These seem to have good interaction with Pandemonium/Warstorm Surge, basically letting you convert all your mana to pinging damage each time around the table. Even without one of those Norin engines on the table, they let you pump opponents' creatures when they attack/block your other opponents so you can be a bit political. I don't think it's worth playing both of these functionally identical cards even though you could, but I'm going to try one out and see how it works in practice.
I've also considered using Thran Forge for similar reasons. It isn't quite as good at pumping, since it costs more and can only be used once per critter, but it also gives you a way to use your artifact removal on opponents' creatures.
These seem to have good interaction with Pandemonium/Warstorm Surge, basically letting you convert all your mana to pinging damage each time around the table. Even without one of those Norin engines on the table, they let you pump opponents' creatures when they attack/block your other opponents so you can be a bit political. I don't think it's worth playing both of these functionally identical cards even though you could, but I'm going to try one out and see how it works in practice.
I've also considered using Thran Forge for similar reasons. It isn't quite as good at pumping, since it costs more and can only be used once per critter, but it also gives you a way to use your artifact removal on opponents' creatures.
I think that just do to the very tap-out nature of the deck, these wouldn't be very good unless I'm in topdeck mode, something I strive to not be in. They are win-more in a deck that can't afford it.
On DKA Red Card Draw, Fight Removal:
I'm really iffy on all of them. Alpha Brawl seems decent, until you look at the mana cost and the fact it's only good vs specific types of decks. Blood Feud and Wrack with Madness are just bad.
Of Shattered Perception and Faithless Looting... I'm undecided. I haven't had the time to test either for very long, so I cannot give an informed opinion. However, on an untested viewpoint:
SP seems to be bad for me. The main reason I want for card draw is to power out my hand and refill it with a good turn of the Wheel. This does not do that, in fact, it just sets me behind a card until I flash it back, and really seems only good in an emergency here. I'd rather use Winds of Change, something I don't feel I want anyways.
Faithless Looting seems to function in a different role, one that is a LOT more important, and one that probably makes this earn a slot. That role is card filter. For one mana, RED gets the ability to filter through some cards, enabling good card quality and making Squee a lot more useful to the deck. I will probably be adding this to Norin.
A message to Wizards - PLEASE Print Goblin Looter.
Goblin Looter1R
Creature - Goblin Rogue
T: Draw a card, then discard a card.
I found it! I found it! ... What was it again?
1/1
Mark Globus, get on it. Can't be giving Skullbriar all the toys.
Havengul Fengraf - Creature Recursion....!!! I think I really need to test this one out, the random supplement is meaningless anyways, all the creatures are good to recur. I think this is another good reason to re-add Crucible of Worlds and to tinker with the mana base again. I had already slotted in more lands and mana artifacts prior to the spoilers, but now It's guaranteed.
Rest of DKA - It all sucks, except maybe for Torch Fiend. Torch Fiend is Playable.
Private Mod Note
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
I actually thought two of the werewolves looked like potentials. Both Afflicted Deserter and Mondronen Shaman seem playable. They seem to hit the sweet spot of being big enough to be an actual, albeit not huge threat, but small enough to not draw out removal on their own. In multiplayer, I don't think you can count on either staying flipped to the back side, but their artifact and spell-punishing abilities seem to complement the other disruption pretty well.
If this deck could pump out tokens just a bit more consistently, I'd look at Jar of Eyeballs to get a little more draw/tutoring, but as it stands I don't see it being good enough.
I'm beginning to think that your meta might be different from mine though - I mostly see midrange beatdown, voltron, and token decks, with very few other control or combo decks, so that might be what's skewing my card choices. Or I might just be bad at Magic, heh.
Either way, I agree with you that Havengul Fengraf and Faithless Looting seem to be worth testing. Thinking of Looting as filtering through 4 cards for 2RR makes the card disadvantage seem not so bad. Hopefully I can snag one (along with some of these other potentials) at the prerelease this weekend.
Hey Gaka, I've been playing this deck on cockatrice a bit and I loved it so I'm building a real life version. But I'm planning on taking out the land destruction package along with imperial recruiter because of my playgroup and because of price. What are some cards or kinds of cards would you recommend replace said cards? thanks.
Hey Gaka, I've been playing this deck on cockatrice a bit and I loved it so I'm building a real life version. But I'm planning on taking out the land destruction package along with imperial recruiter because of my playgroup and because of price. What are some cards or kinds of cards would you recommend replace said cards? thanks.
You could start with some of the cards that have been recently taken out. Check out the change log in the first post. There are some gems in there that I scratch my head over.
--> End of turn : Norin's back and steal one creature.
--> My friend played a creature to get back his creature and attacked with the other one.
--> I created a token with Kher Keep and no damage.
--> End of turn : Norin's back and no more creature on my friend side.
--> End of game.
How has wheel of fate been? I'm thinking about running it in my Kiki deck.
I love it. The delay is less of an issue than it might be, as it forces everyone to either win now, hold back counters, or dump their hand. Either way, they're now playing to your tune, and wheeling gives you that initial advantage once more over them of having an eight card hand with hopefully a bunch of toys on the field. I almost want to see Wheel of Fate more than Wheel of Fortune simply because of this.
Hint: casting this on turn two is not always the best option. You want to play stuff too, and some of what you have can't be cast by the time wheel goes off until later in the game. Like brainstorm, the longer you wait the better it gets.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
How well does Thopter Assembly work in this deck, and is it alright to cut Gilded Lotus for it (for budget reasons)? Will the manabase still be alright, or should I cut something else and replace Gilded Lotus with a cheaper mana artifact or land?
I wouldn't touch Assembly to be perfectly honest. It's slow, costly, and interacts negatively with both itself and confusion in the ranks.
Situation A: You cast assembly with Confusion out. you are forced to give it to someone else. If you want to keep the thopter ability, you're forced to steal it again with Norin instead of something potentially more powerful.
You manage to crack the thopters. You DO get a mass influx of creatures... but over the course of a turn, and very slowly. The fact that it's both an artifact and a creature makes it easy to deal with, and I don't think it's worth it.
Situation B:
You cast assembly. You wait a turn, and get 5 thopters.
...and now you have a dead card in hand. Casting it doesn't do anything for you, as the thopters are sitting there saying "no ability for you." On the plus side, assembly gives you 5 tokens to shove into skullclamp for cards.
So I was browsing my store's single cards today and I found this little beauty: Ashnod's Altar. To me it seems like a pretty amazing card for this deck, considering how many tokens we are generating as well as taking over our opponent's creatures, being able to sacrifice the big guys to prevent them from going back to your opponents seems really nice. And it produces mana! Have you tested this card? If so, what did you think of it?
There have been a couple of posts regarding sac'ing ala Goblin Bombardment earlier in this thread. Those posts may be helpful.
I've been testing the Parasite in place of Conquering Manticore, in fact. (let's face it, 6 mana for a one-shot effect that can't be tutored for kind of sucks)
So far, it's been rather nice for stopping ramp, and makes Genesis Wave a lot less threatening.
War's Toll instead of Grip of Chaos, good idea? Seems a bit annoying having to select among 20-ish targets every time anybody does anything. I don't know though, I haven't finished building the deck yet.
If you like. I prefer Grip just for the annoyances it DOES cause. ...of course, I'm a blatant troll and it's what I do.
War's Toll could certainly have a slot, but it's not in my style to force plays.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
War's Toll instead of Grip of Chaos, good idea? Seems a bit annoying having to select among 20-ish targets every time anybody does anything. I don't know though, I haven't finished building the deck yet.
I suggest War's Toll in every Red deck because I love screwing with people. However in a deck without a way force people to use mana...I just don't think that it is worth it. If there was a Ghostly Prison type effect maybe but with The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale being the only valid forced payment...I don't think it is worth it.
i've had this deck for the longest time, and i do admit... there are times when i feel a little dirty when i have all my opponents generals from a confusion in the ranks
my deck runs a large amount of coin flipping as well, but have you considered Krark's thumb?
i mean... norin likes to abuse cards, why not abuse your coin flips?
also, game of chaos is a whole lot of fun too, you can win an entire game off of a greedy opponent sometimes ^.^
i've had this deck for the longest time, and i do admit... there are times when i feel a little dirty when i have all my opponents generals from a confusion in the ranks
my deck runs a large amount of coin flipping as well, but have you considered Krark's thumb?
i mean... norin likes to abuse cards, why not abuse your coin flips?
also, game of chaos is a whole lot of fun too, you can win an entire game off of a greedy opponent sometimes ^.^
Krark's Thumb was in when the deck had a lot more coinflip cards, but turned out to be completely dead most of the time. It's also useless without coinflip cards.
Game of Chaos is too luck based for me, I like SOME control of the chaos I inflict.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
I've been testing the Parasite in place of Conquering Manticore, in fact. (let's face it, 6 mana for a one-shot effect that can't be tutored for kind of sucks)
So far, it's been rather nice for stopping ramp, and makes Genesis Wave a lot less threatening.
Edit: 60,000 views, woohoo!
Hmmm, idk about yourself but through the amount of play testing and games I've done with Norin, Conquering Manticore has saved me a number of times from death. Yes it may be a one shot effect but grabbing a voltron general for a turn and killing its owner with it is always so satisfying ;D
Now I have one other suggestion - one shot effects in the deck like Conquering Manticore always upset me because if I haven't done enough to either win or kill who I wanted to then all I have done is fueled the fire and painted a nice big target on my face. So! I wonder what do you think of a sacrifice outlet - specifically Phyrexian Altar since it seems the most beneficial of all the ones I've looked up for this mono red deck. Take a creature or creatures with Word of SeizingInsurrection and the Manticore and THEN make sure nothings returned after its used up? Sounds good to me, synergizes nicely with Vicious Shadows as well
Edit: Looking back I see a couple others have mentioned sacrifice outlets like Ashnods Altar. Apologies for the redundant question if you've already stated your opinions on it before
I suggest War's Toll in every Red deck because I love screwing with people. However in a deck without a way force people to use mana...I just don't think that it is worth it. If there was a Ghostly Prison type effect maybe but with The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale being the only valid forced payment...I don't think it is worthWa
Is there any specific type of meta that Norin does better in? I play in a very beatdown/voltron (Uril/Rafiq/Omnath) and aggro (Slivers/Ghave) heavy meta and I've been trying to figure out how to better tune the list to be able to survive. I already threw an Ensnaring Bridge in there but I'm not sure what else I could do. I always seem to die before I can get an engine in place.
In general, the more colors and nonbasics your deck runs, the easier time Norin has with ...dare I say it? Ruination-ing your day. If you have a large, splashy curve - Norin murders you and your children. If you have zero basics, Norin pets your kitten and then murders you and your children. Norin isn't nice to the format as a whole.
I have had a lot of success using norin with cards that deal damage whenever a creature attacks like raid bombardment. Norin leaves combat so can't be blocked, hence a guaranteed at least 1 damage plus whatever other goblin army comes across that turn, won me a lot of games.
I've been wanting to build norin for a while now and after seeing your Mini Primer, i just couldn't help myself. I really like Ensnaring Bridge for this deck, btw.
The main issue i've found with red, in general, is it's lack of answers. In order to deal with the aggro that all my friends play, i'm running all 4 major red board clears: Decree, Joklhaups, Apocalypse, and Obliterate.
After playing the deck for a while, i notice it's one major weakness: It does almost nothing without Confusion in the ranks, and with confusion it tends to hurt itself a lot by trading really important stuff. I've started running Spine of Ish Sah, Karn Liberated, Horn of Greed, and things of the sort. Stuff that benefits me while isn't a problem if i have to trade it away.
There's also some cards that i've ended up wanting to drop, such as Pandemonium, because my opponents get more use out of it than i do. When my opponent drops almost any creature they have in the deck and smacks me for 4+, it really hurts.
You talked about wanting an unconditional artifact/enchantment tutor for red. Have you considered Gamble? I've gotten amazing use out of it, but i don't see it on your list.
Gamble is in the list in the OP.
I tried Horn of Greed in my build, but it's so dangerous. I am incredibly glad that it only triggers off of playing a land, not fetching, etc., but there was a time (right after I put Horn in) when everyone locally was playing Oracle of Mul Daya and Exploration. Horn is definitely dependent on your local meta, because in scenarios like that you will just get buried by the cards everyone else is drawing. You have no way to take advantage of it beyond just hitting land drops, and you're going to have at least someone at the table outdraw you with it pretty much every time. I am just iffy on it, given my experiences.
These seem to have good interaction with Pandemonium/Warstorm Surge, basically letting you convert all your mana to pinging damage each time around the table. Even without one of those Norin engines on the table, they let you pump opponents' creatures when they attack/block your other opponents so you can be a bit political. I don't think it's worth playing both of these functionally identical cards even though you could, but I'm going to try one out and see how it works in practice.
I've also considered using Thran Forge for similar reasons. It isn't quite as good at pumping, since it costs more and can only be used once per critter, but it also gives you a way to use your artifact removal on opponents' creatures.
I think that just do to the very tap-out nature of the deck, these wouldn't be very good unless I'm in topdeck mode, something I strive to not be in. They are win-more in a deck that can't afford it.
On DKA Red Card Draw, Fight Removal:
I'm really iffy on all of them. Alpha Brawl seems decent, until you look at the mana cost and the fact it's only good vs specific types of decks. Blood Feud and Wrack with Madness are just bad.
Of Shattered Perception and Faithless Looting... I'm undecided. I haven't had the time to test either for very long, so I cannot give an informed opinion. However, on an untested viewpoint:
SP seems to be bad for me. The main reason I want for card draw is to power out my hand and refill it with a good turn of the Wheel. This does not do that, in fact, it just sets me behind a card until I flash it back, and really seems only good in an emergency here. I'd rather use Winds of Change, something I don't feel I want anyways.
Faithless Looting seems to function in a different role, one that is a LOT more important, and one that probably makes this earn a slot. That role is card filter. For one mana, RED gets the ability to filter through some cards, enabling good card quality and making Squee a lot more useful to the deck. I will probably be adding this to Norin.
A message to Wizards - PLEASE Print Goblin Looter.
Goblin Looter 1R
Creature - Goblin Rogue
T: Draw a card, then discard a card.
I found it! I found it! ... What was it again?
1/1
Mark Globus, get on it. Can't be giving Skullbriar all the toys.
Havengul Fengraf - Creature Recursion....!!! I think I really need to test this one out, the random supplement is meaningless anyways, all the creatures are good to recur. I think this is another good reason to re-add Crucible of Worlds and to tinker with the mana base again. I had already slotted in more lands and mana artifacts prior to the spoilers, but now It's guaranteed.
Rest of DKA - It all sucks, except maybe for Torch Fiend. Torch Fiend is Playable.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
If this deck could pump out tokens just a bit more consistently, I'd look at Jar of Eyeballs to get a little more draw/tutoring, but as it stands I don't see it being good enough.
I'm beginning to think that your meta might be different from mine though - I mostly see midrange beatdown, voltron, and token decks, with very few other control or combo decks, so that might be what's skewing my card choices. Or I might just be bad at Magic, heh.
Either way, I agree with you that Havengul Fengraf and Faithless Looting seem to be worth testing. Thinking of Looting as filtering through 4 cards for 2RR makes the card disadvantage seem not so bad. Hopefully I can snag one (along with some of these other potentials) at the prerelease this weekend.
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
Last night had 1 point less and my friend 9 points.
I played Warp World and got:
- Confusion in the Ranks
- Tangle Wire
- Kher Keep
- artifacts
- 4 creatures
My friend got lands and 2 creatures.
--> End of turn : Norin's back and steal one creature.
--> My friend played a creature to get back his creature and attacked with the other one.
--> I created a token with Kher Keep and no damage.
--> End of turn : Norin's back and no more creature on my friend side.
--> End of game.
So so much fun !!! Gaka your deck is so huge !!!
Thank You Rivenor/Miraculous Recovery Studios!
GGGSKamahl's Band of Monstosities SGGG
RRRSFreaki-Kiki, The Goblin DoucheSRRR
BBGGNath, Raper of Hands and Spewer of Tokens!GGBB
BUGDamia, Sage of AnswersBUG
WIPs
BBBXiahou Dun, the Bitter Stax Enabling BastardBBB
On Break
BBBSKagemaro, First to RetireSBBB
BBBThe Walking DeadBBB
UUUSTeferi Combo PrimerSUUU
I love it. The delay is less of an issue than it might be, as it forces everyone to either win now, hold back counters, or dump their hand. Either way, they're now playing to your tune, and wheeling gives you that initial advantage once more over them of having an eight card hand with hopefully a bunch of toys on the field. I almost want to see Wheel of Fate more than Wheel of Fortune simply because of this.
Hint: casting this on turn two is not always the best option. You want to play stuff too, and some of what you have can't be cast by the time wheel goes off until later in the game. Like brainstorm, the longer you wait the better it gets.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I wouldn't touch Assembly to be perfectly honest. It's slow, costly, and interacts negatively with both itself and confusion in the ranks.
Situation A: You cast assembly with Confusion out. you are forced to give it to someone else. If you want to keep the thopter ability, you're forced to steal it again with Norin instead of something potentially more powerful.
You manage to crack the thopters. You DO get a mass influx of creatures... but over the course of a turn, and very slowly. The fact that it's both an artifact and a creature makes it easy to deal with, and I don't think it's worth it.
Situation B:
You cast assembly. You wait a turn, and get 5 thopters.
...and now you have a dead card in hand. Casting it doesn't do anything for you, as the thopters are sitting there saying "no ability for you." On the plus side, assembly gives you 5 tokens to shove into skullclamp for cards.
I don't like Thopter Assembly.
Gilded Lotus - you're perfectly fine cutting it for the budget. My advice would be to replace it with Fire Diamond or Coalition Relic.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I'm currently testing the card in various slots, a minimal selection of test games means I can't really say anything for it yet.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
There have been a couple of posts regarding sac'ing ala Goblin Bombardment earlier in this thread. Those posts may be helpful.
I've been testing the Parasite in place of Conquering Manticore, in fact. (let's face it, 6 mana for a one-shot effect that can't be tutored for kind of sucks)
So far, it's been rather nice for stopping ramp, and makes Genesis Wave a lot less threatening.
Edit: 60,000 views, woohoo!
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
If you like. I prefer Grip just for the annoyances it DOES cause. ...of course, I'm a blatant troll and it's what I do.
War's Toll could certainly have a slot, but it's not in my style to force plays.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
my deck runs a large amount of coin flipping as well, but have you considered Krark's thumb?
i mean... norin likes to abuse cards, why not abuse your coin flips?
also, game of chaos is a whole lot of fun too, you can win an entire game off of a greedy opponent sometimes ^.^
Krark's Thumb was in when the deck had a lot more coinflip cards, but turned out to be completely dead most of the time. It's also useless without coinflip cards.
Game of Chaos is too luck based for me, I like SOME control of the chaos I inflict.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Hmmm, idk about yourself but through the amount of play testing and games I've done with Norin, Conquering Manticore has saved me a number of times from death. Yes it may be a one shot effect but grabbing a voltron general for a turn and killing its owner with it is always so satisfying ;D
Now I have one other suggestion - one shot effects in the deck like Conquering Manticore always upset me because if I haven't done enough to either win or kill who I wanted to then all I have done is fueled the fire and painted a nice big target on my face. So! I wonder what do you think of a sacrifice outlet - specifically Phyrexian Altar since it seems the most beneficial of all the ones I've looked up for this mono red deck. Take a creature or creatures with Word of Seizing Insurrection and the Manticore and THEN make sure nothings returned after its used up? Sounds good to me, synergizes nicely with Vicious Shadows as well
Edit: Looking back I see a couple others have mentioned sacrifice outlets like Ashnods Altar. Apologies for the redundant question if you've already stated your opinions on it before
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs is a ghostly prison effect on color.
If you have a lot of aggro, the best lines of defense are Ensnaring Bridge, Goblin Sharpshooter, Goblin Bombardment, and Pyrohemia. The more wipes and removal you have, the easier time you should have with these matchups.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I've been wanting to build norin for a while now and after seeing your Mini Primer, i just couldn't help myself. I really like Ensnaring Bridge for this deck, btw.
The main issue i've found with red, in general, is it's lack of answers. In order to deal with the aggro that all my friends play, i'm running all 4 major red board clears: Decree, Joklhaups, Apocalypse, and Obliterate.
After playing the deck for a while, i notice it's one major weakness: It does almost nothing without Confusion in the ranks, and with confusion it tends to hurt itself a lot by trading really important stuff. I've started running Spine of Ish Sah, Karn Liberated, Horn of Greed, and things of the sort. Stuff that benefits me while isn't a problem if i have to trade it away.
There's also some cards that i've ended up wanting to drop, such as Pandemonium, because my opponents get more use out of it than i do. When my opponent drops almost any creature they have in the deck and smacks me for 4+, it really hurts.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
Gamble is in the list in the OP.
I tried Horn of Greed in my build, but it's so dangerous. I am incredibly glad that it only triggers off of playing a land, not fetching, etc., but there was a time (right after I put Horn in) when everyone locally was playing Oracle of Mul Daya and Exploration. Horn is definitely dependent on your local meta, because in scenarios like that you will just get buried by the cards everyone else is drawing. You have no way to take advantage of it beyond just hitting land drops, and you're going to have at least someone at the table outdraw you with it pretty much every time. I am just iffy on it, given my experiences.