Here is my deck list, please let me know what suggestions you might make.
My meta consists of Hapatra, Prosh, Zur, Animar, Meren,Titania, Niv Mizit, 8.5 Tails, Saskia and Avacyn. There are a couple of random people that show up with different decks, but it is pretty well the same. I want the build to be a consistent turn 4 or 5 combo/kill. I have included most relevant combos and/or silver bullets and replaced some of the missing cards with counters as suggested.
I'd run a couple more artifact creatures, especially those that interfere with opponent's strategies, like Phyrexian Revoker. They mess with opponents for a couple turns, and then they can be used as Arcum sac fodder, which is a plus. Having around 20-22 artifact dudes makes going off on the third or fourth turn fairly consistent, which is nice (as you need at least two of them). Myr Retriever is an important card to run- it's Junk Diver, but better (lower mana cost, flying is negligible). I do recommend running both of them as they give a solid backup option for infinite mana, and you basically have no reason to not run it. Remove Padeem, Consul of Invocation for it (Padeem doesn't really do much, as he doesn't protect Arcum and also competes with Arcum at the same mana cost). Millikin is very good, and Myr Moonvessel/Hope of Ghirapur are still useful if you had to use a 0 drop to grab either Paradox Engine or Flute. As you grab Engine > Flute > and then if only have 1 0 drop left, you spend that 0 drop to get Basalt Monolith, which lets you tutor the 1 drop and cast it with one mana floating. If the next creature you could cast is a 2 drop, Monolith alone wouldn't give you enough mana and your combo chain would stop there if you didn't already have the spare mana- which happens sometimes.
But the artifact dudes are important, and right now you run, what, 14 of them + the 3 lands? I've been doing 19 + 3, since two of them relatively necessary to launch the combo. Around 20 should be fine, though, so I'd at least add Phyrexian Revoker, Millikin, and a 1 drop to bring you up to 20 artifact creatures you can sac. Around 1/4th of the time you should naturally draw 2 artifact dudes/lands that turn into dudes, that way. Otherwise, you have tutors and Artificer's Intuition to help improve those odds to around half the time.
You only have 4 counters, which seems pretty rough. However, to really accommodate more counters, you would really need to remove the fluff artifact cards. Since you can win with Arcum in one turn, I really don't see much point in using Possessed Portal any longer, along with Unwinding Clock, Clock of Omens, Myr Turbine (unnecessary now that you run Citanul Flute, I'd do one or the other, not both), and Null Brooch which is, outside of some extreme corner cases involving casting instants, basically a nonbo with Paradox Engine: Pulling Brooch in an emergency and using it vs pulling Paradox Engine basically cuts off your path to win via that route. So, you pull it to respond to a guy casting Food Chain or Doomsday, and you effectively just played Kingmaker to keep that player from winning while another takes advantage of the fact that one of this three opponents can't stop him any longer, outside of corner cases that would have been better spent winning anyway. I just run more counter spells over it now (I run 5 more than you, making them more available and leaves me to tap Arcum to win while I just have the disruption in my hand). Muddle the Mixture and Pact of Negation, at least, seem worth inclusion.
That's my $.02, anyway. More artifact creatures to sac and more counters. I play Arcum in a meta of Zur (ADN/Doomsday Zur, not Voltron or whatever), Jeleva, Yidris, Tazri, Prossh, Karador, Thrasios, etc.. Tazri and Thrasios recently switched to a Flash/Hulk list, which has been fun to deal with. There's was also an Animar, Breya, etc., that float around too. I upped my counters specifically to handle these kind of decks. I dropped the 'larger' combos because I either go for the Engine win, or I don't get enough time to utilize anything else (Portal, Disk, Lattice, and Forge). I just use the aritfact dorks that return artifacts back to hand, rather than make them indestructible. I'm not 100% certain you'll have to do that, though. Food Chain Prossh is *somewhat* easy to handle if you mulligan to the right hands (your goal will be to interrupt Food Chain, as they can windmill slam it turn 2 and win. Flusterstorm and Swan Song will be important there). To make it worse, a lot of your silver bullets don't really touch Prossh since it's all about chaining creatures- Tangle Wire/Static Orb is worth mulliganing to as you won't have time to tutor it off Arcum. If Zur is Doomsday/Ad Nauseam, then you'll have a similar problem as with Prossh except Thorn of Amethyst will do some exception work here, since they ramp hard to five or six mana in a turn or two to Doomsday or Ad Nauseam + Angel's Grace (or just value Ad Nauseam to tutors/Doomsday). Phyrexian Revoker can hit mana rocks, which I find worth mentioning, especially if there's a suspicious Grim Monolith or something laying on field in preparation for a larger play. The opponent won't know *what* Revoker has chosen until after it's resolved and in play- you do not choose the card while it's on the stack, so opponents have to counter it blind, which I have used a couple times to interfere with t2 Food Chains, Selvalas, Mox Diamonds to prevent Doomsday/Ad Nauseam when they'd otherwise have the proper colors of mana, etc.. The rest of the decks you mentioned shouldn't cause you any trouble at all, I mean, maybe Meren or Hapatra if you're not careful, but that's about it lol.
I tend to ramble when talking about this deck, so apologies for most of the above as it's probably excessively verbose.
So it's been about a month and I've only been able to get two games in with this deck since last discussion (I built Paradox Engine Sisay, Daretti, changed my Nekusar to Locust God, etc., so I've been mucking with those each week).
The first was a pretty standard game. It was Tazri, Prossh, Vorel and myself in a game. Tazri flashed in Hulk and I Whir of Invention'd into Tormod's Crypt and he laughed (apparently that was his only line of play because he did nothing for the rest of the game). Vorel countered Prossh's Food Chain, and I forced Arcum through on t6 using Pact and a 1cmc counter while Elixir was on field, so I got to go straight for the Paradox Engine play and win. I found myself needing more mana, though, which was a complaint I had often before. Also, with Citanul Flute, Snapcaster Mage seems too good to not have, and I luckily have a spare floating around in my binder, so I tried that out in the second game and it was phenomenal even with only 17 instants/sorceries.
The Zur, Jeleva, and Yidris players both apparently moved away from Pittsburgh, so the strongest decks here right now are either Thrasios+Tymna or Tazri, which win via Flash Hulk, Hermit Druid, and Food Chain combos. I'm currently the only one with a Zur Doomsday list, so I may pull some of the stax cards that slow down Storm/ADN decks as they're not exactly necessary when the most troublesome combos they have are an instant + a sac outlet and a big freaking creature.
Heavily debating about re-adding Guardian Idol and Mind Stone, as getting Engine stuck in hand sucks badly, and more mana rocks makes playing with more counters easier on top of making third turn Arcum easier (which seems very necessary). Defense Grid is going out for one of them, for sure, as I have to play more proactively with counters to stop Flash Hulk which straight up wins faster. Torpor Orb hasn't had reason to be tutored for a while, so I'm going to sideboard it since Blink/Flicker doesn't hang around the competitive pods.
Anyway, changes I'm testing tomorrow after work:
- Grid
- Static Orb/Tangle Wire
- Thorn of Amethyst
- Torpor Orb to sideboard, dropping Neurok Stealthsuit entirely
- 2 Island
- Arcane Denial
- Swiftfoot Boots
+ Mind Stone
+ Guardian Idol
+ Snapcaster Mage
+ Gitaxian Probe
+ Riptide Laboratory (someone at the shop gave me the idea to use this to return and re-cast Trophy Mage to assemble Monolith + Rings + Staff during games I can't stick Arcum. Idea came up when a Cyclonic Rift was popped on t5 to prevent Hulk shenanigans and my re-casting of Trophy Mage let me collect Rings, which let me go off after replaying all of my fast mana. Seems absolutely horrible, but it's a colorless land slot so I don't feel it's that big of a deal to try it out).
+ Delay
+ Force of Will
I think it's time to put Force back in, as well, as over a quarter of my deck is now blue which I feel is enough to support both it and Chrome Mox, now. Boots has sucked every single time I've drawn it for the last little while, so it's out for Force. My best tools against what is regularly played in my meta appears to be Back to Basics and Grafdigger's Cage/Tormod's Crypt, though some players have been trying to convince me to use Relic of Progenitus instead, and I may try it since I have some laying about.
How has everyone else's lists been doing? My list is still the same as the last post, minus swapping Windfall for Trophy Mage.
As Sorcerous Spyglass enters the battlefield, look at an opponent's hand, then choose any card name.
Activated abilities of sources with the chosen name can't be activated unless they're mana abilities.
----
Looks good to me.
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Hey Pook, Protean Hulk is currently the star of the show in the cEDH scene, and for good reason. Being able to win on T2-T3 consistently is pretty frightening as an opponent. Grafdigger's Cage is one of my highest priority tutor targets now, and Trinket Mage has become that much more valuable to me as a card.
I changed my Memnarch list to incorporate Paradox Engine, and it's been fantastic. It turns all of the mana rocks in the deck into absurd ramp pieces and it enables a huge mana dump into Memnarch's ability to steal a massive amount of opponent's cards in a single turn cycle. And it sometimes lets me win with all of the card draw.
Have you considered [CARD]Pull from Tomorrow[/CARD? I know it's not conducive to the overall game plan, but I've found that it gets me a great deal of card advantage in the long game, when other cEDH decks are running low on cards. What are your thoughts on it?
Cards You Shouldn't Run
Ornithopter, Memnite, etc. - As I explained earlier, free dorks might seem enticing, but they're actually the worst kind because they don't do anything helpful, as opposed to other dorks which grant tempo or card advantage. Arcum is NOT an affinity deck; simply loading up our board with cheap artifacts does not help us.
You say not to run these, yet the list you have featured in the Primer has both of these. Clarification please?
Cards You Shouldn't Run
Ornithopter, Memnite, etc. - As I explained earlier, free dorks might seem enticing, but they're actually the worst kind because they don't do anything helpful, as opposed to other dorks which grant tempo or card advantage. Arcum is NOT an affinity deck; simply loading up our board with cheap artifacts does not help us.
You say not to run these, yet the list you have featured in the Primer has both of these. Clarification please?
He forgot to edit it. Prior to the printing of Paradox Engine, those were bad cards to run. Now, they allow winning on the same turn given a set of circumstances via Citanul Flute.
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When I first saw Paradox Engine, I thought of Dagsson. Haven't built the deck yet, so take what I say with
a big grain of salt. However, I'm shocked by no shrieking drake, which immediately goes infinite mana
with PE,even without AD.
^Shrieking Drake is only infinite if you have a U-producing mana rock/dork AND another mana rock/dork. Also, Shrieking Drake is dead outside the combo. Personally, I don't see the need for it.
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Myr Retriever is an important card to run- it's Junk Diver, but better (lower mana cost, flying is negligible). I do recommend running both of them as they give a solid backup option for infinite mana, and you basically have no reason to not run it.
Sorry if this has been gone over before, but how do the Myr Retriever / Junk Diver combo into infinite mana? Does it assume a sac outlet (Arcbound Ravager) + Paradox Engine + Artifact Mana sources for infinite cast triggers? If thats the case, why not Krark-Clan Ironworks as a sac outlet that you can tutor up with Arcum. I guess if you have PE online you probably have flute and can just get the Arcbound Ravager...
^Arcum will be your sac outlet. This assumes you do it all in one turn, have 1 creature in play, another in hand, and you have no other mana rocks. This setup will require at least 1 more mana after you cast your first spell to untap -
1: Arcum Tap (x creature), get Paradox Engine (PE).
2: Cast y creature, untap nonlands due to PE, Arcum Tap (sac y creature), get Citanul Flute (CF), search for Memnite (or any 0-drop) via CF.
3: Cast 0-drop, untap nonlands due to PE, Arcum Tap (sac 0-drop), get 3-mana rock (Mana Vault/Grim Monolith/Basalt Monolith/Thran Dynamo/Gilded Lotus) via Arcum, tap 3-mana rock (3 mana in pool), CF search for Myr Retriever (MR)(1 mana in pool).
4: Cast MR (-1 mana [hence the need to have that additional 1 mana]), untap nonlands due to PE, Arcum Tap (sac MR), get 0-drop back from GY via MR trigger, get another 3-mana rock via Arcum, tap both (6 mana in pool), search for Junk Diver/Workshop Assistant (JD/WA) via CF (3 mana in pool).
5: Cast 0-drop, untap nonlands due to PE, tap the 2 3-mana rocks (9 mana in pool), cast JD/WA (6 mana in pool), untap nonlands due to PE, tap the 2 3-mana rocks (12 mana in pool), Arcum tap (sac Junk Diver/Workshop Assistant), get Retriever back from GY via JD/WA trigger, search for any artifact. At this point, you can cycle through the MR and JD/WA, which will net you 1 mana from the 2 3-mana rocks each time.
No need for Krark-Clan Ironworks which is probably close to a dead card majority of the time.
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you're better off getting something better
if you're hand is so bad and desperate to go waste a tutor for a land and then waste the recursion let alone the time to set the repeatable recursion then you should have mulled not to mention you need mana to activate and it's only to your hand so you have very circumstantial use for it in which that'd be for a super desperate hard cast of a high drop after having a lot of power cards previously gutted such as your lotus or other rocks though there would be ways to chain it if not infinite the land fetch however the point of doing so would be none unless you go way off base of what your commander is meant for
in the whole time you scramble for that though you could much more easily just assemble a 2-3 card engine like nothing the wins your game on the spot
however to each their own
my list goes against a lot of what the OP said not to do and frankly i'm only here because i've never faced or even seen another decklist for AD before but my deck consistently goes off T2-4 and has won me plenty of starcity mats and pins and if it doesn't fire off that quick it rolls over and plays dead but then no one bothers me and it instantly blows up in their face such as escaping a mindslaver while transitioning turns by performing a burn combo
That being said my deck also isn't finished due to money constraints such as needing a workshop and transmute artifact and inkmoth but with how it runs you'd never know it wasn't finished but those simple fine tune swaps may not seem a big deal but then it just moves smoother and smoother
once i figure out how i'll gladly put up my list
I still play Expedition Map. More than being a possible critter fetcher (Mishra's Factory, Inkmoth,and Blinkmoth), it can get you specialized lands like Cavern of Souls or Hall of the Bandit Lord, which could easily win you the game in a given scenario. I think the flexibility of the options it gives you makes it a worthwhile card in the deck.
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About a month late, but cards I'd avoid running from the list you posted are Recurring Insight (too much mana), Neurok Stealthsuit (instant speed equip used to be awesome, but now you really just want haste and that's it. Thousand-Year Elixir can be an MVP sometimes), and Aetherflux Reservoir.
You also don't really need all of the 0 drop dudes. I'd swap one of those out for Hangarback Walker since he pulls double duty (you only need two dudes to sac before your Citanul Flute loops, and Walker provides both), and then maybe drop another for Myr Sire, who is roughly the same as Hangarback Walker Texas Ranger.
Gotta chime in here and offer my respects. I played against my friend's Arcum deck last Saturday and he had a solid opening hand that won on T3 through my disruption. I was playing my Dralnu Storm deck and my wife was playing her Kaalia Stax deck, both high quality decks (in my opinion, obviously), and Arcum was able to easily handle us with the right opening hand. Props there.
I don't know if you have a budget list/casual list that you maintain on the OP, but I think that the new Tezzeret, Artifice Master is worth a mention. He spawns artifact dudes for Arcum to sac, provides a great source of card advantage when the game stalls out, and can actually assemble your win condition via his ultimate (over the course of several turns, of course). I think he's too slow to be truly effective in a competitive list, but I think he's a decent inclusion.
I would also HIGHLY recommend the new Sai, Master Thopterist. He's really quite effective for what this deck is trying to do and actually makes tutoring for Skullclamp a not terrible proposition in mono-U. I like the fact that Sai makes bodies for Arcum to sac and makes the casting of your mana rocks and Stax pieces not entirely dead. Plus, he has card advantage stapled into his body too, so I think he's a great engine.
Hello I've been playing EDH for about 2 years now. Arcum was my first commander and basically my only commander.
I've done tons of testing over the short period of time I've been playing edh. But this is the list I've arrived on for the most part. ( It's a little set up for a 2h gaint tourney at the moment.)
My meta consists of Hapatra, Prosh, Zur, Animar, Meren,Titania, Niv Mizit, 8.5 Tails, Saskia and Avacyn. There are a couple of random people that show up with different decks, but it is pretty well the same. I want the build to be a consistent turn 4 or 5 combo/kill. I have included most relevant combos and/or silver bullets and replaced some of the missing cards with counters as suggested.
1x Academy Ruins
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Blinkmoth Nexus
1x Buried Ruin
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Crystal Vein
1x Darksteel Citadel
1x Flooded Strand
1x Gemstone Caverns
1x Hall of the Bandit Lord
1x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Inventors' Fair
1x Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1x Mishra's Factory
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Saprazzan Skerry
1x Seat of the Synod
1x Strip Mine
1x Svyelunite Temple
1 x Tolaria West
12x Island
Instants/Sorceries (13)
1x Brainstorm
1x Counterspell
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Flusterstorm
1x Fabricate
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Negate
1x Ponder
1x Reshape
1x Swan Song
1x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Whir of Invention
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
Creature (16)
1x Etherium Sculptor
1x Hangarback Walker
1x Hedron Crawler
1x Junk Diver
1x Manakin
1x Master Transmuter
1x Memnite
1x Metalworker
1x Millikin
1x Myr Sire
1x Ornithopter
1x Padeem, COnsul of Innovation
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Plague Myr
1x Silver Myr
1x Spellskite
1x Trinket Mage
1x Walking Ballista
Enchantments (1)
1x Mystic Remora
Artifact (324)
1x Basalt Monolith
1x Chalice of the Void
1x Citanul Flute
1x Clock of Omens
1x Darksteel Forge
1x Defense Grid
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Grim Monolith
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Lotus Petal
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Mox Diamond
1x Mycosynth Lattice
1x Myr Turbine
1x Nevinyrral's DIsk
1x Null Brooch
1x Paradox Engine
1x Pithing Needle
1x Possessed Portal
1x Rings of Brighthearth
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Skullclamp
1x Sol Ring
1x Staff of Domination
1x Static Orb
1x Swiftfoot Boots
1x Tangle Wire
1x Thorn of Amethyst
1x Thousand-Year Elixir
1x Torpor Orb
1x Unwinding Clock
1x Voltaic Key
1x Winter Orb
I'd run a couple more artifact creatures, especially those that interfere with opponent's strategies, like Phyrexian Revoker. They mess with opponents for a couple turns, and then they can be used as Arcum sac fodder, which is a plus. Having around 20-22 artifact dudes makes going off on the third or fourth turn fairly consistent, which is nice (as you need at least two of them). Myr Retriever is an important card to run- it's Junk Diver, but better (lower mana cost, flying is negligible). I do recommend running both of them as they give a solid backup option for infinite mana, and you basically have no reason to not run it. Remove Padeem, Consul of Invocation for it (Padeem doesn't really do much, as he doesn't protect Arcum and also competes with Arcum at the same mana cost). Millikin is very good, and Myr Moonvessel/Hope of Ghirapur are still useful if you had to use a 0 drop to grab either Paradox Engine or Flute. As you grab Engine > Flute > and then if only have 1 0 drop left, you spend that 0 drop to get Basalt Monolith, which lets you tutor the 1 drop and cast it with one mana floating. If the next creature you could cast is a 2 drop, Monolith alone wouldn't give you enough mana and your combo chain would stop there if you didn't already have the spare mana- which happens sometimes.
But the artifact dudes are important, and right now you run, what, 14 of them + the 3 lands? I've been doing 19 + 3, since two of them relatively necessary to launch the combo. Around 20 should be fine, though, so I'd at least add Phyrexian Revoker, Millikin, and a 1 drop to bring you up to 20 artifact creatures you can sac. Around 1/4th of the time you should naturally draw 2 artifact dudes/lands that turn into dudes, that way. Otherwise, you have tutors and Artificer's Intuition to help improve those odds to around half the time.
You only have 4 counters, which seems pretty rough. However, to really accommodate more counters, you would really need to remove the fluff artifact cards. Since you can win with Arcum in one turn, I really don't see much point in using Possessed Portal any longer, along with Unwinding Clock, Clock of Omens, Myr Turbine (unnecessary now that you run Citanul Flute, I'd do one or the other, not both), and Null Brooch which is, outside of some extreme corner cases involving casting instants, basically a nonbo with Paradox Engine: Pulling Brooch in an emergency and using it vs pulling Paradox Engine basically cuts off your path to win via that route. So, you pull it to respond to a guy casting Food Chain or Doomsday, and you effectively just played Kingmaker to keep that player from winning while another takes advantage of the fact that one of this three opponents can't stop him any longer, outside of corner cases that would have been better spent winning anyway. I just run more counter spells over it now (I run 5 more than you, making them more available and leaves me to tap Arcum to win while I just have the disruption in my hand). Muddle the Mixture and Pact of Negation, at least, seem worth inclusion.
That's my $.02, anyway. More artifact creatures to sac and more counters. I play Arcum in a meta of Zur (ADN/Doomsday Zur, not Voltron or whatever), Jeleva, Yidris, Tazri, Prossh, Karador, Thrasios, etc.. Tazri and Thrasios recently switched to a Flash/Hulk list, which has been fun to deal with. There's was also an Animar, Breya, etc., that float around too. I upped my counters specifically to handle these kind of decks. I dropped the 'larger' combos because I either go for the Engine win, or I don't get enough time to utilize anything else (Portal, Disk, Lattice, and Forge). I just use the aritfact dorks that return artifacts back to hand, rather than make them indestructible. I'm not 100% certain you'll have to do that, though. Food Chain Prossh is *somewhat* easy to handle if you mulligan to the right hands (your goal will be to interrupt Food Chain, as they can windmill slam it turn 2 and win. Flusterstorm and Swan Song will be important there). To make it worse, a lot of your silver bullets don't really touch Prossh since it's all about chaining creatures- Tangle Wire/Static Orb is worth mulliganing to as you won't have time to tutor it off Arcum. If Zur is Doomsday/Ad Nauseam, then you'll have a similar problem as with Prossh except Thorn of Amethyst will do some exception work here, since they ramp hard to five or six mana in a turn or two to Doomsday or Ad Nauseam + Angel's Grace (or just value Ad Nauseam to tutors/Doomsday). Phyrexian Revoker can hit mana rocks, which I find worth mentioning, especially if there's a suspicious Grim Monolith or something laying on field in preparation for a larger play. The opponent won't know *what* Revoker has chosen until after it's resolved and in play- you do not choose the card while it's on the stack, so opponents have to counter it blind, which I have used a couple times to interfere with t2 Food Chains, Selvalas, Mox Diamonds to prevent Doomsday/Ad Nauseam when they'd otherwise have the proper colors of mana, etc.. The rest of the decks you mentioned shouldn't cause you any trouble at all, I mean, maybe Meren or Hapatra if you're not careful, but that's about it lol.
I tend to ramble when talking about this deck, so apologies for most of the above as it's probably excessively verbose.
Sig and Avatar drawn by me.
The first was a pretty standard game. It was Tazri, Prossh, Vorel and myself in a game. Tazri flashed in Hulk and I Whir of Invention'd into Tormod's Crypt and he laughed (apparently that was his only line of play because he did nothing for the rest of the game). Vorel countered Prossh's Food Chain, and I forced Arcum through on t6 using Pact and a 1cmc counter while Elixir was on field, so I got to go straight for the Paradox Engine play and win. I found myself needing more mana, though, which was a complaint I had often before. Also, with Citanul Flute, Snapcaster Mage seems too good to not have, and I luckily have a spare floating around in my binder, so I tried that out in the second game and it was phenomenal even with only 17 instants/sorceries.
The Zur, Jeleva, and Yidris players both apparently moved away from Pittsburgh, so the strongest decks here right now are either Thrasios+Tymna or Tazri, which win via Flash Hulk, Hermit Druid, and Food Chain combos. I'm currently the only one with a Zur Doomsday list, so I may pull some of the stax cards that slow down Storm/ADN decks as they're not exactly necessary when the most troublesome combos they have are an instant + a sac outlet and a big freaking creature.
Heavily debating about re-adding Guardian Idol and Mind Stone, as getting Engine stuck in hand sucks badly, and more mana rocks makes playing with more counters easier on top of making third turn Arcum easier (which seems very necessary). Defense Grid is going out for one of them, for sure, as I have to play more proactively with counters to stop Flash Hulk which straight up wins faster. Torpor Orb hasn't had reason to be tutored for a while, so I'm going to sideboard it since Blink/Flicker doesn't hang around the competitive pods.
Anyway, changes I'm testing tomorrow after work:
- Grid
- Static Orb/Tangle Wire
- Thorn of Amethyst
- Torpor Orb to sideboard, dropping Neurok Stealthsuit entirely
- 2 Island
- Arcane Denial
- Swiftfoot Boots
+ Mind Stone
+ Guardian Idol
+ Snapcaster Mage
+ Gitaxian Probe
+ Riptide Laboratory (someone at the shop gave me the idea to use this to return and re-cast Trophy Mage to assemble Monolith + Rings + Staff during games I can't stick Arcum. Idea came up when a Cyclonic Rift was popped on t5 to prevent Hulk shenanigans and my re-casting of Trophy Mage let me collect Rings, which let me go off after replaying all of my fast mana. Seems absolutely horrible, but it's a colorless land slot so I don't feel it's that big of a deal to try it out).
+ Delay
+ Force of Will
I think it's time to put Force back in, as well, as over a quarter of my deck is now blue which I feel is enough to support both it and Chrome Mox, now. Boots has sucked every single time I've drawn it for the last little while, so it's out for Force. My best tools against what is regularly played in my meta appears to be Back to Basics and Grafdigger's Cage/Tormod's Crypt, though some players have been trying to convince me to use Relic of Progenitus instead, and I may try it since I have some laying about.
How has everyone else's lists been doing? My list is still the same as the last post, minus swapping Windfall for Trophy Mage.
Sig and Avatar drawn by me.
2
Artifact
As Sorcerous Spyglass enters the battlefield, look at an opponent's hand, then choose any card name.
Activated abilities of sources with the chosen name can't be activated unless they're mana abilities.
----
Looks good to me.
WorkshopsLegacy:
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Arcum DagssonMake Paradox Engine Great Again!Urza, Lord High Artificer
I changed my Memnarch list to incorporate Paradox Engine, and it's been fantastic. It turns all of the mana rocks in the deck into absurd ramp pieces and it enables a huge mana dump into Memnarch's ability to steal a massive amount of opponent's cards in a single turn cycle. And it sometimes lets me win with all of the card draw.
Have you considered [CARD]Pull from Tomorrow[/CARD? I know it's not conducive to the overall game plan, but I've found that it gets me a great deal of card advantage in the long game, when other cEDH decks are running low on cards. What are your thoughts on it?
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
WorkshopsLegacy:
Death and Taxes
EDH:
Arcum DagssonMake Paradox Engine Great Again!Urza, Lord High Artificer
You say not to run these, yet the list you have featured in the Primer has both of these. Clarification please?
He forgot to edit it. Prior to the printing of Paradox Engine, those were bad cards to run. Now, they allow winning on the same turn given a set of circumstances via Citanul Flute.
WorkshopsLegacy:
Death and Taxes
EDH:
Arcum DagssonMake Paradox Engine Great Again!Urza, Lord High Artificer
a big grain of salt. However, I'm shocked by no shrieking drake, which immediately goes infinite mana
with PE,even without AD.
WorkshopsLegacy:
Death and Taxes
EDH:
Arcum DagssonMake Paradox Engine Great Again!Urza, Lord High Artificer
Sorry if this has been gone over before, but how do the Myr Retriever / Junk Diver combo into infinite mana? Does it assume a sac outlet (Arcbound Ravager) + Paradox Engine + Artifact Mana sources for infinite cast triggers? If thats the case, why not Krark-Clan Ironworks as a sac outlet that you can tutor up with Arcum. I guess if you have PE online you probably have flute and can just get the Arcbound Ravager...
@Pook what is your alternate line of play should you loose access to Rings of Brighthearth or Basalt Monolith? Is it some version of the above? Or Metalworker + Staff of Domination could get it done, but you have to wait a turn for metalworker to start tapping.
Thanks!
1: Arcum Tap (x creature), get Paradox Engine (PE).
2: Cast y creature, untap nonlands due to PE, Arcum Tap (sac y creature), get Citanul Flute (CF), search for Memnite (or any 0-drop) via CF.
3: Cast 0-drop, untap nonlands due to PE, Arcum Tap (sac 0-drop), get 3-mana rock (Mana Vault/Grim Monolith/Basalt Monolith/Thran Dynamo/Gilded Lotus) via Arcum, tap 3-mana rock (3 mana in pool), CF search for Myr Retriever (MR)(1 mana in pool).
4: Cast MR (-1 mana [hence the need to have that additional 1 mana]), untap nonlands due to PE, Arcum Tap (sac MR), get 0-drop back from GY via MR trigger, get another 3-mana rock via Arcum, tap both (6 mana in pool), search for Junk Diver/Workshop Assistant (JD/WA) via CF (3 mana in pool).
5: Cast 0-drop, untap nonlands due to PE, tap the 2 3-mana rocks (9 mana in pool), cast JD/WA (6 mana in pool), untap nonlands due to PE, tap the 2 3-mana rocks (12 mana in pool), Arcum tap (sac Junk Diver/Workshop Assistant), get Retriever back from GY via JD/WA trigger, search for any artifact. At this point, you can cycle through the MR and JD/WA, which will net you 1 mana from the 2 3-mana rocks each time.
No need for Krark-Clan Ironworks which is probably close to a dead card majority of the time.
WorkshopsLegacy:
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EDH:
Arcum DagssonMake Paradox Engine Great Again!Urza, Lord High Artificer
if you're hand is so bad and desperate to go waste a tutor for a land and then waste the recursion let alone the time to set the repeatable recursion then you should have mulled not to mention you need mana to activate and it's only to your hand so you have very circumstantial use for it in which that'd be for a super desperate hard cast of a high drop after having a lot of power cards previously gutted such as your lotus or other rocks though there would be ways to chain it if not infinite the land fetch however the point of doing so would be none unless you go way off base of what your commander is meant for
in the whole time you scramble for that though you could much more easily just assemble a 2-3 card engine like nothing the wins your game on the spot
however to each their own
my list goes against a lot of what the OP said not to do and frankly i'm only here because i've never faced or even seen another decklist for AD before but my deck consistently goes off T2-4 and has won me plenty of starcity mats and pins and if it doesn't fire off that quick it rolls over and plays dead but then no one bothers me and it instantly blows up in their face such as escaping a mindslaver while transitioning turns by performing a burn combo
That being said my deck also isn't finished due to money constraints such as needing a workshop and transmute artifact and inkmoth but with how it runs you'd never know it wasn't finished but those simple fine tune swaps may not seem a big deal but then it just moves smoother and smoother
once i figure out how i'll gladly put up my list
1 Arcum Dagsson
Creature
1 Rootwater Diver
1 Muzzio, Visionary Architect
1 Trinket Mage
1 Treasure Mage
1 Trophy Mage
Enchantment
1 Power Artifact
1 Intruder Alarm
1 March of the Machines
1 Artificer's Intuition
1 Thopter Spy Network
1 Mechanized Production
Land
25 Island
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Academy Ruins
1 Urza's Factory
1 Halimar Depths
1 Temple of the False God
1 Buried Ruin
1 Tomb of the Spirit Dragon
1 Inventors' Fair
Artifact
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Mana Vault
1 Meekstone
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Sol Ring
1 Winter Orb
1 Lotus Petal
1 Static Orb
1 Citanul Flute
1 Voltaic Key
1 Grim Monolith
1 Storage Matrix
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Darksteel Forge
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Blasting Station
1 Clock of Omens
1 Grinding Station
1 Salvaging Station
1 Staff of Domination
1 Summoning Station
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
1 Thornbite Staff
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Myr Turbine
1 Unwinding Clock
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Mana Crypt
1 Paradox Engine
1 Shield Sphere
1 Phyrexian Walker
1 Shifting Wall
1 Ornithopter
1 Metalworker
1 Myr Retriever
1 Myr Welder
1 Memnite
1 Palladium Myr
1 Shimmer Myr
1 Dross Scorpion
1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Treasure Keeper
1 Memnarch
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Whir of Invention
Sorcery
1 Fabricate
1 Reshape
1 Argivian Restoration
Planeswalker
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
WorkshopsLegacy:
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EDH:
Arcum DagssonMake Paradox Engine Great Again!Urza, Lord High Artificer
You also don't really need all of the 0 drop dudes. I'd swap one of those out for Hangarback Walker since he pulls double duty (you only need two dudes to sac before your Citanul Flute loops, and Walker provides both), and then maybe drop another for Myr Sire, who is roughly the same as Hangarback Walker Texas Ranger.
Sig and Avatar drawn by me.
I don't know if you have a budget list/casual list that you maintain on the OP, but I think that the new Tezzeret, Artifice Master is worth a mention. He spawns artifact dudes for Arcum to sac, provides a great source of card advantage when the game stalls out, and can actually assemble your win condition via his ultimate (over the course of several turns, of course). I think he's too slow to be truly effective in a competitive list, but I think he's a decent inclusion.
I would also HIGHLY recommend the new Sai, Master Thopterist. He's really quite effective for what this deck is trying to do and actually makes tutoring for Skullclamp a not terrible proposition in mono-U. I like the fact that Sai makes bodies for Arcum to sac and makes the casting of your mana rocks and Stax pieces not entirely dead. Plus, he has card advantage stapled into his body too, so I think he's a great engine.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I've done tons of testing over the short period of time I've been playing edh. But this is the list I've arrived on for the most part. ( It's a little set up for a 2h gaint tourney at the moment.)
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/arcums-infinite-puzzle-box/
https://discord.gg/fJRx8wW
https://discord.gg/fJRx8wW
https://discord.gg/fJRx8wW
I've got a slot all lined up for it.