One thing i would like to see is some kind of GY reset.. i know red is not strong in recursion, but sometimes i would just like to put all the threats (and goblins for matron) back into the library.. ala Eldrazi put into GY effect, only less intimidating..
One thing i would like to see is some kind of GY reset.. i know red is not strong in recursion, but sometimes i would just like to put all the threats (and goblins for matron) back into the library.. ala Eldrazi put into GY effect, only less intimidating..
This has been a long-standing problem. One of the early solutions was Sword of Light and Shadow, which has obvious problems with confusion in the ranks.
So far, i believe the best options for recursion to be:
but, i do not think i want to force recursion into the deck unless i feel it's absolutely needed. If a Norin-friendly recursion piece comes along, i will look at it.
@Glitterfang Without confusion, it's useless. I dont like it.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Just got my hands on a foil Norin, and made him my general as a result of an old dare. Fell in love from game one. Updated a lot of my deck to test your version, and I have no doubt it's every bit as fun.
What are your thoughts on Omen Machine? It stops everybody else's card draw, and once you flip enough cards to get your own engine going, there's plenty of ways to kill it. Plus that with Teferi's Puzzle Box puts everybody in literal topdeck mode.
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Signature courtesy of DarkNightCavalier
Currently Playing: BSheoldred, Whispering One BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord :GolGaRi: BGWGhave, Guru of Spores BURSedris, the Traitor King GUVorel of the Hull Clade:SimiC: RNorin the Wary - Derp Deck Wins
Omen Machine is a fun, fun card. It makes blue players cry (huge plus) and makes spell-based combo players die horribly.
I think it could make for an excellent annoying addition, except that it also forces the deck to revolve around it. Having situational cards in the deck will no longer work. Pretty much everything would need to do a lot of stuff to everyone at the same time, and the card can go wrong far too easily than something like Pandemonium or Confusion in the Ranks. That's the main reason why i wont include it in my list.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
There isn't much we can actually do about enchantments. Red is noticeably lacking in that department.
Solutions are available though. You can always stick in an Oblivion Stone or Karn, Planeswalker. Another way to stop Zur in his tracks is to include the new red anti-tutor - Strangehold.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Have you tried Knollspine Dragon in the past? You can use it to dig like mad with Kiki
Yup. Didn't like it at all. Only good on occasion. A card that defenitely doesnt fit in here due to lack of direct damage, but it probably goes well in a Squee deck.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
What do you think of putting in Mimic Vat? With the amount of ETB creatures that you run you could really get a lot of value from it, plus whatever else you could take from your opponents also.
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." —Jaya Ballard, task mage
I read this while watching Tosh.0. I got to the Q&A and decided that it was officially more funny than this particular episode. Well done sir, well done.
What do you think of putting in Mimic Vat? With the amount of ETB creatures that you run you could really get a lot of value from it, plus whatever else you could take from your opponents also.
The reason i wont consider this is actually one of hatred for the card. While drafting that set, within three tournaments i opened no less than 7 of it. I refuse to use that card anymore, even if it served me well during drafts.
I read this while watching Tosh.0. I got to the Q&A and decided that it was officially more funny than this particular episode. Well done sir, well done.
Scrambleverse6RR
Sorcery (R)
For each nonland permanent, choose a player at random. Then each player gains control of each permanent for which he or she was chosen. Untap those permanents. Sometimes a little chaos is in order.
I guess it's pretty good..
One thing that irks me about Norin is that it has practically no answer to beatdown. If your opponents' decide to paint a target on your face, you are sure to go down. Against swarm decks, you can't even trade your Myr tokens for anything useful.
Did you try something like Goblin Sharpshooter? Or Pyrohemia or sth..
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
Now that i'm back from vacation and can view the new spoilers, i can say that i am quite happy.
@Mikey - Momentarily.
@Zalachan - Scrambleverse just seems like too much fun not to use, or at least try out. And i completely agree about the beatdown. There isn't much I can do, which is a problem that needs to be fixed. Goblin Sharpshooter is a good idea, i use it in Lyzolda to insane effect, so i believe it would do something similar here.
@Yoshi - I have come to this conclusion as well. Too many times i've searched for nothing because my opponents are white and i'd rather not get 2 for 1'd. while losing a tool. If i have kiki in hand, then i'd be happy to cast dragon.. otherwise it can go die in a fire.
@shishi - Shattering Pulse has been tried before, but When using the discard/draw engines, it sucked. A lot. Outrage Shaman wont go anytime soon, it's too valuable as spot removal. Mox Opal does need a change, and yes, Tangle Wire is a little random now. Though it is fun going Tangle Wire -> Scullpting Steel.
Reiterate isn't in anymore on the same lines as Pulse, it was in here for several months until i tossed it. The Pandemonium will be guaranteed a spot. Holy crap.
Also - Planning to get the Norin altered to feature a Kamina Cape and Glasses from Gurren Lagann, which is probably the most epic show on the face of the planet if you havent seen it.
Also - Planning to get the Norin altered to feature a Kamina Cape and Glasses from Gurren Lagann, which is probably the most epic show on the face of the planet if you havent seen it.
Imagining Norin throwing galaxies at opponents...I approve of this. When (if) done, I so wanna see this! Actually, I'd want one myself too
Norin's new flavour text : "Who the h*ll do you think I am?!"
Norin actually compares nicely to Gurren Lagann. It just keeps keeps rolling and rolling, bigger and bigger until things are just out of control and insane.
Smoke could slow down aggro. The problem is you have no way to get rid of it when you need it gone. Are you sure that just flooding your board with tokens to chump block isn't effective enough? Maybe try out Chancellor of the Forge or Siege-Gang Commander? They both are good with Kiki and Confusion.(Siege-Gang less so because he's not necessarily useless on another red player's board.)
Smokestack does not seem like a terrible card at all in your list. I'm not sure how it would be if you don't have tokens swarming up is the thing.
Maybe Ensaring Bridge? since most of your guys are small? meh?
Shunt? I've mentioned this card before but Fork effects are one of the if not THE most powerful things red has so having another, even if it is slightly worse against most spells, but better against a few could be put to use.
I also think you should strongly reconsider Godo only because it tutors for the best card in your deck
Glitterfang
effectivly it should read
R:Gain Control of Target Creature
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyThis has been a long-standing problem. One of the early solutions was Sword of Light and Shadow, which has obvious problems with confusion in the ranks.
So far, i believe the best options for recursion to be:
but, i do not think i want to force recursion into the deck unless i feel it's absolutely needed. If a Norin-friendly recursion piece comes along, i will look at it.
@Glitterfang Without confusion, it's useless. I dont like it.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
What are your thoughts on Omen Machine? It stops everybody else's card draw, and once you flip enough cards to get your own engine going, there's plenty of ways to kill it. Plus that with Teferi's Puzzle Box puts everybody in literal topdeck mode.
Signature courtesy of DarkNightCavalier
BSheoldred, Whispering One
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord :GolGaRi:
BGWGhave, Guru of Spores
BURSedris, the Traitor King
GUVorel of the Hull Clade:SimiC:
RNorin the Wary - Derp Deck Wins
I think it could make for an excellent annoying addition, except that it also forces the deck to revolve around it. Having situational cards in the deck will no longer work. Pretty much everything would need to do a lot of stuff to everyone at the same time, and the card can go wrong far too easily than something like Pandemonium or Confusion in the Ranks. That's the main reason why i wont include it in my list.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
DCI Level 1 Judge
Solutions are available though. You can always stick in an Oblivion Stone or Karn, Planeswalker. Another way to stop Zur in his tracks is to include the new red anti-tutor - Strangehold.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Chaos Warp
2r Instant
Warp target permanent's World.
Stranglehold
3r Enchantment
Your opponents can't search libraries.
If an opponent would begin an extra turn, that player skips that turn instead.
Now... what to cut?
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Currently playing:
UW Modern Tron WU
UR Modern Storm RU
UW [CARD]Rasputin Dreamweaver
[/CARD] UW
Yup. Didn't like it at all. Only good on occasion. A card that defenitely doesnt fit in here due to lack of direct damage, but it probably goes well in a Squee deck.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
The reason i wont consider this is actually one of hatred for the card. While drafting that set, within three tournaments i opened no less than 7 of it. I refuse to use that card anymore, even if it served me well during drafts.
Thank you
------------------------------------
Still can't decide on what to cut for Chaos Warp minimum and Stranglehold secondarily.
Thinking blasphemous thoughts of Krark's Thumb and Hoarding Dragon. Chaos Warp is too good not to add.
And...
Foil Norin in the Mail. Celebrate the $2.42 it cost for shipping and the card itself!
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Scrambleverse 6RR
Sorcery (R)
For each nonland permanent, choose a player at random. Then each player gains control of each permanent for which he or she was chosen. Untap those permanents.
Sometimes a little chaos is in order.
I guess it's pretty good..
One thing that irks me about Norin is that it has practically no answer to beatdown. If your opponents' decide to paint a target on your face, you are sure to go down. Against swarm decks, you can't even trade your Myr tokens for anything useful.
Did you try something like Goblin Sharpshooter? Or Pyrohemia or sth..
Team Brolo
PTQ Honolulu Top 8, 2010 Wisconsin Regionals 2nd place
Gawd I love this deck.
EDIT: I also want to find a way to fit in Reiterate. You've probably tested it, Gaka, what do you think of it?
EDIT 2: That new one-sided Pandemonium is smexy for this deck. Mmmmmm YEAH!
@Mikey - Momentarily.
@Zalachan - Scrambleverse just seems like too much fun not to use, or at least try out. And i completely agree about the beatdown. There isn't much I can do, which is a problem that needs to be fixed. Goblin Sharpshooter is a good idea, i use it in Lyzolda to insane effect, so i believe it would do something similar here.
@Yoshi - I have come to this conclusion as well. Too many times i've searched for nothing because my opponents are white and i'd rather not get 2 for 1'd. while losing a tool. If i have kiki in hand, then i'd be happy to cast dragon.. otherwise it can go die in a fire.
@shishi - Shattering Pulse has been tried before, but When using the discard/draw engines, it sucked. A lot. Outrage Shaman wont go anytime soon, it's too valuable as spot removal. Mox Opal does need a change, and yes, Tangle Wire is a little random now. Though it is fun going Tangle Wire -> Scullpting Steel.
Reiterate isn't in anymore on the same lines as Pulse, it was in here for several months until i tossed it. The Pandemonium will be guaranteed a spot. Holy crap.
Also - Planning to get the Norin altered to feature a Kamina Cape and Glasses from Gurren Lagann, which is probably the most epic show on the face of the planet if you havent seen it.
Plans:
-Hoarding Dragon
-Inpulsive Maneauvers (probably spelled wrong)
-Tangle Wire
-Mox Opal
+some aggro stopper that doesnt have the ability to backfire spectacularly.
+Chaos Warp
+Stranglehold
+Some Ramp
And then wait for M12 and so many goodies.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Check out my EDH/Commander primer for Vorosh, the Hunter
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showt...10#post6907410
The primer is currently very far out of date and needs re-writing. If you're interested in any info or actually seeing it redone please pm me.
Imagining Norin throwing galaxies at opponents...I approve of this. When (if) done, I so wanna see this! Actually, I'd want one myself too
Norin's new flavour text : "Who the h*ll do you think I am?!"
Norin actually compares nicely to Gurren Lagann. It just keeps keeps rolling and rolling, bigger and bigger until things are just out of control and insane.
Smokestack does not seem like a terrible card at all in your list. I'm not sure how it would be if you don't have tokens swarming up is the thing.
Maybe Ensaring Bridge? since most of your guys are small? meh?
Shunt? I've mentioned this card before but Fork effects are one of the if not THE most powerful things red has so having another, even if it is slightly worse against most spells, but better against a few could be put to use.
I also think you should strongly reconsider Godo only because it tutors for the best card in your deck
Currently playing:
UW Modern Tron WU
UR Modern Storm RU
UW [CARD]Rasputin Dreamweaver
[/CARD] UW
Have you tested Meekstone to slow aggro a bit?
My 1994 Magic Cube
Japanese cards on eBay -- Legacy, Modern, EDH, Cube.