So I guess my question is, where do you see the deck belonging along the competitive slope? In my experience Sharuum doesn't keep up with a lot of other competitive decks.
That's a great quesation,and I don'tyet feellike putting a rating on it yet, as I haven't gotten enough games in to give one with confidence. With that said,I felt Sharuum was an 8.5 at it's height 5-6 years ago, and had dropped down to a 5. The few games I played made it feel like at least a 7, with a few playlines feeling like a 9 and ending the gaame immediately. I've only gotten in a few games, having only faced the following commanders:
Teferi Planeswalker (cEDH build)
Atraxa Superfriends
Ezuri, Claw of Progress
Prime Speaker Vannifar
Teysa Karlov
Breya, Etherium Shaper
Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (prison build, not sure if cEDH)
The Gitrog Monster (cEDH build)
Narset, Enlightened Master
Muldrotha (Prison)
Najeela, the Blade Blossom (cEDH)
I lost my first 2 games with the new updates, and have not dropped a game since. (a big part of those 2losses were due to not being familiar with where many of the new play lines would take me, and changes to the weight/value in your opening hand/mulligans). I did not honestly think the changes would have produced such good results, butthere is definately more tinkering that might be done. I need many more games to be able to feel confident in a rating and provide more substantive arguements for it, cuz once I do, people will understandably want to challenge my assertions (and I would continue to welcome them to help optimize Sharuum). That said, I feel this is a good cross-section of strong commanders and that makes these preliminary results very promising.
@Jostin123
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and your updated list.
I was hesitating to include Smothering Tithe because it wasn't artifact, but now you convinced me.
Why the removal of Bazaar? It's a choice I don't understand.
and What are your thoughts about including the new revealed Karn the Great Creator? http://mythicspoiler.com/war/cards/karnthegreatcreator.html
I see it as an interesting recursion (getting back exiled combo pieces) and even a combo piece himself with Mycosynth Lattice (my playgroup even allows 10-cards wishboard, but maybe that exception will not last with this new Karn).
Bazaar plugged into a few different parts of the deck but one of the main synergies was in being able to drop your hand to lock out combat under an Ensnaring Bridge. This, by extension, was done to protect your planeswalkers and amass your thopter army to win via combat through your own bridge. With bridge gone, I didn't think it was good enough to justify not trying something else in its place. It may go back in, but I don;t miss feelingrequired to run both Urborg and Chromatic Lantern to not get mana screwed on Bazaar hands. It may go back in, but I definately think with Smothering Tithe in the list, Geir-Reach Sanitarium may be just as good.s Or, it could be that Smohering Tithe makes is that Urborg is nolonger needed. Time (and testing) will tell. All I know is that,as SmotheringTithe is not an artifact, it is not a card I want to lean on too heavily. I don't mind using it to close the door on games, but I don't feel confident in using it to pry a game open (if that makes any sense).
Since a few month, I'm testing the inclusion of a weird card that I'm still not disappointed. I was looking for an extra creature-removal artifact piece, and found this:
Upon testing, it proved very useful:
- It answers any creature for 4 generic mana. (It's a bit expensive, but not for Sharuum)
- It can immediately answer more than one creature with Voltaic Key and Clock of Omens, for not that much extra mana. Allowing two-for-one, or even three-for-one.
- It's a card that answers threats AND is a threat itself. If the opponent don't destroy the wand, he will hesitate to cast his best creatures.
- When empty, the wand can still be copied again, used for Clock of Omens, or sacrificed to other artifacts, then resurrected by Sharuum. Or even blinked by Venser or Master Transmuter.
The 2/4 Ox tokens are not threatening to us. They can't block our flying Sphinxes and are killed by them.
I've seen the spoilers for it, and I think its going to be insane in vintage as a tinker target. It can go kill a table in an artifact shell with Aetherflux Reservoir, especially with Top managing life totals to start.
I had mixed results with Sharuum during the last meet-up. In one game, I drew only 8 artifacts during the hour long game, missing all my engine pieces after having to burn a vamp Tutor to get my 3rd land and having drawn no other tutors. The next game, Sharuum did what she needed to do. I need more games to test the changes and see if the removal of Thirst and FoF is stalling the deck out more that is acceptable. I need more games under the belt.
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I wanted to chime in since it's been a few days and I've had a few more games. Smothering Tithe is still very strong but I've scaled back the number of changes from.the original list. I will be posting the new updates soon, when I get a chance. So far, the changes are solid. I'm really trying to get a solid number of games in in 2 different areas so I get a better cross-section of commander games. I'm hoping the upcomming holiday will let me do just that.
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In my recent play testing the triple black in the cost seems a little difficult at times. Also, having a high average cmc can be pretty painful. Often feels like I need more life gain to really abuse it. However, I often can win the turn I play it if I use shuffle and draw effects wisely, so it might be worth further tweaks to use it more effectively.
The new revealed Urza, Lord High Artificer seems a good inclusion.
He likes to be blinked, creates a big artifact token, and turns our cogs into manarocks.
Moreover, he comboes with Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek to create infinite tokens and infinite mana.
Infinite mana leads to infinite library cast with him.
Definitely worth testing. I like his potential, but hate that he’s a creature. Makes me wish we could have the real Tolarian Academy. The additional interaction with existing combo pieces is nice though.
Mirrodin Besieged seems interesting. Shouldn’t be hard to hit 15 artifacts in the yard, but killing one player per turn is a little slow for my taste. Might test it anyway. Time Sieve may help it be better.
I've been gone for a few weeks as things have gotten busy, but I've gotten some good testing in. It's been difficult in the beginning to jam games with my work schedule, but I've made progress with testing. What I'm seeing is that the engines in the deck are diverging from one another, and as such, I've revisited old tech to reenter the deck to then test new slots. This has proven to be far more effective in providing adequate card testing and evaluating. Since tomorrow is a major day off, I'm going to try to put my thoughts down on paper to give you all my thoughts on what I've been seeing.
With that said, I still haven't 5ested everything, as some of the newer cards have made me look to older tech in ways that are either new, or have been underutilized in the past.
I look forward to sharing that with you soon.
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I've gone close to 4 years where I have not played Sharuum on a regular basis. Having been turned off by the lack of printings that directly affected the deck while other archetypes were getting exciting new pillars for their respective commanders.
It has been frustrating to see Sharuum's primary engines receive meaningful printing at a glacial pace while other commanders receive printing that felt they were customized specifically for them, and whose impact has taken those decks from a power level of a 4-5 to a power level of 8-9, seemingly overnight.
I have always said that when it comes to broken artifacts, WoTC tends to print them in 4-6 year cycles. It took a while, but there is finally a threshold or artifacts and artifact synergies to seriously revisit and bring meaningful change and improvements for the Sharuum engine-based deck.
In addition, there has been a bigger shift with the format overall. With Commander being the most successful format in Magic, WoTC has been tailoring printings every set specifically for the format, slotting most if those printings in the rare and mythic slot, and now as buy-a-box promos, to help sell packs and boxes along-side the needs of the competitive crowd.
This has created a shift in the format where decks are stronger, faster, and the majority of commanders now have pillars that are independent of one another. While commanders share format pillars, the cards that make one commander strategy tick are often different from ones that make another tick within the same archetype, now that sufficient printings have fine-tuned the specialized needs for most commanders. This means that the needs and pace for our engine-based deck has also changed. This is what has led me to revisit old tech while looking to evaluate newer cards within a wider scope.
I have finally been able to get a string of games together among different play groups, letting me first get a feel of what the deck needed/was missing, and what was underperforming.
I have recognized a few things about the format since I've begun playing commander more consistantly:
1) The pace of the format has sped up. With the constant stream of printings that are constantly breaking commanders, decks are becoming more proactive; game states are becoming more "answer now" and the windows of opportunity to respond to these game states are becoming smaller and smaller over time. I am finding that as a general rule, being proactive is strategically better than being reactionary.
2) I am finding that the prevalence of individual archetype staples has diversified and tapered off while format staples have consolidated across decks. Gone are the days where every deck susceptible to mill ran an Eldrazi legend for the shuffle effect, but conversely almost every deck that can support format staples (such as Cyclonic Rift, Paradox Engine, Protean Hulk and Teferi's protection) runs them. As such, part of winning the game is being able to shape the game to make these format staple cards as harmless as possible. The way you beat these staples is to force your opponent to play them to prevent him/her from losing as opposed to allowing your opponent the opportunity and time to weaponize these cards to solidify a win. This gameplan plays into the proactive tendencies the format is being pushed towards. It also changes the playstyle that the deck was previously built towards, which also changes the application and value of the slots in the deck.
I started by piloting the original list, which took quite a few lumps in those first games (it took a while to get the rust off, no pun intended). If you need to find the original list, it can be found here. After having played a solid number of games, I have finally settled on a direction strong and consistent enough to guide the deck towards.
Bolas's Citadel - I feel that Bolas's Citadel is a build-around card for this deck. As a cog-based deck, the life payment is negligible for almost half of our artifacts which are mana rocks or 0-1 cost artifacts. However, our deck makes the sacrifice ability very relevant. It plays very well with Magister's Sphinx, which resets and opponent's life to 10, where Bolas's Citadel just finishes the opponent from there. Sharuum has multiple ways to gain life, which allows us to get additional mileage out if the Citadel if needed.
Smothering Tithe - I've spoken about this card previously, but I'll reiterate my points:
It generates free artifact permanents for the deck, making it a "must answer". Tithe serves as ramp if played early, easies color requirements and has brutal synergizes with many cards in the deck.
For this update, I will be focusing on the synergies between Magister's Sphinx, Bolas's Citadel and Smothering Tithe as the compass guiding my decisions for the deck, as the synergies that branch between these 3 cards, and independent from these 3 cards, feel like a strong enough base to retune the deck's engines around. That is not to say this is the best course for updating and improving the deck... time will tell whether this is the case. I do feel though, that this is a solid foundation for moving forward with credible ideas for improving the deck.
Mana Rocks - 14
Cog Mana Rocks - 8
(0) Lion's Eye Diamond
(0) Lotus Bloom
(0) Mana Crypt
(0) Mox Diamond
(0) Mox Tantalite (new)
(0) Mox Opal
(0) Mana Vault
(1) Sol Ring
Utility Lands - 9
Academy Ruins
Buried Ruin
Cavern of Souls
Emergence Zone (new)
Geir-Reach Sanitarium (should be Bazaar)
Blast Zone
Inventor's Fair
Strip Mine
Mirror Pool (revisited)
Ramp Lands - 5
Ancient Tomb -f
City of Traitors
Crystal Vein
Gemstone Cavern -f
Mishra's Workshop
Salvaging the Station Engine: I've needed to reevaluate the engine Components, consolidate what I could and get rid off what was no longer necessary.
Mox Tantalite - Strict upgrade to Lotus Petal, which was the weakest mana rock in the list. Mox Tantalite is now the third mana rock that can combo with Karn, Silver Golem and Salvaging Station to create infinite death triggers for the deck.
Altar of the Brood - With the popularity and revitalization of library based combo strategies (Protean Hulk, Zur, Arcum, Yisan, and now Prime Speaker Vannifar) I chose Altar as an easily tutorable way to threaten an infinite (via mill) while being very serviceable in breaking up opposing infinite combos. As it increased the lethality of graveyard based decks, I've added a second graveyard hate piece in Nihil Spellbomb to compensate.
Elixir of Immortality - Was cut as the deck is no longer looking to prolong games to outgrind the opponent. As such, using Elixir to protect specific combo pieces from timely graveyard hate is a bridge too far and so it's been cut.
Voltaic Key - This one was a tough cut. It's a cog and so it plugs in with the engine, but like Venser, a one time untap doesn't do enough for enough games, and so it has been cut for Clock of Omens, which has been putting in more work.
Recoupling Combo Engines:
Thopter / Sword Combo - Generates life and permanents for Bolas's Citadel, and still can fog combat steps and threaten life totals with enough mana.
Time Sieve - Can generate free turns via Smothering Tithe, plugs into Thopter/Sword combo to end games, great lightning rod for targeted artifact hate.
Clock of Omens - Creates tons of mana with Smothering Tithe without losing the treasure, helps Salvaging Station and Tawnos's coffing blink creatures multiple times in a turn
Tawnos's Coffin - Still amazing at rebuilding your board with your commander, blinkable creature suite has been tweaked to work better with Citadel
Trading Post - Smothering Tithe created the mana and fodder to make TP more efficient, gets better with Clock of Omens
Salvaging Station - Still amazing at generating permanents for the deck, and recycling utility permanents to disrupt opponents. Cogs used for the engine are easy to play via Citadel and Station helps rebuy those permanents.
Cultivating the Draw Engine:
With the focus on Smothering Tithe, I am choosing to use Draw 7s as my defacto card advantage spells. Smothering Tithe will grow me free lotus petals, while Clock of Omens allows me to empty my hand if I have a few mana rocks at my disposal. Additionally, overlapping multiple twister effects will help in protecting my graveyard from incidental hate. The spellbombs go a long way with the draw 7s as they will tuck whatever they hit back into that player's library, where it is harder for most decks to access, and the synergy between them and Cyclonic Rift is too good to pass up. So far, these options have been mostly better: there have been times where I've missed the binning effect of cards like Thirst for Knowledge and Fact or Fiction, but the benefits have been very good.
Toy Soldiers: The creature suite in the deck has also been modified to plug into the value engines and game plan of the deck. I have now gone to 10 creatures in the deck.
Phyrexian Metamorph - The all-star if the deck, metamorph plays star roles in multiple engines, while also doubling as my opponent's best artifact ir creature, Magister Sphinx #2 or another jet in the airforce plan.
Kudoltha Forgemaster - Smothering Tithe makes free sac fodder for him, and he helps Tutor for the other half of many of your engine pieces. Super strong.
Karn, Silver Golem - Everything discussed in the Karn clinic is still relevant today. We can now include "efficiently destroys treasure" to that section.
Noxious Gearhulk - Replaces duplicant in this slot. The life gain is helpful in a pinch. Menace can also close out close games
Steel Hellkite - Helps contain boards which has become increasingly important now that treasure is so easy to come by.
Marionette Master - Older card that's gotten a new look. Marionette Master creates free permanents for Bolas's Citadel, but the counters can also drain opposing life totals with Citadel. Citadel sacrificing 10 artifacts with a Marionette Master on the table with 3 +1/+1 counters will drain a player for 40. Also remember, Tawnos's coffing can not only create more servos, it can also force Marionette Master to accumulate additional +1/+1 counters.
