I changed my Norin to a Purphoros list in the past, and that version was relying more heavily on going wide, with cards like Snake Basket and Tempt with Vengeance. Moreover, I personally think Purphoros is, while undoubtedly more powerful, the more standard an frankly kind of dull option.
I don't much like the lotus for Norin. I have around 15 commander decks right now and considering it only for the decks that either want the commander out as quickly as possible (Azusa, Lost but Seeking, for example) or rely heavily on it to be on the battlefield (Rasputin Dreamweaver). That, plus the fact that I don't think it's often good enough to be run in decks with three or more colors, means that there's about four decks that it might be good in and I'm sure as hell not spending over a hundred euros to find that out. As an example: I have a K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth deck that meets both requirements (want it out early and need to stay), and it will resemble a Dark Ritual very much in that list - and that's not one of the better cards in the deck.
TLDR: I'm not stoked.
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A hobby is by defenition something you're not any good at - otherwise it'd have been your work. Magic is my biggest hobby so I mustn't be very good at it.
So I've been playing Norin almost exclusively ever since I found Gaka's post way back in 2010. First commander deck I built with just piles of random red cards I had in my collection. Deck has gone through many, MANY, changes but this is the list I've been using for awhile now and I am very happy with it. Past couple years have really shaken up the build with some of the awesome cards they've been printing (Torbran, Underworld Breach, Wheel of Misfortune, DOCKSIDE just to name a few).
Purphoros has always been the way more powerful alternative, but it's also obnoxious to play against for your friends. Norin is an active downgrade in power to get a more innocent looking fun commander, that has some weird synergies.
Jeska's Will seems pretty good. It's card draw and (temporary) mana in one.
Horizon Stone is also kind of interesting for the big mana decks.
Ingenuity Engine also does seem kind of interesting. 7 mana is a lot, but it also ensures, that it hits pretty much anything with cascade. The activated ability is definitely very desireable.
Forsaken Monument - Great card for the deck. Interacts quite well with a lot of other cards, despite being on the high-mana side of things.
Lithoform Engine - I'm torn on this card. I like Rings-style cards, but this feels just slightly too costly for its effect not happening more than once per turn.
Coercive Recruiter - Comparable to Zealous Conscripts. Worth consideration.
Dargo, the Shipwrecker - I mean, it is just a beefy dude, but it's very easy for it to be a 1 mana 7/5 with trample.
Emberwilde Captain - Monarch is kinda whatever for me, but I'm going into the red zone a bit more often so I'm not entirely opposed to considering this card.
Toggo, Goblin Weaponsmith - I feel like this card fits really well into what we want to do in the deck.
Wheel of Misfortune - I wish this card was better than it is. As is, I like the idea of it, but the most effective usage bothers me. I sorta feel obligated to test it if and when I next get a real game going.
Horizon Stone - Not nearly as effective as Leyline Tyrant. Worth consideration, but I think it's a little too do-nothing/win-more for its cost.
Ingenuity Engine - It's okay. At 7 mana, it's unlikely to be as worthwhile as I'd like, but it's worth consideration when going wide.
War Room - Decent consideration. Red decks like this one can use the draw, and this is one of the first lands where the cost/effect ratio might be worth it. That said, it's going to be hard to slot it in given the already present issues with lack of coloured mana. I'll see where I go on this. For now, picking one up to at least consider testing.
From Commander Legends, I'd really want to give Wheel of Misfortune a shot. More wheel effects definitely seems worth it. Also, reading it again the way you put it Osie, Flamekin Herald is really the way I want to go with Norin. Having a shot at a Wheel of Fate (but not being certain you'll hit it) is exactly what I want to achieve in Norin. The other ones I'm considering are War Room (card draw is still an issue in my opinion) and Jeska's Will - the latter feels like a red 'intuitive' ponder in most cases I think.
Also, I got my hands on a Lithoform Engine recently and I'm tempted to try it out in Norin. Seems like there will be enough decent options to copy for us.
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A hobby is by defenition something you're not any good at - otherwise it'd have been your work. Magic is my biggest hobby so I mustn't be very good at it.
From Commander Legends, I'd really want to give Wheel of Misfortune a shot. More wheel effects definitely seems worth it. Also, reading it again the way you put it Osie, Flamekin Herald is really the way I want to go with Norin. Having a shot at a Wheel of Fate (but not being certain you'll hit it) is exactly what I want to achieve in Norin. The other ones I'm considering are War Room (card draw is still an issue in my opinion) and Jeska's Will - the latter feels like a red 'intuitive' ponder in most cases I think.
Also, I got my hands on a Lithoform Engine recently and I'm tempted to try it out in Norin. Seems like there will be enough decent options to copy for us.
The moxen are also a benefit to it.
As for the Lithoform, I think it's not as good as Rings of Brighthearth and/or Strionic Resonator. The CMC is slightly too high for what it is. The spell ability is irrelephant and the permanent ability is mostly irrelephant.
Hi osie, what does your deck look like now? How does this deck stack up nowadays to say a high power casual group? I haven't touched this deck since around 2015 with a gobin focused build, and I'm thinking of updating it.
Hi osie, what does your deck look like now? How does this deck stack up nowadays to say a high power casual group? I haven't touched this deck since around 2015 with a gobin focused build, and I'm thinking of updating it.
I have yet to pick up the Commander Legends cards. Flamekin Herald is exciting.
I don't get to play very often any more; I'd love to have more opportunities to play via webcam...
Need to get Rings of Brighthearth back in the deck for realsies just because it's SO good. Also, want to increase my creature count again, by 1-2 slots.
Feldon always feels a little slow for me. Gadrak is not as exciting as I hoped. Relic is less necessary with Scavenger Grounds in the deck. Mind Stone is the least likely of these to disappear, but is a consideration I've had in the past. Gauntlet of Power just feels not very helpful when it comes up given the usefulness of the other two nowadays. Flameshadow Conjuring is very win-more in my experience with it.
I've had a bit of mana irregularity from the last games I remember, so I may ponder some fixes for that, particularly involving damage or draw.
When/why did grip of chaos and planar chaos fall out of favor? Those were some of my favorite cards in the deck but it seems like they got cut.
osieorb18 is not Gaka, the OP, but one of the main folks still running a variant of the list and maintaining presence in this thread. Gaka's been gone some time now. Grip of Chaos and Planar Chaos as disruption enchantments were necessary in Gaka's meta at the time he was maintaining this thread, but most other folks running a variant of the list don't need them for their meta or they would be too oppressive or disruptive to their own plan.
Edit: This forum has a way to search the thread for keywords - you'll probably be able to find discussion about those cards and what reasons others cut them.
I for one am still running both grip of chaos and planar chaos. They're two of the stronger red control cards, along with Blood Moon and possibly Stranglehold. In my meta, enchantment removal is still not really present, even though it's become pretty tuned. Norin is no longer one of the stronger decks, but still one of the more fun decks to play and although it's a bit more chaosy than your average deck, it's still pretty well-respected. And every now and then, it does some really powerful stuff.
When I get the chance, I'll post my most recent build. I've been updating it regularly now for years and recently rebuilt it from scratch.
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A hobby is by defenition something you're not any good at - otherwise it'd have been your work. Magic is my biggest hobby so I mustn't be very good at it.
I for one am still running both grip of chaos and planar chaos. They're two of the stronger red control cards, along with Blood Moon and possibly Stranglehold. In my meta, enchantment removal is still not really present, even though it's become pretty tuned. Norin is no longer one of the stronger decks, but still one of the more fun decks to play and although it's a bit more chaosy than your average deck, it's still pretty well-respected. And every now and then, it does some really powerful stuff.
When I get the chance, I'll post my most recent build. I've been updating it regularly now for years and recently rebuilt it from scratch.
I'd definitely be interested in seeing your list when you find the time
When/why did grip of chaos and planar chaos fall out of favor? Those were some of my favorite cards in the deck but it seems like they got cut.
Grip of Chaos doesn't do enough immediately for its cost for my build. Planar Chaos impedes my own plan too much for not having effective ways to ignore it.
Wheel is okay. A bit win-more. Jeska's Will is cool, though it must be the first spell you cast.
Any thoughts on Jeweled Lotus?
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TLDR: I'm not stoked.
Never posted on Salvation before so I don't know how format a decklist on here, but please check it out at https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/current-norin-1/ and let me know what y'all think!
Jeska's Will seems pretty good. It's card draw and (temporary) mana in one.
Wheel of Misfortune is definitely a nice budget alternative to Wheel of Fortune.
Horizon Stone is also kind of interesting for the big mana decks.
Ingenuity Engine also does seem kind of interesting. 7 mana is a lot, but it also ensures, that it hits pretty much anything with cascade. The activated ability is definitely very desireable.
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)
My Commander Decks
Ink-Treader Nephilim & Norin & Horobi & Okaun/Zndrsplt
My Modern Decks
Lantern Control & Thopter Foundry Combo
Commander Legends Review:
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Also, I got my hands on a Lithoform Engine recently and I'm tempted to try it out in Norin. Seems like there will be enough decent options to copy for us.
The moxen are also a benefit to it.
As for the Lithoform, I think it's not as good as Rings of Brighthearth and/or Strionic Resonator. The CMC is slightly too high for what it is. The spell ability is irrelephant and the permanent ability is mostly irrelephant.
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I have yet to pick up the Commander Legends cards. Flamekin Herald is exciting.
I don't get to play very often any more; I'd love to have more opportunities to play via webcam...
Current Decklist:
1 Norin the Wary
Creatures (24):
1 Goblin Welder
1 Goblin Engineer
1 Iron Myr
1 Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
1 Smuggler's Copter
1 Feldon of the Third Path
1 Gadrak, the Crown-Scourge
1 Grinning Ignus
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Squee, the Immortal
1 Hellrider
1 Leyline Tyrant
1 Ogre Battledriver
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Terror of the Peaks
1 Zealous Conscripts
1 Moraug, Fury of Akoum
1 Myr Battlesphere
Artifacts (20):
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Amber
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sensei's Divining TOp
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
1 Springleaf Drum
1 Genesis Chamber
1 Mind Stone
1 Cloudstone Curio
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Honor-Worn Shaku
1 Inspiring Statuary
1 Skyclave Relic
1 Gauntlet of Might
1 Panharmonicon
1 Trading Post
1 Forsaken Monument
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Memory Jar
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Impact Tremors
1 Underworld Breach
1 Blood Moon
1 Valakut Exploration
1 Flameshadow Conjuring
1 Confusion in the Ranks
Planeswalkers (5):
1 Chandra, Acolyte of Flame
1 Chandra, Fire Artisan
1 Daretti, Scrap Savant
1 Ugin, the Ineffable
1 Karn Liberated
Instants (1):
1 Chaos Warp
Sorceries (8):
1 Wheel of Fate
1 Faithless Looting
1 Gamble
1 Shattering Spree
1 Tempt with Vengeance
1 Vandalblast
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Blasphemous Act
Lands (34):
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Buried Ruin
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Field of the Dead
1 Flamekin Village
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Haunted Fengraf
1 High Market
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Kher Keep
1 Prismatic Vista
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scavenger Grounds
15 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Strip Mine
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Wasteland
1 Wooded Foothills
Need to get Rings of Brighthearth back in the deck for realsies just because it's SO good. Also, want to increase my creature count again, by 1-2 slots.
Planning to pick up Flamekin Herald and probably Toggo, Goblin Weaponsmith, along with Tome of Legends and Mox Opal.
Probably cutting Field of the Dead for a Snow-Covered Mountain.
On the shortlist to consider cutting:
1 Gadrak, the Crown-Scourge
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Mind Stone
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Flameshadow Conjuring
Feldon always feels a little slow for me. Gadrak is not as exciting as I hoped. Relic is less necessary with Scavenger Grounds in the deck. Mind Stone is the least likely of these to disappear, but is a consideration I've had in the past. Gauntlet of Power just feels not very helpful when it comes up given the usefulness of the other two nowadays. Flameshadow Conjuring is very win-more in my experience with it.
I've had a bit of mana irregularity from the last games I remember, so I may ponder some fixes for that, particularly involving damage or draw.
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Only if the player is strong enough (as has always been the case for Norin).
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old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
All of which are probably worth it?
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Edit: This forum has a way to search the thread for keywords - you'll probably be able to find discussion about those cards and what reasons others cut them.
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
When I get the chance, I'll post my most recent build. I've been updating it regularly now for years and recently rebuilt it from scratch.
I'd definitely be interested in seeing your list when you find the time
Grip of Chaos doesn't do enough immediately for its cost for my build. Planar Chaos impedes my own plan too much for not having effective ways to ignore it.
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