Mana Echoes usually kicks in most powerfully at the upkeep and end steps, when i dont really care for the mana. The mana doublers work just fine so far though!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Never played aganinst a Norin deck. After reading this I really don't want to.
A sentiment echo'd by many
NPH update!
-Gilded Lotus
+Caged Sun
A smaller amount of mana ramp for a larger one seems good.
-Risky Move
+Everflowing Chalice
Fixing a slight mana issue. The curve increased last time without any mana ramp being added. Here we go!
-Boseiju, who shelter's all
+Kher Keep
More tokens for a card that's use has become diminished of late as my playgroups have started dropping counters from their decks.... so Warp World doesnt molest them as hard.
So I got to hang out with Ubershaum's playgroup a few weeks ago, and he let me pilot his version of your Norin the Wary deck in a 6-player game of Emperor. As the left "general" matched up against a manascrewed Ubershaum, this deck really got to shine, featuring such fun plays as:
2. Casting Incendiary Command to blow up a land and wipe his field of mana dorks;
3. Resolving Ruination to ruinate his day further;
4. Topdecking into Strip Mine + Crucible of Worlds to make sure this side of the table does absolutely nothing. Norin serves as a distraction by blinking in and out the whole time.
Ok so I have built about 90% of the deck, and ive noticed 2 things in playing lately. We have been playing "spheres" where you can only attack a certain direction, and when I sat next to Doran good stuff, I got absolutly rocked. My best attempt for the match was to warp world to try and buy some time. Anything we can do about aggro? And I ended up warp worlding 3 times today, and it just didnt seem to get me where I needed to go. Thoughts?
There are several options to defeat aggro with this deck. Thankfully, not many play dedicated aggro around here, so it has been less of an issue for me.
Option A. Smoke. Penalize them for attacking en-masse. Coupled with Urabrask - you can really screw opponent creature based strategies.
Option B. Crawlspace/Silent Arbiter. These force aggro players to only dish out the harm one at a time. It is less effective vs General focused aggro.
Option C. Chain Reaction. Love me some sweepers - here's one that is perfectly tuned to our token hordes. It's the same thing as a damnation if you're doing 15-odd damage to everything.
Option D.
More Burn. This option is less effective if you plan to have fun with Warp World, but ensures that you'll have an answer to any minion that dares to attack the Great and Powerful Norin.
Other options include Ensnaring Bridge (crap vs Doran) and just plain old fashioned begging for mercy.
How about Chaos Orb? It's enchantment removal for red (or any permanent removal for that matter) that doesn't require you to "target" anything, so it's in-sync with Grip of Chaos and since it's an artifact it can be recurred with Goblin Welder.
I don't actually have a good reason for not including SDT. So i will make one up:
I don't have a Sensei's Divining Top in the deck because a turtle lit my collection on fire.
Chaos Orb - If my playgroups were fine with letting these so called "manual dexterity" cards into our games, then if i had a spare $70 i might consider getting one. But at the moment, it's not worth tracking one down.
It might be kind of fun, and if it lands on someone it would probably be entertaining to try and put them in the graveyard. What's that gun for?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
How about Chaos Orb? It's enchantment removal for red (or any permanent removal for that matter) that doesn't require you to "target" anything, so it's in-sync with Grip of Chaos and since it's an artifact it can be recurred with Goblin Welder.
Wow, maybe I've just been fortunate within my playgroups. I run it often in my decks because it can answer so many issues for the player who has a good flip .
Not to trump you, Partisan, but I just could not find the clause that bans Chaos Orb in the EDH format. I hope that it doesn't exist, because then my Red Deck will be in a small state of crisis! lol.
But, nonetheless, pending that Chaos Orb is accepted within the playgroup, I could totally see Chaos Orb being a great conversation piece in a deck like this one - especially now that red has an answer to Night of Souls' Betrayal and other enchantments like it that could totally ruin Norin.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Before all else, be armed." -Machiavelli
"Before all else, leave UU untapped." -Ringo
Current EDH Builds: G Azuza, Lost but Seeking R Heartless Hidetsugu
The cutting of these two is long overdue. I honestly can't say i've wanted to cast IWW before anything else in my deck. It's just a winmore card, nothing more and nothing less, though yes - you can do some absolutely nutty things with it.
Rimescale i havent had it stick on the board longer than a turn for far too long, i'd rather deal with my target now than let it come back with a vengeance later. Kavu does that well.
Fun Fact with SDT-
With Confusion out, you basically get to steal an artifact for 1 every turn without losing ANYTHING. Hell yea! Thanks, Ringo!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
I saw someone at our local shop abuse Honor-Worn Shaku with Norin to pump extra mana out of it, looked pretty nice in combination to his mind's eye
I know you only have Norin to untap it, because Kiki jiki well... (Edit; Also Krark's Thumb )
Anyway, free mana is always nice?
I saw someone at our local shop abuse Honor-Worn Shaku with Norin to pump extra mana out of it, looked pretty nice in combination to his mind's eye
I know you only have Norin to untap it, because Kiki jiki well...
Anyway, free mana is always nice?
Th...this is a good idea!
It is, in fact, a better ramper than Darksteel ingot. Since i'm mono colored - the extra red doesnt really matter to me - the only thing going for it is that it is indestructible.
It's also a good reason to possibly look at Mind's Eye again.
But then . . . oh, but . . . which means . . . which would lead to . . . exactly!
--------
Holy Norin! The first game i tested it in, Honor-Worn Shaku overperformed, doing some insanely crazy ramping. It takes over the slot without issues.
I've just added a second artifact destructor in Manic Vandal, which while not repeatable, helps combat nasty artifacts that the Viashino could deal with as well. I dont happen to own one, but it's a solid option.
Utility i just dont need. I do like Top more than ball simply due to its synergy with Confusion in the Ranks, and i dont feel like i need a second copy. Folio just sucks.
Hoarding Dragon ? (is it really useful enough? What do you typically dig for - Krark's thumb?)
I like the dragon, it's a good way to get an artifact into my hand that gets crazy with Kikijiki. Once wizards prints a straight up artifact tutor for red (that doesnt involve draggins) I will probably replace it.
Outrage Shaman is a strict upgrade from Flametongue Kavu. Obvious upgrade is obvious.
Hellion Eruption has turned into a win-more bomb. While it's friggin awesome to cast, i dont want to play something just because it's awesome. (Or Draco would be in the deck)
Shattering Pulse and Smash got replaced. One by a creature and one by a more easily recurrable one. This helps Warp World hit more targets.
Gauntlet of Power i've been meaning to cut since i got Caged Sun. Caged's suns reading of "any lands" instead of just basics means i get more mana under a moon effect, which is good.
New Norin friendly accelerants!
Moggcatcher - once i untap with it, it's like playing with Captain Sisay, only better. Glad i added it.
Mind's Eye - i was looking for another draw engine, and iWumbo gave the perfect solution - so here you are!
Enjoy!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Recently i played a game with this deck that involved Murasa and a starting grip with two flare effects. After insane ramping my opponent managed to planeswalk into The Eon Fog.. i laughed hard, more ways to abuse Norin!
You're either getting crazy mana with goblins or you're doing it with Myr tokens.
I'm also interested in your Lyzolda list. Perhaps another mini-primer?
I sent you a pm asking for it too
I will post it soon!
Mana Echoes usually kicks in most powerfully at the upkeep and end steps, when i dont really care for the mana. The mana doublers work just fine so far though!
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I liked your Q&A section funny stuff.
A sentiment echo'd by many
NPH update!
-Gilded Lotus
+Caged Sun
A smaller amount of mana ramp for a larger one seems good.
-Risky Move
+Everflowing Chalice
Fixing a slight mana issue. The curve increased last time without any mana ramp being added. Here we go!
-Boseiju, who shelter's all
+Kher Keep
More tokens for a card that's use has become diminished of late as my playgroups have started dropping counters from their decks.... so Warp World doesnt molest them as hard.
Lyzolda's Angry Horde of Little Girls*
^^^^^^^^^
The Lyzolda deck
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
1. Going to town with Sword of Feast and Famine against his Rhys the Exiled deck;
2. Casting Incendiary Command to blow up a land and wipe his field of mana dorks;
3. Resolving Ruination to ruinate his day further;
4. Topdecking into Strip Mine + Crucible of Worlds to make sure this side of the table does absolutely nothing. Norin serves as a distraction by blinking in and out the whole time.
Hilarious!
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
lichess.org | chess.com
Option A.
Smoke. Penalize them for attacking en-masse. Coupled with Urabrask - you can really screw opponent creature based strategies.
Option B.
Crawlspace/Silent Arbiter. These force aggro players to only dish out the harm one at a time. It is less effective vs General focused aggro.
Option C.
Chain Reaction. Love me some sweepers - here's one that is perfectly tuned to our token hordes. It's the same thing as a damnation if you're doing 15-odd damage to everything.
Option D.
More Burn. This option is less effective if you plan to have fun with Warp World, but ensures that you'll have an answer to any minion that dares to attack the Great and Powerful Norin.
Other options include Ensnaring Bridge (crap vs Doran) and just plain old fashioned begging for mercy.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I've got a question and a suggestion for you.
Question:
Why no Sensei's Divining Top? Is it because there's not enough room? Do the Scrying Sheets do the job for you? (just wondering)
Suggestion:
How about Chaos Orb? It's enchantment removal for red (or any permanent removal for that matter) that doesn't require you to "target" anything, so it's in-sync with Grip of Chaos and since it's an artifact it can be recurred with Goblin Welder.
I run Chaos Orb and Capricious Efreet in my Heartless Hidetsugu deck to deal with enchantments, and it works like an absolute charm.
(Plus its fun to flip the card in the air and destroy like 5-6 lands for one mana.)
"Before all else, leave UU untapped." -Ringo
Current EDH Builds:
G Azuza, Lost but Seeking
R Heartless Hidetsugu
I don't have a Sensei's Divining Top in the deck because a turtle lit my collection on fire.
Chaos Orb - If my playgroups were fine with letting these so called "manual dexterity" cards into our games, then if i had a spare $70 i might consider getting one. But at the moment, it's not worth tracking one down.
It might be kind of fun, and if it lands on someone it would probably be entertaining to try and put them in the graveyard. What's that gun for?
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I love chaos orb, sadly it is banned in edh. My beta one just gathers dust lately:/
http://mtgcommander.net/rules.php
"Before all else, leave UU untapped." -Ringo
Current EDH Builds:
G Azuza, Lost but Seeking
R Heartless Hidetsugu
Like smashing face? Like not worrying about pitiful tokens or life gain? Check out Stonebrow, Krosan Hero for all your face smashing needs
Not to trump you, Partisan, but I just could not find the clause that bans Chaos Orb in the EDH format. I hope that it doesn't exist, because then my Red Deck will be in a small state of crisis! lol.
But, nonetheless, pending that Chaos Orb is accepted within the playgroup, I could totally see Chaos Orb being a great conversation piece in a deck like this one - especially now that red has an answer to Night of Souls' Betrayal and other enchantments like it that could totally ruin Norin.
"Before all else, leave UU untapped." -Ringo
Current EDH Builds:
G Azuza, Lost but Seeking
R Heartless Hidetsugu
About enchantment removal- sometimes you just have to work hard with your steal effects (Confusion in the Ranks, Conquering Masticore, Word of Seizing). Once i Seized Aura Shards and dropped some tokens over it, then i destroyed it as well. Fun times!
+ Flametongue Kavu
+ Sensei's Divining Top
- Rimescale Dragon
- In the Web of War
The cutting of these two is long overdue. I honestly can't say i've wanted to cast IWW before anything else in my deck. It's just a winmore card, nothing more and nothing less, though yes - you can do some absolutely nutty things with it.
Rimescale i havent had it stick on the board longer than a turn for far too long, i'd rather deal with my target now than let it come back with a vengeance later. Kavu does that well.
Fun Fact with SDT-
With Confusion out, you basically get to steal an artifact for 1 every turn without losing ANYTHING. Hell yea! Thanks, Ringo!
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Agree with IWW tho
I know you only have Norin to untap it, because Kiki jiki well... (Edit; Also Krark's Thumb )
Anyway, free mana is always nice?
Th...this is a good idea!
It is, in fact, a better ramper than Darksteel ingot. Since i'm mono colored - the extra red doesnt really matter to me - the only thing going for it is that it is indestructible.
It's also a good reason to possibly look at Mind's Eye again.
But then . . . oh, but . . . which means . . . which would lead to . . . exactly!
--------
Holy Norin! The first game i tested it in, Honor-Worn Shaku overperformed, doing some insanely crazy ramping. It takes over the slot without issues.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Cards to possibly add-
Viashino Heretic
More Lands
Goblin Ruinblaster
Smoke or Portcullis
Spine of Ish Sah
Mimic Vat
Crystal Ball
Illuminated Folio
Moggcatcher
Cards to cut-
Hoarding Dragon ? (is it really useful enough? What do you typically dig for - Krark's thumb?)
RWU
Zedruu, the Greathearted
RGW Uril, the Miststalker
I've just added a second artifact destructor in Manic Vandal, which while not repeatable, helps combat nasty artifacts that the Viashino could deal with as well. I dont happen to own one, but it's a solid option.
Just added another!
I havent felt a need for anything more than Goblin Settler, which incidently hits basics as well.
Smoke was once in here, but after i start getting tokens and go into offense mode, It hurts me more than it hurts them. So it was taken out.
Too expensive in my opinion.
Utility i just dont need. I do like Top more than ball simply due to its synergy with Confusion in the Ranks, and i dont feel like i need a second copy. Folio just sucks.
See below!
I like the dragon, it's a good way to get an artifact into my hand that gets crazy with Kikijiki. Once wizards prints a straight up artifact tutor for red (that doesnt involve draggins) I will probably replace it.
Changes:
+Snow-covered Mountain
+Icefall
+Outrage Shaman
+Moggcatcher
+Manic Vandal
+Springleaf Drum
+Mind's Eye
+Honor-Worn Shaku
-Hellion Eruption
-Smash
-Shattering Pulse
-Skred
-Flametongue Kavu
-Darksteel Ingot
-Everflowing Chalice
-Gauntlet of Power
Outrage Shaman is a strict upgrade from Flametongue Kavu. Obvious upgrade is obvious.
Hellion Eruption has turned into a win-more bomb. While it's friggin awesome to cast, i dont want to play something just because it's awesome. (Or Draco would be in the deck)
Shattering Pulse and Smash got replaced. One by a creature and one by a more easily recurrable one. This helps Warp World hit more targets.
Gauntlet of Power i've been meaning to cut since i got Caged Sun. Caged's suns reading of "any lands" instead of just basics means i get more mana under a moon effect, which is good.
New Norin friendly accelerants!
Moggcatcher - once i untap with it, it's like playing with Captain Sisay, only better. Glad i added it.
Mind's Eye - i was looking for another draw engine, and iWumbo gave the perfect solution - so here you are!
Enjoy!
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Recently i played a game with this deck that involved Murasa and a starting grip with two flare effects. After insane ramping my opponent managed to planeswalk into The Eon Fog.. i laughed hard, more ways to abuse Norin!
In other news - Mind's Eye and Teferi's Puzzle Box is the real deal. Yes, i would like to draw an obscene amount with you.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
"The permanents are exchanged only if they're both on the battlefield when the ability resolves."
http://magiccards.info/mi/en/87.html
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyWell, it's a reason to test Crystal Ball over Top ($20 a pop what)
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary