It's been a while but I am glad to say that I have built an update to my engine-based Sharuum list that feels very cohesive and has been doing better than anticipated.
I was really struggling to shave parts of the engine list to make space for testing of the new toys that the deck could possibly use, which is why instead of tweaking it, I decided to do a complete rebuild of it. There are a lot of changes from the previous build so I am going to go through my decision process for this.
I don't know if people are aware of this, but manabases are the thing that usually make or break my want to pilot decks. I hate bad manabases, and I hate mana bases that are unpurposeful, and don;t provide meaningful cohesion for decklists. One of the reason I was drawn to Sharuum and it's original 75/25 ratios for colored cards to non-colored cards has been to take advantage of those ratios and cram as many useful spell lands into the list while still having good mana. that's also the reason why I tried not to deviate from the 50/50 ratio of artifacts to non-artifacts. To truly rebuild the list, I had to break my personal rules for these ratios, as so many new printings just don't allow the deck to continue to fall within those guidelines. The purpose of those guidelines was to keep the deck sufficiently colorless so the inclusion of so many utility lands wold not prevent the deck from being able to play its spells in a timely fashion. It is also a big reason why I chose to play signets over the talismans: it further allowed the deck to play with so many colorless lands. The signets also had a lot of play with the filter lands. It's how the deck could have only 1 land that produced colors in play and still make Esper mana at will.
Since I am running so many more colored spells, one big concession is that I would have to eliminate a sizeable chunk of utility lands and abandon the mana base that has supported the deck for so long. This makes using fetches and basics much more reasonable, and if that's the direction I'm taking the deck, I need the fetches and basics to do more than just color fix and thin. Running a healthy amount of basics allows me to run the check duals, which further allows me to play Mystic Sanctuary and enables me to fill a healthy number of plains to run Emeria Shepherd as a powerful recursion piece. These fetches also allow me to run Scaretiller and Wayfarer's Bauble as pieces that ramp lands, so I don't have to be as dependent on artifact ramp to get to my big mana spells. In particular, Scaretiller can allow the deck lines of play to Strip a land light opponent out of the game. The inclusion of Ghost Quarter over Wasteland is to allow me to search up basics in certain match-ups while still curbing the more broken lands out of other decks. It will take more time to see if this specific permutation of fetches and targets will need to be tuned further, but so far, it's been getting the job done.
Scaretiller: I spoke about the utility of this card. It really shines when paired with Clock of Omens or other tap / untap effects.
Eldrazi Displacer: It's a great blink effect and a colorless non-artifact, which in many game states is a plus.
Emry, Lurker of the Loch: I've really been impressed with this card. She's been a great compliment to Salvaging Station and Sharuum. She's been great at recurring artifacts that S.Station can't touch but you don't necessarily want to cast Sharuum to retrieve. She also brings so much more value to an unpaired Thopter Foundry (one without Sword of The Meek. She allows you to be able to play an inside-out recursion game with your artifacts. Emry really allows you to grind out games by making your graveyard a toolbox, not just a potentially game ending threat, when appropriate. Being able to play Noxious Gearhulk, sac it, and recast, is just amazing. Now, replace Gearhulk with Metamorph in your mind, and you start to see the upper echelon of what's possible. She's a great blink target for the deck alongside Sharuum and Scaretiller, and she almost always costs U. She's just fantastic.
Urza, Lord high Artificer: Yes, this card is bonkers, and he's been discussed in many threads including this one, so I won't rehash all the arguments. One thing that I will say is that he is particularly synergistic with many of the deck's slots, including some of the cogs. Lion's Eye Diamond, Aether Spellbomb, and Voyager's Staff are all examples of cards that can be tapped for mana and still used for their effects, which is nothing to sneeze at. The inclusion of Urza has pushed me to include both Clock of Omens and Unwinding Clock in this latest list, as you can now be tapped out and still make infinite thopters, or activate Artificer's Intuition.
Emeria Shepherd: She's a powerful 7 drop that is a beast of a recursion piece, and worth modifying the manabase to accommodate and use.
Wayfarer's Bauble: A new cog for the deck now that the manabase can accommodate it.
Echo of Eons: My previous Sharuum experiment showed that there was value in running wheels in the deck. Wheels are very powerful with Smothering Tithe and this one allows me to shuffle twister back into my library indefinitely. In a pinch, it can also serve as a one-time Elixir of Immortality when paired with Entomb or Intuition. Allowed me to fuse a card draw slot with the Elixir slot.
Ghirrapur Orrey: This is a card slot that I have to apologize for guys. I've always wanted to slot this into the deck and was never able to make it work, and this card is a perfect example of why you sometimes need to walk away from a problem to find your answers.
I have always had two fears about running this card. The first was not being able to empty my hand with the smattering of high cmc cards I can draw into. The second was that my opponents possibly taking advantage of my cards to pull ahead. I was always judging this card in isolation, and never really through through the lines of play that would make it viable. Playing fetch lands and strip effects raises the bard of utility on this, as Crucible allows you to use them multiple times a turn. However, Artificer's intuition can also let you tutor up your artifact lands to ramp, when your hand is land light. However, the big reason to run this is the Ancestral Recall on your upkeep. There is one card that we already run to great effect that would allow us to do this.
This was a huge oversight on my part, and quite honestly, I should have seen this much sooner. During the rebuild, there was a list of cards that I knew I wanted to try to run in the deck. On this short list was Smothering Tithe, Urza, Mystic Sanctuary, Scaretiller, Cyclonic Rift, and Teferi's Response. I was identifying my lines with Urza and looking at cards to cut to accommodate my wanted inclusions. Skullclamp was a card that I felt was under-performing as it required one too many pieces to get going for a draw engine. I was going over my play lines with Urza when I saw that L.E.D. could be tapped for U and still be popped to pitch your hand. That's when I went back to my binder to reread the card the card and smacked myself for not seeing it sooner. L.E.D. guarantees that you empty your hand to draw the 3 cards, and Salvaging Station, Emry, Eldrazi Displacer and Tawnos's Coffin (the latter two through Sharuum) guarantee that you can keep it going. This was a huge oversight on my part, and for that I apologize, as it most likely has stifled the furtherance and development of tech for Sharuum.
Bolas's Citadel: This card is just nuts and can help you build a dominant board state from nothing. You may not be able to go as deep as K'rrik or other Bolas Citadel decks, but you can easily build an insurmountable boardstate for 10 to 20 life. This card is as close to an auto-include as it gets. Also, the second ability is not to be underestimated, as you can just kill a table for blinking Magister's Sphinx a few times.
Cyclonic Rift / Teferi's Protection: Includes I wanted to make to keep up with the competitive arms race. I especially like Rift and it's applications with our wheel effects.
Mirokoku, Center of the Sea & Geir-Reach Sanitarium: I am running these cards as ways to force Smothering Tithe triggers to happen, and to clear cards off your library for Top. The fact Geir-Reach pitches Sharuum targets is a bonus.
I've gotten about 5 sessions of games in and I have to say the deck feels great. The deck does mulligan differently, as it the curve is different and the lines of play have changed, but it feels very solid.
I’m also not entirely sure how I feel about Scaretiller in the list. Seems like it’s a dud without more tap enablers.
Also, never been entirely sold on Unwinding Clock, but I suppose Eldrazi Displacer and Urza give the list some more to do with mana on opponents’ turns. However, I can still foresee some unwanted interactions with Tawnos’s Coffin. Have you experienced that?
Going to give Ghirapur Orrery a try. I’ve always avoided it since it can help my opponents, but I find I often have no cards in hand very early in the game, so I can certainly see its value. I also run Bazaar of Baghdad in my list, so I can manage the size of my hand fairly well. The extra land drop will definitely come in handy with citadel on the board, so it’s probably worth a try.
