Notes:
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For Combo info see guide bellow. Any questions or feedback would be awesome.
Why Play Scion the Ur-Dragon in Multiplayer Commander?
5 Color Awesomeness
Scion decks have access to every spell in the game. Having an answer for just about everything.
Scion can do anything!
He can destroy permanents, he can protect himself, he can make tokens, he can reanimate,
he can draw you cards, he can send an opponent's kill spell right back at them,
he can make someone discard their entire hand, and with Conspiracy he can do just about anything left over. It's a Dragon!
If you like big creatures it’s hard to beat a deck that can tutor them into play for 2 mana! Scion is more fun to play against Multiplayer
1 on 1 Scion can be extremely frustrating to play against because it's just so good.
There are obviously decks that can beat it, but there are a lot that can't compete well.
Why Not to Play Scion the Ur-Dragon as a Multiplayer General:
You don't like being a target.
With great power comes...death sadly. You don't like having a steep curve
Having a steep curve goes hand in hand with playing a lot of dragons. You don't like complex mana bases.
5 color mana bases require a lot of tuning to be optimal.
This deck is the result of several years of rigorous play testing and constant card changes. It began as an effort to compete with my friends' decks which were already developed and well-tuned. This is not just my first commander deck, but for all intents and purposes my first magic deck. As such, it was very difficult for me to build. To complete this deck I had overcome dozens of challenges, pertaining but not limited to: building a competitive five color mana base, playing with an outrageous curve, surviving in a multiplayer environment with an extremely aggressive general, as well as being able to win without my general.
When I started building this deck information was scarce. Almost every deck list I found was for 1v1, and the ones that weren't focused on reanimation. The goal of this thread is to spare the reader some of the headaches I encountered building this deck, and provide a forum for communication about deck ideas. Thank you for reading.
Frequently Asked Questions
Why don't you play X dragon?
There are many great dragons that just don't work very well with Scion.
Dragons with ETB abilities are generally not great here because dragons do not enter the battlefield with Scion's ability.
Why don't you play more reanimation?
I just never liked the idea of building Scion that way.
I feel that reanimation builds leave you very vulnerable to yard hate and cause you to over extend.
Why are you playing X dragon? It doesn't seem very good.
I've found it is important to have a few dragons that aren't immediately threatening. The last thing people are generally worried about is the guy sitting in the corner with Intet, the Dreamer. I'm also a sucker for flavorful creatures and creative mechanics.
How do you play a deck with such a steep curve?
It is important to remember that there are many dragons in this deck that I will almost never cast, as they are in the deck specifically to be used with Scion's ability. That being said, I play a fair amount of rocks and cards that let me avoid paying spells for their CMC.
Why don't you play X wincon?
I feel that the wincons we choose for our decks are very personal things. In a way they define our decks and make a statement about ourselves. I view a wincon as a summary of what we feel commander should be.
Notable Exclusions
Conspiracy: Conspiracy is fun, but is also slow and clunky. While powerful, Eldrazi Scion doesn't kill anyone without other damage multipliers on the board. With Rafiq out you can one-shot someone, but otherwise you generally need two enchantments to get him to the damage threshold. This really makes it a 4 card combo to be optimal (Scion, Conspiracy, and 2 multipliers). If your meta doesn't play mass enchantment removal and you want to tutor up all the pieces go for it, but there are easier and more efficient options. It is outclassed by Savage Beating, Time Stretch, Knowledge Exploitation, Ophidian Eye/Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind, and Rite of Replication/Scourge of Valkas.
Nicol Bolas: I removed this card from my list a long time ago because it made me a huge target and was a political nightmare. While great in dual commander, I've found dumping a single players hand to be surprisingly underwhelming in a multiplayer setting. Also, his CMC is very high, and he was just one more dragon I didn't want to draw.
Tainted Strike: Tainted Strike is one of the best voltron cards ever made. It makes any creature in your deck lethal provided you can boost it to 9 damage with enchantments and/or fire-breathing. I don't play this card in multiplayer because I think the negative political aspects associated with it would outweigh the advantage it provides. This card says "No, actually you're dead," and while I think it's a perfectly legitimate strategy I'm sure that after playing it a few times people would start mad-dogging my general from the beginning of the game (If they aren't already).
Justin Bieber: He is just so terrible. He offers little to no synergy with the deck and is not really even a magic card. I really don't think he belongs in any Scion deck.
Change Log
Disclaimer: I was originally very bad at keeping track of changes.
I've also had some very bad Ideas during my Scion journey.
As a result, some log changes may be missing and/or ridiculous.
2011 Additions
These changes date back to before I joined the site.
As such, there is no record of changes prior to 2012.
2012 Additions
08-18-2012, 11:02 AM
-Teneb, the Harvester
-Vorosh, the Hunter
-Fist of Suns
-3 Unknown
+Mana-Charged Dragon
+Moonveil Dragon
+Urza's Incubator
+Avacyn, Angel of Hope
+Cauldron Dance
+Rite of Replication
09-02-2012, 02:09 PM
-Twisted Justice
-Joiner Adept
-Coalition Relic
-Asceticism
-Pillar of the Paruns
+Bant Charm
+Chromatic Lantern
+Fabricate
+Sterling Grove
+Transguild Promenade
09-02-2012, 11:28 PM
-Karn Liberated
+Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
09-13-2012, 11:09 PM
-2 Unknown
-Jace, the Mind Sculptor
+Gratuitous Violence
+Intet, the Dreamer
+Sylvan Library
09-18-2012, 02:12 PM
-Conspiracy
+Unknown
11-26-2012, 02:33 AM
-Inquisitor's Flail
-Ajani, Caller of the Pride
-Cruel Ultimatum
+Final Judgement
+Frost Titan
+Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
12-21-2012, 10:05 AM
-Voidslime
+Increasing Savagery
2013 Additions
01-29-2013, 06:54 AM
-Demonic Tutor
-Liliana Vess
-Oracle of Mul Daya
-Yosei, the Morning Star
-Living Death
-Ajani Vengeant
-Sever the Bloodline
+Drift of Phantasms
+Explosive Vegetation
+Harsh Mercy
+Patriarch's Bidding
+Sarkhan Vol
+Vraska the Unseen
+Balefire Dragon
02-03-2013, 08:06 AM
-Drift of Phantasms
-Angelic Skirmisher
-Harsh Mercy
-Patriarch's Bidding
-Sarkhan Vol
-Vraska the Unseen
+Liliana Vess
+Iona, Shield of Emeria
+Living Death
+Return to Dust
+Gideon Jura
+Slave of Bolas
02-13-2013, 02:34 AM
-Liliana Vess
-Gideon Jura
-Wild Ricochet
-Wall of Denial
-Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
+Supply // Demand
+Vraska the Unseen
+Sorin Markov
+Maelstrom Wanderer
+Sever the Bloodline
-Dromar, the Banisher
-Jund Charm
-Warp World
-Increasing Ambition
-Dream Cache
-Elixir of Immortality
-Liliana Vess
+Kokusho, the Evening Star
+Plasm Capture
+Rite of Replication
+Demonic Collusion
+Scroll Rack
+Mnemonic Nexus
+Pact of Negation
08-08-2013, 10:52 AM
-2 Unknown
+Magus of the Moat
+Mudslide
08-08-2013, 10:52 AM
-Mudslide
+Leyline of Anticipation
10-10-2013, 09:59 PM
-Plains
-Lightmine Field
-Ponder
-Void Slime
-Utvara Hellkite
-Relic of Progenitus
-Elixir of Immortality
+Sneak Attack
+Foresee
+Prophet of Kruphix
+Praetor's Grasp
+Chrome Mox
+Fist of Suns
+Volrath's Stronghold
Reasoning:Thran Foundry can be used both as recycling and graveyard hate. It's low costs also makes it relatively easy to pop after combing out with Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind, making me less vulnerable to yard hate than I would have been had I waited a turn to drop Time Spiral.
Reasoning: While it is a flavorful form of removal that doubles as a wincon, Slave of Bolas is expensive and only sorcery speed.
I need another cheap counter to protect Scion and stop my opponents from winning the game.
Reasoning: Scroll Rack is really awesome in this deck, especially since our general shuffles our library. It will be even more so if they ever reprint my enemy fetch lands.
Reasoning: The deck was low on haste dragons; Rorix is not the most ideal option (I wish there was another haste dragon with fire-breathing.) but it seems to be the best available at this time.
Reasoning: Lightning Greaves interfered with Boros Charm, Ophidian Eye, and Rite of Replication. Rest in Peace is just amazing (I know, am a complete hypocrite for raging about this card when it was printed). It stops reanimation from abusing our yard. It disrupts every general that uses the graveyard as a resource as well as combo generals that abuse death triggers like Sharuum the Hegemon and Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter. I believe it is more than worth the inevitable loss of a few dragons over the course of a game.
Reasoning: Sorin is good in voltron, but situationally so. Chaos Warp is an answer to Blood Moon, and can be used to protect me from other generals that are aggressive.
Reasoning: This card has been cut and added about a dozen times. It's drawbacks are that it's very vulnerable and obviously does not protect me from fliers. I suppose I had a Moat the slot would remain filled. I am adding him again to help protect me from aggro decks.
Reasoning: Slayer's Stronghold is one of those cards that looks much better on paper than it actually is. Ancient Tomb provides acceleration and helps me keep up with other decks.
