You needa pimp out a few of those lands. I understand that you're going for a "swamps matters", but a few youll be laughed at for not using
Cabal Coffers. Sacrificing one swamp spot for banana-mana is definately worth it. This should be an autoinclude in any MonoB.
Terrain Generator It's a personal choice. I love running it in my Mono B simply because of how much suicide-black draw it has, so I can ramp up fast with it.
Shizo, Death's Storehouse Comes in untapped, makes colored mana, and like rogues passage gives a middle finger to non-black non-artifact chump blockers.
Other cards to consider: Druidic Satchel Honestly I was skeptical on this one as well. But once you use it and hit a few lands with it, you'll see how good it is especially in a land-matters deck. This deck is hands down the best form of non-green ramp for commander. No matter what it hits, you get something.
Walking Atlas Nothing makes me smile than a 4-swamp hand with an atlas in it. Turn 3 Korlash who is still a 4/4. Between this and the generator, after using Necropotence or some other big draw spell, you just poop all the swamps on the board. It's great.
These exact lands were the ones I was looking at
In my initial testing, I sorely missed the ramp power of coffers.
Atlas, satchel, and generator will make a pretty nice core ramp package to get Korlash extra beefy.
Oh, and aside from Ambitions Cost/Ancient Craving, here's some good monoB draw:
Moonlight Bargain 5 at instant speed to see 5 cards, but only pay for what you need, so you don't have to discard down anyways.
Necrologia Similar to a one-time Necropotence, this card lets you pull a lot of cards out for pretty cheap. I normally look at my hand and just pay into it until I have 10 cards in hand. (ie: if I have 4 in hand I pay 6 into it, or whatever). Not quite as good as it could have been, but still decent, especially for a 25¢ card.
Skeletal Scrying I don't have one but it seems like it would be the bee's knees.
I fully agree with the spine. The ONLY two cards in magic (to my knowledge) valible to mono black for enchantment spot removal is the spine and Karn Liberated. At least for artifacts we have Gate to Phyrexia , one of my favorite black cards printed for both flavor and effect, and it's much less desirable counterpart, Phyrexian Tribute, which is great in decks that can take advantage of sacing creatures. The gate is an auto incluse, because even with no creatures you can throw Korlash under the bus to fix and emergency problem artifact. My favorite use of it is using it to throw Kokusho, the Evening Star into the grave, then use it to blow up Spine of Ish Sah. So many uses! The gate is, however, notoriously hard to find outside of the Internet, and runs about 10$.
I'd get another Karn for this deck, but a) noone in town has one, and b) they are up to $40. Stupid Modern tron. He's on the very long out to do list.
Gate to Phyrexia is an interesting option. My LGS actually has one in the case
As an aggro deck, I'd much rather use creatures for damage that I can equip a lash to over cards like Liliana's Caress. Sangromancer is evasive and could gain a ton of life. I'll want to pick up a copy of that guy. Words of Waste also seems like the type of discard option want, especially if I have a draw engine on line.
I hope to have an update on the deck list live tomorrow.
So I made a shopping list and hit up 2 of the local game shops. Super mega uber update time!!! I incorporated a lot of you guys suggestions, let me know what you guys think.
So the cards I added fell into a few categories: discard, evasion granting, draw, land ramp, destruction and strong beaters. What I removed where weak discard option, more restrictive removal, and creatures that were to small and didn't have a good effect. 22 total changes, so we have nearly 1/4 of the deck moving around.
You're gonna love the Atlas satchel and generator. The Atlas and generator get you miles ahead if you've got big beefy draws going. The satchel at first glance seems meh but you'll be beyond happy each time you flip a top decked land onto the board. Even a dud rewards with a 1/1 or a bit of life, which is good since black is suicidal as hell.
Moonlight bargain I fully agree with your complaint, but mono B should always have ways to access it's grave in my opinion. I'm a greedy black mage and would play it even as a 5cmc instant version of Promise of Power that took double the life. Most importantly, it also acts as a filter. If you really need to get to a sweeper or a spot removal or even a land (I'd hope at least one of the 5 cards is a land but I can't say it doesn't happen) and you jut really need to mill off 5 cards (probably keepin 1-2) on the way, just to have a higher chance of a topdeck is why it's gravy. The flexibility it offers is exactly what commander needs because card slots are of course limited. sign in blood is great for standard, and even good for early game edh decks, but it pales late or mid game to bargain or ambitions cost.
You are running Abyssal Persecutor without any sac outlets and with no way to kill it outside of your own instant speed removal. It seems in general you want to run 2 sac outlets minimum.
Also, you took out the self recursive guys like reassembling skeleton and Nether Traitor. Those guys could be exceptionally strong in this type of deck as recursive sword carriers.
You are running Abyssal Persecutor without any sac outlets and with no way to kill it outside of your own instant speed removal. It seems in general you want to run 2 sac outlets minimum.
Also, you took out the self recursive guys like reassembling skeleton and Nether Traitor. Those guys could be exceptionally strong in this type of deck as recursive sword carriers.
I don't think Reassembling Skeleton is nearly as strong as Nether Traitor. He's easier to recurse but no evasion and comes in tapped. The traitor comes in ready and swinging, but most of all he's unblockable by just about everything. Even just a Nightmare LashMakes him REALLY scary,
You're gonna love the Atlas satchel and generator. The Atlas and generator get you miles ahead if you've got big beefy draws going. The satchel at first glance seems meh but you'll be beyond happy each time you flip a top decked land onto the board. Even a dud rewards with a 1/1 or a bit of life, which is good since black is suicidal as hell.
Moonlight bargain I fully agree with your complaint, but mono B should always have ways to access it's grave in my opinion. I'm a greedy black mage and would play it even as a 5cmc instant version of Promise of Power that took double the life. Most importantly, it also acts as a filter. If you really need to get to a sweeper or a spot removal or even a land (I'd hope at least one of the 5 cards is a land but I can't say it doesn't happen) and you jut really need to mill off 5 cards (probably keepin 1-2) on the way, just to have a higher chance of a topdeck is why it's gravy. The flexibility it offers is exactly what commander needs because card slots are of course limited. sign in blood is great for standard, and even good for early game edh decks, but it pales late or mid game to bargain or ambitions cost.
Know what I mean?
Atlas, satchel, and generator should help me stay close to my gf's Azusa deck, especially if I keep killing Azusa, lol. Satchel is all win, especially since the land does not enter tapped. Will be nice once I track down coffers.
I have no issues with life payment, but 10 life for 5 cards hits me hard. Chainer is so focused on the GY that I want the bare minimal GY interactions I can get away with. Post for example will be great if/when I find a second copy.
I may have to steal the P3K Ambition's Cost from my Karador deck and give it a run.
You are running Abyssal Persecutor without any sac outlets and with no way to kill it outside of your own instant speed removal. It seems in general you want to run 2 sac outlets minimum.
Also, you took out the self recursive guys like reassembling skeleton and Nether Traitor. Those guys could be exceptionally strong in this type of deck as recursive sword carriers.
Abyssal Persecutor is a test. What I do know is that he hits like a truck. My LGS owner was raving about him.
I definitely need a sac outlet, I noticed that when I put the deck together. I'll add Dimir House Guard once I find a copy. I need to hunt down a few more sac outlets with evasion. Those would be ideal.
I really like the cuts and additions you've added. Let us know how it plays out.
Thanks, I'm definitely looking forward to getting this guy out for a test run. I've been wanting to build Korlash for some months now with spare black pieces I've had lying around.
I don't think Reassembling Skeleton is nearly as strong as Nether Traitor. He's easier to recurse but no evasion and comes in tapped. The traitor comes in ready and swinging, but most of all he's unblockable by just about everything. Even just a Nightmare LashMakes him REALLY scary,
I scrapped all the small 1/1 guys for now. Nether Traitor was the last one I cut and may make it back in eventually. I really need a few test games to see how it runs.
Having a few self recurring creatures is reallt powerful for mono black. I don't run voltron mono black but I see your reasons for cutting them. Paired with cards like Gate to Phyrexia, or one of my new favorites Trading Post the advantages they bring to the table are amazing. Nether traitor gets the biggest honorable mention because as I've discussed, he has shadow, making him a great sword holder.
I think your build as it is would run fine without them however. Without extra inclusions, they are somewhat un synergistic with the deck.
Having a few self recurring creatures is reallt powerful for mono black. I don't run voltron mono black but I see your reasons for cutting them. Paired with cards like Gate to Phyrexia, or one of my new favorites Trading Post the advantages they bring to the table are amazing. Nether traitor gets the biggest honorable mention because as I've discussed, he has shadow, making him a great sword holder.
I think your build as it is would run fine without them however. Without extra inclusions, they are somewhat un synergistic with the deck.
If I had any synergy at all, I'd consider them.. As I refine the list, I'm sure I'll find some excuse for nether Traitor.
A few thoughts I had talking with a friend about the deck:
Strata Scythe is effected by ALL swamps on the field. This means I severely need to get a copy of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth post haste. I can't wait to swing for 40 in one shot
I still need the goodness that is Cabal Coffers. Due to the swamps matter nature of the deck, I will be VERY choosy of any nonbasics after this. If its not game breaking, its probably not worth it.
I really want Drana in the deck. Looking over the list, Reaper from the Abyss and Harvester of Souls both are somewhat off of the deck theme and will probably be immediate places to look for changes unless someone can come up with a better idea. As long as I have mana, and I usually do, Drana is strictly superior to reaper. No idea yet what I'd swap for Harvester if i did. I'd like Dimir House guard, but noone in town has one. Phyrexian Obliterator is another card I may try some time. Sangromancer is an evasive option that can gain tons of life.
I'm on the fence with Hatred. I'm totally OK paying life, but it seems the card is much worse the more opponents I have.
Without Graveyard recursion in any meaningful sense, is Xiahou dun, the One-eyed worth a slot? He's essentially an unblockable one shot regrowth unless I would devote several slots to making him an engine (why not make him the commander at that point?)
A card my friend recommended after we played the other day was Temporal Extortion. Its a very strong game ending card and either halving life or taking an extra turn should make a difference in getting to 40 or 21. Is this as good as it looks for this deck? Choice cards always give you the worst option.
Strata Scythe counts names not types, unlike N. Lash and Lashwrithe. Reaper would probably be better served as Drana, plus she does have the potential to one-shot opponents late in the game.
On the hatred issue: if you run more than one lifelinker it may be worth considering. I'm debating on picking one up for my Vish Kal deck.
I want to like Temporal Extortion in EDH but outside of B/U or B/G you can't abuse it with recursion to the point where you could grind out opponents. XHD on the other hand should warrant a spot in this deck as an evasive beater with a relevant ability. Maybe cut Harvester for Living Death and keep XHD for the recursion loop and a way to rebuild your board quickly.
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For Lists, Click Here EDH: GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU. UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax RW: Gisela, Boros Control RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?! B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
I'd look to add both Xiahou dun and 2 or 3 recursion cards. You lose nothing by adding cards like Phyrexian reclamation and gain more long game reach. With that recursion and Xiahou dun, adding somehting like Temporal Extortion starts to make more sense.
Hatred should be saved for more competitive play. Denying one opponent a decent game in casual is not going to make you any friends. If you've got combo players in your group, I'd still use it though but focus them. They had it coming for them.
Temporal Extortion is awesome, expecially with Xiahou Dun. They may cough up 1/2 their life once, but twice it gets pricy. With a Wound Reflection you basically say "I'm taking an extra turn unless one of you want to leave. There's the door.". It's a very fun browbeat type card. I'd run it, because even at face value it puts you in a life advantage over someone else, and seeing as you're running voltron it does half the work for you.
PLEASE use Sword of Vengeance. It gives you all the stats you could want for Korlash! turn 5/6 8/6 Trample Vigilance Haste First Strike? Sign me up!
The first game the Arcanis player was being a jerk, countering my early stuff and then Time Spiraling to mess with my good hand after he was able to look at it. I got out Walking Atlas turn 2 and he helped me keep somewhat on pace with the Azusa player with ramp. I was able to sneak Lashwrithe in while the Arcanis player was tapped out and got a few attacks in, mainly eating up blockers. I drew into Shizo, Death's Storehouse, got Korlash online when the blue player was tapped out, and thanks to the Druidic Satchel I drew into, I was able to drop my 11th swamp and deal 22 commander unblockable to the Arcanis player. My gf on the next turn did Genesis wave for 9 getting 6 land making her landfall tokens go nuts and swung at me for a bunch we didn't bother to calculate. I had her next turn if not for the big genesis wave with 9 tokens out.
Game 2, the GA4 player got a slow start so it made life easier. I got walking Atlast online on turn 3 and dropped a Crypt ghast, making my life much easier. I started getting targeted by the Azusa player, but I was also gaining 4-6 life per turn from the crpty ghast. Once I emptied my hand thanks to crypt ghast, I was lucky to draw into Necropotence and get to refill my hand back up to 7. The GA4 player was sputtering, but starting to get a board presence, so I got Lashwrithe off of Demonic Tutor and took him out thanks to shadow from Dauthi Trapper (that card is every bit as good as bobthefunny claimed). The Azusa player countered with Acidic Slime on Lashwrithe and dropped Elderscale Wurm to buy herself some time and put me on a 1 turn clock swinging with her army. I'd drew Sorin Markov but he was useless without removing elderscale, so I used Beseech the Queen[c/] to get Murder, killed elderscale, played Soring dropping her to 10 and finished her off with an again shadowed Korlash.
All in all, I was very pleased with the way the deck functioned. Walking Atlas showed up both games and proved to be a big difference maker. I was actually surprised how useful extort in crypt ghast was in this deck, making a big difference in me winning/losing with its lifegain. I'd definitely have used Necropotence differently without it. Lashwrithe is one of the big champions of the deck. On its own its basically Korlash #2 and attacked to Korlash, it lets you 1 shot quite easily. I didn't exactly intend to go for Korlash kills, but it worked out that he was the best option most of the time last night. An 8/8 or 11/11 unblockable just hits you like a mac truck and he gets better the longer the game goes on.
