Yeah as usual I think I'm going to pass on Time Stretch even though I've got a foil 10th edition one sitting in my toolbox. No doubt though that's the end of that game right there... It's probably way better than Genesis Wave in this deck, come to think of it
I was wondering about your mana base, and your thoughts about it. It looks like 90% of your spells are either green or blue, but you've got your mana base pretty equally split between G, R and U. Should the mana base account for the unequal color split, or are you not worried about it since most of your lands can produce dual colors?
I'm going to make a Riku deck too, and I might steal a few of your ideas, if that's okay. I think I'm going to push the envelope farther toward ETB creatures (since I think they're easier to recur than spells).
There's been a lot of talk about whether or not to put Guided Passage in to a Riku deck, did you ever consider it? Seems like a fun card (not as good as Fact or Fiction, though). I also stumbled across Reincarnation, it seems decent for the deck. Riku can copy it and the creature it brings in, it triggers ETBs, and it's an instant.
I was noticing most of the creatures in the deck don't have evasion. Rancor? Akroma's Memorial?
I just read in another Riku thread that a copied World at War gives you 2 extra combat phases in one turn. Sounds like a good finisher to me...
Man I dont think I could build this deck and not drop Palinchron into it. Considering he goes into infinite creatures + infinite mana off of just himself + your commander.
I know you are against doing them though... but god it would be funnnnn.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I'm going to make a Riku deck too, and I might steal a few of your ideas, if that's okay...
Are you kidding? That's the point of the thread :). If I just wanted feedback, I would have PM'd people. I want to contribute to the knowledge base here on MTGS and I'd be delighted to have had my ideas help folks out along the way.
Firstly, let me start by saying I am definitely no manabase expert. I don't have a lot of experience with green decks OR with three color decks but I assure you starting this weekend I will be picking it up very quickly :tongue:.
As for my current manabase, you're right that it's mostly split right now thanks to having so many duals. It's still weighted towards green the most and red the least. I do like to have enough basics in there to fetch for each color though and that's probably what's keeping me from loading up on colorless-producing non-basics. That, and I've been burned by them before even in a two-color deck. The single biggest reason for having two basic mountains in there though is Kiki-Jiki needing :symr::symr::symr:. He is good enough to tweak the manabase a bit to accommodate him, no question about it.
Kher Keep: I don't have anything interesting to do with the 0/1 creatures it makes. If we were sacrificing things or something, it would obviously be a much bigger deal.
Riptide Laboratory: Ok, I'll admit I really like this one. I try to play it every time I've got blue and/or a wizard Commander because of the abuse shenanigans with guys like Venser, Shaper Savant and Glen Elendra Archmage and such. Saving Riku with it though is a costly endeavor though what with needing to leave three mana open to save him and another 5 to recast him. It's almost as if it's better to just let him take a dirt nap and recast him from the command zone. And I'm not worried about tuck or anything because this deck has two survivals in it. Since you said though that your list is probably going to play even more ETB creatures (I did this at first but shifted from Goliaths to Battlecruisers), you should seriously consider it if you're running Venser, Trinket Mage and friends.
I have actually considered Spellskite in the deck as another way to protect Riku and he is also very good in multiples AND he comes back with Academy Ruins. Holy crap, I may be on to something here...
Dryad Arbor: I really don't have any experience with this card. At first glance, I think: "Why would I want to lose a land to Wrath of God?". On second thought, he can hold a sword pretty well too. If you try it, I'm interested to hear how you like it. I'd think general manlands are safer here.
Hall of the Bandit Lord: Riku really likes his mana and I'm not sure it's worth paying three life every time I tap the thing when Greaves does the job and is recurrable in about 10 different ways in this deck, Academy Ruins being the most noteworthy. I understand haste is VERY good in the format, but Greaves will have to do for now.
Winding Canyons: Too expensive, better with Seedborn Muse. Very useful otherwise but I'd rather use two mana to copy my creature than three to play him with flash. I may be proven wrong down the road...
Hideaway Lands: They are an interesting proposition in this deck because very little of the manabase comes into play tapped and the Mosswort Bridge is particularly easy to flip with all the creatures and copying that will be going on. I will heavily consider Mosswort Bridge. I'm not as much a fan of the red one because it is not as easy to flip as you think. People also LOOOVE to blow up these lands too with single non-basic LD.
Guided Passage: I bought one just to put in the deck and it just didn't make it. I mean, what, are we seriously going to cast this over Fact or Fiction? The thing I don't like about the card is that it's only good if you have veeeery close friends at the table. If you are winning, your draw is likely to be crap you don't need (like ramp spells if you're already ahead). If you're losing and you have a friend, then yes, it's sort of a triple demonic tutor. But it's just too situational and FoF is better in just about every way. If you're winning, you still come out ahead because hey, you get to choose the pile. And if you're losing and you have a friend there, you're drawing 5!.
Reincarnation: Cool that it's an instant, uncool that you have to leave 3 or 5 mana open to make it worth it. Also does nothing against control magic or bounce. Also, the spell itself can't be copied by Riku (though the creature can be) because the copy is worthless unless you're trying to beat counters or something. I wouldn't call it a bad card though- it's perfectly serviceable in a Riku deck. I would like the card much better if it worked on opponents' creatures. Voyager Staff is filling this card's role in my deck right now and it's recurrable with Academy Ruins to keep the laughs coming.
Evasion: I guess I don't feel like I need much more evasion. If you feel you need more, Wonder and Brawn go really, really well with the survival effects. Anger gives haste, of course. Akroma's Memorial has too high a mana cost for me and I'm not sure Rancor is worth the card. Honestly, SoFI would beat out all these cards I think.
World at War: I don't like that without Riku out, it's not a good card by itself and it's a dead card if you just got wrathed. The power level is high though in the right situation because Riku can copy rebounded spells. Cast Through Time, anyone? Basically though, it would never make the cut in my deck before Insurrection. It needs no help and just takes out a player every time. I still wonder why the heck I'm not playing it. I guess because of Genesis Wave and Tooth and Nail... but even G-Wave doesn't get me the haste I need to win on that turn.
Yeah, yeah, yet another two-card infinte with the commander :rolleyes:. He goes infinite with Animar too, I believe. This general could really be a menace in the hands of a more cutthroat player. I guess you're used to playing with a stronger crowd? I'm working very hard to get new players into this so I'm a little limited if I want to actually get folks interested who aren't Johnnies.
Copying Wild Ricochet isn't that exciting and I think I want to be tapping out with this deck. Spellskite would normally not be that great but he's pitchable with Survival AND recurrable with Academy Ruins and I think that's a fantastic combination. I love that his ability can be paid with life so I can tap out and still have some spot removal protection. It also means I won't get blown out by a pump spell like, say, Tainted Strike.
More on Academy Ruins... I felt this was a good time to reexamine that and I'm going to go ahead and go back to the old standby Tormod's Crypt for yard hate. Again, recurrable with Academy Ruins and also fetchable with Trinket Mage. It's not as exciting as trying out a new guy but it's an easy swap to make going forward depending on the kind of and amount of yard hate I need going forward.
Note to all saying there is no substitute for exploration in edh: wrong. Burgeoning is strictly better in a multiplayer game and it costs far less. Say hello to 4 lands when you start turn 2.
Ohh, also if you didnt like the cost on Wild Ricochet, you could always try Twincast which is half the cost and still nets you 1-2 copies of whatever is going on depending on if Riku is out. Otherwise I agree that an agro heavy deck has tough time keeping tons of mana open for a Ricochet.
Ohhhh hey I am in your colors for once I am trying out Animar. I look forward to seeing how he works. It will be tricky with all those wraths in my meta.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Note to all saying there is no substitute for exploration in edh: wrong. Burgeoning is strictly better in a multiplayer game and it costs far less. Say hello to 4 lands when you start turn 2.
I forgot about that card. Thanks for bringing it up. Still, if it's not in your opening hand, it's considerably less good. And unlike situational creatures, I can't survival it away. Still, you are right that it is very explosive. I don't know if it's right for this deck but I will consider it as I do every card brought up here.
Ohh, also if you didnt like the cost on Wild Ricochet, you could always try Twincast which is half the cost and still nets you 1-2 copies of whatever is going on depending on if Riku is out. Otherwise I agree that an agro heavy deck has tough time keeping tons of mana open for a Ricochet.
Ohhhh hey I am in your colors for once I am trying out Animar. I look forward to seeing how he works. It will be tricky with all those wraths in my meta.
Yeah I love me some Twincast :). If I have a utility slot open for it, I'll take it down the road. The cool thing about twincast is that if my copy of someone's game-ending spell goes on the stack on top of theirs, I will win first. Exsanguinate for 50? Ohhhh, ME FIRST!
And I wish you very good luck with your Animar build. The only reason I haven't made him is because of Riku and I am SURE I will try him out down the road. Sig your list sometime and I'll grill you on that as well. Don't forget to bring your Palinchron
Yeah I love me some Twincast :). If I have a utility slot open for it, I'll take it down the road. The cool thing about twincast is that if my copy of someone's game-ending spell goes on the stack on top of theirs, I will win first. Exsanguinate for 50? Ohhhh, ME FIRST!
And I wish you very good luck with your Animar build. The only reason I haven't made him is because of Riku and I am SURE I will try him out down the road. Sig your list sometime and I'll grill you on that as well. Don't forget to bring your Palinchron
Sounds good, I got my list updated to my sig if you wana check it out sometime. I am going an evil mass LD route with it. Ohh and dont worry, Palinchron is already in there. Although I do like the whole infinite copies of him spawning that Riku gets. Still an infinitely powered Animar sounds like fun too
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
The thought of 4 turns with Riku just made me shudder. That would probably be game over.
Man I know Genesis Wave is "more fun" but the problem is that it lets my opponents untap. Time Stretch is so much better but I don't want to be a jerk. There just isn't even a question about its power level. If I cast it, I am probably winning. If I copy it, I have won already. Hmmm.
I must play control decks too often; I got caught in thinking that I would probably need this token to protect me in combat at some point. I've got to get used to playing green, lol.
I had sort of the same thought; too vulnerable. I've seen it recommended in some forums, so I thought maybe I was missing something. I think I'll just leave it off my list. Does the ability to copy it with Riku redeem it? Hrmm... I dunno, still seems really vulnerable.
Couldn't copying the spell be useful sometimes? You'd just have to have 2 creatures dying at the same time to have 2 valid targets (hello board wipes!). Probably not what I'd do most of the time, I'd probably be more interested in copying the creature. Also, from the way I read the card, you can use it on your opponent's creatures, I'm just not sure why you'd want to. Anyway, maybe it isn't the best in your list, but it may warrant a slot in mine where I'm going to cram it to the brim with ETB guys and effects that abuse/recur that.
Uhhh... that's what she said? Sorry! I couldn't just let that one go.
Lol I didnt even catch how badly worded that really was until you pointed it out It totally makes me think of Archer, "Just the Tip"
Some other random thoughts,
Tormod's Crypt -> Relic of Progenitus this is completely optional and I do know that you have a few cads in your list that would be nice not to strip. However I dont feel like it is an overwhelming number of cards that rely on your yard, mabe like 8-10. I just wanted to point out that some games drawing Crypt off of the top of the deck is very underwhelming. This has happened to me in my Jenara deck before where I topdecked it when none of my opponents had anything that had intereaction in yards... it was sad. I like how the relic has the option to cycle off but it is at least worth looking at. If you decide that the crypt is how it is going to go so be it. I just thought I would mention it.
Voyager Staff -> Venser, Shaper Savant I just thought I would point out that using Venser could be an alternative in this deck. So here is how this works, you cast him out at instant speed. His ability goes on the stack and so do Riku's. Stack them so that you get Venser's to go off first and you bounce Venser himself with his own ability. You then use riku to make a clone of him and since he is no longer in play the legend rule isnt a problem and you get to bounce something else and throw a 2/2 token at something. I just thought I would throw this one at you for you to decide. The fact that Venser is a legend does make this sort of a pain in the ass but the fact that he has flash makes him better than the AEther Adept / Man O War options.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
If you cast Regrowth, and copy it with Riku, can you grab your Regrowth back along with the other card?
No, because the original Regrowth is still on the stack; the card only goes to the graveyard when the spell resolves (so, you cast Regrowth, Riku's ability triggers and you pay the cost, a copy of Regrowth goes on the stack. The copy resolves, then the original Regrowth spell resolves and goes to the GY).
Hey, not sure if this was answered in the many great replies, but I was wondering something. If you cast something and use Riku's ability to copy it, and before either of those resolve the first spell gets countered, will the copy (the second spell on the stack) still resolve, or will it not have a legal target anymore?
