I have a Rhys the Redeemed tiny leader that I would like to make into a full blown EDH. I like your thoughts on how tokens matter in different ways (how I made my tiny leaders). However, I think you can get even more value from your current list. For example, I see you're running Stoneforge Mystic. Is it only to tutor up Skullclamp, your only equipment in the deck? Inclusion of Earthcraft may warrant Squirrel Nest instead to go infinite. Either way, both work pretty great on their own. Having Doubling Season means more value from planeswalkers. Have you considered Elspeth, Knight-Errant or Ajani, Caller of the Pride? With Doubling Season in play they ultimate the turn they enter play (as does Elspeth, Sun's Champion) so you get an epic emblem and a bunch of cats.
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Problem with squirrel nest is with out earthcraft its honestly pretty bad. Its fine for starting out or budget but the deck has plenty of ways to keep making tokens many of which are better than a vanilla 1/1. As someone who plays a very similar list Stoneforge to get only skullclamp is 100% worth it. If you wanted to add a second card a feast and famine is a fine choice. Knight- Errant is good but with out Doubling Season is rather lack luster *same problem with Ajani*. Id doesnt really do enough otherwise and as far as EDH goes Id view ultimates on walkers as a bonus. Garruk Wildspeaker is pretty good though. *basically all the garruks are*
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SonofaBith - Wizards was so excited about making the packaging for Modern Masters 2 recyclable, they decided to make most of the rares and all but 1 of the UC's recycle-bin ready too. Convenient!
Thoughts on Origins? The Great Aurora and Woodland Bellower both seem potentially good additions to the top of the curve. I'm thinking of swapping out T&N for Aurora because I've always wanted a Warp World in color.
I don't expect great things out of it, but my group plays next to no land destruction and a lot of sweepers so lands are a pretty strong resource in trying to recover.
Origins did bring some exciting cards. You guys mentioned most of them already but I figured I should do a write up on everything that stood out to me.
The Great Aurora - I normally shy away from sorceries but this one looks extremely powerful. Currently I have not tried it out but will do so the next time my group gets together. My initial thought was how the turn will play out once it's been cast and how I could win that same turn. Ideally I would like a way to destroy the land they're able to play if I'm not able to outright kill everyone. Problem with that is I've likely drawn the blue decks into lands and a counterspell or 2. Grand Abolisher is bait, possibility to tutor and/or recur but I also have a finite amount of mana, Mirari's Wake or perhaps an Earthcraft fueled draw could work for that. Maybe win with Reveillark combo? Yes that seems like a plan. So we're looking at about 10 mana + possible tutor mana + possible Abolisher mana, seems reasonable. Plan B - Tooth and Nail for Craterhoof Behemoth and Avenger of Zendikar + Concordant Crossroads. Plan C - awesome stuff I haven't thought of yet. Pardon my typing out loud here this is all theory crafting but it looks legit. Good card!
Woodland Bellower - Really cool card, picked one up for my cube right away but I don't think it's quite good enough. Limiting it to both green creatures and creatures with cmc 3 or less hurts the available targets too much.
Sword of the Animist - This looks pretty sweet and a format staple. I didn't actually think of it for this deck but it certainly does seem appropriate, we certainly don't have a shortage of expendable creatures to swing with. Anyone tried it out?
Caustic Caterpillar - I really like this card but I think Reclamation Sage and Qasali Pridemage edge it out for a spot.
Evolutionary Leap - Not really sure what to make of this card. There's a lot of cool creatures to get and it's very cheap to use. I guess the idea is if you draw a bad one you just play it and try again? It looks like it could be powerful, sometimes.
Gave the ol' primer a bit of an overhaul, mostly cosmetic changes but added some writeups on cards that were missing, expanding on some sections and made some changes based on how things have been playing out more recently. List is current and I'm going to be getting together for some commander games this weekend and will hopefully be able to try out The Great Aurora. Next batch of changes will likely be focused on reducing the number of ETB lands, I don't mind having some but I think I've gone overboard with them.
Woodland Bellower - Really cool card, picked one up for my cube right away but I don't think it's quite good enough. Limiting it to both green creatures and creatures with cmc 3 or less hurts the available targets too much.
I just want to thank you for all the ideas and developements you have done over the years.
I startet with Rhys as a Commander 2011 but it was a really casual version. I decided to go more your direction now, and I have acquired most of the decks staples. I really like the enchantment angle, because there is not so much removal out for it.
and I need to work a bit on the manabase. I think I want Sterling Grove next. I run Angel of Finality until I get an Scavenging Ooze. I think Evolutionary Leap is very good for a bit more casual metas, in a way that it is a sac outlet for value and not for infinite combos. And sacrificing tokens for the good creatues in thsi decks seems great.
What would you advise to get next from the cards I am missing?
Also what do you think of Primal Command? Its expensive, i know. But it tutors a creature plus an additional effect (mostly grave hate I guess. The real reason to run it is the cool new duel deck aart... still too bad?
Glad you can get some use out of the thread and hopefully you're enjoying the deck. Here's some thoughts on the cards you listed and what I would look to replace them with.
Knight of the Reliquary - I wouldn't worry about it either without Cradle. You can really put just about anything in this slot if there isn't a need for the land tutor.
Fauna Shaman/Natural Order - Congregation at Dawn and Primal Command are great replacements here and they were both in the deck for years before I ultimately cut them for slightly more efficient tutors. Primal Command was a great answer for the Darksteel Forge the Sharuum deck in my group used to run and it can be useful to shuffle back your graveyard when it gets too big so you don't overextend. Congregation can set up some combos or you can put a draw spell on top.
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite - I'd just keep running Angel of Finality in this slot. Haven't tried it in this deck but it's been putting in a lot of work in my cube and is certainly a card I want to try at some point. I'm glad to hear someone is playing it in this deck.
Regal Force - Definitely Skullmulcher, he's even better in some situations and is a great option for that slot. I'm assuming you already have the Mentor of the Meek.
How you prioritize the missing cards is up to you but they're similar in price so here's how I view them
Concordant Crossroads - This card opens up a lot of new avenues for attack making Tooth and Nail very lethal most of the time and allowing you to explode out of nowhere more consistently. Some people don't like how it's a double edged sword because you will lose games occasionally but with smart play I think it's a great addition. If you're looking for a better offense and more explosiveness and don't mind the danger this is a great addition.
Land Tax - It's a great card obviously and a staple for the format. If you have other decks that would benefit this might be higher up but I don't feel the effect is exciting and it doesn't offer me enough synergy that I would want to pick one up very highly. Low on the list for me but one of the more powerful cards.
Sterling Grove - Similar to Concordant Crossroads in opening up options but this time for defense. It's one of the lock pieces need for the Privileged Position, Sterling Grove, Karmic Justice trifecta. This is not as powerful as when I first built the deck and gets slowly weaker as more answers are printed but it's still a potent option to have available to your defense package. That it's also an important tutor is a really nice bonus.
Karmic Justice - I'd get Sterling Grove first but they do work well together.
Parallax Wave - This would probably be the second to last card I'd pick up. It's a personal favorite but there is plenty of other removal that can fill it's place until you can get one.
Tithe - I think it's correct to run it but it's very unexciting and just helps smooth out your early hand. Still good at all stages but I'd pick up cards with more synergy first.
It's good to hear more thoughts on Evolutionary Leap I think that could be a good card just not sure yet. I was going to see how it did in draft before I made up my mind about it but it hasn't done too much in the decks it's been in. Definitely on my radar though.
Origins did bring some exciting cards. You guys mentioned most of them already but I figured I should do a write up on everything that stood out to me.
Evolutionary Leap - Not really sure what to make of this card. There's a lot of cool creatures to get and it's very cheap to use. I guess the idea is if you draw a bad one you just play it and try again? It looks like it could be powerful, sometimes.
You can sacrifice tokens to it. What better way to dispose of them or to do that in response to mass removal and fill your hand up with creatures from your library. I've never had mana problems with this deck and Leap seems just silly in here with all the tokens.
And since I'm running a quite enchantment heavy version, how about:
Sure, it makes our enchantments prone to creature removal but Starfield itself can also help us recur some from the graveyard if they've been destroyed.
You can sacrifice tokens to it. What better way to dispose of them or to do that in response to mass removal and fill your hand up with creatures from your library. I've never had mana problems with this deck and Leap seems just silly in here with all the tokens.
And since I'm running a quite enchantment heavy version, how about:
Sure, it makes our enchantments prone to creature removal but Starfield itself can also help us recur some from the graveyard if they've been destroyed.
I remember back when I played Perilous Forays it would often fetch out every target in my deck, grabbing all my creatures instead does look appealing so I will find a spot for Evolutionary Leap.
Starfield of Nix on the other hand I don’t like very much. You do have some control over turning your enchantments into creatures but it seems too expensive for the recursion it offers. It does open up Parallax Wave combos so there’s certainly value there but I feel like running Opalescence would be better if that’s the route I wanted to go. It does have multiple uses so maybe it could put in some work here, I just don’t have any more room to test anything else right now.
Got together over the weekend to play commander and didn’t draw any of the cards I wanted to try! This deck is particularly difficult for me to playtest because I don’t have the list built on MTGO yet. I’m working on it but it’s kind of expensive…
Any thoughts on SOI? Cryptolith Rite looks to be a standout. Second Harvest could allow you an extra double on an end step (preferably before your killing turn). I'm not totally convinced on Harvest but Cryptolith look sick. I haven't picked up either yet.
Any thoughts on SOI? Cryptolith Rite looks to be a standout. Second Harvest could allow you an extra double on an end step (preferably before your killing turn). I'm not totally convinced on Harvest but Cryptolith look sick. I haven't picked up either yet.
Hey FiddlerTheDrum! Here’s a long overdue set revue of the cards I liked from Shadows over Innistrad for this deck.
Cryptolith Rite – This is definitely the standout of the set. Earthcraft is one of the most powerful cards in the deck. You lose the pseudo haste which makes it worse but not requiring basics is a small upside. I think the deck definitely wants a second copy of this effect. Haste is difficult in these colors but there’s Concordant Crossroads already and this may make me rethink Lightning Greaves.
Second Harvest – This looks like an improved Saproling Symbiosis. Not only do you get a nice cost reduction it also makes exact copies instead of Saprolings which is great. I’m not sure I’ll find room for it but I do like the card and I did at one point run Saproling Symbiosis to decent effect many years ago. It’s also noteworthy it copies not just creature tokens but any tokens (such as clues).
Sigarda, Host of Herons – Token generation for 2 mana is very good and this deck does play some humans. I think Rhys is a better commander for the deck but Sigarda could definitely be at the head of a very similar setup and likely have good results. I think she falls just shy of being included with Ant Queen being more consistent in that slot due not relying on the GY.
Tireless Tracker – Speaking of clues I think I’m going to try out the tracker. Growing in size doesn’t help that much but could turn him into a reasonable threat. Being a cheaper Seer’s Sundial on a stick however does have some appeal and this deck has trouble with card advantage when it doesn’t have Skullclamp.
Traverse the Ulvenwald – Delirium is going to be difficult but not impossible. What I really like about this card is that it can occupy a land slot since that’s what you’ll be getting in the early game with it anyways. Late game this will be a very efficient creature tutor and this is already a toolbox deck so that’s pretty fantastic.
Fortified Village – I like this cycle of lands but I expect this to be worse than Brushland. It’s a great option if you’re either on a budget or just want more fixing. My meta has Blood Moon and Ruination effects so I like to keep a healthy number of basics but if that’s not an issue I’d give this a try.
For my initial testing I’m going to make the following changes
+Cryptolith Rite
-Humility
Humility has been in since the beginning and is one of my favorite Magic cards but as this list has shifted away from enchantments to creatures in recent years Humility has become more detrimental. Additionally this card is played in quite a few decks so people have gotten very good about building with it in mind making it less effective than it was.
+Tireless Tracker
-Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
I think Kamahl’s time has finally come, which is especially painful as I just got a foil copy. This helps reduce the curve and since I didn’t want to cut a draw spell or card advantage spell for the tracker since we need all we can get I decided Kamahl should sit on the sidelines for now. Kamahl does several different things but aside from the Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite interaction he has much better replacements. Mirror Entity is a better pump effect and Dauntless Escort provides significantly cheaper (and often times better) sweeper protection.
+Traverse the Ulvenwald
-Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
I’m trying to trim back the number of ETB tapped lands. Oran-Rief is too slow and there are also a lot of token makers that it doesn’t interact with.
Hey everyone, just decided to rebuild my very old Rhys edh deck, and I thought I'd look here and see what great ideas I was missing. There were more than a few. Great stuff here, very informative. Ghave as commander is genius, I just never saw him as a swarm guy before.
Thoughts? Anyone trying any other cards to good effect so far?
EDIT: Thoughts on Eureka? I feel like it would benefit us the most usually, being super explosive.
Also, Displacer goes infinite with Ashnods Altar incredibly easily, add in anything at all that makes 2 or more tokens on etb, or Triskelavus and a token doubler.
Cloudstone Curio + Priest of Titania + Rhys + haste goes infinite at 5 elves in play. Curio is just a great utility card on its own. Abuse etb triggers, save your creatures from removal, combo in a variety of different ways, and my favorite: Mangara of Corondor. With any instant speed token generator and curio (or Displacer, even), Mangara becomes Vindicate on a stick.
After thinking, I don't really like Command or Throne, I found much better options.
Hey everyone, just decided to rebuild my very old Rhys edh deck, and I thought I'd look here and see what great ideas I was missing. There were more than a few. Great stuff here, very informative. Ghave as commander is genius, I just never saw him as a swarm guy before.
Thoughts? Anyone trying any other cards to good effect so far?
EDIT: Thoughts on Eureka? I feel like it would benefit us the most usually, being super explosive.
Also, Displacer goes infinite with Ashnods Altar incredibly easily, add in anything at all that makes 2 or more tokens on etb, or Triskelavus and a token doubler.
Cloudstone Curio + Priest of Titania + Rhys + haste goes infinite at 5 elves in play. Curio is just a great utility card on its own. Abuse etb triggers, save your creatures from removal, combo in a variety of different ways, and my favorite: Mangara of Corondor. With any instant speed token generator and curio (or Displacer, even), Mangara becomes Vindicate on a stick.
After thinking, I don't really like Command or Throne, I found much better options.
Hey Sage I'm sorry I missed this post. Here's my thoughts on those
Hangarback Walker - I haven't tried it but it seems a little slow. There are some sac outlets in the deck to get immediate value, it makes flying tokens and it's a creature for ease of tutoring so there's some nice things going for it. I think the other token makers have slightly better synergy with the rest of the deck though so I chose to pass on Hangarback. I'd like to hear anyone's experiences with him however.
Heliod, God of the Sun - He's not efficient enough at making tokens. Tokens makers should cost 2 or at most 3.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar - If an anthem is needed there are easier ones to access. It also messes with Skullclamp and can't be removed.
Thraben Doomsayer - He's pretty slow at making tokens and the anthem isn't reliable.
Wren's Run Packmaster - Championing an elf isn't necessarily a problem but I think Ant Queen fills this role better and I don't need another copy of the effect.
Hanweir Militia Captain - If he survives a turn cycle he seems OK but I don't feel it's worth the deck slot.
Illusionist's Bracers - I've tried these in other decks and they're clunky and usually feel unnecessary.
Intangible Virtue - I think I only need one anthem on an enchantment and I like Mirari's Wake more. Vigilance doesn't feel very important to me.
Dromoka's Command - Feels like it would be too low impact despite it's flexibility. Also an instant so does not fit in the toolbox well.
Dragon Throne of Tarkir - It seems clunky for a pump effect.
From Beyond & Eldrazi Displacer - I really like the Displacer and From Beyond is a cool card but I don't think they fit too well with what I'm trying to do.
Eureka - This looks really scary, I don't think I would cast it if I couldn't win immediately.
I'm generally not winning through creature beatdown over several turns. It's usually a combo, high synergy play or bomb (The Great Aurora, Tooth and Nail, Craterhoof Behemoth). This is why I'm not a big fan of anthems and cards that are there to grind out value. They're better in small quantities as toolbox pieces.
I think Selfless Spirit will make a nice upgrade to Dauntless Escort. He's served me well for many years but it's time to pass the torch.
Selfless Spirit can't be Green Sunned though. But one cmc lower is easier to cord in response. But generaly cheaper = better so I think I am also changing.
What are your thoughts on Second Harvest? A lot of Rhys players seem to like the card. It is a bit redundant with the general I think.
From the new set, there is Selfless Spirit that you mentioned, but not so much else.
This is true but I still like it due to the lower cmc. I like Second Harvest but I don't think I have room for it. The effect is on my commander and it doesn't fit in my toolbox (since I can't tutor for it). Eldritch Evolution is interesting, I've got a decent toolbox on the lower end of the curve that I can get by saccing a token or Rhys. Other that Academy Rector I don't want to sac my mid cost creatures and the most important creature is Craterhoof Behemoth which this doesn't get effectively. It's cool but not quite good enough. Thalia is good too for the nonbasic hate but it's more suited to a hatebear strategy which isn't what I'm going for in this deck.
Conspiracy 2 spoiler Recruiter of the Guard seems very good. Finds most of your creatures, not the top end, but all the toolbox creatures. Can be recurred with Sun Titan, can be looped with Reveillarc to fetch all important creatures. I think I am ging to try to recruit...
I’m really surprised they’re printing this card. It’s about the perfect creature for the deck. Passes the Reveillark and Sun Titan test as you mentioned as well as Skullclamp. Can get Academy Rector for enchantments or Fauna Shaman if you need a fatty. I just noticed it can get Bane of Progress which is pretty awesome. Very excited and 100% sure I’m playing this card.
I saw WotC posted on Reddit that they will be releasing some of the cards that make sense via an unannounced method. Hopefully all the good ones, Treasonous Ogre still hasn't been released from the first round. Set looks pretty sick.
I'm a long time lurker on this thread, first time poster. I haven't seen much discussion about what Kaladesh brings to the table but I was hoping to open up the discussion with some of my picks.
As soon as I saw this card, I thought of Rhys. She's a one-drop, makes a token for 3 mana and a tap, then has another ability that makes bigger tokens. But I don't think this deck needs another Rhys, since Rhys is always our first play, and is cheap enough to recast. She also misses out on all the elf synergy, and green colour synergy since the tokens aren't green after all. She does have the potential to make huge tokens but we're not very artifact heavy as is; she needs a lot of setup.
I'll talk about these two at the same time, since their game plan is pretty similar. Both make tokens on ETB/get bigger themselves, and pass the Reveillark test. The pump they provide is a bit different. Angel of Invention is a beatstick/three bodies that has an attached anthem. Cultivator of Blades on the other hand can be a much bigger anthem, but only when it attacks. I lean towards the angel myself, only because we have a big old pumping attacker in the list already, but the option is there. Both are incredibly good choices for a Karmic Guide/Reveillark loop too.
I'm a long time lurker on this thread, first time poster. I haven't seen much discussion about what Kaladesh brings to the table but I was hoping to open up the discussion with some of my picks.
As soon as I saw this card, I thought of Rhys. She's a one-drop, makes a token for 3 mana and a tap, then has another ability that makes bigger tokens. But I don't think this deck needs another Rhys, since Rhys is always our first play, and is cheap enough to recast. She also misses out on all the elf synergy, and green colour synergy since the tokens aren't green after all. She does have the potential to make huge tokens but we're not very artifact heavy as is; she needs a lot of setup.
I'll talk about these two at the same time, since their game plan is pretty similar. Both make tokens on ETB/get bigger themselves, and pass the Reveillark test. The pump they provide is a bit different. Angel of Invention is a beatstick/three bodies that has an attached anthem. Cultivator of Blades on the other hand can be a much bigger anthem, but only when it attacks. I lean towards the angel myself, only because we have a big old pumping attacker in the list already, but the option is there. Both are incredibly good choices for a Karmic Guide/Reveillark loop too.
Any thoughts?
Oviya reminds me of Herald of Anafenza. Obviously better because you gain a much better ability than making your guy bigger and you can activate at instant speed but I still don't think it's enough. I agree Rhys being the commander makes her obsolete.
I would definitely prefer Angel of Invention over Cultivator of Blades. Cultivator is making me choose between a sketchy Overrun and the tokens I want to have whereas the Angel is essentially a token make with an anthem stapled to it. I think the angel is one of the best cards at what it does but I've stayed away from one shot token generators for a long time and I'm not sure she brings enough to sway me. Noted on being a Reveillark target though, that's definitely a point in favor of the angel.
Cataclysmic Gearhulk also looks like an option. It's a very reasonably costed, if limited, ETB wrath which is almost unheard of. It's obviously not ideal of us since the deck is so reliant on creatures and enchantments but having him as a toolbox option could be handy. I'm trying him out in another deck to see how I like him and he's been pretty solid so far. The downside being I'm usually wanting to clear out either artifacts or enchantments and not creature and Bane of Progress is much better at this.
Those are really the only ones that jumped out at me.
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I feel he's just a little too slow. Heliod, God of the Sun is more accessible and his tokens cost the same. However Trinketeer is a double lord which is pretty sweet with Mirror Entity.
Ajani Unyielding seems like straight up good stuff. I know Elspeth, Sun's Champion saw a bit of play in the deck once upon a time, and while Ajani isn't going big with tokens, it provides an incredible amount of card advantage for a single planeswalker, especially in such and instant and sorcery-light deck like this one. Definitely my pick for the set.
Renegade Rallier, if only you were a 2/2. It's a powerful effect, but it has two very big downsides, the first of which is it's a recursion piece that isn't 2 power or less, meaning we can't get it with Reveillark, but we can get it with Recruiter of the Guard. Secondly, revolt may be too hard to trigger in the deck.
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BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
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GW Rhys the Redeemed EDH
RUGAnimar, Soul of Elements EDH
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death EDH
I don't expect great things out of it, but my group plays next to no land destruction and a lot of sweepers so lands are a pretty strong resource in trying to recover.
The Great Aurora - I normally shy away from sorceries but this one looks extremely powerful. Currently I have not tried it out but will do so the next time my group gets together. My initial thought was how the turn will play out once it's been cast and how I could win that same turn. Ideally I would like a way to destroy the land they're able to play if I'm not able to outright kill everyone. Problem with that is I've likely drawn the blue decks into lands and a counterspell or 2. Grand Abolisher is bait, possibility to tutor and/or recur but I also have a finite amount of mana, Mirari's Wake or perhaps an Earthcraft fueled draw could work for that. Maybe win with Reveillark combo? Yes that seems like a plan. So we're looking at about 10 mana + possible tutor mana + possible Abolisher mana, seems reasonable. Plan B - Tooth and Nail for Craterhoof Behemoth and Avenger of Zendikar + Concordant Crossroads. Plan C - awesome stuff I haven't thought of yet. Pardon my typing out loud here this is all theory crafting but it looks legit. Good card!
Woodland Bellower - Really cool card, picked one up for my cube right away but I don't think it's quite good enough. Limiting it to both green creatures and creatures with cmc 3 or less hurts the available targets too much.
Sword of the Animist - This looks pretty sweet and a format staple. I didn't actually think of it for this deck but it certainly does seem appropriate, we certainly don't have a shortage of expendable creatures to swing with. Anyone tried it out?
Caustic Caterpillar - I really like this card but I think Reclamation Sage and Qasali Pridemage edge it out for a spot.
Evolutionary Leap - Not really sure what to make of this card. There's a lot of cool creatures to get and it's very cheap to use. I guess the idea is if you draw a bad one you just play it and try again? It looks like it could be powerful, sometimes.
It is limited, but it does tutor some of my favorite utility creatures in the deck right into play: Eternal Witness, Lotus Cobra, Knight of the Reliquary, Voice of Resurgence, Dauntless Escort. That is a narrow but extremely solid toolbox of critters to dump straight onto the battlefield.
How you prioritize the missing cards is up to you but they're similar in price so here's how I view them
It's good to hear more thoughts on Evolutionary Leap I think that could be a good card just not sure yet. I was going to see how it did in draft before I made up my mind about it but it hasn't done too much in the decks it's been in. Definitely on my radar though.
You can sacrifice tokens to it. What better way to dispose of them or to do that in response to mass removal and fill your hand up with creatures from your library. I've never had mana problems with this deck and Leap seems just silly in here with all the tokens.
And since I'm running a quite enchantment heavy version, how about:
Sure, it makes our enchantments prone to creature removal but Starfield itself can also help us recur some from the graveyard if they've been destroyed.
WBG Elves WBG
Cheeri0s
EDH:
RG Omnath, Locus of Rage RG || GWUB Atraxa, Praetors' Voice GWUB
R Zo-Zu the Punisher R || WU Brago, King Eternal WU
UB Gisa and Geralf UB || BGW Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW
Starfield of Nix on the other hand I don’t like very much. You do have some control over turning your enchantments into creatures but it seems too expensive for the recursion it offers. It does open up Parallax Wave combos so there’s certainly value there but I feel like running Opalescence would be better if that’s the route I wanted to go. It does have multiple uses so maybe it could put in some work here, I just don’t have any more room to test anything else right now.
Got together over the weekend to play commander and didn’t draw any of the cards I wanted to try! This deck is particularly difficult for me to playtest because I don’t have the list built on MTGO yet. I’m working on it but it’s kind of expensive…
G Azusa, Wherever I May Roam
UG Rashmi Simic Power
WB Kambal Life Gain Kills
URG Maelstrom Wanderer Howdy
Cryptolith Rite – This is definitely the standout of the set. Earthcraft is one of the most powerful cards in the deck. You lose the pseudo haste which makes it worse but not requiring basics is a small upside. I think the deck definitely wants a second copy of this effect. Haste is difficult in these colors but there’s Concordant Crossroads already and this may make me rethink Lightning Greaves.
Second Harvest – This looks like an improved Saproling Symbiosis. Not only do you get a nice cost reduction it also makes exact copies instead of Saprolings which is great. I’m not sure I’ll find room for it but I do like the card and I did at one point run Saproling Symbiosis to decent effect many years ago. It’s also noteworthy it copies not just creature tokens but any tokens (such as clues).
Sigarda, Host of Herons – Token generation for 2 mana is very good and this deck does play some humans. I think Rhys is a better commander for the deck but Sigarda could definitely be at the head of a very similar setup and likely have good results. I think she falls just shy of being included with Ant Queen being more consistent in that slot due not relying on the GY.
Tireless Tracker – Speaking of clues I think I’m going to try out the tracker. Growing in size doesn’t help that much but could turn him into a reasonable threat. Being a cheaper Seer’s Sundial on a stick however does have some appeal and this deck has trouble with card advantage when it doesn’t have Skullclamp.
Traverse the Ulvenwald – Delirium is going to be difficult but not impossible. What I really like about this card is that it can occupy a land slot since that’s what you’ll be getting in the early game with it anyways. Late game this will be a very efficient creature tutor and this is already a toolbox deck so that’s pretty fantastic.
Fortified Village – I like this cycle of lands but I expect this to be worse than Brushland. It’s a great option if you’re either on a budget or just want more fixing. My meta has Blood Moon and Ruination effects so I like to keep a healthy number of basics but if that’s not an issue I’d give this a try.
For my initial testing I’m going to make the following changes
+Cryptolith Rite
-Humility
Humility has been in since the beginning and is one of my favorite Magic cards but as this list has shifted away from enchantments to creatures in recent years Humility has become more detrimental. Additionally this card is played in quite a few decks so people have gotten very good about building with it in mind making it less effective than it was.
+Tireless Tracker
-Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
I think Kamahl’s time has finally come, which is especially painful as I just got a foil copy. This helps reduce the curve and since I didn’t want to cut a draw spell or card advantage spell for the tracker since we need all we can get I decided Kamahl should sit on the sidelines for now. Kamahl does several different things but aside from the Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite interaction he has much better replacements. Mirror Entity is a better pump effect and Dauntless Escort provides significantly cheaper (and often times better) sweeper protection.
+Traverse the Ulvenwald
-Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
I’m trying to trim back the number of ETB tapped lands. Oran-Rief is too slow and there are also a lot of token makers that it doesn’t interact with.
I’ll try to update the OP later on today.
I have a few cards I'm running I haven't seen here yet, and I'd like some input on them, if possible.
Hangarback Walker
Heliod, God of the Sun
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Thraben Doomsayers
Wren's Run Packmaster
Hanweir Militia Captain
Illusionist's Bracers
Intangible Virtue It's insane!
Dromoka's Command
Dragon Throne of Tarkir
From Beyond I have Eldrazi Displacer to tutor up with a few etb effects for value, Armada Wurm, Hornet Queen, Greenwarden of Murasa, in addition to the standard etb's listed by everyone else, or it can act as a pseudo-removal spell.
Thoughts? Anyone trying any other cards to good effect so far?
EDIT: Thoughts on Eureka? I feel like it would benefit us the most usually, being super explosive.
Also, Displacer goes infinite with Ashnods Altar incredibly easily, add in anything at all that makes 2 or more tokens on etb, or Triskelavus and a token doubler.
Cloudstone Curio + Priest of Titania + Rhys + haste goes infinite at 5 elves in play. Curio is just a great utility card on its own. Abuse etb triggers, save your creatures from removal, combo in a variety of different ways, and my favorite: Mangara of Corondor. With any instant speed token generator and curio (or Displacer, even), Mangara becomes Vindicate on a stick.
After thinking, I don't really like Command or Throne, I found much better options.
UBR Grixis Delver UBR
EDH
U Jace High Tide U
G Yisan Elfball G
UBR Marchesa UBR
Hangarback Walker - I haven't tried it but it seems a little slow. There are some sac outlets in the deck to get immediate value, it makes flying tokens and it's a creature for ease of tutoring so there's some nice things going for it. I think the other token makers have slightly better synergy with the rest of the deck though so I chose to pass on Hangarback. I'd like to hear anyone's experiences with him however.
Heliod, God of the Sun - He's not efficient enough at making tokens. Tokens makers should cost 2 or at most 3.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar - If an anthem is needed there are easier ones to access. It also messes with Skullclamp and can't be removed.
Thraben Doomsayer - He's pretty slow at making tokens and the anthem isn't reliable.
Wren's Run Packmaster - Championing an elf isn't necessarily a problem but I think Ant Queen fills this role better and I don't need another copy of the effect.
Hanweir Militia Captain - If he survives a turn cycle he seems OK but I don't feel it's worth the deck slot.
Illusionist's Bracers - I've tried these in other decks and they're clunky and usually feel unnecessary.
Intangible Virtue - I think I only need one anthem on an enchantment and I like Mirari's Wake more. Vigilance doesn't feel very important to me.
Dromoka's Command - Feels like it would be too low impact despite it's flexibility. Also an instant so does not fit in the toolbox well.
Dragon Throne of Tarkir - It seems clunky for a pump effect.
From Beyond & Eldrazi Displacer - I really like the Displacer and From Beyond is a cool card but I don't think they fit too well with what I'm trying to do.
Eureka - This looks really scary, I don't think I would cast it if I couldn't win immediately.
I'm generally not winning through creature beatdown over several turns. It's usually a combo, high synergy play or bomb (The Great Aurora, Tooth and Nail, Craterhoof Behemoth). This is why I'm not a big fan of anthems and cards that are there to grind out value. They're better in small quantities as toolbox pieces.
I think Selfless Spirit will make a nice upgrade to Dauntless Escort. He's served me well for many years but it's time to pass the torch.
G Azusa, Wherever I May Roam
UG Rashmi Simic Power
WB Kambal Life Gain Kills
URG Maelstrom Wanderer Howdy
G Azusa, Wherever I May Roam
UG Rashmi Simic Power
WB Kambal Life Gain Kills
URG Maelstrom Wanderer Howdy
I'm a long time lurker on this thread, first time poster. I haven't seen much discussion about what Kaladesh brings to the table but I was hoping to open up the discussion with some of my picks.
Oviya Pashiri, Sage Lifecrafter
As soon as I saw this card, I thought of Rhys. She's a one-drop, makes a token for 3 mana and a tap, then has another ability that makes bigger tokens. But I don't think this deck needs another Rhys, since Rhys is always our first play, and is cheap enough to recast. She also misses out on all the elf synergy, and green colour synergy since the tokens aren't green after all. She does have the potential to make huge tokens but we're not very artifact heavy as is; she needs a lot of setup.
Angel of Invention / Cultivator of Blades
I'll talk about these two at the same time, since their game plan is pretty similar. Both make tokens on ETB/get bigger themselves, and pass the Reveillark test. The pump they provide is a bit different. Angel of Invention is a beatstick/three bodies that has an attached anthem. Cultivator of Blades on the other hand can be a much bigger anthem, but only when it attacks. I lean towards the angel myself, only because we have a big old pumping attacker in the list already, but the option is there. Both are incredibly good choices for a Karmic Guide/Reveillark loop too.
Any thoughts?
I would definitely prefer Angel of Invention over Cultivator of Blades. Cultivator is making me choose between a sketchy Overrun and the tokens I want to have whereas the Angel is essentially a token make with an anthem stapled to it. I think the angel is one of the best cards at what it does but I've stayed away from one shot token generators for a long time and I'm not sure she brings enough to sway me. Noted on being a Reveillark target though, that's definitely a point in favor of the angel.
Cataclysmic Gearhulk also looks like an option. It's a very reasonably costed, if limited, ETB wrath which is almost unheard of. It's obviously not ideal of us since the deck is so reliant on creatures and enchantments but having him as a toolbox option could be handy. I'm trying him out in another deck to see how I like him and he's been pretty solid so far. The downside being I'm usually wanting to clear out either artifacts or enchantments and not creature and Bane of Progress is much better at this.
Those are really the only ones that jumped out at me.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
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Ajani Unyielding
Ajani Unyielding seems like straight up good stuff. I know Elspeth, Sun's Champion saw a bit of play in the deck once upon a time, and while Ajani isn't going big with tokens, it provides an incredible amount of card advantage for a single planeswalker, especially in such and instant and sorcery-light deck like this one. Definitely my pick for the set.
Renegade Rallier
Renegade Rallier, if only you were a 2/2. It's a powerful effect, but it has two very big downsides, the first of which is it's a recursion piece that isn't 2 power or less, meaning we can't get it with Reveillark, but we can get it with Recruiter of the Guard. Secondly, revolt may be too hard to trigger in the deck.