Added Cream of the Crop to the useful cards list. The THINGS you can do with it!
On an aside, I think I'm going to take apart my current deck and rebuild it, but with a particular idea in mind. What do you think would make good winning conditions among all of the cards I've listed on the decks and the useful card lists? Feel free to add anything I missed.
Dang! I had no idea there were new posts in this thread.
I really haven't made many modifications to my deck. Been mostly playing Legacy. That said, even though it's not optimized, I get wins most of the time with the deck. All about making sure you have shroud and indestructible and then comboing off. If I feel like fun I'll Voltron. So many ways to win with this deck.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
*The Queen chitters with joy as her long-lost servant walks once again into the royal chambers*
I got the idea a few days ago. My brother helped organize a huge event, with several tournaments happening on the same day. There was a Commander tournament even. Regrettably, it flopped - very few people showed up - but one thing the whole shebang left me with was the nagging feeling my decklists don't measure well against a tier-1 general such as, say, Narset or Zur.
So, I decided to start the other way around. Pick winning conditions first, and select staples to support them next.
Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
I've checked everything I can. All say to email me any time a post I'm subscribed to has a reply and to subscribe me to any thread I've posted in.
Still nothing. :shrugs:
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
How do you guys handle it, hive members? You reveal your commander and you get hated out. My list is running around 28 slivers but recent games I spent as the archenemy which makes me feel like I should run interaction, which comes at the expense of creatures. Spiritually, how do you make peace with cutting slivers to run more practical cards and call yourself a sliver deck?
How do you guys handle it, hive members? You reveal your commander and you get hated out. My list is running around 28 slivers but recent games I spent as the archenemy which makes me feel like I should run interaction, which comes at the expense of creatures. Spiritually, how do you make peace with cutting slivers to run more practical cards and call yourself a sliver deck?
I only run 22 Slivers in mine. I run ramp, destruction, and control stuff to make it further in the game. I try to hold off until I have a decent amount to play in 1 turn with some protection. From there I build. Having indestructible and shroud usually gets you in a great place to build your forces.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
How do you guys handle it, hive members? You reveal your commander and you get hated out. My list is running around 28 slivers but recent games I spent as the archenemy which makes me feel like I should run interaction, which comes at the expense of creatures. Spiritually, how do you make peace with cutting slivers to run more practical cards and call yourself a sliver deck?
*The Queen shakes her head ruefully* I've had similar stuff told to me in the past. IMHO slivers stand at a disadvantage regarding other tribes. They're too powerful to go casual - even a list where your every nonland card consists of slivers (a clunky and inefficient plan, really) is going to pound the rest of the table into submission. And they're too underpowered to stand toe to toe with other tribes in a competitive environment: the best goblin decks will absolutely steamroll us, not to mention allies or elves.
Oftentimes I like to joke about just how much the slivers resemble the Tyranids from 40k. The alien intelligence in command of that swarm always adapts to overcome threats, and so should we. Just in the same way the 'nids would deploy xenomorph-like assassins to take out key enemy figureheads or straight-out subvert them by mind-controlling them, we will resort to non-sliver critters to do the jobs they can't - the none too kindly called thralls.
I only run 22 Slivers in mine. I run ramp, destruction, and control stuff to make it further in the game. I try to hold off until I have a decent amount to play in 1 turn with some protection. From there I build. Having indestructible and shroud usually gets you in a great place to build your forces.
Danz's concept is a good starting point. You'll have to back up this strategy with countermeasures to neutralize threats that can evade those defenses (say, mass exile or tucking, effects that cause you to sacrifice permanents, and the occasional Ixidron).
Furthermore, I think it is good to revisit a solid piece of wisdom, courtesy of Raging Levine:
Quote from Raging Levine »
In Commander, the first person to do something nuts has the responsibility to protect it.
Regrettably, for us servants of the Hive, merely having three or more slivers in play automatically qualifies as 'doing something nuts'. That presents us with a conundrum - we need to have our spawn on the board to win.
My answer to this is to hold on to them and field them as responses. You're going to need as many flash-giving things in play as you possibly can to do it. Quick Sliver is, of course, a given; Vedalken Orrery and Winding Canyons will also perform well.
The game plan is to play many cheap slivers as early as possible and to attack aggressively. I don’t know if my opponents will let that happen and in multiplayer games with more mass removal it seems to be more unlikely.
My experience with such strategies has not been a good one. It repeatedly happens to me that whenever I have two or more slivers in play everyone stops and looks carefully at what I'm doing, even if they were durdling around before that. You try and pursue that plan, better be prepared to defend your plays or, worse still, to become de facto Archenemy.
I think, I want to play mana stones, instead of ramp. Also I don’t want to play counters, because I would like to play rather active and cast creatures than reactive and saving up mana.
I've found that mana stones usually are more fragile than lands. My current strategy heavily hinges on having few nonpermanent spells, so my list is brimming with them regardless. Now, about not using countermagic - I can hardly fault your reasoning, though I have my misgivings (see previous comment). Furthermore, stuff like Paradox Engine will more often than not earn a first-class ticket to the graveyard the moment they land, which means you'll profit from such staples only by deploying them simultaneously - and that requires, of course, mana by the truckload, which means they'll be dead weights in your hands up until that point.
My actual decklist contains 104 cards, so i have to cut something. Also, I’m not happy with the amount of pointremoval and not sure about the count of lands and creatures.
Your picks are all good, so it's really hard for me to point out stuff I'd ditch. I will at least say that unless you have ways to protect it, you won't profit much from Rhystic Study. It's an absolute pain in the ass, and it will draw a lot of attention your way.
I never found much use out of the Changeling strategy. It's cute, but usually I'd rather Slivers have shroud so it doesn't really do much good.
I also play far less slivers. My only non-sliver creature is Kozilek because he stops mill strategies and is a nasty thing to drop in a game. OG Ulamog can work as well.
I also run Day of Judgment over Wrath since I have regeneration. I also like Tooth and Nail better than Chord, but both are solid cards.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Hello! This primer has been a huge help to me, so thank you to the responsible parties for creating it!
I used the "Great Devourer" list but modified it a bit and would love to talk about my choices, and moreso, hear your thoughts on my choices. I will post the list later, i dont have acces to it right now as i am trapped in a boring class in school.
What really brought me to create a profile here is the following question:
Any thoughts on Biomancer's Familiar from the new set? Worth an include? Should it replace Training Grounds or compliment it? What slot should it replace if we include it?
Hello! This primer has been a huge help to me, so thank you to the responsible parties for creating it!
I used the "Great Devourer" list but modified it a bit and would love to talk about my choices, and moreso, hear your thoughts on my choices. I will post the list later, i dont have acces to it right now as i am trapped in a boring class in school.
What really brought me to create a profile here is the following question:
Any thoughts on Biomancer's Familiar from the new set? Worth an include? Should it replace Training Grounds or compliment it? What slot should it replace if we include it?
Probably a decent include, but I'd probably run it in addition to Training Grounds. Training Grounds is so good that a second copy at 1 green mana more would be welcome.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Probably a decent include, but I'd probably run it in addition to Training Grounds. Training Grounds is so good that a second copy at 1 green mana more would be welcome.
Galerider Sliver - Flying for U is nice, but i am considering removing both this guy and Winged Sliver for some higher value cards Winged Sliver Quick sliver - MVP when the deck goes of, must have. Diffusion Sliver - This guy is also close to being swapped out, but it might simply be that i don't notice spells NOT targeting my Slivers. On the fence Victual Sliver - Can turn sweepers into life gain, but seems a little janky? also in danger of being swapped. Not proactive enough. Crypt Sliver - MVP, must have Heart Sliver - MVP, must have Crystalline Sliver - MVP, must have Muscle Sliver - Close to swapping, but sometimes bodies are just nice to have on the board. On the fence Sinew Sliver - If i cut muscle i will cut this guy too. Thinking of Ward Sliver and the coinflip Sliver to replace them maybe? Hibernation Sliver - Possibly the single most useful Sliver in my eyes. Won many games on this guy. Predatory Sliver - Same as muscle and sinew Gemhide Sliver - MVP, must have Manaweft Sliver - MVP, must have Syphon Sliver - MVP, must have Opaline Sliver - Nice value when its ability goes off, it rarely does though. I guess the deterrent factor is usefull? in doubt if this is proactive enough Necrotic Sliver - MVP, must have Harmonic Sliver - Up there with Hibernation Sliver. Massive MVP Dormant Sliver - Massive value! Huge MVP Telekinetic Sliver - A whole board of Maze of Iths? Yes please! Bonescythe Sliver - Saved my ass in an epic fight against a Stax deck. Love the guy Shifting Sliver - Awesome Finisher Essence Sliver - Stacks with Syphon Sliver, very useful! Root Sliver - Compliments Cavern of Souls. Highly useful in the right matchup. Pulmonic Sliver - Flying is nice, but the graveyard shenanigans is where it really shines. Even then, i wonder if its too slow? Sliver Queen - I took out the combo since i never got it off. she is good value on her own, but i wonder if we can find more value in another card? Then again, her and Legion on the same board is a severe threat. Thoughts? Might Sliver - Might swap. Same thoughts as Muscle Sliver and Sinew Sliver Brood Sliver - Baits removal instantly in my playgroup, so that's useful. Synapse Sliver - Good value Sliver Hivelord - Indestructible slivers? Yes please! Sliver Legion - Win con in itself. Won me many games.