Myr Battlephere - Efficiently makes artifact permanents for Citadel and can threaten to kill anyone Magister Sphinx has sneezed at. Due to updated damage rules, you can no longer swing at a player/planeswalker and burn out a second planeswalker with the triggered damage: it all goes to the attacked player / permenant.
Sphinx of the Steel Wind - For those times when a games devolves into a dragged-knuckle, no-holds barred, on-board fist fight, accept no substitutes.
What's been cut:
Mind's Eye - Because the faster pace of the format and the increased number of "must answer" cards, it is dangerous to sit back and rely on stalling out your opponent's turns to refill your hand. As such, I've pulled Mind's Eye from the list for more effective cards.
Venser, the Sojourner - Venser's main use was to blink permanents, which worked great with Sharuum, but more commonly, allowed you to untap your tapped mana rocks, especially those that dont untap as usual. The minus ability was also great when you've has the time to create an army of thopters to kill a player. We don't have the time to make the second ability useful, and a one-time blink ability isnt impactful enough, so it's also cheering the deck on from the sidelines.
Karn Liberated - Has since been replaced by Ugin, which is a much better sweeper, and has a more relevant ultimate.
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas - Due to the changes in deck construction, this Tez doesn't hit enough of your bombs consistently enough to warrant the slot. Also, since we run fewer planeswalkers, it's less relevant to make the 5/5 body to protect them. It's still a solid card, and I can definately see it making it's way back into the deck if some new printings allow us to make a multiple minor tweaks to the deck.
Rings of Brighthearth - Rings is a card that allowed our loop engines to be kicked into overdrive. For that to happen, we needed time to pair it with those engines and abilities. It gave additional value to our value engines. With the amount of efficient artifact hate available, we dont have the time to sit back and milk Rings for value. As such, it's taking a back seat to better utility cards for now.
Personally I would suggest cutting one of Open the Vaults / Roar of Reclamation and replace it with Codex Shredder. It lets you regrowth if required, and can be great for screwing with opponent's tutors. Manifold Key seems to be a direct upgrade for Voltaic Key but can also be used for kills.
I am not convinced about Marionette Master over Sculpting Steel or Disciple of the Vault. The master isnt an artifact itself so has limited interactivity with the rest of your deck. You've also minimized the clone options for the Sharuum loop. If you want to move away from that interaction then OK, but maybe its time to cut Bitter Ordeal.
Both modes of Mirrodin Besieged are great for this deck. The first is more gas in the tank, and the second outright kills people; rapidly with Time Sieve
Hi Jostin! Nice to see you back with your flag ship Sharuum!
Thanks to take the time to write your update reports and share them with us.
These post are a gold mine and have shaped my EDH playstyle even with other Commanders.
After reading this last update, a few questions come to my mind:
Mox Tantalite – Isn't this rock too slow? It's a bit contradictive with what you said about the speed of the format. I can understand for Lotus Bloom because you are rewarded with 3 manas instead of only 1. Are you totally sold with Mox Tantalite?
Elixir of Immortality – Can still generate lot of life with Clock of Omens by stacking multiple activation on the stack. Good for Citadel. Did you consider this aspect of the Elixir?
Teferi's Protection – I see you were playing this card and removed it. Did you removed it because you are playing too many wheel effects? Or was it mediocre at protecting your board and your life?
Blast Zone – Has Blast Zone proven more useful than any other utility lands? I've the feeling it's too slow. What do you intend to destroy with it?
Would you consider the following six cards?
Tezzeret, Master of the Bridge – All his modes are useful to us. His +2 is damn powerful with Smothering Tithe out, and we need life for Bolas's Citadel. He can also protect himself by landing a free artifact creature thanks to his static ability. I am actually testing him with good results.
Urza, Lord High Artificer – He turns our cogs into manarocks, creates a big token, and is a wincon by himself if you manage to generate infinite mana. With him, you can use the treasure tokens without having to sacrifice them. Urza gives the vibe of a Tolarian Academy, but probably the Engine does not interact enough with him.
Mystic Forge – Seems a good backup for the Citadel plan.
Notion Thief/Narset, Parter of Veils – With all these wheel effects, wouldn't these two cards being auto-includes?
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@serrasin:
Wouldn't Mirrodin Besieged risky for your graveyard? If your meta finally knows you are playing this card, wouldn't they always exile your graveyard at each opportunity regardless other opponents?
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Other notes:
Voltaic Key/Manifold Key – I'm playing Clock of Omens since the beginning of time I built a Sharuum Engine deck, and I can't resolve myself to remove the key. From a personal point of view, I'm convincing myself to consider it a manarock, since it can generate positive mana in combination with 6 or 7 other manarocks (those adding 2+ manas). It's so needed for Mana Vault and Grim Monolith (and Basalt Monolith, if you play it). It's also fetchable with Artificer's Intuition and reccurrable with Salvaging Station, which Clock isn't.
Noxious Gearhulk < Duplicant – According to me, the latter is superior due to the exile effect... but I play both!
Artifact Lands – I don't play them because I hate loosing -also- some lands and my manarocks during an artifact boardwipe. What are your experiences with this situation?
Fetchlands – I'm playing 7 of them and removed the Filterlands (and the Signets). They help shuffle the library for Sensei's Divining Top and Bolas's Citadel.
Rings of Brighthearth – Seems to have gained extra value in my list with the extra fetchlands and the new Tezz. But I've the feeling it's winmoOore.
Re: Mirrodin Besieged, If you put it in the death star mode all of the time, then yeah, but I find that people target Sharuum graveyard with hate anyways. It also triggers at end of turn, so you can play it and nuke someone immediately.
Even if you don't have a yard when it comes into play, the other mode is still great. The only downside is that it's an enchantment.
Do you think Bolas's Citadel is an auto-include for Sharuum? I could see it replacing Mind's Eye since we already play Sensei's Divining Top.
I haven't added Bolas's Citadel to my deck but I may to my build. I tend to run a more competitive build of Sharuum, though I have been wanting to slow down my deck to be more fun and not get hated out so quickly lol.
Do you think Bolas's Citadel is an auto-include for Sharuum? I could see it replacing Mind's Eye since we already play Sensei's Divining Top.
I haven't added Bolas's Citadel to my deck but I may to my build. I tend to run a more competitive build of Sharuum, though I have been wanting to slow down my deck to be more fun and not get hated out so quickly lol.
Meanwhile, I got the time to test the Bolas's Citadel. It's bonkers! Really strong with our many 0- and 1-cmc artifacts.
Hey guys, just wanted to chime in and respond, now that things have calmed down from the summer.
Mox Tantalite – Isn't this rock too slow? It's a bit contradictive with what you said about the speed of the format. I can understand for Lotus Bloom because you are rewarded with 3 manas instead of only 1. Are you totally sold with Mox Tantalite?
I love Mox Tantalite, but I definitely don’t cast it from hand. It is an excellent acceleration piece that works within the Salvaging Station shell. It is tutorable with Artificer’s Intuition, gives you all the benefits of the Lotus Petal loops, but can be used more than once, unlike Lotus Petal. Much better target for the value blink on Sharuum.
Elixir of Immortality – Can still generate lot of life with Clock of Omens by stacking multiple activation on the stack. Good for Citadel. Did you consider this aspect of the Elixir?