Thanks. I really wanna make a deck too, I might steal some stuff from here
Those are great thoughts. I am always afraid of exiling my library but maybe I shouldn't be such a wuss about it and just take the extra card. As for Venser, yeah, dude is an absolute hero. I might work him in here if I am not impressed with the staff (or a Tawnos's Coffin). He is strong and definitely a favorite card of mine.
Hey, not sure if this was answered in the many great replies, but I was wondering something. If you cast something and use Riku's ability to copy it, and before either of those resolve the first spell gets countered, will the copy (the second spell on the stack) still resolve, or will it not have a legal target anymore?
Thanks. I really wanna make a deck too, I might steal some stuff from here
If you cast an instant or sorcery, Riku's ability triggers and a copy of the spell goes on the stack as soon as you pay for it. The copied spell, now on the stack, no longer cares about the original spell. Your opponent would have to counter both the original AND the copy to stop you. Take from someone who won plenty of standard games Twincasting Runeflare Trap. "Lets see you counter your way out of THAT! MUAHAHAHAAA"
If your creature spell is countered, it never enters the battlefield, so Riku doesn't trigger and you're screwed on that end. Sorry
I would say that is muzzled. It is not cutthroat by any means but I am playing several very powerful cards here. I have purposefully left out several easy infinite combos in this deck.
Riku + Palinchron = Infinite mana and creatures.
Riku + Worldgorger Dragon = Infinte mana (and creatures? Honestly didn't look into this one but I know it's nasty).
Any number of Time Warp/Time Stretch recursion shenanigans = Infinte turns.
If you want to have a chance against Arcum and Zur and friends, you may want to include those bad boys. I do not use that style of play though so you will see those options relegated to the "notable exclusions" section at the bottom of my list. I wish you luck in whatever style you choose.
Worldgorger doesn't make infinite creatures.
It actually leaves you with no field when you finish it.
BUT the trick is you only use it A) when you have counter backup or are sure the opponents have no instant speed kill (as they can do it while his etb trigger is on the stack, making you lose EVERYTHING) and you have an ETB creature like coiling oracle out, then you draw your deck and play everything in your hand for the win. (or if you have woodfall primus terastadon, acid slime etc blow up all lands, ptitan ramp all lands, etc)
I think with p-titan as a note, you can stack the triggers so you can blow up worldgorger with high market and keep all your stuff, I don't know for sure tho...
Also, funny story.
No new suggestions today, sorry, but the story should make up for it.
I was playing a non-creature build. (only creatures were clone, metamorph, vesuvan shapeshifter, etc, basically EVERY creature was a "etb as another creature". And all my spells were either creature copying effects or counters.
So anyway, my pal casts terastadon and seedborn muse.
I cast rite of replication, kicked with riku.
EVERY LAND DIED.
Except mine.
Then I cloned his seedborn.
I actually won, since the 3/3s were so split, no one could hit me since I had more 9/9s than they had 3/3s, and I kept cloning terastadon (lftl + spitting image FTW) and killing lands as soon as they ETB, while shivan gorge did everyone 1 damage per turn.
It was amazing.
As a note, I did find a recommendation, but you won't be able to use it for a while. sneak attack
3 mana for 2 copies of a creature, one of which dies (genesis engine?) and one that you get to keep.
If it only weren't 25 bucks...
But yeah, I'd put it on the "list of things to get in trades/magical money tree discovered go on a spending spree"
And... I'll update this post with more practical cards, I had a whole list that I dug up today while making my competitive riku build.
Probably tomorrow. its really late here. Or I may do a new post. thread moves fast, ya know?
It's funny, but I am pretty sure the first mention of Sneak Attack (that I recall seeing) was the post directly before yours.
I played my list last night in 3 games at the LGS, and it performed admirably, winning each time. Defense of the Heart is so insane with Riku it hurts, and was definitely one of the MVPs. Future Sight was another, allowing me to be more flexible with my spells and just generally being amazing. Birthing Pod gave a solid showing, allowing me to do ridiculous shenanigans with Eternal Witness.
For the record, I know you cut it from the deck, but Crystal Shard was actually instrumental in me winning 2 of the games, allowing me to reuse Witness and such to power into other stuff while I was drawing blanks/lands.
On the topic of sneak attack, the mostly awful through the breach could also work. For some dumb amount of mana, you can copy through the breach and/or the creatures you put into play (what is that, like R4URUGUG if you do all of that?) You can even splice/copy it on to Kodama's Reach!