Genestealer Cult (12):
Amoeboid Changeling - Only once did this guy help me out. Considering swapping Eternal Witness - Good value, deck needs the graveyard recursion. Does solid work, especially together with Sun Titan & Skullclamp Yavimaya Elder - Part of the draw and ramp package, solid card, Skullclamp target. Purphoros, God of the Forge - Even without the Sliver Queen combo he just lies there and pings. Ping ping ping. And then a Living Death resolves and everybody dies. MVP Academy Rector - Wonderfull card, i either get Omniscience or Journey to Eternity depending on gamestate. Solid card. Oracle of Mul Daya - Crazy card together with exploration. Great ramp! Karametra, God of Harvests - Just sits there and ramps. Ramp ramp ramp. Love it. Seedborn Muse - This list often comes down to "did you draw or tutor muse? You win. Did you not? You lose!" Maybe i fail to see all the lines of play possible? Acidic Slime - Such a nice card. Sun Titan - Again a fantastic card. Nice synergies with Journey and Eternal witness. All around value generator. Rune-Scarred Demon - Demonic Tutor on a stick. Nuff said. Kozilek, Butcher of Truth - Easily ramped into with Coffers and Itlimoc and whatever else ramp, good way of recurring your graveyard too. I don't see myself not running him.
Cult Leader:
Vivien Reid - Slots right in. Love this card. Her ult won me a couple games.
Sacred relics of the Adeptus Mechanicus stolen by the cult (9):
Skullclamp - Love this card, and this deck has several good targets. Even the not so good targets can just be recurred if you really need the draw. Chromatic Lantern - Mana fixing like no other. Darksteel Ingot - Target for Harmonic Slivers ability. Sol Ring - Duh. Vanquisher's Banner - The draw is nuts! MVP, must have. Sword of Feast and Famine - Fills the same role as Seedborn Muse. Stoneforge Mystic could raise my winrate by fetching it. Can grab the clamp too. I really want a Stoneforge Mystic. Burnished Hart - Unsure on this guy. Feel like other more powerful cards could fill the slot. Solemn Simulacrum - This guy however is always nice to draw. Crucible of Worlds - Needed for fetchlands in the yard.
Omniscience - Feels cheesy to get it on turn 5 with Academy Rector. Exploration - Ramp ramp ramp Into the Wilds - Ramp ramp ramp Journey to Eternity - Slots right in. if it ends in the yard, bring it back with Sun Titan. Trigger it with Necrotic. Wear opponent out with endless value. MVP, must have Growing Rites of Itlimoc - Fits right in. When i get my Cradle i think i will leave it in. Wonderful card. Phyrexian Arena - Classic, fits right in.
Mana (26):
10x Fetches
2x OG duals
5x GRN shocklands
1x Mountain
1x Island
2x Forest
1x Plain
1x Swamp
1x Gemstone Mine
1x Command Tower
1x Ancient Ziggurat
Utility Lands (9):
Buried Ruin - Unsure about this guy, point is to get Crucible and Sword back, but often a dead draw. Maybe Muldrotha instead? Sliver Hive - Nice fixing, the rare token, and flavour. Not bad but not insane either. Keeping it mostly for flavour. Cavern of Souls - Very good in certain matchups. Exotic orchard - This guy i just put in because multiplayer. Probably gonna swap. Cabal Coffers - Commander tax needs paying? The cabal's got your back! Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth - Coffers needs this guy. Strip Mine - Feelbad card for my opponent, feel good card for me. Maze of Ith - love this guy Volrath's Stronghold - The flavour is strong, but i feel its a bit slow. Unsure what to sub with though, and the flavour IS nice.
Maybe pile:
Distant Melody - Good draw. This deck can use the draw often i feel. But sometimes hard to get value out of this guy. What would be better draw? Loxodon Warhammer - Lifelink is nice, trample is nice. But maybe some other equipment is better? Assassin's Trophy - I feel like it is good removal, but i also feel like the ramp you give to your opponents is not negligible Profane Procession Repeatable removal that becomes mana fixing. Maybe too slow?
*The Queen regards the newcomer warmly and chitters with joy*
I'm passionate about slivers to a point not matched by anything else in MtG. Hell, in my pantheon they're next to things like S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Mass Effect, the Tzimisce, and Puella Magi Madoka Magica.
This thread is the result of all your work and contributions. I'm merely the janitor that keeps everything tidy. Usually DanzBorin or Gref have more and better insights than I do, probably owing to their broader experience. I'm rather narrow-minded when it comes to Magic, and that's probably my main flaw here.