I saw the line, but it was never one of the more optimal uses I have seen once Citadel was in the deck. If I found myself going off with Citadel, using those finite untaps to gain life to then burn on Citadel casts was just not an efficient use of those resources in any game I had played.
Teferi's Protection – I see you were playing this card and removed it. Did you removed it because you are playing too many wheel effects? Or was it mediocre at protecting your board and your life?
I wish I could play it, but just didn’t have the space.
Blast Zone – Has Blast Zone proven more useful than any other utility lands? I've the feeling it's too slow. What do you intend to destroy with it?
One of the reasons I love Sharuum is because of the high colorless count, which allows me to squeeze more utility lands into the manabase without affecting my ability to play my spells. Blast Zone looks super good on paper, but I have yet to find a board state that it has wrecked. The idea for its inclusion was that you’d be able to pump more mana into the “XX” ability than most decks, allowing you to squeeze in pinpoint removal without cutting slots. A ratchet bomb is always useful but not really a card you want to cut other cards for. I see it more as an insurance policy. There are times we will have extra mana with no mana sinks, so setting this to the cc’s of other commanders on those turns is a productive use of otherwise wasted mana. Same can be said for pieces you know other kick opponent’s cards & commanders into hyperdrive.
Would you consider the following six cards?
Tezzeret, Master of the Bridge – All his modes are useful to us. His +2 is damn powerful with Smothering Tithe out, and we need life for Bolas's Citadel. He can also protect himself by landing a free artifact creature thanks to his static ability. I am actually testing him with good results.
Urza, Lord High Artificer – He turns our cogs into manarocks, creates a big token, and is a wincon by himself if you manage to generate infinite mana. With him, you can use the treasure tokens without having to sacrifice them. Urza gives the vibe of a Tolarian Academy, but probably the Engine does not interact enough with him.
Mystic Forge – Seems a good backup for the Citadel plan.
Notion Thief/Narset, Parter of Veils – With all these wheel effects, wouldn't these two cards being auto-includes?
All the aforementioned cards are definitely build-arounds that could be incorporated into Sharuum, but don’t necessarily mesh well with each other (some do, others don’t). Here are my thoughts for the 5 you listed…
Tez, Master of the Bridge: I though this one would be an auto-include but it didn’t work out that way, but it’s not because he isn’t good. He is a card that wants to be in a deck that is more artifact-centric than a deck with a ton of wheel effects. He’s a great card, but not for the specific take on Sharuum I’m using, which is heavier on non-artifact spells than my previous lists. I would love to see your list so I could see the micro-interactions with him and other pieces.
Urza, Lord High Artificer: I build my specific list before he was spoiled. He is a beast, and adding him would have required an immediate retool at a time where I’ve been making extensive notes on the wheel list to compare to other divergent Sharuum builds. Inclusion would likely push me to abandon Smothering Tithe for a much more streamlined artifact-centric list, moreso than my previous ones, and possibly abandon parts of the Salvaging Station engine (while possibly creating infinite mana with other parts of that same engine). (Please note that I am creating this post after Paradox Engine was banned from EDH, so my comments reflect what I imagine the deck could look like after the ban, not before.)
Mystic Forge: Another ridiculous printing for the deck, which would require yet another retool to truly abuse the deck in a way that got it restricted in Vintage. I love this card, and it is everything that Mind’s eye wanted to be and more, and at a discounted CMC.
Notion Thief/Narset, Parter of Veils: These 2 cards would be amazing in a wheel list, but if I was going to run them, I’d run them together instead of trying to miser one in the deck, as that would be what the deck would be aiming to do to control the table. As it stands, I think Mystic Forge is more compact and degenerate at its best than this package + wheels, requiring just as many pieces which would be easier to protect, more easily recurrable, and would share more synergy with the rest of the deck.
Other notes:
Voltaic Key/Manifold Key – I'm playing Clock of Omens since the beginning of time I built a Sharuum Engine deck, and I can't resolve myself to remove the key. From a personal point of view, I'm convincing myself to consider it a manarock, since it can generate positive mana in combination with 6 or 7 other manarocks (those adding 2+ manas). It's so needed for Mana Vault and Grim Monolith (and Basalt Monolith, if you play it). It's also fetchable with Artificer's Intuition and reccurrable with Salvaging Station, which Clock isn't.
I understand how you feel and I feel much the same way. However, due to the space constraints of a wheel-centric deck, if you chose to go that route, you don’t have enough slots to accommodate identical effects.
Noxious Gearhulk < Duplicant – According to me, the latter is superior due to the exile effect... but I play both!
I have been going back and forth between running one and both myself.
Artifact Lands – I don't play them because I hate loosing -also- some lands and my manarocks during an artifact boardwipe. What are your experiences with this situation?
Hands down, I love them and when you get Salvaging station on board and the mana to animate S.S., you can very likely kill the table. I find them to be well worth the risk.
Fetchlands – I'm playing 7 of them and removed the Filterlands (and the Signets). They help shuffle the library for Sensei's Divining Top and Bolas's Citadel.
I have been running 3, and it’s not because I don’t have the full set. I run the filterlands, but that’s because I also run the 7 and 8 drop sphinxes, and in my playgroups, the beatdown plan can be relevant. More recently, the ability to reset an opponent to 10 and kill off a Citadel activation, cast a Roar of Rec. and do it again, has been a little too spicy for me to pass up the filterlands just yet. Also, if you find that you’re getting stuck on not casting cards off citadel, find your top and pay 1 life to draw I, clearing it off the top of the deck.
Rings of Brighthearth – Seems to have gained extra value in my list with the extra fetchlands and the new Tezz. But I've the feeling it's winmoOore.
It definitely is more win-more. I like it when the environment is more grindy, as if helps you edge out a ton of value, but it requires time and mana to do so. If you play with very grindy play-groups, definitely play it, but it gets worse as the average power level of your table goes up and the average kill turn goes down.
Now that I've gotten a feel for the ups and downs of a wheel-based list, I will be rebuilding Sharuum again to compare power level. This next iteration will be a Mystic Forge list. I will be doing this to compare optimizations for Sharuum, but to do so is very time consuming, and I don't get to game multiple times a week like I did years ago (more Daddy duties now), so I apologize if I don't get to respond as quickly as I'd like to.
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Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995
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I'm super excited to see some action on this thread again!
Sharuum used to be my absolute favorite commander when I used to play a lot. I ended up selling out most of my high powered EDH decks to buy into legacy at the time, but now am finding my love for commander again. As a result I've been toying around with the idea of rebuilding this engine Sharuum. I miss all the crazy complex lines that the deck had.
What happened with Krark-Clan Ironworks? It hasn't been mentioned in the last few pages, and I feel like it used to be an integral part of engine va-ruum being able to have explosive mana heavy turns?
Witching Well has been an excellent Salvaging Station target. There has even been a few occasions when I have found it's second ability useful.
Emry, Lurker of the Loch is not so helpful with Lotus Bloom and Mox Tantalite, and the mill part has made me sad a couple of times, but it plays almost like having a second Salvaging Station.
Dance of the Manse replaced Open the Vaults. There is enough artifact abuse in my meta that giving my opponents back their own stuff has been a real issue. I generally don't need everything in my graveyard back when I played Open the Vaults. I was usually only after a couple of combo pieces that had been removed. Keeping thing's one sided with the option to return my enchantments makes this a very solid card.
It's been busy lately, but I just finished a huge personal commitment and so I've freed myself up to devote more time to playing more EDH games. I'm currently working on rebuilding Sharuum, taking advantage of her new potential toys. I'm still working through the micro interactions of the deck. New cards I'm looking to check out are the new black artifact Tutor, Emry, Mystic Forge and a few others.
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Teferi Planeswalker (cEDH build)
Atraxa Superfriends
Ezuri, Claw of Progress
Prime Speaker Vannifar
Teysa Karlov
Breya, Etherium Shaper
Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (prison build, not sure if cEDH)
The Gitrog Monster (cEDH build)
Narset, Enlightened Master
Muldrotha (Prison)
Najeela, the Blade Blossom (cEDH)
I lost my first 2 games with the new updates, and have not dropped a game since. (a big part of those 2losses were due to not being familiar with where many of the new play lines would take me, and changes to the weight/value in your opening hand/mulligans). I did not honestly think the changes would have produced such good results, butthere is definately more tinkering that might be done. I need many more games to be able to feel confident in a rating and provide more substantive arguements for it, cuz once I do, people will understandably want to challenge my assertions (and I would continue to welcome them to help optimize Sharuum). That said, I feel this is a good cross-section of strong commanders and that makes these preliminary results very promising.
Bazaar plugged into a few different parts of the deck but one of the main synergies was in being able to drop your hand to lock out combat under an Ensnaring Bridge. This, by extension, was done to protect your planeswalkers and amass your thopter army to win via combat through your own bridge. With bridge gone, I didn't think it was good enough to justify not trying something else in its place. It may go back in, but I don;t miss feelingrequired to run both Urborg and Chromatic Lantern to not get mana screwed on Bazaar hands. It may go back in, but I definately think with Smothering Tithe in the list, Geir-Reach Sanitarium may be just as good.s Or, it could be that Smohering Tithe makes is that Urborg is nolonger needed. Time (and testing) will tell. All I know is that,as SmotheringTithe is not an artifact, it is not a card I want to lean on too heavily. I don't mind using it to close the door on games, but I don't feel confident in using it to pry a game open (if that makes any sense).
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
Transmogrifying Wand
Upon testing, it proved very useful:
- It answers any creature for 4 generic mana. (It's a bit expensive, but not for Sharuum)
- It can immediately answer more than one creature with Voltaic Key and Clock of Omens, for not that much extra mana. Allowing two-for-one, or even three-for-one.
- It's a card that answers threats AND is a threat itself. If the opponent don't destroy the wand, he will hesitate to cast his best creatures.
- When empty, the wand can still be copied again, used for Clock of Omens, or sacrificed to other artifacts, then resurrected by Sharuum. Or even blinked by Venser or Master Transmuter.
The 2/4 Ox tokens are not threatening to us. They can't block our flying Sphinxes and are killed by them.
It's biggest downfall is being sorcery speed.
I had mixed results with Sharuum during the last meet-up. In one game, I drew only 8 artifacts during the hour long game, missing all my engine pieces after having to burn a vamp Tutor to get my 3rd land and having drawn no other tutors. The next game, Sharuum did what she needed to do. I need more games to test the changes and see if the removal of Thirst and FoF is stalling the deck out more that is acceptable. I need more games under the belt.
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
He likes to be blinked, creates a big artifact token, and turns our cogs into manarocks.
Moreover, he comboes with Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek to create infinite tokens and infinite mana.
Infinite mana leads to infinite library cast with him.
And most of all, it's Urza!
Mirrodin Besieged seems interesting. Shouldn’t be hard to hit 15 artifacts in the yard, but killing one player per turn is a little slow for my taste. Might test it anyway. Time Sieve may help it be better.
I've been gone for a few weeks as things have gotten busy, but I've gotten some good testing in. It's been difficult in the beginning to jam games with my work schedule, but I've made progress with testing. What I'm seeing is that the engines in the deck are diverging from one another, and as such, I've revisited old tech to reenter the deck to then test new slots. This has proven to be far more effective in providing adequate card testing and evaluating. Since tomorrow is a major day off, I'm going to try to put my thoughts down on paper to give you all my thoughts on what I've been seeing.
With that said, I still haven't 5ested everything, as some of the newer cards have made me look to older tech in ways that are either new, or have been underutilized in the past.
I look forward to sharing that with you soon.
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
It has been frustrating to see Sharuum's primary engines receive meaningful printing at a glacial pace while other commanders receive printing that felt they were customized specifically for them, and whose impact has taken those decks from a power level of a 4-5 to a power level of 8-9, seemingly overnight.
I have always said that when it comes to broken artifacts, WoTC tends to print them in 4-6 year cycles. It took a while, but there is finally a threshold or artifacts and artifact synergies to seriously revisit and bring meaningful change and improvements for the Sharuum engine-based deck.
In addition, there has been a bigger shift with the format overall. With Commander being the most successful format in Magic, WoTC has been tailoring printings every set specifically for the format, slotting most if those printings in the rare and mythic slot, and now as buy-a-box promos, to help sell packs and boxes along-side the needs of the competitive crowd.
This has created a shift in the format where decks are stronger, faster, and the majority of commanders now have pillars that are independent of one another. While commanders share format pillars, the cards that make one commander strategy tick are often different from ones that make another tick within the same archetype, now that sufficient printings have fine-tuned the specialized needs for most commanders. This means that the needs and pace for our engine-based deck has also changed. This is what has led me to revisit old tech while looking to evaluate newer cards within a wider scope.
I have finally been able to get a string of games together among different play groups, letting me first get a feel of what the deck needed/was missing, and what was underperforming.
I have recognized a few things about the format since I've begun playing commander more consistantly:
1) The pace of the format has sped up. With the constant stream of printings that are constantly breaking commanders, decks are becoming more proactive; game states are becoming more "answer now" and the windows of opportunity to respond to these game states are becoming smaller and smaller over time. I am finding that as a general rule, being proactive is strategically better than being reactionary.
2) I am finding that the prevalence of individual archetype staples has diversified and tapered off while format staples have consolidated across decks. Gone are the days where every deck susceptible to mill ran an Eldrazi legend for the shuffle effect, but conversely almost every deck that can support format staples (such as Cyclonic Rift, Paradox Engine, Protean Hulk and Teferi's protection) runs them. As such, part of winning the game is being able to shape the game to make these format staple cards as harmless as possible. The way you beat these staples is to force your opponent to play them to prevent him/her from losing as opposed to allowing your opponent the opportunity and time to weaponize these cards to solidify a win. This gameplan plays into the proactive tendencies the format is being pushed towards. It also changes the playstyle that the deck was previously built towards, which also changes the application and value of the slots in the deck.
I started by piloting the original list, which took quite a few lumps in those first games (it took a while to get the rust off, no pun intended). If you need to find the original list, it can be found here. After having played a solid number of games, I have finally settled on a direction strong and consistent enough to guide the deck towards.
Bolas's Citadel - I feel that Bolas's Citadel is a build-around card for this deck. As a cog-based deck, the life payment is negligible for almost half of our artifacts which are mana rocks or 0-1 cost artifacts. However, our deck makes the sacrifice ability very relevant. It plays very well with Magister's Sphinx, which resets and opponent's life to 10, where Bolas's Citadel just finishes the opponent from there. Sharuum has multiple ways to gain life, which allows us to get additional mileage out if the Citadel if needed.
Smothering Tithe - I've spoken about this card previously, but I'll reiterate my points:
It generates free artifact permanents for the deck, making it a "must answer". Tithe serves as ramp if played early, easies color requirements and has brutal synergizes with many cards in the deck.
For this update, I will be focusing on the synergies between Magister's Sphinx, Bolas's Citadel and Smothering Tithe as the compass guiding my decisions for the deck, as the synergies that branch between these 3 cards, and independent from these 3 cards, feel like a strong enough base to retune the deck's engines around. That is not to say this is the best course for updating and improving the deck... time will tell whether this is the case. I do feel though, that this is a solid foundation for moving forward with credible ideas for improving the deck.
Here is my latest Sharuum update:
Spells - 65
Creatures (10)
(4) Phyrexian Metamorph
(5) Kudoltha Forgemaster
(5) Karn, Silver Golem
(6) Sharuum the Hegemon
(6) Noxious Gearhulk (new)
(6) Steel Hellkite (revisited)
(6) Marionette Master (new)
(7) Magister Sphinx
(7) Myr Battlephere
(8) Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Mana Rocks - 14
Cog Mana Rocks - 8
(0) Lion's Eye Diamond
(0) Lotus Bloom
(0) Mana Crypt
(0) Mox Diamond
(0) Mox Tantalite (new)
(0) Mox Opal
(0) Mana Vault
(1) Sol Ring
Non- Cog Rocks - 6
(2) Azorius Signet
(2) Dimir Signet
(2) Grim Monolith
(2) Orzhov Signet (revisited)
(3) Coalition Relic (revisited)
(5) Gilded Lotus
Draw Effects - 6
(3) Day's Undoing (new)
(3) Timetwister
(3) Windfall
(4) Whispering Madness
(5) Memory Jar
(6) Time Spiral (revisited)
Tutors - 6
(1) Entomb
(1) Vampiric Tutor
(2) Artificer's Intuition
(2) Demonic Tutor
(2) Transmute Artifact
(3) Intuition
Cog-Based Utility - 10
(0) Tormod's Crypt
(1) Aether Spellbomb
(1) Altar of the Brood (revisited)
(1) Dispeller's Capsule
(1) Executioner's Capsule
(1) Expedition Map
(1) Nihil Spellbomb (revisited)
(1) Sensei's Divining Top
(1) Skullclamp
(1) Voyager's Staff
Additional Utility Artifacts - 3
(2) Sword of The Meek
(3) Crucible of Worlds
(3) Ensnaring Bridge (revisited)
Resource Conversion Engines- 8
(2) Thopter Foundry
(2) Time Sieve
(4) Clock of Omens (revisited)
(4) Smothering Tithe (new)
(4) Tawnos's Coffin
(4) Trading Post
(6) Bolas's Citadel (new)
(6) Salvaging Station
Spell-Based Recursion - 3
(5) Unburial Rites
(6) Open the Vaults
(7) Roar of Reclamation
Spell-Based Removal - 3
(2) Cyclonic Rift (new)
(3) Bitter Ordeal (revisited)
(7) All is Dust
Planeswalkers - 2
(5) Tezerret the Seeker
(7) Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Lands - 35
5-Color Lands- 6
City of Brass
Command Tower
Mana Confluence
Reflecting Pool
Spire of Industry
Tarnished Citadel
Artifact Lands (Cog Lands)- 4
Ancient Den
Darksteel Citadel
Seat of the Synod
Vault of Whispers
Fetch Engine - 9
Flooded Strand
Godless Shrine
Hallowed Fountain
Marsh Flats
Polluted Delta
Scrubland
Tundra
Underground Sea
Watery Grave
Filter Lands - 3
Fetid Heath
Mystic Gate
Sunken Ruins
Utility Lands - 9
Academy Ruins
Buried Ruin
Cavern of Souls
Emergence Zone (new)
Geir-Reach Sanitarium (should be Bazaar)
Blast Zone
Inventor's Fair
Strip Mine
Mirror Pool (revisited)
Ramp Lands - 5
Ancient Tomb -f
City of Traitors
Crystal Vein
Gemstone Cavern -f
Mishra's Workshop
Salvaging the Station Engine: I've needed to reevaluate the engine Components, consolidate what I could and get rid off what was no longer necessary.
Mox Tantalite - Strict upgrade to Lotus Petal, which was the weakest mana rock in the list. Mox Tantalite is now the third mana rock that can combo with Karn, Silver Golem and Salvaging Station to create infinite death triggers for the deck.
Altar of the Brood - With the popularity and revitalization of library based combo strategies (Protean Hulk, Zur, Arcum, Yisan, and now Prime Speaker Vannifar) I chose Altar as an easily tutorable way to threaten an infinite (via mill) while being very serviceable in breaking up opposing infinite combos. As it increased the lethality of graveyard based decks, I've added a second graveyard hate piece in Nihil Spellbomb to compensate.
Elixir of Immortality - Was cut as the deck is no longer looking to prolong games to outgrind the opponent. As such, using Elixir to protect specific combo pieces from timely graveyard hate is a bridge too far and so it's been cut.
Voltaic Key - This one was a tough cut. It's a cog and so it plugs in with the engine, but like Venser, a one time untap doesn't do enough for enough games, and so it has been cut for Clock of Omens, which has been putting in more work.
Recoupling Combo Engines:
Thopter / Sword Combo - Generates life and permanents for Bolas's Citadel, and still can fog combat steps and threaten life totals with enough mana.
Time Sieve - Can generate free turns via Smothering Tithe, plugs into Thopter/Sword combo to end games, great lightning rod for targeted artifact hate.
Clock of Omens - Creates tons of mana with Smothering Tithe without losing the treasure, helps Salvaging Station and Tawnos's coffing blink creatures multiple times in a turn
Tawnos's Coffin - Still amazing at rebuilding your board with your commander, blinkable creature suite has been tweaked to work better with Citadel
Trading Post - Smothering Tithe created the mana and fodder to make TP more efficient, gets better with Clock of Omens
Salvaging Station - Still amazing at generating permanents for the deck, and recycling utility permanents to disrupt opponents. Cogs used for the engine are easy to play via Citadel and Station helps rebuy those permanents.
Cultivating the Draw Engine:
With the focus on Smothering Tithe, I am choosing to use Draw 7s as my defacto card advantage spells. Smothering Tithe will grow me free lotus petals, while Clock of Omens allows me to empty my hand if I have a few mana rocks at my disposal. Additionally, overlapping multiple twister effects will help in protecting my graveyard from incidental hate. The spellbombs go a long way with the draw 7s as they will tuck whatever they hit back into that player's library, where it is harder for most decks to access, and the synergy between them and Cyclonic Rift is too good to pass up. So far, these options have been mostly better: there have been times where I've missed the binning effect of cards like Thirst for Knowledge and Fact or Fiction, but the benefits have been very good.
Toy Soldiers: The creature suite in the deck has also been modified to plug into the value engines and game plan of the deck. I have now gone to 10 creatures in the deck.
Phyrexian Metamorph - The all-star if the deck, metamorph plays star roles in multiple engines, while also doubling as my opponent's best artifact ir creature, Magister Sphinx #2 or another jet in the airforce plan.
Kudoltha Forgemaster - Smothering Tithe makes free sac fodder for him, and he helps Tutor for the other half of many of your engine pieces. Super strong.
Karn, Silver Golem - Everything discussed in the Karn clinic is still relevant today. We can now include "efficiently destroys treasure" to that section.
Noxious Gearhulk - Replaces duplicant in this slot. The life gain is helpful in a pinch. Menace can also close out close games
Steel Hellkite - Helps contain boards which has become increasingly important now that treasure is so easy to come by.
Marionette Master - Older card that's gotten a new look. Marionette Master creates free permanents for Bolas's Citadel, but the counters can also drain opposing life totals with Citadel. Citadel sacrificing 10 artifacts with a Marionette Master on the table with 3 +1/+1 counters will drain a player for 40. Also remember, Tawnos's coffing can not only create more servos, it can also force Marionette Master to accumulate additional +1/+1 counters.
Myr Battlephere - Efficiently makes artifact permanents for Citadel and can threaten to kill anyone Magister Sphinx has sneezed at. Due to updated damage rules, you can no longer swing at a player/planeswalker and burn out a second planeswalker with the triggered damage: it all goes to the attacked player / permenant.
Sphinx of the Steel Wind - For those times when a games devolves into a dragged-knuckle, no-holds barred, on-board fist fight, accept no substitutes.
What's been cut:
Mind's Eye - Because the faster pace of the format and the increased number of "must answer" cards, it is dangerous to sit back and rely on stalling out your opponent's turns to refill your hand. As such, I've pulled Mind's Eye from the list for more effective cards.
Venser, the Sojourner - Venser's main use was to blink permanents, which worked great with Sharuum, but more commonly, allowed you to untap your tapped mana rocks, especially those that dont untap as usual. The minus ability was also great when you've has the time to create an army of thopters to kill a player. We don't have the time to make the second ability useful, and a one-time blink ability isnt impactful enough, so it's also cheering the deck on from the sidelines.
Karn Liberated - Has since been replaced by Ugin, which is a much better sweeper, and has a more relevant ultimate.
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas - Due to the changes in deck construction, this Tez doesn't hit enough of your bombs consistently enough to warrant the slot. Also, since we run fewer planeswalkers, it's less relevant to make the 5/5 body to protect them. It's still a solid card, and I can definately see it making it's way back into the deck if some new printings allow us to make a multiple minor tweaks to the deck.
Rings of Brighthearth - Rings is a card that allowed our loop engines to be kicked into overdrive. For that to happen, we needed time to pair it with those engines and abilities. It gave additional value to our value engines. With the amount of efficient artifact hate available, we dont have the time to sit back and milk Rings for value. As such, it's taking a back seat to better utility cards for now.
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
I am not convinced about Marionette Master over Sculpting Steel or Disciple of the Vault. The master isnt an artifact itself so has limited interactivity with the rest of your deck. You've also minimized the clone options for the Sharuum loop. If you want to move away from that interaction then OK, but maybe its time to cut Bitter Ordeal.
Both modes of Mirrodin Besieged are great for this deck. The first is more gas in the tank, and the second outright kills people; rapidly with Time Sieve
Thanks to take the time to write your update reports and share them with us.
These post are a gold mine and have shaped my EDH playstyle even with other Commanders.
After reading this last update, a few questions come to my mind:
Mox Tantalite – Isn't this rock too slow? It's a bit contradictive with what you said about the speed of the format. I can understand for Lotus Bloom because you are rewarded with 3 manas instead of only 1. Are you totally sold with Mox Tantalite?
Elixir of Immortality – Can still generate lot of life with Clock of Omens by stacking multiple activation on the stack. Good for Citadel. Did you consider this aspect of the Elixir?
Teferi's Protection – I see you were playing this card and removed it. Did you removed it because you are playing too many wheel effects? Or was it mediocre at protecting your board and your life?
Blast Zone – Has Blast Zone proven more useful than any other utility lands? I've the feeling it's too slow. What do you intend to destroy with it?
Would you consider the following six cards?
Tezzeret, Master of the Bridge – All his modes are useful to us. His +2 is damn powerful with Smothering Tithe out, and we need life for Bolas's Citadel. He can also protect himself by landing a free artifact creature thanks to his static ability. I am actually testing him with good results.
Urza, Lord High Artificer – He turns our cogs into manarocks, creates a big token, and is a wincon by himself if you manage to generate infinite mana. With him, you can use the treasure tokens without having to sacrifice them. Urza gives the vibe of a Tolarian Academy, but probably the Engine does not interact enough with him.
Mystic Forge – Seems a good backup for the Citadel plan.
Notion Thief/Narset, Parter of Veils – With all these wheel effects, wouldn't these two cards being auto-includes?
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@serrasin:
Wouldn't Mirrodin Besieged risky for your graveyard? If your meta finally knows you are playing this card, wouldn't they always exile your graveyard at each opportunity regardless other opponents?
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Other notes:
Voltaic Key/Manifold Key – I'm playing Clock of Omens since the beginning of time I built a Sharuum Engine deck, and I can't resolve myself to remove the key. From a personal point of view, I'm convincing myself to consider it a manarock, since it can generate positive mana in combination with 6 or 7 other manarocks (those adding 2+ manas). It's so needed for Mana Vault and Grim Monolith (and Basalt Monolith, if you play it). It's also fetchable with Artificer's Intuition and reccurrable with Salvaging Station, which Clock isn't.
Noxious Gearhulk < Duplicant – According to me, the latter is superior due to the exile effect... but I play both!
Artifact Lands – I don't play them because I hate loosing -also- some lands and my manarocks during an artifact boardwipe. What are your experiences with this situation?
Fetchlands – I'm playing 7 of them and removed the Filterlands (and the Signets). They help shuffle the library for Sensei's Divining Top and Bolas's Citadel.
Rings of Brighthearth – Seems to have gained extra value in my list with the extra fetchlands and the new Tezz. But I've the feeling it's winmoOore.
Even if you don't have a yard when it comes into play, the other mode is still great. The only downside is that it's an enchantment.
Can't imagine how it can be good with [[Smothering Tithe]] and [[Thopter Foundry]]
I haven't added Bolas's Citadel to my deck but I may to my build. I tend to run a more competitive build of Sharuum, though I have been wanting to slow down my deck to be more fun and not get hated out so quickly lol.
Meanwhile, I got the time to test the Bolas's Citadel. It's bonkers! Really strong with our many 0- and 1-cmc artifacts.
I love Mox Tantalite, but I definitely don’t cast it from hand. It is an excellent acceleration piece that works within the Salvaging Station shell. It is tutorable with Artificer’s Intuition, gives you all the benefits of the Lotus Petal loops, but can be used more than once, unlike Lotus Petal. Much better target for the value blink on Sharuum.
I saw the line, but it was never one of the more optimal uses I have seen once Citadel was in the deck. If I found myself going off with Citadel, using those finite untaps to gain life to then burn on Citadel casts was just not an efficient use of those resources in any game I had played.
I wish I could play it, but just didn’t have the space.
One of the reasons I love Sharuum is because of the high colorless count, which allows me to squeeze more utility lands into the manabase without affecting my ability to play my spells. Blast Zone looks super good on paper, but I have yet to find a board state that it has wrecked. The idea for its inclusion was that you’d be able to pump more mana into the “XX” ability than most decks, allowing you to squeeze in pinpoint removal without cutting slots. A ratchet bomb is always useful but not really a card you want to cut other cards for. I see it more as an insurance policy. There are times we will have extra mana with no mana sinks, so setting this to the cc’s of other commanders on those turns is a productive use of otherwise wasted mana. Same can be said for pieces you know other kick opponent’s cards & commanders into hyperdrive.
All the aforementioned cards are definitely build-arounds that could be incorporated into Sharuum, but don’t necessarily mesh well with each other (some do, others don’t). Here are my thoughts for the 5 you listed…
Tez, Master of the Bridge: I though this one would be an auto-include but it didn’t work out that way, but it’s not because he isn’t good. He is a card that wants to be in a deck that is more artifact-centric than a deck with a ton of wheel effects. He’s a great card, but not for the specific take on Sharuum I’m using, which is heavier on non-artifact spells than my previous lists. I would love to see your list so I could see the micro-interactions with him and other pieces.
Urza, Lord High Artificer: I build my specific list before he was spoiled. He is a beast, and adding him would have required an immediate retool at a time where I’ve been making extensive notes on the wheel list to compare to other divergent Sharuum builds. Inclusion would likely push me to abandon Smothering Tithe for a much more streamlined artifact-centric list, moreso than my previous ones, and possibly abandon parts of the Salvaging Station engine (while possibly creating infinite mana with other parts of that same engine). (Please note that I am creating this post after Paradox Engine was banned from EDH, so my comments reflect what I imagine the deck could look like after the ban, not before.)
Mystic Forge: Another ridiculous printing for the deck, which would require yet another retool to truly abuse the deck in a way that got it restricted in Vintage. I love this card, and it is everything that Mind’s eye wanted to be and more, and at a discounted CMC.
Notion Thief/Narset, Parter of Veils: These 2 cards would be amazing in a wheel list, but if I was going to run them, I’d run them together instead of trying to miser one in the deck, as that would be what the deck would be aiming to do to control the table. As it stands, I think Mystic Forge is more compact and degenerate at its best than this package + wheels, requiring just as many pieces which would be easier to protect, more easily recurrable, and would share more synergy with the rest of the deck.
Other notes:
I understand how you feel and I feel much the same way. However, due to the space constraints of a wheel-centric deck, if you chose to go that route, you don’t have enough slots to accommodate identical effects.
I have been going back and forth between running one and both myself.
Hands down, I love them and when you get Salvaging station on board and the mana to animate S.S., you can very likely kill the table. I find them to be well worth the risk.
I have been running 3, and it’s not because I don’t have the full set. I run the filterlands, but that’s because I also run the 7 and 8 drop sphinxes, and in my playgroups, the beatdown plan can be relevant. More recently, the ability to reset an opponent to 10 and kill off a Citadel activation, cast a Roar of Rec. and do it again, has been a little too spicy for me to pass up the filterlands just yet. Also, if you find that you’re getting stuck on not casting cards off citadel, find your top and pay 1 life to draw I, clearing it off the top of the deck.
It definitely is more win-more. I like it when the environment is more grindy, as if helps you edge out a ton of value, but it requires time and mana to do so. If you play with very grindy play-groups, definitely play it, but it gets worse as the average power level of your table goes up and the average kill turn goes down.
Now that I've gotten a feel for the ups and downs of a wheel-based list, I will be rebuilding Sharuum again to compare power level. This next iteration will be a Mystic Forge list. I will be doing this to compare optimizations for Sharuum, but to do so is very time consuming, and I don't get to game multiple times a week like I did years ago (more Daddy duties now), so I apologize if I don't get to respond as quickly as I'd like to.
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
Sharuum used to be my absolute favorite commander when I used to play a lot. I ended up selling out most of my high powered EDH decks to buy into legacy at the time, but now am finding my love for commander again. As a result I've been toying around with the idea of rebuilding this engine Sharuum. I miss all the crazy complex lines that the deck had.
What happened with Krark-Clan Ironworks? It hasn't been mentioned in the last few pages, and I feel like it used to be an integral part of engine va-ruum being able to have explosive mana heavy turns?
LegacyUBRDelverRBU
01 Emry, Lurker of the Loch
02 Scrap Trawler
03 Master Transmuter
04 Phyrexian Metamorph
05 Kuldotha Forgemaster
06 Noxious Gearhulk
07 Myr Battlesphere
08 Filigree Angel
09 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
10 Engineered Explosives
11 Tormod's Crypt
12 Codex Shredder
13 Aether Spellbomb
14 Dispeller's Capsule
15 Elixir of Immortality
16 Executioner's Capsule
17 Expedition Map
18 Manifold Key
19 Nihil Spellbomb
20 Pithing Needle
21 Sensei's Divining Top
22 Treasure Map
23 Witching Well
24 Sword of The Meek
25 Thopter Foundry
26 Oblivion Stone
27 Sculpting Steel
28 Aetherflux Reservoir
29 Trading Post
30 Memory Jar
31 Bolas's Citadel
32 Salvaging Station
34 Lotus Petal
35 Mox Tantalite
36 Mox Amber
37 Mana Vault
38 Sol Ring
39 Azorius Signet
40 Orzhov Signet
41 Dimir Signet
42 Worn Powerstone
43 Artificer's Intuition
44 Search for Azcanta
45 Detention Sphere
46 Unfulfilled Desires
47 Mirrodin Besieged
48 Smothering Tithe
49 Enlightened Tutor
50 Entomb
51 Frantic Search
52 Thirst for Knowledge
53 Fact or Fiction
54 Ancient Excavation
55 Careful Study
56 Scheming Symmetry
57 Ideas Unbound
58 Merciless Eviction
59 Danse of the Manse
60 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
61 Tezzeret the Seeker
62 Venser, the Sojourner
63 Tezzeret, Master of the Bridge
64 Dromar's Cavern
65 Arcane Sanctum
66 Command Tower
67 Sunken Ruins
68 Mystic Gate
69 Fetid Heath
70 Watery Grave
71 Hallowed Fountain
72 Godless Shrine
73 Drowned Catacomb
74 Glacial Fortress
75 Isolated Chapel
76 Bad River
77 Flood Plain
78 Bojuka Bog
79 Darksteel Citadel
80 Vault of Whispers
81 Seat of the Synod
82 Ancient Den
83 Geier Reach Sanitarium
84 Cephalid Coliseum
85 Sanctum of Eternity
86 Academy Ruins
87 Buried Ruin
88 Inventors' Fair
89 Swamp
90 Swamp
91 Island
92 Island
93 Island
94 Island
95 Island
96 Island
97 Plains
98 Plains
99 Plains
From the new set I have been happy with Witching Well, Emry, Lurker of the Loch and Dance of the Manse.
Witching Well has been an excellent Salvaging Station target. There has even been a few occasions when I have found it's second ability useful.
Emry, Lurker of the Loch is not so helpful with Lotus Bloom and Mox Tantalite, and the mill part has made me sad a couple of times, but it plays almost like having a second Salvaging Station.
Dance of the Manse replaced Open the Vaults. There is enough artifact abuse in my meta that giving my opponents back their own stuff has been a real issue. I generally don't need everything in my graveyard back when I played Open the Vaults. I was usually only after a couple of combo pieces that had been removed. Keeping thing's one sided with the option to return my enchantments makes this a very solid card.
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009