I will put sneak attack on the "budget concerns" list and try to get one. You guys are right- I totally missed that one.
@Aardvark
Thanks for the data bud, glad you had a good set of rounds! I like very much the idea of recurring my board with Crystal Shard. I think I will put it back in my deck because I still haven't got a Voyager Staff yet and I am finally going to get to build the deck on Tuesday when my product is delivered.
@junk
Lol-tastic Through the Breach as a budget Sneak Attack! I'm pretty sure it costs way too much mana (and a card!) to take seriously but I appreciate the recommendation. The spilce interaction made me chuckle too. Black has a really, really cool version of this card called Treacherous Urge that does the same thing with a creature in an opponent's hand. At least they do the discarding at the end and not you! A shame it's not red...
The thought of 4 turns with Riku just made me shudder. That would probably be game over.
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:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
What are your thoughts about Kher Keep, Riptide Labratory, Dryad Arbor, Hall of the Bandit Lord, Winding Canyons, Mosswort Bridge, and Spinerock Knoll for the deck?
I'm going to make a Riku deck too, and I might steal a few of your ideas, if that's okay. I think I'm going to push the envelope farther toward ETB creatures (since I think they're easier to recur than spells).
There's been a lot of talk about whether or not to put Guided Passage in to a Riku deck, did you ever consider it? Seems like a fun card (not as good as Fact or Fiction, though). I also stumbled across Reincarnation, it seems decent for the deck. Riku can copy it and the creature it brings in, it triggers ETBs, and it's an instant.
I was noticing most of the creatures in the deck don't have evasion. Rancor? Akroma's Memorial?
I just read in another Riku thread that a copied World at War gives you 2 extra combat phases in one turn. Sounds like a good finisher to me...
:symu::symr::symg:Riku of Two Reflections (ETB toolbox)
:symw::symb::symr:Kaalia of the Vast Reanimator
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Karona's Proliferating Allies
Teferi, mage of Zhalfir
I know you are against doing them though... but god it would be funnnnn.
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Are you kidding? That's the point of the thread :). If I just wanted feedback, I would have PM'd people. I want to contribute to the knowledge base here on MTGS and I'd be delighted to have had my ideas help folks out along the way.
Firstly, let me start by saying I am definitely no manabase expert. I don't have a lot of experience with green decks OR with three color decks but I assure you starting this weekend I will be picking it up very quickly :tongue:.
As for my current manabase, you're right that it's mostly split right now thanks to having so many duals. It's still weighted towards green the most and red the least. I do like to have enough basics in there to fetch for each color though and that's probably what's keeping me from loading up on colorless-producing non-basics. That, and I've been burned by them before even in a two-color deck. The single biggest reason for having two basic mountains in there though is Kiki-Jiki needing :symr::symr::symr:. He is good enough to tweak the manabase a bit to accommodate him, no question about it.
Kher Keep: I don't have anything interesting to do with the 0/1 creatures it makes. If we were sacrificing things or something, it would obviously be a much bigger deal.
Riptide Laboratory: Ok, I'll admit I really like this one. I try to play it every time I've got blue and/or a wizard Commander because of the abuse shenanigans with guys like Venser, Shaper Savant and Glen Elendra Archmage and such. Saving Riku with it though is a costly endeavor though what with needing to leave three mana open to save him and another 5 to recast him. It's almost as if it's better to just let him take a dirt nap and recast him from the command zone. And I'm not worried about tuck or anything because this deck has two survivals in it. Since you said though that your list is probably going to play even more ETB creatures (I did this at first but shifted from Goliaths to Battlecruisers), you should seriously consider it if you're running Venser, Trinket Mage and friends.
I have actually considered Spellskite in the deck as another way to protect Riku and he is also very good in multiples AND he comes back with Academy Ruins. Holy crap, I may be on to something here...
Dryad Arbor: I really don't have any experience with this card. At first glance, I think: "Why would I want to lose a land to Wrath of God?". On second thought, he can hold a sword pretty well too. If you try it, I'm interested to hear how you like it. I'd think general manlands are safer here.
Hall of the Bandit Lord: Riku really likes his mana and I'm not sure it's worth paying three life every time I tap the thing when Greaves does the job and is recurrable in about 10 different ways in this deck, Academy Ruins being the most noteworthy. I understand haste is VERY good in the format, but Greaves will have to do for now.
