I hadn't checked back in a while since I thought you had stopped updating this. Thanks and good to see you're still running Scion. I had to disembowel mine because I have a limited card pool and it was monopolizing most of the best cards I had in each color but I'm thinking about putting it back together.
Edit: One think I noticed. Instead of Mnemonic Nexus what about Time Spiral? It's only 1 more mana to cost but it does the same thing, plus draws 7, plus it untaps lands.
Double Edit: I also love the addition of Scourge of Valkas to the deck. Hitting that off of a Living Death/Patriarch's Bidding is just hilarious.
Sorry to hear you took your Scion apart, you should put it back together!
That's a really old update, I can't remember why nexus was on the list.
I actually was going to pick up a Time Spiral, but I'm leaning toward using Petals of Insight instead (Spiral could definitely replace reversal one of these days though.). I need to do more play testing.
And, I already updated the list again. @.@
The ramp cards I was running became more and more irrelevant as my mana base became refined, and I've finally removed them. I also took out mudslide, I don't think it's good enough.
I added Leyline of Anticipation, Master Warcraft, and have an open slot. I'm hoping the next few sets bring something interesting.
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Have you considered Illusionist's Bracers? Might not be strong enough but could be fun with reanimation since with Scion's ability you can dump up to two dragons in the yard per activation.
Would also be good with any firebreather's, gets nasty real fast with Dragon Tyrant. Would also let you copy both Niv's abilites.
Also have you ever tested Two-Headed Dragon, he can be hard to block and can be pumped a lot with less red mana.
I have maybe one suggestion for a combo you could put in.
It involves having Scourge of Valkas and Bladewing the Risen on the battlefield.
If you cast a Clone targetting bladewing you can create infinite ETB triggers with the new legend rule, killing everybody with Scourge.
Hiya~
I run a very much tamed down scion deck. You are ever so right when you claim that he can draw you too much attention. I don't run very many degenerate combos, but if you are still running that Patriarchs Bidding over Living Death, do consider Greater Good.
Yeah, Scion is a completely different animal in multiplayer. If you approach it like you would a 1v1 game you'll get hated out pretty quick lol. I run Living Death over Bidding because it is a way to Kill avacyn, I've also found that because I play less agresively in multiplayer I end up sitting on my general alot until I'm in a good position to kill someone; this means that by the time I have a good ammount of dragons in the graveyard people are usually dead.
My deck is mostly ramp and using the utility dragons as early to mid game presence (since most are a threat already), while I just hide Scion on the corner of the table like he doesnt exist. Many many games I have pulled out of nowhere simply by messing around with that enchantment. If you run Karrthus, then everything that just came back also has haste.
I love Karrthus, he's such a good dragon. I'm just too scared to play him with things like Mimic Vat running rampant, not to mention the new legend rule.
Have you considered Illusionist's Bracers? Might not be strong enough but could be fun with reanimation since with Scion's ability you can dump up to two dragons in the yard per activation.
Would also be good with any firebreather's, gets nasty real fast with Dragon Tyrant. Would also let you copy both Niv's abilites.
Also have you ever tested Two-Headed Dragon, he can be hard to block and can be pumped a lot with less red mana.
I like bracers, but I try to limit cards that are for the most part only worth playing with my general, it reduces the number of dead cards I draw. Two-Headed dragon is pretty cool, right now I am using Stromtide Leviathan, Magus of the Moat, and Yosei, the Morning Star to protect myself.
I have maybe one suggestion for a combo you could put in.
It involves having Scourge of Valkas and Bladewing the Risen on the battlefield.
If you cast a Clone targetting bladewing you can create infinite ETB triggers with the new legend rule, killing everybody with Scourge.
This is really badass, ty!!!!! I'm going to see if I can't move stuff arround and try this out.
I've been lurking in this thread for a while, comparing notes with my approach and the approach of others' (except hermit-druid, I can't afford that business). I'm ready to reveal my prototype as it has been hardened by battle a few times and obvious adjustments have been made. I like what you're getting, I utilize many of the same cards, but also use others you do not. Anyway, I'm ready for some >$10 per card suggestions.
I posted the cards I'm using while I take time to look through any trade binders I come across, but below are listed my intended swaps:
-Forbidden Alchemy for Tainted Pact, at which point, i'd likely drop more of my draw spells and keep my draw engines.
-Glimpse the Future for Buried Alive
-My familiar/Warden of Evos Isle/Dragonspeaker Shaman package for a better system, likely involving Amulet of Vigor and Prismatic Omen and what-have-you. The familiar actually help(ed) with the wealth of tri-color dragons I started with, so I'm sort of looking for a better facet that doesn't rule out casting from my hand with ease. I'm still exploring the deck, these provide me an ample crutch (as 'worse choice' spells tend to be based on cmc) to survive in my sometimes ruthless meta.
A couple of notes:
+Belbe's Portal churns dudes out of my hand but serves mostly as an early game defense as well as a political pawn, usually someone wastes their removal on the dragon or the artifact if it's a threat, saving my uncasted general. I'm sort of on the fence about it, because it's fun to have; I'd replace it with Kaalia of the Vast.
+On the note of Dreams of the Dead, recurring Gisela, Blade of Goldnight on the fly has saved me from massive damage AND helped me connect for double. It's a good answer to GY hate as well.
I've been lurking in this thread for a while, comparing notes with my approach and the approach of others' (except hermit-druid, I can't afford that business). I'm ready to reveal my prototype as it has been hardened by battle a few times and obvious adjustments have been made. I like what you're getting, I utilize many of the same cards, but also use others you do not. Anyway, I'm ready for some >$10 per card suggestions.
Hi there.
It's hard to give advice about five color decks because there are so many things you can do.
I could tell you this or that is a good card, or that I like something better, but that doesn't necessarily make it so.
That being said: the way you build Scion depend on how you play it.
My deck uses Scion like a death cannon, and is filled with ways to make him one shot people.
I generally only play him when I feel I can kill someone, and if at all possible late game after someone over-reaches.
This gives me an excuse to kill someone and mitigates some of the hate received from doing so.
My deck is not first and foremost a combo deck, I have a Sharuum deck that does that.
Currently these are some of the cards I use to maximixe damage:
Boros Charm
I love this card, it usually comes as a surprise and doubles as protection. 4 Crucible of Fire
This one is more subtle, it wont win you the game by itself, but it means you need less fire-breathing to kill someone. 4 Rafiq of the Many
Deadly with Skythirix 5 Savage Beating
Entwined this card is amazing, I would almost go so far as to say every Scion deck should play this card. 5 Gratuitous Violence
Similar to Gisela, harder to blow up.
Other than that I would sugest adding card draw that lets you shuffle dragons back into your deck. Time Reversal is such a great card: Draw, disruption, graveyard hate, and recycling all in one card.
Counterspells are also great for keeping your general alive, and stoping other players' win conditions. I know you are looking for budget cards, but if there was one Scion card that I would suggest spending a little extra one it would be Pact of Negation. It works so well with Scion, as it ensures he isn't destroyed mid combat when you are tapped out from fire-breathing, and protects him from tuck spells.
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Your missing the best one turn kill with scion. You first swing at someone, stack his ability twice in response to each other. You search for Moltensteel Dragon, pump him with Phyrexian mana to a 10/4. You use the other search ability and pull out Skittles and then proceed to kill someone in one hit.
I've thought about pumping skythirix like that but you're at such a disadvantage if scion gets killed as you've now just lost not one but 2 dragons.
I also dislike molten steel by itself and try to limit dragons that I don't want to draw.
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If combo should die before I wake I'll slide a Smokestack in every deck I play, roll in every shop wreck the Spirit of EDH.
Update: Streamlined the deck, it plays better than ever.
I know I've said this before, but I think it's pretty much done until they print better cards. Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker might end up getting cut someday because he's just so expensive.
I also would really like to remove one of each basic for enemy fetch lands someday should they ever reprint them.
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If combo should die before I wake I'll slide a Smokestack in every deck I play, roll in every shop wreck the Spirit of EDH.
So, I thought it appropriate that my thousandth post be here.
The Commander Primer Committee has graciously honored this decklist with a primer tag.
It has been such a long journey, but my goal of making Scion information more readily available has finally been realized.
Thank you again to anyone who has contributed to this deck!!!
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If combo should die before I wake I'll slide a Smokestack in every deck I play, roll in every shop wreck the Spirit of EDH.
Reasoning:Thran Foundry can be used both as recycling and graveyard hate. It's low costs also makes it relatively easy to pop after combing out with Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind, making me less vulnerable to yard hate than I would have been had I waited a turn to drop Time Spiral.
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In my usual condescending manner: WTF Y YOU TAKE OUT THE RELIC. SOOOOOO OP.
Anyway. Good pull, and good sick find. I'll have to keep that card in mind for protecting my Glacial Chasm in that Bant land deck of mine everyone seems to hate. So sad all of our discussions about your deck were IRL, instead of on a forum.
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Brief description:
---Primary------Secondary W Midrange----Control U Control------Tempo B Aggro--------Necromancy R Aggro--------Reach G Midrange-----Ramp
In my usual condescending manner: WTF Y YOU TAKE OUT THE RELIC. SOOOOOO OP.
Anyway. Good pull, and good sick find. I'll have to keep that card in mind for protecting my Glacial Chasm in that Bant land deck of mine everyone seems to hate. So sad all of our discussions about your deck were IRL, instead of on a forum.
Yeah, about that; going back and making a change list for the primer after 3 years was a pain lol. It probably would have been way helpful if we had.
So what do you think about Swan Song for Slave of Bolas? Its really flavorful and can be a win on against things like Kresh, but I've felt like I'm lacking instant speed removal lately. And, after looking at my decks this is the one I play the least in.
(Sorry for no card tags, dorm internet is down and I'm on my phone.)
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Countering the clutch 70 damage fling is huge. It's great against the control guys. I have a problem with that card not killing artifacts and creatures. But then again, artifacts and creatures die a lot in our group. Probably even more now that you switched your artifact deck back to sharuum and now that Eric joined us. He has artifacts hanging out of his
But it gives them a flier....
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Brief description:
---Primary------Secondary W Midrange----Control U Control------Tempo B Aggro--------Necromancy R Aggro--------Reach G Midrange-----Ramp
Countering the clutch 70 damage fling is huge. It's great against the control guys. I have a problem with that card not killing artifacts and creatures. But then again, artifacts and creatures die a lot in our group. Probably even more now that you switched your artifact deck back to sharuum and now that Eric joined us. He has artifacts hanging out of his
But it gives them a flier....
Who the heck is Eric?
Yeah, the flier kind of bugs me but I'm not sure what other counter I'd use. Fire-breathing is freaking expensive, but I'm fairly certain I could keep some blue mana open.
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Eric us that guy with the huuuuuge beard we hungout with out in Selah. Anyway.
Counters that cheap are weak and few. Besides you already play the really good ones anyone really wants to pay for. Maybe redirecting, idk...but that's not great unless it costs red mana. Screw the government, ban noncreature, nonartifacts.
How about, well.... Hmmmm. You have good removal aplenty, so you could play counters that don't hit permanents. I do...sorta.... Well... No I don't, but the idea is what counts.
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Brief description:
---Primary------Secondary W Midrange----Control U Control------Tempo B Aggro--------Necromancy R Aggro--------Reach G Midrange-----Ramp
Mana Drain would be perfect, but that's like saying Olivia Wilde would be perfect. Maybe I should just add Swan Song and see how it goes. I do play Bower Passage and Sun Quan. And, its not really significant if I am countering their removal in response to me attacking or am comboing out.
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Reasoning: While it is a flavorful form of removal that doubles as a wincon, Slave of Bolas is expensive and only sorcery speed.
I need another cheap counter to protect Scion and stop my opponents from winning the game.
Additional Thoughts: Scroll Rack:
I really feel like I should be playing this card. I would like to cut an artifact for it, but I don't know which one. Lightning Greaves are amazing but they interfere with Ophidian Eye and Bear Umbra, so maybe that is a good choice.
This would also probably give me room to cut Foresee and add another instant speed removal card; if I did this what would be a good choice?
Rest in Peace:
It is really bothering me that I am not playing Rest in Peace, I may cut Sorin Markov for it. At first I hated this card when they printed it because of how it interacted with Scion.
But, the more I think about it: If I have turned Scion into a dragon someone is either dead or something has gone wrong. In other words, when I play the deck I am not continuously exhausting my resources, and it is not of great consequence if a few of them get exiled. Additionally, this is not a card I would slap down like a Torpor Orb at the beginning of the game, but something I would use to answer reanimation decks. (This is something scion is very vulnerable to that we just don't see much of in our meta).
In fact, the only reason I have not already added it is that I am low on haste dragons and get hit harder if Hellkite Overlord is exiled.
This brings me to my next thought:
Rorix Bladewing:
One of the weaknesses of this deck is that Hellkite Overlord is currently the only non-infect dragon with haste.
Haste equipment is great, but it is nowhere near as powerful as the ability to tutor Scion haste at instant speed.
It is hard for me to consider Rorix Bladewing because it is nothing but a beater, but then after thinking about it I realized that Hellkite Overlord is essentially just a beater as well.
If I was to cut a dragon it would be Yosei, the Morning Star because in this deck he is a do nothing punishment card that gives my opponents control of the outcome.
I generally dislike "answers" that are preemptive rather than reactionary anyway.
Scroll rack is REALLY strong in this deck. I feel it performs the role of Forsee much better. I believe Scroll Rack is mandatory in Scion lists. Idk how I hadn't thought of suggesting it.
Sorin does cost triple black which may be difficult to cast, but hey, you play win conditions really late anyway. We are discussing increasing dragon redundancy also so that's a plus. Not to mention the non-dragon redundancy you can tutor for/draw then play. Loosing a non-dragon card for a card which MAY bite you latter but will definitely help you now and later balances out rather nicely.
Swapping Yosei for Rorix gives you a wiggle room to use Hellkite Overlord for it's regeneration ability and still retain a dragon with haste too. In that way, you kinda still have that protection from removal looming above.
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Brief description:
---Primary------Secondary W Midrange----Control U Control------Tempo B Aggro--------Necromancy R Aggro--------Reach G Midrange-----Ramp
Sounds about right.
What do you think about giving greaves the axe given they disrupt Boros Charm, Ophidian Eye, and Rite of Replication?
It's hard for me to really say how consistently this is a problem, but I will say that it happens often enough for me to have considered cutting them several times.
They are also less necessary now that I have leyline, profit, and am considering adding Rorix.
I have also been hoping to add another instant speed removal spell for consistency.
I am leaning towards either Putrefy or Mortify, but there may be better options.
The greaves are pretty awesome, but maybe they are on the way out. Now that I think about it, Boros Charm fills that slot of protecting from targeting pretty well.
About the removal, you have +1 destruction of artifacts and +1 counter spell for enchantments. Do you keep a notebook log of what you needed and didn't need throughout games you play?
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Brief description:
---Primary------Secondary W Midrange----Control U Control------Tempo B Aggro--------Necromancy R Aggro--------Reach G Midrange-----Ramp
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Sorry to hear you took your Scion apart, you should put it back together!
That's a really old update, I can't remember why nexus was on the list.
I actually was going to pick up a Time Spiral, but I'm leaning toward using Petals of Insight instead (Spiral could definitely replace reversal one of these days though.). I need to do more play testing.
And, I already updated the list again. @.@
The ramp cards I was running became more and more irrelevant as my mana base became refined, and I've finally removed them. I also took out mudslide, I don't think it's good enough.
I added Leyline of Anticipation, Master Warcraft, and have an open slot. I'm hoping the next few sets bring something interesting.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
Would also be good with any firebreather's, gets nasty real fast with Dragon Tyrant. Would also let you copy both Niv's abilites.
Also have you ever tested Two-Headed Dragon, he can be hard to block and can be pumped a lot with less red mana.
RGW Rith, the Awakener
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
UBR Nicol Bolas
GWU Treva, the Renewer
RWU Numot, the Devastator
Thats pretty funny, it's a dragon version of the Sharuum the Hegemon combo
RGW Rith, the Awakener
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
UBR Nicol Bolas
GWU Treva, the Renewer
RWU Numot, the Devastator
Yeah, Scion is a completely different animal in multiplayer. If you approach it like you would a 1v1 game you'll get hated out pretty quick lol. I run Living Death over Bidding because it is a way to Kill avacyn, I've also found that because I play less agresively in multiplayer I end up sitting on my general alot until I'm in a good position to kill someone; this means that by the time I have a good ammount of dragons in the graveyard people are usually dead.
I love Karrthus, he's such a good dragon. I'm just too scared to play him with things like Mimic Vat running rampant, not to mention the new legend rule.
Tyvm
I like bracers, but I try to limit cards that are for the most part only worth playing with my general, it reduces the number of dead cards I draw. Two-Headed dragon is pretty cool, right now I am using Stromtide Leviathan, Magus of the Moat, and Yosei, the Morning Star to protect myself.
This is really badass, ty!!!!! I'm going to see if I can't move stuff arround and try this out.
My list here needs to be updated, but if you guys are interested in my most recent list you can find it here:
http://www.mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/ViewDeck/195265
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
I've been lurking in this thread for a while, comparing notes with my approach and the approach of others' (except hermit-druid, I can't afford that business). I'm ready to reveal my prototype as it has been hardened by battle a few times and obvious adjustments have been made. I like what you're getting, I utilize many of the same cards, but also use others you do not. Anyway, I'm ready for some >$10 per card suggestions.
0 paradise mantle
1 elixir of immortality
2 lightning greaves
2 swiftfoot boots
3 chromatic lantern
5 belbe's portal
Three Color
6 oros, the avenger
6 teneb, the harvester
6 vorosh, the hunter
6 dromar, the banisher
6 numot, the devastator
8 nicol bolas
8 nicol bolas, planeswalker
Two Color
2 manamorphose
3x gaze of granite
4 plasm capture
4 jarad's orders
4 evil twin
4 notion thief
5 vraska, the unseen
5 obzedat's aid
5 urban evolution
7 bladewing the risen
7 gisela, blade of goldnight
2 sunscape familiar
3 spirit of resistance
4 breath of life
6 terminus
Black
2 nightscape familiar
2 exhume
2 demonic tutor
4 unburial rites
5 patriarch's bidding
5 living death
5 skithiryx, the blight dragon
Green
1 Abundant Growth
1 Birds of Paradise
2 Thornscape Familiar
2 Farseek
2 Bower Passage
3 Rites of Flourishing
4 Shard Convergence
5 Soul's Majesty
Blue
2 Stormscape Familiar
3 Windfall
3 Glimpse the Future
3 Rhystic Study
3 Forbidden Alchemy
3 Warden of Evos Isle
3 Crackling Counterpart
4 Dreams of the Dead
5 Devastation Tide
2 thunderscape familiar
3 seething song
3 fervor
3 dragonspeaker shaman
4 seize the day
5 scourge of valkas
6 hellkite tyrant
7 balefire dragon
8 utvara hellkite
10 dragon tyrant
38 lands, still in the works
I posted the cards I'm using while I take time to look through any trade binders I come across, but below are listed my intended swaps:
-Forbidden Alchemy for Tainted Pact, at which point, i'd likely drop more of my draw spells and keep my draw engines.
-Glimpse the Future for Buried Alive
-My familiar/Warden of Evos Isle/Dragonspeaker Shaman package for a better system, likely involving Amulet of Vigor and Prismatic Omen and what-have-you. The familiar actually help(ed) with the wealth of tri-color dragons I started with, so I'm sort of looking for a better facet that doesn't rule out casting from my hand with ease. I'm still exploring the deck, these provide me an ample crutch (as 'worse choice' spells tend to be based on cmc) to survive in my sometimes ruthless meta.
A couple of notes:
+Belbe's Portal churns dudes out of my hand but serves mostly as an early game defense as well as a political pawn, usually someone wastes their removal on the dragon or the artifact if it's a threat, saving my uncasted general. I'm sort of on the fence about it, because it's fun to have; I'd replace it with Kaalia of the Vast.
+Jarad's Orders: Bladewing the Risen in the hand, answer to whatever the threat is in the GY. Gisela, Blade of Goldnight is easier to reanimate, and I can place Bladewing the Risen or a mana-friend into my hand too
+We've already covered Clone-ing Bladewing the Risen with Scourge of Valkas on the board. This can be done (more efficiently IMO) with Evil Twin, Crackling Counterpart, and Dreams of the Dead.
+On the note of Dreams of the Dead, recurring Gisela, Blade of Goldnight on the fly has saved me from massive damage AND helped me connect for double. It's a good answer to GY hate as well.
