Quote from Kay-hinAeTainted Aether takes the place of the Sculpting Steel. Instead of copying Sharuum and using the Legend rule to get her into the graveyard, with this one you play her, then sacrifice her with the enter the battlefield trigger on the stack. Use the trigger to bring her back and sacrifice her again. Repeat infinitely until you win the game.
So that work the same way than sculpting steel, except you can finish the loop with copying an extra mana or other artefact like with sculpting steel.
It's good, but i think not enough, or we have to add Disciple of the vault to the deck wich is not so great, you know 1/1 creature don't stay that long.
I feel the deck very very resilient to wrath effect because of this choice.
But hey well good budget combo !
For RtR : Chromatic lantern seem huge for me, i have some mana base trouble sometimes and i use a better than yours (i think) with fetchland's and Bi-land/rav-land add.
I have test a Mishra's Workshop and that doesn't do enough except when i have a magister on turn 2... and it's not what we except about that deck so she moves away.
Quote from Wildfire393This does not actually work.
When Sharuum enters the battlefield, you have to put her ability on the stack (and the Aether's ability). This means you have to choose a target for it. THEN you sacrifice her, THEN you return the targeted thing to play.
The only reason Sculpting Steel works is because, whenever something happens, this is the order of events:
1) Check state-based effects (like lethal damage, legend rule, etc)
2) Stack triggers that trigger from that event (and from state-based effects)
3) active player gets priority.
So before you stack the trigger and choose your target, both Sharuum and the Steel are put into the yard due to SBE - legend rule. Then you stack the trigger, targeting Sharuum, then you resolve the trigger, returning her to play (returning the Steel, etc etc)
"You heard it here folks:
Anyone who disagrees with "Jack from NC" is an idiot."-The Dead Weatherman
Quote from Jack_from_NCI apologize severely for the lack of updates recently.
Quote from Jostin123
My attitude when playing this deck is that I will get hit with an average of 3 board-wipes a game (both due to people being intimidated, and by splash damage for other threats, and yes, the game can be that hostile).
Quote from BEDERNDERNits not that we (well, i) am intimidated. it is just usually the right play to bang on the sharuum player.
Quote from Jostin123
My attitude when playing this deck is that I will get hit with an average of 3 board-wipes a game (both due to people being intimidated, and by splash damage for other threats, and yes, the game can be that hostile). Is there a reason you forgo using Roar of Reclamation in addition to Open the Vaults. In my experience, the overlap is more effective than the targeted and use of traditional reanimation spells.I have not seen any mention of the use of Ensnaring Bridge in any of the posts in this thread. Ensnaring Bridge has been very clutch in preventing the table from alpha-striking me and has been super important in hosing titans, which can get out of hand. Since you are using thopter foundry, and can manage your hand well enough to allow the 1/1s to attack naturally on your turn as a kill condition, what are your reasons for not running it? Is it due to mono-blue tez as a main kill or is it something else?
Mycosynth Lattice has been a pretty awesome "do nothing" card in my deck, much like Thopter Assemply has been in yours. I've used it in conjunction with many cards to great benefit, and it lets me card everything without concern for color screw. Are you aware of the synergies between Mycosynth Lattice and the many parts of your list (especially and Tezzeret, AoB and his ultimate) and is there a reason you don't use that as part of your 99.Due to dealing with Teeg, I prefer burst card draw over card filtering with card draw slots like Thirst for Knowledge, Memory Jar, Windfall, Timetwister, and Compulsive Research. What has been the overall experiences that make the deeper digging worth more than cards in hand. In my experience, I need cards in hand in order to recover easier from the eventual wipe, and to hit my lands in a timely fashion.
I prefer to play threats than answers, which is why my list forgoes counterspells. I noticed that your lone counterspell is really a tutor more than a counterspell. Do you feel your list needs counterspells at all? Why or why not?What are you feelings on the Ravnica bounce-lands? My list wants to play as few tap-lands as possible, but my list is nearly 50/50 with mana sources (land and artifact) and non-mana spells. They were very helpful before Sundering Titan got banned, as it allowed me to play Titan with no repercussion (my artifacts took care of mana issues from Blood moon or Back to Basics. I run 35 lands and 14-15 non-land mana sources in my list, but aside from rebuying Bojuka Bog, I'm not sure they are still warrented
Quote from M3mentoMoriHey!
I just want to start out by complimenting you on this thread. I visited the 'which EDH general should I play' thread and got suggested to me everyone's favourite metal cat. I liked the deck you listed, and now she's my first ever general! (Minus a haphazard Wydwyn, the Biting Gale deck I have.)
I made the deck you have listed on the OP in Cockatrice, and played a few games. I've found that everyone and their sister targets me with removal and creatures. I try and deal with them, but my only defense seems to be gritting my teeth and taking it, Maze of Ith-ing the worst offender, or the occasional Salvaging Station-Executioner's Capsule pseudo-sweep. How do you usually deal with that kind of stuff?
Somewhat related to my above point is the lack of interaction I seem to be having with others. Most times, I'm just casting mana rocks, trying to dig for Scroll Rack, Artificer's Intuition, and Top so I can dig and filter more. Part of it is my avoidance of just going off with the Ordeal-Steel/Metamorph-Sharuum combo (which, I admit, is one of the only combos I can organize relatively quickly). The solution I came up with is shifting to a control-centric build, while still keeping as much combo-ness I can from this version. What kind of cards would you suggest for that? You're already discussing Ensnaring Bridge, and I'm making notes to add that to consideration as I type.
I apologize if I'm asking any unnecessary questions. I'm more used to tweaking standard and modern decks than building my own, but I'm working on my deck-building skills!
Quote from cryogen »I hope for a you ban.
Quote from M3mentoMori
EDIT: Spine is probably better for removing more things, for all the reasons already stated. Even the exile clause from Duplicant is easily emulated, though having it packaged with the effect (and outright ignoring indestructibility, which is definitely a plus!) for one less mana makes Duplicant the better choice in a fight for a single slot, imho. It's cheaper, has a better removal effect, and comes with a body for blocks or beats, or simply an artifact to draw removal or to sacrifice to our reshape effects.
Quote from M3mentoMoriYeah. It's mostly a win-more card, to me. At 12 mana, you can fire off probably every combo in the deck.
Made my list. It's very rough, and only has one game played (Against Glissa the Traitor. Got Foundry-Sword combo out, then drew into Transmute Artifact and fetched Time Sieve for the win.) but here it is!
Jack_from_NC's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Commander:1 Sharuum the HegemonArtifacts:1 Sculpting Steel1 Temple Bell1 Sword of the Meek1 Thopter Foundry1 Grim Monolith1 Chrome Mox1 Mox Diamond1 Mox Opal1 Mana Vault1 Mana Crypt1 Sol Ring1 Sensei's Divining Top1 Scroll Rack1 Ensnaring Bridge1 Karn, Silver Golem1 Mycosynth Lattice1 Dispeller's Capsule1 Executioner's Capsule1 Salvaging Station1 Oblivion Stone1 Trading Post1 Time Sieve1 Crucible of Worlds1 Nihil Spellbomb1 Tormod's Crypt1 Pithing Needle1 Expedition Map1 Darksteel Ingot1 Voltaic Key1 Mindslaver1 Talisman of Dominance1 Talisman of Progress1 Lotus Bloom1 Lotus Petal1 Courier's Capsule1 MeekstoneCreatures:1 Phyrexian Metamorph1 Duplicant1 Trinket Mage1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind1 Magister Sphinx1 Thopter AssemblyEnchantments:1 Rhystic Study1 Mind Over Matter1 Artificer's IntuitionPlaneswalkers:1 Tezzeret the Seeker1 Tezzeret, Agent of BolasInstants:1 Enlightened Tutor1 Mystical Tutor1 Vampiric Tutor1 Brainstorm1 Intuition1 Muddle the Mixture1 Swords to Plowshares1 Forbidden Alchemy1 Necrologia1 Tainted Pact1 Ad Nauseam1 Thirst for Knowledge1 Fact or Fiction1 ImpulseSorceries:1 Bitter Ordeal1 Ponder1 Demonic Tutor1 Windfall1 Reshape1 Transmute Artifact1 Austere Command1 VindicateLands:1 Academy Ruins1 Darksteel Citadel1 Vault of Whispers1 Seat of the Synod1 Ancient Den1 Ancient Tomb1 Inkmoth Nexus1 Scalding Tarn1 Arid Mesa1 Marsh Flats1 Watery Grave1 Godless Shrine1 Hallowed Fountain1 Strip Mine1 Wasteland1 Tolaria West1 Maze of Ith1 Reflecting Pool1 City of Brass1 Glimmervoid1 Command Tower1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth1 Plains1 Swamp1 Island1 Buried Ruin1 Gemstone Mine1 Creeping Tar Pit1 Arcane Sanctum1 Reliquary Tower
How's it look?
-1 Chrome Mox
+1 Cephalid Coliseum
+1 Gitaxian Probe
+1 Blue Sun's Zenith
My hand is usually full of stuff I want to cast, not have exiled. If it put into the grave, I could deal with it, but not exiling.
Mindslaver is a test to see if I ever run into a situation where I want to slaverlock someone.
Coliseum is for even more card draw, and another way to get combo pieces into the 'yard, and probe is... probe. 'free' peek and cantrip. I'm considering going an instant speed X-cost draw spell, like Sphinx's Revelation or Blue Sun's Zenith. They both draw cards, but one gives life and one gives re-usability. I'm leaning towards USZ at the moment. Being able to cast for 3-6 early game, then refuel even later for 8+ is pretty good. Went USZ instead of Probe.
Also, Ad Nauseam is beast. Cast it in every game I played today (only 2, but still counting! :D), netted at least 6 cards for only 6-10 life. Our average mana cost is so low we barely feel it, since most of our stuff is lands or 0-3 cost artifacts, and if you do hit something that is 5+, it's usually something you want.
Quote from Jack_from_NCHaving answers is nice.
Hrm. I'm wondering if we shouldn't just cut Mindslaver. It's not a bad card, and certainly has a home in most lists-but I'd like to keep duplicant if at all possible. Slaver adds nothing to the deck and takes a ton of mana to fire off, with Slaver-lock via our recovery suite costing even more.
I've cut Mindslaver before and didn't miss it. I think it's time to do that again.
Quote from Jostin123I understand the want to cut Mindlsaver. Mindslaver takes up a slot in my list, and is a what I define as a 90/10 card. 90% of the time, you don't need it, but the 10% of the time you do, it breaks games wide open. In my playgroup, there are often times that things need to be answered IMMEDIATELY and quite often, players don'thave the resource to deal with it right then and there. That's when Mindslaver becomes golden. I will admit, I haven't Slaver-locked a player in almost two years, never had to. But when you are facing down Karn the Redeemed or 100+ damage on board and no-one has outs, you can use the offender's deck to dismantle himself, and that's why that 10% keeps it in the deck. No card opens up as many uninterrupted lines of play as Mindslaver, and it allows you to do things you could never do otherwise (Take player A's turn and then target them with your FOF, draw-lock and opponent with their own Necropotence, tap out blockers for lethal alpha strikes, peek and burn tutors, etc). At the worst, it is an uber-expansive Fog. There is no card in Magic that mimics the activated effect, or the resulting game repercussions like Mindslaver, and for that, I keep it in the deck.
Quote from Jack_from_NCA few things:
1. Why courier's capsule? Why not run Aether Spellbomb instead, which can interact with the board state, be salvaging-stationed/Artificer's Intuitioned, AND bounce your own guys/opponent's dudes in a pinch? Theoretically, it could pull off more work with less mana...and net you more cards. I bring this up because compared to other options, Courier's Capsule is sub-par. You're netting 2 cards for 4 mana. Deep Analysis, Compulsive Research would be arguably better.
2. Necrologia and Ad Naseum-I've tested both extensively. If you've got to run one, run Necrologia and cut AN-AN is more suited for decks that have an EXTREMELY low CMC curve-we're talking at least an 80% chance of turning something over with a CMC of 3 or less. As cool as AN is, you'll die to it more often than you'll win with it in Sharuum. Necrologia is much more suited here. I'd also consider Compulsive Research and friends here again.
3. How is Tainted Pact working out for you? I've seen some Sharuum players swear by it, but I've never felt the need for another tutor, especially one that exiles.
If you want some notation on AN, I just got done building a Grimgrin list that uses it to win:
Quote from Jack_from_NCSee, that's precisely the reason I'm cutting it from my list though.
Mindslaver successfully fires off about ten percent of my plays as well. And when it does, it has the potential to completely turn games around-but there have been times when destroying a single permanent would have done the trick. A majority of the time I've casted Slaver, it's been in the form of bait-bait for counters, removal and random mass-artifact destruction. Players here have an abnormal fear of the card. Even if I can't crack it then, they assume I'm about to do something devious.
Which brings me to the other reason Slaver is getting cut from my list. It's incredibly politically offensive. I'm trying to keep the table reputation of the deck as low as possible. Spine accomplishes this while providing a more versatile problem-solving suite-people grossly underestimate it because it's played far less.
But we'll see how things go. I've cut slaver before and returned it-chances are more than likely it'll be back for all the reasons you just listed.