Winding Canyons: Too expensive, better with Seedborn Muse. Very useful otherwise but I'd rather use two mana to copy my creature than three to play him with flash. I may be proven wrong down the road...
Hideaway Lands: They are an interesting proposition in this deck because very little of the manabase comes into play tapped and the Mosswort Bridge is particularly easy to flip with all the creatures and copying that will be going on. I will heavily consider Mosswort Bridge. I'm not as much a fan of the red one because it is not as easy to flip as you think. People also LOOOVE to blow up these lands too with single non-basic LD.
Guided Passage: I bought one just to put in the deck and it just didn't make it. I mean, what, are we seriously going to cast this over Fact or Fiction? The thing I don't like about the card is that it's only good if you have veeeery close friends at the table. If you are winning, your draw is likely to be crap you don't need (like ramp spells if you're already ahead). If you're losing and you have a friend, then yes, it's sort of a triple demonic tutor. But it's just too situational and FoF is better in just about every way. If you're winning, you still come out ahead because hey, you get to choose the pile. And if you're losing and you have a friend there, you're drawing 5!.
Reincarnation: Cool that it's an instant, uncool that you have to leave 3 or 5 mana open to make it worth it. Also does nothing against control magic or bounce. Also, the spell itself can't be copied by Riku (though the creature can be) because the copy is worthless unless you're trying to beat counters or something. I wouldn't call it a bad card though- it's perfectly serviceable in a Riku deck. I would like the card much better if it worked on opponents' creatures. Voyager Staff is filling this card's role in my deck right now and it's recurrable with Academy Ruins to keep the laughs coming.
Evasion: I guess I don't feel like I need much more evasion. If you feel you need more, Wonder and Brawn go really, really well with the survival effects. Anger gives haste, of course. Akroma's Memorial has too high a mana cost for me and I'm not sure Rancor is worth the card. Honestly, SoFI would beat out all these cards I think.
World at War: I don't like that without Riku out, it's not a good card by itself and it's a dead card if you just got wrathed. The power level is high though in the right situation because Riku can copy rebounded spells. Cast Through Time, anyone? Basically though, it would never make the cut in my deck before Insurrection. It needs no help and just takes out a player every time. I still wonder why the heck I'm not playing it. I guess because of Genesis Wave and Tooth and Nail... but even G-Wave doesn't get me the haste I need to win on that turn.
Yeah, yeah, yet another two-card infinte with the commander :rolleyes:. He goes infinite with Animar too, I believe. This general could really be a menace in the hands of a more cutthroat player. I guess you're used to playing with a stronger crowd? I'm working very hard to get new players into this so I'm a little limited if I want to actually get folks interested who aren't Johnnies.
CHANGES:
Wild Ricochet-->Spellskite
Scavenging Ooze-->Tormod's Crypt
Copying Wild Ricochet isn't that exciting and I think I want to be tapping out with this deck. Spellskite would normally not be that great but he's pitchable with Survival AND recurrable with Academy Ruins and I think that's a fantastic combination. I love that his ability can be paid with life so I can tap out and still have some spot removal protection. It also means I won't get blown out by a pump spell like, say, Tainted Strike.
More on Academy Ruins... I felt this was a good time to reexamine that and I'm going to go ahead and go back to the old standby Tormod's Crypt for yard hate. Again, recurrable with Academy Ruins and also fetchable with Trinket Mage. It's not as exciting as trying out a new guy but it's an easy swap to make going forward depending on the kind of and amount of yard hate I need going forward.
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
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:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
(Multiplayer)
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of Jund
WUBSharuum the Hegemon
(American 1v1)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking Grave
WUGDerevi
Ohhhh hey I am in your colors for once I am trying out Animar. I look forward to seeing how he works. It will be tricky with all those wraths in my meta.
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I forgot about that card. Thanks for bringing it up. Still, if it's not in your opening hand, it's considerably less good. And unlike situational creatures, I can't survival it away. Still, you are right that it is very explosive. I don't know if it's right for this deck but I will consider it as I do every card brought up here.
Yeah I love me some Twincast :). If I have a utility slot open for it, I'll take it down the road. The cool thing about twincast is that if my copy of someone's game-ending spell goes on the stack on top of theirs, I will win first. Exsanguinate for 50? Ohhhh, ME FIRST!
And I wish you very good luck with your Animar build. The only reason I haven't made him is because of Riku and I am SURE I will try him out down the road. Sig your list sometime and I'll grill you on that as well. Don't forget to bring your Palinchron
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
Sounds good, I got my list updated to my sig if you wana check it out sometime. I am going an evil mass LD route with it. Ohh and dont worry, Palinchron is already in there. Although I do like the whole infinite copies of him spawning that Riku gets. Still an infinitely powered Animar sounds like fun too
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[Modern] Allies
Man I know Genesis Wave is "more fun" but the problem is that it lets my opponents untap. Time Stretch is so much better but I don't want to be a jerk. There just isn't even a question about its power level. If I cast it, I am probably winning. If I copy it, I have won already. Hmmm.
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
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[Modern] Allies
Well I can't build the deck for another couple days (my product arrives on Tuesday) so I have some more time to stew over it...
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
I must play control decks too often; I got caught in thinking that I would probably need this token to protect me in combat at some point. I've got to get used to playing green, lol.
I had sort of the same thought; too vulnerable. I've seen it recommended in some forums, so I thought maybe I was missing something. I think I'll just leave it off my list. Does the ability to copy it with Riku redeem it? Hrmm... I dunno, still seems really vulnerable.
Good thoughts. Thanks for your perspective on those.
Couldn't copying the spell be useful sometimes? You'd just have to have 2 creatures dying at the same time to have 2 valid targets (hello board wipes!). Probably not what I'd do most of the time, I'd probably be more interested in copying the creature. Also, from the way I read the card, you can use it on your opponent's creatures, I'm just not sure why you'd want to. Anyway, maybe it isn't the best in your list, but it may warrant a slot in mine where I'm going to cram it to the brim with ETB guys and effects that abuse/recur that.
I read a blue player's list a while back that said, "Blue EDH lists without Time Stretch make Baby Jesus cry." So there is that...
Anyway, I really like this discussion about Riku's possibilities in general, thanks for the discussion.
Uhhh... that's what she said? Sorry! I couldn't just let that one go.
:symu::symr::symg:Riku of Two Reflections (ETB toolbox)
:symw::symb::symr:Kaalia of the Vast Reanimator
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Karona's Proliferating Allies
Teferi, mage of Zhalfir
Lol I didnt even catch how badly worded that really was until you pointed it out It totally makes me think of Archer, "Just the Tip"
Some other random thoughts,
Tormod's Crypt -> Relic of Progenitus this is completely optional and I do know that you have a few cads in your list that would be nice not to strip. However I dont feel like it is an overwhelming number of cards that rely on your yard, mabe like 8-10. I just wanted to point out that some games drawing Crypt off of the top of the deck is very underwhelming. This has happened to me in my Jenara deck before where I topdecked it when none of my opponents had anything that had intereaction in yards... it was sad. I like how the relic has the option to cycle off but it is at least worth looking at. If you decide that the crypt is how it is going to go so be it. I just thought I would mention it.
Voyager Staff -> Venser, Shaper Savant I just thought I would point out that using Venser could be an alternative in this deck. So here is how this works, you cast him out at instant speed. His ability goes on the stack and so do Riku's. Stack them so that you get Venser's to go off first and you bounce Venser himself with his own ability. You then use riku to make a clone of him and since he is no longer in play the legend rule isnt a problem and you get to bounce something else and throw a 2/2 token at something. I just thought I would throw this one at you for you to decide. The fact that Venser is a legend does make this sort of a pain in the ass but the fact that he has flash makes him better than the AEther Adept / Man O War options.
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[Modern] Allies
:symu::symr::symg:Riku of Two Reflections (ETB toolbox)
:symw::symb::symr:Kaalia of the Vast Reanimator
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Karona's Proliferating Allies
Teferi, mage of Zhalfir
No, because the original Regrowth is still on the stack; the card only goes to the graveyard when the spell resolves (so, you cast Regrowth, Riku's ability triggers and you pay the cost, a copy of Regrowth goes on the stack. The copy resolves, then the original Regrowth spell resolves and goes to the GY).
Thanks. I really wanna make a deck too, I might steal some stuff from here
Those are great thoughts. I am always afraid of exiling my library but maybe I shouldn't be such a wuss about it and just take the extra card. As for Venser, yeah, dude is an absolute hero. I might work him in here if I am not impressed with the staff (or a Tawnos's Coffin). He is strong and definitely a favorite card of mine.
This has already been answered obviously (actually twice now), but the REAL correct answer is "I wish".
If you cast an instant or sorcery, Riku's ability triggers and a copy of the spell goes on the stack as soon as you pay for it. The copied spell, now on the stack, no longer cares about the original spell. Your opponent would have to counter both the original AND the copy to stop you. Take from someone who won plenty of standard games Twincasting Runeflare Trap. "Lets see you counter your way out of THAT! MUAHAHAHAAA"
If your creature spell is countered, it never enters the battlefield, so Riku doesn't trigger and you're screwed on that end. Sorry
Good luck with your deck!
I would say that is muzzled. It is not cutthroat by any means but I am playing several very powerful cards here. I have purposefully left out several easy infinite combos in this deck.
Riku + Palinchron = Infinite mana and creatures.
Riku + Worldgorger Dragon = Infinte mana (and creatures? Honestly didn't look into this one but I know it's nasty).
Any number of Time Warp/Time Stretch recursion shenanigans = Infinte turns.
If you want to have a chance against Arcum and Zur and friends, you may want to include those bad boys. I do not use that style of play though so you will see those options relegated to the "notable exclusions" section at the bottom of my list. I wish you luck in whatever style you choose.
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
It actually leaves you with no field when you finish it.
BUT the trick is you only use it A) when you have counter backup or are sure the opponents have no instant speed kill (as they can do it while his etb trigger is on the stack, making you lose EVERYTHING) and you have an ETB creature like coiling oracle out, then you draw your deck and play everything in your hand for the win. (or if you have woodfall primus terastadon, acid slime etc blow up all lands, ptitan ramp all lands, etc)
I think with p-titan as a note, you can stack the triggers so you can blow up worldgorger with high market and keep all your stuff, I don't know for sure tho...
Also, funny story.
No new suggestions today, sorry, but the story should make up for it.
I was playing a non-creature build. (only creatures were clone, metamorph, vesuvan shapeshifter, etc, basically EVERY creature was a "etb as another creature". And all my spells were either creature copying effects or counters.
So anyway, my pal casts terastadon and seedborn muse.
I cast rite of replication, kicked with riku.
EVERY LAND DIED.
Except mine.
Then I cloned his seedborn.
I actually won, since the 3/3s were so split, no one could hit me since I had more 9/9s than they had 3/3s, and I kept cloning terastadon (lftl + spitting image FTW) and killing lands as soon as they ETB, while shivan gorge did everyone 1 damage per turn.
It was amazing.
UWBSharuum the HegemonBWU
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestGU
And people wonder what's so cool about this guy...
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
sneak attack
3 mana for 2 copies of a creature, one of which dies (genesis engine?) and one that you get to keep.
If it only weren't 25 bucks...
But yeah, I'd put it on the "list of things to get in trades/magical money tree discovered go on a spending spree"
And... I'll update this post with more practical cards, I had a whole list that I dug up today while making my competitive riku build.
Probably tomorrow. its really late here. Or I may do a new post. thread moves fast, ya know?
UWBSharuum the HegemonBWU
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestGU
It's funny, but I am pretty sure the first mention of Sneak Attack (that I recall seeing) was the post directly before yours.
I played my list last night in 3 games at the LGS, and it performed admirably, winning each time. Defense of the Heart is so insane with Riku it hurts, and was definitely one of the MVPs. Future Sight was another, allowing me to be more flexible with my spells and just generally being amazing. Birthing Pod gave a solid showing, allowing me to do ridiculous shenanigans with Eternal Witness.
For the record, I know you cut it from the deck, but Crystal Shard was actually instrumental in me winning 2 of the games, allowing me to reuse Witness and such to power into other stuff while I was drawing blanks/lands.
Man, Riku is stoopid.
@Aardvark
Thanks for the data bud, glad you had a good set of rounds! I like very much the idea of recurring my board with Crystal Shard. I think I will put it back in my deck because I still haven't got a Voyager Staff yet and I am finally going to get to build the deck on Tuesday when my product is delivered.
@junk
Lol-tastic Through the Breach as a budget Sneak Attack! I'm pretty sure it costs way too much mana (and a card!) to take seriously but I appreciate the recommendation. The spilce interaction made me chuckle too. Black has a really, really cool version of this card called Treacherous Urge that does the same thing with a creature in an opponent's hand. At least they do the discarding at the end and not you! A shame it's not red...
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP