good fight!
I like that Riku is versatile enough that while he can facilitate the douche plays like doubled Time Stretch (if your meta can handle it), he can also just be a fun "make stuff more" engine. On a purely selfish level (I'm a Riku player), I'd prefer for him to keep a reputation as more of a fun general and less of a jerk general. Given how powerful Riku CAN be, I admire the notion of a player/deck that aims to compete while also having a sense of what it isn't willing to do to win (Time Stretch, Palinchron, etc.). I think that's good for the game/format at a time when EDH is experiencing some growing pains and is trying to figure out what it's going to be past its adolescence as a format.
Side notes: Eternal Dominion would be pretty awesome... and Mulldrifter is still great with Riku, especially with Birthing Pod.
Ancient Tomb: This is a FABulous idea. It's currently in another deck right now (never thought I'd need more than one) but that deck is coming apart very soon anyway. I think you're right here. Do you think I should play a regular-old Temple of the False God as well?
Boseiju, Who Shelters All: I've had some issues with Boseiju in the past with regards to needing to tap it for mana all the time even if I didn't want to. I think it's a good fit though when I'm planning on winning with bombs. I'll consider it.
You've asked the wrong question. It's not "how do you survive?", it's "how do you win first?".
It's a shame (to me) that your LGS makes it difficult to break in because normally I would champion Ingester and friends as the perfect EDH rare for folks just starting out. That said, it sounds like everyone is having a good time there, so assuming you're just trying to find your place in their meta, let me suggest that you go a control/combo route with riku. If you go back and read the suggestions of one Gath Immortal (linked you to the first one here), you will find some ways to make the deck more able to compete with other combo and control decks, which are the ones that are likely winning where you're coming from. Highlights include:
Seedborn Muse/Leyline of Anticipation/Winding Canyons (total board control)
Pact of Negation/Force of Will (and other good counterspells)
Time Warp/Time Stretch/Eternal Witness/Izzet Chronarch/Mnemonic Wall/Body Double/Crystal Shard/Mimic Vat (infinite turns much?)
Survival of the Fittest/Fauna Shaman/Gamble/Worldly Tutor/Mystical Tutor/Fabricate/Intuition/Chord of Calling/Green Sun's Zenith (tutor package, transmute spells are also good)
Palinchron (one-card infinite creatures and infinite mana with Riku out, just get hasty for the win... Anger in the GY via Survival is a good way to do this )
Worldgorger Dragon (infinite ETB triggers and infinite mana with Riku, just use a sac outlet to get your board back when you're done)
Primeval Titan/Ramp (ramp is super important if you're trying to win consistently)
Kiki-Jiki/Pestermite/Tooth and Nail (a very common RUG finisher your table will be quite familiar with)
Niv-Mizzet/Curiosity/Ophidian Eye/Mind over Matter/Eldrazi (no reason you can't run this combo yourself and you can survival for Niv easily)
Stranglehold/Mindlock Orb/Damping Matrix/Null Rod (common combo hosers- there are a lot more than this, search the forums here for more)
And you would cut all the fun, cute stuff and lots of bombs since they wouldn't be your primary means of victory.
Anyway, those are your options. Someone may make a cutthroat Riku deck out there and post it here but that is not my ultimate goal. Part of what I do is teach people to play EDH and I don't intend to dis-enthuse them by winning on the stack. I'm sure you will fit right in though if you make a concerted effort to go combo or at least control and I wish you luck and good times!
I very much appreciate your gratitude. Some may call this deck a little good-stuff-y but I prefer it that way then turning it into a combo deck. I do love the fact that Riku allows you so much flexibility with regards to power level and direction of build, although others have expressed their disinterest in him because he's not much of a "build-around-me" general. Then again, I find those decks to be somewhat linear and they get older faster for me. As far as what he does, I just love copying things and he's in RUG colors, so I pretty much knew from the minute he was spoiled I'd be using him for a very long time. I hope you have as much fun as I expect to as I break this guy in.
Spellskite will get pooh-poohed a lot by EDH regulars but I am seriously considering him having a regular spot in the deck. He requires no mana to activate and your opponents need two removal spells or a wrath to stop him. He, like many solutions below, is also recurrable with Academy Ruins, which is fetchable by Primeval Titan, Sylvan Scrying, Crop Rotation and Expedition Map. Other protection you can run for Riku:
Lightning Greaves (the haste is underrated unless you're playing combo)
Champion's Helm/Darksteel Plate
Willbender
Arcane Denial/Remand/Pact of Negation/Force of Will/Misdirection (cheap counterspells, make sure you have blenty of blue for the latter two)
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP