I put in archive over the other draw doubler. The 5 mana colourlessness of it is awesome, as you can get into play pretty easily and then it survives all is dust. Worth losing the extra card from the draw phase for ease and quickness of casting (and u can get it with fabricate).
I also run an additional bounce spell (evac) as my meta is very creature heavy, but overall its the same list. Great deck. It's the first time I have had fun (and the other players too) playing combo at my commander nights.
Hi everyone, thanks for the continued support! Just wanted to check back in with a small list of changes from last year's list. Of course, at this point the decklist is very tightly tuned, so changes are few and far between at this stage of the game. But, they are nonetheless important! Some of you have emailed me - apologies to those I haven't replied to yet. I recently finished my PhD Qualifying Exams, and the months leading up to it were literal hell, so I'm a bit behind on that front, but getting back into it now!
Not many changes in the last year or so, and what changes there are focus on smoothing the early-game and continuing combo chains. Mindmoil, though RIDICULOUSLY powerful, has caused unintended self-KO's much more frequently than desired. Paired with Thought Reflection, it means you can easily draw out your deck if you get into an Instant war (if only Thought Reflection's ability was elective and not mandatory...). I was always afraid to drop it because of this, and the deck already has a pretty easy time combo'ing out when the momentum gets moving. Day's Undoing replaces it as a Handcycler. Just look at this thing - it's ridiculous! It's basically Timetwister (well, almost). 3 cmc, shuffles everything up... and pairs great with instant-speed enablers.
Gamble was just that - a Gamble. Great in a pinch but most of the time I didn't want to cast it. Early it's not so great (the rest of the table can often stabilize the game if needed) and most other times, it risks throwing away key cards. This deck really wants to continuously cast spells and this made me afraid to do so. Similarly, Mystic Remora is a tabletop hero and hidden gem of a card, but it's just hurts the tempo too much (and directs attention to you early-on). It was hard cutting this one, but I feel it's for the best. Ponder and Preordain take these two slots.
Acquire is out for now - it's great finding an opponent's Gilded Lotus, and it's one of the very best cards in blue, but it just doesn't synergize with the rest of the deck very well. It's a fantastic card, but only if you get it when you hit 7-8 mana on the board. Any earlier and it's useless (forcing you to tap out and give up a turn), any later and it doesn't really synergize with what the rest of the deck is doing. For now, Evacuation is in. its0v3r9000 mentioned it in the thread, and I think it's a great solution to one of the deck's key weaknesses (swarm and creature-heavy games). This may eventually be replaced, but for now I'm liking it.
The last change sees Jace's Sanctum swapping in for Cunning Wish. The wish is arguably more powerful, but only if it's allowed to be used, and in my opinion it doesn't really fit the spirit of Commander. Jace's Sanctum is a perfect addition, giving us acceleration and enhanced top-decking abilities.
I'm trying to find the proper slot for Alhammarret's Archive, but alas, this has aluded me so far. Perhaps a counterspell should go? Let me know if any of you have recommendations.
Onwards and upwards, Niv-Mizzet players! I hope you're still having as much of a blast with this list as I am!
Just wanted to mention that Day's Undoing will actually exile itself upon resolution. It's not explicitly stated but in the reminder text it mentions it.
Well if you cast it on someone else's turn the turn doesn't end so it won't exile itself and will resolve.
Yep, this is the answer! Even though it sometimes exiles itself, the key is that when paired with a flash-enabler, Day's Undoing is more-or-less a Timetwister reprint. I actually PREFER having the drawback.... because it allows the card to be very aggressively costed, and we can flash to avoid the drawback anyway! In other words, I'd much rather have this card at 2U than a less-restrictive printing at 3U/3UU/4U.
He's strong, but my version of the list is tuned for spell-based handcycling. They provide an immediate effect (don't have to wait for summoning sickness), don't die to removal, and can be used multiple times per turn (when you are comboing and keep re-shuffling graveyard into library this is not uncommon). Next - the ability activation cost can't be paid using Dream Halls or Omniscience. Perhaps most importantly, the creature-based effects tend to be reusable, and therefore have a higher initial mana investment... something we can't afford when we're trying to hit as many spells as possible (Magus of the Wheel costs 3RR to match the 2R effect of Wheel of Fortune).
That said, there are many ways to build the deck! Many of these effects have creature-equivalents, most of which are also much cheaper than their sorcery equivalents... so, if you were to tune your list specifically for enabling and protecting creature-based effects, you could have a very powerful list, and one which is probably much less expensive than this one!
Alhammarret's Archive is currently in for Thought Reflection - we lose the initial draw each turn, but the lower CMC hump is actually a really huge deal (especially with counterspells in this deck). Not only does this come online earlier, but also interacts well with Dack Fayden and some of the recent draw-filtering additions to the list. Hitting the battlefield 1-2 turns earlier gives it plenty of time to catch up / surpass where we'd be with Thought Reflection
Time Warp was really hard to cut (it was between that and a counterspell), but I don't know that we need two extra-turn cards (especially if you're playing into counterspells or Swerve effects). Plus, Dack Fayden is simply incredible at 3 cmc. The goal here is not to combo with Niv-Mizzet, but rather to further smooth the early game (well, the whole game, really) and enable higher-quality card options (plus, stealing the occasional Sol Ring / Gilded Lotus). He also combos extremely well with the Top-Deck Toolbox discussed in the initial post. He's been in and out before, but that was a while ago - and I think this time he's here to stay!
I will, of course, update everyone when changes are solidified - thanks for tuning in!
A quick update on pending decklist changes. After only a few days, I've been missing Time Warp - running two of these effects is just too good to pass up in this deck, whether for additional mid-game tempo/card-advantage, or for late-game combos. Instead, I'll be testing without Elixir of Immortality; Time Warp will be back in that spot. With the recent addition of Day's Undoing to the decklist (AKA a second infinitely-repeatable Timetwister effect, if paired with a flash-enabler), as well as the elimination of Mindmoil, the likelihood of self-mill is greatly reduced to the point that EoI doesn't really justify its slot anymore. It still has niche utility, but most times it's a dead draw and Time Warp would be far better.
Hi folks, just briefly checking in - no changes to the decklist with the recent release of Eldritch Moon. Curious Homunculus (more specifically its back-side, Voracious Reader) is an interesting alternative to Jace's Sanctum at half the price, but has a few key issues (in descending order of importance): (a) takes a full turn to come online, (b) doesn't help you dig to combo-out, and (c) more easily dies to removal. Sanctum is pretty strictly a late-game card in my build (especially as it draws a LOT of attention once it lands, so swiftness is key), so the benefits definitely outweigh the extra 1U cost and Homunculus just doesn't tick all the right boxes.
Thanks for the question! Actually I'm not including it as of now. Here is my reasoning:
The number of handcyclers in the deck is pretty good already - if we're going to add another, it must do something special/unique for us. That way, we can remove something else from the list. In other words, the new addition should fill a utility slot as well (for ex. countering THEN handcycling in one spell would be a cool mechanic - but probably wouldn't be printed at a reasonable cost). Damage doesn't provide that much return-on-investment for toolboxing - maybe pinging a creature/general, but otherwise it's a huge tempo killer.
To replace an existing handcycler, the new one must do something better than the old... in the context of this specific decklist. That last bit is crucial - this particular build of Niv-Mizzet usually combo's out in one turn (or series of Time Walk turns), and we do not actually shoot for a super-large hand (quite unlike other builds which look to maximize hand size and drop cards like this for the win). Damage when combo'ing is not usually an issue - if we'd be playing this card for lethal damage, we're on the road to victory anyway. Instead, getting to that point in the game reliably (and dealing with disruption) is the issue - this card costs more than others and in return, unfortunately doesn't really solve the problem of getting through the early game smoothly.
Things I think we'd love to see to replace existing handcyclers: faster speed (instant-speed Winds of Change); lower cmc; less restrictive mana cost (preferably only one color symbol and preferably U over R); self-protection of some sort (i.e. split-second, etc); graveyard recycling (replacing a card that doesn't have this); draw-7 (great for early game, lets you dump your hand quickly); discard and draw same number + 2 (or some other reasonable value); non-creature-based alternative costs (i.e. Phyrexian mana); reusable ability without undue investment/cost... just a few examples
Double-R is periodically kind of a problem, especially when combo'ing (nothing worse than failing to win due to lack of colors)
And finally.... the primary reason is the cost - 4 cmc. For that price, we need some guaranteed return-on-investment, or some real anti-symmetry. Something like (a) Draw-7, (b) Draw twice the number of cards you started with, (c) Draw the same number you started with + 2, something like that - because the card is only useful if your hand is large. 4 cmc is a high price to pay for a spell that doesn't help you in the early game when you want to quickly dump and refill your hand.
Keep in mind that hand size is checked upon resolution, when this card is no longer in your hand - so it can't replace itself (which is really a killer when you're down to 2-3 cards-in-hand - casting this means you pay 2RR - likely your whole turn, if the game is young - just to cycle your other 1/2 cards).
To compare and contrast Fateful Showdown with similar cards in the deck: Winds of Change: Costs just R (1/4 the cmc) - you give up instant-speed and some damage, but the cost is extremely low Tolarian Winds: In blue, only 1 color symbol, and only 2 cmc. No damage - but honestly, no biggie Whirlpool Warrior: Gives you two uses for the same CMC as Fateful Showdown, and the second use combos with Consecrated Sphinx
Edit: I do want to quickly stress, however, that this card isn't out-of-place in Niv-Mizzet decks in general. This style of victory (drawing out sizeable portions of your deck + big burn spells like this) is quite strong, but it's a different archetype and is best when specifically built around. It just doesn't quite fit here, because our major advantage is low-CMC, extreme-efficiency spells - either on their own (acceleration/control in the early game), or chained together for a sudden, explosive win.
It's more expensive than I'd like, but packs a lot of versatility. Not quite as broken as Cryptic Command, unfortunately, but still worth watching out for. I don't know where it would fit in the list... perhaps taking a slot from Dissipate or Forbid... but 4 cmc is a pretty steep price to pay, especially when you don't get two benefits like Cryptic does. I don't suspect this card will make the list but I'm keeping my eye on it.
I want to love Merchant Scroll, but two things kill it: (a) it can't find sorceries (most of our wheel effects), and (b) it's not an instant. Typically it finds a counterspell, which draws aggro and also telegraphs our hand a bit. It CAN find Mystical Tutor, but that still doesn't get other tools in-hand. So, I've put Swan Song in that place. At 1cmc it's extremely inexpensive and counters many of the biggest, nastiest spells, while also creating opportunities where opponents think we're too tapped out to respond.
Other cards I'm playing with but haven't quite found a place for. I like both, but not sure what to take out for them! Insidious Will Vandalblast
If your decklist is current, why not replace Counterflux? Counterflux is only more useful in certain situations, how often does it come up?
Without checking older posts, have you decided against the following:
1. Memory Jar?
2. Jace, Vryn's Prodigy?
3. Bazaar of Baghdad (lol)?
Counterflux is there because I felt the deck needs to keep up its count of hard counters, and there aren't really any other options below 3cmc (they all come with strings attached, or conditions). It has versatility for the small % of scenarios it needs it, and otherwise, a 3cmc hard counter is just really useful. I've found the jump from 3 -> 4 (Insidious Will for example) is a really tough hurdle to clear if you're trying to play other things on your turn. The exception to this is Cryptic Command, because it gives you so many options while also letting you draw.
Before addressing the three cards you asked about, it's worth mentioning that, uninterrupted, the deck will quite reliably combo out on ~Turn 4-6 (without relying on infinite combos or otherwise). It only needs to reach 5 mana to win (Dream Halls) and in many cases only has mana rocks on the battlefield on the turns before it wins - then it suddenly drops a few permanents and chains Timetwister effects to kill everyone off. So, every choice in the deck must either: (a) Help the early game by providing immediate card advantage and/or tempo; (b) Assist in chaining the combo together for the victory; or (c) Protect our wincon (counterspells, and sometimes Shattering Spree). The three you listed aren't quick and/or cheap enough for (a) or (b) and don't apply to (c).
Memory Jar was in the deck way back when, but it came out because it's fragile and comes with a large up-front investment. Unless you flash it out, it must survive a full turn cycle for you to really make use of it. People know what Niv-Mizzet does, so often it just eats the dust... you need to fly under the radar until you're ready to combo out, and this doesn't help you out with that. I really wish it cost 2 with 3T in the ability, because then you could drop it for 2 and spend your turn doing other things. But at 5 it's a big commitment in a deck that's already racing the clock. Also, unlike most of the wheels it doesn't get cheaper with Sapphire Medallion and Jace's Sanctum, which hurts its combo potential.
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy has two problems... he doesn't provide immediate return-on-investment (he needs a few activations to really be worth it), and he doesn't really satisfy any "needs" of the deck. Looting is a really great ability in a vacuum but it doesn't really help us reach our goals.
Two issues with Bazaar of Baghdad... first, I don't build around a graveyard sub-theme, so I can't abuse the discard ability like the decks that really want to play it. Second, comboing off usually happens in one turn, and card advantage up until that point is really important. Cards like Winds of Change and Tolarian Winds need you to keep your hand size large, which doesn't synergize well with Bazaar.
I already understand how the deck works. However, the answers you provided do give insight into the environment that you play in.
I don't know your current decklist, but seems like you absolutely require Niv-Mizzet in play and need to draw 40 cards per opponent to win? That's why I suggested those cards. The way you play, it seems like you need even more "pitch" counters. Why not run Misdirection to protect Niv-Mizzet? You might not run "infinite combos" but if comboing off means winning then it might as well be considered an infinite.
I find it difficult to believe competent opponents will allow you to fly under the radar. To me, having a weaker board state just means you're easier to attack and deal 40 to. It seems like you almost never have any blockers.
1. Memory Jar is basically another "deal with me or lose" card. If someone is going to destroy it, good on them. But if they don't... It appears that you run enough artifact mana to use it, even during the turn in which you're wheeling. Is saying Jar is only good with flash sorta like saying the same thing with Day's Undoing?
2. Jace, VP doesn't provide immediate impact, but I'm not sure every card in the 99 can be that way (the flash enablers come to mind). His payoff is quite strong. Combo'ing is never just a "one turn" thing. Even if you're chaining all of your spells in one turn, you're spending the entire early game setting that up. And since you're a combo deck, I don't see how looting doesn't help your goals whether or not you use your graveyard. He's also an early blocker and can flip to avoid the graveyard.
3. You might not use the graveyard currently, however, Bazaar and Jace VP work well with Thought Reflection and Al's Archive. And that's why I even suggested Bazaar because it'd be difficult to give up a land-drop to use it. Bazaar is generally impossible to run in a 35 land combo deck. But I figured your environment might allow it?
I love Thought Reflection and even though it's really only strong with Omniscience and Dream Halls powering it out, I don't think I'd ever cut it from decks I play. Since you're only using Niv-Mizzet, I don't think you can cut it.
I already understand how the deck works. However, the answers you provided do give insight into the environment that you play in.
I don't know your current decklist, but seems like you absolutely require Niv-Mizzet in play and need to draw 40 cards per opponent to win? That's why I suggested those cards. The way you play, it seems like you need even more "pitch" counters. Why not run Misdirection to protect Niv-Mizzet? You might not run "infinite combos" but if comboing off means winning then it might as well be considered an infinite.
I find it difficult to believe competent opponents will allow you to fly under the radar. To me, having a weaker board state just means you're easier to attack and deal 40 to. It seems like you almost never have any blockers.
1. Memory Jar is basically another "deal with me or lose" card. If someone is going to destroy it, good on them. But if they don't... It appears that you run enough artifact mana to use it, even during the turn in which you're wheeling. Is saying Jar is only good with flash sorta like saying the same thing with Day's Undoing?
2. Jace, VP doesn't provide immediate impact, but I'm not sure every card in the 99 can be that way (the flash enablers come to mind). His payoff is quite strong. Combo'ing is never just a "one turn" thing. Even if you're chaining all of your spells in one turn, you're spending the entire early game setting that up. And since you're a combo deck, I don't see how looting doesn't help your goals whether or not you use your graveyard. He's also an early blocker and can flip to avoid the graveyard.
3. You might not use the graveyard currently, however, Bazaar and Jace VP work well with Thought Reflection and Al's Archive. And that's why I even suggested Bazaar because it'd be difficult to give up a land-drop to use it. Bazaar is generally impossible to run in a 35 land combo deck. But I figured your environment might allow it?
I love Thought Reflection and even though it's really only strong with Omniscience and Dream Halls powering it out, I don't think I'd ever cut it from decks I play. Since you're only using Niv-Mizzet, I don't think you can cut it.
Don't get me wrong, a Niv-Mizzet deck will never fly under the radar, but it is crucially important to make them think you're one or two turns behind where you really are or everyone will just kill you instead (as I mention below- this deck does go off in just one turn, even without going infinite). I don't want to suggest that we create a "weak" board state.... we still spend the first turns playing mana rocks and establishing a board presence as any other deck does. However, dropping the big bombs and combo pieces early (suggesting it's about to win on the following turn) gives good opponents time to identify this and prepare answers accordingly. Suggesting I'm about to win and then giving 3-4 competent players time to come after me usually means they either conspire to kill me immediately, or collectively overextend to set me irreparably far behind (with one of them inevitably coming out far ahead and winning shortly thereafter). It's not about looking "weak" so much as looking like you're a turn behind where you really are.
tl:dr Re: Counter-magic and dealing with opponents' creatures.... it's going to be different for everyone, and you'll need to make your own adjustments. That's the beauty of the format
You're correct, not many blockers in this list - mainly because they aren't needed in my playgroup (to prevent losing, that is) and thereby hurt the efficiency of the gameplan. Most of our players have moved away from fast-aggro creature strategies (there are enough wraths to dissuade that approach) and Kaalia-style aggro can be kept in check long enough with countermagic for us do our thing (not that chump blockers really help against her anyway). Of course, every list will need its own adjustments - but I'd probably dissuade against blockers anyway, I think removal or bounce is more flexible and a more efficient use of your mana in this type of deck (Mizzium Mortars, Chain Reaction, Wash Out, etc.)
Getting Niv-Mizzet OTB isn't really that that bad. Mana Drain into Niv-Mizzet + combo off is quite common, and Dream Halls gets him for free. Omniscience doesn't get you there directly, but with all the draw in this list, resolving it means you can usually find the mana rocks needed to hard-cast him. If all else fails you can play a flash enabler and then hard-cast him EOT later on, but these items are serious threats, so proceed with caution. Protecting him once he lands is going to be different for everyone. It's perfectly reasonable to include Misdirection in your list if you feel it's necessary! I tend to think the card is too narrow, because it's not that useful outside of protecting him (it often can't stop an opponent from comboing off first, preventing their fatties from landing, etc.) Misdirection is definitely worth considering if it solves the problems you encounter - but I also recommend taking a long, hard glance at Dispel, Intervene, and Turn Aside, because often hitting U is better for the gameplan than card disadvantage. Much of the best removal in the format is solved simply by not letting your opponents play it (AKA winning the turn you play Niv-Mizzet). Lightning Greaves and the like don't protect him from instants anyway (they can just Path to Exile in response to the equip activation). So, sorcery-speed removal is typically not an issue, and instant-speed removal must be solved either through counterspells, or by winning a turn before they think you're going to (because they're tapped out trying to likewise win the game). Speed and card advantage are crucial!
On going infinite- the decklist can easily be modified by swapping Curiosity and Ophidian Eye into two slots of your choice. I don't include them because they are just stale to me now... but also, they aren't useful without Niv-Mizzet, whereas going the non-infinite route, pretty much every card is still great card advantage (or a great answer) when your commander is still in the Command Zone. It's all personal preference
1. I'm not saying Memory Jar shouldn't be in anyone's list, just that I find it to be too expensive up-front for what it does in my list and playgroup. The real killer with Jar is that it can't be played for free off of Dream Halls because it doesn't have colors. This deck is already a tad short on colored spells, and wheeling into a Jar while tapped out means you're dead in the water. If it were 3UU I would probably include it in a heartbeat! But, at 5 I can't easily cast it early on, AND it's really difficult to play around while combo'ing (plus, it doesn't get any cheaper from Jace's Sanctum and Sapphire Medallion like the other wheel effects).
2. Combo'ing is almost always a one-turn thing with this deck. When it's not, it's usually because of a Time Warp or Temporal Manipulation, which lets us discard our hand and then recycle the now-massive graveyard with Timetwister and do it all over again (it's really important to chain turns this way against a larger table, otherwise you will just deck yourself). The deck will easily kill the whole table in one go, but only if pretty much every card in the list helps you chain the combo. There are some exceptions (like the flash enablers) but I've found that these are simply too useful to cut... looting doesn't give me rapid enough ROI to justify inclusion.
3. Great point! I'll have to think about Bazaar in combination with these... but, keep in mind again that typically this deck does win in just one turn, and Bazaar is seriously hurtful card disadvantage without a draw-doubler.
I really want to find a place for Thought Reflection but the 7 cmc is just sooooo painful in an early hand. With symmetric wheel effects, Alhammarret's Archive isn't the only doubler... Consecrated Sphinx is too Thought Reflection was here for ~5 years, but since cutting it I've never missed it and have been extremely pleased with the improved tempo of the deck... seeing it in an opening hand (or worse, a mulligan hand) really gimps an otherwise well-tuned opening, and there are enough ways to win without it. At 7cmc it's also difficult to protect, because you still need to keep another 1-3 sources untapped for counterspells. Maybe it will eventually come back, but thus far I'm happy without it - YMMV!
I've really been overhauling the list in the past few months, the result of weekly games with a fantastic new-found playgroup in Boston. An update to the main post is coming soon - but here are the changes!
High Tide Package - High Tide should need no introduction, such is its power in Legacy. Yet, I had somehow passed it over until now. It's extremely explosive, helping you to establish board position or to combo off more resiliently. As a result, High Tide, Frantic Search, and many Islands are in - lots of (less-than-useful) non-basics are out. Yes, Oboro, Palace in the Clouds is nice to have in edge cases - but over time I've realized it's more "bling" than true value. As an added bonus, we're also less susceptible to non-basic hate. Note, Palinchron likely won't ever make it in here - at 7cmc there just isn't enough setup to justify it.
Cutting Colorless Cards - Casting handcycling cards off of Dream Halls requires matching colors - I've been burned more than once drawing into a hand with mostly artifacts and lands, stopping the combo dead. This, combined with an increasing concentration of artifact sweepers in my meta, means that mana rocks are less than stellar at this point. The deck still hits land drops and accelerates quickly enough - the draw and filtering sees to this. But, it now packs more responses while being less vulnerable to removal and wipes. However, I didn't want to get rid of them entirely, as the early-game acceleration is still useful - Coldsteel Heart makes an entry at the crucial 2cmc level.
Final Fortune + Stifle/Trickbind Package - Killing the table in this deck often requires more than one turn, as you draw most of the way through your library (eliminating 1-2 players), cast Time Warp, discard-to-7, and then start all over again with Timetwister (reloading your library) on the following turn. But, sometimes you just need one extra turn for setup - and Final Fortune is perfect for this. It's equivalent in cmc to Time Walk, so often cheap enough that another bomb can be played on the same turn. On the following turn, the "Lose the Game" is a triggered ability which can be countered with either Stifle or Trickbind, often for free off Omniscience or Dream Halls (Trickbind is preferred to ensure no opponent can meddle and cause you to lose). Still testing this one, but I'm liking it so far. Even without Final Fortune, Stifle and Trickbind have been star rookies - I've found many more uses than I've ever expected (for example- Storm is a triggered ability of a spell, and you can counter the single triggered ability to prevent ALL of the copies from ever being created). They require intricate knowledge of game mechanics to use properly but I don't see myself ever removing them now.
Mind's Desire - This is conceivably a win-more card on the conventional route to victory for this deck - but my general trend towards cantrip-style spells and the inclusion of the High Tide package means that this could be a potent alternative for those times when the standard pieces just can't be assembled (or won't stick). Currently testing.
Show and Tell - Like Dream Halls and Omniscience, this is a card that generally should not be played until you're ready to go off. It cheats in all the big players for us - but you need to watch out for hate bears and Terastodon effects. Fatties like Blightsteel Colossus and Avacyn, Angel of Hope are of little to no concern, since we're not planning to pass turns to the next player before the game ends anyway.
Fewer Sweepers - I've been very underwhelmed by All is Dust and Devastation Tide as of late for two reasons: (a) almost all games with this list end by turns 5-12, and a well-placed counterspell is often equally effective as a boardwipe (or, keeps us alive long enough that it doesn't matter); and (b) other decks in the meta are now running more creature removal than before, so there is less pressure to "solve" the problem ourselves (a side effect of this is A trend away from creature-focused / aggro strategies). I found these unnecessary, but take care in your own meta - remove at your own risk!
Continued CMC Reduction - Net, these changes remove 12 cmc from the deck - a significant reduction and one which helps to chain combos together. Onwards and up- I mean, downwards!
As a fellow Niv player, I'm continually thrown into head-scratch mode by the fact that both primers here on Sally use Dream Halls. Do y'all not play with a lot of other blue players (in particular) or players with lots of answers (in general)? Turning every single counter an opponent has into Force has, with my own limited testing, been friggin' terrible. I mean, yeah, when you land the Halls against a table of precon/noninteractive decks it's basically game-set-match, but is that really the metric by which the 15 millennia-old Izzet parun (praise be his beautiful name and frame) should be measured?
Wanted to start off by saying that I loved seeing how you developed this deck, even how you started it. When I developed my own Niv 1.0 deck(which I'll post eventually, so if you have time, your insight on my interpretations of this theme would be wonderful), I felt the same: Curiosity/Ophidian Eye/Mind over Matter/Tandem Lookout(everybody always forgets that guy, lol) just didn't strike me as 'fair'. Evolution went from 'draw and beats' all the way to its current incarnation of 'draw ALL the cards, and you have nothing to say!'.
As tuned as my deck is, your interpretations also help me look at stuff to put in for the funsies you seem to experience(I'm sure we could both swap stories).
Two suggestions that I have in my deck that are worth noting(one that may be bonkers for you to include, one not so much...). Apologies if these have been discussed earlier - I admit to some skimming in the previous pages: Spellskite - People run destruction and boost spells a lot, and having an on-demand Redirect can ruin their day instantly(pun intended). Seeing as you are running Vedalken Orrery as well, you just increased your flexibility. Maybe you can, but I just don't see a downside of having a 2 drop, Redirect, especially since it keeps resources free. Myojin of Seeing Winds - Now, stay with me on this(believe me, I balk at the CMC too, and I run it! lol). Read the benefit you get from casting it: the divinity counter. That's an immediate benefit right there. Barring counter shenanigans, popping that counter grants you 11 cards on average(Myojin himself plus the lands, for argument sake); that provides a lot of answers/card draw, and a lot of damage in short order. To be perfectly fair though, it's a rare card to use; I myself would only justify using it when I have multiple extra turns(Twincasted and Forked Beacon of Tomorrows, for instance) ready to go. But 'living on the edge' doesn't get much better than seeing this juicy big blue button just begging to be pushed...lol
As a fellow Niv player, I'm continually thrown into head-scratch mode by the fact that both primers here on Sally use Dream Halls. Do y'all not play with a lot of other blue players (in particular) or players with lots of answers (in general)? Turning every single counter an opponent has into Force has, with my own limited testing, been friggin' terrible. I mean, yeah, when you land the Halls against a table of precon/noninteractive decks it's basically game-set-match, but is that really the metric by which the 10 millennia-old Izzet parun (praise be his beautiful name and frame) should be measured?
Stepping back a bit, ultimately, how do we want to win? We know that to combo off we need to recycle our hand multiple times and play spells for cheap or free - there are unfortunately very few cards in Magic that enable this, and Dream Halls is one of them. It does give advantages to your opponents too, but that's what the rest of the deck is there for - establishing and protecting your wincon.
In other words, if you're having trouble with blue players, the solution (in my opinion) isn't to remove Dream Halls, it's to find other silver bullets to use against blue which lets you asymetrically abuse Dream Halls. Don't get rid of your most powerful win condition! You have a full deck and the benefit of timing (you get to choose when and how you play it) with which to tilt the balance into your favor. If your opponents can take advantage of your deck better than you can, it means there is a long way to go in improving the list.
Wanted to start off by saying that I loved seeing how you developed this deck, even how you started it. When I developed my own Niv 1.0 deck(which I'll post eventually, so if you have time, your insight on my interpretations of this theme would be wonderful), I felt the same: Curiosity/Ophidian Eye/Mind over Matter/Tandem Lookout(everybody always forgets that guy, lol) just didn't strike me as 'fair'. Evolution went from 'draw and beats' all the way to its current incarnation of 'draw ALL the cards, and you have nothing to say!'.
As tuned as my deck is, your interpretations also help me look at stuff to put in for the funsies you seem to experience(I'm sure we could both swap stories).
Two suggestions that I have in my deck that are worth noting(one that may be bonkers for you to include, one not so much...). Apologies if these have been discussed earlier - I admit to some skimming in the previous pages: Spellskite - People run destruction and boost spells a lot, and having an on-demand Redirect can ruin their day instantly(pun intended). Seeing as you are running Vedalken Orrery as well, you just increased your flexibility. Maybe you can, but I just don't see a downside of having a 2 drop, Redirect, especially since it keeps resources free. Myojin of Seeing Winds - Now, stay with me on this(believe me, I balk at the CMC too, and I run it! lol). Read the benefit you get from casting it: the divinity counter. That's an immediate benefit right there. Barring counter shenanigans, popping that counter grants you 11 cards on average(Myojin himself plus the lands, for argument sake); that provides a lot of answers/card draw, and a lot of damage in short order. To be perfectly fair though, it's a rare card to use; I myself would only justify using it when I have multiple extra turns(Twincasted and Forked Beacon of Tomorrows, for instance) ready to go. But 'living on the edge' doesn't get much better than seeing this juicy big blue button just begging to be pushed...lol
Thanks for the suggestions! I will play a few games in the coming weeks and take notes on the times a Spellskite would have saved my bacon. I've never tried it in this list before, and I'm not sure what to think of it yet (who knows, it could prove as useful as Stifle and Trickbind). The Myojin I would have to take more convincing on... for 10cmc it basically needs to win the game on the spot, because having one in-hand early game is an absolute tempo hoser. If Omniscience sticks at 10cmc it's basically auto-win (and it's the only card at that cmc in the whole list). Adding a second ultra-high CMC spell AND not having it end the game on the spot seems less than optimal, but perhaps you can convince me otherwise?
In other news - Disallow will be making an entrance (to no one's surprise), and Baral, Chief of Compliance will likely find a slot too (the only question is - how quickly he would eat removal). I'm travelling at the moment, but will nail things down a bit better once I return.
About Myojin...you are absolutely correct, which is why I put it as an off-chance card more than anything. It's fun when it hits, but once something better is available, it needs to go...case in point, between now and when I last posted, it's been replaced in my deck with *drum roll* Baral! However, Myojin CAN potentially end games(mostly one-on-one): as you say, it's a 10 CMC card, which usually means you SHOULD have around 10 permanents to start. Add Myojin, that's 11. Add Niv(assuming you're still going for the card draw damage) and that's 12. If Omniscience is also out, that's 13. Assuming you've been able to 'counter-protect' your other holdings, that can prove to be a hefty chunk of damage from one counter removal. BUT...again, it's a goofy card that you'll only see hit the field a handful of times, though when it DOES hit the field, it will be all the more memorable.
Spellskite is quite useful against burn decks, though it can be equally handy against ping types as well...say, a lightning bolt effect every round. Few things are also funnier than someone swinging with a creature pumped to the nines with buff spells, only to have all of those buff spells redirected to the Spellskite.
At any rate, but the time you read this, my own Niv deck should be up, so again...I welcome your insight into my own interpretations! Keep brewing!
Hi everyone, I've just finished a massive overhaul of the main post, including updated decklist and revised sections. It's a bit late, but headed in a great direction!
With this update, the list is faster and more potent than ever before. I'm experiencing even fewer "dud" starts, and the deck regularly goes lethal by ~T5-6 without appropriate answers from opponents (all this despite no 2- or 3-card infinite combos). Even when answered, the steam is never lost - it is able to eek out a win from seemingly any position.
Looking forward to hearing about your experiences and meta changes!
Solid changes to your decklist, from what I can see. A point I would make:
Mystic Confluence is nice to have. For 1 more, you get another option, AND you can stack them. That makes the tax counter actually feasible(even if you do it just twice), bouncing is nifty, and of course, drawing is a no-brainer with Niv. Not sure what you would toss out for it, but my vote would be to try it out.
Thanks! I will probably playtest Mystic Confluence in Reforge the Soul's spot... I've found it to be quite underwhelming recently and this would be a direct CMC swap. Will post back with results!
I put in archive over the other draw doubler. The 5 mana colourlessness of it is awesome, as you can get into play pretty easily and then it survives all is dust. Worth losing the extra card from the draw phase for ease and quickness of casting (and u can get it with fabricate).
I also run an additional bounce spell (evac) as my meta is very creature heavy, but overall its the same list. Great deck. It's the first time I have had fun (and the other players too) playing combo at my commander nights.
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Here are the updates to the decklist:
Not many changes in the last year or so, and what changes there are focus on smoothing the early-game and continuing combo chains. Mindmoil, though RIDICULOUSLY powerful, has caused unintended self-KO's much more frequently than desired. Paired with Thought Reflection, it means you can easily draw out your deck if you get into an Instant war (if only Thought Reflection's ability was elective and not mandatory...). I was always afraid to drop it because of this, and the deck already has a pretty easy time combo'ing out when the momentum gets moving. Day's Undoing replaces it as a Handcycler. Just look at this thing - it's ridiculous! It's basically Timetwister (well, almost). 3 cmc, shuffles everything up... and pairs great with instant-speed enablers.
Gamble was just that - a Gamble. Great in a pinch but most of the time I didn't want to cast it. Early it's not so great (the rest of the table can often stabilize the game if needed) and most other times, it risks throwing away key cards. This deck really wants to continuously cast spells and this made me afraid to do so. Similarly, Mystic Remora is a tabletop hero and hidden gem of a card, but it's just hurts the tempo too much (and directs attention to you early-on). It was hard cutting this one, but I feel it's for the best. Ponder and Preordain take these two slots.
Acquire is out for now - it's great finding an opponent's Gilded Lotus, and it's one of the very best cards in blue, but it just doesn't synergize with the rest of the deck very well. It's a fantastic card, but only if you get it when you hit 7-8 mana on the board. Any earlier and it's useless (forcing you to tap out and give up a turn), any later and it doesn't really synergize with what the rest of the deck is doing. For now, Evacuation is in. its0v3r9000 mentioned it in the thread, and I think it's a great solution to one of the deck's key weaknesses (swarm and creature-heavy games). This may eventually be replaced, but for now I'm liking it.
The last change sees Jace's Sanctum swapping in for Cunning Wish. The wish is arguably more powerful, but only if it's allowed to be used, and in my opinion it doesn't really fit the spirit of Commander. Jace's Sanctum is a perfect addition, giving us acceleration and enhanced top-decking abilities.
I'm trying to find the proper slot for Alhammarret's Archive, but alas, this has aluded me so far. Perhaps a counterspell should go? Let me know if any of you have recommendations.
Onwards and upwards, Niv-Mizzet players! I hope you're still having as much of a blast with this list as I am!
UR [PRIMER] Flash of the Firemind (Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind) RU
BG Death and Staxes: FireStorm4056's Competitive Meren Stax List GB
W Avacyn Angel of Hope W
R Akroma, Angel of (Your Opponent's) Fury R
R 99-Mountain Ashling R
Yep, this is the answer! Even though it sometimes exiles itself, the key is that when paired with a flash-enabler, Day's Undoing is more-or-less a Timetwister reprint. I actually PREFER having the drawback.... because it allows the card to be very aggressively costed, and we can flash to avoid the drawback anyway! In other words, I'd much rather have this card at 2U than a less-restrictive printing at 3U/3UU/4U.
He's strong, but my version of the list is tuned for spell-based handcycling. They provide an immediate effect (don't have to wait for summoning sickness), don't die to removal, and can be used multiple times per turn (when you are comboing and keep re-shuffling graveyard into library this is not uncommon). Next - the ability activation cost can't be paid using Dream Halls or Omniscience. Perhaps most importantly, the creature-based effects tend to be reusable, and therefore have a higher initial mana investment... something we can't afford when we're trying to hit as many spells as possible (Magus of the Wheel costs 3RR to match the 2R effect of Wheel of Fortune).
That said, there are many ways to build the deck! Many of these effects have creature-equivalents, most of which are also much cheaper than their sorcery equivalents... so, if you were to tune your list specifically for enabling and protecting creature-based effects, you could have a very powerful list, and one which is probably much less expensive than this one!
In other news - I'm currently toying around with the following changes:
+1 Alhammarret's Archive
+1 Dack Fayden
-1 Thought Reflection
-1 Time Warp
Alhammarret's Archive is currently in for Thought Reflection - we lose the initial draw each turn, but the lower CMC hump is actually a really huge deal (especially with counterspells in this deck). Not only does this come online earlier, but also interacts well with Dack Fayden and some of the recent draw-filtering additions to the list. Hitting the battlefield 1-2 turns earlier gives it plenty of time to catch up / surpass where we'd be with Thought Reflection
Time Warp was really hard to cut (it was between that and a counterspell), but I don't know that we need two extra-turn cards (especially if you're playing into counterspells or Swerve effects). Plus, Dack Fayden is simply incredible at 3 cmc. The goal here is not to combo with Niv-Mizzet, but rather to further smooth the early game (well, the whole game, really) and enable higher-quality card options (plus, stealing the occasional Sol Ring / Gilded Lotus). He also combos extremely well with the Top-Deck Toolbox discussed in the initial post. He's been in and out before, but that was a while ago - and I think this time he's here to stay!
I will, of course, update everyone when changes are solidified - thanks for tuning in!
UR [PRIMER] Flash of the Firemind (Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind) RU
BG Death and Staxes: FireStorm4056's Competitive Meren Stax List GB
W Avacyn Angel of Hope W
R Akroma, Angel of (Your Opponent's) Fury R
R 99-Mountain Ashling R
So, compared to the official decklist in the OP, I'm currently testing:
+1 Alhammarret's Archive
+1 Dack Fayden
-1 Elixir of Immortality
-1 Thought Reflection
UR [PRIMER] Flash of the Firemind (Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind) RU
BG Death and Staxes: FireStorm4056's Competitive Meren Stax List GB
W Avacyn Angel of Hope W
R Akroma, Angel of (Your Opponent's) Fury R
R 99-Mountain Ashling R
UR [PRIMER] Flash of the Firemind (Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind) RU
BG Death and Staxes: FireStorm4056's Competitive Meren Stax List GB
W Avacyn Angel of Hope W
R Akroma, Angel of (Your Opponent's) Fury R
R 99-Mountain Ashling R
http://mythicspoiler.com/kld/cards/fatefulshowdown.html
It's a yes?
Thanks for the question! Actually I'm not including it as of now. Here is my reasoning:
To compare and contrast Fateful Showdown with similar cards in the deck:
Winds of Change: Costs just R (1/4 the cmc) - you give up instant-speed and some damage, but the cost is extremely low
Tolarian Winds: In blue, only 1 color symbol, and only 2 cmc. No damage - but honestly, no biggie
Whirlpool Warrior: Gives you two uses for the same CMC as Fateful Showdown, and the second use combos with Consecrated Sphinx
Edit: I do want to quickly stress, however, that this card isn't out-of-place in Niv-Mizzet decks in general. This style of victory (drawing out sizeable portions of your deck + big burn spells like this) is quite strong, but it's a different archetype and is best when specifically built around. It just doesn't quite fit here, because our major advantage is low-CMC, extreme-efficiency spells - either on their own (acceleration/control in the early game), or chained together for a sudden, explosive win.
UR [PRIMER] Flash of the Firemind (Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind) RU
BG Death and Staxes: FireStorm4056's Competitive Meren Stax List GB
W Avacyn Angel of Hope W
R Akroma, Angel of (Your Opponent's) Fury R
R 99-Mountain Ashling R
It's more expensive than I'd like, but packs a lot of versatility. Not quite as broken as Cryptic Command, unfortunately, but still worth watching out for. I don't know where it would fit in the list... perhaps taking a slot from Dissipate or Forbid... but 4 cmc is a pretty steep price to pay, especially when you don't get two benefits like Cryptic does. I don't suspect this card will make the list but I'm keeping my eye on it.
UR [PRIMER] Flash of the Firemind (Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind) RU
BG Death and Staxes: FireStorm4056's Competitive Meren Stax List GB
W Avacyn Angel of Hope W
R Akroma, Angel of (Your Opponent's) Fury R
R 99-Mountain Ashling R
+1 Swan Song
-1 Merchant Scroll
I want to love Merchant Scroll, but two things kill it: (a) it can't find sorceries (most of our wheel effects), and (b) it's not an instant. Typically it finds a counterspell, which draws aggro and also telegraphs our hand a bit. It CAN find Mystical Tutor, but that still doesn't get other tools in-hand. So, I've put Swan Song in that place. At 1cmc it's extremely inexpensive and counters many of the biggest, nastiest spells, while also creating opportunities where opponents think we're too tapped out to respond.
Other cards I'm playing with but haven't quite found a place for. I like both, but not sure what to take out for them!
Insidious Will
Vandalblast
UR [PRIMER] Flash of the Firemind (Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind) RU
BG Death and Staxes: FireStorm4056's Competitive Meren Stax List GB
W Avacyn Angel of Hope W
R Akroma, Angel of (Your Opponent's) Fury R
R 99-Mountain Ashling R
Without checking older posts, have you decided against the following:
1. Memory Jar?
2. Jace, Vryn's Prodigy?
3. Bazaar of Baghdad (lol)?
Counterflux is there because I felt the deck needs to keep up its count of hard counters, and there aren't really any other options below 3cmc (they all come with strings attached, or conditions). It has versatility for the small % of scenarios it needs it, and otherwise, a 3cmc hard counter is just really useful. I've found the jump from 3 -> 4 (Insidious Will for example) is a really tough hurdle to clear if you're trying to play other things on your turn. The exception to this is Cryptic Command, because it gives you so many options while also letting you draw.
Before addressing the three cards you asked about, it's worth mentioning that, uninterrupted, the deck will quite reliably combo out on ~Turn 4-6 (without relying on infinite combos or otherwise). It only needs to reach 5 mana to win (Dream Halls) and in many cases only has mana rocks on the battlefield on the turns before it wins - then it suddenly drops a few permanents and chains Timetwister effects to kill everyone off. So, every choice in the deck must either: (a) Help the early game by providing immediate card advantage and/or tempo; (b) Assist in chaining the combo together for the victory; or (c) Protect our wincon (counterspells, and sometimes Shattering Spree). The three you listed aren't quick and/or cheap enough for (a) or (b) and don't apply to (c).
Good questions
UR [PRIMER] Flash of the Firemind (Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind) RU
BG Death and Staxes: FireStorm4056's Competitive Meren Stax List GB
W Avacyn Angel of Hope W
R Akroma, Angel of (Your Opponent's) Fury R
R 99-Mountain Ashling R
I don't know your current decklist, but seems like you absolutely require Niv-Mizzet in play and need to draw 40 cards per opponent to win? That's why I suggested those cards. The way you play, it seems like you need even more "pitch" counters. Why not run Misdirection to protect Niv-Mizzet? You might not run "infinite combos" but if comboing off means winning then it might as well be considered an infinite.
I find it difficult to believe competent opponents will allow you to fly under the radar. To me, having a weaker board state just means you're easier to attack and deal 40 to. It seems like you almost never have any blockers.
1. Memory Jar is basically another "deal with me or lose" card. If someone is going to destroy it, good on them. But if they don't... It appears that you run enough artifact mana to use it, even during the turn in which you're wheeling. Is saying Jar is only good with flash sorta like saying the same thing with Day's Undoing?
2. Jace, VP doesn't provide immediate impact, but I'm not sure every card in the 99 can be that way (the flash enablers come to mind). His payoff is quite strong. Combo'ing is never just a "one turn" thing. Even if you're chaining all of your spells in one turn, you're spending the entire early game setting that up. And since you're a combo deck, I don't see how looting doesn't help your goals whether or not you use your graveyard. He's also an early blocker and can flip to avoid the graveyard.
3. You might not use the graveyard currently, however, Bazaar and Jace VP work well with Thought Reflection and Al's Archive. And that's why I even suggested Bazaar because it'd be difficult to give up a land-drop to use it. Bazaar is generally impossible to run in a 35 land combo deck. But I figured your environment might allow it?
I love Thought Reflection and even though it's really only strong with Omniscience and Dream Halls powering it out, I don't think I'd ever cut it from decks I play. Since you're only using Niv-Mizzet, I don't think you can cut it.
I took apart my Rashmi deck. Looking to build Niv-Mizzet now. I plan to utilize the graveyard, since the "wheels" do include discard. Recoup and Mizzix's Mastery seem like very powerful tools. I'm also going to use Lightning Greaves + Magus of the Bazaar + Magus of the Jar + Magus of the Wheel.
Don't get me wrong, a Niv-Mizzet deck will never fly under the radar, but it is crucially important to make them think you're one or two turns behind where you really are or everyone will just kill you instead (as I mention below- this deck does go off in just one turn, even without going infinite). I don't want to suggest that we create a "weak" board state.... we still spend the first turns playing mana rocks and establishing a board presence as any other deck does. However, dropping the big bombs and combo pieces early (suggesting it's about to win on the following turn) gives good opponents time to identify this and prepare answers accordingly. Suggesting I'm about to win and then giving 3-4 competent players time to come after me usually means they either conspire to kill me immediately, or collectively overextend to set me irreparably far behind (with one of them inevitably coming out far ahead and winning shortly thereafter). It's not about looking "weak" so much as looking like you're a turn behind where you really are.
tl:dr Re: Counter-magic and dealing with opponents' creatures.... it's going to be different for everyone, and you'll need to make your own adjustments. That's the beauty of the format
You're correct, not many blockers in this list - mainly because they aren't needed in my playgroup (to prevent losing, that is) and thereby hurt the efficiency of the gameplan. Most of our players have moved away from fast-aggro creature strategies (there are enough wraths to dissuade that approach) and Kaalia-style aggro can be kept in check long enough with countermagic for us do our thing (not that chump blockers really help against her anyway). Of course, every list will need its own adjustments - but I'd probably dissuade against blockers anyway, I think removal or bounce is more flexible and a more efficient use of your mana in this type of deck (Mizzium Mortars, Chain Reaction, Wash Out, etc.)
Getting Niv-Mizzet OTB isn't really that that bad. Mana Drain into Niv-Mizzet + combo off is quite common, and Dream Halls gets him for free. Omniscience doesn't get you there directly, but with all the draw in this list, resolving it means you can usually find the mana rocks needed to hard-cast him. If all else fails you can play a flash enabler and then hard-cast him EOT later on, but these items are serious threats, so proceed with caution. Protecting him once he lands is going to be different for everyone. It's perfectly reasonable to include Misdirection in your list if you feel it's necessary! I tend to think the card is too narrow, because it's not that useful outside of protecting him (it often can't stop an opponent from comboing off first, preventing their fatties from landing, etc.) Misdirection is definitely worth considering if it solves the problems you encounter - but I also recommend taking a long, hard glance at Dispel, Intervene, and Turn Aside, because often hitting U is better for the gameplan than card disadvantage. Much of the best removal in the format is solved simply by not letting your opponents play it (AKA winning the turn you play Niv-Mizzet). Lightning Greaves and the like don't protect him from instants anyway (they can just Path to Exile in response to the equip activation). So, sorcery-speed removal is typically not an issue, and instant-speed removal must be solved either through counterspells, or by winning a turn before they think you're going to (because they're tapped out trying to likewise win the game). Speed and card advantage are crucial!
On going infinite- the decklist can easily be modified by swapping Curiosity and Ophidian Eye into two slots of your choice. I don't include them because they are just stale to me now... but also, they aren't useful without Niv-Mizzet, whereas going the non-infinite route, pretty much every card is still great card advantage (or a great answer) when your commander is still in the Command Zone. It's all personal preference
1. I'm not saying Memory Jar shouldn't be in anyone's list, just that I find it to be too expensive up-front for what it does in my list and playgroup. The real killer with Jar is that it can't be played for free off of Dream Halls because it doesn't have colors. This deck is already a tad short on colored spells, and wheeling into a Jar while tapped out means you're dead in the water. If it were 3UU I would probably include it in a heartbeat! But, at 5 I can't easily cast it early on, AND it's really difficult to play around while combo'ing (plus, it doesn't get any cheaper from Jace's Sanctum and Sapphire Medallion like the other wheel effects).
2. Combo'ing is almost always a one-turn thing with this deck. When it's not, it's usually because of a Time Warp or Temporal Manipulation, which lets us discard our hand and then recycle the now-massive graveyard with Timetwister and do it all over again (it's really important to chain turns this way against a larger table, otherwise you will just deck yourself). The deck will easily kill the whole table in one go, but only if pretty much every card in the list helps you chain the combo. There are some exceptions (like the flash enablers) but I've found that these are simply too useful to cut... looting doesn't give me rapid enough ROI to justify inclusion.
3. Great point! I'll have to think about Bazaar in combination with these... but, keep in mind again that typically this deck does win in just one turn, and Bazaar is seriously hurtful card disadvantage without a draw-doubler.
I really want to find a place for Thought Reflection but the 7 cmc is just sooooo painful in an early hand. With symmetric wheel effects, Alhammarret's Archive isn't the only doubler... Consecrated Sphinx is too Thought Reflection was here for ~5 years, but since cutting it I've never missed it and have been extremely pleased with the improved tempo of the deck... seeing it in an opening hand (or worse, a mulligan hand) really gimps an otherwise well-tuned opening, and there are enough ways to win without it. At 7cmc it's also difficult to protect, because you still need to keep another 1-3 sources untapped for counterspells. Maybe it will eventually come back, but thus far I'm happy without it - YMMV!
UR [PRIMER] Flash of the Firemind (Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind) RU
BG Death and Staxes: FireStorm4056's Competitive Meren Stax List GB
W Avacyn Angel of Hope W
R Akroma, Angel of (Your Opponent's) Fury R
R 99-Mountain Ashling R
I've really been overhauling the list in the past few months, the result of weekly games with a fantastic new-found playgroup in Boston. An update to the main post is coming soon - but here are the changes!
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Faithless Looting
1 Final Fortune
1 Frantic Search
1 High Tide
7 Island
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mind's Desire
1 Remand
1 Show and Tell
1 Stifle
1 Trickbind
1 All is Dust
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 City of Brass
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Devastation Tide
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Izzet Signet
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Sapphire Medallion
1 Shattering Spree
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Shivan Reef
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Tolaria West
The changes follow a few major themes:
UR [PRIMER] Flash of the Firemind (Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind) RU
BG Death and Staxes: FireStorm4056's Competitive Meren Stax List GB
W Avacyn Angel of Hope W
R Akroma, Angel of (Your Opponent's) Fury R
R 99-Mountain Ashling R
As tuned as my deck is, your interpretations also help me look at stuff to put in for the funsies you seem to experience(I'm sure we could both swap stories).
Two suggestions that I have in my deck that are worth noting(one that may be bonkers for you to include, one not so much...). Apologies if these have been discussed earlier - I admit to some skimming in the previous pages:
Spellskite - People run destruction and boost spells a lot, and having an on-demand Redirect can ruin their day instantly(pun intended). Seeing as you are running Vedalken Orrery as well, you just increased your flexibility. Maybe you can, but I just don't see a downside of having a 2 drop, Redirect, especially since it keeps resources free.
Myojin of Seeing Winds - Now, stay with me on this(believe me, I balk at the CMC too, and I run it! lol). Read the benefit you get from casting it: the divinity counter. That's an immediate benefit right there. Barring counter shenanigans, popping that counter grants you 11 cards on average(Myojin himself plus the lands, for argument sake); that provides a lot of answers/card draw, and a lot of damage in short order. To be perfectly fair though, it's a rare card to use; I myself would only justify using it when I have multiple extra turns(Twincasted and Forked Beacon of Tomorrows, for instance) ready to go. But 'living on the edge' doesn't get much better than seeing this juicy big blue button just begging to be pushed...lol
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
Stepping back a bit, ultimately, how do we want to win? We know that to combo off we need to recycle our hand multiple times and play spells for cheap or free - there are unfortunately very few cards in Magic that enable this, and Dream Halls is one of them. It does give advantages to your opponents too, but that's what the rest of the deck is there for - establishing and protecting your wincon.
In other words, if you're having trouble with blue players, the solution (in my opinion) isn't to remove Dream Halls, it's to find other silver bullets to use against blue which lets you asymetrically abuse Dream Halls. Don't get rid of your most powerful win condition! You have a full deck and the benefit of timing (you get to choose when and how you play it) with which to tilt the balance into your favor. If your opponents can take advantage of your deck better than you can, it means there is a long way to go in improving the list.
Thanks for the suggestions! I will play a few games in the coming weeks and take notes on the times a Spellskite would have saved my bacon. I've never tried it in this list before, and I'm not sure what to think of it yet (who knows, it could prove as useful as Stifle and Trickbind). The Myojin I would have to take more convincing on... for 10cmc it basically needs to win the game on the spot, because having one in-hand early game is an absolute tempo hoser. If Omniscience sticks at 10cmc it's basically auto-win (and it's the only card at that cmc in the whole list). Adding a second ultra-high CMC spell AND not having it end the game on the spot seems less than optimal, but perhaps you can convince me otherwise?
In other news - Disallow will be making an entrance (to no one's surprise), and Baral, Chief of Compliance will likely find a slot too (the only question is - how quickly he would eat removal). I'm travelling at the moment, but will nail things down a bit better once I return.
UR [PRIMER] Flash of the Firemind (Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind) RU
BG Death and Staxes: FireStorm4056's Competitive Meren Stax List GB
W Avacyn Angel of Hope W
R Akroma, Angel of (Your Opponent's) Fury R
R 99-Mountain Ashling R
Spellskite is quite useful against burn decks, though it can be equally handy against ping types as well...say, a lightning bolt effect every round. Few things are also funnier than someone swinging with a creature pumped to the nines with buff spells, only to have all of those buff spells redirected to the Spellskite.
At any rate, but the time you read this, my own Niv deck should be up, so again...I welcome your insight into my own interpretations! Keep brewing!
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
With this update, the list is faster and more potent than ever before. I'm experiencing even fewer "dud" starts, and the deck regularly goes lethal by ~T5-6 without appropriate answers from opponents (all this despite no 2- or 3-card infinite combos). Even when answered, the steam is never lost - it is able to eek out a win from seemingly any position.
Looking forward to hearing about your experiences and meta changes!
In other news, I'm on the path towards my 2nd Primer, this time for Meren of Clan Nel Toth. It is a hardcore, all-in stax/value build, designed for play against highly tuned decks in smaller playgroups (3-4) and meticulously tuned over the course of the last year or so. The thread is just getting off the ground, but if you are interested in learning more, check it out here: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/773522-death-and-staxes-firestorm4056s-meren-stax-list
UR [PRIMER] Flash of the Firemind (Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind) RU
BG Death and Staxes: FireStorm4056's Competitive Meren Stax List GB
W Avacyn Angel of Hope W
R Akroma, Angel of (Your Opponent's) Fury R
R 99-Mountain Ashling R
Solid changes to your decklist, from what I can see. A point I would make:
Mystic Confluence is nice to have. For 1 more, you get another option, AND you can stack them. That makes the tax counter actually feasible(even if you do it just twice), bouncing is nifty, and of course, drawing is a no-brainer with Niv. Not sure what you would toss out for it, but my vote would be to try it out.
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
UR [PRIMER] Flash of the Firemind (Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind) RU
BG Death and Staxes: FireStorm4056's Competitive Meren Stax List GB
W Avacyn Angel of Hope W
R Akroma, Angel of (Your Opponent's) Fury R
R 99-Mountain Ashling R