Reasoning: Hatred makes every dragon in my deck lethal. It doesn't matter if I have doublers out or fixing for fire-breathing. It doesn't matter if I've had rotten luck and have a garbage hand. If I can swing and connect with Scion I can blow a chunk of life to kill someone.
I am thinking about cutting Crucible of Fire for In the Web of War.
I think the addition of haste outweighs the power loss and the additional mana is well worth it.
I am also thinking about cutting True Conviciton for Finest Hour.
My reasoning is kind of complicated, but I will attempt to explain.
So what inspired this change?
Fist and foremost, True Conviction does not stack with my other double strike sources, the most notable being dragon tyrant. At first glance this is not a huge deal, because redundancy is important. The thing is my other DS sources have things going for them that conviction does not.
How is Boros Charm any better? Boros Charm, for example, is only RW mana. That is absolutely huge when considering how expensive fire-breathing is. And, it doubles as protection. Conversely, conviction costs 3WWW, which is outrageously expensive for what it does for the deck. We don't play a lot of creatures at once, and the lifelink doesn't help us kill people faster.
What about Rafiq then?
The great thing about Rafiq of the Many is his exalted triger; when stacked with his double strike bonus it makes Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon just big enough to kill someone.
Ok, so why Finest Hour over True Conviction?
For True Conviction to kill someone it generally has to be played with another damage multiplier: Savage Beating, Gratuitous Violence, Aurelia, the Warleader, whatever. Best case scenario I play it the turn before Scion, cast scion the next turn either flashing it in or giving it hexproof, and then swing the following turn pumping 3 mana into Hellkite Overlord. Very inefficient and time consuming to say the least.
Finest Hour on the other hand makes both Dragon Tyrant and Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon able to one shot someone without any other doublers or fire-breathing. It is just a much better card for what we want to do.
The Five-Color Conundrum
One of the hardest things about building a five-color deck is getting the mana right. I would highly recomend investing in Shock Lands, and if money is not an issue I would recommend purchasing Dual Lands as they can't be beaten. What makes these lands so great is that they count for the land types that produce their respective mana. Steam Vents, which taps for both U and R, is classified as a Island Mountain and may be fetched by anything that can fetch a island or a mountain. Fetch Lands like Verdant Catacombs and ramp cards like Skyshroud Claim are amazing with these cards because they can search your deck for them and put them into play.
More on Dual Lands:
Dual Lands were originally printed in Alpha and were so popular that they were extended to revised.
Quote from Ben Bleiweiss »
You are looking at the ten best deck-building tools in all of Magic, finishing in the number two slot of this list. There have been no other cards ever printed which have so universally allowed people to play the decks they wanted than these ten Alpha Dual Lands. (Author's note: Volcanic Island was accidentally left off the printer's sheet and was not printed until Beta. I know there is no such thing as an Alpha Volcanic Island. There was supposed to be, so live with me calling it part of this cycle. Thanks!) They are painless. They can be fetched with Mirage and Onslaught fetch lands, Land Grant, and Tithe. They allow you to basically play any combination of colors without having to much worry about mana problems. They are strictly better than basic lands — they can produce two colors of mana at no drawback! These were granted a special exception to the first Extended rotation, which is a testament to how popular and essential they were felt to be.
Unfortunately, Dual Lands were inadvertently caught up in the Chronicles fiasco and ended up on Wizards' Reserved List, a list of cards which will never be reprinted.
Quote from Chas Andres »
Chronicles completely crashed the secondary market for singles. Prior to that set's release Legends stalwarts like Carrion Ants and Dakkon Blackblade were briskly selling between $25 and $35. Not only did Chronicles flood the market with thousands of new copies the rarity level on many Legends rares was lowered to uncommon. The reserved list was Wizards' apology to everyone who lost hundreds of dollars in perceived value thanks to Chronicles.
Since Dual Lands have not been printed since they are extremely expensive and sought after by collectors.
Comtemplating Karoo
The Karoo Lands from the original Ravnica block are some of the best lands ever to be printed.
They may come into play tapped, but they give you something Shocks and Duals can't: card advantage.
When you play a Karoo, you are first required to return a land from the battlefield to your hand. Many new players see this as something absolutely terrible and will immediately disregard them. However, after closer inspection we see Karoos tap for two mana, negating this penalty. The real secret though, is that you get to replay the land you returned to your hand. That land you returned is just one more land you don't have to draw to hit your land drops.
Unfortunately, there are drawbacks to Karoos, especially in a five color deck.
Playing a full set can be very slow as a significant percentage of your lands come into play tapped. Bad Scenario: you play a tap land, bounce it with a Karoo, and play another tap land the following turn. Worst Scenario: Sylvan Primordial.
The problem with Karoos more specific to our deck, is that we can use too many of them. Playing an entire cycle of Karoo lands makes it much more likely that you will have to discard early in the game. There is also the possibility that you will only draw Karoos in your opening hand and mulligans, forcing you to scoop.
Tapped Out: How my Graypelt Refuge Lost the Game
As stated earlier, drawing too many tapped lands can be a big problem. Occasionally, it will even lose you games because you couldn't get your spells off fast enough. An efficient five-color deck needs a large percentage of its lands to come into play untapped.
Fetches, Shocks, and Pain lands: Masochism at its Finest Pain Lands are another potentially useful cycle of lands which come into play untapped and provide fixing. These lands either tap for 1, or deal one damage to you and tap for one of two different colors of mana. When used conservatively the damage taken from Pain lands is largely insignificant. Problems arise when the entire cycle is used with Shocks and Fetches. It is very possible to effectively kill yourself in pursuit of an optimal mana base.
Trapped in a Three Color Wedge: Playing Too Many Two-Colored Lands
While two-color lands are very helpful, playing twenty or more of them can backfire. Occasionally you become trapped in a "Three Color Wedge," a combination of lands which produce the same three colors of mana.
For example, there is Grixis which is comprised of UBR. If you are running one of these ten card cycles (Shocks, Duals, Pain Lands, Karoos, ect), three of them tap for Grixis. Once more, each additional cycle you add increases the number of cards that correspond to any given wedge by three. So, if you decided to run four whole cycles you would have twelve cards which tapped for mana in each wedge. This can result in you being locked out of two colors, and is why lands that tap for larger combinations of mana are necessary.
Murmuring Bosk, Tri-Lands, and Vivids Murmuring Bosk is a Forest that taps for green and gives you the option of tapping for W or B at the cost of one damage. As it is a forest, it can be fetched like the Shocks and Duals, and if you happen to have a Treefolk it comes into play untapped. Similarly, the Tri-Lands from the Alara block; these lands may not be as easy to fetch, but they tap for an entire wedge for free.
From the Lorwyn block we have the Vivid Lands, which come into play tapped with two charge counters on them. Each of these lands taps for its given color of mana and or a mana of your choice when a charge counter is removed. After the counters are removed the lands continue to tap for their respective mana.
Five-Color Lands: The Best Fixing Around
Finally, there are five-color lands like Forbidden Orchardwhich tap for any color of mana. These lands usually have some requirement to use them, but provide the essential fixing needed to cast a five-colored general in a timely manner.
Mana Utility and Ramp
Mana Rocks and Prisms
Mana Rocks are essential for most commander decks; they help you compete against mass land destruction and provide needed execration. There are very few decks that would not be better with a Sol Ring. Obviously, in Scion decks it is also important to have mana rocks that produce mana of any color. Some of them are expensive, but there are many cheap alternatives like Fellwar Stone and Darksteel Ingot.
Additionally, Mana Prisms have been around since Celestial Prism was printed in alpha and work much like prisms in real life. If you have ever held up a prism to the sun you know that they produce an effect similar to that of a rainbow. Mana Prisms in magic take mana from your mana pool, then bend and refract it into a multicolor mana. Most of these cards aren't really optimal to run, but Crystal Quarry is a great form of filtering.
Cromatic Lantern is an amazing spin on the prism card, and should be in every five-color commander deck. Power creep has given us a card that filers not one, but all of our lands for a single expenditure of 3. That's right, rather than requiring mana to be spent for refraction, Cromatic Lantern simply costs 3 and even produces a mana of any color whenever you tap it. Talk about having your cake and eating it too.
Land Type Prismatic Omen and Joiner Adept go a step further than prisms by altering your lands' basic land types. Perfecting a five color mana base can be a tedious and expensive ordeal, and these cards are great to play when you first start building your deck because they widen your margin for error. If your mana base is suboptimal or you fetch the wrong lands these cards will pull you through.
Ramp: Playing Green? Why not Sylvan Primordial?
Ramp can be very helpful for new Scion Players because it lets them compensate for a heavy curve and imperfected mana bases. Cards like Skyshroud Claim and Ranger's Path that let you search for forests preform very well with Shock Lands, and provide much needed fixing. That being said, while playing a few ramp cards may be helpful, I don't advocate making Scion into a ramp deck. Playing a lot of ramp is good when it is synergistic with your deck, but when it's not it leads you to over-extend and lose to wrath affects.
Mana Creatures: Here Today, Gone Terminus
Mana creatures can be used to provide the fixing needed for your general, but they are slow because they are subject to summoning sickness and you have to wait a turn to use them. A much more frustrating problem with mana creatures is that they are inevitably Wrathed and you lose your all of your fixing.
Draw and Dragon Filtering
The Dragon Shuffle: Bouncing Unwanted Party Crashers
One problem with playing a Scion deck is that there are some dragons that you just don't want to draw. For example: there are very few situations where you would rather have Dragon Tyrant in your hand than in your deck, where he can be tutored into play to smash face. Unfortunately, to be competitive you are going to want to draw answers and threats throughout the game. The solution to this problem is to play cards like Foresee and Amass the Components which essentially prevent you from drawing too many dragons you don't want to cast. And, if you do draw dragons that you don't want in your hand, Time Reversal and Time Spiral allow you to shuffle them back in your deck. Scroll Rack is also an incredibly powerful tool that can be used in conjunction with shuffle effects to return dragons to your library.
Scion is downright vicious in a single player game. The lands you play are like sand in an hourglass, each representing one less turn your opponent has to draw a solution. Removal is usually useless unless it tucks or binds your general because you can simply recast it. If you get Lightning Greaves early on it's usually over.
Your Weaknesses
Control Decks
Tuck Cards
Board Wipe
Always declare Scion as an attacker before you use his ability.
Sometimes your opponent will jump the gun and you can choose to regenerate before you tap out for fire breathing. If you remember nothing else from this thread remember that.
Multiplayer
A Whole New Ball Game
One of my favorite cards is Death by Dragons. It is a favorite not so much for its playability, as it is for the art and flavor text on the card. The artwork depicts a helpless man surrounded by dragons and flavor text reads: "Suddenly, Eldo felt very alone." The quote is meant to be humorous as the card gives everyone a dragon except for the targeted player. It is however, somewhat ironic to a Scion player, as they will often feel that their dragon is very alone on the board.
Multiplayer is a completely different animal than single player with Scion; if you play scion as fast as possible you are going to lose. You can easily take out a player, you might even take out two in a row, but the third will kill you. In multiplayer Scion is almost an afterthought. While he's still a win condition, he's something you play like Insurrection, late in the game at a decisive moment.
Be Passive
The best way to play Scion is to let someone else be the aggressor if at all possible. Get a blocker out, something like Intet, the Dreamer, which is more or less harmless, is ideal. Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon is a great blocker because of his regeneration, but sometimes people you play against will filp out upon seeing any form of infect, so be careful.
Call Attention to Board State
If someone is about to swing, and you feel they are ignoring something potentially hazardous to the board say something. Saying "Don't forget board state man" is a perfectly legitimate strategy, and probably the most politically correct way to draw attention to someone else. I can't tell you how many times I used to sit through a game silently while someone focused on me, ignoring a fleet of tokens or a planeswalker. Don't play magic this way, help other people be better players by learning to assess threats. If people get offended that's their problem; it's not your fault if someone gets mad because you don't want to just hand them the game.
Play Politically
Ganging up on someone is a big offense in magic unless they are dominating the board or have already decided to team up against you. Similarly, people hate group hug and it's usually counterintuitive with Scion. That being said, there are little things you can do here and there that can improve everyone's position and inspire a certain level of camaraderie. For example, if someone is getting overwhelmed don't be afraid to eliminate the threat, chances are that once they are eliminated you're next.
Have Fun
Don't be that guy. While calling attention to board state is important, don't tell players how to play their turn, this is extremely rude. Telling someone information which hadn't occurred to him or her will not just get you a lot of hate during the game, it will piss off your friends. And, in all honesty, if you are going to make all the decisions for someone you might as well be playing solitaire.
Don't be over-competitive. Part of playing magic is having people answer threats, and if you are playing threats people will answer them. If you are getting upset because your plan didn't work out you are not only ruining the everyone's experience, you are drawing unwanted attention and setting yourself up to make play mistakes.
Sometimes you will get people who will focus on you every game for no reason. A lot of the time it is because Scion has a reputation, but sometimes someone will just decide they don't want you to win. Try not to take this personally, once they learn to gauge your deck they will relax. It should only take one game of people being trampled to death because they ignored board state to learn. If the problem persists you might want to find a new play group.
Getting There: 21 Damage
Double Strike and Double Damage
Double Strike is very important to Scion decks. Boosting Scion's Power to 21 is very difficult, but getting him to 11 is very feasible. The goal of every Scion deck should be to do as much damage as possible, as economically as possible, and as Double Strike doubles your damage output it is one of the best ways to achieve this. Duelist's Heritage and Rafiq of the Many are a great examples of double strike cards.
Additional Combat Phases and Turns
Cards that give additional combat phases and turns can be very economical as they give us something vital to victory: time. Magic is just a race against a clock (well, multiple clocks if you want to get technical), and these cards manipulate it in our favor. When you think about it, these cards are just like double strike, in that they are essentially doubling our damage output and decreasing the number of turns needed to kill someone. Savage Beating, Scourge of the Throne, and Time Stretch are good examples of these cards.
Getting Through: Protect Ya Neck
Preparing for the Worst
As Scion is such an efficient assassin, people will devote a decent amount of effort towards killing him, and inevitably succeed. As such, our goal is to maximize Scion's efficiency while he is on the battlefield and increase our chances of alpha-striking someone before he's killed.
Haste: In and Out
Haste is another essential aspect of a Scion deck; he is simply too slow and vulnerable without it. The best way to prepare for a kill with Scion is to set out a few enchantments and then swing with a hasted Scion. Lightning Greaves, Swiftfoor Boots, and Hellkite Overlord are examples of cards that give your general haste.
Hexproof and Shroud
Hexproof and shroud are probably Scion's strongest form of defense. They don't protect him from wraths, but they protect him from most forms of tuck (something that is far worst than having him killed). Depending on the competitiveness of your meta, hexproof and shroud make it a little safer to leave Scion out on the field for a turn rotation. Lightning Greaves, Swiftfoor Boots, Champion's Helm, and Asceticism are all good sources of hexproof and shroud.
Flash: So, You Guys are All Tapped Out?
Cards like Leyline of Anticipation and Prophet of Kruphix are great tools. They allow us to play Scion at any time, forcing our opponents to constantly keep mana open to deal with him. This also allows us to keep mana open and respond to threats before flashing Scion in at someone's end step.
Unblockability
It is very fortunate for Scion players that while flying is one of the most basic forms of evasion, very few people play many flying blockers. However, it will occasionally become a problem. Examples of cards that make Scion hard to block are: Bower Passage, Whispersilk Cloak, and Sun Quan, Lord of Wu.
Counterspells
While you are not playing control it is important to squeeze a counterspell or two in your deck. Counterspells are important because they give you the ability to stop your friend's game winning spell, and allow you to protect Scion. Pact of Negation is great because it can be payed for 0 in response to instant speed removal, allowing you to get through with damage. Plasm Capture is great because you can play it in response to a wrath and use the mana for fire-breathing next turn.
Cavern of Souls
Speaking of counterspells, Cavern of Souls is a great way to protect the dragons in your deck from them.
Indestructibility
I generally advise against using card slots for cards that provide indestructibility as indestructibility does not protect your general from being tucked. However, I support Boros Charm and Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Dragon Utility
Another way to protect Scion is by using his ability to turn him into something that can defend itself. Hellkite Overlord and Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon both provide Scion with the ability to regenerate himself. Additionally, Quicksilver Dragon can return a player's single target spell right back at their own creature.
Other Win Conditions
Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon: AKA Slim Shady
The great thing about infect damage, is that it still counts as general damage when dealt by your commander. This means that if something goes wrong and we are unable to connect with 10 infect, any infect damage dealt by Scion will still benefit us. In other words, it is not as if we have wasted our turn. Unfortunately, there is a lot of stigma and controversy surrounding the use of infect in commander, and you may get hated out of the game. If this doesn't phase you then throw on a Jason mask and grab your chainsaw; it's time to ruin someone's day. And, while you're at it grab Rafiq of the Many as he lets our pal Slim swing for lethal.
Conspiracy: The Eldrazi Yo-Yo
This combo uses Conspiracy's ability to change the type of creatures that are in your deck. It begins by playing Conspiracy and choosing the creature type dragon; Scion is now able to become any creature in your deck. There are a lot of fun things you could choose, but the eldrazi legends are arguably the most efficient choice because they shuffle back into your library as soon as they enter your graveyard. This means you can continue to use them, turn after turn, until someone disrupts the combo. Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre is nice because he's indestructible, and harder to get rid of.
Mass Polymorph: Token Shenanigans
While Mass Polymorph may not be the most efficient combo, it is undoubtedly the most fun. The combo works by using Rith, the Awakener to make a bunch of tokens, and casting Mass Polymorph to dump a bunch of dragons onto the battlefield. It is preferable to do this with Fires of Yavimaya in play, but if that is not an option our hope is that we will flip over a Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund. Be careful though, Karrthus can be dangerous if people are playing clones. This is a very fragile combo, but when it works it's beautiful. Flipping over an Avacyn, Angel of Hope in the midst of a large Mass Polymorph usually means you win the game.
Avacyn, Angel of Hope Avacyn, Angel of Hope is a power house, and if left unanswered she will run over anything in her path. Playing her with Empyrial Archangel creates a nearly impenetrable wall, and if you manage to give her shroud she's an absolute pain to remove.
Living Death: Should Have Remembered Rule #2 Living Death is a perfect card to use late game or after a wrathed Mass Polymorph. Some people shy away from this card because it reanimates your opponent's creatures, but it's important to remember that a great deal of your creatures have flying; speaking from my own personal experience, most people don't play enough creatures with flying or reach. This card is also really synergistic with the deck, as you can pitch dragons with Scion or Demonic Collusion to summon an army of zombie dragons!
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind: (Z->)90° - (E-N²W)90°t=1
This combo uses Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and Ophidian Eye to take out opponents by drawing cards. With Ophidian Eye, Niv-Mizzet is limited only by the number of cards in your library. This is a strong alternative to The Classic Scion Win in 1 v 1, and still can eliminate half the board in multiplayer. Just be careful not to deck yourself.
Time Stretch Time Stretch gives this deck just what it needs: more time. Time can dictate whether we swing for lethal damage or get killed. It can be the difference between getting a combo off and almost winning. Time Stretch gives us that extra push, and is even more powerful when fired off the back of a Maelstrom Archangel. Be careful; as Time Stretch targets, you are vulnerable to Wild Ricochet. If you have the cash, I recommend investing in a Pact of Negation.
Knowledge Exploitation: AKA Your Friend's Time Stretch Knowledge Exploitation is any sorcery in your opponents' decks whenever you need it. It's really an amazing card, and more people should play it.
Hellkite Charger Hellkite Charger brings another interesting combo to the table. If you activate its ability and connect with either a Sword of Feast and Famine or Bear Umbra, you can activate its ability again during the next combat phase with the lands you untapped, and continue attacking as long as you are able to connect for damage.
Worldgorger Dragon
The Worldgorger Dragon combo works by first entombing Worldgorger Dragon with Scion. Once she is in your graveyard you can then reanimate her with Animate Dead or Necromancy. The way this works is kind of complicated, so don't feel bad if you need to reread the explanation a few times.
As Worldgorger Dragon enters the battlefield it's effect triggers, exiling your reanimation enchantment. Additionally, when your reanimation enchantment is exiled its own effect triggers causing you to sacrifice Worldgorger. However, as Worldgorger leaves the battlefield, the second clause of it's ability triggers, and causes an infinite loop. You can use this combo along with cards like Piranha Marsh or Temple Bell to kill the table.
Scourge of Valkas
This is, in my opinion, the strongest Scion win condition outside of Hermit Druid. After using Rite of Replication, 6 Scourge of Valkas will see 5 dragons entering the battlefield simultaneously, and each do 6 damage for each of these instances. 6 X 5 X 6 = 180 Damage, Game Over.
Acknowledgements
Special thanks to Deadguydrew and anyone else who has contributed to this deck!!!
And to my friends, for all the hours they have helped me play-test.
It's nice, and I have been wanting to add Mana Severance or Trench Gorger.
My group aren't fans of combos like this though, at least some of them. People complain if I use Darksteel Plate lol.
Update: Removed the pain lands and added the Alara lands as well as 5 basics and Mana Severance. Going to play test and see if I don't get completely mana screwed.
I like Partriarch's Bidding because a lot of the time it would only bring my creatures back, but Living Death is nice because it offers removal and the people I play don't play that many flying creatures.
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Huge update.
I'm not going to go over everything I cut but I'll talk about the dragons.
Teneb, the Harvester and Vorosh, the Hunter are gone.
They are great cards, I just don't feel they work well with Scion.
Teneb is 5 mana for a reanimation spell that requires me to connect.
Vorosh is even worse as he is just a body the turn you use him.
Then, only if scion hasn't been killed after everyone has taken their turn you get the counters. That is my reasoning anyway.
-Fist of Suns
+Urza's Incubator
I think it will help me more in the long run.
+Mana-Charged Dragon
+Moonveil Dragon
Mana charged dragon comes with trample and lets me pay any color mana to pump it. Moonveil Dragon also has fire breathing and pumps other creatures as well.
+Avacyn, Angel of Hope
What can I say, I use Kaalia of the Vast and she prevents wrath.
Lands
I removed the basics and added just the pain lands which tap for red mana along with Grove of the Burnwillows.
Win conditions +Cauldron Dance
+Rite of Replication
Cauldron Dance is freaking awesome, it lets me bring back a hasted Nicol Bolas and then place Yosei, the Morning Star on the battlefield and sacrifice it.
I can also sacrifice Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre to shuffle my graveyard into my library to reuse dragons if need be.
Kokusho, the Evening Star has been added as place holder, but I will use him if he gets unbanned.
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Thank you! I was starting to wonder if anyone liked it lol.
I'll address each one of your comments and update the original post.
Mana Creatures: The downside to these is obviously that they get wrathed, however they can be very helpful early on.
I have been testing the mana base at MTGDeckbuilder and so far it has done pretty well.
However, I really need to finish assembling the deck and do some actual play testing to get a clearer picture.
Whispersilk Cloak
I've been on the fence about this one for a while, it's kind of expensive to equip the same turn you cast scion but it's just so good.
Aspect of Mongoose
I like that it comes back to you but I would rather add Whispersilk Cloak and a tutor or two to fetch one of the boots as they do more for me while in play.
Keiga, the Tide Star
Keiga is awesome but I dislike that it has to be killed.
I feel like if I'm going to sack Scion that Yosei, the Morning Star (or Kokusho, the Evening Star if unbanned) would benefit me more.
I have considered adding Reins of Power or something as a revenge card though for when Scion is killed.
Balefire Dragon
He's really good, the only reason he's not in the deck is because of redundancy.
I like Scourge of Kher Ridges because it doesn't require me to connect. Steel Hellkite is nice because it's not limited to creatures and can blow up permanents.
Then I have Wrath of God or even Living Death because you can't just rely on Scion.
I may eventually add him though if I feel like I'm running out of solutions and if not I will probably at least sideboard him.
Moltensteel Dragon
I'm not sure how I feel about this one.
It seems like it could be really good, but then again it would probably not be the greatest dragon you could play if it were drawn.
I suppose that's why Scroll Rack and Jace are in the deck, I will have to play test this for sure.
Zodiac Dragon
This one caught me by supprise, I had never payed attention to the graveyard clause and had just dismissed the card because it didn't have flying.
I like it, but it would suck even more to draw than Quicksilver Dragon.
Still though, I'll have to think about it.
Some great cards spoiled, and I was also able to finally do some play testing.
The mana base is great, there were only two games I had to mulligan and I never had to mulligan twice.
Change List
-Twisted Justice
+Bant Charm
-Joiner Adept & Coalition Relic
+Chromatic Lantern
+Fabricate
-Asceticism
+Sterling Grove
-Pillar of the Paruns
+Transguild Promenade
Twisted Justice: I thought it said "Target Creature" it's kinda terrible. Chromatic Lantern: Really badass, it's going to replace both Coalition relic and Joiner Adept. Fabricate: Fetches Sol Ring, Greaves/Boots, Chromatic Lantern, Steel Hellkite. Silverblade Paladin is replacing Mage Slayer.
Mage Slayer is amazing, but Silverblade Paladin lets me do more damage faster.
It works pretty much like Rafiq, the mana I would spend to equip something gets put into fire-breathing instead. Asceticism: was too redundant, Sterling Grove will fetch me any enchantment I need. Transguild Promenade: yay, a new Rupture Spire.
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Mana Base
Added original duals, or proxies anyway.
I will slowly aquire them as I am able.
I found that after adding them a lot of the time I would end up stuck in a color wedge. (Grixis for example)
While using both Shocks and Duals there are 6 cards that represent each 3 color wedge.
Drawing a bunch of a wedge can really screw you, especially with colorless utility lands in the deck.
To solve the problem I exchanged the Non-forest Shocks with the Alara Lands.
Enchantments
I removed a lot of the enchantments and one or two big spells in favor of Ramp and Spot Removal.
Gratuitous Violence
One of the Enchantments I did add was Gratuitous Violence, it is just so epic.
It is better than Finest Hour in this deck because I only have to connect with my creature once and I am not limited to attacking with one creature.
Sylvan Library
I replaced Jace with Sylvan Library, the scry helps eliminate drawing unwanted dragons in the first place and the card draw is great.
Time Spiral
Compliments Time Twister, should have been in the deck a long time ago.
Intet, the Dreamer
He is mostly good stuff, but can come through now and then.
It is good to have creatures in the deck that aren't immediately intimidating.
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It's been a long time since I've really updated anything, I've been busy with other things.
After a great deal of play testing I finally have an update for the deck list.
I also updated the multiplayer section, I highly recommend that anyone having a hard time with Scion in multiplaer read this section.
The whole purpose of this guide is to help people struggling with Scion in a multiplayer setting.
I'm not going to go through all of the changes but here are a few:
-Inquisitor's Flail -Ajani, Caller of the Pride
These cards have to target or be equiped to scion, which is annoying when lightning Greaves are equiped.
There was usually also something else I wanted to play more, and now that Aurelia, the Warleader has been spoiled I find even less reason to play them.
-Wrath of God +Final Judgement
Normally I would use Terminus to avoid exiling my creatures, but having Scion tucked is really a pain.
I'd rather send him to the command zone at the possible expense of exiling a creature or two. +Frost Titan
He has been an absolute all-star, I was never unhappy to draw him +Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
I finally caved and added him.
There is, believe it or not, room for two Nicol Bolas cards in one deck.
He is a win condition of his own. -Cruel Ultimatum
This card is a complete pain to cast, and when I was able to there was always something else I wanted to cast more.
On the chopping block: Sun Titan
Really unnecessary most of the time in this deck, fits another deck I am working on much better. Venser, the Sojourner
Again, this card would be better in a different deck.
While he's a win condition, he doesn't fit the theme, and I don't need him to win.
My opinion on Return to Ravnica Cards: Chromatic Lantern: Infinitely superior to Coalition Relic.
If you have a five color deck buy this card. Cyclonic Rift: Beautiful card, extremely versatile and fun to play. Angel of Serenity: This is a great card, but dies to a lot of removal and is only a temporary solution. Oblivion Ring or Detention Sphere are much better choices if you need to remove something weird like a Privileged Position which has been made indestructible by Avacyn. Utvara Hellkite[/CARD]: He's really expensive.
In most cases I think I would rather play Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, Stormtide Leviathan, or even Empyrial Archangel (Avacyn's best friend).
He seems much better in a Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund or Kresh the Bloodbraided deck.
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First of all, nice deck and set-up for your post. I was curious if you ever thought of running Worldgorger Dragon and adding a few slots for the reanimation enchants that allow for it to combo?
Scion gives you an easy way to dump him in the graveyard and since reanimation already has good synergy with Scion decks it seems like a nice addition.
The changes you would need to make are fairly negligible depending on how you want to combo out. I personally like Piranha Marsh or Temple Bell.
Edit: Also what are your thoughts on running the infinite attack combo w/Aggravated Assault or Hellkite Charger (or Scion as Hellkite Charger) and Bear Umbra/Sword of Feast and Famine?
I had thought about the Worldgorger Dragon combo but I felt that it was a little convoluted.
I requires you to either have Scion on the field or discard Worldgorger, and then you need your reanimation and kill cards.
My group is also pretty casual, every once and a while we will talk about playing stax or something but no one wants to actually play it.
I will often not combo out with Niv-Mizzet even if I draw Ophidian Eye because I don't want my group to become frustrated with it and I don't want everyone to focus on me every game.
That being said, I continue to upgrade Scion to match the overall skill and competitiveness of our playgroup and that combo very well might find it's way in someday.
I am also aware of the Hellkite Charger combo, but I had put it at the back of my mind.
I think I will try it out, as it seems mana intensive enough to not piss off my group.
Thank you for your post, it is refreshing to hear from someone with knowledge of multiplayer Scion.
I think this is the best feedback I have gotten.
Sorry for the delay in responding and I appreciate the props. I've been playing Scion a bit, but my play group is very small so it's tuned to a pretty specific meta.
That said for getting Worldgorger into the graveyard, there are other ways. I play three Wheel of Fortune type effects (Dragon Mage, Knollspine Dragon, and Wheel of Fortune), in addition I also run Spellbound Dragon which functions as another discard outlet (and an additional synergy is that I run at least one Eldrazi so I can use that to recycle my graveyard).
The downside of this set-up is that you go all in on the graveyard, which isn't the end of the game if you get wiped out, but it is a severe setback.
I do also have some direct feedback regarding your decklist. This is more optimization and less suggestions for additions:
1. Switch Angel of Despair for Ulamog. Ulamog's graveyard ability is very relevant to your deck allowing you to recycle dragons and I found that I have an easier time (unless I hit Chromatic Lantern or some other fixer) casting Ulamog because he can use any color combination. See my comments above about considering using Wheel of Fortune type effects. Also you have Angel of Despair listed twice in your deck.
2. Switch Final Judgment out for just about any other board sweeper. I don't like the idea that I could lose a dragon for good, especially if it is a favored Scion target. Rout is a good alternative as it clears the board and it can be used at instant speed for just one more mana.
3. Not so much a deck critique, but you may want to look at the tags in your deck list, all of them appear to have two extra spaces in front of the cards names so none of them work when clicked on without deleting the spaces and re-searching magiccards.info.
Sorry for the delay in responding and I appreciate the props. I've been playing Scion a bit, but my play group is very small so it's tuned to a pretty specific meta.
Np, I apreciate the advice.
1. Switch Angel of Despair for Ulamog.
Ulamog was originally in the deck along with Conspiracy.
I would turn Scion into Ulamog and then repeat every turn as he would be shuffled back into my library.
I took out the combo because I was often unhappy drawing both of those cards early in the game.
Conspiracy, sadly, is a dead card early game and Ulamog's converted mana cost is a pain when there are already cards like Dragon Tyrant and Time Stretch in the deck.
Angel of Despair is cheaper and can be brought out with Kaalia of the Vast.
Ulamog's graveyard ability is very relevant to your deck allowing you to recycle dragons.
I know, I used to run Spellbound Dragon and other discard outlets to dump him but the way I play Scion has changed.
You draw so much attention when you play Scion throughout the game, I have found I do better when I play him conservatively.
As such, I don't need so much dragon shuffle but I do play Time Reversal, Temporal Cascade, and Elixir of Immortality to fuel Scion and Niv-Mizzet.
2. Switch Final Judgment out for just about any other board sweeper.
This was my initial feeling regarding the card as well, but it plays much better than you would think.
It's a really good answer to Avacyn, Angel of Hope or Slivers, and it's not the end of the world if you lose a creature or two.
3. Not so much a deck critique, but you may want to look at the tags in your deck list.
Thank you, I need to fix this and update the deck list.
In regards to the Worldgorger Dragon and Hellkite Charger combos:
They are both really awesome, and if you are playing competitively I would include them.
Hellkite Charger is mana intensive, but there are lots of ways to address that.
The thing is, I only play magic with friends and I know they don't want to see these combos over and over.
Sorry if that's kind of a lame answer,I always feel guilty for not taking people's advice on this site, especially someone who knows what they are talking about.
Thank you again for the input, really.
Deck Name: RYUJIN
Notes:
All images hosted by Magiccards.info
For Combo info see guide bellow.
Any questions or feedback would be awesome.
Why Play Scion the Ur-Dragon in Multiplayer Commander?
Scion decks have access to every spell in the game.
Having an answer for just about everything.
Scion can do anything!
He can destroy permanents, he can protect himself, he can make tokens, he can reanimate,
he can draw you cards, he can send an opponent's kill spell right back at them,
he can make someone discard their entire hand, and with Conspiracy he can do just about anything left over.
It's a Dragon!
If you like big creatures it’s hard to beat a deck that can tutor them into play for 2 mana!
Scion is more fun to play against Multiplayer
1 on 1 Scion can be extremely frustrating to play against because it's just so good.
There are obviously decks that can beat it, but there are a lot that can't compete well.
With great power comes...death sadly.
You don't like having a steep curve
Having a steep curve goes hand in hand with playing a lot of dragons.
You don't like complex mana bases.
5 color mana bases require a lot of tuning to be optimal.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
The Five-Color Conundrum
One of the hardest things about building a five-color deck is getting the mana right. I would highly recomend investing in Shock Lands, and if money is not an issue I would recommend purchasing Dual Lands as they can't be beaten. What makes these lands so great is that they count for the land types that produce their respective mana. Steam Vents, which taps for both U and R, is classified as a Island Mountain and may be fetched by anything that can fetch a island or a mountain. Fetch Lands like Verdant Catacombs and ramp cards like Skyshroud Claim are amazing with these cards because they can search your deck for them and put them into play.
More on Dual Lands:
Dual Lands were originally printed in Alpha and were so popular that they were extended to revised.
Since Dual Lands have not been printed since they are extremely expensive and sought after by collectors.
The Karoo Lands from the original Ravnica block are some of the best lands ever to be printed.
They may come into play tapped, but they give you something Shocks and Duals can't: card advantage.
When you play a Karoo, you are first required to return a land from the battlefield to your hand. Many new players see this as something absolutely terrible and will immediately disregard them. However, after closer inspection we see Karoos tap for two mana, negating this penalty. The real secret though, is that you get to replay the land you returned to your hand. That land you returned is just one more land you don't have to draw to hit your land drops.
Unfortunately, there are drawbacks to Karoos, especially in a five color deck.
Playing a full set can be very slow as a significant percentage of your lands come into play tapped. Bad Scenario: you play a tap land, bounce it with a Karoo, and play another tap land the following turn. Worst Scenario: Sylvan Primordial.
The problem with Karoos more specific to our deck, is that we can use too many of them. Playing an entire cycle of Karoo lands makes it much more likely that you will have to discard early in the game. There is also the possibility that you will only draw Karoos in your opening hand and mulligans, forcing you to scoop.
Tapped Out: How my Graypelt Refuge Lost the Game
As stated earlier, drawing too many tapped lands can be a big problem. Occasionally, it will even lose you games because you couldn't get your spells off fast enough. An efficient five-color deck needs a large percentage of its lands to come into play untapped.
Fetches, Shocks, and Pain lands: Masochism at its Finest
Pain Lands are another potentially useful cycle of lands which come into play untapped and provide fixing. These lands either tap for 1, or deal one damage to you and tap for one of two different colors of mana. When used conservatively the damage taken from Pain lands is largely insignificant. Problems arise when the entire cycle is used with Shocks and Fetches. It is very possible to effectively kill yourself in pursuit of an optimal mana base.
While two-color lands are very helpful, playing twenty or more of them can backfire. Occasionally you become trapped in a "Three Color Wedge," a combination of lands which produce the same three colors of mana.
For example, there is Grixis which is comprised of UBR. If you are running one of these ten card cycles (Shocks, Duals, Pain Lands, Karoos, ect), three of them tap for Grixis. Once more, each additional cycle you add increases the number of cards that correspond to any given wedge by three. So, if you decided to run four whole cycles you would have twelve cards which tapped for mana in each wedge. This can result in you being locked out of two colors, and is why lands that tap for larger combinations of mana are necessary.
Murmuring Bosk, Tri-Lands, and Vivids
Murmuring Bosk is a Forest that taps for green and gives you the option of tapping for W or B at the cost of one damage. As it is a forest, it can be fetched like the Shocks and Duals, and if you happen to have a Treefolk it comes into play untapped. Similarly, the Tri-Lands from the Alara block; these lands may not be as easy to fetch, but they tap for an entire wedge for free.
From the Lorwyn block we have the Vivid Lands, which come into play tapped with two charge counters on them. Each of these lands taps for its given color of mana and or a mana of your choice when a charge counter is removed. After the counters are removed the lands continue to tap for their respective mana.
Five-Color Lands: The Best Fixing Around
Finally, there are five-color lands like Forbidden Orchard which tap for any color of mana. These lands usually have some requirement to use them, but provide the essential fixing needed to cast a five-colored general in a timely manner.
Mana Rocks and Prisms
Mana Rocks are essential for most commander decks; they help you compete against mass land destruction and provide needed execration. There are very few decks that would not be better with a Sol Ring. Obviously, in Scion decks it is also important to have mana rocks that produce mana of any color. Some of them are expensive, but there are many cheap alternatives like Fellwar Stone and Darksteel Ingot.
Additionally, Mana Prisms have been around since Celestial Prism was printed in alpha and work much like prisms in real life. If you have ever held up a prism to the sun you know that they produce an effect similar to that of a rainbow. Mana Prisms in magic take mana from your mana pool, then bend and refract it into a multicolor mana. Most of these cards aren't really optimal to run, but Crystal Quarry is a great form of filtering.
Land Type
Prismatic Omen and Joiner Adept go a step further than prisms by altering your lands' basic land types. Perfecting a five color mana base can be a tedious and expensive ordeal, and these cards are great to play when you first start building your deck because they widen your margin for error. If your mana base is suboptimal or you fetch the wrong lands these cards will pull you through.
Ramp: Playing Green? Why not Sylvan Primordial?
Ramp can be very helpful for new Scion Players because it lets them compensate for a heavy curve and imperfected mana bases. Cards like Skyshroud Claim and Ranger's Path that let you search for forests preform very well with Shock Lands, and provide much needed fixing. That being said, while playing a few ramp cards may be helpful, I don't advocate making Scion into a ramp deck. Playing a lot of ramp is good when it is synergistic with your deck, but when it's not it leads you to over-extend and lose to wrath affects.
Mana Creatures: Here Today, Gone Terminus
Mana creatures can be used to provide the fixing needed for your general, but they are slow because they are subject to summoning sickness and you have to wait a turn to use them. A much more frustrating problem with mana creatures is that they are inevitably Wrathed and you lose your all of your fixing.
The Dragon Shuffle: Bouncing Unwanted Party Crashers
One problem with playing a Scion deck is that there are some dragons that you just don't want to draw. For example: there are very few situations where you would rather have Dragon Tyrant in your hand than in your deck, where he can be tutored into play to smash face. Unfortunately, to be competitive you are going to want to draw answers and threats throughout the game. The solution to this problem is to play cards like Foresee and Amass the Components which essentially prevent you from drawing too many dragons you don't want to cast. And, if you do draw dragons that you don't want in your hand, Time Reversal and Time Spiral allow you to shuffle them back in your deck. Scroll Rack is also an incredibly powerful tool that can be used in conjunction with shuffle effects to return dragons to your library.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
I'm not going to go into how Hermit Druid works, I've never personally used the combo and I'd just be repeating the other thread.
1. Get WUBRG as soon as possible.
2. Play Scion of the Ur-Dragon.
3. Swing with Nicol Bolas and dump their hand.
4. Swing with Dragon Tyrant for the Kill.
Scion is downright vicious in a single player game. The lands you play are like sand in an hourglass, each representing one less turn your opponent has to draw a solution. Removal is usually useless unless it tucks or binds your general because you can simply recast it. If you get Lightning Greaves early on it's usually over.
Your Weaknesses
Control Decks
Tuck Cards
Board Wipe
Always declare Scion as an attacker before you use his ability.
Sometimes your opponent will jump the gun and you can choose to regenerate before you tap out for fire breathing. If you remember nothing else from this thread remember that.
One of my favorite cards is Death by Dragons. It is a favorite not so much for its playability, as it is for the art and flavor text on the card. The artwork depicts a helpless man surrounded by dragons and flavor text reads: "Suddenly, Eldo felt very alone." The quote is meant to be humorous as the card gives everyone a dragon except for the targeted player. It is however, somewhat ironic to a Scion player, as they will often feel that their dragon is very alone on the board.
Multiplayer is a completely different animal than single player with Scion; if you play scion as fast as possible you are going to lose. You can easily take out a player, you might even take out two in a row, but the third will kill you. In multiplayer Scion is almost an afterthought. While he's still a win condition, he's something you play like Insurrection, late in the game at a decisive moment.
Be Passive
The best way to play Scion is to let someone else be the aggressor if at all possible. Get a blocker out, something like Intet, the Dreamer, which is more or less harmless, is ideal. Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon is a great blocker because of his regeneration, but sometimes people you play against will filp out upon seeing any form of infect, so be careful.
Call Attention to Board State
If someone is about to swing, and you feel they are ignoring something potentially hazardous to the board say something. Saying "Don't forget board state man" is a perfectly legitimate strategy, and probably the most politically correct way to draw attention to someone else. I can't tell you how many times I used to sit through a game silently while someone focused on me, ignoring a fleet of tokens or a planeswalker. Don't play magic this way, help other people be better players by learning to assess threats. If people get offended that's their problem; it's not your fault if someone gets mad because you don't want to just hand them the game.
Play Politically
Ganging up on someone is a big offense in magic unless they are dominating the board or have already decided to team up against you. Similarly, people hate group hug and it's usually counterintuitive with Scion. That being said, there are little things you can do here and there that can improve everyone's position and inspire a certain level of camaraderie. For example, if someone is getting overwhelmed don't be afraid to eliminate the threat, chances are that once they are eliminated you're next.
Have Fun
Don't be that guy. While calling attention to board state is important, don't tell players how to play their turn, this is extremely rude. Telling someone information which hadn't occurred to him or her will not just get you a lot of hate during the game, it will piss off your friends. And, in all honesty, if you are going to make all the decisions for someone you might as well be playing solitaire.
Don't be over-competitive. Part of playing magic is having people answer threats, and if you are playing threats people will answer them. If you are getting upset because your plan didn't work out you are not only ruining the everyone's experience, you are drawing unwanted attention and setting yourself up to make play mistakes.
Sometimes you will get people who will focus on you every game for no reason. A lot of the time it is because Scion has a reputation, but sometimes someone will just decide they don't want you to win. Try not to take this personally, once they learn to gauge your deck they will relax. It should only take one game of people being trampled to death because they ignored board state to learn. If the problem persists you might want to find a new play group.
Double Strike and Double Damage
Double Strike is very important to Scion decks. Boosting Scion's Power to 21 is very difficult, but getting him to 11 is very feasible. The goal of every Scion deck should be to do as much damage as possible, as economically as possible, and as Double Strike doubles your damage output it is one of the best ways to achieve this. Duelist's Heritage and Rafiq of the Many are a great examples of double strike cards.
Cards that double damage like Gratuitous Violence and Gisela, Blade of Goldnight are great because they stack with double strike. Playing Gisela off of Kaalia of the Vast or Sneak Attack is a great way to sneak in a kill.
Additional Combat Phases and Turns
Cards that give additional combat phases and turns can be very economical as they give us something vital to victory: time. Magic is just a race against a clock (well, multiple clocks if you want to get technical), and these cards manipulate it in our favor. When you think about it, these cards are just like double strike, in that they are essentially doubling our damage output and decreasing the number of turns needed to kill someone. Savage Beating, Scourge of the Throne, and Time Stretch are good examples of these cards.
As Scion is such an efficient assassin, people will devote a decent amount of effort towards killing him, and inevitably succeed. As such, our goal is to maximize Scion's efficiency while he is on the battlefield and increase our chances of alpha-striking someone before he's killed.
Haste: In and Out
Haste is another essential aspect of a Scion deck; he is simply too slow and vulnerable without it. The best way to prepare for a kill with Scion is to set out a few enchantments and then swing with a hasted Scion. Lightning Greaves, Swiftfoor Boots, and Hellkite Overlord are examples of cards that give your general haste.
Hexproof and Shroud
Hexproof and shroud are probably Scion's strongest form of defense. They don't protect him from wraths, but they protect him from most forms of tuck (something that is far worst than having him killed). Depending on the competitiveness of your meta, hexproof and shroud make it a little safer to leave Scion out on the field for a turn rotation. Lightning Greaves, Swiftfoor Boots, Champion's Helm, and Asceticism are all good sources of hexproof and shroud.
Flash: So, You Guys are All Tapped Out?
Cards like Leyline of Anticipation and Prophet of Kruphix are great tools. They allow us to play Scion at any time, forcing our opponents to constantly keep mana open to deal with him. This also allows us to keep mana open and respond to threats before flashing Scion in at someone's end step.
