1. If you want more broken ramp, include Mana Crypt, seriously that card is nuts. You might also want to consider Mana Vault for a quick burst of mana. Both are searchable with Trinket Mage too. In fact, Tezzeret the Seeker is looking pretty good, as he can search for the same things Trinket can, as well as untapping your artifact lands and Mana Vault.
2. Consider maybe Stoneforge Mystic over Stone-Hewer Giant because it comes out much earlier, is recurrable with 'Lark, and searchable with Imperial Recruiter as well.
3. I would cut Unnatural Selection because the Changeling does it better, IMHO.
4. Changeling Hero! First, it's a changeling making it a Sliver, Rebel and Elf. Next, consider that with something like Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero on the board, you can tutor up this creature to save one of your own in response to removal. Then after the fact, put it right back on the bottom.
5. With the amount of tutors in this deck, Intuition seems like it will always get you business cards that will inevitably lead you to what you want in short order.
7. I would definitely try to find room for Eternal Witness somewhere. The effect is so good, and has many synergies in the deck.
8. You don't have that many cheap artifact creatures for Arcum to transmute, so I might suggest Silver Myr (and it's ilk) to fill your ramp need and sac fodder need.
9. Goblin Welder is also surprisingly good, check it out.
As for cuts, I'll leave that to you =p
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1. If you want more broken ramp, include Mana Crypt, seriously that card is nuts. You might also want to consider Mana Vault for a quick burst of mana. Both are searchable with Trinket Mage too. In fact, Tezzeret the Seeker is looking pretty good, as he can search for the same things Trinket can, as well as untapping your artifact lands and Mana Vault.
2. Consider maybe Stoneforge Mystic over Stone-Hewer Giant because it comes out much earlier, is recurrable with 'Lark, and searchable with Imperial Recruiter as well.
3. I would cut Unnatural Selection because the Changeling does it better, IMHO.
4. Changeling Hero! First, it's a changeling making it a Sliver, Rebel and Elf. Next, consider that with something like Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero on the board, you can tutor up this creature to save one of your own in response to removal. Then after the fact, put it right back on the bottom.
5. With the amount of tutors in this deck, Intuition seems like it will always get you business cards that will inevitably lead you to what you want in short order.
7. I would definitely try to find room for Eternal Witness somewhere. The effect is so good, and has many synergies in the deck.
8. You don't have that many cheap artifact creatures for Arcum to transmute, so I might suggest Silver Myr (and it's ilk) to fill your ramp need and sac fodder need.
9. Goblin Welder is also surprisingly good, check it out.
As for cuts, I'll leave that to you =p
Awesome suggestions. I guess I'll go through them 1 by 1.
1) I really really like mana crypt. I'm a little bit worried about the life loss. Its amazing in like vintage obviously and some more aggresive edh decks use it to great effect but even once this deck gets its stuff out, it just starts controlling the board, it doesnt start beating down. I'm definitely going to consider it though.
2) Ya I think that the addition of the recruiter is pretty big in making me think about the mystic. The problem is though that if I take out the giant then i basically have no reason to keep in the toolbox. The point of the giant is that he can tutor up instant speed shroud and indestructibility....I'll think about it though
3) Well the point is not that it does it worse than the changeling but the fact that it also does it. It's just such a powerful effect that to have one searchable by my general and 1 searchable by Zur is good.
4) It seems good but I don't know if its good enough for a spot. Obvoiusly using it in response to a removal spell is cool but then I only end up with is a 4/4 lifelinker...It also only really works with 3 cards...It might be worth a spot, I'm just not sure for what.
5) I agree. Intuition is awesome.
6) It's cool but not really worth a spot. I already have 3 cards that search for any land and 6 that search for some type of lands.
7) Ya....I was thinking about that today. eternal witness is just like mandatory....I don't know what to cut for it....
