Also after reading the past few pages and given my recent games I think it's about time for me to hang T&L up for a while and build a Melek list, I just can't seem to find a happy spot for any kind of consistency, when the deck works I normally storm the entire table out but the other guys decks are getting faster and much more agressive and I just can't keep pace.
I can pick out a couple improvements for you to help a bit. I think you are missing some key elements of how this deck ticks and it's hurting your attempts to adjust.
Most of these cards are pretty questionable. Especially Omniscience here. You don't have enough card draw at all to make Omniscience do anything for you but flame out. Haze of Rage and Ruby Medallion is a nice little mini-combo but other than that blue cost reducers are way more important than red ones.
In:
Guttersnipe (You need another win condition other than T+L and SB Wand)
Diviner's Wand (great with wheels which you need to be playing)
Anger (dump it in the yard to a wheel and never look back, allows Talrand surprise hypercombofinish)
Psychosis Crawler (?, tends to get nuked a lot but your threat density is quite low so I'd at least consider it, otherwise how bout another draw 7 in Diminishing Returns)
Molten Psyche (another great finisher with wheels in tow)
I'm sure there's a lot more that can be done there. Basically what it looks like to me is that you wanted to go T+L Aggro but left out the most important part. The engine that keeps the whole thing is WHEELS. WHEELS WHEELS WHEEEEELS. Looking at this list, if I had to guess how your games were going, you are out of cards in hand by turn 6 or 7 and have no gas and no plan after your general is dead. You're stuck in topdeck mode hoping to chain a ritual into an Experiment which probably isn't enough anyway. The thing that keeps us going in Izzet colors is the TOTALLY BUSTED card advantage of Wheel of Fortune and friends and you are leaving them on the sidelines. You don't have to have Wheel of Fortune specifically, if budget is an issue (which I doubt because Gravity Sphere is not cheap). For budget wheels you have Reforge the Soul, Windfall, Diminishing Returns, hell even Time Reversal is playable if you don't exactly have a Time Spiral lying around. Anyway with the wheels you can be sure you never run out of gas and you can play off effects that care about card draw and hand size, and also you get the synergy with the size of your yard too. Diviner's Wand and Molten Psyche have been killing my opponents for a year now. The wheels also make Runechanter's Pike and flashback in general very very good. They also break the ever-living crap out of Dream Halls-- since cards=mana with that in play, you want to be the one with all the cards. Your opponents will draw as well but Psyche can easily make them pay for that. Plagiarize is another favorite around here but it's a bit more advanced of a card so I recommend it once you get the hang of playing with more wheels.
I think if you make some changes similar to the ones above you will see your win rate increase as your deck will start to function more like the ones in this thread rather than just looking like them without the real gas that makes them go. Let us know if you have more questions and good luck with it!
For the record I think Melek has a lot more blowout potential and just a bit more consistency that T+L and I prefer him so far. Winning through combat damage just seems difficult compared to the things Melek lets you do.
--------------
Oh and also as a PSA for anyone who cares: If you buy ONE red card for Commander.. just one out of all the red cards you can buy... make it Wheel of Fortune for Pete's sake. It's just incredible card advantage and it's the best thing red has going for it. Do you see this:
Restricted in Vintage (Type 1)
Banned in Legacy (Type 1.5)
Restricted in Classic (MTGO) Legal in Commander
This should tell you something!
It's under 10 bucks but it probably won't be forever. (side note: literally the day before I went to get the judge foil a couple months ago, the price went from 30 to 50 bucks and now it's like 60 or more). Just get your Wheel and be happy drawing cards! /rant
So im trying to get me melek list up and running (heavily based off the skeleton sonik posted earlier in the thread) and I want opinions.
A couple notes, both about the landbase.
1. I'll add the appropriate cards like bluffs and such soon, I was just wanting to test
2. Why am I split between snow and non-snow? Mainly due to a player in my main group running Wake of Destruction and me trying to avoid a massive hurting from it. Its a switch that does nothing to harm and can potentially help the deck.
So im trying to get me melek list up and running (heavily based off the skeleton sonik posted earlier in the thread) and I want opinions.
A couple notes, both about the landbase.
1. I'll add the appropriate cards like bluffs and such soon, I was just wanting to test
2. Why am I split between snow and non-snow? Mainly due to a player in my main group running Wake of Destruction and me trying to avoid a massive hurting from it. Its a switch that does nothing to harm and can potentially help the deck.
I think that your deck only has 98 cards. One of the cards that is missing is Melek himself, but that still only makes 99 out of 100. Any idea what the other card is? I'm going over some of the lists in this thread to try and come up with my own build.
Listing provides a link to the card which is a nice thing to have.
I like Izzet Boilerworks a lot in this deck. The turn you go off will typically involve Turnabout, hopefully multiple Turnabouts, making lands that tap for more than one mana pretty handy.
Sonik, what does your most updated list look like? I found the one from like a month ago when Melek was first revealed, but I'm assuming you have updated it since then?
Holy crap, thanks for the response, how you explained is generally how my games did end up, either I've one shot everyone at the table or I have a few near death and am just top decking or all-inning on Epic Experiment, have been noticing I needed more draw+ramp but was overall unsure what to take out as alot of the cards I had in had won me games at different times(bad mindset I know) with the exception being Mirari, did end up removing that last night, the only reason Omniscience stayed in was it had a 100% winrate in the 6 or so times I've played it but will make the changes suggested and give it a shot at tonights game and see how it goes!
Also as to budget this is my one deck that I have a no holds barred kind of thing going on so that's not an issue.
I think I'll end up making two seperate decks with T&L being the aggro spell list and Melek being more of the goofy chain 40 spells then grapeshot the table kind of list as T&L are still alot of fun to play but it'd be nice to change up the crazy Izzet shenanigans every now and again.
Thanks again
Private Mod Note
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EDH: 1v1 UB Sygg, River Cutthroat Multiplayer RR Rakka Mar UR Tibor and Lumia
Sonik, what does your most updated list look like? I found the one from like a month ago when Melek was first revealed, but I'm assuming you have updated it since then?
It's still very similar. List is here for reference. I haven't made too many changes to it if any. I've only played 3 games with him at the helm so far since last week I busted out my boy Riku for a couple games. Anyway I'll get to play it tomorrow so I suppose I'll be back with another combo recap and I'll see if I've got any significant differences in the last list or changes to report.
The only thing I can say for sure that will be different is that Possibility Storm is definitely, absolutely going into this deck... I just have to find room for it. I have 4 cards I would hate to P-storm into in Mind's Desire, Epic Experiment and Ignite Memories and Comet Storm so it's possible Mind's Desire or Comet Storm will take a seat. Probably Comet Storm because at least PStorm triggers help to up your storm count. The Izzet Cluestone and Turn and Burn seem reasonable as well (I will almost certainly play this as one of my friends is debuting a Tajic deck this weekend).
@Donald Izzet Boilerworks is pretty good in here isn't it? I still worry about the random slime targeting it and I have a somewhat vindictive playgroup who loves to take revenge shots... but untapping it with Turnabout even once is great.
@Donald Izzet Boilerworks is pretty good in here isn't it? I still worry about the random slime targeting it and I have a somewhat vindictive playgroup who loves to take revenge shots... but untapping it with Turnabout even once is great.
10/4/2004: If the land produces more than one color of mana at a single time, its controller chooses which of those types is produced by Mana Flare's ability.
Unfortunately Mana Flare doesn't interact with it any better than a basic land unless you count the *extra* fixing.
Unfortunately Mana Flare doesn't interact with it any better than a basic land unless you count the *extra* fixing.
Yes, I know.. I should have written an entire post.
I was just saying the mana flare is great as it make all your land produce 2. Now if only we could get another red mana flare like card, i'd be so happy. Even a ritual like 1R, Until end of turn all lands you control produce an additional ... etc.
Is that still in Red's color pie or is it gone and only in Green?
Yes, I know.. I should have written an entire post.
I was just saying the mana flare is great as it make all your land produce 2. Now if only we could get another red mana flare like card, i'd be so happy. Even a ritual like 1R, Until end of turn all lands you control produce an additional ... etc.
Is that still in Red's color pie or is it gone and only in Green?
I think if it causes your lands to generate additional mana it is almost certainly stuck in green. Red typically adds a static amount of mana to your mana pool. The most recent rituals I can remember are Geosurge, Battle Hymn and Infernal Plunge. None of these do anything for us currently but who wouldn't want to see something like "Add to your mana pool for each instant and sorcery in your graveyard"? I think we might get another good one eventually but it will very likely not reference our lands.
TimeWarp.dec sounds like a Melek deck. Seems doable to me if not a little boring to play against. I'm sure there's ways to go infinite with Reito Lantern and Mystical Tutor shenanigans as well. The steal makes a lot more sense in T+L or Nin, the Pain Artist where you can do silly stuff with Charisma and have a steal and sac sort of theme. I've done this with Nin and it's a lot of fun.
I tested the wheel version briefly and found myself not really doing much of anything and accidentally milling out.
Don't know what to say other than if you're drawing your deck and losing you're doing it wrong. Past in Flames alone should win you the game if nothing else.
Unless of course you're doing it for fun
(BTW , "wheel version"? The wheels are the defining feature of the deck. It's the "non-wheel version" that would be notable.)
Yes, I know.. I should have written an entire post.
I was just saying the mana flare is great as it make all your land produce 2. Now if only we could get another red mana flare like card, i'd be so happy. Even a ritual like 1R, Until end of turn all lands you control produce an additional ... etc.
Is that still in Red's color pie or is it gone and only in Green?
I've been testing out High Tide with good results. Obviously takes a pretty Island heavy mana base. You can even cast it multiple times potentially giving you even more mana than Mana Flare.
I've been testing out High Tide with good results. Obviously takes a pretty Island heavy mana base. You can even cast it multiple times potentially giving you even more mana than Mana Flare.
I would hit a few wheels in an Epic Experiment, then have to pitch all my rituals, leaving 0 mana for any past in flames value
Exile the top X cards of your library. For each instant and sorcery card with converted mana cost X or less among them, you may cast that card without paying its mana cost. Then put all cards exiled this way that weren't cast into your graveyard.
You don't have to cast them. Also, I don't like Epic Experiment in our decks. It does nothing with Halls.
I have Increasing Vengeance on my list. It does work
Dream halls, yes I want. I don't own one. I would put it in for sure.
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/36546
My Peasant Cube Forum
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/682833-360-peasant-hasteds-cube
My Riviera Live Draft Cube
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/35647
And so it is, right on top of the list as well, face-to-palm.
Nice list by the way!
1v1
UB Sygg, River Cutthroat
Multiplayer
RR Rakka Mar
UR Tibor and Lumia
I can pick out a couple improvements for you to help a bit. I think you are missing some key elements of how this deck ticks and it's hurting your attempts to adjust.
Out:
Most of these cards are pretty questionable. Especially Omniscience here. You don't have enough card draw at all to make Omniscience do anything for you but flame out. Haze of Rage and Ruby Medallion is a nice little mini-combo but other than that blue cost reducers are way more important than red ones.
In:
I'm sure there's a lot more that can be done there. Basically what it looks like to me is that you wanted to go T+L Aggro but left out the most important part. The engine that keeps the whole thing is WHEELS. WHEELS WHEELS WHEEEEELS. Looking at this list, if I had to guess how your games were going, you are out of cards in hand by turn 6 or 7 and have no gas and no plan after your general is dead. You're stuck in topdeck mode hoping to chain a ritual into an Experiment which probably isn't enough anyway. The thing that keeps us going in Izzet colors is the TOTALLY BUSTED card advantage of Wheel of Fortune and friends and you are leaving them on the sidelines. You don't have to have Wheel of Fortune specifically, if budget is an issue (which I doubt because Gravity Sphere is not cheap). For budget wheels you have Reforge the Soul, Windfall, Diminishing Returns, hell even Time Reversal is playable if you don't exactly have a Time Spiral lying around. Anyway with the wheels you can be sure you never run out of gas and you can play off effects that care about card draw and hand size, and also you get the synergy with the size of your yard too. Diviner's Wand and Molten Psyche have been killing my opponents for a year now. The wheels also make Runechanter's Pike and flashback in general very very good. They also break the ever-living crap out of Dream Halls-- since cards=mana with that in play, you want to be the one with all the cards. Your opponents will draw as well but Psyche can easily make them pay for that. Plagiarize is another favorite around here but it's a bit more advanced of a card so I recommend it once you get the hang of playing with more wheels.
I think if you make some changes similar to the ones above you will see your win rate increase as your deck will start to function more like the ones in this thread rather than just looking like them without the real gas that makes them go. Let us know if you have more questions and good luck with it!
For the record I think Melek has a lot more blowout potential and just a bit more consistency that T+L and I prefer him so far. Winning through combat damage just seems difficult compared to the things Melek lets you do.
--------------
Oh and also as a PSA for anyone who cares: If you buy ONE red card for Commander.. just one out of all the red cards you can buy... make it Wheel of Fortune for Pete's sake. It's just incredible card advantage and it's the best thing red has going for it. Do you see this:
Restricted in Vintage (Type 1)
Banned in Legacy (Type 1.5)
Restricted in Classic (MTGO)
Legal in Commander
This should tell you something!
It's under 10 bucks but it probably won't be forever. (side note: literally the day before I went to get the judge foil a couple months ago, the price went from 30 to 50 bucks and now it's like 60 or more). Just get your Wheel and be happy drawing cards! /rant
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE*
*LS
15 minutes could save you 15 percent or more on car insurance
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
A couple notes, both about the landbase.
1. I'll add the appropriate cards like bluffs and such soon, I was just wanting to test
2. Why am I split between snow and non-snow? Mainly due to a player in my main group running Wake of Destruction and me trying to avoid a massive hurting from it. Its a switch that does nothing to harm and can potentially help the deck.
So here is my v1.0 list.
1 Melek, Izzet Paragon
Artifact:
1 Catalyst Stone
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Helm of Awakening
1 Izzet Signet
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Mana Vault
1 Runechanter's Pike
1 Sapphire Medallion
1 Sensei's Diving Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Stone Calender
1 Torpor Orb
1 Vedalken Orrery
Creature:
1 Deranged Assistant
1 Goblin Electromancer
1 Guttersnipe
1 Lunar Mystic
1 Merfolk Looter
1 River Kelpie
1 Talrand, Sky Summoner
Enchantment
1 Arcane Melee
1 Dream Halls
1 Future Sight
1 Leyline of Anticipation
1 Mana Flare
1 Secrets of the Dead
1 Arcane Denial
1 Brainstorm
1 Cerebral Vortex
1 Chaos Warp
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Frantic Search
1 Impulse
1 Increasing Vengeance
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Oona's Grace
1 Plagiarize
1 Pongify
1 Quicken
1 Rapid Hybridization
1 Remand
1 Snap
1 Turnabout
Land
1 Arid Mesa
8 Island
1 Misty Rainforest
8 Mountain
1 Scalding Tarn
5 Snow-Covered Island
5 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Taimyo, the Moon Sage
Sorcery
1 Call to Mind
1 Deep Analysis
1 Epic Experiment
1 Flame Jab
1 Gamble
1 Ignite Memories
1 Mana Geyser
1 Mind's Desire
1 Molten Psyche
1 Mystic Retrieval
1 Past in Flames
1 Recall
1 Recoup
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Time Spiral
1 Time Warp
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Windfall
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyI think that your deck only has 98 cards. One of the cards that is missing is Melek himself, but that still only makes 99 out of 100. Any idea what the other card is? I'm going over some of the lists in this thread to try and come up with my own build.
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
And I put melek in the title.... I waffle on listing it sometimes
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyI like Izzet Boilerworks a lot in this deck. The turn you go off will typically involve Turnabout, hopefully multiple Turnabouts, making lands that tap for more than one mana pretty handy.
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Holy crap, thanks for the response, how you explained is generally how my games did end up, either I've one shot everyone at the table or I have a few near death and am just top decking or all-inning on Epic Experiment, have been noticing I needed more draw+ramp but was overall unsure what to take out as alot of the cards I had in had won me games at different times(bad mindset I know) with the exception being Mirari, did end up removing that last night, the only reason Omniscience stayed in was it had a 100% winrate in the 6 or so times I've played it but will make the changes suggested and give it a shot at tonights game and see how it goes!
Also as to budget this is my one deck that I have a no holds barred kind of thing going on so that's not an issue.
I think I'll end up making two seperate decks with T&L being the aggro spell list and Melek being more of the goofy chain 40 spells then grapeshot the table kind of list as T&L are still alot of fun to play but it'd be nice to change up the crazy Izzet shenanigans every now and again.
Thanks again
1v1
UB Sygg, River Cutthroat
Multiplayer
RR Rakka Mar
UR Tibor and Lumia
It's still very similar. List is here for reference. I haven't made too many changes to it if any. I've only played 3 games with him at the helm so far since last week I busted out my boy Riku for a couple games. Anyway I'll get to play it tomorrow so I suppose I'll be back with another combo recap and I'll see if I've got any significant differences in the last list or changes to report.
The only thing I can say for sure that will be different is that Possibility Storm is definitely, absolutely going into this deck... I just have to find room for it. I have 4 cards I would hate to P-storm into in Mind's Desire, Epic Experiment and Ignite Memories and Comet Storm so it's possible Mind's Desire or Comet Storm will take a seat. Probably Comet Storm because at least PStorm triggers help to up your storm count. The Izzet Cluestone and Turn and Burn seem reasonable as well (I will almost certainly play this as one of my friends is debuting a Tajic deck this weekend).
@Donald Izzet Boilerworks is pretty good in here isn't it? I still worry about the random slime targeting it and I have a somewhat vindictive playgroup who loves to take revenge shots... but untapping it with Turnabout even once is great.
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
Mmm... Mana Flare.. yum!
Unfortunately Mana Flare doesn't interact with it any better than a basic land unless you count the *extra* fixing.
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
Yes, I know.. I should have written an entire post.
I was just saying the mana flare is great as it make all your land produce 2. Now if only we could get another red mana flare like card, i'd be so happy. Even a ritual like 1R, Until end of turn all lands you control produce an additional ... etc.
Is that still in Red's color pie or is it gone and only in Green?
I'm testing something with Beacon of Tomorrows, Time Warp, Temporal Mastery, Walk The Aeons, Time Stretch and Acquire, Bribery, Knowledge Exploitation, Blatant Thievery
I think if it causes your lands to generate additional mana it is almost certainly stuck in green. Red typically adds a static amount of mana to your mana pool. The most recent rituals I can remember are Geosurge, Battle Hymn and Infernal Plunge. None of these do anything for us currently but who wouldn't want to see something like "Add to your mana pool for each instant and sorcery in your graveyard"? I think we might get another good one eventually but it will very likely not reference our lands.
TimeWarp.dec sounds like a Melek deck. Seems doable to me if not a little boring to play against. I'm sure there's ways to go infinite with Reito Lantern and Mystical Tutor shenanigans as well. The steal makes a lot more sense in T+L or Nin, the Pain Artist where you can do silly stuff with Charisma and have a steal and sac sort of theme. I've done this with Nin and it's a lot of fun.
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
I mill out intentionally for the lulz.
Don't know what to say other than if you're drawing your deck and losing you're doing it wrong. Past in Flames alone should win you the game if nothing else.
Unless of course you're doing it for fun
(BTW , "wheel version"? The wheels are the defining feature of the deck. It's the "non-wheel version" that would be notable.)
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
I've been testing out High Tide with good results. Obviously takes a pretty Island heavy mana base. You can even cast it multiple times potentially giving you even more mana than Mana Flare.
If you're accidentally milling out try out Laboratory Maniac.
I used to run High Tide, but cut it as I wasn't having any mana problems with Halls in play. Do you run that broken card in your 99?
You don't have to cast them. Also, I don't like Epic Experiment in our decks. It does nothing with Halls.