I used to run Eldrazi Displacer, but I ended up cutting it because I had cut back on ETB creatures. However, I added Emry and Urza also, so the value may be there again. May try it again at some point.
Any love for Shimmer Dragon? It seems that it would improve Scaretiller, and provide a source of instant-speed card draw that’s hard to deal with. Plus it can help win through combat if you have to go that direction. Haven’t playtested it myself; just wondering if anyone else has.
My apologies for the delayed response. Between the holidays, the kids getting sick one after the other, and the end-of the year project analysis reports that came up, I haven’t had time to answer. My wife also got a new keyboard which I am now growing to loathe. Last night I was typing my response in the dark and was almost done with my whole response at 1:30am, when I went to delete a line of text and my computer cut off. Apparently, there is a power button right on the keyboard one key away from the delete and print screen buttons. I was super pissed. I don’t really understand why it’s there as this is not a wireless keyboard. I was super pissed, but I’m trying this again.
Stefouch asked some great questions, and I’ll try to answer them as best as I can.
One thing that I needed to wrap my head around is how the changes to the mana producers affected the pacing for lines of play and consistency of plays. In this update, I cut out the 2 cmc mana rocks, and that small change precipitated a few needs:
And increased reliance on draw spells to hit my mana sources consistently and often.
Increased reliance on draw spells to further my board progression
The need to shave down my CMC wherever reasonable possible
Time Spiralis a great card, but one that is very expensive to cast. While it’s insane with a Smothering Tithe in play, the fact that it costs 6 mana, is a huge downside. In addition, when you can cast it, you may not always have the 6 lands when you cast it early for it to be mana neutral or mana positive. FOF and Whispering Madness are just cheaper which is the biggest reason they make the cut. The reason I run Echo of Eons over it is a little more nuanced.
One of the big issues with this deck was consolidating play effects and play lines with an ever shrinking number of utility slots to make space of the engine cards and bombs that feed their synergies. I had cut Elixir of Immortality from the list, but still wanted to keep the ability to restock my library to protect my yard from growing too large. Echo doesn’t exile itself, so I can loop it with Timetwister to continuously restock my library if needed. I can also sacrifice this line in a pinch if I need immediate card draw through Entomb. It’s also a decent card to use to manipulate Intuition piles for your opponent. Those lines have not yet shown up, but it will take more games to test the fringes and see if my concerns are warranted.
This change was also precipitated by changes to my mana base along with the inclusion of Emeria Sheppard and Mystic Sanctuary. In the past, being able to run 14-15 mana rocks allowed me to power past and ignore cards like Blood Moon and Back to Basics because I could consistently shift the responsibility of casting my spells and color fixing onto my mana artifacts. Now that the 2 drop artifacts are gone, the list is increasingly vulnerable to such effects. The reason I am using Prismatic Vista over a non-allied blue fetch is to ensure I can hit those basics with more consistency if needed.
I play both storm and Shops in Vintage, and in my UB Park Petition deck, Prismatic Vista has become the second best fetch after Polluted Delta, especially when playing in metas hostile to lands (metagames with tons of Shop decks). I’ve seen its value from both sides of the table, and so I’ve used that experience in making this decision. Sure, Misty Rainforest or Scalding Tarn are better at fetching Mystic Sanctuary but my bigger priority is making sure I avoid getting blown out to land hate cards.
No symmetrical effects is ever 100% safe to play. Cards like Static Orb, Anvil of Bogarden and Horn of Greed are not very commonly played cards for that reason. However, the decks that can break the symmetry of these cards can gain huge value from doing so. Ghirrapur Orrey is such a card. In playing games, I have found that this card nets me a free Ancestral Recall on my upkeep roughly every other turn after turn 3 when played fairly (this is a rough average). Some of our draw spells (those which force discards or shuffle the high CMCs back in), Artificer’s Intuition and Crucible of Worlds help get you to that stat (another reason the fetches are awesome for this list). However, when you get an LED onto the table, it becomes rediculous.
Mystic Forge is a broken card. It’s not difficult to sculpt a scenario where you draw your library, which is the ceiling for the card. What I find is, for you to want it in your deck, you want it to generate a ton of value (at least 3-4 cards a turn just playing off the top of the library). To do this, you need a ton of colorless cards (at least 50-60%), a ton of cheap artifacts (preferably mana rocks), a low land count and the ability for your cost reducers to matter without Mystic Forge on the table. While Sharuum plays a ton of artifacts, we also play a ton of colored spells. Engine Sharuum doesn’t check off all those boxes, and constructing it to do so really waters down the strengths of the deck. Getting mana for a Magister’s Sphinx after you just cast a Noxious Gearhulk off the top is one example of the issues you can run into when playing Mystic Forge in a 3 color deck. It just plays better in an Arcuum or Eldrazi deck. Wishclaw Talisman is a good card, and plays well with all the untap effects in the deck. I found that when I played it, I wanted to run Voltaic Keys over the mass untappers, and even considered Homeward Path (for it's inside-out lines with Karn, Silver Golem. We have so many good options for tutors that when making the final cuts, this just didn’t make the list. It was close. The fact that this is an artifact, means we can activate and blink it / sac it for value with the ability on the stack. The single black in the cost and colorless activation works really well for us. It interacts very well with Emry. It justs slants us towards running it in a package with 3 or 4 other cards to ensure the tutoring remains 1 sided, and there wasn’t enough space to do so. People who play K’rrick should really consider playing this card. It doesn’t fit in every deck, but its better positioned for ours than most others.
Yes and yes. Tezzeret is a very good card, but it’s slow an increasingly becoming a niche card. It is a 5 mana tutor for 4 drops or less. What gave it a higher ceiling was when Tez able to sit behind an Ensnaring Bridge (with no hand), an army of meekly armed thopters or a fleet ofSphinx of the Steel Winds so you could just accumulate increasingly more value over more and more turns. It is a card that demands a decompressed game from our deck to become better, as there is no 4 > cmc artifact in this deck that ends the game when tutored up. Artifact removal options have never been better or more efficient than they are now, and there are more way to grow wide than ever before. Tezzeret is increasingly becoming too slow to answer the demands of the boardstates I’m seeing games led to, as commanders like Yarok, Urza and K’rrik are putting more pressure, faster, to close games out. I’m finding I’d rather tutor for the right card now than string together synergies over multiple turns. One of the big cuts that diminished his role was the loss of Rings of Brighthearth, as the card demanded other cards be on the table to really extract max value from it. Not having it around makes all the planeswalkers less impactful.
(6) Is only one boardwipe effect (Cyclonic Rift) enough?
So far, yes. Back when I wrote my philosophy on deckbuilding (which can be found at post #117 here. Specifically, I talked about my philosophy of playing threats over answers. Through all these years, I still adhere to that doctrine and it’s served me well. I am currently running a very high density of “must answer” threats which are immediately impactful and cannot all be answered by the same angles. Also, on post #121 on that same page I detailed my analysis of answers. Specifically, I wrote:
Also, when analyzing answers, one needs to take a step back and realize that your deck should be able to answer problematic board cards in the following manner.
Attack it
Block it
Destroy it
Remove it
Bounce it
Steal it
Counter it
Remove its owner from the game
Offer your opponents the opportunity and incentive to take options 1-8
If your deck can't do most (if not all) of the above things in a timely fashion, the problem doesn't lie with the answers you're running, it lies in your list.
I find this still holds true and you have more ways to do this, and with increased efficiency. Urza ensures [Thopter/Sword] combo ends the game for the table if you get to untap, as opposed to picking off a opponents one at a time. You still have Bitter Ordeal as a game ending line. You still have the plan C of the Air Force beatdown plan. The newest kill line involves Magister Sphinx and Bolas’s Citadel. Both cards have incestuous synergies with each other.
Bolas’s Citadel can free-cast Magister’s Sphix.
Magister’s Sphinx can reset your life total to 10 to “gain” life to keep free casting spells with Citadel.
Bolas’s Citadel can drain all opponents for 10 life.
Magister’s Sphinx can reset opoonent life totals to 10.
Bolas’s Citadel can free-cast all the engines that blink Sphinx
Citadel and aforementioned engines quickly enable 10 non-land permanents to hit the table.
It is very possible to flat-out remove players from the game out of no-where with a Citadel, the rest of your turn and 15-25 life in payment with no other board state to assist in doing so. Once you do, you still have the infrastructure to “off” the next player on the table and in your graveyard. The move away from Voltaic Key to more untap engines was purposely done to assist in building, rebuilding your board and blinking the appropriate cards by your next turn to do it again.
(7) Scaretiller... The only tap effect in the list is Clock of Omens. I don't really understand this choice.
Scaretiller is a choice I’ve become increasingly comfortable with playing with and I feel is a severely underrated card. It serves as a more narrowly tailored Solemn Simulacrum, but where it’s ramp is more in line with the needs of the deck, with additional possible lines of play to exploit. While it’s true that the only cards that can tap Scaretiller are Clock and Urza, the card can also just attack. There are many times where it is more than okay to trade Scaretiller in combat to buyback a Strip Mine and color screw your opponent or deal with a Gaea’s Cradle or Cabal Coffers that’s one untap from putting the game out of reach for the table. If the games are going long, chipping in for 1 to buyback an Inventor’s Fair or Buried Ruin activation for the 2nd time in a turn can be very relevant and sometimes game-breaking.
PS: I think you confused multiple times Teferi's Protection and Teferi's Response in your text.
Thanks man. I found one error and fixed it.
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I’m also not entirely sure how I feel about Scaretiller in the list. Seems like it’s a dud without more tap enablers.
Also, never been entirely sold on Unwinding Clock, but I suppose Eldrazi Displacer and Urza give the list some more to do with mana on opponents’ turns. However, I can still foresee some unwanted interactions with Tawnos’s Coffin. Have you experienced that?
I must also say that Emry has felt like a Lieutenant in this deck. The more I play her, the better she gets. Someone pointed out that she sucks with Lotus Bloom and Mox Tantalite, and you are absolutely correct in that, but she feels like the perfect compliment to both Salvaging Station and Sharuum herself.
Going to give Ghirapur Orrery a try. I’ve always avoided it since it can help my opponents, but I find I often have no cards in hand very early in the game, so I can certainly see its value. I also run Bazaar of Baghdad in my list, so I can manage the size of my hand fairly well. The extra land drop will definitely come in handy with citadel on the board, so it’s probably worth a try.
I used to run Eldrazi Displacer, but I ended up cutting it because I had cut back on ETB creatures. However, I added Emry and Urza also, so the value may be there again. May try it again at some point.
Any love for Shimmer Dragon? It seems that it would improve Scaretiller, and provide a source of instant-speed card draw that’s hard to deal with. Plus it can help win through combat if you have to go that direction. Haven’t playtested it myself; just wondering if anyone else has.
Scaretiller really has been growing on me. It's not flashy but it puts in more work than you would think.
As for the untap artifacts and Tawnos's Coffin, the biggest issue would be not keeping a blanket effect creature off the table (think Elesh Norn) with both in play. I don't mind my artifacts coming into play again if the mana rocks are also untapping to be able to reblink if necessary. Also, Tawnos's coffin returns the creature to play tappped, so getting extra uses can set me up to attack past blockers and hit lifetotals or planeswalkers, much like Myr Battlesphere used to before the damage errata. It's very corner case but if it does become a concern, I can just sacrifice or kill that piece myself.
I'm dying to bring back Bazaar into the list but cant find that last cut to do so 1 more cut. With so few rocks, I dont want to cut any more genuine mana sources to do so. The list is super tight.
Lastly, I think Shimmer Dragon is cool, but it's too expensive to not be an artifact. Emeria Shepperd was really tough to accommodate, but it was worth it as it plugs into the recursion engines very well. It's a great card when your ahead or when you're trying to break parity, but it sucks when you're playing from behind. I feel it is a good thought experiment but ultimately the theory wasn't good enough for me to warrant testing.
I wanted to give an update on my play experiences with the new list and give some thoughts on a very unassuming gems we got in Theros.
I noticed when I got more games in that the deck was less explosive than I liked it to be. When the game gets to the endgame, it's even more resilient than before, but there have been much fewer explosive hands than before. I've been tweaking the deck to increase the number of cogs in the list, which has been paying off. I've added Lotus Petal back into the list and made a few other swaps, and it's been paying off. I'm also trying Dance of the Manse. 8ts been okay so far. Recursion at X=4 has not been as explosive as 4WW for all your artifacts, but I still want to play a few more games with it to see if the one-sided aspect of it is still worth it.
Second, I wanted to revisit bringing back an infinite back into the list that we had previously cut.
Soul-Guide Lantern is probably the best upgrade we have to the Tornod's crypt slot in the deck. It exiles all opponents graveyards. The next best option we have is nihil spellbomb because it draws cards, if we get into grindy gamestates.
Altar of the Brood looks really good right now, becauss we now have a way to exile all graveyards, regardless of how many opponents have eldrazi to shuffle them back in, and regardless of whether they have a graveyard removal spell to pop the Lantern in response to using it. We now have a way to one shot all graveyards at one time. In addition, if we simply recycle it, it will still do its job, albeit a bit slower, and keep dangerous targets out if the yard. I'm really liking this printing.
One of the biggest issues for me with the altar kill is that a well timed removal spell can remove our Crypt effect, essentially screwing one opponent out of the game but possibly setting up dangerously loades graveyards for your other opponents, and deck space is too tight to run 2 of these effects.
The lantern solves this issue.
The benefit to using altar in the kill is that it works much better within the Salvaging Station engine to fuel other artifact synergies, increases the artifact and cog count, and as such works within the other systems of engines and interactions in the deck.
Soul-Guide Lantern has been an excellent upgrade to Nihil Spellbomb. I’m glad they finally printed a cog piece that can exile multiple graveyards without touching your own. I also love that the draw engine potential offered by Nihil Spellbomb was left intact. It can even remove a problem card as soon as it enters the battlefield, which makes it a fantastic addition to the Salvaging Station package.
Altar of the Brood is a card that comes in and out of my list a lot. I think you’re right that the lantern improves it a lot, so I may give it another shot. I have a slot for it since Shimmering Dragon isn’t really working out for me. I was really hoping it would help increase my non-combo win rate, but it didn’t really work out that way. It was good for a couple cards every turn, but I really just ended up drawing into combo pieces and winning with them. Definitely not the worst outcome, but another wheel might serve me better. I do wish there were some draw-seven wheels that could leave my graveyard intact though...
I tried Dance of the Manse for a little while, but I ultimately took it out. I really hated that making the artifacts into creatures isn’t optional, and it bit me a few too many times. I’d be more inclined to like it if it were an instant.
I’ve been testing out Ghirapur Orrery lately. Since I also run several wheels and big draw spells, I’ve found that I really can’t get rid of my hand as quickly as I would like in order to take advantage of the draw effect. I just don’t get ahold of LED often enough. Every now and then my opponents get to take too much advantage of it. However, I’m torn, because the extra land drop has been amazing for Bolas’s Citadel. Not only that, but when it’s paired with Crucible of Worlds the value of Stripe Mine and Inventors’ Fair goes through the roof. I can’t bring myself to take it out yet, so I’ve been trying to improve it by adding Null Brooch to my list. Haven’t really gotten enough games in to say whether it’s been worth the slot, but the early returns are good.
Null Brooch is a card that I come back to every once in a while. It feels like it’s been upgraded with the addition of Ghirapur Orrery because now it serves triple duty by simultaneously protecting my board, preventing another player from winning the game, and allowing me to discard my hand *almost* at will. Needing a legal target to take advantage of the discard effect is sometimes a bummer, but it’s mostly worked out very well so far, much to the disappointment of the player to my right. Having a couple ways to untap this, and not needing cards in hand to activate really makes this card put in a lot of work sometimes, so I may keep it in the list this time.
I've looked at revisiting Null Brooch myself again. I like how it is an activated artifact effect that gets to say "No" and the fact it pitches your hand can be a bonus. I'm reluctant to use it because
1) It doesn't directly plug into any of the main engines in the deck, and
2) It's a 4 drop, so it sits on an uncomfortable part of the curve that usually has a glut of equal CMC spells.
3) Deckspace is extremely tight
There are a few benefits though, in how an unwinding clock or clock of Omens can untap it to let you counter additional spells of the opportunity presents itself. I also liked how I used to pair it with Ensnaring Bridge to empty my hand against aggressive boards (this was before I began contributing to this thread, tech was scarce back then, had to take what you could get).
Also, Dance of the Manse isn't performing as I hoped it would, and so I will be swapping it back out for Roar of Reclamation for the next few games. The new lantern will definitely help with this transition.
I really miss using my old manabase and there have been times where not having a 5C manabase has come up in corner cases at the tables. With that said, I did so to push more interactions with Emeria Shepperd and Scaretiller and to thin my library as the grindy games can go longer: artifact hate has become that efficient. So far, they have been decent, but if they don't continue to pull their weight, they will get cut.
I'm hoping to get games in this week with all my decks:. Sharuum, Golos and Zedruu, as they have all had updates within the last few weeks.
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I noticed a bit of a speed issue with my list as well. It seems fairly inconsistent lately. There are games where I come out of the gate fast and dominate the table, and others where I durdle and do nothing the whole game. Part of this can likely be chalked up to poor mulligan decisions, but I’ve come to the conclusion that a lot of my problems are due to how many mana rocks I run and which ones I’ve chosen to run. Three of my rocks, while amazing in their role, do nothing to propel me forward in the early game. Lion’s Eye Diamond asks that I pitch my hand before it’s useful. Lotus Bloom and Mox Tantalite Can’t come online until turn four unless I find a way to discard them and return them to the battlefield before then. I’ve also been running Gilded Lotus and Thran Dynamo, which often don’t come out until an opponent is threatening to win. That’s five of my thirteen rocks that are performing inadequately. I notice Jostin is running all of them as well. I believe this is the source of the explosiveness problem. I cut the signets a while ago as well, and I think it’s been overall detrimental. I’ve been experimenting with a build that both increases the overall number of rocks, and cuts some that I found to be underperforming. So far I’ve had good results. Anyone else been experimenting? What are your thoughts on this?
I’ve been experimenting with a build that both increases the overall number of rocks, and cuts some that I found to be underperforming. So far I’ve had good results. Anyone else been experimenting? What are your thoughts on this?
Good morning everyone. I haven't had much time to play as I've been an essential worker for NYC during the pandemic. However, I wanted to exercise a serious discussion in brainstorming unexplored and under-explored ideas for Sharuum. Now that my hours are returning to a somewhat normal schedule as NY tried to reopen slowly,
LGSs are closed and so getting games in at the start of this pandemic has been tough. However, I've been able to find resources to turn my phone into a webcam to play paper MTG games over platforms like Zoom and get real paper games in.
I'm hoping I will have more time to get in games with Sharuum. That said, I'd like to get all your ideas on what new synergies and engines have been successful in your builds, and what concessions to deck building have needed to be made in order to accommodate those new synergies. I'm talking a deconstructive approach to improving Sharuum.
I've been recently fanning out the deck and seeing what engines plug in and how it affects the rest of the 99, and how that inevitably affects gameplay. We haven't gotten an abundance of toys, but we did get some useful printing that I feel have opened up the discussion as to whether they push the engine Sharuum deck into new spaces of gameplay and role assignment, into new strategies not previously explored or possible. For example:
- The printing of Dranith Magistrate makes it possible to lock out a table from playing spells when an Uba Mask is in play. Half of this 2 card combo can be reanimated and both sides of the combo can be protected once in play, albeit with set-up. With God-Pharoah's Statue as a newer printing and we begin to hit the threshold of cards needed for a Sharuum prison strategy.
- Ghirrapur Orrey has been a decent inclusion to the deck. Such a card may make it possible to include Razormane Masticore into the deck, which has been an amazing board control tool in Vintage, and a great discard outlet. Sharuum and Salvaging Station can turn the discard negative into a new benefit, but doing so will nessesitate change for the rest of the 99 to better accommodate it: increase to artifacts count, more (and cheaper) reanimation spells, and more cogs.
- The changes to rules regarding commanders hitting the command zone has naturally made Tawnos's Coffin stronger. Specifically, the change can now make it such that we can stifle the delayed trigger on the Coffin untapping and permanently put an opposing commander in exile. Opponents can also do that to us. How likely are we to need a way to pull Sharuum out of exile, and by extension, is this "commander sniping" option one we should more fully explore as a strategy.
I'd like to know what have your experiences been with your new synergies in your lists, what were the concessions to these accomodations in building and strategy, and what was the overall cost/benefit analysis to the deck as a whole (how much did it improve the deck compared to how much did the deck lose in instituting the changes).
I'd love to hear your responses.
If needed, I could also host a Zoom meeting with to have a forum on Sharuum upgrades if it would be more productive, and post the discussion on this thread.
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Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995
Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
I think the Zoom idea is nice. However, I'm leaving in Belgium so it'll be very hard for me to find an available time frame.
In addition, I've just created a Discord server for talking about Sharuum Engine. It seems it's the actual trend to do that for deck talkings nowadays, so why not us? Please come populate the place:
- Razormane Masticore: I've the feeling that this Masticore is a bit weak for multiplayer commander. Three damages won't do much in my meta. I'll rather have a Wurmcoil Engine for that mana investment.
- Rules Change: You could do that before too. The modified rules didn't change that. What has changed now, is the trick that allowed an exiled Commander with Coffin that went into the Command Zone to come back to the battlefield is no more.
It's been a while but I am glad to say that I have built an update to my engine-based Sharuum list that feels very cohesive and has been doing better than anticipated.
Spells - 65
Creatures (13)
(3) Eldrazi Displacer
(3) Emry, Lurker of the Loch
(4) Phyrexian Metamorph
(4) Scaretiller
(3) Urza, Lord High Artificer
(5) Kudoltha Forgemaster
(5) Karn, Silver Golem
(6) Noxious Gearhulk
(6) Sharuum the Hegemon
(7) Emeria Shepherd
(7) Magister Sphinx
(7) Myr Battlephere
(8) Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Mana Rocks - 12
(0) Lion's Eye Diamond
(0) Lotus Bloom
(0) Mana Crypt
(0) Mana Vault
(0) Mox Diamond
(0) Mox Opal
(0) Mox Tantalite
(1) Sol Ring
(2) Grim Monolith
(3) Chromatic Lantern
(4) Thran Dynamo
(5) Gilded Lotus
Draw Effects - 7
(3) Thirst for Knowledge
(3) Timetwister
(3) Windfall
(4) Fast or Fiction
(4) Whispering Madness
(5) Memory Jar
(6) Echo of Eons
Tutors - 7
(1) Entomb
(1) Vampiric Tutor
(2) Artificer's Intuition
(2) Demonic Tutor
(2) Transmute Artifact
(3) Intuition
Cog-Based Utility - 8
(1) Aether Spellbomb
(1) Dispeller's Capsule
(1) Executioner's Capsule
(1) Expedition Map
(1) Nihil Spellbomb
(1) Sensei's Divining Top
(1) Voyager's Staff
(1) Wayfarer's Bauble
Non Cog Utility Artifacts - 10
(2) Sword of The Meek
(3) Crucible of Worlds
(3) Sculpting Steel
(4) Ghirrapur Orrey
(4) Unwinding Clock
Resource Conversion Engines- 7
(2) Thopter Foundry
(2) Time Sieve
(4) Clock of Omens
(4) Smothering Tithe
(4) Tawnos's Coffin
(4) Bolas's Citadel
(6) Salvaging Station
Spell-Based Recursion - 2
(5) Unburial Rites
(6) Open the Vaults
(7) Roar of Reclamation
Spell-Based Removal - 3
(2) Cyclonic Rift
(3) Bitter Ordeal
(3) Teferi's Protection
Lands - 35*
Artifact Lands (Cog Lands)- 4
Ancient Den
Darksteel Citadel
Seat of the Synod
Vault of Whispers
Fetch Lands - 4
Flooded Strand
Marsh Flats
Polluted Delta
Prismatic Vista
Fetch Land Targets - 14
Godless Shrine
Hollowed Fountain
Island x2
Mystic Sanctuary
Plains x2
Prairie Stream
Scrubland
Sunken Hollow
Swamp
Tundra
Underground Sea
Watery Grave
Utility Lands - 8
Academy Ruins
Buried Ruin
Geir-Reach Sanitarium
Ghost Quarter
Inventor's Fair
Mirokoku, Center of the Sea
Petrified Field
Strip Mine
Ramp Lands - 5
Ancient Tomb
City of Traitors
Crystal Vein
Gemstone Cavern
Mishra's Workshop
I was really struggling to shave parts of the engine list to make space for testing of the new toys that the deck could possibly use, which is why instead of tweaking it, I decided to do a complete rebuild of it. There are a lot of changes from the previous build so I am going to go through my decision process for this.
I don't know if people are aware of this, but manabases are the thing that usually make or break my want to pilot decks. I hate bad manabases, and I hate mana bases that are unpurposeful, and don;t provide meaningful cohesion for decklists. One of the reason I was drawn to Sharuum and it's original 75/25 ratios for colored cards to non-colored cards has been to take advantage of those ratios and cram as many useful spell lands into the list while still having good mana. that's also the reason why I tried not to deviate from the 50/50 ratio of artifacts to non-artifacts. To truly rebuild the list, I had to break my personal rules for these ratios, as so many new printings just don't allow the deck to continue to fall within those guidelines. The purpose of those guidelines was to keep the deck sufficiently colorless so the inclusion of so many utility lands wold not prevent the deck from being able to play its spells in a timely fashion. It is also a big reason why I chose to play signets over the talismans: it further allowed the deck to play with so many colorless lands. The signets also had a lot of play with the filter lands. It's how the deck could have only 1 land that produced colors in play and still make Esper mana at will.
Since I am running so many more colored spells, one big concession is that I would have to eliminate a sizeable chunk of utility lands and abandon the mana base that has supported the deck for so long. This makes using fetches and basics much more reasonable, and if that's the direction I'm taking the deck, I need the fetches and basics to do more than just color fix and thin. Running a healthy amount of basics allows me to run the check duals, which further allows me to play Mystic Sanctuary and enables me to fill a healthy number of plains to run Emeria Shepherd as a powerful recursion piece. These fetches also allow me to run Scaretiller and Wayfarer's Bauble as pieces that ramp lands, so I don't have to be as dependent on artifact ramp to get to my big mana spells. In particular, Scaretiller can allow the deck lines of play to Strip a land light opponent out of the game. The inclusion of Ghost Quarter over Wasteland is to allow me to search up basics in certain match-ups while still curbing the more broken lands out of other decks. It will take more time to see if this specific permutation of fetches and targets will need to be tuned further, but so far, it's been getting the job done.
Scaretiller: I spoke about the utility of this card. It really shines when paired with Clock of Omens or other tap / untap effects.
Eldrazi Displacer: It's a great blink effect and a colorless non-artifact, which in many game states is a plus.
Emry, Lurker of the Loch: I've really been impressed with this card. She's been a great compliment to Salvaging Station and Sharuum. She's been great at recurring artifacts that S.Station can't touch but you don't necessarily want to cast Sharuum to retrieve. She also brings so much more value to an unpaired Thopter Foundry (one without Sword of The Meek. She allows you to be able to play an inside-out recursion game with your artifacts. Emry really allows you to grind out games by making your graveyard a toolbox, not just a potentially game ending threat, when appropriate. Being able to play Noxious Gearhulk, sac it, and recast, is just amazing. Now, replace Gearhulk with Metamorph in your mind, and you start to see the upper echelon of what's possible. She's a great blink target for the deck alongside Sharuum and Scaretiller, and she almost always costs U. She's just fantastic.
Urza, Lord high Artificer: Yes, this card is bonkers, and he's been discussed in many threads including this one, so I won't rehash all the arguments. One thing that I will say is that he is particularly synergistic with many of the deck's slots, including some of the cogs. Lion's Eye Diamond, Aether Spellbomb, and Voyager's Staff are all examples of cards that can be tapped for mana and still used for their effects, which is nothing to sneeze at. The inclusion of Urza has pushed me to include both Clock of Omens and Unwinding Clock in this latest list, as you can now be tapped out and still make infinite thopters, or activate Artificer's Intuition.
Emeria Shepherd: She's a powerful 7 drop that is a beast of a recursion piece, and worth modifying the manabase to accommodate and use.
Wayfarer's Bauble: A new cog for the deck now that the manabase can accommodate it.
Thran Dynamo: Has been in and out of the list, usually interchangeable with Gilded Lotus. I'm now running it alongside Gilded Lotus to smooth out and bridge some of the new lines of play that have come up for Transmute Artifact, Clock of Omens, Eldrazi Displacer, and Sculpting Steel, and smooth out casting some of the higher cmc draw spells in the deck.
Echo of Eons: My previous Sharuum experiment showed that there was value in running wheels in the deck. Wheels are very powerful with Smothering Tithe and this one allows me to shuffle twister back into my library indefinitely. In a pinch, it can also serve as a one-time Elixir of Immortality when paired with Entomb or Intuition. Allowed me to fuse a card draw slot with the Elixir slot.
Ghirrapur Orrey: This is a card slot that I have to apologize for guys. I've always wanted to slot this into the deck and was never able to make it work, and this card is a perfect example of why you sometimes need to walk away from a problem to find your answers.
I have always had two fears about running this card. The first was not being able to empty my hand with the smattering of high cmc cards I can draw into. The second was that my opponents possibly taking advantage of my cards to pull ahead. I was always judging this card in isolation, and never really through through the lines of play that would make it viable. Playing fetch lands and strip effects raises the bard of utility on this, as Crucible allows you to use them multiple times a turn. However, Artificer's intuition can also let you tutor up your artifact lands to ramp, when your hand is land light. However, the big reason to run this is the Ancestral Recall on your upkeep. There is one card that we already run to great effect that would allow us to do this.
Lion's Eye Diamond
This was a huge oversight on my part, and quite honestly, I should have seen this much sooner. During the rebuild, there was a list of cards that I knew I wanted to try to run in the deck. On this short list was Smothering Tithe, Urza, Mystic Sanctuary, Scaretiller, Cyclonic Rift, and Teferi's Response. I was identifying my lines with Urza and looking at cards to cut to accommodate my wanted inclusions. Skullclamp was a card that I felt was under-performing as it required one too many pieces to get going for a draw engine. I was going over my play lines with Urza when I saw that L.E.D. could be tapped for U and still be popped to pitch your hand. That's when I went back to my binder to reread the card the card and smacked myself for not seeing it sooner. L.E.D. guarantees that you empty your hand to draw the 3 cards, and Salvaging Station, Emry, Eldrazi Displacer and Tawnos's Coffin (the latter two through Sharuum) guarantee that you can keep it going. This was a huge oversight on my part, and for that I apologize, as it most likely has stifled the furtherance and development of tech for Sharuum.
Bolas's Citadel: This card is just nuts and can help you build a dominant board state from nothing. You may not be able to go as deep as K'rrik or other Bolas Citadel decks, but you can easily build an insurmountable boardstate for 10 to 20 life. This card is as close to an auto-include as it gets. Also, the second ability is not to be underestimated, as you can just kill a table for blinking Magister's Sphinx a few times.
Cyclonic Rift / Teferi's Protection: Includes I wanted to make to keep up with the competitive arms race. I especially like Rift and it's applications with our wheel effects.
Mirokoku, Center of the Sea & Geir-Reach Sanitarium: I am running these cards as ways to force Smothering Tithe triggers to happen, and to clear cards off your library for Top. The fact Geir-Reach pitches Sharuum targets is a bonus.
I've gotten about 5 sessions of games in and I have to say the deck feels great. The deck does mulligan differently, as it the curve is different and the lines of play have changed, but it feels very solid.
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
(2) Why Prismatic Vista over another fetchland? (A Misty Rainforest looks more attractive to me.)
(3) Is Ghirapur Orrery really that safe to play?
(4) How went the tests for Mystic Forge and Wishclaw Talisman? (Two cards you cited previously.)
(5) No more PW? You really dropped Tezzeret the Seeker?
(6) Is only one boardwipe effect (Cyclonic Rift) enough?
(7) Scaretiller... The only tap effect in the list is Clock of Omens. I don't really understand this choice.
PS: I think you confused multiple times Teferi's Protection and Teferi's Response in your text.
I’m also not entirely sure how I feel about Scaretiller in the list. Seems like it’s a dud without more tap enablers.
Also, never been entirely sold on Unwinding Clock, but I suppose Eldrazi Displacer and Urza give the list some more to do with mana on opponents’ turns. However, I can still foresee some unwanted interactions with Tawnos’s Coffin. Have you experienced that?
Going to give Ghirapur Orrery a try. I’ve always avoided it since it can help my opponents, but I find I often have no cards in hand very early in the game, so I can certainly see its value. I also run Bazaar of Baghdad in my list, so I can manage the size of my hand fairly well. The extra land drop will definitely come in handy with citadel on the board, so it’s probably worth a try.
I used to run Eldrazi Displacer, but I ended up cutting it because I had cut back on ETB creatures. However, I added Emry and Urza also, so the value may be there again. May try it again at some point.
Any love for Shimmer Dragon? It seems that it would improve Scaretiller, and provide a source of instant-speed card draw that’s hard to deal with. Plus it can help win through combat if you have to go that direction. Haven’t playtested it myself; just wondering if anyone else has.
Stefouch asked some great questions, and I’ll try to answer them as best as I can.
One thing that I needed to wrap my head around is how the changes to the mana producers affected the pacing for lines of play and consistency of plays. In this update, I cut out the 2 cmc mana rocks, and that small change precipitated a few needs:
Time Spiralis a great card, but one that is very expensive to cast. While it’s insane with a Smothering Tithe in play, the fact that it costs 6 mana, is a huge downside. In addition, when you can cast it, you may not always have the 6 lands when you cast it early for it to be mana neutral or mana positive. FOF and Whispering Madness are just cheaper which is the biggest reason they make the cut. The reason I run Echo of Eons over it is a little more nuanced.
One of the big issues with this deck was consolidating play effects and play lines with an ever shrinking number of utility slots to make space of the engine cards and bombs that feed their synergies. I had cut Elixir of Immortality from the list, but still wanted to keep the ability to restock my library to protect my yard from growing too large. Echo doesn’t exile itself, so I can loop it with Timetwister to continuously restock my library if needed. I can also sacrifice this line in a pinch if I need immediate card draw through Entomb. It’s also a decent card to use to manipulate Intuition piles for your opponent. Those lines have not yet shown up, but it will take more games to test the fringes and see if my concerns are warranted.
This change was also precipitated by changes to my mana base along with the inclusion of Emeria Sheppard and Mystic Sanctuary. In the past, being able to run 14-15 mana rocks allowed me to power past and ignore cards like Blood Moon and Back to Basics because I could consistently shift the responsibility of casting my spells and color fixing onto my mana artifacts. Now that the 2 drop artifacts are gone, the list is increasingly vulnerable to such effects. The reason I am using Prismatic Vista over a non-allied blue fetch is to ensure I can hit those basics with more consistency if needed.
I play both storm and Shops in Vintage, and in my UB Park Petition deck, Prismatic Vista has become the second best fetch after Polluted Delta, especially when playing in metas hostile to lands (metagames with tons of Shop decks). I’ve seen its value from both sides of the table, and so I’ve used that experience in making this decision. Sure, Misty Rainforest or Scalding Tarn are better at fetching Mystic Sanctuary but my bigger priority is making sure I avoid getting blown out to land hate cards.
No symmetrical effects is ever 100% safe to play. Cards like Static Orb, Anvil of Bogarden and Horn of Greed are not very commonly played cards for that reason. However, the decks that can break the symmetry of these cards can gain huge value from doing so. Ghirrapur Orrey is such a card. In playing games, I have found that this card nets me a free Ancestral Recall on my upkeep roughly every other turn after turn 3 when played fairly (this is a rough average). Some of our draw spells (those which force discards or shuffle the high CMCs back in), Artificer’s Intuition and Crucible of Worlds help get you to that stat (another reason the fetches are awesome for this list). However, when you get an LED onto the table, it becomes rediculous.
Mystic Forge is a broken card. It’s not difficult to sculpt a scenario where you draw your library, which is the ceiling for the card. What I find is, for you to want it in your deck, you want it to generate a ton of value (at least 3-4 cards a turn just playing off the top of the library). To do this, you need a ton of colorless cards (at least 50-60%), a ton of cheap artifacts (preferably mana rocks), a low land count and the ability for your cost reducers to matter without Mystic Forge on the table. While Sharuum plays a ton of artifacts, we also play a ton of colored spells. Engine Sharuum doesn’t check off all those boxes, and constructing it to do so really waters down the strengths of the deck. Getting mana for a Magister’s Sphinx after you just cast a Noxious Gearhulk off the top is one example of the issues you can run into when playing Mystic Forge in a 3 color deck. It just plays better in an Arcuum or Eldrazi deck.
Wishclaw Talisman is a good card, and plays well with all the untap effects in the deck. I found that when I played it, I wanted to run Voltaic Keys over the mass untappers, and even considered Homeward Path (for it's inside-out lines with Karn, Silver Golem. We have so many good options for tutors that when making the final cuts, this just didn’t make the list. It was close. The fact that this is an artifact, means we can activate and blink it / sac it for value with the ability on the stack. The single black in the cost and colorless activation works really well for us. It interacts very well with Emry. It justs slants us towards running it in a package with 3 or 4 other cards to ensure the tutoring remains 1 sided, and there wasn’t enough space to do so. People who play K’rrick should really consider playing this card. It doesn’t fit in every deck, but its better positioned for ours than most others.
Yes and yes. Tezzeret is a very good card, but it’s slow an increasingly becoming a niche card. It is a 5 mana tutor for 4 drops or less. What gave it a higher ceiling was when Tez able to sit behind an Ensnaring Bridge (with no hand), an army of meekly armed thopters or a fleet ofSphinx of the Steel Winds so you could just accumulate increasingly more value over more and more turns. It is a card that demands a decompressed game from our deck to become better, as there is no 4 > cmc artifact in this deck that ends the game when tutored up. Artifact removal options have never been better or more efficient than they are now, and there are more way to grow wide than ever before. Tezzeret is increasingly becoming too slow to answer the demands of the boardstates I’m seeing games led to, as commanders like Yarok, Urza and K’rrik are putting more pressure, faster, to close games out. I’m finding I’d rather tutor for the right card now than string together synergies over multiple turns. One of the big cuts that diminished his role was the loss of Rings of Brighthearth, as the card demanded other cards be on the table to really extract max value from it. Not having it around makes all the planeswalkers less impactful.
So far, yes. Back when I wrote my philosophy on deckbuilding (which can be found at post #117 here. Specifically, I talked about my philosophy of playing threats over answers. Through all these years, I still adhere to that doctrine and it’s served me well. I am currently running a very high density of “must answer” threats which are immediately impactful and cannot all be answered by the same angles. Also, on post #121 on that same page I detailed my analysis of answers. Specifically, I wrote:
I find this still holds true and you have more ways to do this, and with increased efficiency. Urza ensures [Thopter/Sword] combo ends the game for the table if you get to untap, as opposed to picking off a opponents one at a time. You still have Bitter Ordeal as a game ending line. You still have the plan C of the Air Force beatdown plan. The newest kill line involves Magister Sphinx and Bolas’s Citadel. Both cards have incestuous synergies with each other.
Bolas’s Citadel can free-cast Magister’s Sphix.
Magister’s Sphinx can reset your life total to 10 to “gain” life to keep free casting spells with Citadel.
Bolas’s Citadel can drain all opponents for 10 life.
Magister’s Sphinx can reset opoonent life totals to 10.
Bolas’s Citadel can free-cast all the engines that blink Sphinx
Citadel and aforementioned engines quickly enable 10 non-land permanents to hit the table.
It is very possible to flat-out remove players from the game out of no-where with a Citadel, the rest of your turn and 15-25 life in payment with no other board state to assist in doing so. Once you do, you still have the infrastructure to “off” the next player on the table and in your graveyard. The move away from Voltaic Key to more untap engines was purposely done to assist in building, rebuilding your board and blinking the appropriate cards by your next turn to do it again.
Scaretiller is a choice I’ve become increasingly comfortable with playing with and I feel is a severely underrated card. It serves as a more narrowly tailored Solemn Simulacrum, but where it’s ramp is more in line with the needs of the deck, with additional possible lines of play to exploit. While it’s true that the only cards that can tap Scaretiller are Clock and Urza, the card can also just attack. There are many times where it is more than okay to trade Scaretiller in combat to buyback a Strip Mine and color screw your opponent or deal with a Gaea’s Cradle or Cabal Coffers that’s one untap from putting the game out of reach for the table. If the games are going long, chipping in for 1 to buyback an Inventor’s Fair or Buried Ruin activation for the 2nd time in a turn can be very relevant and sometimes game-breaking.
Thanks man. I found one error and fixed it.
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
Scaretiller really has been growing on me. It's not flashy but it puts in more work than you would think.
As for the untap artifacts and Tawnos's Coffin, the biggest issue would be not keeping a blanket effect creature off the table (think Elesh Norn) with both in play. I don't mind my artifacts coming into play again if the mana rocks are also untapping to be able to reblink if necessary. Also, Tawnos's coffin returns the creature to play tappped, so getting extra uses can set me up to attack past blockers and hit lifetotals or planeswalkers, much like Myr Battlesphere used to before the damage errata. It's very corner case but if it does become a concern, I can just sacrifice or kill that piece myself.
I'm dying to bring back Bazaar into the list but cant find that last cut to do so 1 more cut. With so few rocks, I dont want to cut any more genuine mana sources to do so. The list is super tight.
Lastly, I think Shimmer Dragon is cool, but it's too expensive to not be an artifact. Emeria Shepperd was really tough to accommodate, but it was worth it as it plugs into the recursion engines very well. It's a great card when your ahead or when you're trying to break parity, but it sucks when you're playing from behind. I feel it is a good thought experiment but ultimately the theory wasn't good enough for me to warrant testing.
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I wanted to give an update on my play experiences with the new list and give some thoughts on a very unassuming gems we got in Theros.
I noticed when I got more games in that the deck was less explosive than I liked it to be. When the game gets to the endgame, it's even more resilient than before, but there have been much fewer explosive hands than before. I've been tweaking the deck to increase the number of cogs in the list, which has been paying off. I've added Lotus Petal back into the list and made a few other swaps, and it's been paying off. I'm also trying Dance of the Manse. 8ts been okay so far. Recursion at X=4 has not been as explosive as 4WW for all your artifacts, but I still want to play a few more games with it to see if the one-sided aspect of it is still worth it.
Second, I wanted to revisit bringing back an infinite back into the list that we had previously cut.
Soul-Guide Lantern is probably the best upgrade we have to the Tornod's crypt slot in the deck. It exiles all opponents graveyards. The next best option we have is nihil spellbomb because it draws cards, if we get into grindy gamestates.
Altar of the Brood looks really good right now, becauss we now have a way to exile all graveyards, regardless of how many opponents have eldrazi to shuffle them back in, and regardless of whether they have a graveyard removal spell to pop the Lantern in response to using it. We now have a way to one shot all graveyards at one time. In addition, if we simply recycle it, it will still do its job, albeit a bit slower, and keep dangerous targets out if the yard. I'm really liking this printing.
One of the biggest issues for me with the altar kill is that a well timed removal spell can remove our Crypt effect, essentially screwing one opponent out of the game but possibly setting up dangerously loades graveyards for your other opponents, and deck space is too tight to run 2 of these effects.
The lantern solves this issue.
The benefit to using altar in the kill is that it works much better within the Salvaging Station engine to fuel other artifact synergies, increases the artifact and cog count, and as such works within the other systems of engines and interactions in the deck.
How is everyone else feeling with their lists?
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
Altar of the Brood is a card that comes in and out of my list a lot. I think you’re right that the lantern improves it a lot, so I may give it another shot. I have a slot for it since Shimmering Dragon isn’t really working out for me. I was really hoping it would help increase my non-combo win rate, but it didn’t really work out that way. It was good for a couple cards every turn, but I really just ended up drawing into combo pieces and winning with them. Definitely not the worst outcome, but another wheel might serve me better. I do wish there were some draw-seven wheels that could leave my graveyard intact though...
I tried Dance of the Manse for a little while, but I ultimately took it out. I really hated that making the artifacts into creatures isn’t optional, and it bit me a few too many times. I’d be more inclined to like it if it were an instant.
I’ve been testing out Ghirapur Orrery lately. Since I also run several wheels and big draw spells, I’ve found that I really can’t get rid of my hand as quickly as I would like in order to take advantage of the draw effect. I just don’t get ahold of LED often enough. Every now and then my opponents get to take too much advantage of it. However, I’m torn, because the extra land drop has been amazing for Bolas’s Citadel. Not only that, but when it’s paired with Crucible of Worlds the value of Stripe Mine and Inventors’ Fair goes through the roof. I can’t bring myself to take it out yet, so I’ve been trying to improve it by adding Null Brooch to my list. Haven’t really gotten enough games in to say whether it’s been worth the slot, but the early returns are good.
Null Brooch is a card that I come back to every once in a while. It feels like it’s been upgraded with the addition of Ghirapur Orrery because now it serves triple duty by simultaneously protecting my board, preventing another player from winning the game, and allowing me to discard my hand *almost* at will. Needing a legal target to take advantage of the discard effect is sometimes a bummer, but it’s mostly worked out very well so far, much to the disappointment of the player to my right. Having a couple ways to untap this, and not needing cards in hand to activate really makes this card put in a lot of work sometimes, so I may keep it in the list this time.
1) It doesn't directly plug into any of the main engines in the deck, and
2) It's a 4 drop, so it sits on an uncomfortable part of the curve that usually has a glut of equal CMC spells.
3) Deckspace is extremely tight
There are a few benefits though, in how an unwinding clock or clock of Omens can untap it to let you counter additional spells of the opportunity presents itself. I also liked how I used to pair it with Ensnaring Bridge to empty my hand against aggressive boards (this was before I began contributing to this thread, tech was scarce back then, had to take what you could get).
Also, Dance of the Manse isn't performing as I hoped it would, and so I will be swapping it back out for Roar of Reclamation for the next few games. The new lantern will definitely help with this transition.
I really miss using my old manabase and there have been times where not having a 5C manabase has come up in corner cases at the tables. With that said, I did so to push more interactions with Emeria Shepperd and Scaretiller and to thin my library as the grindy games can go longer: artifact hate has become that efficient. So far, they have been decent, but if they don't continue to pull their weight, they will get cut.
I'm hoping to get games in this week with all my decks:. Sharuum, Golos and Zedruu, as they have all had updates within the last few weeks.
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
1x Aether Spellbomb
1x All Is Dust
1x Altar of the Brood
1x Ancient Den
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Artificer's Intuition
1x Bolas's Citadel
1x Buried Ruin
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Chromatic Lantern
1x City of Brass
1x City of Traitors
1x Clock of Omens
1x Command Tower
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Darksteel Citadel
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Dispeller's Capsule
1x Duplicant
1x Eldrazi Displacer
1x Emry, Lurker of the Loch
1x Entomb
1x Executioner's Capsule
1x Exotic Orchard
1x Expedition Map
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Flooded Strand
1x Forbidden Orchard
1x Geier Reach Sanitarium
1x Gemstone Caverns
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Godless Shrine
1x Grim Monolith
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Inventors' Fair
1x Island
1x Kuldotha Forgemaster
1x Lion's Eye Diamond
1x Lotus Bloom
1x Magister Sphinx
1x Mana Confluence
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Manifold Key
1x Marsh Flats
1x Memory Jar
1x Mirrorpool
1x Mishra's Workshop
1x Mox Diamond
1x Mox Opal
1x Myr Battlesphere
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Noxious Gearhulk
1x Open the Vaults
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Plains
1x Polluted Delta
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Roar of Reclamation
1x Salvaging Station
1x Scrubland
1x Sculpting Steel
1x Search for Azcanta
1x Seat of the Synod
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sharuum the Hegemon
1x Smothering Tithe
1x Sol Ring
1x Soul-Guide Lantern
1x Spellskite
1x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1x Spire of Industry
1x Strip Mine
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Swamp
1x Sword of the Meek
1x Tawnos's Coffin
1x Teferi's Protection
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
1x Tezzeret, Master of the Bridge
1x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Thopter Foundry
1x Thran Dynamo
1x Time Sieve
1x Time Spiral
1x Timetwister
1x Transmogrifying Wand
1x Transmute Artifact
1x Tundra
1x Underground Sea
1x Urza, Lord High Artificer
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Vault of Whispers
1x Voyager Staff
1x Watery Grave
1x Windfall
1x Winter Orb
It's performing well. The addition of Emry, Urza and Bolas Citadel empowered the deck.
I don't play Intuition because my playgroup told me I was all the time too slow to choose my targets.
Spellskite and Winter Orb are my secret techs.
I want to find a spot for Mystic Remora and Engineered Explosives.
And Lurrus of the Dream-Den works nicely with all our cogs and lotuses (I mean maindeck, not as a companion).
Do you have a list of the manarocks you use?
LGSs are closed and so getting games in at the start of this pandemic has been tough. However, I've been able to find resources to turn my phone into a webcam to play paper MTG games over platforms like Zoom and get real paper games in.
I'm hoping I will have more time to get in games with Sharuum. That said, I'd like to get all your ideas on what new synergies and engines have been successful in your builds, and what concessions to deck building have needed to be made in order to accommodate those new synergies. I'm talking a deconstructive approach to improving Sharuum.
I've been recently fanning out the deck and seeing what engines plug in and how it affects the rest of the 99, and how that inevitably affects gameplay. We haven't gotten an abundance of toys, but we did get some useful printing that I feel have opened up the discussion as to whether they push the engine Sharuum deck into new spaces of gameplay and role assignment, into new strategies not previously explored or possible. For example:
- The printing of Dranith Magistrate makes it possible to lock out a table from playing spells when an Uba Mask is in play. Half of this 2 card combo can be reanimated and both sides of the combo can be protected once in play, albeit with set-up. With God-Pharoah's Statue as a newer printing and we begin to hit the threshold of cards needed for a Sharuum prison strategy.
- Ghirrapur Orrey has been a decent inclusion to the deck. Such a card may make it possible to include Razormane Masticore into the deck, which has been an amazing board control tool in Vintage, and a great discard outlet. Sharuum and Salvaging Station can turn the discard negative into a new benefit, but doing so will nessesitate change for the rest of the 99 to better accommodate it: increase to artifacts count, more (and cheaper) reanimation spells, and more cogs.
- The changes to rules regarding commanders hitting the command zone has naturally made Tawnos's Coffin stronger. Specifically, the change can now make it such that we can stifle the delayed trigger on the Coffin untapping and permanently put an opposing commander in exile. Opponents can also do that to us. How likely are we to need a way to pull Sharuum out of exile, and by extension, is this "commander sniping" option one we should more fully explore as a strategy.
I'd like to know what have your experiences been with your new synergies in your lists, what were the concessions to these accomodations in building and strategy, and what was the overall cost/benefit analysis to the deck as a whole (how much did it improve the deck compared to how much did the deck lose in instituting the changes).
I'd love to hear your responses.
If needed, I could also host a Zoom meeting with to have a forum on Sharuum upgrades if it would be more productive, and post the discussion on this thread.
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Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
I think the Zoom idea is nice. However, I'm leaving in Belgium so it'll be very hard for me to find an available time frame.
In addition, I've just created a Discord server for talking about Sharuum Engine. It seems it's the actual trend to do that for deck talkings nowadays, so why not us? Please come populate the place:
https://discord.gg/pm3Cvq5
About your info:
- Razormane Masticore: I've the feeling that this Masticore is a bit weak for multiplayer commander. Three damages won't do much in my meta. I'll rather have a Wurmcoil Engine for that mana investment.
- Rules Change: You could do that before too. The modified rules didn't change that. What has changed now, is the trick that allowed an exiled Commander with Coffin that went into the Command Zone to come back to the battlefield is no more.