I didn't draw much of the discard package, but I did mind twist the Azusa's hand away game 1 to help keep her board state from getting and worse. Upgrading to Mind Twist was a good call. I'd definitely like to see how the discard package plays out in future games. I may have too much discard, but I'll need testing to tell.
Hatred should be saved for more competitive play. Denying one opponent a decent game in casual is not going to make you any friends. If you've got combo players in your group, I'd still use it though but focus them. They had it coming for them.
Temporal Extortion is awesome, expecially with Xiahou Dun. They may cough up 1/2 their life once, but twice it gets pricy. With a Wound Reflection you basically say "I'm taking an extra turn unless one of you want to leave. There's the door.". It's a very fun browbeat type card. I'd run it, because even at face value it puts you in a life advantage over someone else, and seeing as you're running voltron it does half the work for you.
PLEASE use Sword of Vengeance. It gives you all the stats you could want for Korlash! turn 5/6 8/6 Trample Vigilance Haste First Strike? Sign me up!
Yeah, I'll probably pass on Hatred. Having 11 swamps out and swinging with Korlash equipped with lashwrithe is a just plain cool way to win. Hatred on turn 4-5 would definitely draw some grumbles. I may find a copy incase I ever was to try Korlash in a competitive 1v1 setting, but I'm just not a fan of one player twiddling thumbs while everyone else has fun.
Temporal Extortion basically works out to Time Warp or half of a Sorin Markov on one player for BBBB. If I find a copy, I'll definitely try it out. Sorin has proved his weight in gold in the 2 testing sessions so far and extra turns are always yummy...now finding one as the 3 local shops don't have a copy.
Sword of Akroma is cool for sure, but what do I swap it for? I feel like I'm close to a critical mass on equipment already. Would it be a good swap for Lightning Graves as a haste enabler? Shroud isn't quite as good when you play with other equipment AND can regenerate.
Sword of Akroma is cool for sure, but what do I swap it for? I feel like I'm close to a critical mass on equipment already. Would it be a good swap for Lightning Graves as a haste enabler? Shroud isn't quite as good when you play with other equipment AND can regenerate.
With the new additions of the Atlas, and satchel (and once you get your terrain generator you'll be set for sure), you find yourself having a bit more mana to work with. The Sword of Vengeance is highly underestimated in my opinion. The Haste is honestly just gravy on it, but the synergy of trample, first strike, and vigilance is huge.
Korlash is already big, so the chances of him killing something on hit is high, but first strike protects him from deathtouch without the need for regenerating him. Vigilance means you have a BIG ASS blocker, which is very important. And lastly, Trample acts as evasion. An 11 Korlash will not be stopped by much of anything, and even if he is, chances are that A: It's going to die from first strike damage before even taking damage and B: In a near-worst-case scenario, at least 5 damage is going to get through.
So look at SoV as less of a haste engine and more into a" turn korlash into a demigod" type deal. It also gives +2/0, which is moot but still nice. It's a 99¢ rare that pulls it's weight greatly.
With the new additions of the Atlas, and satchel (and once you get your terrain generator you'll be set for sure), you find yourself having a bit more mana to work with. The Sword of Vengeance is highly underestimated in my opinion. The Haste is honestly just gravy on it, but the synergy of trample, first strike, and vigilance is huge.
Korlash is already big, so the chances of him killing something on hit is high, but first strike protects him from deathtouch without the need for regenerating him. Vigilance means you have a BIG ASS blocker, which is very important. And lastly, Trample acts as evasion. An 11 Korlash will not be stopped by much of anything, and even if he is, chances are that A: It's going to die from first strike damage before even taking damage and B: In a near-worst-case scenario, at least 5 damage is going to get through.
So look at SoV as less of a haste engine and more into a" turn korlash into a demigod" type deal. It also gives +2/0, which is moot but still nice. It's a 99¢ rare that pulls it's weight greatly.
Swords of X and Y are obviously stronger, buy I'd still incluse vengeance also, because it's almost designed for big vanilla creatures. It's one of those cards you wouldn't expect to be so good unless you try it, kinda like the satchel.
After playing several games with it, a swap of Sword of Light and Shadow and Sword of War and Peace would be an upgrade, but only a minimal one. Not something I'll look at until I get the rest of the list lined out.
The Sword of Vengence has haste which makes it a different animal than Sword of X and Y. They each have a different role and operate differently. The swords of X and Y give a combo of evasion and utility, whole SoV makes you offensively and defensively stronger.
I've seen a guy with both equipped before and it was nuts, probably better than an additional SoXaY.
After playing several games with it, a swap of Sword of Light and Shadow and Sword of War and Peace would be an upgrade, but only a minimal one. Not something I'll look at until I get the rest of the list lined out.