Galerider Sliver - Flying for U is nice, but i am considering removing both this guy and Winged Sliver for some higher value cards
I tried doing this, experimented. The result: you gotta have flying. Not for offense, you got other things that will help you punch through. Not having flyers will hurt your defense a lot.
Diffusion Sliver - This guy is also close to being swapped out, but it might simply be that i don't notice spells NOT targeting my Slivers. On the fence Opaline Sliver - Nice value when its ability goes off, it rarely does though. I guess the deterrent factor is usefull? in doubt if this is proactive enough
If people want to kill your slivers, they'll cough up the extra mana or let you have that extra card. I'd swap them out. Long story short: things that proc once in a while are a precious waste of slots.
Victual Sliver - Can turn sweepers into life gain, but seems a little janky? also in danger of being swapped. Not proactive enough.
Darkheart Sliver is much, much better, if only for the simple reason that you don't have to pay mana on top of saccing to activate it. Typical response for a boardwipe - you can't bounce them, then turn them into food.
Muscle Sliver - Close to swapping, but sometimes bodies are just nice to have on the board. On the fence Sinew Sliver - If i cut muscle i will cut this guy too. Thinking of Ward Sliver and the coinflip Sliver to replace them maybe? Predatory Sliver - Same as muscle and sinew Might Sliver - Might swap. Same thoughts as Muscle Sliver and Sinew Sliver
Replace them all. Gonna ship something that beefs up your slivers, might as well go all the way and bring in Megantic Sliver.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth - Easily ramped into with Coffers and Itlimoc and whatever else ramp, good way of recurring your graveyard too. I don't see myself not running him.
I'll have to try this one out, too.
EDIT - props to you for the 40k references. I'll have to adapt the main decklist to copy your format. Loved it!
I've always run Kozilek, if you hard cast him you get cards, if you tooth and nail him you crush someone's board.
Ditch Crypt Sliver. Crystalline stops it from working. Use Sedge Sliver instead.
Flying slivers are a must.
Changeling isn't good. Once again, stopped from working by Crystalline. If you have Crystalline and Hivelord in play it's tough for them to deal with you.
I feel you have WAY too few lands. At least throw in the Battlebond duals until you can replace them.
Always have the Queen in your deck. The combo is pretty easy to set up and wins games. Plus she's a 7/7 that has a boatload of abilities with other slivers. Nothing to sneeze at.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Any reason it is not on the usefull cards list? Many high value slivers are power 2 or less. His casting cost equals the Overlords tutoring ability cost, except it is theoretically possible to cast the recruiter before your commander is in play. Could potentially be a way of fixing your early game, or is it too janky?
Any reason it is not on the usefull cards list? Many high value slivers are power 2 or less. His casting cost equals the Overlords tutoring ability cost, except it is theoretically possible to cast the recruiter before your commander is in play. Could potentially be a way of fixing your early game, or is it too janky?
Recruiter is generally used in decks that can't tutor easily. In 5 color you have lots of tutors that are better. You could certainly try it out, but I think you will find better options.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Long time viewer.. First time poster.. Been checking this thread off an on for a year or two.. It has been super helpful.. Thanks to the person who put this primer together and has kept it updated.
I'll be posting my deck in the next few days with a couple questions I hope some of you can answer for me.. It's not a typical sliver build but it's main point is still all about the slivers.. It's def a mid budget deck and a 6-7/10 on the competetive scale. I've had to make some changes to even allow my group to let me use the deck or atleast come in under the radar a tiny bit more. I hope it's still ok to post decks that aren't tournament tuned and win on turn 4 because that's not my deck.. It's a casual but deadly build in my small town meta and just overall fun to play.. So if that's cool I'll post my deck in the next few days for some advice
Long time viewer.. First time poster.. Been checking this thread off an on for a year or two.. It has been super helpful.. Thanks to the person who put this primer together and has kept it updated.
I'll be posting my deck in the next few days with a couple questions I hope some of you can answer for me.. It's not a typical sliver build but it's main point is still all about the slivers.. It's def a mid budget deck and a 6-7/10 on the competetive scale. I've had to make some changes to even allow my group to let me use the deck or atleast come in under the radar a tiny bit more. I hope it's still ok to post decks that aren't tournament tuned and win on turn 4 because that's not my deck.. It's a casual but deadly build in my small town meta and just overall fun to play.. So if that's cool I'll post my deck in the next few days for some advice
Certainly! I like seeing more laid back approaches. I generally don't play mine for infinite combo unless folks force me. There are so many fun ways to play with Slivers! Sadly people assume the worst when the Overlord is revealed as your commander.
I haven't updated mine since the days of BFZ. I probably need to give it a spit shine.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Hey there! Glad to know that wall of text with pretensions of coolness actually is good enough to help someone. Most of the merit goes to people like DanzBorin and Gref. I'm just the janitor here.
Speaking of Danz, he's definitely right. It's perfectly fine to play slivers just for fun - hell, back in the day EDH was kitchen table Magic, it all was like that. Then things got serious and everything escalated to the point we have that pesky COMPETITIVENESS thing to worry about in a format that can be broken six ways from Sunday.
My two cents - I believe the hatred slivers get is undeserved and exaggerated. Everyone panics whenever the Overlord is revealed but no one bats an eye at any one of the myriad stax commanders out there. Me, I'd much rather go against an ax crazy commander like, say, Kresh the Bloodbraided or any other deck that tries to bury me under a living tide of elves or goblins or what have you than having to put up with Grand Arbiter Augustin IV. To put it succinctly - when I sit down and pull my deck out, I want to play. I don't sit down to just watch someone not allowing anyone to play.
On an aside, I think I'm going to take apart my current deck and rebuild it, but with a particular idea in mind. What do you think would make good winning conditions among all of the cards I've listed on the decks and the useful card lists? Feel free to add anything I missed.
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
I really haven't made many modifications to my deck. Been mostly playing Legacy. That said, even though it's not optimized, I get wins most of the time with the deck. All about making sure you have shroud and indestructible and then comboing off. If I feel like fun I'll Voltron. So many ways to win with this deck.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
I got the idea a few days ago. My brother helped organize a huge event, with several tournaments happening on the same day. There was a Commander tournament even. Regrettably, it flopped - very few people showed up - but one thing the whole shebang left me with was the nagging feeling my decklists don't measure well against a tier-1 general such as, say, Narset or Zur.
So, I decided to start the other way around. Pick winning conditions first, and select staples to support them next.
That said, so far I've picked these:
- Mana Echoes - combo with Sliver Queen for infinite tokens
- Purphoros, God of the Forge - Either synergize with the previous one or go off with Primal Surge
- Sliver Legion - well, duh.
- Triumph of the Hordes - Lots of skittering horrors with infect
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Found a couple of interesting lands to add to the useful cards list: Arena and Path of Ancestry.
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
Still nothing. :shrugs:
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
I only run 22 Slivers in mine. I run ramp, destruction, and control stuff to make it further in the game. I try to hold off until I have a decent amount to play in 1 turn with some protection. From there I build. Having indestructible and shroud usually gets you in a great place to build your forces.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
*The Queen shakes her head ruefully* I've had similar stuff told to me in the past. IMHO slivers stand at a disadvantage regarding other tribes. They're too powerful to go casual - even a list where your every nonland card consists of slivers (a clunky and inefficient plan, really) is going to pound the rest of the table into submission. And they're too underpowered to stand toe to toe with other tribes in a competitive environment: the best goblin decks will absolutely steamroll us, not to mention allies or elves.
Oftentimes I like to joke about just how much the slivers resemble the Tyranids from 40k. The alien intelligence in command of that swarm always adapts to overcome threats, and so should we. Just in the same way the 'nids would deploy xenomorph-like assassins to take out key enemy figureheads or straight-out subvert them by mind-controlling them, we will resort to non-sliver critters to do the jobs they can't - the none too kindly called thralls.
Danz's concept is a good starting point. You'll have to back up this strategy with countermeasures to neutralize threats that can evade those defenses (say, mass exile or tucking, effects that cause you to sacrifice permanents, and the occasional Ixidron).
Furthermore, I think it is good to revisit a solid piece of wisdom, courtesy of Raging Levine:
Regrettably, for us servants of the Hive, merely having three or more slivers in play automatically qualifies as 'doing something nuts'. That presents us with a conundrum - we need to have our spawn on the board to win.
My answer to this is to hold on to them and field them as responses. You're going to need as many flash-giving things in play as you possibly can to do it. Quick Sliver is, of course, a given; Vedalken Orrery and Winding Canyons will also perform well.
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
My experience with such strategies has not been a good one. It repeatedly happens to me that whenever I have two or more slivers in play everyone stops and looks carefully at what I'm doing, even if they were durdling around before that. You try and pursue that plan, better be prepared to defend your plays or, worse still, to become de facto Archenemy.
I've found that mana stones usually are more fragile than lands. My current strategy heavily hinges on having few nonpermanent spells, so my list is brimming with them regardless. Now, about not using countermagic - I can hardly fault your reasoning, though I have my misgivings (see previous comment). Furthermore, stuff like Paradox Engine will more often than not earn a first-class ticket to the graveyard the moment they land, which means you'll profit from such staples only by deploying them simultaneously - and that requires, of course, mana by the truckload, which means they'll be dead weights in your hands up until that point.
Your picks are all good, so it's really hard for me to point out stuff I'd ditch. I will at least say that unless you have ways to protect it, you won't profit much from Rhystic Study. It's an absolute pain in the ass, and it will draw a lot of attention your way.
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
I also play far less slivers. My only non-sliver creature is Kozilek because he stops mill strategies and is a nasty thing to drop in a game. OG Ulamog can work as well.
I also run Day of Judgment over Wrath since I have regeneration. I also like Tooth and Nail better than Chord, but both are solid cards.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
I used the "Great Devourer" list but modified it a bit and would love to talk about my choices, and moreso, hear your thoughts on my choices. I will post the list later, i dont have acces to it right now as i am trapped in a boring class in school.
What really brought me to create a profile here is the following question:
Any thoughts on Biomancer's Familiar from the new set? Worth an include? Should it replace Training Grounds or compliment it? What slot should it replace if we include it?
Probably a decent include, but I'd probably run it in addition to Training Grounds. Training Grounds is so good that a second copy at 1 green mana more would be welcome.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
My thoughts exactly.
As promised here is my list.
Hivemind:
Sliver Overlord
Tyranid Swarm (31):
Galerider Sliver - Flying for U is nice, but i am considering removing both this guy and Winged Sliver for some higher value cards
Winged Sliver
Quick sliver - MVP when the deck goes of, must have.
Diffusion Sliver - This guy is also close to being swapped out, but it might simply be that i don't notice spells NOT targeting my Slivers. On the fence
Victual Sliver - Can turn sweepers into life gain, but seems a little janky? also in danger of being swapped. Not proactive enough.
Crypt Sliver - MVP, must have
Heart Sliver - MVP, must have
Crystalline Sliver - MVP, must have
Muscle Sliver - Close to swapping, but sometimes bodies are just nice to have on the board. On the fence
Sinew Sliver - If i cut muscle i will cut this guy too. Thinking of Ward Sliver and the coinflip Sliver to replace them maybe?
Hibernation Sliver - Possibly the single most useful Sliver in my eyes. Won many games on this guy.
Predatory Sliver - Same as muscle and sinew
Gemhide Sliver - MVP, must have
Manaweft Sliver - MVP, must have
Syphon Sliver - MVP, must have
Opaline Sliver - Nice value when its ability goes off, it rarely does though. I guess the deterrent factor is usefull? in doubt if this is proactive enough
Necrotic Sliver - MVP, must have
Harmonic Sliver - Up there with Hibernation Sliver. Massive MVP
Dormant Sliver - Massive value! Huge MVP
Telekinetic Sliver - A whole board of Maze of Iths? Yes please!
Bonescythe Sliver - Saved my ass in an epic fight against a Stax deck. Love the guy
Shifting Sliver - Awesome Finisher
Essence Sliver - Stacks with Syphon Sliver, very useful!
Root Sliver - Compliments Cavern of Souls. Highly useful in the right matchup.
Pulmonic Sliver - Flying is nice, but the graveyard shenanigans is where it really shines. Even then, i wonder if its too slow?
Sliver Queen - I took out the combo since i never got it off. she is good value on her own, but i wonder if we can find more value in another card? Then again, her and Legion on the same board is a severe threat. Thoughts?
Might Sliver - Might swap. Same thoughts as Muscle Sliver and Sinew Sliver
Brood Sliver - Baits removal instantly in my playgroup, so that's useful.
Synapse Sliver - Good value
Sliver Hivelord - Indestructible slivers? Yes please!
Sliver Legion - Win con in itself. Won me many games.
Genestealer Cult (12):
Amoeboid Changeling - Only once did this guy help me out. Considering swapping
Eternal Witness - Good value, deck needs the graveyard recursion. Does solid work, especially together with Sun Titan & Skullclamp
Yavimaya Elder - Part of the draw and ramp package, solid card, Skullclamp target.
Purphoros, God of the Forge - Even without the Sliver Queen combo he just lies there and pings. Ping ping ping. And then a Living Death resolves and everybody dies. MVP
Academy Rector - Wonderfull card, i either get Omniscience or Journey to Eternity depending on gamestate. Solid card.
Oracle of Mul Daya - Crazy card together with exploration. Great ramp!
Karametra, God of Harvests - Just sits there and ramps. Ramp ramp ramp. Love it.
Seedborn Muse - This list often comes down to "did you draw or tutor muse? You win. Did you not? You lose!" Maybe i fail to see all the lines of play possible?
Acidic Slime - Such a nice card.
Sun Titan - Again a fantastic card. Nice synergies with Journey and Eternal witness. All around value generator.
Rune-Scarred Demon - Demonic Tutor on a stick. Nuff said.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth - Easily ramped into with Coffers and Itlimoc and whatever else ramp, good way of recurring your graveyard too. I don't see myself not running him.
