The problem isn't about the lands triggering Possibility Storm (they don't). The problem is more about playing Wurmcoil Engine and then flip a land as an artifact. More over, because of the way Possibility Storm is actually written, you may CAST the card but not PLAY it, which means that if you reveal (exile) an artifact land with it after playing an artifact, you won't be able to do anything except putting it back to the bottom of the library with your original spell.
I'm playing 23 non-land artifacts. Considering the artifact I'm actually playing with Possibility Storm out and considering I will already have at least one or two artifacts out, playing 2 artifact lands in the deck makes about 2 cards we don't want to see out of ~20 when playing an artifact with Storm out. That's about a 10% chance to blank your spell. It's too much. Even 5% is a lot, but I still play the Citadel as I said for the Welder and the Confusion.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
The problem isn't about the lands triggering Possibility Storm (they don't). The problem is more about playing Wurmcoil Engine and then flip a land as an artifact. More over, because of the way Possibility Storm is actually written, you may CAST the card but not PLAY it, which means that if you reveal (exile) an artifact land with it after playing an artifact, you won't be able to do anything except putting it back to the bottom of the library with your original spell.
I'm playing 23 non-land artifacts. Considering the artifact I'm actually playing with Possibility Storm out and considering I will already have at least one or two artifacts out, playing 2 artifact lands in the deck makes about 2 cards we don't want to see out of ~20 when playing an artifact with Storm out. That's about a 10% chance to blank your spell. It's too much. Even 5% is a lot, but I still play the Citadel as I said for the Welder and the Confusion.
Ohh I see. That's actually pretty well thought out.
I'll keep running both of mine, since I feel trading them for stuff with Confusion outweighs that con, but that's also because I run fewer artifacts in my list.
Thanks for the tip, I never even thought of it that way!
If you run fewer artifacts in your list, artifacts start to be really bad with Storm as your chances to hit one of those land is higher.
However, I understand how artifact lands are good with Confusion but I will stay at 1 for the moment, I can hope to hit it with all the Wheel of Fortune effects (or Teferi's Puzzle Box) if I really need to exchange a land.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
speaking about lands, it just occurred to me that alara's panoramas can be a budget replacement for fetchlands.
i'm playing also an expedition map, which usually gets me valakut, maze of ith and madblind mountain.
Springjack Pasture is finally what I decided to try. With Trading Post, Warp Wold and Confusion in the Ranks, I think that token generation is important. We don't have a lot of tutor in this deck so a lot of recursively won't do anything bad to the list.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I thought about it but I think it's a slightly worse Ruination. It's good and I do see reasons to play it. Price of Glory would be good too without the Fork package I guess.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I thought about it but I think it's a slightly worse Ruination. It's good and I do see reasons to play it. Price of Glory would be good too without the Fork package I guess.
Price of Glory is absurd, it completely shut out our Vendilion Clique player last weekend for Star Magic. It's an awesome blue hate card, and good against a lot of other stuff too
Springjack Pasture is finally what I decided to try. With Trading Post, Warp Wold and Confusion in the Ranks, I think that token generation is important. We don't have a lot of tutor in this deck so a lot of recursively won't do anything bad to the list.
i tried that, found out i never got to activate it, it's too costly for a token.
i tried that, found out i never got to activate it, it's too costly for a token.
Depends of the situation, when you have Caged Sun or one of the Gauntlet out, there is nothing left too expansive. It chump blocks forever for 4-mana, it produces additional mana the turn after, it adds permanent count for Warp World, it exchanges creature with Confusion in the Ranks. Kher Keep is obviously amazing for it's low cost and it does most of the interaction we need, but I don't play Expedition Map (no Maze of Ith for me neither) so as I said, I think recursivity in this spot is great, with the added ability to also produce mana when you only have 4-5 and need to cast that Warp World or Warstorm Surge. It worked out pretty well yesterday, I will see in the long run if it still does, and if not, I will try another utility land.
Madblind Mountain is no use at all in the list I'm actually running (except shuffling back cards put on the bottom of the deck with Terminus for example but it doesn't deserve an ETB-tapped land for that, but that's probably just because I don't play Sensei's Divining Top either).
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
speaking about lands, it just occurred to me that alara's panoramas can be a budget replacement for fetchlands.
i'm playing also an expedition map, which usually gets me valakut, maze of ith and madblind mountain.
Expedition Map is pretty rad in red. It's able to be recurred, and gives you access to your land "toolbox". I like it. It shines in the early game, and that's most of the game for me.
i cut a land for the expedition map. anyway, since i'm playing scroll rack and sensei's, i need to maximize the deck shuffles. as long as i don't have fetchlands in the deck (and madblind mountain to be fetched), panoramas and thawing glaciers it is.
It depends on how many shuffle effects you're running elsewise to weather Madblind Mountain will be a boon or subpar.
With all the wheels and tutors, as well as the fetches, I don't think it's worth running.
It's possible without the fetchlands (which are four whole shuffles) it could be nicer. Also - the fact it can be fetched is largely irrelevant. If I have a fetchland, I'm already getting the shuffle effect I need and I'd like to get red mana out of it, too.
I'm playing mostly only Mountains in this deck except for a really few utility lands. Not enough to give Expedition Map a spot, but I easily see another list that could run it with some nicer toolbox lands (maybe without Ruination and about ~16-18 basic lands only).
But the Map as great synergy with Goblin Welder and can be pitched to Possibility Storm too. If you play Maze of Ith, Cavern of Souls and Boseiju (for Warp World), I guess this is way worth it (but I don't, I only play Cavern because I feel like playing Kiki-Jiki as the commander sometimes but this is it).
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
It depends on how many shuffle effects you're running elsewise to weather Madblind Mountain will be a boon or subpar.
With all the wheels and tutors, as well as the fetches, I don't think it's worth running.
It's possible without the fetchlands (which are four whole shuffles) it could be nicer. Also - the fact it can be fetched is largely irrelevant. If I have a fetchland, I'm already getting the shuffle effect I need and I'd like to get red mana out of it, too.
consider i run scroll rack too, so the shuffles are really useful, and the plays with crucible of worlds. i'll be testing soon with panoramas, using them as normal lands and only fetching to get a shuffle or as a mana sink eot.
Any consideration for Radiate? Against Beast Within or with Chaos Warp... looks funny and chaotic. Good with every spot removal played by opponents. Good with targeted draws/extra turns. Good with Act of Treason too (I don't play it because I prefer the Split Second version World of Seizing but still want to mention it).
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Well, it seems like there is no love for Radiate here.
I finally removed Helm of Possession, I think it does too little in the gameplan, it's 4+2 mana and if it's destroyed, the creature go back to its owner. I decided to try Mindslaver instead, some may not like it but with Goblin Welder it easily goes infinite and it's alone a good card when we have some extra mana to spend (and this deck has a lot with the 2 Gauntlet and the Caged Sun).
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Outside of locking your opponent out in 1v1, I don't see how Mindslaver goes infinite with Goblin Welder. Can you explain?
I'm playing Radiate in my list, and it's been interesting. I tried to cast it on an Ancestral Vision the other night, but it got countered because the mono-blue player doesn't like playing against Norin.
There was another game where I cast Wild Ricochet to steal Ancestral Vision from the Maelstrom Wanderer player. That was fun.
Well in 1v1 it's obviously pretty easy, but let's say you have any artifact producer on the battlefield like Genesis Chamber or even just Wurmcoil Engine (it's 3 artifacts for 1). In 1v1 it's obviously easy, you can do the Welder thing on every of your turn stealing your opponent's turn. In a 3 players game, it's also okay, you need Mindslaver already on the battlefield, you activate it on one of your opponent, then bring it back with Welder, activate it again on the other opponent, and at that point you should be okay to win this game.
4 players, you will have one player still playing except if you also have Kiki-Jiki on the field or Conjurer's Closet with some way to give your Welder haste (Anger or Goblin Chieftain). Anyway, there are a lot of ways.
Still want to hear a little bit more about Radiate, I think the interaction with Chaos Warp or opponent's Beast Within is just crazy, while it's also okay against targetted draws/extra turns.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
We need a goblin that taps for red mana by the way, it would help so much to be able to fetch it when needed.
Skirk Prospector just isn't enough good, sacrifying goblins to play Warp World is counter-productive. Wizards really need to design a goblin that taps for mana.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
We need a goblin that taps for red mana by the way, it would help so much to be able to fetch it when needed.
Skirk Prospector just isn't enough good, sacrifying goblins to play Warp World is counter-productive. Wizards really need to design a goblin that taps for mana.
1/1 for 3 mana that taps for Red and do 1 damage to its controller when tapped. Something that bad, with Goblin creature type (or changeling). Would be perfect for this deck but wouldn't change legacy or vintage really.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
This would be okay too. Maybe adding 3 for a Mountain like we already have for the Forest sacrifice. I don't care about the cmc of that goblin, 3-4 is okay, tutorable with Imperial Recruiter or Moggcatcher anyway (+ ramps a lot with Kiki-Jiki).
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I'm assuming you're already using Iron Myr? It's tutorable with Imperial Recruiter, Gamble, and Hoarding Dragon (if you use it). I'm using Hoarding Dragon because I'm too cheap to buy Recruiter, and too chicken to proxy it.
How about Krark-Clan Stoker? Any artifact that's sacrificed could be recurred with Goblin Welder, it's a goblin, and it can be found with Imperial Recruiter.
Has anyone tried Mad Prophet over Viashino Racketeer? I feel Prophet is stronger because it doesn't require Conjurer's Closet to be reused. It can even be used twice in a single turn if Closet is on the field.
I'm playing 23 non-land artifacts. Considering the artifact I'm actually playing with Possibility Storm out and considering I will already have at least one or two artifacts out, playing 2 artifact lands in the deck makes about 2 cards we don't want to see out of ~20 when playing an artifact with Storm out. That's about a 10% chance to blank your spell. It's too much. Even 5% is a lot, but I still play the Citadel as I said for the Welder and the Confusion.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Ohh I see. That's actually pretty well thought out.
I'll keep running both of mine, since I feel trading them for stuff with Confusion outweighs that con, but that's also because I run fewer artifacts in my list.
Thanks for the tip, I never even thought of it that way!
However, I understand how artifact lands are good with Confusion but I will stay at 1 for the moment, I can hope to hit it with all the Wheel of Fortune effects (or Teferi's Puzzle Box) if I really need to exchange a land.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
i'm playing also an expedition map, which usually gets me valakut, maze of ith and madblind mountain.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I thought about it but I think it's a slightly worse Ruination. It's good and I do see reasons to play it. Price of Glory would be good too without the Fork package I guess.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Price of Glory is absurd, it completely shut out our Vendilion Clique player last weekend for Star Magic. It's an awesome blue hate card, and good against a lot of other stuff too
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i tried that, found out i never got to activate it, it's too costly for a token.
Depends of the situation, when you have Caged Sun or one of the Gauntlet out, there is nothing left too expansive. It chump blocks forever for 4-mana, it produces additional mana the turn after, it adds permanent count for Warp World, it exchanges creature with Confusion in the Ranks. Kher Keep is obviously amazing for it's low cost and it does most of the interaction we need, but I don't play Expedition Map (no Maze of Ith for me neither) so as I said, I think recursivity in this spot is great, with the added ability to also produce mana when you only have 4-5 and need to cast that Warp World or Warstorm Surge. It worked out pretty well yesterday, I will see in the long run if it still does, and if not, I will try another utility land.
Madblind Mountain is no use at all in the list I'm actually running (except shuffling back cards put on the bottom of the deck with Terminus for example but it doesn't deserve an ETB-tapped land for that, but that's probably just because I don't play Sensei's Divining Top either).
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Expedition Map is pretty rad in red. It's able to be recurred, and gives you access to your land "toolbox". I like it. It shines in the early game, and that's most of the game for me.
With all the wheels and tutors, as well as the fetches, I don't think it's worth running.
It's possible without the fetchlands (which are four whole shuffles) it could be nicer. Also - the fact it can be fetched is largely irrelevant. If I have a fetchland, I'm already getting the shuffle effect I need and I'd like to get red mana out of it, too.
But the Map as great synergy with Goblin Welder and can be pitched to Possibility Storm too. If you play Maze of Ith, Cavern of Souls and Boseiju (for Warp World), I guess this is way worth it (but I don't, I only play Cavern because I feel like playing Kiki-Jiki as the commander sometimes but this is it).
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
consider i run scroll rack too, so the shuffles are really useful, and the plays with crucible of worlds. i'll be testing soon with panoramas, using them as normal lands and only fetching to get a shuffle or as a mana sink eot.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I finally removed Helm of Possession, I think it does too little in the gameplan, it's 4+2 mana and if it's destroyed, the creature go back to its owner. I decided to try Mindslaver instead, some may not like it but with Goblin Welder it easily goes infinite and it's alone a good card when we have some extra mana to spend (and this deck has a lot with the 2 Gauntlet and the Caged Sun).
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I'm playing Radiate in my list, and it's been interesting. I tried to cast it on an Ancestral Vision the other night, but it got countered because the mono-blue player doesn't like playing against Norin.
There was another game where I cast Wild Ricochet to steal Ancestral Vision from the Maelstrom Wanderer player. That was fun.
4 players, you will have one player still playing except if you also have Kiki-Jiki on the field or Conjurer's Closet with some way to give your Welder haste (Anger or Goblin Chieftain). Anyway, there are a lot of ways.
Still want to hear a little bit more about Radiate, I think the interaction with Chaos Warp or opponent's Beast Within is just crazy, while it's also okay against targetted draws/extra turns.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Skirk Prospector just isn't enough good, sacrifying goblins to play Warp World is counter-productive. Wizards really need to design a goblin that taps for mana.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Goblin Clearcutter. It doesn't work here, but hey.
Also Orcish Lumberjack. It's close.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
With my two examples, it might be likely to get some kind of "Sacrifice a Mountain, T: Add RR to your mana pool" goblin.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
How about Krark-Clan Stoker? Any artifact that's sacrificed could be recurred with Goblin Welder, it's a goblin, and it can be found with Imperial Recruiter.
Has anyone tried Mad Prophet over Viashino Racketeer? I feel Prophet is stronger because it doesn't require Conjurer's Closet to be reused. It can even be used twice in a single turn if Closet is on the field.