The Sword of Vengence has haste which makes it a different animal than Sword of X and Y. They each have a different role and operate differently. The swords of X and Y give a combo of evasion and utility, whole SoV makes you offensively and defensively stronger.
I've seen a guy with both equipped before and it was nuts, probably better than an additional SoXaY.
Phyrexian Obliterator is unblockable unless your opponent has a death wish. However if your opponent has theft and copy effects he is a MAJOR liability. It depends on your meta IMO.
After thinking about, I will probably pass on Phyrexian Obliterator. There are a bunch of unblockable-ish creatures that hurt me much less if they are stolen. I really need to look into more ETB and value guys. I'll have to do some pursuing when I have time.
One thing that did come apparent in my testing over the weekend is that 3 edicts are way too many and I wished they were straight spot removal. I need to swap at least 2 of these for instant speed targeted removal. I'm running out of non Doom blade options though. What other instant speed tech can kill black critters and well most every thing.
For Lists, Click Here EDH: GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU. UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax RW: Gisela, Boros Control RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?! B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
So I actually beat an Edric deck 1v1 with the mighty Korlash, lol!!! I was able to keep Edric off the table early with the instant speed removal to slow his draw down. I then got out Words of Waste along with Graveborn Muse and Phyrexian Arena and just refused to let him have a hand to play counters. His Beastmaster's Ascension was one counter from going off and ending the game, but I drew into Spine of Ish Sah and killed it. Once I had my mana set up, I tutored for Lashwrithe, gave Korlash shadow and got my 21 through.
So yeah Words of Waste is Awesome. Kicking out those counters and time warps gave me the time to set up the voltron kill.
Victim of the Night is excellent removal, but it's a meta call. If you've got any of those that are recurrent in your group, which of them all I'd say Zombies are pretty popular, I'd avoid it, otherwise go ahead, its great 2CMC removal.
1.Murder: it's 3CMC, but it does hit anything.
2.Devour in Shadow It's 2CMC which is great, but hurts.
3.Murderous Spoils Mana costly, but when you do it on a voltron player it really shines
Restrictive Removal:
1.Ashes to Ashes 5life 3mana to EXILE 2 creatures. Sorcery speed, but the 2-for-1 value is unmatched.
2.Go for the Throat 2Mana and hits ALMOST anything.
3.Snuff Out It's free?
4.Dismember Wont kill everything but it is a turn 1 kill spell.
5.Reckless SpiteIt's not as good as Ashes to Ashes, but it is instant speed, making it a solid slot
6.Vendetta 1CMC doomblade, can't complain
7.Tragic Slip Still one of my favorites, even if it does require setup.
8.Doom Blade Nothing to say here.
RWU Nom Nom Numot: The Hungry Devastator
GUB Damia's BUG-ifact Parade: all artifacts, all the time
GWG Trostani, Selesnya's Voice of Madness
GUG Edric, weenie master of DOOM
BRB Olivia Voldaren, Your creatures = MINE!
They are on 'the list'. The 1st shop I went to didn't have them, but I'll track them down
These exact lands were the ones I was looking at
In my initial testing, I sorely missed the ramp power of coffers.
Atlas, satchel, and generator will make a pretty nice core ramp package to get Korlash extra beefy.
I like Moonlight Bargain much better in a graveyard based decks where the discard option adds value. As a pure draw card, its 10 life for 5 cards
I haven't tried Necrologia, but it seems like a solid draw option. I may have to look for a copy.
I'd get another Karn for this deck, but a) noone in town has one, and b) they are up to $40. Stupid Modern tron. He's on the very long out to do list.
Gate to Phyrexia is an interesting option. My LGS actually has one in the case
As an aggro deck, I'd much rather use creatures for damage that I can equip a lash to over cards like Liliana's Caress. Sangromancer is evasive and could gain a ton of life. I'll want to pick up a copy of that guy. Words of Waste also seems like the type of discard option want, especially if I have a draw engine on line.
I hope to have an update on the deck list live tomorrow.
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
So the cards I added fell into a few categories: discard, evasion granting, draw, land ramp, destruction and strong beaters. What I removed where weak discard option, more restrictive removal, and creatures that were to small and didn't have a good effect. 22 total changes, so we have nearly 1/4 of the deck moving around.
In:
Reiver Demon, Abyssal Persecutor, Stronghold Overseer, Junk Diver, Strata Scythe, Rend Flesh, Diabolic Edict, Spine of Ish Sah, Phyrexian Arena, Geth's Grimoire, Terrain Generator, Liliana's Shade, Druidic Satchel, Walking Atlas, Mind Twist, Mind Sludge, Mind Shatter, Honden of Night's Reach, Words of Waste, Dauthi Embrace, Dauthi Trapper, Rogue's Passage, Shizo, Death's Storehouse
Out:
Nether Traitor, Dauthi Slayer, Shriekmaw, Reassembling Skeleton, Wei Scout, Vampire Nighthawk, Dark Hatchling, Doom Blade, Snuff Out, Tendrils of Corruption, Despise, Duress, Horrifying Revelation, Distress, Psychic Miasma, Mind Rot, Painful Quandary, Basilisk Collar, Explorer's Scope, Nihil Spellbomb, Explorer's Scope, 3x Swamp
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
Moonlight bargain I fully agree with your complaint, but mono B should always have ways to access it's grave in my opinion. I'm a greedy black mage and would play it even as a 5cmc instant version of Promise of Power that took double the life. Most importantly, it also acts as a filter. If you really need to get to a sweeper or a spot removal or even a land (I'd hope at least one of the 5 cards is a land but I can't say it doesn't happen) and you jut really need to mill off 5 cards (probably keepin 1-2) on the way, just to have a higher chance of a topdeck is why it's gravy. The flexibility it offers is exactly what commander needs because card slots are of course limited. sign in blood is great for standard, and even good for early game edh decks, but it pales late or mid game to bargain or ambitions cost.
Know what I mean?
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
You are running Abyssal Persecutor without any sac outlets and with no way to kill it outside of your own instant speed removal. It seems in general you want to run 2 sac outlets minimum.
Also, you took out the self recursive guys like reassembling skeleton and Nether Traitor. Those guys could be exceptionally strong in this type of deck as recursive sword carriers.
RWU Nom Nom Numot: The Hungry Devastator
GUB Damia's BUG-ifact Parade: all artifacts, all the time
GWG Trostani, Selesnya's Voice of Madness
GUG Edric, weenie master of DOOM
BRB Olivia Voldaren, Your creatures = MINE!
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
I don't think Reassembling Skeleton is nearly as strong as Nether Traitor. He's easier to recurse but no evasion and comes in tapped. The traitor comes in ready and swinging, but most of all he's unblockable by just about everything. Even just a Nightmare LashMakes him REALLY scary,
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Atlas, satchel, and generator should help me stay close to my gf's Azusa deck, especially if I keep killing Azusa, lol. Satchel is all win, especially since the land does not enter tapped. Will be nice once I track down coffers.
I have no issues with life payment, but 10 life for 5 cards hits me hard. Chainer is so focused on the GY that I want the bare minimal GY interactions I can get away with. Post for example will be great if/when I find a second copy.
I may have to steal the P3K Ambition's Cost from my Karador deck and give it a run.
Abyssal Persecutor is a test. What I do know is that he hits like a truck. My LGS owner was raving about him.
I definitely need a sac outlet, I noticed that when I put the deck together. I'll add Dimir House Guard once I find a copy. I need to hunt down a few more sac outlets with evasion. Those would be ideal.
Thanks, I'm definitely looking forward to getting this guy out for a test run. I've been wanting to build Korlash for some months now with spare black pieces I've had lying around.
I scrapped all the small 1/1 guys for now. Nether Traitor was the last one I cut and may make it back in eventually. I really need a few test games to see how it runs.
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
I think your build as it is would run fine without them however. Without extra inclusions, they are somewhat un synergistic with the deck.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
If I had any synergy at all, I'd consider them.. As I refine the list, I'm sure I'll find some excuse for nether Traitor.
A few thoughts I had talking with a friend about the deck:
Strata Scythe is effected by ALL swamps on the field. This means I severely need to get a copy of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth post haste. I can't wait to swing for 40 in one shot
I still need the goodness that is Cabal Coffers. Due to the swamps matter nature of the deck, I will be VERY choosy of any nonbasics after this. If its not game breaking, its probably not worth it.
I really want Drana in the deck. Looking over the list, Reaper from the Abyss and Harvester of Souls both are somewhat off of the deck theme and will probably be immediate places to look for changes unless someone can come up with a better idea. As long as I have mana, and I usually do, Drana is strictly superior to reaper. No idea yet what I'd swap for Harvester if i did. I'd like Dimir House guard, but noone in town has one. Phyrexian Obliterator is another card I may try some time. Sangromancer is an evasive option that can gain tons of life.
I'm on the fence with Hatred. I'm totally OK paying life, but it seems the card is much worse the more opponents I have.
Without Graveyard recursion in any meaningful sense, is Xiahou dun, the One-eyed worth a slot? He's essentially an unblockable one shot regrowth unless I would devote several slots to making him an engine (why not make him the commander at that point?)
A card my friend recommended after we played the other day was Temporal Extortion. Its a very strong game ending card and either halving life or taking an extra turn should make a difference in getting to 40 or 21. Is this as good as it looks for this deck? Choice cards always give you the worst option.
