I've already removed Pandemonium. My playgroup does not like Norin much, so I tend to be focused. I don't want to facilitate my own destruction that much.
This thing is just awesome as an enchantment for 3R. It's indestructible (which is REALLY amazing), it almost does the job of Warstorm Surge (depends of the situation) and it still has an activated ability on top of that. I'm not even talking about the fact that it may have a nice body too.
Quick ruling question, how does "enchantment creature" works with Warp World? Usually enchantments enter the battlefield after all the other permanents... but in this case, I guess it enters the battlefield the same time as all the other creatures (whether or not you have devotion 5). So it means that it will trigger for each of your creatures. Which is... insane, isn't it?
Now, what do we remove? Pandemonium is still too important to me, we never have enough of those ETB effects for Norin.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Probably going to remove one of the non-permanent card of the deck (hate to hit those with Warp World).
Aftershock is good, I also run Faithless Looting (still not sure about this one, it helped so far especially with Anger and Squee). Reverberate, Reiterate and Fork, maybe 3 is too much. Chaos Warp for obvious reason, World of Seizing because there is nothing better than being delighted when your opponent plays Elspeth or Tamiyo and all you have to do is wait to get the emblem. I'm trying to add more synergy with both Warp World and Possibility Storm. Gamble and Shattering Spree won't be removed for sure. It's probably gonna be Fork, it leaves the deck still with 4 instant. Could remove completely that Fork package and add some more enchantments too (I don't run Blood Moon yet).
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
you do realize that with 3 red mana symbols and norin on the battlefield purphoros becomes as intargettable as norin? at least where creatures are concerned.
you do realize that with 3 red mana symbols and norin on the battlefield purphoros becomes as intargettable as norin? at least where creatures are concerned.
Yeah and as I read that I realized that you can't really attack or block with him in such a situation. :/
Edit: But who cares? This card is still a must play. The creature part is just bonus.
Any thoughts on Battle Squadron? I lose a game yesterday because I wasn't unable to handle a flying creature and while searching for some flying Goblins, I came across this one (creature type has been errated) and I think it's great. Tutorable with Moggcatcher, can swing for the win if you have Moggcatcher (because you tutored Kiki-Jiki, copies it EOT, tutored this, then Krenko and Siege-Gang Commander on your turn to have about ~20 goblins (starting from 0 the turn before)). If Anger is in your graveyard, it's game.
I know that we don't especially need a flying dude to swing for the win, but it blocks too. And with any of our enchantments on the battlefield, this guy could be huge (for us).
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I like Chaosphere more than I like Battle Squadron. Neither's great, but red's options in the air never are. Of course, being able to tutor for the ship is pretty neat.
I like Chaosphere more than I like Battle Squadron. Neither's great, but red's options in the air never are. Of course, being able to tutor for the ship is pretty neat.
I like the creature more because of Possibility Storm, I don't really want to hit Chaosphere usually when playing an enchantment and I see it more like an instant way to block or attack for the win than a permanent solution. And the fact that the ship is a goblin interacts well with the rest of the deck (Moggcatcher, Krenko, Chieftain, ...). I'm probably removing Goblin Marshall because I always end up searching Siege-Gang Commander anyway (the only case where I prefer Marshall is when I'm casting Mogg Infestation targetting myself and Forking it with either Anger in the graveyard or a Pandemonium effect on the field).
My question is more to know if it's worth the 99 or not. When Moggcatcher is out, this deck becomes a wonderful toolbox. Would love to see a legendary goblin searcher. Anyway.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
My question is more to know if it's worth the 99 or not.
I doubt it. It's one body, so if it's going to save you, it's going to get killed pretty quickly. It's not particularly easy to protect and it's just not doing enough. Perhaps, somewhere, it is. It's meta dependent, but I wouldn't call it generally playable.
I doubt it. It's one body, so if it's going to save you, it's going to get killed pretty quickly. It's not particularly easy to protect and it's just not doing enough. Perhaps, somewhere, it is. It's meta dependent, but I wouldn't call it generally playable.
Ya right. I guess the old way to deal with flying it still good (killing or stealing annoying creatures with our enchantments).
I'm still playing Changeling Berserker in my build. Without Moggcatcher, it's a 5 power haste body. With Moggcatcher, it protects any creature you want at instant speed from mass or targeted removal. Finally, with Coat of Arms... well.
But I have a hard time finding spots for new cards. Maybe Gauntlet of Power. Gauntlet of Might is cheaper to play. And while the later will eventually help any opponent playing dual with Mountain type, the former will turn any basic land into Temple of the False God if they have Chromatic Lantern out. Caged Sun is obviously better. The best reason to play the most of those effects is to boost Norin when Pandemonium or Warstorm Surge is out. Not sure it's worth playing 3 however.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I run Lightning Crafter in Krenko as both a combo piece and an umbra. It's very good at both. Champion is a powerful ability when you're even a little dependent on creatures.
I run Lightning Crafter in Krenko as both a combo piece and an umbra. It's very good at both. Champion is a powerful ability when you're even a little dependent on creatures.
I would really love to run Crafter, the only difference is that it can't protect Moggcatcher itself. I'm still debating if it's worth losing the amazing Crafter's ability. The bigger power for our enchantments, haste and changeling are also worth considerations but overall I would like to run the Crafter instead. I will think about it a little bit more and ask myself what I would really prefer to have in my deck everytime my Moggcatcher is out.
Still debating on what to remove. Is Mogg War Marshall really needed in this deck? For a early Warp World it's great and with Skullclamp it's amazing but I'm not sure it's really needed. The only time I want it is on turn 2. Good with Chieftain but Siege-Gang Commander is better every time.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Might as well remove Zealous Conscript for flavor reason. I hate infinite combos in general and it's not a goblin. It's a good card, but World of Seizing is better and doesn't go infinite with Kiki.
But that's for personal reason, I know the deck will be a little bit weaker without him but it doesn't change the gameplay and the fun part at all.
I just need to remove one card for Purphoros and I decided to play 36 lands instead of 35, I'm not playing Sol Ring and I want this deck to be legal in both banlists. I will try to post my full updated decklist later on.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Marshal... It's got relevant interactions with any bounce or things like Conjurer's Closet and is usable as a one-time accelerator with Skirk Prospector (:1mana::symr: for :symr::symr::symr:, but not every Norin deck is Goblin enough for Prospector). Plus it's multiple ETB abilities and that value with Kiki-Jiki.
Siege-Gang's better, but both are playable. I'd run both of them in Norin, certainly.
Marshal... It's got relevant interactions with any bounce or things like Conjurer's Closet and is usable as a one-time accelerator with Skirk Prospector (:1mana::symr: for :symr::symr::symr:, but not every Norin deck is Goblin enough for Prospector). Plus it's multiple ETB abilities and that value with Kiki-Jiki.
Siege-Gang's better, but both are playable. I'd run both of them in Norin, certainly.
You are talking about the small or the big Marshall? I like the small better, I'm already removing the big one. I know it's good but usually when I set up a tribal attack, Moggcatcher is here first. The big Marshall is good with our enchantments too however. That's a hard choice.
Not playing Prospector because the biggest CMC is Warp World in my list and sacrifying permanents to cast it isn't really what I want to do.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Or I can keep both and remove one of the 3 Fork. Reiterate stays here. As for Reverberate against Fork, I haven't seen a lot of pro red thing in my meta, I don't think it matters much.
I could remove both and play Radiate instead and just keep Reiterate. Radiate a Bribery or a Beast Within is so much fun, while Fork is dead in some 1v1 matchups. Choices, choices...
I know Gaka likes Fork effects, he says he included Chandra only for her -2 ability (while I'm using the +1 a lot). But most of time, I'm using Fork on Cultivate. If I'm playing against Genesis Wave, I will hold it but I'm not sure I need 3-4 Fork effects only for this reason. Chandra does the job if I want to Warp World or World of Seizing twice.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
about the fliers, as i most commonly duel with a gisela deck, i think aether membrane could be useful. tutorable only with imperial recruiter and gamble though.
Purphoros is gonna be great in this deck, isn't he?
For sure. He will just be one of the most impactful cards in this deck.
In a 4 player free-for-all game when you play him and have Norin on the battlefield he will have dealt 8 damage to each opponent (through Norins blinking), so a total of 24 damage. Add a Genesis Chamber and you double that damage.
If Pulphoros and Norin are in play and you play a Siege-Gang Commander that are already 10 damage to each opponent in that turn. And next turn you can also pump and attack with your Goblins for even more damage.
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I'm in a Kaalia, Omnath, Angel.deck and Demon.deck-meta.
So you cannot stop me!
Nothing can stop Norin!
Edit: On the other hand they usually use it to kill each other off, so that might be an argument for Pandy.
It plays nice with Possibility Storm.
Quick ruling question, how does "enchantment creature" works with Warp World? Usually enchantments enter the battlefield after all the other permanents... but in this case, I guess it enters the battlefield the same time as all the other creatures (whether or not you have devotion 5). So it means that it will trigger for each of your creatures. Which is... insane, isn't it?
Now, what do we remove? Pandemonium is still too important to me, we never have enough of those ETB effects for Norin.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks:
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Aftershock is good, I also run Faithless Looting (still not sure about this one, it helped so far especially with Anger and Squee). Reverberate, Reiterate and Fork, maybe 3 is too much. Chaos Warp for obvious reason, World of Seizing because there is nothing better than being delighted when your opponent plays Elspeth or Tamiyo and all you have to do is wait to get the emblem. I'm trying to add more synergy with both Warp World and Possibility Storm. Gamble and Shattering Spree won't be removed for sure. It's probably gonna be Fork, it leaves the deck still with 4 instant. Could remove completely that Fork package and add some more enchantments too (I don't run Blood Moon yet).
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks:
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
YES!!! This guy is awesome!
Yeah and as I read that I realized that you can't really attack or block with him in such a situation. :/
Edit: But who cares? This card is still a must play. The creature part is just bonus.
I am not sure how the Church of Norin would react to including a god in this deck.
I know that we don't especially need a flying dude to swing for the win, but it blocks too. And with any of our enchantments on the battlefield, this guy could be huge (for us).
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks:
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I like the creature more because of Possibility Storm, I don't really want to hit Chaosphere usually when playing an enchantment and I see it more like an instant way to block or attack for the win than a permanent solution. And the fact that the ship is a goblin interacts well with the rest of the deck (Moggcatcher, Krenko, Chieftain, ...). I'm probably removing Goblin Marshall because I always end up searching Siege-Gang Commander anyway (the only case where I prefer Marshall is when I'm casting Mogg Infestation targetting myself and Forking it with either Anger in the graveyard or a Pandemonium effect on the field).
My question is more to know if it's worth the 99 or not. When Moggcatcher is out, this deck becomes a wonderful toolbox. Would love to see a legendary goblin searcher. Anyway.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks:
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I doubt it. It's one body, so if it's going to save you, it's going to get killed pretty quickly. It's not particularly easy to protect and it's just not doing enough. Perhaps, somewhere, it is. It's meta dependent, but I wouldn't call it generally playable.
Ya right. I guess the old way to deal with flying it still good (killing or stealing annoying creatures with our enchantments).
I'm still playing Changeling Berserker in my build. Without Moggcatcher, it's a 5 power haste body. With Moggcatcher, it protects any creature you want at instant speed from mass or targeted removal. Finally, with Coat of Arms... well.
But I have a hard time finding spots for new cards. Maybe Gauntlet of Power. Gauntlet of Might is cheaper to play. And while the later will eventually help any opponent playing dual with Mountain type, the former will turn any basic land into Temple of the False God if they have Chromatic Lantern out. Caged Sun is obviously better. The best reason to play the most of those effects is to boost Norin when Pandemonium or Warstorm Surge is out. Not sure it's worth playing 3 however.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks:
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I run Lightning Crafter in Krenko as both a combo piece and an umbra. It's very good at both. Champion is a powerful ability when you're even a little dependent on creatures.
I would really love to run Crafter, the only difference is that it can't protect Moggcatcher itself. I'm still debating if it's worth losing the amazing Crafter's ability. The bigger power for our enchantments, haste and changeling are also worth considerations but overall I would like to run the Crafter instead. I will think about it a little bit more and ask myself what I would really prefer to have in my deck everytime my Moggcatcher is out.
Still debating on what to remove. Is Mogg War Marshall really needed in this deck? For a early Warp World it's great and with Skullclamp it's amazing but I'm not sure it's really needed. The only time I want it is on turn 2. Good with Chieftain but Siege-Gang Commander is better every time.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks:
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
But that's for personal reason, I know the deck will be a little bit weaker without him but it doesn't change the gameplay and the fun part at all.
I just need to remove one card for Purphoros and I decided to play 36 lands instead of 35, I'm not playing Sol Ring and I want this deck to be legal in both banlists. I will try to post my full updated decklist later on.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks:
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Siege-Gang's better, but both are playable. I'd run both of them in Norin, certainly.
You are talking about the small or the big Marshall? I like the small better, I'm already removing the big one. I know it's good but usually when I set up a tribal attack, Moggcatcher is here first. The big Marshall is good with our enchantments too however. That's a hard choice.
Not playing Prospector because the biggest CMC is Warp World in my list and sacrifying permanents to cast it isn't really what I want to do.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks:
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I think you have to look at it like how honored a god must feel to be included in this deck...
<be back in a few months!>
I could remove both and play Radiate instead and just keep Reiterate. Radiate a Bribery or a Beast Within is so much fun, while Fork is dead in some 1v1 matchups. Choices, choices...
I know Gaka likes Fork effects, he says he included Chandra only for her -2 ability (while I'm using the +1 a lot). But most of time, I'm using Fork on Cultivate. If I'm playing against Genesis Wave, I will hold it but I'm not sure I need 3-4 Fork effects only for this reason. Chandra does the job if I want to Warp World or World of Seizing twice.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks:
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I think I'm putting it straight in place of Pandemonium as an almost strictly-better-than.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
For sure. He will just be one of the most impactful cards in this deck.
In a 4 player free-for-all game when you play him and have Norin on the battlefield he will have dealt 8 damage to each opponent (through Norins blinking), so a total of 24 damage. Add a Genesis Chamber and you double that damage.
If Pulphoros and Norin are in play and you play a Siege-Gang Commander that are already 10 damage to each opponent in that turn. And next turn you can also pump and attack with your Goblins for even more damage.