Hi there.
It's hard to give advice about five color decks because there are so many things you can do.
I could tell you this or that is a good card, or that I like something better, but that doesn't necessarily make it so.
That being said: the way you build Scion depend on how you play it.
My deck uses Scion like a death cannon, and is filled with ways to make him one shot people.
I generally only play him when I feel I can kill someone, and if at all possible late game after someone over-reaches.
This gives me an excuse to kill someone and mitigates some of the hate received from doing so.
My deck is not first and foremost a combo deck, I have a Sharuum deck that does that.
Currently these are some of the cards I use to maximixe damage:
Boros Charm
I love this card, it usually comes as a surprise and doubles as protection.
4 Crucible of Fire
This one is more subtle, it wont win you the game by itself, but it means you need less fire-breathing to kill someone.
4 Rafiq of the Many
Deadly with Skythirix
5 Savage Beating
Entwined this card is amazing, I would almost go so far as to say every Scion deck should play this card.
5 Gratuitous Violence
Similar to Gisela, harder to blow up.
Other than that I would sugest adding card draw that lets you shuffle dragons back into your deck. Time Reversal is such a great card: Draw, disruption, graveyard hate, and recycling all in one card.
Counterspells are also great for keeping your general alive, and stoping other players' win conditions. I know you are looking for budget cards, but if there was one Scion card that I would suggest spending a little extra one it would be Pact of Negation. It works so well with Scion, as it ensures he isn't destroyed mid combat when you are tapped out from fire-breathing, and protects him from tuck spells.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
I also dislike molten steel by itself and try to limit dragons that I don't want to draw.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
+Sneak Attack
-Ponder
+Foresee
-Utvara Hellkite
+Prophet of Kruphix
-Void Slime
+Praetor's Grasp
-Relic of Progenitus
+Chrome Mox
-Elixir of Immortality
+Fist of Suns
-Plains
+Volrath's Stronghold
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
I know I've said this before, but I think it's pretty much done until they print better cards.
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker might end up getting cut someday because he's just so expensive.
I also would really like to remove one of each basic for enemy fetch lands someday should they ever reprint them.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
The Commander Primer Committee has graciously honored this decklist with a primer tag.
It has been such a long journey, but my goal of making Scion information more readily available has finally been realized.
Thank you again to anyone who has contributed to this deck!!!
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
+Thran Foundry
Reasoning: Thran Foundry can be used both as recycling and graveyard hate. It's low costs also makes it relatively easy to pop after combing out with Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind, making me less vulnerable to yard hate than I would have been had I waited a turn to drop Time Spiral.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
Anyway. Good pull, and good sick find. I'll have to keep that card in mind for protecting my Glacial Chasm in that Bant land deck of mine everyone seems to hate. So sad all of our discussions about your deck were IRL, instead of on a forum.
Brief description:
W Midrange----Control
U Control------Tempo
B Aggro--------Necromancy
R Aggro--------Reach
G Midrange-----Ramp
Yeah, about that; going back and making a change list for the primer after 3 years was a pain lol. It probably would have been way helpful if we had.
So what do you think about Swan Song for Slave of Bolas? Its really flavorful and can be a win on against things like Kresh, but I've felt like I'm lacking instant speed removal lately. And, after looking at my decks this is the one I play the least in.
(Sorry for no card tags, dorm internet is down and I'm on my phone.)
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
But it gives them a flier....
Brief description:
W Midrange----Control
U Control------Tempo
B Aggro--------Necromancy
R Aggro--------Reach
G Midrange-----Ramp
Who the heck is Eric?
Yeah, the flier kind of bugs me but I'm not sure what other counter I'd use. Fire-breathing is freaking expensive, but I'm fairly certain I could keep some blue mana open.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
Counters that cheap are weak and few. Besides you already play the really good ones anyone really wants to pay for. Maybe redirecting, idk...but that's not great unless it costs red mana. Screw the government, ban noncreature, nonartifacts.
How about, well.... Hmmmm. You have good removal aplenty, so you could play counters that don't hit permanents. I do...sorta.... Well... No I don't, but the idea is what counts.
Brief description:
W Midrange----Control
U Control------Tempo
B Aggro--------Necromancy
R Aggro--------Reach
G Midrange-----Ramp
Mana Drain would be perfect, but that's like saying Olivia Wilde would be perfect. Maybe I should just add Swan Song and see how it goes. I do play Bower Passage and Sun Quan. And, its not really significant if I am countering their removal in response to me attacking or am comboing out.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
Brief description:
W Midrange----Control
U Control------Tempo
B Aggro--------Necromancy
R Aggro--------Reach
G Midrange-----Ramp
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
+Swan Song
Reasoning: While it is a flavorful form of removal that doubles as a wincon, Slave of Bolas is expensive and only sorcery speed.
I need another cheap counter to protect Scion and stop my opponents from winning the game.
Additional Thoughts:
Scroll Rack:
I really feel like I should be playing this card. I would like to cut an artifact for it, but I don't know which one.
Lightning Greaves are amazing but they interfere with Ophidian Eye and Bear Umbra, so maybe that is a good choice.
This would also probably give me room to cut Foresee and add another instant speed removal card; if I did this what would be a good choice?
Rest in Peace:
It is really bothering me that I am not playing Rest in Peace, I may cut Sorin Markov for it. At first I hated this card when they printed it because of how it interacted with Scion.
But, the more I think about it: If I have turned Scion into a dragon someone is either dead or something has gone wrong. In other words, when I play the deck I am not continuously exhausting my resources, and it is not of great consequence if a few of them get exiled. Additionally, this is not a card I would slap down like a Torpor Orb at the beginning of the game, but something I would use to answer reanimation decks. (This is something scion is very vulnerable to that we just don't see much of in our meta).
In fact, the only reason I have not already added it is that I am low on haste dragons and get hit harder if Hellkite Overlord is exiled.
This brings me to my next thought:
Rorix Bladewing:
One of the weaknesses of this deck is that Hellkite Overlord is currently the only non-infect dragon with haste.
Haste equipment is great, but it is nowhere near as powerful as the ability to tutor Scion haste at instant speed.
Generally, I avoid playing dragons with less than 6 power because they make it that much harder to hit the damage threshold.
This leaves us with three plausible choices: Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund, Brimstone Dragon, and Rorix Bladewing.
Brimstone Dragon is automatically eliminated because it is a more expensive version of Rorix Bladewing, and Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund is just too dangerous against reanimation.
It is hard for me to consider Rorix Bladewing because it is nothing but a beater, but then after thinking about it I realized that Hellkite Overlord is essentially just a beater as well.
If I was to cut a dragon it would be Yosei, the Morning Star because in this deck he is a do nothing punishment card that gives my opponents control of the outcome.
I generally dislike "answers" that are preemptive rather than reactionary anyway.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
Sorin does cost triple black which may be difficult to cast, but hey, you play win conditions really late anyway. We are discussing increasing dragon redundancy also so that's a plus. Not to mention the non-dragon redundancy you can tutor for/draw then play. Loosing a non-dragon card for a card which MAY bite you latter but will definitely help you now and later balances out rather nicely.
Swapping Yosei for Rorix gives you a wiggle room to use Hellkite Overlord for it's regeneration ability and still retain a dragon with haste too. In that way, you kinda still have that protection from removal looming above.
Brief description:
W Midrange----Control
U Control------Tempo
B Aggro--------Necromancy
R Aggro--------Reach
G Midrange-----Ramp
What do you think about giving greaves the axe given they disrupt Boros Charm, Ophidian Eye, and Rite of Replication?
It's hard for me to really say how consistently this is a problem, but I will say that it happens often enough for me to have considered cutting them several times.
They are also less necessary now that I have leyline, profit, and am considering adding Rorix.
I have also been hoping to add another instant speed removal spell for consistency.
I am leaning towards either Putrefy or Mortify, but there may be better options.
I guess the most logical way to present the proposed changes is:
Scroll Rack for Foresee
Rorix Bladewing for Yosei, the Morning Star
Rest in Peace for Lightning Greaves
X instant removal spell for Sorin Markov
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
About the removal, you have +1 destruction of artifacts and +1 counter spell for enchantments. Do you keep a notebook log of what you needed and didn't need throughout games you play?
Brief description:
W Midrange----Control
U Control------Tempo
B Aggro--------Necromancy
R Aggro--------Reach
G Midrange-----Ramp