I just picked up a copy of Heroes vs. Monsters (mostly for the Sun Titan and Anax and Cymede) and was wondering if Polukranos might be a worthwhile addition to my Omnath deck.
I can see it being essentially a green Plague Wind with the amount of mana you can put into it with Omnath. Or just being a nice big beater.
He seems...ok. He might occasionally be an asymmetrical board wipe and in bigger games (we do a lot of 3 player games here) that could be pretty good. But as far as my meta goes, I don't think he is as good or better than anything else I currently run.
I also have a tendency to not like things that are just a beater. He might get a playtest but more than likely I won't.
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He seems...ok. He might occasionally be an asymmetrical board wipe and in bigger games (we do a lot of 3 player games here) that could be pretty good. But as far as my meta goes, I don't think he is as good or better than anything else I currently run.
I also have a tendency to not like things that are just a beater. He might get a playtest but more than likely I won't.
Since I have one I'll try to play test him on Wednesday and tell you how it goes. I'll try to force him out with my creature tutors and such. Hopefully I'll get to at least see how he might work over the long term in one or two games.
Since I have one I'll try to play test him on Wednesday and tell you how it goes. I'll try to force him out with my creature tutors and such. Hopefully I'll get to at least see how he might work over the long term in one or two games.
I wish he was re-usable. Yea, just keep me updated on how he plays.
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I'd be surprised if this hasn't come up before, but wouldn't it be better to run Snow-Covered Forests since you're running Extraplanar Lens? Or is that a strategic choice so it doesn't get blown up as much?
Would Spine of Ish Sah be any good in the deck? Unfortunately it tends to demand a second slot for a sac outlet. Phyrexia's Core is a common one, but there are plenty of other options.
"The distance between genius and insanity... Is measured only by success."
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
I'd be surprised if this hasn't come up before, but wouldn't it be better to run Snow-Covered Forests since you're running Extraplanar Lens? Or is that a strategic choice so it doesn't get blown up as much?
Would Spine of Ish Sah be any good in the deck? Unfortunately it tends to demand a second slot for a sac outlet. Phyrexia's Core is a common one, but there are plenty of other options.
People here run Snow Covered.
Sakiko is more cute than it is good.
Spine is ok, but I don't find myself needing to answer things very often. My answer is to kill people, and it works.
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Since I finally want to start playing Commander (I come from Legacy) I read a lot about that format for the last couple of days and I ended up wanting to build an Omnath Commander deck so badly.
So I stumbled across your deck.
At first glance it looks amazing and I think I will take your deck as a basis.
I perfectly understand that this deck can do so much and Omnath is not the one and only wincon here but still i have doubts about one thing: protection.
In the environment where I play (sometimes a game store but most of the time with a buddy) everybody runs heavy removal and as far as I have read about the Commander format it's the same there.
So what I really worry about is all my crucial cards being instantly destroyed.
As I already wrote I know that this deck can win without some of the crucial cards but I am 100% sure that in the moment I cast Omnath, Rofellos or a fatty they will be destroyed.
The same will be true for the important enchantments for mana generation.
I read that you prefer to smash your opponents instead of putting much effort in protecting your permanents but you probably agree that we will never be able to cast the expensive spells without having reliable mana acceleration on the board.
Well, I am looking forward to build this deck and I hope that my fun will not be so strongly spoiled by my opponent's removal and disruption.
Anyways, this is a great primer!
Did you play Omnath Commander lately?
Do you think it is possible to put a table on the first page where you sort the cards for their function (e.g. mana accel, card draw, removal, etc.)? That would be great!
Since I finally want to start playing Commander (I come from Legacy) I read a lot about that format for the last couple of days and I ended up wanting to build an Omnath Commander deck so badly.
So I stumbled across your deck.
At first glance it looks amazing and I think I will take your deck as a basis.
I perfectly understand that this deck can do so much and Omnath is not the one and only wincon here but still i have doubts about one thing: protection.
In the environment where I play (sometimes a game store but most of the time with a buddy) everybody runs heavy removal and as far as I have read about the Commander format it's the same there.
So what I really worry about is all my crucial cards being instantly destroyed.
As I already wrote I know that this deck can win without some of the crucial cards but I am 100% sure that in the moment I cast Omnath, Rofellos or a fatty they will be destroyed.
The same will be true for the important enchantments for mana generation.
I read that you prefer to smash your opponents instead of putting much effort in protecting your permanents but you probably agree that we will never be able to cast the expensive spells without having reliable mana acceleration on the board.
Well, I am looking forward to build this deck and I hope that my fun will not be so strongly spoiled by my opponent's removal and disruption.
Anyways, this is a great primer!
Did you play Omnath Commander lately?
Do you think it is possible to put a table on the first page where you sort the cards for their function (e.g. mana accel, card draw, removal, etc.)? That would be great!
One important thing is the size of your table. The more people at your table the more chances someone is going to have what they need to disrupt you. We play mostly three player games which I personally like the most.
Since you say that you will be playing mostly with your buddy, I assume most of your games will be 1v1. Something I always stress when someone wants to use my one of decks as a launch point is that all my decks are tuned to what fits my meta and that they should eventually adapt the deck to their meta.
So for me personally, I never have much problem with removal. I know what removal spells to expect, play around them (or through them) accordingly but if you feel that in your meta you need more resilience and protection then I strongly encourage you to adapt.
I've been playing this deck for a long time and one thing that's surprised me is how difficult the deck can be for someone to play correctly. About two years ago I got to the point where I had enough decks to lend out some to people who didn't have them. Omnath was my go to since to me it seemed easy to pilot. But people just didn't seem to realize the full potential.
I think it's because this deck can almost be considered a combo deck. You try and have one very large turn in which you win and they just couldn't see that they could win that turn. So I encourage you to play the deck often as it might take some practice to get good at.
As far as some of the cards you mentioned Asceticism is pretty good. I removed it because I generally win before it became relevant.
Nim Deathmantle is good protection for Omnath. And I know a lot of people like to use flash enablers to protect Omnath like Yeva, Nature's Herald or Veldaken Orrey. There's also a land but the name escapes me. Whispersilk Cloak is one of the better shroud options because it makes Omnath more threatening.
Bramblecrush and Acidic Slime are both really good as well. I've thought about adding Bramblecrush for more removal but I haven't really needed it so far. But it's on a list of possible includes in case some one brings a deck I need new tech for.
Last time I brought Omnath out was Wednesday. I only played one time before bringing out another deck. I won on turn 4 against talrand. He tapped out to play Talrand and I knew he doesn't have FoW.
I post from my phone currently since I have no internet (Just the 3G) so updating decks (and even posting) can be a bit of a pain, but if I get around a computer sometime I can definitely do that.
I wish you luck with your deck. Omnath is my favorite deck (and card) and if you're anything like me, you'll love him. If you have any more questions or just want to discuss card choices, I'm more than happy too.
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thanks for your answer!
Now I am already in the process of building my deck.
What I know for sure is that most of the time I will be facing a Sliver deck (commander will be Sliver Overlord).
Considering this what do you think about: Constant Mists Elephant Grass (the green propaganda)?
Do you have other suggestions for playing against aggro decks?
In this thread you once said that your deck sometimes feels like a combo deck - I like that! It seems that you have the optinons to play more combo-like or more aggro-like. That seems pretty versatile!
thanks for your answer!
Now I am already in the process of building my deck.
What I know for sure is that most of the time I will be facing a Sliver deck (commander will be Sliver Overlord).
Considering this what do you think about: Constant Mists ElepIt Grass (the green propaganda)?
Do you have other suggestions for playing against aggro decks?
In this thread you once said that your deck sometimes feels like a combo deck - I like that! It seems that you have the optinons to play more combo-like or more aggro-like. That seems pretty versatile!
The deck is definitely very versatile And can win an assortment of ways but the most common is a very large turn in which you close up the game. Usually that turn includes some sort of draw engine such as Momentous Fall or Greater Good, a land untapper or doubler such as Rude Awakening or Doubling Cube to keep up the steam. This usually goes into more draw or ways to produce mana until you can win the game with Craterhoof Behemoth, Avenger of Zendikar and Concordant Crossroads. Or just do a really big G-wave. Or Rofellos + Staff of Domination.
One of the hardest things about piloting the deck is realizing when you can win. Also always keep in mind that the most important cards in your deck are the ones that draw you cards. It's what keeps the deck running.
As far as aggro goes, the best aggro decks I have played against are Krenko (mostly a combo style aggro deck aiming to win between turns 3-6) and Edric (typical Edric list). Most aggro decks aren't very powerful but these two tend to be very explosive. Generally I just try and be faster. I have pretty excellent win rates against them but it's usually just a race to see who can win faster.
Not knowing the Sliver list it would be hard to say. I don't think you should have a problem out speeding them. I'd mostly be worried about Harmonic Sliver and Necrotic Sliver.
Because of greens limited and narrow removal, I tend to not run a whole lot of it and what I do run tends to be very versatile like Beast Within and Karen Liberated or hate for a specific threat like Predator, Flagship for Iona and Kaalia. So generally the best answer to how to beat a specific deck is to just be faster.
I definitely encourage tinkering with the list though as certain cards may not be suited for your meta. Perhaps your playgroup doesn't like the card or the card may just be a dud in your meta (like Silklash Spider in a group with little fliers).
Of the two cards you mentioned Elephant Grass would be my suggestion.
Also a card in the deck that is will be really hard for your friend to handle is Hall of Gemstone.
Anyways I think I've rambled long enough. I haven't been to sleep yet so I hope this makes sense and is coherent.
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Some more cards to consider.
What do you think about: Glimpse of Nature for card draw on the turn you go off? Magus of the Candelabra for another land untapping effect? Gaea's Blessing for recursion or disrupting an opponent's graveyard dependened strategy?
Another question:
you use some ramp cards that also may ramp your opponents (such as Vernal Bloom or Gauntlet of Power). Has this ever had a very negative impact on your games? Do you think the deck will lose much of its consitency when not running these two cards?
Some more cards to consider.
What do you think about: Glimpse of Nature for card draw on the turn you go off? Magus of the Candelabra for another land untapping effect? Gaea's Blessing for recursion or disrupting an opponent's graveyard dependened strategy?
Another question:
e some ramp cards that also may ramp your opponents (such as Vernal Bloom or Gauntlet of Power). Has this ever had a very negative impact on your games? Do you think the deck will lose much of its consitency when not running these two cards?
Thanks again for your answers!
Glimpse is a great draw spell. It works a bit better in more of an elfball shell but it's definitely playable here.
I tried the Magus and he was a bit hit and miss. You absolutely have to have a mana doubler for it to have an effect where as the other land untappers you don't need one.
We only have a few graveyard shenanigan lists in my meta and the best one is probably Jund combo deck, that uses a lot of infinite combos and grave hate hoses it. That being said, I'm much faster as it takes him longer to set up. If graveyards are a problem you also have the options of Relic of Progenitus and Tormod's Crypt.
With the cards like Extraplanar Lens, Vernal Bloom, and Gauntlet of Power, you just have to time it right. If you know it will benefit you to play it now, do so, if not, then wait. Two color decks (besides mono-G) decks are really the only ones who will a very noticeable effect from this. I personally have never had them backfire. I do think it will hurt consistency. How much, I don't know. But doublers are pretty important. And they are huge targets so I run as many as is reasonable.
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2) Cheaper Cards (mana-wise): with my "alpha version" I drew a lot of sample hands and kept drawing cards for about 4 or 5 more turns and I had the feeling that for the first 4 or 5 turns I could almost do nothing because all the spells in my hand were too expensive to cast.
So I thought about cheaper versions and exchanged: Llanowar Druid for Patron of the Orochi Nature's Lore for Wood Elves Ring of Three Wishes for Tooth and Nail Regrowth for Recollect (I think you already mentioned somewhere that you also would like to run Regrowth)
You already explained that you prefer Squall Line over Hurricane for its speed. Is it really that relevant?
3) Optimize tutors: I exchanged Ring of Three Wishes for Tooth and Nail also because there are already so many tutors for creatures. With the ring I can tutor for non-creature cards (e.g. removal or a wincon when I need it).
I also exchanged Natural Order for Defense of the Heart because it has an immediate impact on the game whereas Defense is a full turn exposed to removal or effects wich will prevent it from triggering (e.g. if my opponent has a sac outlet). Believe me: I really like the Defense and would like to use both but card slots are already very tight.
4) Personal preference: I exchanged Lightning Greaves for Swiftfoot Boots: the greaves have a cheaper equip cost and I do not see any spell that targets my creatures. Desert Twister for Lurking Predators: I do not like the predators at all (no immediate impact on the game, exposed to removal and too dependant on luck) so I put in more removal.
I also want to focus on card draw and removal.
What do you think about Snake Umbra and Keen Sense for more card draw?
I think what I will work on most will be finding cheaper versions of cards.
Do you have any suggestions?
On the other hand: I have never played a commander game yet and I know that it will be much slower but still I think not being able to do anything relevant on my 5th turn is kind of bad.
I am already so eager to try my Omnath deck!
I wish you merry christmas and some nice holidays!
I feel like I should mention that the deck in the OP isn't my exact current list. As I've mentioned it's hard for me to update the list because I can only do so from my phone and that is a pain.
Some of the cards you want to add or cut have already been. Such as cutting Genesis or adding Natural Order.
I find it stange you're having trouble doing anything relevant before turn . As I'm usually done with the game by turn 5 unless someone had some very well placed removal. One thing that helps is that we Partial Paris mulligan which allows me to throw away the things that will take me too long to cast. Even if you don't use partial it's important to know when to mull.
Snake Umbra and Keen Sense are kind of slow and fairly low powered. Green still has some better draw and you can look to colorless too if you need more draw. Stuff like Hunter's Insight or Mind's Eye
Erratic Portal seems fine. It might help you combo out even more consistently,?
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Results:
The first time I played this deck against my friend's Sliver deck I won 9 out of 10 games. I was really shocked - in a positive way!
My friend is someone who hates losing so after a while he came up with an Azusa deck and I was like: Uuuhhh... that's lame.
This week I played for the first time two multiplayer games (against 3 other guys).
First match I won with a big Squall Line after having saced Omnath to a Momentous Fall.
We could not finish the second game because the shop closed but I was in a dominating board position and think I would have won.
So, thanks again for these great ideas for an Omnath deck!
He seems...ok. He might occasionally be an asymmetrical board wipe and in bigger games (we do a lot of 3 player games here) that could be pretty good. But as far as my meta goes, I don't think he is as good or better than anything else I currently run.
I also have a tendency to not like things that are just a beater. He might get a playtest but more than likely I won't.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the awesome Sig.
Currently Playing- EDH
GGGOmnath, Locus of the LifestreamGGG
BBBShirei, Lord of PoniesBBB
UWRasputin Dreamweaver, Russia's Greatest Love MachineUW
UBWZur, Killer of FunUBW
UGWTreva, Princess of CanterlotUGW
RWTajic, Master of the Reverse BladeRW
RRRZirilan, How to Train Your DragonRRR
PDH Decks
Gelectrode
Ascended Lawmage
Blaze Commando
Since I have one I'll try to play test him on Wednesday and tell you how it goes. I'll try to force him out with my creature tutors and such. Hopefully I'll get to at least see how he might work over the long term in one or two games.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
I wish he was re-usable. Yea, just keep me updated on how he plays.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the awesome Sig.
Currently Playing- EDH
GGGOmnath, Locus of the LifestreamGGG
BBBShirei, Lord of PoniesBBB
UWRasputin Dreamweaver, Russia's Greatest Love MachineUW
UBWZur, Killer of FunUBW
UGWTreva, Princess of CanterlotUGW
RWTajic, Master of the Reverse BladeRW
RRRZirilan, How to Train Your DragonRRR
PDH Decks
Gelectrode
Ascended Lawmage
Blaze Commando
I'd be surprised if this hasn't come up before, but wouldn't it be better to run Snow-Covered Forests since you're running Extraplanar Lens? Or is that a strategic choice so it doesn't get blown up as much?
There's a case to be made for Deserted Temple and Wirewood Lodge. They untap Cradle and Rofellos respectively.
Have you given any thought to Sakiko, Mother of Summer? Pretty funny with Omnath.
Would Spine of Ish Sah be any good in the deck? Unfortunately it tends to demand a second slot for a sac outlet. Phyrexia's Core is a common one, but there are plenty of other options.
Karona, Warden of AlcatrazWUBRG
The EPIC EDHWUBRG
Sun Quan Aggro1U
Animar GoodstuffRUG
Horobi MBCB
Medomai NerfWU
Saffi EriksdotterGW
Zur (CF)WUB
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
People here run Snow Covered.
Sakiko is more cute than it is good.
Spine is ok, but I don't find myself needing to answer things very often. My answer is to kill people, and it works.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the awesome Sig.
Currently Playing- EDH
GGGOmnath, Locus of the LifestreamGGG
BBBShirei, Lord of PoniesBBB
UWRasputin Dreamweaver, Russia's Greatest Love MachineUW
UBWZur, Killer of FunUBW
UGWTreva, Princess of CanterlotUGW
RWTajic, Master of the Reverse BladeRW
RRRZirilan, How to Train Your DragonRRR
PDH Decks
Gelectrode
Ascended Lawmage
Blaze Commando
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the awesome Sig.
Currently Playing- EDH
GGGOmnath, Locus of the LifestreamGGG
BBBShirei, Lord of PoniesBBB
UWRasputin Dreamweaver, Russia's Greatest Love MachineUW
UBWZur, Killer of FunUBW
UGWTreva, Princess of CanterlotUGW
RWTajic, Master of the Reverse BladeRW
RRRZirilan, How to Train Your DragonRRR
PDH Decks
Gelectrode
Ascended Lawmage
Blaze Commando
Since I finally want to start playing Commander (I come from Legacy) I read a lot about that format for the last couple of days and I ended up wanting to build an Omnath Commander deck so badly.
So I stumbled across your deck.
At first glance it looks amazing and I think I will take your deck as a basis.
I perfectly understand that this deck can do so much and Omnath is not the one and only wincon here but still i have doubts about one thing: protection.
In the environment where I play (sometimes a game store but most of the time with a buddy) everybody runs heavy removal and as far as I have read about the Commander format it's the same there.
So what I really worry about is all my crucial cards being instantly destroyed.
As I already wrote I know that this deck can win without some of the crucial cards but I am 100% sure that in the moment I cast Omnath, Rofellos or a fatty they will be destroyed.
The same will be true for the important enchantments for mana generation.
I read that you prefer to smash your opponents instead of putting much effort in protecting your permanents but you probably agree that we will never be able to cast the expensive spells without having reliable mana acceleration on the board.
I think of something in the vein like:
Sylvan Safekeeper
Aspect of Mongoose
Steely Resolve
Asceticism
You already run Bear Umbra so what about Snake Umbra (which can also sometimes draw you cards)?
That Which Was Taken can also be used for non-creature permanents like our enchantments.
There are also some equipments which give shroud or hexproof:
Cloak and Dagger
Lightning Greaves (ok you already use Swiftfoot Boots)
Whispersilk Cloak
Mask of Avacyn
Champion's Helm
Any thoughts?
I am also concerned about the amount of removal.
I see that you already run a lot but what about a bit more:
Desert Twister, Mold Shambler and Bramblecrush can hit Planeswalkers.
Acidic Slime
Creeping Mold?
Well, I am looking forward to build this deck and I hope that my fun will not be so strongly spoiled by my opponent's removal and disruption.
Anyways, this is a great primer!
Did you play Omnath Commander lately?
Do you think it is possible to put a table on the first page where you sort the cards for their function (e.g. mana accel, card draw, removal, etc.)? That would be great!
UGTatyova, Benthic DruidUG | RBRakdos the DefilerRB | RNorin the WaryR | BGThelon of HavenwoodBG
One important thing is the size of your table. The more people at your table the more chances someone is going to have what they need to disrupt you. We play mostly three player games which I personally like the most.
Since you say that you will be playing mostly with your buddy, I assume most of your games will be 1v1. Something I always stress when someone wants to use my one of decks as a launch point is that all my decks are tuned to what fits my meta and that they should eventually adapt the deck to their meta.
So for me personally, I never have much problem with removal. I know what removal spells to expect, play around them (or through them) accordingly but if you feel that in your meta you need more resilience and protection then I strongly encourage you to adapt.
I've been playing this deck for a long time and one thing that's surprised me is how difficult the deck can be for someone to play correctly. About two years ago I got to the point where I had enough decks to lend out some to people who didn't have them. Omnath was my go to since to me it seemed easy to pilot. But people just didn't seem to realize the full potential.
I think it's because this deck can almost be considered a combo deck. You try and have one very large turn in which you win and they just couldn't see that they could win that turn. So I encourage you to play the deck often as it might take some practice to get good at.
As far as some of the cards you mentioned Asceticism is pretty good. I removed it because I generally win before it became relevant.
Nim Deathmantle is good protection for Omnath. And I know a lot of people like to use flash enablers to protect Omnath like Yeva, Nature's Herald or Veldaken Orrey. There's also a land but the name escapes me. Whispersilk Cloak is one of the better shroud options because it makes Omnath more threatening.
Bramblecrush and Acidic Slime are both really good as well. I've thought about adding Bramblecrush for more removal but I haven't really needed it so far. But it's on a list of possible includes in case some one brings a deck I need new tech for.
Last time I brought Omnath out was Wednesday. I only played one time before bringing out another deck. I won on turn 4 against talrand. He tapped out to play Talrand and I knew he doesn't have FoW.
I post from my phone currently since I have no internet (Just the 3G) so updating decks (and even posting) can be a bit of a pain, but if I get around a computer sometime I can definitely do that.
I wish you luck with your deck. Omnath is my favorite deck (and card) and if you're anything like me, you'll love him. If you have any more questions or just want to discuss card choices, I'm more than happy too.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the awesome Sig.
Currently Playing- EDH
GGGOmnath, Locus of the LifestreamGGG
BBBShirei, Lord of PoniesBBB
UWRasputin Dreamweaver, Russia's Greatest Love MachineUW
UBWZur, Killer of FunUBW
UGWTreva, Princess of CanterlotUGW
RWTajic, Master of the Reverse BladeRW
RRRZirilan, How to Train Your DragonRRR
PDH Decks
Gelectrode
Ascended Lawmage
Blaze Commando
thanks for your answer!
Now I am already in the process of building my deck.
What I know for sure is that most of the time I will be facing a Sliver deck (commander will be Sliver Overlord).
Considering this what do you think about:
Constant Mists
Elephant Grass (the green propaganda)?
Do you have other suggestions for playing against aggro decks?
In this thread you once said that your deck sometimes feels like a combo deck - I like that! It seems that you have the optinons to play more combo-like or more aggro-like. That seems pretty versatile!
Another question:
do you prefer Krosan Tusker over Yavimaya Elder?
UGTatyova, Benthic DruidUG | RBRakdos the DefilerRB | RNorin the WaryR | BGThelon of HavenwoodBG
The deck is definitely very versatile And can win an assortment of ways but the most common is a very large turn in which you close up the game. Usually that turn includes some sort of draw engine such as Momentous Fall or Greater Good, a land untapper or doubler such as Rude Awakening or Doubling Cube to keep up the steam. This usually goes into more draw or ways to produce mana until you can win the game with Craterhoof Behemoth, Avenger of Zendikar and Concordant Crossroads. Or just do a really big G-wave. Or Rofellos + Staff of Domination.
One of the hardest things about piloting the deck is realizing when you can win. Also always keep in mind that the most important cards in your deck are the ones that draw you cards. It's what keeps the deck running.
As far as aggro goes, the best aggro decks I have played against are Krenko (mostly a combo style aggro deck aiming to win between turns 3-6) and Edric (typical Edric list). Most aggro decks aren't very powerful but these two tend to be very explosive. Generally I just try and be faster. I have pretty excellent win rates against them but it's usually just a race to see who can win faster.
Not knowing the Sliver list it would be hard to say. I don't think you should have a problem out speeding them. I'd mostly be worried about Harmonic Sliver and Necrotic Sliver.
Because of greens limited and narrow removal, I tend to not run a whole lot of it and what I do run tends to be very versatile like Beast Within and Karen Liberated or hate for a specific threat like Predator, Flagship for Iona and Kaalia. So generally the best answer to how to beat a specific deck is to just be faster.
I definitely encourage tinkering with the list though as certain cards may not be suited for your meta. Perhaps your playgroup doesn't like the card or the card may just be a dud in your meta (like Silklash Spider in a group with little fliers).
Of the two cards you mentioned Elephant Grass would be my suggestion.
Also a card in the deck that is will be really hard for your friend to handle is Hall of Gemstone.
Anyways I think I've rambled long enough. I haven't been to sleep yet so I hope this makes sense and is coherent.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the awesome Sig.
Currently Playing- EDH
GGGOmnath, Locus of the LifestreamGGG
BBBShirei, Lord of PoniesBBB
UWRasputin Dreamweaver, Russia's Greatest Love MachineUW
UBWZur, Killer of FunUBW
UGWTreva, Princess of CanterlotUGW
RWTajic, Master of the Reverse BladeRW
RRRZirilan, How to Train Your DragonRRR
PDH Decks
Gelectrode
Ascended Lawmage
Blaze Commando
What do you think about:
Glimpse of Nature for card draw on the turn you go off?
Magus of the Candelabra for another land untapping effect?
Gaea's Blessing for recursion or disrupting an opponent's graveyard dependened strategy?
Another question:
you use some ramp cards that also may ramp your opponents (such as Vernal Bloom or Gauntlet of Power). Has this ever had a very negative impact on your games? Do you think the deck will lose much of its consitency when not running these two cards?
Thanks again for your answers!
UGTatyova, Benthic DruidUG | RBRakdos the DefilerRB | RNorin the WaryR | BGThelon of HavenwoodBG
Glimpse is a great draw spell. It works a bit better in more of an elfball shell but it's definitely playable here.
I tried the Magus and he was a bit hit and miss. You absolutely have to have a mana doubler for it to have an effect where as the other land untappers you don't need one.
We only have a few graveyard shenanigan lists in my meta and the best one is probably Jund combo deck, that uses a lot of infinite combos and grave hate hoses it. That being said, I'm much faster as it takes him longer to set up. If graveyards are a problem you also have the options of Relic of Progenitus and Tormod's Crypt.
With the cards like Extraplanar Lens, Vernal Bloom, and Gauntlet of Power, you just have to time it right. If you know it will benefit you to play it now, do so, if not, then wait. Two color decks (besides mono-G) decks are really the only ones who will a very noticeable effect from this. I personally have never had them backfire. I do think it will hurt consistency. How much, I don't know. But doublers are pretty important. And they are huge targets so I run as many as is reasonable.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the awesome Sig.
Currently Playing- EDH
GGGOmnath, Locus of the LifestreamGGG
BBBShirei, Lord of PoniesBBB
UWRasputin Dreamweaver, Russia's Greatest Love MachineUW
UBWZur, Killer of FunUBW
UGWTreva, Princess of CanterlotUGW
RWTajic, Master of the Reverse BladeRW
RRRZirilan, How to Train Your DragonRRR
PDH Decks
Gelectrode
Ascended Lawmage
Blaze Commando
(With the christmas holidays I finally have enough time for my commander deck project ).
I now have a "beta version" of my future Omnath deck based on your deck:
1 Omnath, Locus of Mana
LANDS
27 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Mosswort Bridge
1 Homeward Path
1 Winding Canyons
1 Yavimaya Hollow
RAMP
1 Arbor Elf
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Wild Growth
1 Utopia Sprawl
1 Doubling Cube
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Llanowar Druid
1 Nature's Lore
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Cultivate
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Early Harvest
1 Vernal Bloom
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Bear Umbra
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Caged Sun
1 Mana Reflection
1 Boundless Realms
1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1 Crop Rotation
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Natural Order
1 Ring of Three Wishes
DRAW
1 Momentous Fall
1 Greater Good
1 Harmonize
1 Soul's Majesty
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Soul of the Harvest
1 Regal Force
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
REMOVAL
1 Beast Within
1 Predator, Flagship
1 Silklash Spider
1 Duplicant
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Desert Twister
1 Karn Liberated
1 Sylvan Primordial
1 Terastodon
RECURSION
1 Regrowth
1 Eternal Witness
1 Genesis
1 Praetor's Counsel
1 Nim Deathmantle
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Hall of Gemstone
1 Vedalken Orrery
UTILITY/WINCON
1 Concordant Crossroads
1 Sylvan Library
1 Squall Line
1 Genesis Wave
1 Rude Awakening
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
It is extremely similar to your list.
Now I would like to know your opinion about my changes:
1) Utility lands: is there a reason why you run almost no utility lands?
I added:
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx Ramp
Mosswort Bridge Utility
Homeward Path Protection
Winding Canyons Protection
Yavimaya Hollow Protection
As I mentioned earlier I expect a lot of removal so I will run at least the protective lands.
I am not sure about Mosswort Bridge - maybe it can go.
Is Reliquary Tower really that relevant?
2) Cheaper Cards (mana-wise): with my "alpha version" I drew a lot of sample hands and kept drawing cards for about 4 or 5 more turns and I had the feeling that for the first 4 or 5 turns I could almost do nothing because all the spells in my hand were too expensive to cast.
So I thought about cheaper versions and exchanged:
Llanowar Druid for Patron of the Orochi
Nature's Lore for Wood Elves
Ring of Three Wishes for Tooth and Nail
Regrowth for Recollect (I think you already mentioned somewhere that you also would like to run Regrowth)
You already explained that you prefer Squall Line over Hurricane for its speed. Is it really that relevant?
3) Optimize tutors: I exchanged Ring of Three Wishes for Tooth and Nail also because there are already so many tutors for creatures. With the ring I can tutor for non-creature cards (e.g. removal or a wincon when I need it).
I also exchanged Natural Order for Defense of the Heart because it has an immediate impact on the game whereas Defense is a full turn exposed to removal or effects wich will prevent it from triggering (e.g. if my opponent has a sac outlet). Believe me: I really like the Defense and would like to use both but card slots are already very tight.
4) Personal preference: I exchanged
Lightning Greaves for Swiftfoot Boots: the greaves have a cheaper equip cost and I do not see any spell that targets my creatures.
Desert Twister for Lurking Predators: I do not like the predators at all (no immediate impact on the game, exposed to removal and too dependant on luck) so I put in more removal.
I would like to fit in the 3rd Llanowar Elves: Elvish Mystic but in which slot?
Erratic Portal can be nice protection or a recursion engine with Eternal Witness. Maybe instead of Genesis?
Obviously also good with our etb effects of:
Regal Force
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Duplicant
Sylvan Primordial
Terastodon
Avenger of Zendikar
Craterhoof Behemoth
I also want to focus on card draw and removal.
What do you think about Snake Umbra and Keen Sense for more card draw?
I think what I will work on most will be finding cheaper versions of cards.
Do you have any suggestions?
On the other hand: I have never played a commander game yet and I know that it will be much slower but still I think not being able to do anything relevant on my 5th turn is kind of bad.
I am already so eager to try my Omnath deck!
I wish you merry christmas and some nice holidays!
UGTatyova, Benthic DruidUG | RBRakdos the DefilerRB | RNorin the WaryR | BGThelon of HavenwoodBG
Some of the cards you want to add or cut have already been. Such as cutting Genesis or adding Natural Order.
I find it stange you're having trouble doing anything relevant before turn . As I'm usually done with the game by turn 5 unless someone had some very well placed removal. One thing that helps is that we Partial Paris mulligan which allows me to throw away the things that will take me too long to cast. Even if you don't use partial it's important to know when to mull.
Snake Umbra and Keen Sense are kind of slow and fairly low powered. Green still has some better draw and you can look to colorless too if you need more draw. Stuff like Hunter's Insight or Mind's Eye
Erratic Portal seems fine. It might help you combo out even more consistently,?
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the awesome Sig.
Currently Playing- EDH
GGGOmnath, Locus of the LifestreamGGG
BBBShirei, Lord of PoniesBBB
UWRasputin Dreamweaver, Russia's Greatest Love MachineUW
UBWZur, Killer of FunUBW
UGWTreva, Princess of CanterlotUGW
RWTajic, Master of the Reverse BladeRW
RRRZirilan, How to Train Your DragonRRR
PDH Decks
Gelectrode
Ascended Lawmage
Blaze Commando
Just wanted to thank you for this great deck!
It is so incredibly fun to play!
In my last post I talked about some changes I would made but after a few beta tests I reverted to a list that's about 90% like yours :
1 Omnath, Locus of Mana
LANDS
28 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Homeward Path
1 Winding Canyons
1 Dryad Arbor
RAMP
1 Arbor Elf
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Wild Growth
1 Utopia Sprawl
1 Doubling Cube
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Llanowar Druid
1 Nature's Lore
1 Three Visits
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Cultivate
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Early Harvest
1 Vernal Bloom
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Caged Sun
1 Mana Reflection
1 Boundless Realms
1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1 Crop Rotation
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Chord of Calling
1 Natural Order
1 Defense of the Heart
1 Tooth and Nail
DRAW
1 Momentous Fall
1 Greater Good
1 Harmonize
1 Mind's Eye
1 Soul's Majesty
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Soul of the Harvest
1 Collective Unconscious
1 Regal Force
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
REMOVAL
1 Beast Within
1 Bramblecrush
1 Silklash Spider
1 Duplicant
1 Desert Twister
1 Karn Liberated
1 Terastodon
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Nim Deathmantle
1 Regrowth
1 Eternal Witness
PROTECTION
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Hall of Gemstone
1 Vedalken Orrery
UTILITY/WINCON
1 Sylvan Library
1 Squall Line
1 Genesis Wave
1 Rude Awakening
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
Results:
The first time I played this deck against my friend's Sliver deck I won 9 out of 10 games. I was really shocked - in a positive way!
My friend is someone who hates losing so after a while he came up with an Azusa deck and I was like: Uuuhhh... that's lame.
This week I played for the first time two multiplayer games (against 3 other guys).
First match I won with a big Squall Line after having saced Omnath to a Momentous Fall.
We could not finish the second game because the shop closed but I was in a dominating board position and think I would have won.
So, thanks again for these great ideas for an Omnath deck!
Now I am into building a Lazav commander deck...
UGTatyova, Benthic DruidUG | RBRakdos the DefilerRB | RNorin the WaryR | BGThelon of HavenwoodBG
What do you think about Lifeblood Hydra for more Card Draw?
If no one at the table kills it we can force that with Momentous Fall or Greater Good.
UGTatyova, Benthic DruidUG | RBRakdos the DefilerRB | RNorin the WaryR | BGThelon of HavenwoodBG