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
On the hatred issue: if you run more than one lifelinker it may be worth considering. I'm debating on picking one up for my Vish Kal deck.
I want to like Temporal Extortion in EDH but outside of B/U or B/G you can't abuse it with recursion to the point where you could grind out opponents. XHD on the other hand should warrant a spot in this deck as an evasive beater with a relevant ability. Maybe cut Harvester for Living Death and keep XHD for the recursion loop and a way to rebuild your board quickly.
For Lists, Click Here
EDH:
GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU.
UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat
BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation
UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery
RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven
UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron
BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax
RW: Gisela, Boros Control
RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck
RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?!
B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed
R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
RWU Nom Nom Numot: The Hungry Devastator
GUB Damia's BUG-ifact Parade: all artifacts, all the time
GWG Trostani, Selesnya's Voice of Madness
GUG Edric, weenie master of DOOM
BRB Olivia Voldaren, Your creatures = MINE!
Temporal Extortion is awesome, expecially with Xiahou Dun. They may cough up 1/2 their life once, but twice it gets pricy. With a Wound Reflection you basically say "I'm taking an extra turn unless one of you want to leave. There's the door.". It's a very fun browbeat type card. I'd run it, because even at face value it puts you in a life advantage over someone else, and seeing as you're running voltron it does half the work for you.
PLEASE use Sword of Vengeance. It gives you all the stats you could want for Korlash! turn 5/6 8/6 Trample Vigilance Haste First Strike? Sign me up!
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
The first game the Arcanis player was being a jerk, countering my early stuff and then Time Spiraling to mess with my good hand after he was able to look at it. I got out Walking Atlas turn 2 and he helped me keep somewhat on pace with the Azusa player with ramp. I was able to sneak Lashwrithe in while the Arcanis player was tapped out and got a few attacks in, mainly eating up blockers. I drew into Shizo, Death's Storehouse, got Korlash online when the blue player was tapped out, and thanks to the Druidic Satchel I drew into, I was able to drop my 11th swamp and deal 22 commander unblockable to the Arcanis player. My gf on the next turn did Genesis wave for 9 getting 6 land making her landfall tokens go nuts and swung at me for a bunch we didn't bother to calculate. I had her next turn if not for the big genesis wave with 9 tokens out.
Game 2, the GA4 player got a slow start so it made life easier. I got walking Atlast online on turn 3 and dropped a Crypt ghast, making my life much easier. I started getting targeted by the Azusa player, but I was also gaining 4-6 life per turn from the crpty ghast. Once I emptied my hand thanks to crypt ghast, I was lucky to draw into Necropotence and get to refill my hand back up to 7. The GA4 player was sputtering, but starting to get a board presence, so I got Lashwrithe off of Demonic Tutor and took him out thanks to shadow from Dauthi Trapper (that card is every bit as good as bobthefunny claimed). The Azusa player countered with Acidic Slime on Lashwrithe and dropped Elderscale Wurm to buy herself some time and put me on a 1 turn clock swinging with her army. I'd drew Sorin Markov but he was useless without removing elderscale, so I used Beseech the Queen[c/] to get Murder, killed elderscale, played Soring dropping her to 10 and finished her off with an again shadowed Korlash.
All in all, I was very pleased with the way the deck functioned. Walking Atlas showed up both games and proved to be a big difference maker. I was actually surprised how useful extort in crypt ghast was in this deck, making a big difference in me winning/losing with its lifegain. I'd definitely have used Necropotence differently without it. Lashwrithe is one of the big champions of the deck. On its own its basically Korlash #2 and attacked to Korlash, it lets you 1 shot quite easily. I didn't exactly intend to go for Korlash kills, but it worked out that he was the best option most of the time last night. An 8/8 or 11/11 unblockable just hits you like a mac truck and he gets better the longer the game goes on.
I didn't draw much of the discard package, but I did mind twist the Azusa's hand away game 1 to help keep her board state from getting and worse. Upgrading to Mind Twist was a good call. I'd definitely like to see how the discard package plays out in future games. I may have too much discard, but I'll need testing to tell.
Yeah, I'll probably pass on Hatred. Having 11 swamps out and swinging with Korlash equipped with lashwrithe is a just plain cool way to win. Hatred on turn 4-5 would definitely draw some grumbles. I may find a copy incase I ever was to try Korlash in a competitive 1v1 setting, but I'm just not a fan of one player twiddling thumbs while everyone else has fun.
Temporal Extortion basically works out to Time Warp or half of a Sorin Markov on one player for BBBB. If I find a copy, I'll definitely try it out. Sorin has proved his weight in gold in the 2 testing sessions so far and extra turns are always yummy...now finding one as the 3 local shops don't have a copy.
Sword of Akroma is cool for sure, but what do I swap it for? I feel like I'm close to a critical mass on equipment already. Would it be a good swap for Lightning Graves as a haste enabler? Shroud isn't quite as good when you play with other equipment AND can regenerate.
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
At worst, you should switch Lightning Greaves for swiftfoot boots just so shroud doesn't mess up your equipment plan. Sword of Vengeance looks like a good alternative as well if you have the mana to run it. Would Akroma's Memorial be to high CMC wise here?
RWU Nom Nom Numot: The Hungry Devastator
GUB Damia's BUG-ifact Parade: all artifacts, all the time
GWG Trostani, Selesnya's Voice of Madness
GUG Edric, weenie master of DOOM
BRB Olivia Voldaren, Your creatures = MINE!
Korlash is already big, so the chances of him killing something on hit is high, but first strike protects him from deathtouch without the need for regenerating him. Vigilance means you have a BIG ASS blocker, which is very important. And lastly, Trample acts as evasion. An 11 Korlash will not be stopped by much of anything, and even if he is, chances are that A: It's going to die from first strike damage before even taking damage and B: In a near-worst-case scenario, at least 5 damage is going to get through.
So look at SoV as less of a haste engine and more into a" turn korlash into a demigod" type deal. It also gives +2/0, which is moot but still nice. It's a 99¢ rare that pulls it's weight greatly.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
He has Terrain generator already, but your point is still valid.
Would a sword such as Sword of Light and Shadow be a better play than Sword of Vengeance? For that matter, with the amount of discard you have, wouldn't it be better than Sword of War and Peace.
RWU Nom Nom Numot: The Hungry Devastator
GUB Damia's BUG-ifact Parade: all artifacts, all the time
GWG Trostani, Selesnya's Voice of Madness
GUG Edric, weenie master of DOOM
BRB Olivia Voldaren, Your creatures = MINE!
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
After playing several games with it, a swap of Sword of Light and Shadow and Sword of War and Peace would be an upgrade, but only a minimal one. Not something I'll look at until I get the rest of the list lined out.
The Sword of Vengence has haste which makes it a different animal than Sword of X and Y. They each have a different role and operate differently. The swords of X and Y give a combo of evasion and utility, whole SoV makes you offensively and defensively stronger.
I've seen a guy with both equipped before and it was nuts, probably better than an additional SoXaY.
What's the general consensus on Phyrexian Obliterator in this deck?
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
Phyrexian Obliterator is unblockable unless your opponent has a death wish. However if your opponent has theft and copy effects he is a MAJOR liability. It depends on your meta IMO.
RWU Nom Nom Numot: The Hungry Devastator
GUB Damia's BUG-ifact Parade: all artifacts, all the time
GWG Trostani, Selesnya's Voice of Madness
GUG Edric, weenie master of DOOM
BRB Olivia Voldaren, Your creatures = MINE!
One thing that did come apparent in my testing over the weekend is that 3 edicts are way too many and I wished they were straight spot removal. I need to swap at least 2 of these for instant speed targeted removal. I'm running out of non Doom blade options though. What other instant speed tech can kill black critters and well most every thing.
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
For Lists, Click Here
EDH:
GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU.
UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat
BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation
UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery
RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven
UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron
BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax
RW: Gisela, Boros Control
RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck
RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?!
B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed
R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
So yeah Words of Waste is Awesome. Kicking out those counters and time warps gave me the time to set up the voltron kill.
I need to try Dismember. It kills Azusa, Kaalia, GA4, Trostani, Arcanis, Edric, Damia, etc...many of the commanders I see in my playgroup.
Victim of Night I may stick in on a trial basis. I do see zombies and vampires, but not too many. 2 CMC is always nice.
Yeah unfortunately our removal all has some drawback. Can't have everything.
Devout in Shadow looks like a solid option. I'll have to pick up a copy.
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
Devour in Shadow and it's doomblade equivelant Vendetta are personal favorites of mine.
The best removal for ANYTHING in Mono-B is:
1.Murder: it's 3CMC, but it does hit anything.
2.Devour in Shadow It's 2CMC which is great, but hurts.
3.Murderous Spoils Mana costly, but when you do it on a voltron player it really shines
Restrictive Removal:
1.Ashes to Ashes 5life 3mana to EXILE 2 creatures. Sorcery speed, but the 2-for-1 value is unmatched.
2.Go for the Throat 2Mana and hits ALMOST anything.
3.Snuff Out It's free?
4.Dismember Wont kill everything but it is a turn 1 kill spell.
5.Reckless SpiteIt's not as good as Ashes to Ashes, but it is instant speed, making it a solid slot
6.Vendetta 1CMC doomblade, can't complain
7.Tragic Slip Still one of my favorites, even if it does require setup.
8.Doom Blade Nothing to say here.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR