Yes, I did indeed mean Ensouled Scimitar. Good to hear that Heartwood works well in your meta. It's certainly a group hug card even without running an all creature deck, but I always cringe at the thought of helping others more than myself during the game.
I'm looking forward to M14 and how it helps. That angel will certainly be nice, and hopefully we get something decent besides an influx of Sliver decks.
Have what do you think about running cards like Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts with a stronger sac/devour subtheme? I've been looking at some of the new saproling engines in M14 and alongside cards like Skullmulcher they look like they could be really fun to play.
Have what do you think about running cards like Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts with a stronger sac/devour subtheme? I've been looking at some of the new saproling engines in M14 and alongside cards like Skullmulcher they look like they could be really fun to play.
I suppose, but it seems subpar to run a Saproling theme in a Necra deck without making it a Ghave deck.
Finally taking some time to sit down with my Doran deck list again before my group does some play this weekend..
With that I'm back on the Vigi thing again, sadly I think with some of the "cares about power being low" cards going except for perhaps a Meekstone inclusion.. Elesh Norn is probably going back in, which is funny since she just came out the last time.. but I was also debating Akroma's Memorial, which I usually associate more with Token decks, but.. it helps with Flying (a weak point) and gives Vigilance. However I can see it's cost being a.. meh.. point. Whats your thoughts of Akroma's Memorial?
Other than that I'm going over Seedborn Muse, Concerted Effort and Winding Canyons as some new inclusions.. Concerted Effort also feeling kind of meh without the right activators, but worth a look over.
Also, as far as Sword of Light and Shadow goes.. I ended up with another one from Modern Masters, and now I can't pick which art goes into the deck. Damn options.
Finally taking some time to sit down with my Doran deck list again before my group does some play this weekend..
With that I'm back on the Vigi thing again, sadly I think with some of the "cares about power being low" cards going except for perhaps a Meekstone inclusion.. Elesh Norn is probably going back in, which is funny since she just came out the last time.. but I was also debating Akroma's Memorial, which I usually associate more with Token decks, but.. it helps with Flying (a weak point) and gives Vigilance. However I can see it's cost being a.. meh.. point. Whats your thoughts of Akroma's Memorial?
Other than that I'm going over Seedborn Muse, Concerted Effort and Winding Canyons as some new inclusions.. Concerted Effort also feeling kind of meh without the right activators, but worth a look over.
Also, as far as Sword of Light and Shadow goes.. I ended up with another one from Modern Masters, and now I can't pick which art goes into the deck. Damn options.
Memorial is one of those that you'll probably just have to test for yourself. The abilities are great, but the cost sucks. I'm pretty sure I had it in here with Storm Herd, but I could be mistaken. I think a lot depends on how consistent you expect to have a board state worth the benefit of a different 7-drop.
What I liked about Concerted Effort was that when you end up with a mix of decent abilities, you end up granting all your dudes stuff. Flying, first strike, trample, and vigilance aren't that hard to come by (but then again, Memorial will do all that and more....)
My opinion is new art for the swords. I'm a little sad that I have a Sword of B&M and now I want another for the new art and border.
You mentioned that you originally had a Halloween themed Doran deck, did you run Season of the Witch? I know it's not the best card in the word, but I really love the flavor of it was was looking to give my Doran deck a more specific Wu-Tang meets Gangland pranks flavor. Any suggestions of tricks I could pull with it?
You mentioned that you originally had a Halloween themed Doran deck, did you run Season of the Witch? I know it's not the best card in the word, but I really love the flavor of it was was looking to give my Doran deck a more specific Wu-Tang meets Gangland pranks flavor. Any suggestions of tricks I could pull with it?
I didn't run it because I built the deck for as cheap as possible (since it was a gag deck) on MTGO, and Season isn't available online.
I didn't run it because I built the deck for as cheap as possible (since it was a gag deck) on MTGO, and Season isn't available online.
What do you mean Wu-Tang meets Gangland?
Yeah, I realize the flavors I think up in my head are usually very hard to express to other people, but I'm looking to create a deck in which the characters in it are a gang of organized hoodrats. The Extort cards and Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts add to the organized syndicate element, while casual cards I'm testing out, like Imp's Taunt bring out the schoolyard bully aspect of things. This mostly came out of the fact that I was listening to a lot of Wu-Tang Clan while putting the deck together, so I want the deck to reflect their raw, aggro, street savvy nature.
I'm gonna post my current Doran deck here since you played a huge role in building it (plus the fact that people will see this more compared to me just making a new post... oh and congrats on Primer status!)
Taking off from cryogen's idea, I decided to make a Doran deck with tons of MLD and efficient creatures. Combine that with equipment and the ever-powerful Torpor Orb, games get real crazy real quick.
- The theory is that the deck runs solid efficient creatures that works around TORPOR ORB. Of course there are cards like Sun Titan, Aura Shards and Eternal Witness that are just too good to be used despite having Torpor Orb in the deck.
- Angelic Skirmisher looks good on paper since I haven't had the chance to draw it yet and is a strict upgrade to Oathsworn Giant I think. Vigilance on your turn and keep choosing first strike for everyone else's turn.
- I may need more recursion like Genesis and Elixir or Immortality since this deck has practically no ultra-late game play.
Now, the problems I'm facing are:
1. I may have a low creature count
2. Not much protection i.e. Spike Weaver, or the like
3. As tempting as it is to take the Stax route, I don't want to since I want to be low-profile which is kind of counter intuitive since Doran could swing out of the gates by turn 3 or 4.
I don't have time to comment on the rest this early, but Angelic Skirmisher has lots of potential.. I would combine him with Oathsworn myself though. They seem like they could be friends.
I don't have time to comment on the rest this early, but Angelic Skirmisher has lots of potential.. I would combine him with Oathsworn myself though. They seem like they could be friends.
Yeah she's pretty dope. Lifegain/defense/combat tricks in a pinch. <3
So I just got Static Orb and Loxodon Gatekeeper to keep the deck's theme of stymieing other decks while Doran goes in for the kill. What should I take out for these two? I know Static Orb deserves at least a consideration. I'm not so sure about the Gatekeeper.
I don't have time to comment on the rest this early, but Angelic Skirmisher has lots of potential.. I would combine him with Oathsworn myself though. They seem like they could be friends.
This is my thought as well, although you're starting to move towards the higher end of the deck's curve. I'd also lose the guildgates. I abhor lands that CIPT, and you'd probably be better off with basics and running some 2cmc ramp like Nature's Lore (which can find a nonbasic) or even Rampant Growth.
All in all, the deck looks really good, and I'm sure it'll work well.
This is my thought as well, although you're starting to move towards the higher end of the deck's curve. I'd also lose the guildgates. I abhor lands that CIPT, and you'd probably be better off with basics and running some 2cmc ramp like Nature's Lore (which can find a nonbasic) or even Rampant Growth.
All in all, the deck looks really good, and I'm sure it'll work well.
Yeah the guildgates have been on the chopping block for a while but they ensure a turn 3 doran MOST of the time.
Anyway, I've been playing Karador for too long, I haven't had a balls out aggro general. Is turn 3 really the optimal turn to crank him out? Won't that turn the table against you?
That's one of those things that you just have to gauge. I've had opening hands that I knew would be explosive and have been able to just roll the table and let my attrition keep me from running out of gas. More often I'm playing slower, but I also look at the mana fixing as setting up your ability to cast spells for the first six turns, not just dropping a turn three Doran into turn four equipped sword.
Well I've been slacking a bit, but in my defense I was putting this off because I was totally disappointed with M14 overall. Note that these are only the cards which I think could find a home with Doran:
White
Angelic Accord - You'd have to be pushing a life gain theme hard, but I suppose this could be playable.
Archangel of Thrune - She pretty much has to be dealt with immediately, but I don't consider her an auto-include simply because I tend to be a cautious player and try not to over-extend.
Celestial Flare - It's got the downside of needing someone to attack alone to be reliable, but in those instances where you can't Condemn a hexproof voltron general, this is a good card to run.
Imposing Soverign - I'd much rather run Blind Obedience at this cmc. I think he's too fragile, and more of a back-up back-up effect.
Path of Bravery - While this doesn't do anything on its own (because lifegain doesn't always mean anything in Commander), this will really help your lifegain deck achieve its wincon.
Black
Artificer's Hex - I misread this when it was spoiled and thought it destroyed the equipment, but this is a really nice (if slow) form of removal. I think it's typically going to be stuck on Lightning Greaves cards.
Grim Return - Instant speed recursion is nice, even if there's a condition attached. The cmc is nice though, since with all the removal we run we're typically going to want to leave three untapped in general.
Rise of the Dark Realms - Meh. It's really expensive, but it could maybe be good in a pillowfort deck, especially if you plan on wrathing a lot, in which case this could make an effective wincon.
Green
Savage Summoning - We're not typically in the colors to be sneaky, so this is a decent way to stay untapped and flash out Doran (or anything else).
Voracious Wurm - Pretty weak IMO, even in a lifegain deck, but it's still going to be a large creature for little investment.
Colorless
Encroaching Wastes - A poor man's Strip Mine. I've been running this online simply because I don't have a Mine, and as a backup to Tectonic Edge it isn't bad. If you're limited on the number of colorless sources you can run and have access to better LD, avoid this.
Strionic Resonator - We're running a fair number of effects that this can copy, but I don't feel this is the best deck for it. YMMV, though.
I haven't gotten to do much deck building/managing lately, but should be getting some time soon. What's your opinion on Deadbridge Chant and that Angelic Skirmisher discussed earlier in the thread? I was thinking Chant is technically a draw effect with potential to explode, but its high cost.. Skirmisher I really like though.
I haven't gotten to do much deck building/managing lately, but should be getting some time soon. What's your opinion on Deadbridge Chant and that Angelic Skirmisher discussed earlier in the thread? I was thinking Chant is technically a draw effect with potential to explode, but its high cost.. Skirmisher I really like though.
I've used Chant to great effect in my Karador deck. I'd put it in the same category of enchantments like Debtors' Knell that need to be dealt with because they provide a nice advantage over time. That it's a random card and it mills you lessens its effect, especially if you don't have as much recursion, but I still like it.
Skirmisher is a pretty interesting card. In a toughness matters theme, having multiple ways to give everything vigilance is nice, and if you've already got something like Oathsworn Giant in play, the first strike or lifelink can help. Overall, she's pretty versatile.
Finally finished the revisions to my Doran deck, making it functional without Doran in play, and focusing on a spell slinging theme with discard spells, lifedrain, and creature recursion.
I went heavy with ramp, but still I'm worried about my creature curve, and having an early game presence; thoughts?
Heroic - In a vacuum, this seems to be mediocre mechanic for Commander. Outside of voltron auras (namely Uril, the Miststalker), the use seems limited. If there were a card that could grant a creature the heroic ability, then I could see doing a voltron build, but as it currently stands, heroic is more of a Limited or Standard mechanic.
Bestow - Again, more of an Uril card, but the idea of boosting a creature and then still having a creature after a wrath is nice. There's a few decent bestow cards, but a lot of them are expensive to cast and there's probably an easier way to do it with equipment.
Devotion - In a three color deck, devotion is a hard thing to trigger. We've got green for mana-fixing, so it's not impossible though.
Monstrosity - Like bestow, it's a good concept, but in practice the mechanic is limited by the amount of mana we're spending and the amount of removal the format runs.
Scry - A returning mechanic that already sees play in Commander. Knowledge is power, and scry is knowledge.
White:
Chosen by Heliod - More of a budget/Pauper card, but the defensive boost is good with Doran, and it replaces itself.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion - Every single ability on this card is perfect for Doran. Roll her up to make chump blockers. Roll her down for a one-sided wrath (not exactly, but you get the idea). Use her ultimate, and Doran gives people a shorter clock.
Gift of Immortality - Makes your dude live longer. I really like this card in a non-reanimator build.
Gods Willing - Dodge removal, sneak through during combat, and scry for your effort.
Hundred-Handed One - I'm not sure if it's good enough to make the final cut, but it's not bad for Doran, especially in defense.
Scholar of Athreos - I like extort, so this is a natural extension. It's also an effective 4/4 with Doran out, so there's that too.
Yoked Ox - Some Doran builds like to go all-in aggro. This is potentially a card for them.
Black:
Erebos, God of the Dead - Some people like this card, and personally, I don't see it. Just for the card draw I'd run Greed over this, despite the indestructible clause. Lifegain isn't a big enough strategy, and since we primarily rely on general damage, it doesn't bother us outside of as a wincon. Yes, he'll be a formidable beater if the devotion is met, but in three colors that's going to be harder.
I'm looking forward to M14 and how it helps. That angel will certainly be nice, and hopefully we get something decent besides an influx of Sliver decks.
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Thanks! The thread stayed pretty low-key for the most part, but there's been somewhat of a cult following (because Doran is cool like that).
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I suppose, but it seems subpar to run a Saproling theme in a Necra deck without making it a Ghave deck.
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With that I'm back on the Vigi thing again, sadly I think with some of the "cares about power being low" cards going except for perhaps a Meekstone inclusion.. Elesh Norn is probably going back in, which is funny since she just came out the last time.. but I was also debating Akroma's Memorial, which I usually associate more with Token decks, but.. it helps with Flying (a weak point) and gives Vigilance. However I can see it's cost being a.. meh.. point. Whats your thoughts of Akroma's Memorial?
Other than that I'm going over Seedborn Muse, Concerted Effort and Winding Canyons as some new inclusions.. Concerted Effort also feeling kind of meh without the right activators, but worth a look over.
Also, as far as Sword of Light and Shadow goes.. I ended up with another one from Modern Masters, and now I can't pick which art goes into the deck. Damn options.
Sig by Self
Memorial is one of those that you'll probably just have to test for yourself. The abilities are great, but the cost sucks. I'm pretty sure I had it in here with Storm Herd, but I could be mistaken. I think a lot depends on how consistent you expect to have a board state worth the benefit of a different 7-drop.
What I liked about Concerted Effort was that when you end up with a mix of decent abilities, you end up granting all your dudes stuff. Flying, first strike, trample, and vigilance aren't that hard to come by (but then again, Memorial will do all that and more....)
My opinion is new art for the swords. I'm a little sad that I have a Sword of B&M and now I want another for the new art and border.
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I didn't run it because I built the deck for as cheap as possible (since it was a gag deck) on MTGO, and Season isn't available online.
What do you mean Wu-Tang meets Gangland?
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Yeah, I realize the flavors I think up in my head are usually very hard to express to other people, but I'm looking to create a deck in which the characters in it are a gang of organized hoodrats. The Extort cards and Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts add to the organized syndicate element, while casual cards I'm testing out, like Imp's Taunt bring out the schoolyard bully aspect of things. This mostly came out of the fact that I was listening to a lot of Wu-Tang Clan while putting the deck together, so I want the deck to reflect their raw, aggro, street savvy nature.
GWUBRDraft my Old Border Nostalgia Cube! and/or The Little Pauper Cube That Could!RBUWG
Modern:WDeath & TaxesW | RUGRUG DelverRUG
Taking off from cryogen's idea, I decided to make a Doran deck with tons of MLD and efficient creatures. Combine that with equipment and the ever-powerful Torpor Orb, games get real crazy real quick.
1 Doran, the Siege Tower
Sac Outlet
1 Viscera Seer
Recursion
1 Sun Titan
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reveillark
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Regrowth
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Trading Post
Utility and Meat
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Intrepid Hero
1 Silklash Spider
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thornling
1 Skinshifter
1 Acidic Slime
1 Withered Wretch
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Divinity of Pride
1 Angelic Skirmisher
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Blind Obedience
1 Aura Shards
1 Luminarch Ascension
PAIN
1 Torpor Orb
Draw
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Sylvan Library
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Global Ruin
1 Armageddon
1 Cataclysm
1 Damnation
1 Austere Command
1 Catastrophe
Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Land Tax
1 Expedition Map
1 Stonehewer Giant
1 Stoneforge Mystic
Removal
1 Beast Within
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Oblation
1 Path to Exile
1 Putrefy
1 Mortify
1 Maelstrom Pulse
Ramp
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Golgari Signet
1 Selesnya Signet
1 Coalition Relic
1 Sol Ring
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Darksteel Ingot
Gear
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Behemoth Sledge
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
1 Command Tower
1 Murmuring Bosk
1 Brushland
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Selesnya Guildgate
1 Golgari Guildgate
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Twilight Mire
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Homeward Path
1 Strip Mine
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Shirei, Death's Storehouse
3 Forest
3 Swamp
3 Plains
- The theory is that the deck runs solid efficient creatures that works around TORPOR ORB. Of course there are cards like Sun Titan, Aura Shards and Eternal Witness that are just too good to be used despite having Torpor Orb in the deck.
- Angelic Skirmisher looks good on paper since I haven't had the chance to draw it yet and is a strict upgrade to Oathsworn Giant I think. Vigilance on your turn and keep choosing first strike for everyone else's turn.
- I may need more recursion like Genesis and Elixir or Immortality since this deck has practically no ultra-late game play.
Now, the problems I'm facing are:
1. I may have a low creature count
2. Not much protection i.e. Spike Weaver, or the like
3. As tempting as it is to take the Stax route, I don't want to since I want to be low-profile which is kind of counter intuitive since Doran could swing out of the gates by turn 3 or 4.
Thanks for the feedback!
BWGGhave the psycho shroomBWG
BWGKarador the crippler!BWG
Sig by Self
Yeah she's pretty dope. Lifegain/defense/combat tricks in a pinch. <3
So I just got Static Orb and Loxodon Gatekeeper to keep the deck's theme of stymieing other decks while Doran goes in for the kill. What should I take out for these two? I know Static Orb deserves at least a consideration. I'm not so sure about the Gatekeeper.
EDIT:
Anyway, I took out the Viscera Seer and Maelstrom Pulse for Static Orband Loxodon Gatekeeper. Also gone are Scavenging Ooze and Intrepid Hero for Gaddock Teeg and Elixir of Immortality.
BWGGhave the psycho shroomBWG
BWGKarador the crippler!BWG
This is my thought as well, although you're starting to move towards the higher end of the deck's curve. I'd also lose the guildgates. I abhor lands that CIPT, and you'd probably be better off with basics and running some 2cmc ramp like Nature's Lore (which can find a nonbasic) or even Rampant Growth.
All in all, the deck looks really good, and I'm sure it'll work well.
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Yeah the guildgates have been on the chopping block for a while but they ensure a turn 3 doran MOST of the time.
Anyway, I've been playing Karador for too long, I haven't had a balls out aggro general. Is turn 3 really the optimal turn to crank him out? Won't that turn the table against you?
BWGGhave the psycho shroomBWG
BWGKarador the crippler!BWG
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White
Black
Green
Colorless
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Sig by Self
I've used Chant to great effect in my Karador deck. I'd put it in the same category of enchantments like Debtors' Knell that need to be dealt with because they provide a nice advantage over time. That it's a random card and it mills you lessens its effect, especially if you don't have as much recursion, but I still like it.
Skirmisher is a pretty interesting card. In a toughness matters theme, having multiple ways to give everything vigilance is nice, and if you've already got something like Oathsworn Giant in play, the first strike or lifelink can help. Overall, she's pretty versatile.
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I went heavy with ramp, but still I'm worried about my creature curve, and having an early game presence; thoughts?
3 Doran, the Siege Tower
Shaolin Deciples (15)
3 Royal Assassin
3 Eternal Witness
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Big Game Hunter
3 Toshiro Umezawa
4 Indomitable Ancients
5 Reveillark
5 Chainer, Dementia Master
6 Deadwood Treefolk
6 Pontiff of Blight
6 Sun Titan
6 Angelic Skirmisher
7 Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts
7 Rune-Scarred Demon
7 Sheoldred, Whispering One
Enchantments (5)
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
2 Blind Obedience
3 Necropotence
3 Spidersilk Armor
6 Primeval Bounty
Discard (4)
1 Mind Twist
2 Mind Shatter
3 Down // Dirty
6 Identity Crisis
Lifedrain (2)
6 Corrupt
2 Exsinguinate
Removal (7)
2 Geth's Verdict
3 Putrefy
3 Mortify
2 Chainer's Edict
4 Cataclysm
6 Merciless Eviction
8 Decree of Pain
1 Silence
2 Otherwordly Journey
3 Sudden Spoiling
3 Ready // Willing
Creature Recursion (4)
1 Reanimate
2 Grim Harvest
3 Debt of Loyalty
5 Unburial Rites
Spell Recursion (4)
1 Reclaim
2 Regrowth
3 Yawgmoth's Will
5 Obzedat's Aid
Equipment (5)
1 Slagwurm Armor
1 Basilisk Collar
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Nim Deathmantle
7 Elbrus, the Binding Blade
Planeswalker (1)
5 Vraska, the Unseen
Tutors (3)
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Demonic Tutor
5 Increasing Ambition
Ramp / Fixing (9)
1 Expedition Map
2 Rampant Growth
2 Sylvan Scrying
2 Farseek
3 Cultivate
3 Kodama's Reach
3 Chromatic Lantern
4 Skyshroud Claim
3 Orzhov Keyrune
8 Swamp
6 Plains
5 Forest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Golgori Rot Farm
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Murmuring Bosk
1 Sungrass Prairie
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Forbidding Watchtower
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
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Also, how are Primeval Bounty and Elbrus playing out.
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White:
Black:
Green:
Multicolored:
Colorless:
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