8) I think I have enough to get something out by the time the dagsson gets out. I have about 30 cards that can get me at least some sort of artifact
9) Goblin welder is cool but I'm not really sure what it does in this deck...Maybe with welder, mindslaver and Volrath's stronghold or something off of an intuition
It can tutor for Harmonic Sliver, Crib Swap, Necrotic Sliver, or Gemhide Sliver.
Personally, I don't like it, because any Threaten effect means that your general is gone forever. For anyone who's unfamiliar, you can steal it, then target itself with it's "gain control of target sliver" effect.
Personally, I think that Sliver Queen for explosive combo kills or Horde of Notions to grind out wins with Crib Swap/Mulldrifter/Shriekmaw would be a better choice. I don't see myself often wanting to tutor with Sliver Overlord. 8 mana for your first tutor seems pretty slow.
It can tutor for Harmonic Sliver, Crib Swap, Necrotic Sliver, or Gemhide Sliver.
Personally, I don't like it, because any Threaten effect means that your general is gone forever. For anyone who's unfamiliar, you can steal it, then target itself with it's "gain control of target sliver" effect.
Personally, I think that Sliver Queen for explosive combo kills or Horde of Notions to grind out wins with Crib Swap/Mulldrifter/Shriekmaw would be a better choice. I don't see myself often wanting to tutor with Sliver Overlord. 8 mana for your first tutor seems pretty slow.
Are you serious? I never thought about using its ability on itself like that. When it deals damage to a player does it count towards being "general damage" or just like a plain creature?
It can tutor for Harmonic Sliver, Crib Swap, Necrotic Sliver, or Gemhide Sliver.
Personally, I don't like it, because any Threaten effect means that your general is gone forever. For anyone who's unfamiliar, you can steal it, then target itself with it's "gain control of target sliver" effect.
Personally, I think that Sliver Queen for explosive combo kills or Horde of Notions to grind out wins with Crib Swap/Mulldrifter/Shriekmaw would be a better choice. I don't see myself often wanting to tutor with Sliver Overlord. 8 mana for your first tutor seems pretty slow.
Sliver Overlord is not at all the main point of this deck. But, what it does it provides a win condition. The ability to use the changelings and the enchantment to change all your opponents creatures into slivers is really powerful and it also kills by attacking in 3 turns
I mean, i understand that it gives some small amount of utility and is a quick clock.
But you're talking about a two card combo that you have to untap with before it does anything. It seems really, really slow, and the upside doesn't seem nearly as high as the other 5 color generals you could be playing.
I mean, you're talking about paying 5 for Overlod, 3 to tutor, 2 for Amoeboid, HOPE that you get to untap, and then pay 3 for your first control magic. That's 13 mana for your first control magic, which seems pretty weak. In addition, he's really vulnerable to control magics and threatens, since he can be stolen forever with his own ability.
Sliver Queen is almost as fast a clock, but gives you multiple infinite combos if you want to go that way, most of which could be easily tutored up considering you're playing a toolbox deck. Having an "I win" combo in your toolbox seems better than an "I might steal a guy" combo.
Horde of Notion is better at grinding out the late game, since you could throw sac outlets into the deck, and do recursion tricks with Mulldrifter, shriekmaw, Crib Swap, Fulminator Mage, and other generic elementals like Wispmare and Ingot Chewer if you choose to.
I'm just saying, the Upside on Sliver Queen seems much higher, and the consistency of Horde of Notions seems a lot higher.
I mean, i understand that it gives some small amount of utility and is a quick clock.
But you're talking about a two card combo that you have to untap with before it does anything. It seems really, really slow, and the upside doesn't seem nearly as high as the other 5 color generals you could be playing.
I mean, you're talking about paying 5 for Overlod, 3 to tutor, 2 for Amoeboid, HOPE that you get to untap, and then pay 3 for your first control magic. That's 13 mana for your first control magic, which seems pretty weak. In addition, he's really vulnerable to control magics and threatens, since he can be stolen forever with his own ability.
Sliver Queen is almost as fast a clock, but gives you multiple infinite combos if you want to go that way, most of which could be easily tutored up considering you're playing a toolbox deck. Having an "I win" combo in your toolbox seems better than an "I might steal a guy" combo.
Horde of Notion is better at grinding out the late game, since you could throw sac outlets into the deck, and do recursion tricks with Mulldrifter, shriekmaw, Crib Swap, Fulminator Mage, and other generic elementals like Wispmare and Ingot Chewer if you choose to.
I'm just saying, the Upside on Sliver Queen seems much higher, and the consistency of Horde of Notions seems a lot higher.
You make good points. The horde has a toolbox that is less searchable by any other tutors so thats a big reason why i cut it. Every card the overlord plays with can be tutored up even if you lose him. I dont think sliver queen is worth it for anything other than basiaclly a big Ant Queen which wouldnt be terrible to be honest. I'll think about changing to the Horde. Any other suggestions though?
Conspiracy, so you can tutor any creature with your general
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Given up magic because a)its a waste of money b)it sucks the joy out of life c)im doing more interesting things than tapping pieces of plastic that have no intrinsic value.
I encourage you to do the same. Instead of FNM try Friday Night Something Spontaneous. Instead of thousands of hours and dollars on plastic imagine it with a significant other or friends sharing something meaningful. I randomly typed a new password, so bon voyage itches i encourage you to follow suit! Cheers
So I compromised on the changing of the general. I'm keeping Sliver Overlord but I took out the 1 card in the deck (Unnatural Selection) that only did anything with the overlord and couldnt be searched by him as well as added in Kira, Great Glass-Spinner and Steely Resolve to protect him from control magic effects.
So I took out wurmcoil engine, memnarch, mortify and shield of kaldra for kiki-jiki, triskellion and tooth and nail and intruder alarm. The deck now has a lot more infinite combo's to work off of, each of which can be tutored for in multiple ways and which already are useful cards. Any opinions?
So I took out wurmcoil engine, memnarch, mortify and shield of kaldra for kiki-jiki, triskellion and tooth and nail and intruder alarm. The deck now has a lot more infinite combo's to work off of, each of which can be tutored for in multiple ways and which already are useful cards. Any opinions?
Well, this is all sort of opinion, but if you want a deck that tutors for an infinite combo to win you might as well play arcum dagsson with the rings of brighthearth + basalt monolith + sensei's divining top combo and go for a turn 5 kill. I mean, if an efficient win is your goal (especially something as boring as kiki and intruder alarm) you might as well go all the way.
Personally I think toolbox cards are more fun when they're used as answer-fetchers to stop combos, game-winners, and brutalize anyone messing with you, and keep generating CA to eventually win the game through attrition. They're subtle cards that make everyone a little nervous to mess with you, and make everyone wonder what you're going to fetch next. If you start using them to put together infinite combos every time, eventually everyone knows what you're doing and tries to kill you as soon as you start doing it, and things stop being interesting. I think it generally works better if you keep them on their toes. I mean, what's the point of putting together an intricate network of toolboxes if your only goal is to accomplish what a few cards in hand and a demonic collusion could have done on their own?
Well, this is all sort of opinion, but if you want a deck that tutors for an infinite combo to win you might as well play arcum dagsson with the rings of brighthearth + basalt monolith + sensei's divining top combo and go for a turn 5 kill. I mean, if an efficient win is your goal (especially something as boring as kiki and intruder alarm) you might as well go all the way.
Personally I think toolbox cards are more fun when they're used as answer-fetchers to stop combos, game-winners, and brutalize anyone messing with you, and keep generating CA to eventually win the game through attrition. They're subtle cards that make everyone a little nervous to mess with you, and make everyone wonder what you're going to fetch next. If you start using them to put together infinite combos every time, eventually everyone knows what you're doing and tries to kill you as soon as you start doing it, and things stop being interesting. I think it generally works better if you keep them on their toes. I mean, what's the point of putting together an intricate network of toolboxes if your only goal is to accomplish what a few cards in hand and a demonic collusion could have done on their own?
I'm actually glad you brought that up because I've been thinking about that all day. For a long time I had tried to keep from pumping in too many infinite combos because I didn't want to attract attention. I wanted the deck to really be a pure control deck. Unfortunately, the problem I was seeing was that the deck just didn't have quite enough power and if they found a way to get rid of all your tutors then you were really really screwed. I think the kiki-jiki and intruder alarm one is good just because they can be searched out by sisay and Zur and both cards are good even if you don't get the combo off. The deck needs a little bit of power and kiki-jiki is a great tooth and nail target as well as a combo piece. I didn't add in pestermite because I really don't think it does anything besides maybe letting me untap sisay. I just needed a little bit more of a win condition. I wouldn't go get it until I really had control of the board though
In my five-color toolbox deck, I run all 10 of the three-color charms (the Shards of Alara cycle and the Invasion Dragon Charms cycle) and Sunforger. This has proven to be EXCELLENT. The charms are good cards, and they can ALL be fetched by Sunforger, making it the ultimate Swiss-army knife when it's out. You can counter spells, prevent damage, clear graveyards, tap out players, whatever. Plus, you can search for the hammer with Stonehewer and you can also get the charms with Mystical Tutor. Just a thought!
I'm actually glad you brought that up because I've been thinking about that all day. For a long time I had tried to keep from pumping in too many infinite combos because I didn't want to attract attention. I wanted the deck to really be a pure control deck. Unfortunately, the problem I was seeing was that the deck just didn't have quite enough power and if they found a way to get rid of all your tutors then you were really really screwed. I think the kiki-jiki and intruder alarm one is good just because they can be searched out by sisay and Zur and both cards are good even if you don't get the combo off. The deck needs a little bit of power and kiki-jiki is a great tooth and nail target as well as a combo piece. I didn't add in pestermite because I really don't think it does anything besides maybe letting me untap sisay. I just needed a little bit more of a win condition. I wouldn't go get it until I really had control of the board though
If you want some toolboxy wincons, here are a few ideas:
Sunforger uses enlightened tutor to get myr squire and soldevi digger, and then proceeds to lock down the board with silence or just mass counterspells like absorb.
skyshroud poacher fetches gilt-leaf archdruid (after fetching other druids) and then steals everyone's lands forever, or voice of the woods and goes nuts with elementals.
Pretty much anyone fetches chameleon colossus with some sort of evasion (pick a sliver or something) and goes nuts.
Those are my suggestions. I'm sure there are other options too, though.
skyshroud poacher fetches gilt-leaf archdruid (after fetching other druids) and then steals everyone's lands forever, or voice of the woods and goes nuts with elementals.
Mirror Entity gets around this, then you just need enough guys.
Personally I think toolbox cards are more fun when they're used as answer-fetchers to stop combos, game-winners, and brutalize anyone messing with you, and keep generating CA to eventually win the game through attrition. They're subtle cards that make everyone a little nervous to mess with you, and make everyone wonder what you're going to fetch next. If you start using them to put together infinite combos every time, eventually everyone knows what you're doing and tries to kill you as soon as you start doing it, and things stop being interesting. I think it generally works better if you keep them on their toes. I mean, what's the point of putting together an intricate network of toolboxes if your only goal is to accomplish what a few cards in hand and a demonic collusion could have done on their own?
Sunforger uses enlightened tutor to get myr squire and soldevi digger, and then proceeds to lock down the board with silence or just mass counterspells like absorb.
skyshroud poacher fetches gilt-leaf archdruid (after fetching other druids) and then steals everyone's lands forever, or voice of the woods and goes nuts with elementals.
Pretty much anyone fetches chameleon colossus with some sort of evasion (pick a sliver or something) and goes nuts.
Those are my suggestions. I'm sure there are other options too, though.
I personally like the way you prefer this deck to be as do I. Do you have a deck list you could post?
I personally like the way you prefer this deck to be as do I. Do you have a deck list you could post?
Well, although I do love the idea of a multi-toolbox deck I usually make single or, at most, double toolbox decks. So I don't have anything directly analygous to this deck, but I have made
-several versions of sunforger toolbox deck.
-a Scion of the ur-dragon (conspiracy) + sunforger toolbox deck.
-A stonehewer toolbox deck (using worldslayer as its main wincon).
-A rebels/elves toolbox deck featuring lin sivvi and poacher.
-lots of EDH decks with wayfarer as a toolbox.
-Arcum dagsson toolbox (which I just made and plan to test tonight, hopefully)
-A Higure toolbox deck
-A zirilan of the claw toolbox deck.
At least, those are the ones that come to mind. So I'm sharing a lot of my ideas for those individual toolboxes into this one deck. Some of those I made a long time ago (like the rebels/elves and stonehewer) but you can look at my scion, arcum, zirilan, higure, and one of my sunforger versions in my sig.
Also, now that I'm thinking about higure, you can use shapesharer + amoeboid changeling as a nifty 1-2 removal combo that's tutorable with pretty much anything in your deck.
So I think that all of the ideas for wincons are cool but they require me playing a lot of cards that dont do anything besides work as part of a combo. What I want is to have combos that also work if I don't draw the other combo pieces like kiki-jiki and intruder alarm. One combo that I've been thinking about working into the deck would, it seems like, make it pretty unfun would be the necrotic ooze, Triskellion and Phyrexian Devourer combo. Then, you can basically go
Turn 4: Play Captain Sisay
Turn 5: Tap Sisay and search for Zur The Enchanter and play him
Turn 6: Use Sisay to get Gaea's Cradle, Attack with Zur and get Survival of the Fittest, search for Triskellion, Devourer and then Ooze and then just win turn 6.
This seems a little bit nuts....It would only require adding 1 card that doesn't do anything outside of the combo as Necrotic Ooze would actually be really good in the deck with all of the activated tutoring abilities. It would however, make the deck a little bit more linear and less controlling which is kind of boring. Thoughts?
I just realized that unfortunately this combo will actually not work because he can only pump his power with cards with cmc < 3 which there are not enough of in this deck to do more than like 20 damage which makes this combo less than broken but actually not even worth adding the 2 extra cards. I know there are kiki-jiki and ooze combos so I'll see if I can find a good one for this deck
Ok I found one in Necrotic Ooze + Kiki-Jiki + Cinderhaze Wretch. This is a considerably less powerful combo mostly because it can't be done with haste so it'll probably be broken up. Is it worth trying to squeeze in?
Try limiting to 2-3 card combos and try to have them be tutor-able by multiple different targets if possible. Necrotic Ooze will certainly help out when some of your tutor creatures are sitting in your graveyard.
I would think about a Phyrexian Arena for Zur. If you can't draw cards then Solitary Confinement is no good.
Other than that, I looove the idea for this deck!!! It's so cool. I've always wanted to build a 5-color deck but have never been able to settle on an idea.
A few suggestions after reading this thread:
1. If you want more broken ramp, include Mana Crypt, seriously that card is nuts. You might also want to consider Mana Vault for a quick burst of mana. Both are searchable with Trinket Mage too. In fact, Tezzeret the Seeker is looking pretty good, as he can search for the same things Trinket can, as well as untapping your artifact lands and Mana Vault.
2. Consider maybe Stoneforge Mystic over Stone-Hewer Giant because it comes out much earlier, is recurrable with 'Lark, and searchable with Imperial Recruiter as well.
3. I would cut Unnatural Selection because the Changeling does it better, IMHO.
4. Changeling Hero! First, it's a changeling making it a Sliver, Rebel and Elf. Next, consider that with something like Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero on the board, you can tutor up this creature to save one of your own in response to removal. Then after the fact, put it right back on the bottom.
5. With the amount of tutors in this deck, Intuition seems like it will always get you business cards that will inevitably lead you to what you want in short order.
6. Crop Rotation is pretty good as well.
7. I would definitely try to find room for Eternal Witness somewhere. The effect is so good, and has many synergies in the deck.
8. You don't have that many cheap artifact creatures for Arcum to transmute, so I might suggest Silver Myr (and it's ilk) to fill your ramp need and sac fodder need.
9. Goblin Welder is also surprisingly good, check it out.
As for cuts, I'll leave that to you =p
Awesome suggestions. I guess I'll go through them 1 by 1.
1) I really really like mana crypt. I'm a little bit worried about the life loss. Its amazing in like vintage obviously and some more aggresive edh decks use it to great effect but even once this deck gets its stuff out, it just starts controlling the board, it doesnt start beating down. I'm definitely going to consider it though.
2) Ya I think that the addition of the recruiter is pretty big in making me think about the mystic. The problem is though that if I take out the giant then i basically have no reason to keep in the toolbox. The point of the giant is that he can tutor up instant speed shroud and indestructibility....I'll think about it though
3) Well the point is not that it does it worse than the changeling but the fact that it also does it. It's just such a powerful effect that to have one searchable by my general and 1 searchable by Zur is good.
4) It seems good but I don't know if its good enough for a spot. Obvoiusly using it in response to a removal spell is cool but then I only end up with is a 4/4 lifelinker...It also only really works with 3 cards...It might be worth a spot, I'm just not sure for what.
5) I agree. Intuition is awesome.
6) It's cool but not really worth a spot. I already have 3 cards that search for any land and 6 that search for some type of lands.
7) Ya....I was thinking about that today. eternal witness is just like mandatory....I don't know what to cut for it....
8) I think I have enough to get something out by the time the dagsson gets out. I have about 30 cards that can get me at least some sort of artifact
9) Goblin welder is cool but I'm not really sure what it does in this deck...Maybe with welder, mindslaver and Volrath's stronghold or something off of an intuition
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Personally, I don't like it, because any Threaten effect means that your general is gone forever. For anyone who's unfamiliar, you can steal it, then target itself with it's "gain control of target sliver" effect.
Personally, I think that Sliver Queen for explosive combo kills or Horde of Notions to grind out wins with Crib Swap/Mulldrifter/Shriekmaw would be a better choice. I don't see myself often wanting to tutor with Sliver Overlord. 8 mana for your first tutor seems pretty slow.
Are you serious? I never thought about using its ability on itself like that. When it deals damage to a player does it count towards being "general damage" or just like a plain creature?
Sliver Overlord is not at all the main point of this deck. But, what it does it provides a win condition. The ability to use the changelings and the enchantment to change all your opponents creatures into slivers is really powerful and it also kills by attacking in 3 turns
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But you're talking about a two card combo that you have to untap with before it does anything. It seems really, really slow, and the upside doesn't seem nearly as high as the other 5 color generals you could be playing.
I mean, you're talking about paying 5 for Overlod, 3 to tutor, 2 for Amoeboid, HOPE that you get to untap, and then pay 3 for your first control magic. That's 13 mana for your first control magic, which seems pretty weak. In addition, he's really vulnerable to control magics and threatens, since he can be stolen forever with his own ability.
Sliver Queen is almost as fast a clock, but gives you multiple infinite combos if you want to go that way, most of which could be easily tutored up considering you're playing a toolbox deck. Having an "I win" combo in your toolbox seems better than an "I might steal a guy" combo.
Horde of Notion is better at grinding out the late game, since you could throw sac outlets into the deck, and do recursion tricks with Mulldrifter, shriekmaw, Crib Swap, Fulminator Mage, and other generic elementals like Wispmare and Ingot Chewer if you choose to.
I'm just saying, the Upside on Sliver Queen seems much higher, and the consistency of Horde of Notions seems a lot higher.
You make good points. The horde has a toolbox that is less searchable by any other tutors so thats a big reason why i cut it. Every card the overlord plays with can be tutored up even if you lose him. I dont think sliver queen is worth it for anything other than basiaclly a big Ant Queen which wouldnt be terrible to be honest. I'll think about changing to the Horde. Any other suggestions though?
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I encourage you to do the same. Instead of FNM try Friday Night Something Spontaneous. Instead of thousands of hours and dollars on plastic imagine it with a significant other or friends sharing something meaningful. I randomly typed a new password, so bon voyage itches i encourage you to follow suit! Cheers
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Well, this is all sort of opinion, but if you want a deck that tutors for an infinite combo to win you might as well play arcum dagsson with the rings of brighthearth + basalt monolith + sensei's divining top combo and go for a turn 5 kill. I mean, if an efficient win is your goal (especially something as boring as kiki and intruder alarm) you might as well go all the way.
Personally I think toolbox cards are more fun when they're used as answer-fetchers to stop combos, game-winners, and brutalize anyone messing with you, and keep generating CA to eventually win the game through attrition. They're subtle cards that make everyone a little nervous to mess with you, and make everyone wonder what you're going to fetch next. If you start using them to put together infinite combos every time, eventually everyone knows what you're doing and tries to kill you as soon as you start doing it, and things stop being interesting. I think it generally works better if you keep them on their toes. I mean, what's the point of putting together an intricate network of toolboxes if your only goal is to accomplish what a few cards in hand and a demonic collusion could have done on their own?
WUB Merieke Ri Berit BUW
GWU Phelddagrif 1 2 3 4 UWG
BR Kaervek the Merciless RB
B Chainer, Dementia Master B
WUB Sen Triplets BUW
BG Sisters of Stone Death GB
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon GRBUW
GWU Angus Mackenzie UWG
R Kumano, Master Yamabushi R
WB Teysa BW
U Higure U
B Geth B
WUBRG Child of Alara 1 2GRBUW
R Zirilan R
U Arcum U
UR Nin RU
BRG Sek'Kuar GRB
U Teferi U
G Melira G
GU Edric UG
BG Glissa GB
Casual
GUB Knacksaw Clique BUG
RWU Sunforger UWR
I'm actually glad you brought that up because I've been thinking about that all day. For a long time I had tried to keep from pumping in too many infinite combos because I didn't want to attract attention. I wanted the deck to really be a pure control deck. Unfortunately, the problem I was seeing was that the deck just didn't have quite enough power and if they found a way to get rid of all your tutors then you were really really screwed. I think the kiki-jiki and intruder alarm one is good just because they can be searched out by sisay and Zur and both cards are good even if you don't get the combo off. The deck needs a little bit of power and kiki-jiki is a great tooth and nail target as well as a combo piece. I didn't add in pestermite because I really don't think it does anything besides maybe letting me untap sisay. I just needed a little bit more of a win condition. I wouldn't go get it until I really had control of the board though
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If you want some toolboxy wincons, here are a few ideas:
stonehewer giant fetches darksteel plate and worldslayer (or kaldra set + worldslayer).
Sliver overlord fetches mirror entity, Sliver Legion (or magma sliver) and shifting sliver.
Sunforger uses enlightened tutor to get myr squire and soldevi digger, and then proceeds to lock down the board with silence or just mass counterspells like absorb.
knight of the reliquary/wayfarer fetches eye of ugin (another toolbox) to fetch ulamog, the infinite gyre or other eldrazi.
skyshroud poacher fetches gilt-leaf archdruid (after fetching other druids) and then steals everyone's lands forever, or voice of the woods and goes nuts with elementals.
Pretty much anyone fetches chameleon colossus with some sort of evasion (pick a sliver or something) and goes nuts.
Those are my suggestions. I'm sure there are other options too, though.
WUB Merieke Ri Berit BUW
GWU Phelddagrif 1 2 3 4 UWG
BR Kaervek the Merciless RB
B Chainer, Dementia Master B
WUB Sen Triplets BUW
BG Sisters of Stone Death GB
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon GRBUW
GWU Angus Mackenzie UWG
R Kumano, Master Yamabushi R
WB Teysa BW
U Higure U
B Geth B
WUBRG Child of Alara 1 2GRBUW
R Zirilan R
U Arcum U
UR Nin RU
BRG Sek'Kuar GRB
U Teferi U
G Melira G
GU Edric UG
BG Glissa GB
Casual
GUB Knacksaw Clique BUG
RWU Sunforger UWR
Mirror Entity gets around this, then you just need enough guys.
I personally like the way you prefer this deck to be as do I. Do you have a deck list you could post?
Oh yeah, good call.
Well, although I do love the idea of a multi-toolbox deck I usually make single or, at most, double toolbox decks. So I don't have anything directly analygous to this deck, but I have made
-several versions of sunforger toolbox deck.
-a Scion of the ur-dragon (conspiracy) + sunforger toolbox deck.
-A stonehewer toolbox deck (using worldslayer as its main wincon).
-A rebels/elves toolbox deck featuring lin sivvi and poacher.
-lots of EDH decks with wayfarer as a toolbox.
-Arcum dagsson toolbox (which I just made and plan to test tonight, hopefully)
-A Higure toolbox deck
-A zirilan of the claw toolbox deck.
At least, those are the ones that come to mind. So I'm sharing a lot of my ideas for those individual toolboxes into this one deck. Some of those I made a long time ago (like the rebels/elves and stonehewer) but you can look at my scion, arcum, zirilan, higure, and one of my sunforger versions in my sig.
Also, now that I'm thinking about higure, you can use shapesharer + amoeboid changeling as a nifty 1-2 removal combo that's tutorable with pretty much anything in your deck.
WUB Merieke Ri Berit BUW
GWU Phelddagrif 1 2 3 4 UWG
BR Kaervek the Merciless RB
B Chainer, Dementia Master B
WUB Sen Triplets BUW
BG Sisters of Stone Death GB
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon GRBUW
GWU Angus Mackenzie UWG
R Kumano, Master Yamabushi R
WB Teysa BW
U Higure U
B Geth B
WUBRG Child of Alara 1 2GRBUW
R Zirilan R
U Arcum U
UR Nin RU
BRG Sek'Kuar GRB
U Teferi U
G Melira G
GU Edric UG
BG Glissa GB
Casual
GUB Knacksaw Clique BUG
RWU Sunforger UWR
Turn 4: Play Captain Sisay
Turn 5: Tap Sisay and search for Zur The Enchanter and play him
Turn 6: Use Sisay to get Gaea's Cradle, Attack with Zur and get Survival of the Fittest, search for Triskellion, Devourer and then Ooze and then just win turn 6.
This seems a little bit nuts....It would only require adding 1 card that doesn't do anything outside of the combo as Necrotic Ooze would actually be really good in the deck with all of the activated tutoring abilities. It would however, make the deck a little bit more linear and less controlling which is kind of boring. Thoughts?
Help me with my custom cube project!!
EDH:
BGWDoran
Legacy:
GSuperland Eldrazi
Help me with my custom cube project!!
EDH:
BGWDoran
Legacy:
GSuperland Eldrazi
Help me with my custom cube project!!
EDH:
BGWDoran
Legacy:
GSuperland Eldrazi
Other than that, I looove the idea for this deck!!! It's so cool. I've always wanted to build a 5-color deck but have never been able to settle on an idea.
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