He doesn't kill creatures however and that's why Pandemonium is still needed. Not to say that I would play about 15 Pandemonium effects if there were so many but we only have this and Warstorm Surge. I really don't understand how you guys may want to remove Pandemonium... while I understand there Re not many spots available.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Purphoros is gonna be great in this deck, isn't he?
Purphoros is great in pretty much every mono-red list (with exceptions), because it gets extra value out of something we're all already doing a lot of (having things enter the battlefield).
dnLL: A lot of people are less concerned with creatures. I'm sure some people resent their Pandemonium killing them that one time, too. It being x-sided instead of one-sided is a pretty big downside, though it being a 4-drop made up for it (because Surge is 6).
Though, I think if any deck is going to play both, it's Norin, and Norin should. All you're doing is abusing creatures entering the battlefield, so you might as well have as many ways to abuse that as possible.
In other decks, well, it's more cut-and-dry. Purphoros is the best in Krenko, and borderline the only playable one of the three (Pandemonium, Surge, Purphoros) because it's both on-curve and not going to act as removal for my vital creatures when my opponent plays a fatty.
dnLL: A lot of people are less concerned with creatures. I'm sure some people resent their Pandemonium killing them that one time, too. It being x-sided instead of one-sided is a pretty big downside, though it being a 4-drop made up for it (because Surge is 6).
Though, I think if any deck is going to play both, it's Norin, and Norin should. All you're doing is abusing creatures entering the battlefield, so you might as well have as many ways to abuse that as possible.
Well said. Pandemonium is x-sided yeah, you need some great political skills when playing more than one opponent (1v1 this is easy, Norin blinking every turn makes it worth itself).
I'm playing Wurmcoil Engine if my life is an issue (and it has great synergy with the whole deck) but yeah, once your opponents put you < 5 life with Pandemonium, you are in deep trouble.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I dont wan't to speak of blasphemy, but Purphoros is going to put Norin in my 99.
Nowhere near this for me, Norin blinks every turn of every player (assuming other players are doing something) and interacts with a lot of cards in the deck.
Purphoros by itself does absolutely nothing if Norin isn't on the battlefield and is easier to kill (not so easy to kill, but let's face it, Norin is really hard to kill).
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Strictly better than Pyroclasm in this format but 3 dmg isn't enough to be worth discussion here I think (I might be wrong). Even Blasphemous Act is just okay in this deck. We don't need it that much, and we have Mogg Infestation that serves multiple purposes.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Nowhere near this for me, Norin blinks every turn of every player (assuming other players are doing something) and interacts with a lot of cards in the deck.
Purphoros by itself does absolutely nothing if Norin isn't on the battlefield and is easier to kill (not so easy to kill, but let's face it, Norin is really hard to kill).
Would you like to do 8 virtually unanswerable damage to each player per turn cycle, or would you like to sit there and take in the hate for three turns per cycle?
It's obvious that Norin forgot to be errata'd and reprinted in this set.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Purphoros by itself does absolutely nothing if Norin isn't on the battlefield and is easier to kill (not so easy to kill, but let's face it, Norin is really hard to kill).
That's kind of the point though. Wouldn't it be better to have the card that is destroyed more easily to be your cmdr, so you can have access to it if its destroyed. That and it's cards like the god that are the enablers for norin that make it work. I'm going to test both as cmdrs to see which has better results but I have a feeling purphoros will have a higher success rate.
I really just want to mogg infestation 10 tokens and kill everybody.
Nowhere near this for me, Norin blinks every turn of every player (assuming other players are doing something) and interacts with a lot of cards in the deck.
Purphoros by itself does absolutely nothing if Norin isn't on the battlefield and is easier to kill (not so easy to kill, but let's face it, Norin is really hard to kill).
You forget:
Siege-gang Commander
Mogg War Marshal
Genesis Chamber
Beetleback Chief
He would trigger off more than just Norin. He would provide redundancy to Warstorm Surge and Pandemonium (if you run it) .
I'll just make this clear - Purphoros as a general and Norin as a general have two completely different playstyles, and should not be built using the same 99. The core is technically the same, but how the core interacts with the rest of the deck and the general is hugely different.
Purphoros - See enemy kill enemy. Due to the nature of the card, you're forced to play highly aggressively with lots of mass token makers in an attempt to kill the enemy before they can kill you. He *will* cause 3v1s simply by casting him without any time to set up a defensive plan. If you're trying to set up a defense with such an obviously aggressive general, you've already lost. You can't play attrition with him.
Norin - Because Norin literally does nothing but enable, you can't zerg rush your foes utilizing the power of your commander. Since you rely on the consistency and resiliency of your 99 to perform, your early game is interesting and your mid/late game incredible. The single best thing you can do with Norin is to persist. Purphoros adds to this with a way to make the ticking stop. Plus, a false God cannot rule a fake one. Duh.
Purphoros will certainly be stronger and more consistent in certain metagames, but truly lacks the ability to adapt to every changing board states. Your win con was declared on turn 1, after all. I'd rather bide my time until the time is right and then crush them with furry mammals and hugs.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
You forget:
Siege-gang Commander
Mogg War Marshal
Genesis Chamber
Beetleback Chief
He would trigger off more than just Norin. He would provide redundancy to Warstorm Surge and Pandemonium (if you run it) .
I don't even understand why we are having this discussion in this thread. There is a thread for Purphoros as a general and they are not even considering Warstorm Surge in the 99. This is not the same deck at all.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I don't even understand why we are having this discussion in this thread. There is a thread for Purphoros as a general and they are not even considering Warstorm Surge in the 99. This is not the same deck at all.
I thought your post was referring to Purphoros's usefulness as one of Norin's 99, not the other way around. My mistake.
No problem at all, I was just replying to someone who wants to swap Norin for Purphoros saying that last one is a better suit for the list we actually run.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
How well could he work in our deck? I've seen many games where he would deal 10 damage to everyone and we have quite a few tricks to re-use his ETB-ability.
I also like Firedrinker Satyr.
Not because he's good for this deck, but he has this "I want to be like Norin"-feeling, as if he's Norin's apprentice or something.
Devotion to red, seriously? I playtested Purphoros a little bit and it never turned into a creature the whole game (while it did about 80 dmg with Norin, 4-player game). If at least Fanatic of Mogis was a goblin... maybe.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
If devotion was based on the number of creatures of a color instead of mana symbols, then maybe the Mogis guy could work, but it still wouldn't be worth it.
If devotion was based on the number of creatures of a color instead of mana symbols, then maybe the Mogis guy could work, but it still wouldn't be worth it.
This.
I suppose since Theros is fully spoiled it's time for a run down of what's playable and what will be included.
Fanatic of Mogis - If you're playing less tokens and more red permanents, this is an alright option for surprise burst. Past that, it's got no usefulness.
Hammer of Purphoros - Better for those Possibility Storm players. I personally feel the four mana + a land cost of the activated ability is not worth it, as there are other enablers with a much lower cost. The Fervor effect is nice, but unnecessary.
Portent of Betrayal - If you really want act of treason and you really want to scry... I guess.
Akroan Horse - A wild Troy reference appears! There are some neat tricks you can do with this, but require Confusion in the Ranks. Other than that, does literally nothing. Cute card.
I've given it some thought and I personally will add Anger of the Gods, the God and maybe try out the Akroan Horse if I can get him really really cheap.
You guys would play Anger of the Gods over Blasphemous Act? Is there really any power-3 creatures so annoying that you prefer to spend all your mana to exile it and your own creatures instead of killing everything? In some metas against Gaddock Teeg for example I could understand but...
Purphoros is awesome, almost impossible to handle and does A LOT of damage with Norin. I also tried the Hammer. I disagree with you Gaka when you say that his ability is not worth it. Late game, turning every lands into 3/3s with haste isn't bad at all, and if you have any enchantment on the field (Warstorm Surge, Purphoros or Confusion), it becomes really good. Haste is a nice plus too, we only have Chieftain and Anger.
I don't say it will make the final cut (it probably won't, and I don't see how it really helps with Possibility Storm, Fervor is a pure enchantment and better for the Storm as you usually prefer to hit enchantments), but it's still good overall.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
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For me now...
- Fork
- Reverberate
- Zealous Conscript (flavour reason)
- Changeling Berserker
+ Radiate
+ Purphoros
+ Thawning Glaciers
+ Lightning Crafter
I'm also playing Mindslaver actually and it's been really good while rarely infinite even with Welder (usually possible in 1v1 but against 3 players).
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Purphoros is great in pretty much every mono-red list (with exceptions), because it gets extra value out of something we're all already doing a lot of (having things enter the battlefield).
dnLL: A lot of people are less concerned with creatures. I'm sure some people resent their Pandemonium killing them that one time, too. It being x-sided instead of one-sided is a pretty big downside, though it being a 4-drop made up for it (because Surge is 6).
Though, I think if any deck is going to play both, it's Norin, and Norin should. All you're doing is abusing creatures entering the battlefield, so you might as well have as many ways to abuse that as possible.
In other decks, well, it's more cut-and-dry. Purphoros is the best in Krenko, and borderline the only playable one of the three (Pandemonium, Surge, Purphoros) because it's both on-curve and not going to act as removal for my vital creatures when my opponent plays a fatty.
Well said. Pandemonium is x-sided yeah, you need some great political skills when playing more than one opponent (1v1 this is easy, Norin blinking every turn makes it worth itself).
I'm playing Wurmcoil Engine if my life is an issue (and it has great synergy with the whole deck) but yeah, once your opponents put you < 5 life with Pandemonium, you are in deep trouble.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Nowhere near this for me, Norin blinks every turn of every player (assuming other players are doing something) and interacts with a lot of cards in the deck.
Purphoros by itself does absolutely nothing if Norin isn't on the battlefield and is easier to kill (not so easy to kill, but let's face it, Norin is really hard to kill).
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Anyway:
For 1RR
Sorcery - Rare
~ Deals 3 damage to all creatures. If any creature dealt damage this way would die this turn, exile it instead.
<3 love it.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Would you like to do 8 virtually unanswerable damage to each player per turn cycle, or would you like to sit there and take in the hate for three turns per cycle?
It's obvious that Norin forgot to be errata'd and reprinted in this set.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
They tried, but it seems he blinked off of the print run.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
"Errata this!" ::zoop!::
That's kind of the point though. Wouldn't it be better to have the card that is destroyed more easily to be your cmdr, so you can have access to it if its destroyed. That and it's cards like the god that are the enablers for norin that make it work. I'm going to test both as cmdrs to see which has better results but I have a feeling purphoros will have a higher success rate.
I really just want to mogg infestation 10 tokens and kill everybody.
You forget:
Siege-gang Commander
Mogg War Marshal
Genesis Chamber
Beetleback Chief
He would trigger off more than just Norin. He would provide redundancy to Warstorm Surge and Pandemonium (if you run it) .
Purphoros - See enemy kill enemy. Due to the nature of the card, you're forced to play highly aggressively with lots of mass token makers in an attempt to kill the enemy before they can kill you. He *will* cause 3v1s simply by casting him without any time to set up a defensive plan. If you're trying to set up a defense with such an obviously aggressive general, you've already lost. You can't play attrition with him.
Norin - Because Norin literally does nothing but enable, you can't zerg rush your foes utilizing the power of your commander. Since you rely on the consistency and resiliency of your 99 to perform, your early game is interesting and your mid/late game incredible. The single best thing you can do with Norin is to persist. Purphoros adds to this with a way to make the ticking stop. Plus, a false God cannot rule a fake one. Duh.
Purphoros will certainly be stronger and more consistent in certain metagames, but truly lacks the ability to adapt to every changing board states. Your win con was declared on turn 1, after all. I'd rather bide my time until the time is right and then crush them with furry mammals and hugs.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I don't even understand why we are having this discussion in this thread. There is a thread for Purphoros as a general and they are not even considering Warstorm Surge in the 99. This is not the same deck at all.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I thought your post was referring to Purphoros's usefulness as one of Norin's 99, not the other way around. My mistake.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
How well could he work in our deck? I've seen many games where he would deal 10 damage to everyone and we have quite a few tricks to re-use his ETB-ability.
I also like Firedrinker Satyr.
Not because he's good for this deck, but he has this "I want to be like Norin"-feeling, as if he's Norin's apprentice or something.
the Satyr isn't good either.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
This.
I suppose since Theros is fully spoiled it's time for a run down of what's playable and what will be included.
Anger of the Gods - If you need an exiling wrath, here you go.
Fanatic of Mogis - If you're playing less tokens and more red permanents, this is an alright option for surprise burst. Past that, it's got no usefulness.
Hammer of Purphoros - Better for those Possibility Storm players. I personally feel the four mana + a land cost of the activated ability is not worth it, as there are other enablers with a much lower cost. The Fervor effect is nice, but unnecessary.
Portent of Betrayal - If you really want act of treason and you really want to scry... I guess.
Purphoros, God of the Forge - It's okay.
Titan of Eternal Fire - Pushing for the human tribal aspect? I think you'll want to burn things. It's still not worth your time, but it's there.
Wild Celebrants - There is a goblin for that. (tm)
Akroan Horse - A wild Troy reference appears! There are some neat tricks you can do with this, but require Confusion in the Ranks. Other than that, does literally nothing. Cute card.
Burnished Hart - Need some basics?
Pyxis of Pandemonium - Now here's something fun. Terrible, but fun. If you really want to do something weird and ineffectual, this is for you.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx - Mountain > crap
Basically, we're getting a God from this set, the rest just aren't good enough.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I giggled.
Purphoros is awesome, almost impossible to handle and does A LOT of damage with Norin. I also tried the Hammer. I disagree with you Gaka when you say that his ability is not worth it. Late game, turning every lands into 3/3s with haste isn't bad at all, and if you have any enchantment on the field (Warstorm Surge, Purphoros or Confusion), it becomes really good. Haste is a nice plus too, we only have Chieftain and Anger.
I don't say it will make the final cut (it probably won't, and I don't see how it really helps with Possibility Storm, Fervor is a pure enchantment and better for the Storm as you usually prefer to hit enchantments), but it's still good overall.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.