@budget Chainer: I'd say Altar of Dementia is our most effective sac outlet. It's dirt-cheap to cast, free to activate at any time, and has an extremely beneficial reward for off-ing your guys. I'd say it's totally worth the investment, even in a budget deck.
@M14 cards: New Demon seems like a sure winner. At worst, it's a fixed Shriekmaw, and that's plenty good already.
Dark Prophecy also seems like a very nice problem to have. I am a little concerned that the extra life loss might add up a little too quickly sometimes, but not nearly enough to jam it into my deck.
@budget Chainer: I'd say Altar of Dementia is our most effective sac outlet. It's dirt-cheap to cast, free to activate at any time, and has an extremely beneficial reward for off-ing your guys. I'd say it's totally worth the investment, even in a budget deck.
I'm not big fan of mill effects. I suppose it's decent though if there's chainer on the battlefield. Milling yourself attracts gy hate and milling opponents feels more often just beneficial for them.
And talking about sac outlets, has anyone ran Viscera Seer?
I would like to advise some serious trepidation to the players who are so eager to replace Bone Shredder or Shriekmaw with the new Demon. Those cards are not good because they are a strong, recursive force with Chainer. They are good because they fill a serious need (early spot removal) whil maintaining extreme versatility AND can become recursively abusive with Chainer (in that order). Without early, good spot removal spells, this deck is at the mercy of the faster generals. While we already face a very tough match up against decks like Thada, Edric, and Maelstrom Wanderer, losing those few tools we have to slow them down and enable our eventual power to overcome them sounds very frightening to me. Obviously this is largely dependant upon individual metagames, but if you are facing fast decks, you need quick, cheap answers. If your meta is slow enough to warrant including a 5 mana, sorcery speed, Murder, it can be a decent engine, potentially taking out a creature a turn (or more given sac outlets and adequate mana). However, don't be too quick to dismiss what makes the cards you are replacing with it good.
milling opponents feels more often just beneficial for them.
I largely agree. The one time I really loved Altar was when my opponent had Oracle of Mul Daya out, so I got to fateseal at will
the price is inflated b/c it chooses the 'higher' mid prices when there are multiple printings, but if you grab the lower priced printings youre good to go.
Notice that we still keep our combo loop potential!
I also realized that salvaing station and Codex Shredder can replace XHD if need be, you just have to have 5 more mana.
Not that big of a deal, especially if you have out slumlord or pawn to use to sac dudes for mana.
Ill let yah know how games go tonight!
the price is inflated b/c it chooses the 'higher' mid prices when there are multiple printings, but if you grab the lower priced printings youre good to go.
Notice that we still keep our combo loop potential!
I also realized that salvaing station and Codex Shredder can replace XHD if need be, you just have to have 5 more mana.
Not that big of a deal, especially if you have out slumlord or pawn to use to sac dudes for mana.
Ill let yah know how games go tonight!
I think you mean dollars, not cents.
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I dont think we need both. Being able tp bring back skeleton EOT and in response to triggers is much stronger.
In a deck with stoneforge and trinketmage where getting skullclamp is much more reliable I might be more likely to run both.
I didn't realize there were two threads up for Chainer, I guess he's more popular than I had thought. So I'll just copy my post from the other thread.
It's been quite a while since I've paid any attention to these forums, unsure why. I decided I'd come along and make a thread seeing if I'm "missing" anything any ideas, or whatever (Or even to help out those that are unsure) I discovered this thread. While not reading the thread other than from when it was Nerco'd, (I know it's such a sin to post on a thread you haven't completely read yourself) but I'd figure I'd post my list since I was going to do it anyways.
Recently, I've had some pretty good luck with my Chainer list. It may possibly be the most fun list I've played with yet. So here he is.
A card that I didn't realize would be so nice until I saw it in a list in this forum is Phyrexian Altar I could probably include that.
The only inclusion from M14 that will make it's way in is, Rise of the Dark Realms. Not sure what will lose it's spot, if I'd have to guess it'd be Exsanguinate
Mindslicer I find it strange this doesn't see more play. You can essentially lock down the game with this dude and Chainer and he helps vs those decks that have a bazillion cards in hand due to X draw, Consecrated Sphinx backed by Reliquary Tower. He's probably in the top 5 most powerful and game swinging cards in the deck!
Cruel Tutor This guy is kind of on the fence right now. It's cheaper that Diabolic but it doesn't put it into hand. The reason I am currently choosing this is to help guarantee land drops (which I'll get into in a bit).
Otherwise, most cards are pretty straight forward.
Now, the thing you may notice that stands out are my lands as noted above. I recently removed 3 2 drop "rocks: in favor of Swamps to up my total and removed another card (Smokestack if you must know). I was having issues missing early land drops which is also why I run both Sign in Blood and Night's Whisper to help with that early game draw. I had found out that I am very slow in the early game and much of it was becasue I'm slow on dropping lands. So I simply up'd the land count by 4 from 38 to 42 to help ensure I'm hitting my land drops. I haven't lost since. I find that this deck really struggles vs massive land grab that green has but otherwise I can play a sick control game by tutoring for answers fairly easily.
I must note that our play group has really "toned down" the infinite mana/combos out of our decks so games can be more enjoyable and Chainer seems to be surviving rather well.
The most powerful cards while not including lands are in my opinion are as follows,
Kokusho, the Evening Star He was banned for a reason! I'll admit, after Sepulchral Primordial was printed he's not the auto number 1 tutor target anymore. Still, he was banned for a reason!
Cards that have surprisingly not held their weight in the list. Don't get me wrong, these are amazing cards but they simply get shuffled to the back of my hand more than other cards do.
Exsanguinate I find myself just simply doing other stuff. When I get mana I'd rather be activating Chainer more often than cast this. Yeah, it's a kill/lifegain but that's requires a ton of mana for it to be amazing and many times, I have better stuff to do if I'm not casting this for lethal.
Memory Jar I can't put my finger on it but the more and more I find this clogging my hand.. It's strange becasue it does what I want it to do in this deck. I draw cards, dump cards into GY for Chainer Fuel but it still just is....
Caged Sun This is fairly high cost and I'll probably never remove it but, 4 of 5 times it's I cast Sun, board meets sweep and I essentially lose a turn.
Gauntlet of Power Same as above but maybe not so drastic being 5 is loads different than 6 but still...
Cards that are able to be foiled, I have not acquired yet.
Yeah it seems bad. Maybe if there were a way to get a ton of swamps into play at once or something. We dont cast many spells we more of just recur dudes.
I'd run Beseech the queen or even diabolic intent over cruel tutor. Who cares if you have to reveal, 95% of the time youre getting cabal coffers or something youre going to immediately cast anyways.
Memory Jar is amazing. With sangromancer its youre way to gain stupid amounts of life.
I never really liked Sepulchral Primordial.
Im usually not concerned with my opponents creatures unless they are oracle of mul daya or Terastrodon. Or if i dont have XHD online and need a witness.
Now that I think of it, the Staff is just bad. It's only good if you drop it early, and even then it's not that good. I don't remember if I'm running Memory Jar, but I'll swap it in if I'm not.
Abhorrent Overlord
:5mana::symb::symb:
Creature — Demon Rare
Flying
When Abhorrent Overlord enters the battlefield, put a number of 1/1 black Harpy creature tokens with flying onto the battlefield equal to your devotion to black. (Each {:symb:} in the mana costs of permanents you control counts towards your devotion to black.)
At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice a creature.
Illus. Slawomir Maniak #75/249 6/6
Really considering this guy in Chainer. Thoughts?
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For those of you not playing Strands of Night, I highly suggest testing this card. I've won games I had no chance winning because of this reusable reanimate. Much cheaper to play than our general.
i think he has potential anywhere the real question you should be asking is what should i cut for Erebos, even though we haven't seen him spoiled thessa has and if the Demon is just a rare think what Erebos will do
i think he has potential anywhere the real question you should be asking is what should i cut for Erebos, even though we haven't seen him spoiled thessa has and if the Demon is just a rare think what Erebos will do
Good point! The anticipation is getting to be too much!
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I think its pretty similar with a lot of its card choices to the list in the OP, with some cards like Ad Nauseam-Tendrils that I wanted to try out.
However, I've been annoyed at how little utility some of the cards I'm playing when I'm not in a winning position, so I've decided I should just cut them.
Out: Ad Nauseam
It was really too hard to make this work without warping my deck around it. Some times it would go off spectacularly, but I needed about 50+ life, and about 80+ mana to make it work. To make things worse, it wasn't really realistic that I would be able to afford to pay so much life to draw cards when I wasn't comboing off that turn. Ill-Gotten Gains
Kind of a similar problem with Ad Nauseam, I only really wanted to play it when I was recurring tendrils of agony with enough storm to kill anyone who recurred disruption. Otherwise I didn't really like giving my opponents cards back, because it always felt really bad for me. Massacre Wurm
This is the card I'm least sure about, I've had it in the deck from the very first draft, and I've never been unhappy with it. I'm just kind of wondering if despite my being satisfied with it, there would be better options for its slot.
In: Innocent Blood
After losing some games where I felt like I never had enough mana to play the cards I had, I wanted to try playing another cheap removal spell. With some more playtesting, I might cut back a little on the number of removal spells if I feel like 7 is a few more than I want, but Blood is a card I've been considering for a while, and now seemed a good time to try it out. Reaper from the Abyss
I'm not too attached to Reaper, but I felt like I wanted another repeatable creature denial effect to go with the other stax cards, and he seemed an easy switch for the Wurm. (i.e. Same cost, same stats, etc.) Null Profusion
I'm not too sure about Null Profusion either, the cantrip on everything seems really strong, but there are a lot of cards that seem like they really benefit from playing them at the proper time, and Null profusion takes away from that because you kind of have to play every card you draw if you want to get anywhere.
So as you can see, I'm pretty confident with the cards I don't want to play with, but not so confident with their replacements.
Tendrils feels a bit unrealistic to actually win with, without Ad Nauseam, but for now I'm content with it as a gain 6-10 life spell, with the bonus of occasionally doing a lot more.
I like Infernal tribute, and there are a lot of times when its helped me a lot, but there are also a lot of times when any other sacrifice outlet would be better than it. It does give me a way to remove my own Necro/Null Profusion/Reuse Spine of Ish Sah.
I guess what my goal is for the deck is to make it so that it will make the games of EDH I play in a little bit less explosive, a little less flashy, and a little slower. I like explosive flashy plays, but I just don't like them being quite so much.
Massacre Wurm
This is the card I'm least sure about, I've had it in the deck from the very first draft, and I've never been unhappy with it. I'm just kind of wondering if despite my being satisfied with it, there would be better options for its slot.
Oh no, not Massacre Wurm! This guy is too much fun.
1) Living Death with Wurm can be a game winner...
2) With a Sac outlet, loop him with Chainer, to kill the bigger stuff...
3) Just casting him is great token control!
Gray Merchant of Asphodel 3BB
Creature — Zombie Common
When Gray Merchant of Asphodel enters the battlefield, each opponent loses X life, where X is your devotion to black. You gain life equal to the life lost this way. (Each {B} in the mana costs of permanents you control counts towards your devotion to black.)
Illus. Robbie Trevino 2/4
This card seems like it could be a reasonable substitute for Kokusho in budget decks–with just it and Chainer you're draining each opponent for 4 rather than 5, but seems reasonable.
Maybe it could also be good in decks already running Kokusho as a second copy of the black dragon.
This card seems like it could be a reasonable substitute for Kokusho in budget decks–with just it and Chainer you're draining each opponent for 4 rather than 5, but seems reasonable.
Maybe it could also be good in decks already running Kokusho as a second copy of the black dragon.
I think the same actually. What I like about it is the ETB instead of ETG trigger (hello Mimic Vat). You are guaranteed to get value out of it and it can get way out of hand late game. Another upside is its interaction with Graveborn Muse. There is also less risk of getting it cloned for a large life swing which can happen with Kokusho. I will definitely be testing this after the set is released.
@M14 cards: New Demon seems like a sure winner. At worst, it's a fixed Shriekmaw, and that's plenty good already.
Dark Prophecy also seems like a very nice problem to have. I am a little concerned that the extra life loss might add up a little too quickly sometimes, but not nearly enough to jam it into my deck.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
I'm not big fan of mill effects. I suppose it's decent though if there's chainer on the battlefield. Milling yourself attracts gy hate and milling opponents feels more often just beneficial for them.
And talking about sac outlets, has anyone ran Viscera Seer?
I largely agree. The one time I really loved Altar was when my opponent had Oracle of Mul Daya out, so I got to fateseal at will
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Terrain Generator
34 swamps
Spells
1 Armillary Sphere
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Bottomless Pit
1 Buried Alive
1 Caged Sun
1 Charcoal Diamond
1 Codex Shredder
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Demonic Collusion
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Dimir Machinations
1 Expedition Map
1 Exsanguinate
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Grim Discovery
1 Harrowing Journey
1 Imp's Mischief
1 Infernal Tribute
1 Life's Finale
1 Living Death
1 Memory Jar
1 Mind Stone
1 Mutilate
1 Necrogen Mists
1 Night's Whisper
1 Oppression
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Salvaging Station
1 Shred Memory
1 Sign in Blood
1 Star Compass
1 Syphon Mind
1 Trading Post
1 Underworld Connections
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Withering Boon
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Blood Artist
1 Blood Scrivener
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Butcher of Malakir
1 Chainer, Dementia Master
1 Crypt Ghast
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Falkenrath Noble
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Kagemaro, First to Suffer
1 Kuon, Ogre Ascendant
1 Mindslicer
1 Myojin of Night's Reach
1 Ogre Slumlord
1 Pawn of Ulamog
1 Pilgrim's Eye
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Sadistic Hypnotist
1 Sangromancer
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Withered Wretch
1 Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
http://deckstats.net/decks/5458/22822-jank-100-budget-chainer-edh
the price is inflated b/c it chooses the 'higher' mid prices when there are multiple printings, but if you grab the lower priced printings youre good to go.
Notice that we still keep our combo loop potential!
I also realized that salvaing station and Codex Shredder can replace XHD if need be, you just have to have 5 more mana.
Not that big of a deal, especially if you have out slumlord or pawn to use to sac dudes for mana.
Ill let yah know how games go tonight!
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Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
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I think you mean dollars, not cents.
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Tenacious Dead is more restrictive, since you can only pay the cost when he dies.
Hence why I called him "slightly needier."
Reassembling Skeleton is definitely better. I just can't decide whether it's worth playing both.
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It's probably not. I would stick with the Skeleton because Chainer is so mana hungry that you will have difficulty holding 2 mana up for the Dead.
I dont think we need both. Being able tp bring back skeleton EOT and in response to triggers is much stronger.
In a deck with stoneforge and trinketmage where getting skullclamp is much more reliable I might be more likely to run both.
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It's been quite a while since I've paid any attention to these forums, unsure why. I decided I'd come along and make a thread seeing if I'm "missing" anything any ideas, or whatever (Or even to help out those that are unsure) I discovered this thread. While not reading the thread other than from when it was Nerco'd, (I know it's such a sin to post on a thread you haven't completely read yourself) but I'd figure I'd post my list since I was going to do it anyways.
Recently, I've had some pretty good luck with my Chainer list. It may possibly be the most fun list I've played with yet. So here he is.
A card that I didn't realize would be so nice until I saw it in a list in this forum is Phyrexian Altar I could probably include that.
The only inclusion from M14 that will make it's way in is, Rise of the Dark Realms. Not sure what will lose it's spot, if I'd have to guess it'd be Exsanguinate
A few notes on possible odd cards,
Illusionist's Bracers This works very well with Chainer and is a cheaper per-activation investment than Rings of Brighthearth I also wanted to stay away from an combo-like cards. (Also why you don't see Geth's Grimoire and Words of Waste. Or even the "soft lock" of Reassembling Skeleton and Contamination.
Mindslicer I find it strange this doesn't see more play. You can essentially lock down the game with this dude and Chainer and he helps vs those decks that have a bazillion cards in hand due to X draw, Consecrated Sphinx backed by Reliquary Tower. He's probably in the top 5 most powerful and game swinging cards in the deck!
Cruel Tutor This guy is kind of on the fence right now. It's cheaper that Diabolic but it doesn't put it into hand. The reason I am currently choosing this is to help guarantee land drops (which I'll get into in a bit).
Otherwise, most cards are pretty straight forward.
Now, the thing you may notice that stands out are my lands as noted above. I recently removed 3 2 drop "rocks: in favor of Swamps to up my total and removed another card (Smokestack if you must know). I was having issues missing early land drops which is also why I run both Sign in Blood and Night's Whisper to help with that early game draw. I had found out that I am very slow in the early game and much of it was becasue I'm slow on dropping lands. So I simply up'd the land count by 4 from 38 to 42 to help ensure I'm hitting my land drops. I haven't lost since. I find that this deck really struggles vs massive land grab that green has but otherwise I can play a sick control game by tutoring for answers fairly easily.
I must note that our play group has really "toned down" the infinite mana/combos out of our decks so games can be more enjoyable and Chainer seems to be surviving rather well.
The most powerful cards while not including lands are in my opinion are as follows,
Altar of Dementia (best card in the deck bay far!)
Sepulchral Primordial (the only card that will contend with the Altar for top slot.)
Fleshbag Marauder / Slum Reaper These guys do so much work it's silly.
Mindslicer He's the best equalizer we've got!
Kokusho, the Evening Star He was banned for a reason! I'll admit, after Sepulchral Primordial was printed he's not the auto number 1 tutor target anymore. Still, he was banned for a reason!
Cards that have surprisingly not held their weight in the list. Don't get me wrong, these are amazing cards but they simply get shuffled to the back of my hand more than other cards do.
Diabolic Revelation Most of the time I Tutor for two cards, so maybe this should just simply be Diabolic Tutor?
Exsanguinate I find myself just simply doing other stuff. When I get mana I'd rather be activating Chainer more often than cast this. Yeah, it's a kill/lifegain but that's requires a ton of mana for it to be amazing and many times, I have better stuff to do if I'm not casting this for lethal.
Memory Jar I can't put my finger on it but the more and more I find this clogging my hand.. It's strange becasue it does what I want it to do in this deck. I draw cards, dump cards into GY for Chainer Fuel but it still just is....
Caged Sun This is fairly high cost and I'll probably never remove it but, 4 of 5 times it's I cast Sun, board meets sweep and I essentially lose a turn.
Gauntlet of Power Same as above but maybe not so drastic being 5 is loads different than 6 but still...
Cards that are able to be foiled, I have not acquired yet.
hatred
I will flay the skin from your flesh,
the flesh from your bones,
and scrape your bones dry,
and still you will not have suffered enough!
Quote the Ryxsyn;
NeVeRMoRe!
You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain!
-Harvey Dent
Also, why isn't this thread a primer yet? There are over 60 pages...
Yeah it seems bad. Maybe if there were a way to get a ton of swamps into play at once or something. We dont cast many spells we more of just recur dudes.
I'd run Beseech the queen or even diabolic intent over cruel tutor. Who cares if you have to reveal, 95% of the time youre getting cabal coffers or something youre going to immediately cast anyways.
Memory Jar is amazing. With sangromancer its youre way to gain stupid amounts of life.
I never really liked Sepulchral Primordial.
Im usually not concerned with my opponents creatures unless they are oracle of mul daya or Terastrodon. Or if i dont have XHD online and need a witness.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
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YBLB
Really considering this guy in Chainer. Thoughts?
I write EDH articles on EDHREC and MTGCasualPlay. I hope you like them!
EDH DECKLISTS
RGWUril, the Miststalker WBRKaalia of the Vast Sunforger WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUGDerevi, Empyrial TacticianWUBRGSliver Queen EDH
UB Wrexial, the Risen DeepWU Hanna, Ship's NavigatorWGSigarda, Host of Herons EnchantressWULavinia, of the Tenth
RRPurphoros, God of the ForgeBBChainer, Dementia MasterWWEight-and-a-Half TailsUUMuzzio, Visionary ArchitectGGJolrael, Empress of Beasts
BGVhati il-DalRWTajic, Blade of the LegionUBRZurgo HelmsmasherUBDaxos the ReturnedWBKarlov of the Ghost CouncilWUBruna, Light of Alabaster
RWAurelia Angel Tribal URJhoira Chaos Deck UGVorel +1 Counters BRGProssh Tokens
UBRGwendlyn Discard EDH URG Surrak Dragonclaw UBLazav Mill EDH WUBrago Flicker EDH Deck
i think he has potential anywhere the real question you should be asking is what should i cut for Erebos, even though we haven't seen him spoiled thessa has and if the Demon is just a rare think what Erebos will do
So it is auto-mulligan material (assuming a free mull with partial paris)??
Good point! The anticipation is getting to be too much!
I write EDH articles on EDHREC and MTGCasualPlay. I hope you like them!
EDH DECKLISTS
RGWUril, the Miststalker WBRKaalia of the Vast Sunforger WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUGDerevi, Empyrial TacticianWUBRGSliver Queen EDH
UB Wrexial, the Risen DeepWU Hanna, Ship's NavigatorWGSigarda, Host of Herons EnchantressWULavinia, of the Tenth
RRPurphoros, God of the ForgeBBChainer, Dementia MasterWWEight-and-a-Half TailsUUMuzzio, Visionary ArchitectGGJolrael, Empress of Beasts
BGVhati il-DalRWTajic, Blade of the LegionUBRZurgo HelmsmasherUBDaxos the ReturnedWBKarlov of the Ghost CouncilWUBruna, Light of Alabaster
RWAurelia Angel Tribal URJhoira Chaos Deck UGVorel +1 Counters BRGProssh Tokens
UBRGwendlyn Discard EDH URG Surrak Dragonclaw UBLazav Mill EDH WUBrago Flicker EDH Deck
1xChainer, Dementia Master
Artifact (13)
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Caged Sun
1 Doubling Cube
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Nim Deathmantle
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Smokestack
1 Sol Ring
1 Spawning Pit
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Trading Post
1 Worn Powerstone
Creature (20)
1 Blood Artist
1 Bloodghast
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Crypt Ghast
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Kuon, Ogre Ascendant
1 Massacre Wurm
1 Mindslicer
1 Myojin of Night's Reach
1 Pawn of Ulamog
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Sangromancer
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Slum Reaper
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
1 Contamination
1 Dark Prophecy
1 Infernal Tribute
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Arena
Instant (10)
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Corpse Dance
1 Dismember
1 Entomb
1 Murder
1 Necrologia
1 Shred Memory
1 Suffer the Past
1 Tendrils of Corruption
1 Tragic Slip
Sorcery (14)
1 Ancient Craving
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Decree of Pain
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Revelation
1 Exsanguinate
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Living Death
1 Mutilate
1 Night's Whisper
1 Sign in Blood
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Buried Ruin
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Deserted Temple
31 Swamp
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Thespian's Stage
I think its pretty similar with a lot of its card choices to the list in the OP, with some cards like Ad Nauseam-Tendrils that I wanted to try out.
However, I've been annoyed at how little utility some of the cards I'm playing when I'm not in a winning position, so I've decided I should just cut them.
Out:
Ad Nauseam
It was really too hard to make this work without warping my deck around it. Some times it would go off spectacularly, but I needed about 50+ life, and about 80+ mana to make it work. To make things worse, it wasn't really realistic that I would be able to afford to pay so much life to draw cards when I wasn't comboing off that turn.
Ill-Gotten Gains
Kind of a similar problem with Ad Nauseam, I only really wanted to play it when I was recurring tendrils of agony with enough storm to kill anyone who recurred disruption. Otherwise I didn't really like giving my opponents cards back, because it always felt really bad for me.
Massacre Wurm
This is the card I'm least sure about, I've had it in the deck from the very first draft, and I've never been unhappy with it. I'm just kind of wondering if despite my being satisfied with it, there would be better options for its slot.
In:
Innocent Blood
After losing some games where I felt like I never had enough mana to play the cards I had, I wanted to try playing another cheap removal spell. With some more playtesting, I might cut back a little on the number of removal spells if I feel like 7 is a few more than I want, but Blood is a card I've been considering for a while, and now seemed a good time to try it out.
Reaper from the Abyss
I'm not too attached to Reaper, but I felt like I wanted another repeatable creature denial effect to go with the other stax cards, and he seemed an easy switch for the Wurm. (i.e. Same cost, same stats, etc.)
Null Profusion
I'm not too sure about Null Profusion either, the cantrip on everything seems really strong, but there are a lot of cards that seem like they really benefit from playing them at the proper time, and Null profusion takes away from that because you kind of have to play every card you draw if you want to get anywhere.
So as you can see, I'm pretty confident with the cards I don't want to play with, but not so confident with their replacements.
Other cards that I'm considering for cutting are
Tendrils of Agony
Infernal Tribute
Tendrils feels a bit unrealistic to actually win with, without Ad Nauseam, but for now I'm content with it as a gain 6-10 life spell, with the bonus of occasionally doing a lot more.
I like Infernal tribute, and there are a lot of times when its helped me a lot, but there are also a lot of times when any other sacrifice outlet would be better than it. It does give me a way to remove my own Necro/Null Profusion/Reuse Spine of Ish Sah.
I guess what my goal is for the deck is to make it so that it will make the games of EDH I play in a little bit less explosive, a little less flashy, and a little slower. I like explosive flashy plays, but I just don't like them being quite so much.
Any thoughts or advice?
Oh no, not Massacre Wurm! This guy is too much fun.
1) Living Death with Wurm can be a game winner...
2) With a Sac outlet, loop him with Chainer, to kill the bigger stuff...
3) Just casting him is great token control!
Also... IMO: Massacre Wurm > Shadowborn Demon > Reaper from the Abyss. Meaning, if you are going to take out the Wurm, I would rather have Shadowborn than Reaper.
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EDH DECKLISTS
RGWUril, the Miststalker WBRKaalia of the Vast Sunforger WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUGDerevi, Empyrial TacticianWUBRGSliver Queen EDH
UB Wrexial, the Risen DeepWU Hanna, Ship's NavigatorWGSigarda, Host of Herons EnchantressWULavinia, of the Tenth
RRPurphoros, God of the ForgeBBChainer, Dementia MasterWWEight-and-a-Half TailsUUMuzzio, Visionary ArchitectGGJolrael, Empress of Beasts
BGVhati il-DalRWTajic, Blade of the LegionUBRZurgo HelmsmasherUBDaxos the ReturnedWBKarlov of the Ghost CouncilWUBruna, Light of Alabaster
RWAurelia Angel Tribal URJhoira Chaos Deck UGVorel +1 Counters BRGProssh Tokens
UBRGwendlyn Discard EDH URG Surrak Dragonclaw UBLazav Mill EDH WUBrago Flicker EDH Deck
Creature — Zombie Common
When Gray Merchant of Asphodel enters the battlefield, each opponent loses X life, where X is your devotion to black. You gain life equal to the life lost this way. (Each {B} in the mana costs of permanents you control counts towards your devotion to black.)
Illus. Robbie Trevino 2/4
This card seems like it could be a reasonable substitute for Kokusho in budget decks–with just it and Chainer you're draining each opponent for 4 rather than 5, but seems reasonable.
Maybe it could also be good in decks already running Kokusho as a second copy of the black dragon.
I think the same actually. What I like about it is the ETB instead of ETG trigger (hello Mimic Vat). You are guaranteed to get value out of it and it can get way out of hand late game. Another upside is its interaction with Graveborn Muse. There is also less risk of getting it cloned for a large life swing which can happen with Kokusho. I will definitely be testing this after the set is released.
Thoughts on Dark Ptophecy, whip of Erebus, colourless ramp creature, and grey merchant?
UBRBLACK ROSE COMMANDERUBR
WURGBTrades - Looking for ABU Duals, Fetches, Ect. Have Liliana otV, Snapcaster Mages, Chrod of Calling, Alters!WURGB
Commander
Omnath, Locus of Mana
GWBUR Genju of The Realms RUBWG