I think I want to go back to the Zealot, as it's a two mana body when I need to draw cards, and It's a four mana disenchant when I want it, over the Elder's 5 cost.
Perhaps Sylvok Replica, as it doesnt cost GGG1, but 3G to disenchant something?
True, but Laquatus is a fairly bad target to reanimate, isn't useful outside of big-mana situations, and looks like a fish. Fish aren't allowed. I don't think i'd run him.
So did not know this existed. I actually kind of like it, but not for this specific style of deck. I think it might be better served in a Sharuum Stax list, instead of an Edric Combo list.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
It's not enough of an ability. If it gave me some advantage, like Tracker's Instinct does, then I would consider it. Otherwise, only ten cards is not enough. Mirror-Mad Phantasm is far better.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
I have been building a version of this myself and found a couple decent effects that you might want to consider.
Recall is an interesting alternative to something like Recollect, it requires a hand but card advantage is clearly not measured by just your hand with this deck.
I think the only thing that's stopping Recall from making an appearance is the XX cost. Certainly, for one card it's 1 card and a non-recurrable recollect, but as the number of cards grows, the amount of mana you want to pay for it grows too much to handle. Generally I want to be winning after a mass recursion spell like Nostalgic Dreams, because if I don't win now, people are going to realize I'm about to win. So, I do think it has potential, but I'm afraid the cost is too high. Not by a measure of card advantage, but of threat-levels to your opponent. The only reasonable time to cast this, then, would be if you have a massive Cradle or infinite mana already.
Attunement is one of those reuseable card filtering effects that could almost be Bazaar #3, its certainly better than something like Sylvan Hierophant.
I have been thinking about Attunement, and it probably deserves a spot. The Hierophant is admittedly weak, but I haven't looked at it too closely since adding it. I will start to test changes to the deck this week, and Attunement will probably fit right in.
I have been thinking of adding it in place of Deep Reconnaissance, but am not quite sure if I really want to. The fact that Realms is an instant means I can get some mad advantage on the turn of a dime if I want, and it can be flashback'd by Snapcaster at the end of turn if I need it.
On the downside, I really like the lands coming directly in. Since this deck is very mana hungry, Deep Reconnaissance allows me to quickly accelerate my mana to win quickly.
While I would defenitely be okay with running Realms alongside the flashback growth, right now it seems to be competing for slots.
I personally don't much like the 0 CMC tutor package, does removing it to free up slots detract too much from the deck? I would probably run a Natural Order / Flash selection instead.
I think it detracts from the combo-kill aspect of the deck, which the 0 cmc engine was implemented to help enable more quickly.
Natural Order I have been reconsidering lately. It's a solid card that can help me win easily. If I played NO, I'd also want to include a target alongside Kessig Cagebreakers, and it would probably be Primeval Titan. This means two slots. What seems weakest?
If I did go the NO route, I would probably want to ensure that I could hit 4 mana even more easily than I can now. Generally, that means another land. Three slots.
I dislike Flash. There is only one target I'd want to Flash in consistently, otherwise it's a waste of a card to me.
I'm especially looking forward to people thinking they have locked me out with the FOTM Grafdigger's Cage, until they realise that Genesis is still a card!
one thing im not sure about is, when would it be considered overextending your graveyard? the people in my playgroup run bojuka bog+bounce lands, grafdigger's cage, withered wretch, the ooze etc etc, and these effects see play consistently. How would you deal with them? the null rod doesnt deal with creatures, and the witchbane orb i put in does not always see play every game.
Usually i would go all out with the mill (until about half the deck, or 15 creatures), then drop the kessig cagebreakers with a counterspell backup.(keeping the at least one dredger in hand to avoid being completely blown out) If that doesnt work; aka graveyard exiled, cagebreakers/crossroads killed, i would rush for the lab manaic win. Would you say that this mentality of playing the deck is a mistake? Also, i havent played enough games to see a fatestitcher combo be assembled (mainly because of grave hate for splitting image or wrath effects). how often do you go for that win?
Any testing of Mindless Automaton? I played it in my dredge-centric Mimeoplasm build for a while and was fairly satisfied with it as a companion to Psychatog/Thought Gorger/Attunement. I like that it's flexible like Attunement (which belongs in this deck 100%, IMO) in that it allows you to discard AND draw/dredge instead of just one or the other. Just something to consider.
I know its not a creature and blah blah but what about Sword of Light and Shadow? You will have a wicked choice of creatures to bring back to your hand and its more mana-lite than genesis, although you have to draw it or use a regrowth effect.
Any testing of Mindless Automaton? I played it in my dredge-centric Mimeoplasm build for a while and was fairly satisfied with it as a companion to Psychatog/Thought Gorger/Attunement. I like that it's flexible like Attunement (which belongs in this deck 100%, IMO) in that it allows you to discard AND draw/dredge instead of just one or the other. Just something to consider.
I personally don't like it. At four mana and rising for the use of it, it's too much to handle for this deck.
I know its not a creature and blah blah but what about Sword of Light and Shadow? You will have a wicked choice of creatures to bring back to your hand and its more mana-lite than genesis, although you have to draw it or use a regrowth effect.
Another that is a creature is mulldrifter.
It's not necessary. Though being able to recur creatures is always nice, not at the cost of needing another card to work. While it is more mana-light than Genesis, it doesn't fit properly into the deck. Genesis works without me needing to worry about it. This requires an open opponent.
Mulldrifter I like, but it's not high on my list of things to test.
I dislike Map here - Crop Rotation allows for instant speed searching on a time, and does silly things with snapcaster. Map takes three mana, and a land drop. Not good.
Buried Ruin is unnecessary. Bringing back Null Rod is not valuable enough to warrant a land drop, a colorless one at that.
Emerald Medallion super-charges Life from the Loam, but I'm also in the mind of playing Natural Order + Primeval Titan. Not my thread.
Kinky, worth trying out.
Testing:
NO + Titan package
+1 to this. Definitely worth it.
Realms Uncharted
Another +1. If I have Life From the Loam, this is borderline unfair. Petrified Field is also fairly awesome. One downside is the tendency to fill your hand with nonbasics that you may or may not be able to use. It's a fine balance between Hermit Druid mass-mill and consistent mana production.
Budget cards:
I don't think you can replace Bazaar. It's too good and too necessary. While you can probably play with the deck all the same, you WILL lose your early-turn combo potential.
Pact of Negation is superior to Force of Will for the simple reason of being tutorable by Tolaria West.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Brawn - Kind of useless. All my fat already has trample, and most of my creatures are 1/1s or 2/2s. Trample doesn't do anything here.
NO/Titan - Ends the game very quickly, and gives the deck a lot of speed that it otherwise might not have. Fetching Bazaar and Gaea's Cradle ends the game within a turn or two.
Realms Uncharted - In the end, I am not adding this. An intuition for lands is great, but testing proved it to be a nuisance more than anything. Instead, I tried out Lotus Cobra, and found it to be absolutely incredible.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Another great deck Gaka. The only thing missing would be Mesmeric Orb. The card is just nuts for this style deck.
The only reason I don't is because it interferes with my end-game. When I've milled myself out and am going for the memory's journey win, Mesmeric Orb suicides me. If I wasn't so aggressive with this way of winning, the orb could definitely be considered. It's not worth it for now.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Man the most annoying running this is getting Bojuka Bogged. I was running my 5 color flashback and immediately drew hate w/ Hordes as it mostly was 3 on 1. Getting Bojuka Bogged twice and Nihil Spellbomb got rid a ton of my flashback/big creature bombs. Eventually 3 Sphinx of Uthuuns got me enough gas to stay alive and win when theystopped attacking me.
One thing I really wish I had was Witchbane Orb or Leyline of Sanctity for any graveyard strategy. I even got Curse of Echoed the same game.
Also what do u think of Careful Study and Mulch? I'm already running pseudo-Dredge in standard with faithless, mulch, and tracker's.
Yup, Witchbane is defenitely finding a place at the moment. Hexproof is huge.
Mulch proved to be fairly useless, and is of course easily outclassed by Tracker's Instincts. Careful Study doesn't have a spot because the list is far too tight for such filter.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
The question is, does it need that much recursion? Considering that we have a few ways of recurring already in the deck. If that is yes, I recommend Buried Ruin before Academy Ruins. Why? One, it requires only colourless mana, two, we have land recursion pretty much built into the deck, and 3, we don't have to skip our dredge step to get it back. It's even better, because it doesn't get randomly hosed by other Academy Ruins.
The flip side, is that AR is reusable, and will only cost one land drop. Plus, if you want the card now, you need to combine it with a draw spell.
Also, heh AR, and BR. I wonder of they will make a CR land :P.
Sylvan Library - Drawing three cards a turn is a very powerful ability.. particularly coupled with dredgers. There is very little reason not to always take the eight.
If you've got 3 dredgers in the yard(or two dredgers and a discard outlet) there's no reason to take 8.
And have you considered Wood Sage? I know it really doesn't belong in this format, but it does run pretty well with Sylvan Library.
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Perhaps Sylvok Replica, as it doesnt cost GGG1, but 3G to disenchant something?
KAALIA SMASH!
Intet dreams of times ahead
and more
Hmm, yes. I like this suggestion.
True, but Laquatus is a fairly bad target to reanimate, isn't useful outside of big-mana situations, and looks like a fish. Fish aren't allowed. I don't think i'd run him.
So did not know this existed. I actually kind of like it, but not for this specific style of deck. I think it might be better served in a Sharuum Stax list, instead of an Edric Combo list.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
It's not enough of an ability. If it gave me some advantage, like Tracker's Instinct does, then I would consider it. Otherwise, only ten cards is not enough. Mirror-Mad Phantasm is far better.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
GRRWHazezon Tamar (Valakut)GRRW
UKami of the Crescent Moon (
Group Hug)UUHeidar, Rimewind Master [Mini-Primer]U
WKemba, Kha Regent (Stax)W
GEzuri, Renegade Leader [Primer]G
I think the only thing that's stopping Recall from making an appearance is the XX cost. Certainly, for one card it's 1 card and a non-recurrable recollect, but as the number of cards grows, the amount of mana you want to pay for it grows too much to handle. Generally I want to be winning after a mass recursion spell like Nostalgic Dreams, because if I don't win now, people are going to realize I'm about to win. So, I do think it has potential, but I'm afraid the cost is too high. Not by a measure of card advantage, but of threat-levels to your opponent. The only reasonable time to cast this, then, would be if you have a massive Cradle or infinite mana already.
I have been thinking about Attunement, and it probably deserves a spot. The Hierophant is admittedly weak, but I haven't looked at it too closely since adding it. I will start to test changes to the deck this week, and Attunement will probably fit right in.
I have been thinking of adding it in place of Deep Reconnaissance, but am not quite sure if I really want to. The fact that Realms is an instant means I can get some mad advantage on the turn of a dime if I want, and it can be flashback'd by Snapcaster at the end of turn if I need it.
On the downside, I really like the lands coming directly in. Since this deck is very mana hungry, Deep Reconnaissance allows me to quickly accelerate my mana to win quickly.
While I would defenitely be okay with running Realms alongside the flashback growth, right now it seems to be competing for slots.
I think it detracts from the combo-kill aspect of the deck, which the 0 cmc engine was implemented to help enable more quickly.
Natural Order I have been reconsidering lately. It's a solid card that can help me win easily. If I played NO, I'd also want to include a target alongside Kessig Cagebreakers, and it would probably be Primeval Titan. This means two slots. What seems weakest?
If I did go the NO route, I would probably want to ensure that I could hit 4 mana even more easily than I can now. Generally, that means another land. Three slots.
I dislike Flash. There is only one target I'd want to Flash in consistently, otherwise it's a waste of a card to me.
Too costly. I tried it, and found it to be underwhelming at best.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Yixlid jailer's where it's at!
And the realms uncharted and petrified field ideas sound good. You can never have enough bazaar!
This deck is hilarious and crazy and awesome. It's up there with norin as a work of art.
GRRWHazezon Tamar (Valakut)GRRW
UKami of the Crescent Moon (
Group Hug)UUHeidar, Rimewind Master [Mini-Primer]U
WKemba, Kha Regent (Stax)W
GEzuri, Renegade Leader [Primer]G
Usually i would go all out with the mill (until about half the deck, or 15 creatures), then drop the kessig cagebreakers with a counterspell backup.(keeping the at least one dredger in hand to avoid being completely blown out) If that doesnt work; aka graveyard exiled, cagebreakers/crossroads killed, i would rush for the lab manaic win. Would you say that this mentality of playing the deck is a mistake? Also, i havent played enough games to see a fatestitcher combo be assembled (mainly because of grave hate for splitting image or wrath effects). how often do you go for that win?
Another that is a creature is mulldrifter.
I personally don't like it. At four mana and rising for the use of it, it's too much to handle for this deck.
It's not necessary. Though being able to recur creatures is always nice, not at the cost of needing another card to work. While it is more mana-light than Genesis, it doesn't fit properly into the deck. Genesis works without me needing to worry about it. This requires an open opponent.
Mulldrifter I like, but it's not high on my list of things to test.
I dislike Map here - Crop Rotation allows for instant speed searching on a time, and does silly things with snapcaster. Map takes three mana, and a land drop. Not good.
Buried Ruin is unnecessary. Bringing back Null Rod is not valuable enough to warrant a land drop, a colorless one at that.
Kinky, worth trying out.
Testing:
NO + Titan package
+1 to this. Definitely worth it.
Realms Uncharted
Another +1. If I have Life From the Loam, this is borderline unfair. Petrified Field is also fairly awesome. One downside is the tendency to fill your hand with nonbasics that you may or may not be able to use. It's a fine balance between Hermit Druid mass-mill and consistent mana production.
Budget cards:
I don't think you can replace Bazaar. It's too good and too necessary. While you can probably play with the deck all the same, you WILL lose your early-turn combo potential.
Pact of Negation is superior to Force of Will for the simple reason of being tutorable by Tolaria West.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
- Brawn
- Jace's Erasure
- Deep Reconnaissance
- Forest
- Sylvan Hierophant
+ Primeval Titan
+ Petrified Field
+ Attunement
+ Lotus Cobra
+ Natural Order
Brawn - Kind of useless. All my fat already has trample, and most of my creatures are 1/1s or 2/2s. Trample doesn't do anything here.
NO/Titan - Ends the game very quickly, and gives the deck a lot of speed that it otherwise might not have. Fetching Bazaar and Gaea's Cradle ends the game within a turn or two.
Realms Uncharted - In the end, I am not adding this. An intuition for lands is great, but testing proved it to be a nuisance more than anything. Instead, I tried out Lotus Cobra, and found it to be absolutely incredible.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
The only reason I don't is because it interferes with my end-game. When I've milled myself out and am going for the memory's journey win, Mesmeric Orb suicides me. If I wasn't so aggressive with this way of winning, the orb could definitely be considered. It's not worth it for now.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
One thing I really wish I had was Witchbane Orb or Leyline of Sanctity for any graveyard strategy. I even got Curse of Echoed the same game.
Also what do u think of Careful Study and Mulch? I'm already running pseudo-Dredge in standard with faithless, mulch, and tracker's.
Mulch proved to be fairly useless, and is of course easily outclassed by Tracker's Instincts. Careful Study doesn't have a spot because the list is far too tight for such filter.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
The flip side, is that AR is reusable, and will only cost one land drop. Plus, if you want the card now, you need to combine it with a draw spell.
Also, heh AR, and BR. I wonder of they will make a CR land :P.
If you've got 3 dredgers in the yard(or two dredgers and a discard outlet) there's no reason to take 8.
And have you considered Wood Sage? I know it really doesn't belong in this format, but it does run pretty well with Sylvan Library.