Unblockability
It is very fortunate for Scion players that while flying is one of the most basic forms of evasion, very few people play many flying blockers. However, it will occasionally become a problem. Examples of cards that make Scion hard to block are:
Bower Passage, Whispersilk Cloak, and Sun Quan, Lord of Wu.
While you are not playing control it is important to squeeze a counterspell or two in your deck. Counterspells are important because they give you the ability to stop your friend's game winning spell, and allow you to protect Scion. Pact of Negation is great because it can be payed for 0 in response to instant speed removal, allowing you to get through with damage. Plasm Capture is great because you can play it in response to a wrath and use the mana for fire-breathing next turn.
Cavern of Souls
Speaking of counterspells, Cavern of Souls is a great way to protect the dragons in your deck from them.
Indestructibility
I generally advise against using card slots for cards that provide indestructibility as indestructibility does not protect your general from being tucked. However, I support Boros Charm and Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Dragon Utility
Another way to protect Scion is by using his ability to turn him into something that can defend itself. Hellkite Overlord and Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon both provide Scion with the ability to regenerate himself. Additionally, Quicksilver Dragon can return a player's single target spell right back at their own creature.
The great thing about infect damage, is that it still counts as general damage when dealt by your commander. This means that if something goes wrong and we are unable to connect with 10 infect, any infect damage dealt by Scion will still benefit us. In other words, it is not as if we have wasted our turn. Unfortunately, there is a lot of stigma and controversy surrounding the use of infect in commander, and you may get hated out of the game. If this doesn't phase you then throw on a Jason mask and grab your chainsaw; it's time to ruin someone's day. And, while you're at it grab Rafiq of the Many as he lets our pal Slim swing for lethal.
Conspiracy: The Eldrazi Yo-Yo
This combo uses Conspiracy's ability to change the type of creatures that are in your deck. It begins by playing Conspiracy and choosing the creature type dragon; Scion is now able to become any creature in your deck. There are a lot of fun things you could choose, but the eldrazi legends are arguably the most efficient choice because they shuffle back into your library as soon as they enter your graveyard. This means you can continue to use them, turn after turn, until someone disrupts the combo. Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre is nice because he's indestructible, and harder to get rid of.
Mass Polymorph: Token Shenanigans
While Mass Polymorph may not be the most efficient combo, it is undoubtedly the most fun. The combo works by using Rith, the Awakener to make a bunch of tokens, and casting Mass Polymorph to dump a bunch of dragons onto the battlefield. It is preferable to do this with Fires of Yavimaya in play, but if that is not an option our hope is that we will flip over a Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund. Be careful though, Karrthus can be dangerous if people are playing clones. This is a very fragile combo, but when it works it's beautiful. Flipping over an Avacyn, Angel of Hope in the midst of a large Mass Polymorph usually means you win the game.
Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Avacyn, Angel of Hope is a power house, and if left unanswered she will run over anything in her path. Playing her with Empyrial Archangel creates a nearly impenetrable wall, and if you manage to give her shroud she's an absolute pain to remove.
Living Death: Should Have Remembered Rule #2
Living Death is a perfect card to use late game or after a wrathed Mass Polymorph. Some people shy away from this card because it reanimates your opponent's creatures, but it's important to remember that a great deal of your creatures have flying; speaking from my own personal experience, most people don't play enough creatures with flying or reach. This card is also really synergistic with the deck, as you can pitch dragons with Scion or Demonic Collusion to summon an army of zombie dragons!
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind: (Z->)90° - (E-N²W)90°t=1
This combo uses Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and Ophidian Eye to take out opponents by drawing cards. With Ophidian Eye, Niv-Mizzet is limited only by the number of cards in your library. This is a strong alternative to The Classic Scion Win in 1 v 1, and still can eliminate half the board in multiplayer. Just be careful not to deck yourself.
Time Stretch
Time Stretch gives this deck just what it needs: more time. Time can dictate whether we swing for lethal damage or get killed. It can be the difference between getting a combo off and almost winning. Time Stretch gives us that extra push, and is even more powerful when fired off the back of a Maelstrom Archangel. Be careful; as Time Stretch targets, you are vulnerable to Wild Ricochet. If you have the cash, I recommend investing in a Pact of Negation.
Knowledge Exploitation is any sorcery in your opponents' decks whenever you need it. It's really an amazing card, and more people should play it.
Hellkite Charger
Hellkite Charger brings another interesting combo to the table. If you activate its ability and connect with either a Sword of Feast and Famine or Bear Umbra, you can activate its ability again during the next combat phase with the lands you untapped, and continue attacking as long as you are able to connect for damage.
Worldgorger Dragon
The Worldgorger Dragon combo works by first entombing Worldgorger Dragon with Scion. Once she is in your graveyard you can then reanimate her with Animate Dead or Necromancy. The way this works is kind of complicated, so don't feel bad if you need to reread the explanation a few times.
As Worldgorger Dragon enters the battlefield it's effect triggers, exiling your reanimation enchantment. Additionally, when your reanimation enchantment is exiled its own effect triggers causing you to sacrifice Worldgorger. However, as Worldgorger leaves the battlefield, the second clause of it's ability triggers, and causes an infinite loop. You can use this combo along with cards like Piranha Marsh or Temple Bell to kill the table.
Scourge of Valkas
This is, in my opinion, the strongest Scion win condition outside of Hermit Druid. After using Rite of Replication, 6 Scourge of Valkas will see 5 dragons entering the battlefield simultaneously, and each do 6 damage for each of these instances. 6 X 5 X 6 = 180 Damage, Game Over.
Special thanks to Deadguydrew and anyone else who has contributed to this deck!!!
And to my friends, for all the hours they have helped me play-test.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
~EDH~
GRWMayael the AnimaGRW
RGStonebrow, Krosan HeroRG
URTibor & LumiaUR
BWRGUKarona, False God "Allies"UGRWB
UWLavinia of the Tenth (In progress)WU
It's nice, and I have been wanting to add Mana Severance or Trench Gorger.
My group aren't fans of combos like this though, at least some of them. People complain if I use Darksteel Plate lol.
Update: Removed the pain lands and added the Alara lands as well as 5 basics and Mana Severance. Going to play test and see if I don't get completely mana screwed.
If anyone would like to help the deck is here:
http://www.mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/ViewDeck/195265
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
Here's the link: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/autocardanywhere/eobkhgkgoejnjaiofdmphhkemmomfabg?hl=en
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
I'm not going to go over everything I cut but I'll talk about the dragons.
Teneb, the Harvester and Vorosh, the Hunter are gone.
They are great cards, I just don't feel they work well with Scion.
Teneb is 5 mana for a reanimation spell that requires me to connect.
Vorosh is even worse as he is just a body the turn you use him.
Then, only if scion hasn't been killed after everyone has taken their turn you get the counters. That is my reasoning anyway.
-Fist of Suns
+Urza's Incubator
I think it will help me more in the long run.
+Mana-Charged Dragon
+Moonveil Dragon
Mana charged dragon comes with trample and lets me pay any color mana to pump it. Moonveil Dragon also has fire breathing and pumps other creatures as well.
+Avacyn, Angel of Hope
What can I say, I use Kaalia of the Vast and she prevents wrath.
Lands
I removed the basics and added just the pain lands which tap for red mana along with Grove of the Burnwillows.
Win conditions
+Cauldron Dance
+Rite of Replication
Cauldron Dance is freaking awesome, it lets me bring back a hasted Nicol Bolas and then place Yosei, the Morning Star on the battlefield and sacrifice it.
I can also sacrifice Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre to shuffle my graveyard into my library to reuse dragons if need be.
Kokusho, the Evening Star has been added as place holder, but I will use him if he gets unbanned.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
I'll address each one of your comments and update the original post.
Mana Creatures: The downside to these is obviously that they get wrathed, however they can be very helpful early on.
I have been testing the mana base at MTGDeckbuilder and so far it has done pretty well.
However, I really need to finish assembling the deck and do some actual play testing to get a clearer picture.
Whispersilk Cloak
I've been on the fence about this one for a while, it's kind of expensive to equip the same turn you cast scion but it's just so good.
Aspect of Mongoose
I like that it comes back to you but I would rather add Whispersilk Cloak and a tutor or two to fetch one of the boots as they do more for me while in play.
Keiga, the Tide Star
Keiga is awesome but I dislike that it has to be killed.
I feel like if I'm going to sack Scion that Yosei, the Morning Star (or Kokusho, the Evening Star if unbanned) would benefit me more.
I have considered adding Reins of Power or something as a revenge card though for when Scion is killed.
Balefire Dragon
He's really good, the only reason he's not in the deck is because of redundancy.
I like Scourge of Kher Ridges because it doesn't require me to connect.
Steel Hellkite is nice because it's not limited to creatures and can blow up permanents.
Then I have Wrath of God or even Living Death because you can't just rely on Scion.
I may eventually add him though if I feel like I'm running out of solutions and if not I will probably at least sideboard him.
Moltensteel Dragon
I'm not sure how I feel about this one.
It seems like it could be really good, but then again it would probably not be the greatest dragon you could play if it were drawn.
I suppose that's why Scroll Rack and Jace are in the deck, I will have to play test this for sure.
Zodiac Dragon
This one caught me by supprise, I had never payed attention to the graveyard clause and had just dismissed the card because it didn't have flying.
I like it, but it would suck even more to draw than Quicksilver Dragon.
Still though, I'll have to think about it.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
Decklist as well as guide.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
The mana base is great, there were only two games I had to mulligan and I never had to mulligan twice.
Change List
-Twisted Justice
+Bant Charm
-Joiner Adept & Coalition Relic
+Chromatic Lantern
+Fabricate
-Asceticism
+Sterling Grove
-Pillar of the Paruns
+Transguild Promenade
Twisted Justice: I thought it said "Target Creature" it's kinda terrible.
Chromatic Lantern: Really badass, it's going to replace both Coalition relic and Joiner Adept.
Fabricate: Fetches Sol Ring, Greaves/Boots, Chromatic Lantern, Steel Hellkite.
Silverblade Paladin is replacing Mage Slayer.
Mage Slayer is amazing, but Silverblade Paladin lets me do more damage faster.
It works pretty much like Rafiq, the mana I would spend to equip something gets put into fire-breathing instead.
Asceticism: was too redundant, Sterling Grove will fetch me any enchantment I need.
Transguild Promenade: yay, a new Rupture Spire.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
+Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
Finally a dragon with better card draw.
The deck is pretty much complete unltil something better is released.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
OMG
Just when I thought I was out...they pull me back in.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
Mana Base
Added original duals, or proxies anyway.
I will slowly aquire them as I am able.
I found that after adding them a lot of the time I would end up stuck in a color wedge. (Grixis for example)
While using both Shocks and Duals there are 6 cards that represent each 3 color wedge.
Drawing a bunch of a wedge can really screw you, especially with colorless utility lands in the deck.
To solve the problem I exchanged the Non-forest Shocks with the Alara Lands.
Enchantments
I removed a lot of the enchantments and one or two big spells in favor of Ramp and Spot Removal.
Gratuitous Violence
One of the Enchantments I did add was Gratuitous Violence, it is just so epic.
It is better than Finest Hour in this deck because I only have to connect with my creature once and I am not limited to attacking with one creature.
Sylvan Library
I replaced Jace with Sylvan Library, the scry helps eliminate drawing unwanted dragons in the first place and the card draw is great.
Time Spiral
Compliments Time Twister, should have been in the deck a long time ago.
Intet, the Dreamer
He is mostly good stuff, but can come through now and then.
It is good to have creatures in the deck that aren't immediately intimidating.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
Cut the Conspiracy combo, it's really fun but it doesn't do enough by itself.
Other changes were made here and there, but I think they are pretty obvious.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
After a great deal of play testing I finally have an update for the deck list.
I also updated the multiplayer section, I highly recommend that anyone having a hard time with Scion in multiplaer read this section.
The whole purpose of this guide is to help people struggling with Scion in a multiplayer setting.
I'm not going to go through all of the changes but here are a few:
-Inquisitor's Flail
-Ajani, Caller of the Pride
These cards have to target or be equiped to scion, which is annoying when lightning Greaves are equiped.
There was usually also something else I wanted to play more, and now that Aurelia, the Warleader has been spoiled I find even less reason to play them.
-Wrath of God
+Final Judgement
Normally I would use Terminus to avoid exiling my creatures, but having Scion tucked is really a pain.
I'd rather send him to the command zone at the possible expense of exiling a creature or two.
+Frost Titan
He has been an absolute all-star, I was never unhappy to draw him
+Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
I finally caved and added him.
There is, believe it or not, room for two Nicol Bolas cards in one deck.
He is a win condition of his own.
-Cruel Ultimatum
This card is a complete pain to cast, and when I was able to there was always something else I wanted to cast more.
On the chopping block:
Sun Titan
Really unnecessary most of the time in this deck, fits another deck I am working on much better.
Venser, the Sojourner
Again, this card would be better in a different deck.
While he's a win condition, he doesn't fit the theme, and I don't need him to win.
My opinion on Return to Ravnica Cards:
Chromatic Lantern: Infinitely superior to Coalition Relic.
If you have a five color deck buy this card.
Cyclonic Rift: Beautiful card, extremely versatile and fun to play.
Angel of Serenity: This is a great card, but dies to a lot of removal and is only a temporary solution.
Oblivion Ring or Detention Sphere are much better choices if you need to remove something weird like a Privileged Position which has been made indestructible by Avacyn.
Utvara Hellkite[/CARD]: He's really expensive.
In most cases I think I would rather play Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, Stormtide Leviathan, or even Empyrial Archangel (Avacyn's best friend).
He seems much better in a Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund or Kresh the Bloodbraided deck.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
First of all, nice deck and set-up for your post. I was curious if you ever thought of running Worldgorger Dragon and adding a few slots for the reanimation enchants that allow for it to combo?
Scion gives you an easy way to dump him in the graveyard and since reanimation already has good synergy with Scion decks it seems like a nice addition.
The changes you would need to make are fairly negligible depending on how you want to combo out. I personally like Piranha Marsh or Temple Bell.
Edit: Also what are your thoughts on running the infinite attack combo w/Aggravated Assault or Hellkite Charger (or Scion as Hellkite Charger) and Bear Umbra/Sword of Feast and Famine?
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa | Korlash, Heir to Blackblade | Karador Apostles | Brago, King Eternal | Talrand the Sky Summoner | Mageta the Lion
I had thought about the Worldgorger Dragon combo but I felt that it was a little convoluted.
I requires you to either have Scion on the field or discard Worldgorger, and then you need your reanimation and kill cards.
My group is also pretty casual, every once and a while we will talk about playing stax or something but no one wants to actually play it.
I will often not combo out with Niv-Mizzet even if I draw Ophidian Eye because I don't want my group to become frustrated with it and I don't want everyone to focus on me every game.
That being said, I continue to upgrade Scion to match the overall skill and competitiveness of our playgroup and that combo very well might find it's way in someday.
I am also aware of the Hellkite Charger combo, but I had put it at the back of my mind.
I think I will try it out, as it seems mana intensive enough to not piss off my group.
Thank you for your post, it is refreshing to hear from someone with knowledge of multiplayer Scion.
I think this is the best feedback I have gotten.
Edit: Updated combo info to guide
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
Sorry for the delay in responding and I appreciate the props. I've been playing Scion a bit, but my play group is very small so it's tuned to a pretty specific meta.
That said for getting Worldgorger into the graveyard, there are other ways. I play three Wheel of Fortune type effects (Dragon Mage, Knollspine Dragon, and Wheel of Fortune), in addition I also run Spellbound Dragon which functions as another discard outlet (and an additional synergy is that I run at least one Eldrazi so I can use that to recycle my graveyard).
The downside of this set-up is that you go all in on the graveyard, which isn't the end of the game if you get wiped out, but it is a severe setback.
I do also have some direct feedback regarding your decklist. This is more optimization and less suggestions for additions:
1. Switch Angel of Despair for Ulamog. Ulamog's graveyard ability is very relevant to your deck allowing you to recycle dragons and I found that I have an easier time (unless I hit Chromatic Lantern or some other fixer) casting Ulamog because he can use any color combination. See my comments above about considering using Wheel of Fortune type effects. Also you have Angel of Despair listed twice in your deck.
2. Switch Final Judgment out for just about any other board sweeper. I don't like the idea that I could lose a dragon for good, especially if it is a favored Scion target. Rout is a good alternative as it clears the board and it can be used at instant speed for just one more mana.
3. Not so much a deck critique, but you may want to look at the tags in your deck list, all of them appear to have two extra spaces in front of the cards names so none of them work when clicked on without deleting the spaces and re-searching magiccards.info.
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa | Korlash, Heir to Blackblade | Karador Apostles | Brago, King Eternal | Talrand the Sky Summoner | Mageta the Lion
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa | Korlash, Heir to Blackblade | Karador Apostles | Brago, King Eternal | Talrand the Sky Summoner | Mageta the Lion
Np, I apreciate the advice.
Ulamog was originally in the deck along with Conspiracy.
I would turn Scion into Ulamog and then repeat every turn as he would be shuffled back into my library.
I took out the combo because I was often unhappy drawing both of those cards early in the game.
Conspiracy, sadly, is a dead card early game and Ulamog's converted mana cost is a pain when there are already cards like Dragon Tyrant and Time Stretch in the deck.
Angel of Despair is cheaper and can be brought out with Kaalia of the Vast.
I know, I used to run Spellbound Dragon and other discard outlets to dump him but the way I play Scion has changed.
You draw so much attention when you play Scion throughout the game, I have found I do better when I play him conservatively.
As such, I don't need so much dragon shuffle but I do play Time Reversal, Temporal Cascade, and Elixir of Immortality to fuel Scion and Niv-Mizzet.
This was my initial feeling regarding the card as well, but it plays much better than you would think.
It's a really good answer to Avacyn, Angel of Hope or Slivers, and it's not the end of the world if you lose a creature or two.
Thank you, I need to fix this and update the deck list.
In regards to the Worldgorger Dragon and Hellkite Charger combos:
They are both really awesome, and if you are playing competitively I would include them.
Hellkite Charger is mana intensive, but there are lots of ways to address that.
The thing is, I only play magic with friends and I know they don't want to see these combos over and over.
Sorry if that's kind of a lame answer,I always feel guilty for not taking people's advice on this site, especially someone who knows what they are talking about.
Thank you again for the input, really.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master