How about traumatize? Getting half of your library into your graveyard seems like it could be good playing dredge... Also windfall. youre running windfall-on-a-stick (jace's archivist) but not the real thing.
EDIT: Also, you should definitely post that rasputin list. Looked like fun
How about traumatize? Getting half of your library into your graveyard seems like it could be good playing dredge... Also windfall. youre running windfall-on-a-stick (jace's archivist) but not the real thing.
EDIT: Also, you should definitely post that rasputin list. Looked like fun
Traumatize is too "all-in" for my taste. It basically says, "Win next turn or get your library exiled by the next guy with a tutor." I don't like it.
I'm running Archivist instead of Windfall for two reasons.
1. It's repeatable.
2. It's on a creature.
3. I'm on a horse.
Later Windfall may find a spot, but for now i'll take the creature variant.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
What about Praetor's Counsel in a deck like this? Generally speaking I don't like it much as it can be hard to get enough cards in the grave fast enough for it to be good when drawn early but in a deck like this it seems amazing.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Time Warp? Don't know how you feel about infinite combos but its all you with witness+bouncer at 7 mana.
Terrible thing to dredge. There is actually an infinite combo in the deck (that functions through dredging, ironically) and it's insanely convoluted but guaranteed to win on the spot.
No, it's not the Krosan Restorer/Maze of Ith combo.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Terrible thing to dredge. There is actually an infinite combo in the deck (that functions through dredging, ironically) and it's insanely convoluted but guaranteed to win on the spot.
No, it's not the Krosan Restorer/Maze of Ith combo.
just as bad to dredge as anything else in the deck that doesn't do anything in the grave.. like zenith or w/e.
Traumatize is too "all-in" for my taste. It basically says, "Win next turn or get your library exiled by the next guy with a tutor." I don't like it.
I'm running Archivist instead of Windfall for two reasons.
1. It's repeatable.
2. It's on a creature.
3. I'm on a horse.
Later Windfall may find a spot, but for now i'll take the creature variant.
I guess i get the windfall, but im still not getting the traumatize. Its only half of your library, and how would somebody exile the rest?
Fervent denial is a counter with flashback. Knaw to the bone can stall out the game if youre losing. memory's journey will put stuff back into your library. moment's peace will also stall.
I guess i get the windfall, but im still not getting the traumatize. Its only half of your library, and how would somebody exile the rest?
Fervent denial is a counter with flashback. Knaw to the bone can stall out the game if youre losing. memory's journey will put stuff back into your library. moment's peace will also stall.
Since in this deck your graveyard IS your library, after a Traumatize (if you don't win that turn) then if someone exiles it it's the same as if half your library was exiled.
Fervent denial - too expensive.
Gnaw to the bone - The lifegain is irrelevant in this format and not worth a slot.
Memory's Journey/werebear - already in.
Moment's peace - worthless. This is a "combo" deck, not a control deck
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Since in this deck your graveyard IS your library, after a Traumatize (if you don't win that turn) then if someone exiles it it's the same as if half your library was exiled.
Fervent denial - too expensive.
Gnaw to the bone - The lifegain is irrelevant in this format and not worth a slot.
Memory's Journey/werebear - already in.
Moment's peace - worthless. This is a "combo" deck, not a control deck
OOOOKAY. exiling your graveyard. gotcha.
Although i think that small amounts of lifegain are irrelevant, you would probably be gaining a lot of life off of it. Only about 50% of the games i play are settled with general damage/infinite damage, which would make lifegain pretty relevant. Maybe thats just me though.
How about coastal piracy/crucible worlds/primeval titan/oracle of mul daya/sphinx of lost truth/greater good/consecrated sphinx/forbid?
Piracy - too expensive, not worth it.
Crucible - slow, unnecessary
ptitan - costs too much
oracle - too slow
sphinx - slow, costly
greater good - not enough large creatures to be worth it, I'd play windfall over this any day
sphinx - slow, expensive
forbid - This is actually being considered as a discard engine that also happens to protect the combo. I like this card in any deck that draws a whole lot.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Yes, way too slow without resorting to Natural Order, and I really don't feel like playing with NO. (this will probably change in a week or two)
Elder is already in, and Slime is too much mana.
NO is too fun not to play!
NO is something the all-in weenie aggro versions don't play. But I feel those versions play too many situational beaters, 1/1 landwalkers for 1, blah....and generally aren't too fun and are in trouble if one out of 3-4 opponents ever resolve something worthwhile. Something those players deny ever happening, amazingly.
If you're going to use enjoy Edric with spice, like your decklist does :), NO let's you do really fun stuff. For me, Hornet Queen = 5 flyers!
As a wise man once said: Why aren't you playing force of will?
The only thing I can think of is not enough blue card's, which shouldn't matter due to the fact you can always draw more! It being you, I assume you have good reasons.
I must say I enjoy this project of yours. You should start a blog, if for nothing other then my simple amusement :P. In all honesty, compiling your thoughts and musings on EDH, in one place, would be an amazing resources to everyone.
Second point: does this have 1v1 potential? I would love to see someone expect a typical tempo Edric, and then you land the druid. Maybe I am just being hopeful, but new /improved archtypes are always fun.
Have you considered Armored Skaab? Is it to expensive for it's effect? Does the same go for Curse of the Bloody Tome? Dreamborn Muse? I love seeing the derange assistant in there, it is good to see he has a home :P.
EDIT: I should clarify that the wise man only said that about FOW. Nothing else:p
As a wise man once said: Why aren't you playing force of will?
The only thing I can think of is not enough blue card's, which shouldn't matter due to the fact you can always draw more! It being you, I assume you have good reasons.
While the first reason is that, yes, I don't run that much blue - the second reason is that It's inefficient for the purpose or protection. Forbid allows me to discard dredgers while protecting my investment, or create a last-ditch softlock while beating in my opponents with cuddly bears and squirrels. Pact of Negation is Tolaria West tutorable, and makes for a very good memory's journey pile to win with maniac. It's free protection when they least expect it.
The third, unofficial reason is that I don't like Force. (totally not a storm player)
I must say I enjoy this project of yours. You should start a blog, if for nothing other then my simple amusement :P. In all honesty, compiling your thoughts and musings on EDH, in one place, would be an amazing resources to everyone.
Second point: does this have 1v1 potential? I would love to see someone expect a typical tempo Edric, and then you land the druid. Maybe I am just being hopeful, but new /improved archtypes are always fun.
I'd say it could do fairly well in 1v1. Considering the amount of pure disruption it receives from an entire table usually isn't enough to stop it, one person shouldn't be able to do a darn thing about it. You could even use this for the French Banlist, if you cut the hermit druid and added something like Xantid Swarm... even though countering my spells really doesn't do anything.
Have you considered Armored Skaab? Is it to expensive for it's effect? Does the same go for Curse of the Bloody Tome? Dreamborn Muse? I love seeing the derange assistant in there, it is good to see he has a home :P.
What he said. I was running it and Mulch as a way to kickstart my dredge engine, and was then challenged to run it once without them.
...I don't think I'd add these back anytime soon.
I thought about the curse in the initial draft, but decided that if I wanted this effect, it better be on a stick. Thus, Splinterfright. But that's not dismissing it. It's still a good option.
Dreamborn Muse is a nice idea, and could possibly be in the deck.. but it's slow and expensive. There are very few reasons for this deck to want stuff costing more than 3 or 4 mana, as most of your mana is going into the engine and boosting your resources for the next turn, instead of dropping something like Jace and slowly using that. This is not a slow deck.
this deck has rekindled my interest in dredge. perfect timing as i first saw it when i was looking for a UG self mill deck. Now the serious question i have to ask is... is this deck truely better than something with black? like damia or mimeoplasm? or even karador, which i read is a sick dredge deck. im not doubting, just curious.
this deck has rekindled my interest in dredge. perfect timing as i first saw it when i was looking for a UG self mill deck. Now the serious question i have to ask is... is this deck truely better than something with black? like damia or mimeoplasm? or even karador, which i read is a sick dredge deck. im not doubting, just curious.
I'd say it's far faster than dredge with black, but lacks easy ways to get cards from your graveyard to play. (read, instantaneous recursion like dread return or living death)
Unless you plan on going straight for the maniac win, you need to spend a turn recurring your win con with genesis or a regrowth and unless you have haste, wait a turn to actually win. The one thing this deck wants is a Green or Blue Dread Return, which would make this a much more dangerous deck.
Since we're at the start of a graveyard block with a professed love for UG self-mill.. you never know. I expect this deck to get a lot more busted in the next two sets.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Have you considered breakthrough? I know its used in dredge decks elsewhere, and it seems like I would be an easy way to get dredge triggers and then dump them back into the yard.
Have you considered breakthrough? I know its used in dredge decks elsewhere, and it seems like I would be an easy way to get dredge triggers and then dump them back into the yard.
Too risky. For a one-shot draw effect, you also sacrifice any chance of surviving a graveyard wipe, and if you dont have at least 2 dredgers in the yard it's a complete waste of time to cast. Legacy dredge might want it, but not this one.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Too risky. For a one-shot draw effect, you also sacrifice any chance of surviving a graveyard wipe, and if you dont have at least 2 dredgers in the yard it's a complete waste of time to cast. Legacy dredge might want it, but not this one.
I guess that's true especially since you don't have the same density of dredgers that you would have if you had access to black.
I had to consult with urban dictionary to find out what it meant:P. IMO it is better to want attention then to be up yourself.
Anyhow, my behaviour aside have you considered Evolution Charm? It is instant speed so it can save something from hate that slips in, doesn't effect your draw, and has two other modes that you will probably never use, but are there for just in case.
Another recursion tool that I am dubious about suggesting is Noxious Revival. Instant speed, mana free and goes grabs anything. On the flip side, it messes with dredging. I think it would be useful, what is your stance on it?
Also, are you going to make the opening post more informative? You mentioned early on in the piece that there are plethora of mini engines in the deck, and it would be easier to gauge what can be cut, and what can't, by seeing what you want to remain in the deck.
Anyhow, my behaviour aside have you considered Evolution Charm? It is instant speed so it can save something from hate that slips in, doesn't effect your draw, and has two other modes that you will probably never use, but are there for just in case.
Another recursion tool that I am dubious about suggesting is Noxious Revival. Instant speed, mana free and goes grabs anything. On the flip side, it messes with dredging. I think it would be useful, what is your stance on it?
I've thought of both of these, but havent arrived at conclusions for either yet. Evolution Charm has the benefit of having various modes of play, Noxious is free. Both of them have real merit, but I havent tested either yet.
Also, are you going to make the opening post more informative? You mentioned early on in the piece that there are plethora of mini engines in the deck, and it would be easier to gauge what can be cut, and what can't, by seeing what you want to remain in the deck.
Yes, I am. I'm thinking of collecting the pieces for this in paper, I'm enjoying it so much. This requires a primer to be written, because I sometimes consult my own threads to see what lines of play I could use ... >_>
I'm writing a primer for it right now - should be posted soonish.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
I'm writing a primer for it right now - should be posted soonish.
Awesome. Because right now I look at the list and my head spins. The meta out here is 25% Sharrum 25% Mimeoplasm so everyone and their mother runs at least 3-5 pieces of graveyard hate. Would really like to read a breakdown of some interactions and plays.
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EDIT: Also, you should definitely post that rasputin list. Looked like fun
GRRWHazezon Tamar (Valakut)GRRW
UKami of the Crescent Moon (
Group Hug)UUHeidar, Rimewind Master [Mini-Primer]U
WKemba, Kha Regent (Stax)W
GEzuri, Renegade Leader [Primer]G
Traumatize is too "all-in" for my taste. It basically says, "Win next turn or get your library exiled by the next guy with a tutor." I don't like it.
I'm running Archivist instead of Windfall for two reasons.
1. It's repeatable.
2. It's on a creature.
3. I'm on a horse.
Later Windfall may find a spot, but for now i'll take the creature variant.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Terrible thing to dredge. There is actually an infinite combo in the deck (that functions through dredging, ironically) and it's insanely convoluted but guaranteed to win on the spot.
No, it's not the Krosan Restorer/Maze of Ith combo.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
just as bad to dredge as anything else in the deck that doesn't do anything in the grave.. like zenith or w/e.
And whats the infinite combo? I can't see it.
I guess i get the windfall, but im still not getting the traumatize. Its only half of your library, and how would somebody exile the rest?
Fervent denial is a counter with flashback. Knaw to the bone can stall out the game if youre losing. memory's journey will put stuff back into your library. moment's peace will also stall.
You could also run werebear for teh lulz.
GRRWHazezon Tamar (Valakut)GRRW
UKami of the Crescent Moon (
Group Hug)UUHeidar, Rimewind Master [Mini-Primer]U
WKemba, Kha Regent (Stax)W
GEzuri, Renegade Leader [Primer]G
Since in this deck your graveyard IS your library, after a Traumatize (if you don't win that turn) then if someone exiles it it's the same as if half your library was exiled.
Fervent denial - too expensive.
Gnaw to the bone - The lifegain is irrelevant in this format and not worth a slot.
Memory's Journey/werebear - already in.
Moment's peace - worthless. This is a "combo" deck, not a control deck
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
OOOOKAY. exiling your graveyard. gotcha.
Although i think that small amounts of lifegain are irrelevant, you would probably be gaining a lot of life off of it. Only about 50% of the games i play are settled with general damage/infinite damage, which would make lifegain pretty relevant. Maybe thats just me though.
Good luck!
GRRWHazezon Tamar (Valakut)GRRW
UKami of the Crescent Moon (
Group Hug)UUHeidar, Rimewind Master [Mini-Primer]U
WKemba, Kha Regent (Stax)W
GEzuri, Renegade Leader [Primer]G
Piracy - too expensive, not worth it.
Crucible - slow, unnecessary
ptitan - costs too much
oracle - too slow
sphinx - slow, costly
greater good - not enough large creatures to be worth it, I'd play windfall over this any day
sphinx - slow, expensive
forbid - This is actually being considered as a discard engine that also happens to protect the combo. I like this card in any deck that draws a whole lot.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Defenitely.
Front page updated.
0cmc tutor package added for speed and protection.
Skaab Ruinator removed for being utterly useless.
Credit to Jace_ for doing testing with me. This deck is awesome with the hours we've put into it.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Noooooooooooooo
I cracked a foil Ruinator in a draft that I've been wanting to do something with somewhere....
My Current EDH Decks
WUBRG Lorwyn Block Horde of Notions WUBRG
UG Momir Vig Glimpse Combo UG
UW "Rasputin Dreamcrusher" Control UW
NO is too fun not to play!
NO is something the all-in weenie aggro versions don't play. But I feel those versions play too many situational beaters, 1/1 landwalkers for 1, blah....and generally aren't too fun and are in trouble if one out of 3-4 opponents ever resolve something worthwhile. Something those players deny ever happening, amazingly.
If you're going to use enjoy Edric with spice, like your decklist does :), NO let's you do really fun stuff. For me, Hornet Queen = 5 flyers!
That looks legit.
GRRWHazezon Tamar (Valakut)GRRW
UKami of the Crescent Moon (
Group Hug)UUHeidar, Rimewind Master [Mini-Primer]U
WKemba, Kha Regent (Stax)W
GEzuri, Renegade Leader [Primer]G
The only thing I can think of is not enough blue card's, which shouldn't matter due to the fact you can always draw more! It being you, I assume you have good reasons.
I must say I enjoy this project of yours. You should start a blog, if for nothing other then my simple amusement :P. In all honesty, compiling your thoughts and musings on EDH, in one place, would be an amazing resources to everyone.
Second point: does this have 1v1 potential? I would love to see someone expect a typical tempo Edric, and then you land the druid. Maybe I am just being hopeful, but new /improved archtypes are always fun.
Have you considered Armored Skaab? Is it to expensive for it's effect? Does the same go for Curse of the Bloody Tome? Dreamborn Muse? I love seeing the derange assistant in there, it is good to see he has a home :P.
EDIT: I should clarify that the wise man only said that about FOW. Nothing else:p
While the first reason is that, yes, I don't run that much blue - the second reason is that It's inefficient for the purpose or protection. Forbid allows me to discard dredgers while protecting my investment, or create a last-ditch softlock while beating in my opponents with cuddly bears and squirrels. Pact of Negation is Tolaria West tutorable, and makes for a very good memory's journey pile to win with maniac. It's free protection when they least expect it.
The third, unofficial reason is that I don't like Force. (totally not a storm player)
/blush
Maybe.
I'd say it could do fairly well in 1v1. Considering the amount of pure disruption it receives from an entire table usually isn't enough to stop it, one person shouldn't be able to do a darn thing about it. You could even use this for the French Banlist, if you cut the hermit druid and added something like Xantid Swarm... even though countering my spells really doesn't do anything.
What he said. I was running it and Mulch as a way to kickstart my dredge engine, and was then challenged to run it once without them.
...I don't think I'd add these back anytime soon.
I thought about the curse in the initial draft, but decided that if I wanted this effect, it better be on a stick. Thus, Splinterfright. But that's not dismissing it. It's still a good option.
Dreamborn Muse is a nice idea, and could possibly be in the deck.. but it's slow and expensive. There are very few reasons for this deck to want stuff costing more than 3 or 4 mana, as most of your mana is going into the engine and boosting your resources for the next turn, instead of dropping something like Jace and slowly using that. This is not a slow deck.
You are fishing, sir!
@NO - no.
@Hedron Crab - Duh. I will do some testing with it. Odds are it will make the cut fairly easily.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I'd say it's far faster than dredge with black, but lacks easy ways to get cards from your graveyard to play. (read, instantaneous recursion like dread return or living death)
Unless you plan on going straight for the maniac win, you need to spend a turn recurring your win con with genesis or a regrowth and unless you have haste, wait a turn to actually win. The one thing this deck wants is a Green or Blue Dread Return, which would make this a much more dangerous deck.
Since we're at the start of a graveyard block with a professed love for UG self-mill.. you never know. I expect this deck to get a lot more busted in the next two sets.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
Too risky. For a one-shot draw effect, you also sacrifice any chance of surviving a graveyard wipe, and if you dont have at least 2 dredgers in the yard it's a complete waste of time to cast. Legacy dredge might want it, but not this one.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I guess that's true especially since you don't have the same density of dredgers that you would have if you had access to black.
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
Anyhow, my behaviour aside have you considered Evolution Charm? It is instant speed so it can save something from hate that slips in, doesn't effect your draw, and has two other modes that you will probably never use, but are there for just in case.
Another recursion tool that I am dubious about suggesting is Noxious Revival. Instant speed, mana free and goes grabs anything. On the flip side, it messes with dredging. I think it would be useful, what is your stance on it?
Also, are you going to make the opening post more informative? You mentioned early on in the piece that there are plethora of mini engines in the deck, and it would be easier to gauge what can be cut, and what can't, by seeing what you want to remain in the deck.
True, true.
I've thought of both of these, but havent arrived at conclusions for either yet. Evolution Charm has the benefit of having various modes of play, Noxious is free. Both of them have real merit, but I havent tested either yet.
Yes, I am. I'm thinking of collecting the pieces for this in paper, I'm enjoying it so much. This requires a primer to be written, because I sometimes consult my own threads to see what lines of play I could use ... >_>
I'm writing a primer for it right now - should be posted soonish.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Awesome. Because right now I look at the list and my head spins. The meta out here is 25% Sharrum 25% Mimeoplasm so everyone and their mother runs at least 3-5 pieces of graveyard hate. Would really like to read a breakdown of some interactions and plays.