Cult Leader:
Vivien Reid - Slots right in. Love this card. Her ult won me a couple games.
Sacred relics of the Adeptus Mechanicus stolen by the cult (9):
Skullclamp - Love this card, and this deck has several good targets. Even the not so good targets can just be recurred if you really need the draw.
Chromatic Lantern - Mana fixing like no other.
Darksteel Ingot - Target for Harmonic Slivers ability.
Sol Ring - Duh.
Vanquisher's Banner - The draw is nuts! MVP, must have.
Sword of Feast and Famine - Fills the same role as Seedborn Muse. Stoneforge Mystic could raise my winrate by fetching it. Can grab the clamp too. I really want a Stoneforge Mystic.
Burnished Hart - Unsure on this guy. Feel like other more powerful cards could fill the slot.
Solemn Simulacrum - This guy however is always nice to draw.
Crucible of Worlds - Needed for fetchlands in the yard.
Instants (2):
Vampiric Tutor - Tutoring at opponents endstep is nice.
Cyclonic Rift - Such a classic.
Sorceries (3):
Primal Surge - Combos with Omniscience. Such fun.
Merciless Eviction - One of the best sweepers in the format.
Living Death - Great yard recursion/sweeper
Enchantments (6):
Omniscience - Feels cheesy to get it on turn 5 with Academy Rector.
Exploration - Ramp ramp ramp
Into the Wilds - Ramp ramp ramp
Journey to Eternity - Slots right in. if it ends in the yard, bring it back with Sun Titan. Trigger it with Necrotic. Wear opponent out with endless value. MVP, must have
Growing Rites of Itlimoc - Fits right in. When i get my Cradle i think i will leave it in. Wonderful card.
Phyrexian Arena - Classic, fits right in.
Mana (26):
10x Fetches
2x OG duals
5x GRN shocklands
1x Mountain
1x Island
2x Forest
1x Plain
1x Swamp
1x Gemstone Mine
1x Command Tower
1x Ancient Ziggurat
Utility Lands (9):
Buried Ruin - Unsure about this guy, point is to get Crucible and Sword back, but often a dead draw. Maybe Muldrotha instead?
Sliver Hive - Nice fixing, the rare token, and flavour. Not bad but not insane either. Keeping it mostly for flavour.
Cavern of Souls - Very good in certain matchups.
Exotic orchard - This guy i just put in because multiplayer. Probably gonna swap.
Cabal Coffers - Commander tax needs paying? The cabal's got your back!
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth - Coffers needs this guy.
Strip Mine - Feelbad card for my opponent, feel good card for me.
Maze of Ith - love this guy
Volrath's Stronghold - The flavour is strong, but i feel its a bit slow. Unsure what to sub with though, and the flavour IS nice.
Maybe pile:
Distant Melody - Good draw. This deck can use the draw often i feel. But sometimes hard to get value out of this guy. What would be better draw?
Loxodon Warhammer - Lifelink is nice, trample is nice. But maybe some other equipment is better?
Assassin's Trophy - I feel like it is good removal, but i also feel like the ramp you give to your opponents is not negligible
Profane Procession Repeatable removal that becomes mana fixing. Maybe too slow?
Cards i haven't got yet, but want in the deck:
The rest of the OG duals
5x RNA shocklands
Gaea's Cradle
Patriarch's Bidding
Training Grounds
Biomancer's Familiar
Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Stoneforge Mystic
Survival of the fittest
Would love to hear you guys thoughts on this!
I'm passionate about slivers to a point not matched by anything else in MtG. Hell, in my pantheon they're next to things like S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Mass Effect, the Tzimisce, and Puella Magi Madoka Magica.
This thread is the result of all your work and contributions. I'm merely the janitor that keeps everything tidy. Usually DanzBorin or Gref have more and better insights than I do, probably owing to their broader experience. I'm rather narrow-minded when it comes to Magic, and that's probably my main flaw here.
I tried doing this, experimented. The result: you gotta have flying. Not for offense, you got other things that will help you punch through. Not having flyers will hurt your defense a lot.
If people want to kill your slivers, they'll cough up the extra mana or let you have that extra card. I'd swap them out. Long story short: things that proc once in a while are a precious waste of slots.
Darkheart Sliver is much, much better, if only for the simple reason that you don't have to pay mana on top of saccing to activate it. Typical response for a boardwipe - you can't bounce them, then turn them into food.
Replace them all. Gonna ship something that beefs up your slivers, might as well go all the way and bring in Megantic Sliver.
*The Queen nods slowly in approval* I'll have to try this out.
I'll have to try this one out, too.
EDIT - props to you for the 40k references. I'll have to adapt the main decklist to copy your format. Loved it!
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
Ditch Crypt Sliver. Crystalline stops it from working. Use Sedge Sliver instead.
Flying slivers are a must.
Changeling isn't good. Once again, stopped from working by Crystalline. If you have Crystalline and Hivelord in play it's tough for them to deal with you.
I feel you have WAY too few lands. At least throw in the Battlebond duals until you can replace them.
Always have the Queen in your deck. The combo is pretty easy to set up and wins games. Plus she's a 7/7 that has a boatload of abilities with other slivers. Nothing to sneeze at.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
1 Sliver Overlord
Creatures:
1 Sliver Hivelord
1 Gemhide Sliver
1 Sliver Legion
1 Sentinel Sliver
1 Root Sliver
1 Syphon Sliver
1 Essence Sliver
1 Crystalline Sliver
1 Predatory Sliver
1 Two-Headed Sliver
1 Blur Sliver
1 Darkheart Sliver
1 Striking Sliver
1 Pulmonic Sliver
1 Might Sliver
1 Horned Sliver
1 Spinneret Sliver
1 Muscle Sliver
1 Leeching Sliver
1 Virulent Sliver
1 Quick Sliver
1 Acidic Sliver
1 Frenzy Sliver
1 Winged Sliver
1 Constricting Sliver
1 Plated Sliver
1 Venom Sliver
1 Necrotic Sliver
1 Reflex Sliver
1 Bonesplitter Sliver
1 Shifting Sliver
1 Toxin Sliver
1 Sliver Queen
1 Crypt Sliver
1 Heart Sliver
1 Manaweft Sliver
1 Bonescythe Sliver
1 Sinew Sliver
1 Galerider Sliver
1 Temple of Malady
1 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Silence
1 Temple of Triumph
1 Command Tower
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Watery Grave
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Temple of Deceit
1 Temple of Plenty
1 Temple of Malice
1 Blood Crypt
1 Temple Garden
1 Temple of Mystery
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple of Epiphany
1 Godless Shrine
1 Steam Vents
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Sliver Hive
1 Temple of Enlightenment
2 Island
3 Forest
3 Mountain
2 Plains
2 Swamp
Artifacts:
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Door of Destinies
1 Coat of Arms
1 Vanquisher's Banner
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Rhystic Study
1 Mana Echoes
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Spirit of Resistance
1 Descendant's Path
1 Aura Shards
1 Intruder Alarm
1 Training Grounds
1 Unnatural Selection
Sorceries:
1 Decree of Pain
1 Living Death
1 Necromantic Selection
1 Rolling Earthquake
1 Martial Coup
1 In Garruk's Wake
1 Damnation
1 Patriarch's Bidding
Instants:
1 Sudden Spoiling
1 Cyclonic Rift
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
Any reason it is not on the usefull cards list? Many high value slivers are power 2 or less. His casting cost equals the Overlords tutoring ability cost, except it is theoretically possible to cast the recruiter before your commander is in play. Could potentially be a way of fixing your early game, or is it too janky?
Recruiter is generally used in decks that can't tutor easily. In 5 color you have lots of tutors that are better. You could certainly try it out, but I think you will find better options.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
I'll be posting my deck in the next few days with a couple questions I hope some of you can answer for me.. It's not a typical sliver build but it's main point is still all about the slivers.. It's def a mid budget deck and a 6-7/10 on the competetive scale. I've had to make some changes to even allow my group to let me use the deck or atleast come in under the radar a tiny bit more. I hope it's still ok to post decks that aren't tournament tuned and win on turn 4 because that's not my deck.. It's a casual but deadly build in my small town meta and just overall fun to play.. So if that's cool I'll post my deck in the next few days for some advice
Certainly! I like seeing more laid back approaches. I generally don't play mine for infinite combo unless folks force me. There are so many fun ways to play with Slivers! Sadly people assume the worst when the Overlord is revealed as your commander.
I haven't updated mine since the days of BFZ. I probably need to give it a spit shine.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Speaking of Danz, he's definitely right. It's perfectly fine to play slivers just for fun - hell, back in the day EDH was kitchen table Magic, it all was like that. Then things got serious and everything escalated to the point we have that pesky COMPETITIVENESS thing to worry about in a format that can be broken six ways from Sunday.
My two cents - I believe the hatred slivers get is undeserved and exaggerated. Everyone panics whenever the Overlord is revealed but no one bats an eye at any one of the myriad stax commanders out there. Me, I'd much rather go against an ax crazy commander like, say, Kresh the Bloodbraided or any other deck that tries to bury me under a living tide of elves or goblins or what have you than having to put up with Grand Arbiter Augustin IV. To put it succinctly - when I sit down and pull my deck out, I want to play. I don't sit down to just watch someone not allowing anyone to play.
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG