I'm a red mage at heart, and while Ashling has been my pride and joy for mono red, it plays very similarly to Jaya. This primer has given me a few ideas that I've used, so thank you for that. My most recent incarnation of Ashling included a Staff of Nin and it was actually pretty useful. There are a shocking amount of pingable creatures people throw out in EDH, which is an added bonus to the fact that it's also a colorless Phyrexian Arena without the pain.
I say give it a shot and if you don't like it, then don't use it. It's been a good addition in my book, though =)
Whooo! Someone is reading my primer and using ideas! I'm always glad to hear that kind of thing. Like I mentioned in my last post Staff is definitely on my list of cards to try, I just haven't picked one up and my trade binder has been awful as of late. I'm a longtime proponent of small burn effects in this format (I think I've currently got a Grim Lavamancer that I'm testing out in here) so the ping is actually a very attractive perk. It doesn't hurt that I've seen a few people using it very effectively at this point.
I also use staff of nin in my jaya deck you cant get enough draw especially in mono decks it also pings for 1 which can help, at the moment i use it in replace of minds eye as i dont have one but i will probably remove a land for minds eye as i also seem to have alot of basics in my hand i tend to discard them more then anything else
I never mind having lots of basics in hand, and would much rather discard a couple than miss land drops. Red's ramp is pretty shoddy outside of mana rocks, so hitting land drops is important. You can actually do a pretty good ramp approximation by the late game simply by hitting every land drop. Seeing as this is a control deck, I've got a vested interest in making sure that happens. The fact that Jaya can turn extras into gas makes it an even more attractive option.
Not sure if it was mentioned before but any deck playing valakut shoud play Darksteel Citadel + Ghost Quarter
it's a nice trick to deal 6 dmg via valakut in a single turn
Way too many moving parts for my taste. Red's tutors aren't all that powerful, and finding three specific cards for a single extra bolt in a turn doesn't seem worth it. When you add in that Citadel and Quarter don't get picked up by Scrying Sheets or doubled by Gauntlet effects, they have more downsides than benefits. If I want multiple bolts a turn, Vesuva, Terrain Generator, Thawing Glaciers, and all the other fetches can pull it off much more reliably and are more useful cards outside of that niche situation.
Thanks to everyone who's looking at the list and leaving suggestions! I really do appreciate feedback and love knowing that people are actually reading what I'm writing here.
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I've updated the list to include Vandalblast and added a couple cards to the card options that weren't there before, including my thoughts on Grim Lavamancer. There should be an update I'm very happy to be able to make (+ Gauntlet of Might) within a week or two due to an unexpected windfall. I still have somehow not seen any Codex Shredders pass through my hands, which was one of the other ones I was excited about. I'm also planning on trying out Staff of Nin or Scroll Rack, once I figure out what I want to cut.
I've also started in on pimping this deck out a bit. I'd like to have something to show off with, and I don't think Jaya is going anywhere - perfect choice. Mono-R is also inherently better than every other color combo, so it should be good times.
edit: Gauntlet is going in for sure. That's pretty much my card budget for the year right there.
I've updated the list to include Vandalblast and added a couple cards to the card options that weren't there before, including my thoughts on Grim Lavamancer. There should be an update I'm very happy to be able to make (+ Gauntlet of Might) within a week or two due to an unexpected windfall. I still have somehow not seen any Codex Shredders pass through my hands, which was one of the other ones I was excited about. I'm also planning on trying out Staff of Nin or Scroll Rack, once I figure out what I want to cut.
I've also started in on pimping this deck out a bit. I'd like to have something to show off with, and I don't think Jaya is going anywhere - perfect choice. Mono-R is also inherently better than every other color combo, so it should be good times.
edit: Gauntlet is going in for sure. That's pretty much my card budget for the year right there.
I am particularly jealous of that Gauntlet
Cutting cards can be tricky, but I'll chime in and say that from one Pyromancer to another, Codex Shredder is worth it. It's true that my deck is far more artifact heavy than yours, but this 1 drop can do wonders. For starters, it messes with Top, and if that's not enough, then it's also a means to bring anything in your graveyard back to your hand. When you're playing a General like Jaya, that can carry a lot of weight. Use it with Trading Post to keep recurring things like Cindercloud or even Gamble!
*EDIT*
I really think you should put Vicious Shadows in as well. Ashling and Jaya are very similar in that they enjoy exploding. I was lucky enough to hit a 4th turn Shadows thanks to a second turn Koth of the Hammer (Sol Ring ftw) and it won me the game. Ashling blew up up twice and took two players with her both times. You said it yourself that enchantments are very powerful and often stick around far longer than they should due to under appreciated removal. It doesn't just apply to sweepers either because it makes people pay for throwing Solemns or Elders into the graveyard and makes Clamping things painful.
Also, I seriously recommend Koth. He helps you set up early game (see above) and he can explode your mana late game when you have 10+ mountains. I've had his emblem go off once and it rocked. I ultimately lost because of a Sorin, but still. My point is, Koth is THE planeswalker for mono red because the dude loves mountains.
Maybe Guided Lotus? It seems like a redundant choice if you have mana doubling.
Also Weebos, don't be too sad, there's like a good 2 month until the end of the year, consider it an early Christmas gift for being awesome.
I was considering that or Thran Dynamo. This deck is pretty good at hitting land drops, so something that plays nicely with mountains is a much better fit than something that just jumps me →8. I'll decide for sure when it gets here. I'm not beating myself up over ordering it. That's been a dream card for this deck since I built it, and that was at least two years ago now. Jaya is my longest running deck and the one i always go back to at some point, so she deserves some bling.
Cutting cards can be tricky, but I'll chime in and say that from one Pyromancer to another, Codex Shredder is worth it. It's true that my deck is far more artifact heavy than yours, but this 1 drop can do wonders. For starters, it messes with Top, and if that's not enough, then it's also a means to bring anything in your graveyard back to your hand. When you're playing a General like Jaya, that can carry a lot of weight. Use it with Trading Post to keep recurring things like Cindercloud or even Gamble!
*EDIT*
I really think you should put Vicious Shadows in as well. Ashling and Jaya are very similar in that they enjoy exploding. I was lucky enough to hit a 4th turn Shadows thanks to a second turn Koth of the Hammer (Sol Ring ftw) and it won me the game. Ashling blew up up twice and took two players with her both times. You said it yourself that enchantments are very powerful and often stick around far longer than they should due to under appreciated removal. It doesn't just apply to sweepers either because it makes people pay for throwing Solemns or Elders into the graveyard and makes Clamping things painful.
Also, I seriously recommend Koth. He helps you set up early game (see above) and he can explode your mana late game when you have 10+ mountains. I've had his emblem go off once and it rocked. I ultimately lost because of a Sorin, but still. My point is, Koth is THE planeswalker for mono red because the dude loves mountains.
I know I want Shredder in here, but I seriously haven't seen one. I haven't opened one and friends haven't opened them while I've been around. It's admittedly been a little less frequent for me to be around lately, but still. It's kind of weird, seeing as I played a prerelease, played the team sealed GP, and opened up another dozen packs or so. I'll get one sooner or later.
Shadows is a beating but it's so expensive. That's always what I disliked about it. I like my seven mana to do something impactful. I do love that it's a must-kill card for a lot of decks. Even if it doesn't get a ton of value, it takes the heat off of cards like Furnace and Repercussion.
Koth is always a toss-up for me. I like him and how he's designed, but I'm so creature light that the only way he's anything more than a ritual is if I can stick Jaya a lot of the time. My defenses are actually pretty poor here if a creature I can't burn out comes down. The fact that he provides pressure post-nuke is super appealing as well. I may have to revisit him at some point.
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First of all thank you for the great primer! I chose to build mono red Jaya as my first EDH deck. I've just recently gotten it adjusted to the point where it is fitting my play style but it is so much fun! It is also pretty consistent.
One of the cards I was going to recommend was Spine of Ish Sah. It has pretty good synergy with Goblin Welder and Shattering Pulse. It also helps get rid of pesky enchantments that I've had problems with such as Mark of Asylum and Nevermore. It is a costly card, but being we're going the control route already anyway it's not too bad.
First of all thank you for the great primer! I chose to build mono red Jaya as my first EDH deck. I've just recently gotten it adjusted to the point where it is fitting my play style but it is so much fun! It is also pretty consistent.
One of the cards I was going to recommend was Spine of Ish Sah. It has pretty good synergy with Goblin Welder and Shattering Pulse. It also helps get rid of pesky enchantments that I've had problems with such as Mark of Asylum and Nevermore. It is a costly card, but being we're going the control route already anyway it's not too bad.
Thanks again Weebo!
Thanks for reading! It's always nice to hear people are actually paying attention to the old wall-o'-text.
Spine has been in the deck in the past, but got bumped because I was generally doing alright with Chaos Warp and Karn Liberated. Unless there's some enchantment that completely shuts down my strategy, I normally just try to win around it. Relying on two or three answers is kind of painful, and there aren't enough sac outlets in the deck to really abuse Spine anymore. There are a few other things the deck desperately needs (GY hate - probably Tormod's Crypt) before Spine comes back, I think. Not to say it's never coming back, but space is getting a little tight and there are still some holes that need to be filled because I'm being lazy about it.
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Hey Weebo, I have just now fell head over heels in love with your Jaya deck. As such, now I'm putting one together!
I wanted to get your opinion on a minor card choice, the card Wild Guess. It would essentially replace Dangerous Wager. The big differences I notice are that Wager is instant speed though you'll only ever discard one card with Wild Guess. Somewhere earlier in this thread I remember you mentioning that it's been keeping a full hand recently. Do you think Wild Guess might be a good card option instead? How useful do these minor cards play into your Jaya deck?
Also, thanks for the awesome post on a general I've never seen before!
*edit* Also thought of another card option, Stuffy Doll; obviously not great politically (for one player), but with Blasphemous Act and Jaya's third ability, it seems the synergy would be amazing. Thoughts?
Stuffy is great, but at the same time, Limited by itself because it only kills one player. Mind you with a Furnace out, it really kills that player (6 becomes 12, 12 becomes 24 + the first 12 = 36 from Jaya), but you still have to worry about the other players you've just blasted. With Karn and Warp, you can get away without Spine, but I still like it even if it just sits on the board. It'll go back to your hand eventually.
Hey Weebo, I have just now fell head over heels in love with your Jaya deck. As such, now I'm putting one together!
I wanted to get your opinion on a minor card choice, the card Wild Guess. It would essentially replace Dangerous Wager. The big differences I notice are that Wager is instant speed though you'll only ever discard one card with Wild Guess. Somewhere earlier in this thread I remember you mentioning that it's been keeping a full hand recently. Do you think Wild Guess might be a good card option instead? How useful do these minor cards play into your Jaya deck?
Also, thanks for the awesome post on a general I've never seen before!
*edit* Also thought of another card option, Stuffy Doll; obviously not great politically (for one player), but with Blasphemous Act and Jaya's third ability, it seems the synergy would be amazing. Thoughts?
Whooo! Convert! Welcome to the mono-R party.
I actually do have Wild Guess in there now. Wager is still not a terrible choice sometimes, but there are enough land searching effects and wheels that it was painful to discard my hand more of the time than I liked. Guess came at a perfect time and was swapped in immediately, and it's been excellent. It's not uncommon for it to just be a draw two, given the GY play in the deck.
Stuffy has been on my maybe list since about the point where I built the deck. It's a solid defensive option that tends to not draw removal, and it can be an absolute beating with the damage doublers. Even without them, it's solid. It would make me very sad with Repercussion down, but that's frequently the case anyways. I think it falls into the "too much good stuff" camp right now. I'd love to run it, but that means I have to cut something else and I'm not sure what I want that to be yet.
Stuffy is great, but at the same time, Limited by itself because it only kills one player. Mind you with a Furnace out, it really kills that player (6 becomes 12, 12 becomes 24 + the first 12 = 36 from Jaya), but you still have to worry about the other players you've just blasted. With Karn and Warp, you can get away without Spine, but I still like it even if it just sits on the board. It'll go back to your hand eventually.
Yeah, Spine is certainly not a bad card. No question there. It's in the same weird gray area as Stuffy Doll - there's so much I'd like to run that it starts getting hard to make cuts. It doesn't help that I've been playing newer decks a little more recently, so I don't have as good a sense of what's not working as I might.
I'd also like to find a spot for Batterskull, and maybe sneak Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang back in. They're both solid threats that "live" through board wipes, and equipping either on Jaya does some wonderful stuff: lifelink and let's her survive her ability, respectively, as well as turning her into a reasonable clock if need be.
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Lifelink on someone that explodes is always great, but I've had trouble justifying spending the cash to get one for Ashling because that's all it does. Yes, it's a recurring creature, but it also equips for 5. Ashling ain't got time for that and she only costs 6 to pop. Jaya is 7 and equipping it only puts her at 6 power. It's a good card, no doubt, but I think it costs too much mana for Generals like ours that generally need to have 6+ mana open at all times.
Tatsu is interesting, but you really need to be careful with it because you don't want to have the token exiled or bounced. Then again, it has great synergy with Jaya because the Token is blue and you can pyroblast it. As you pointed out in you main post, it also gives Jaya the magical number of 7, so I could see it. I've been meaning to grab one for Wydwen for the same reason and that it only equips for 3. It's also neat for getting through the color barrier of only being mono-red because there are a shocking number of things that are pro-red. That's why I started to include Scuttlemutt. Mana rock, color filter, and Trading Post fodder all in one. Yea, he's a creature, but he's useful and he'll come back because he's an artifact. Also, the more you say his name, the funnier it gets.
I don't think I can talk budget with a straight face about this deck anymore, but I have a Batterskull for legacy anyways. I don't think I'd ever want it early, but late game I typically have more mana than I know what to do with and that doesn't seem like a terrible play. I should probably be trying to shore up my early game, but the Batterskull can almost do that on its own.
Scuttlemutt has come under consideration a few times. I like how flexible it is for sure. The thing that worries me a bit is that Jaya already has some trouble staying on the board - people get paranoid about Inferno whenever I want, for some reason (I've had Gilded Drake swaps, Treachery, and all kinds of worse things happen to her). I'm not sure the utility Scuttlemutt adds is enough. I don't run into pro-R all that often, either, Just the occasional Sword of Fire and Ice, which is a huge pain regardless of the protection.
Tatsumasa has come in and out a couple times. I like the idea of it, but it's never had much of an impact. It seems like it could be really good here, but I never seem to draw it, or when I did it just wasn't what I needed. In the end, it keeps falling victim to too much cool stuff.
I'm liking having insights from another player with a similar deck. Don't be a stranger, and I should probably come and visit your thread a touch more often.
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Feel free to drop on by! I've been meaning to post an update, but I keep changing the deck. Last week, my group decided to do a house ban list, unbanning Primeval Titan, but banning problem cards like Consecrated Sphinx, Tooth and Nail, and Time Stretch while allowing infinite combos again. Needless to say, I've been busy tuning the deck to withstand the pressure. I finally got my hands on an Into the Core, so I can exile certain things like Triskelion. My wheel effects are going back into the deck, but unfortunately I don't have the original, and as much as I want to run Stranglehold, it will do me more harm than good. I've already been threatened and my playgroup is brutal. People love to tutor and ramp, it's weird.
If people want to threaten Jaya or Scuttlemutt, let them. I would much rather they effectively waste something like that on something ultimately underwhelming for them than gain a bigger advantage later. I look at Scuttlemutt and can rarely think of a bad time to draw him, which is why I included him. To many times have I run into something like Akroma, Angel of Wrath and just sort of wondered how I was going to deal with it. It's half the reason I keep Spine in the deck. The only thing it doesn't kill is Gaea's Revenge.
Falling victim to cool stuff is always a problem. Right now, I have Soulbright Flamekin, Heatstone, and Scythe of the Wretched in my deck because they go infinite with Ashling. However, while each of them is good on their own, I don't know if it's worth keeping. If I draw one, will I always want it? I think the answer is sadly, no. Tatsumasa sounds like the same thing. It's good and it can be very good at times, but in the end, it really only amounts to a bigger creature when it could be something like Cindercloud instead.
In my experience, Tatsumasa isn't worth a slot. I've only found it good when I already have lots of mana and nothing else to do. It also is epicly bad against anyone that might bounce it or exile it as was already stated so for those few times I had it it ended up working more like a six mana fog effect that you could recast every turn but could be countered by targetted removal.
I would love to have a Batterskull. Mostly because of it's ability to gum up the ground and be consistantly saved and recasted. An amazing card that my budget doesn't allow for but a friend of mine has one and it's endlessly useful to him against me. But he uses it as an 8 mana 5/5 vigilance lifelinker.
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it but Grab the Reins has been amazing utility in most of my red decks. It has saved me from a one shot commander damage by either stealing the commander or stealing something to put in front of it. Just a few days a go it killed a Jarad player with his own general by flinging it before the drain life activation resolved. It's quite often a 2 for 1 by stealing the biggest baddie and throwing it at the second biggest. It can finish out a game where you would otherwise need another attack step or to get past a blocker for lethal. Honestly I'm never sorry to see it and the fact that it's all at instant speed is that much more gravy. Especially in a deck that routinely leaves mana up.
Also need to mention Hellkite Igniter. A 7 mana hasty 5/5 isn't terribly off curve but with all the artifacts you run and mana generation it's never going to be that. My record so far is over 60 damage one shot. It does not require a mana doubler to be useful. For 9 mana it is however many artifacts you control in addition to it's 5 power and MUST either be answered or have something that can block it put in front of it. Literally fireball on a stick that doesn't die at end of turn.
I know someone already mentioned Koth but I need to second how good it is. With gamble you get to run 2 of them. With your general being able to clear the board it really does just dominate games if you get to ultimate it off. I've also used to to ramp into a lethal Hellkite Igniter. Occasionally you get it out turn 2 off of sol ring and just crush the table with ping mountains and your generals board clearing ability.
Igniter was a very hard cut for me at first. The reason I cut him was because he felt very odd within the deck itself and required a board state I couldn't exactly promise. There was never a time I wanted him over anything else in the deck and 3/4 times I had him, I didn't want to play him. The power possibility of the card is very strong and I can't deny that, but I actually didn't miss him after he was gone. I think it's more the style of the deck because other dedicated aggro cards felt the same way.
Grab the Reins is a phenomenal card that should be in every deck with red in it. Why? It's one of the forms of removal we have. This card alone makes people think twice before they go all out with a huge beater. Ever see a Thromok kill it's owner? I have and have done it. It's wonderful (unless you're Thromok =P).
I guess that makes sense about Igniter. I don't play it in my Akroma deck despite being able to support it since the deck is really about removal and 'control' until I can get a leg up and finish someone with Akroma. At the same time its my only red deck that doesn't run it out of like 5. Even made it in Kiki-Jiki because its one of the few true threats that don't require Kiki to wreck face.
Igniter is certainly a beating. I've got a friend who likes making artifact and threat heavy decks, and Igniter has ruined more than a few people he's played against. that said, I don't particularly like it here. The artifact density is high enough and the mana production is reliable enough to make it happen, but I don't like going that all in on a threat. A phoenix with a sword is one of the most common kills this deck has (probably just behind Comet Storm), and I like that it's an extremely resilient threat. Igniter just doesn't feel that way to me.
Grab the Reins is a similar beating. That would likely have showed up sooner, but I don't think I own any of them and I'm super bad about picking up uncommons for some reason. I still have no idea what I'd want to cut (kind of a common theme), but I agree that I should try it out. I think it's still behind GY hate and Batterskull on my short list, and waaaay behind Gauntlet of Might (still thrilled about this. I'll probably post a picture), but I'll remember to grab one eventually.
Tatsumasa is unlikely to actually stick in the deck. I like the idea of it a lot more than I like how it plays, but there's a reason it's been cut every time I try to run it.
edit: Updated the list for Gauntlet. While I don't have it in hand, I already know for a fact it's going in the deck and never, ever leaving.
I did some testing with Spine of Ish Sah and can see why you took it out. It is a good card but out of the 5 times I've had it I've never played it. It feels kind of like a "brick" that you just don't want to spend the mana on. I feel like I'd be better off tucking in another mana rock of some type.
I ran Akroma, Angel of Fury as my general for awhile and it was fun. She had either a Sword of Feast and Famine or an Akroma's Memorial out far more than people wanted to see, a lot of the times, it was both and it was scary. Who needs boots? That deck was more centered on land destruction, though. Stick an Akroma and next turn lay out a Chandra Ablaze and cycle Decree of Annihilation . Good times.
Spine has been good to me so far, but I think I'm going to cut it myself, just to see what it's like without it.
I pulled Spine right around the time NPH came out (the set, not the actor. That statement is somewhat ambiguous) and I could replace it with Karn Liberated. I like how flexible the slot is, but it's really, really hard to justify more than one 7 cmc spot removal spell. I like the upside to Karn more than i like the upside to Spine, so he's the one I went with.
The fact that Akroma doesn't have haste on her own makes me so sad. I would have built her by now were that not the case, no question. this deck used to be a lot heavier on land-D, but I frequently didn't want to play it so I pulled it all out. It's still solid stuff, but I didn't find it all that interesting and don't really like taking just one person out of the game. Seeing as that was the most common result of Ruination and Wake of Destruction, they just didn't jive with what I wanted this deck to do.
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I can understand that. I don't own a Karn, which is why my Spine has stayed in. I might have time to work on my deck tonight and we'll see if it still makes the cut or if it's a little high on the curve.
Tower has been excellent to me in my Sisters deck, but I haven't tried it here. It might be worthwhile, given the amount of mana I frequently want to hold up. At the same time, it's a lot of mana for cards, especially that first activation. I think that one really depends on your group. If you're going a little slower most games, it has some potential, especially if no one has played it before. I know mine tends to be targeted, because most of the people I play with realize that I'm not going to include it unless I think I can use the ability well. Sisters really hasn't helped in that regard. I'd probably shy away from it here just because it would draw a similar amount of attention from my group without the insane mana production that Sisters has.
I know that this deck isn't even remotely budget anymore. If you ever want opinions on some cheaper options, let me know. I tried a bunch of those first and still take some pleasure in using obscure options. Spine is not a bad card, and it definitely has some things to recommend it over Karn. They're just not the things I'm doing in this deck.
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Updated the list yet again. Made space for Batterskull and Codex Shredder over Gilded Lotus and Mogg Infestation. No idea if those changes are going to stick, but I haven't been having mana trouble with all of the land drop engines and I can't remember the last time I played Infestation. Shredder has already led to one ridiculous play, and Gauntlet has been every bit as fun as I wanted it to be.
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I saw this list a few months ago and started putting it together, because it looked amazing. And it has been amazing, I love it. Just wanted to thank you, Weebo, and let you know Jaya has another fan.
I saw this list a few months ago and started putting it together, because it looked amazing. And it has been amazing, I love it. Just wanted to thank you, Weebo, and let you know Jaya has another fan.
Good to hear! I'm always happy to learn about a new Jaya fan. It's also nice to hear about people who appreciate the primer - not a complete waste of time that way. Is there anything you've tried that's worked particularly well? I'm especially interested in stuff I haven't considered before.
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Whooo! Someone is reading my primer and using ideas! I'm always glad to hear that kind of thing. Like I mentioned in my last post Staff is definitely on my list of cards to try, I just haven't picked one up and my trade binder has been awful as of late. I'm a longtime proponent of small burn effects in this format (I think I've currently got a Grim Lavamancer that I'm testing out in here) so the ping is actually a very attractive perk. It doesn't hurt that I've seen a few people using it very effectively at this point.
I never mind having lots of basics in hand, and would much rather discard a couple than miss land drops. Red's ramp is pretty shoddy outside of mana rocks, so hitting land drops is important. You can actually do a pretty good ramp approximation by the late game simply by hitting every land drop. Seeing as this is a control deck, I've got a vested interest in making sure that happens. The fact that Jaya can turn extras into gas makes it an even more attractive option.
Way too many moving parts for my taste. Red's tutors aren't all that powerful, and finding three specific cards for a single extra bolt in a turn doesn't seem worth it. When you add in that Citadel and Quarter don't get picked up by Scrying Sheets or doubled by Gauntlet effects, they have more downsides than benefits. If I want multiple bolts a turn, Vesuva, Terrain Generator, Thawing Glaciers, and all the other fetches can pull it off much more reliably and are more useful cards outside of that niche situation.
Thanks to everyone who's looking at the list and leaving suggestions! I really do appreciate feedback and love knowing that people are actually reading what I'm writing here.
I've also started in on pimping this deck out a bit. I'd like to have something to show off with, and I don't think Jaya is going anywhere - perfect choice. Mono-R is also inherently better than every other color combo, so it should be good times.
edit: Gauntlet is going in for sure. That's pretty much my card budget for the year right there.
Maybe Guided Lotus? It seems like a redundant choice if you have mana doubling.
Also Weebos, don't be too sad, there's like a good 2 month until the end of the year, consider it an early Christmas gift for being awesome.
:symr::symb: I hate your deck(Kaervek the Merciless)
Wait, how do I even hide it as a name title?
Kemba, Kostume
Ka...Oh god that's not a good alliteration.Wait, how do I even hide it as a name title?
I am particularly jealous of that Gauntlet
Cutting cards can be tricky, but I'll chime in and say that from one Pyromancer to another, Codex Shredder is worth it. It's true that my deck is far more artifact heavy than yours, but this 1 drop can do wonders. For starters, it messes with Top, and if that's not enough, then it's also a means to bring anything in your graveyard back to your hand. When you're playing a General like Jaya, that can carry a lot of weight. Use it with Trading Post to keep recurring things like Cindercloud or even Gamble!
*EDIT*
I really think you should put Vicious Shadows in as well. Ashling and Jaya are very similar in that they enjoy exploding. I was lucky enough to hit a 4th turn Shadows thanks to a second turn Koth of the Hammer (Sol Ring ftw) and it won me the game. Ashling blew up up twice and took two players with her both times. You said it yourself that enchantments are very powerful and often stick around far longer than they should due to under appreciated removal. It doesn't just apply to sweepers either because it makes people pay for throwing Solemns or Elders into the graveyard and makes Clamping things painful.
Also, I seriously recommend Koth. He helps you set up early game (see above) and he can explode your mana late game when you have 10+ mountains. I've had his emblem go off once and it rocked. I ultimately lost because of a Sorin, but still. My point is, Koth is THE planeswalker for mono red because the dude loves mountains.
RRRAshling, the PilgrimRRR
UUUThadda Adel, AcquisitorUUU
I was considering that or Thran Dynamo. This deck is pretty good at hitting land drops, so something that plays nicely with mountains is a much better fit than something that just jumps me →8. I'll decide for sure when it gets here. I'm not beating myself up over ordering it. That's been a dream card for this deck since I built it, and that was at least two years ago now. Jaya is my longest running deck and the one i always go back to at some point, so she deserves some bling.
I know I want Shredder in here, but I seriously haven't seen one. I haven't opened one and friends haven't opened them while I've been around. It's admittedly been a little less frequent for me to be around lately, but still. It's kind of weird, seeing as I played a prerelease, played the team sealed GP, and opened up another dozen packs or so. I'll get one sooner or later.
Shadows is a beating but it's so expensive. That's always what I disliked about it. I like my seven mana to do something impactful. I do love that it's a must-kill card for a lot of decks. Even if it doesn't get a ton of value, it takes the heat off of cards like Furnace and Repercussion.
Koth is always a toss-up for me. I like him and how he's designed, but I'm so creature light that the only way he's anything more than a ritual is if I can stick Jaya a lot of the time. My defenses are actually pretty poor here if a creature I can't burn out comes down. The fact that he provides pressure post-nuke is super appealing as well. I may have to revisit him at some point.
First of all thank you for the great primer! I chose to build mono red Jaya as my first EDH deck. I've just recently gotten it adjusted to the point where it is fitting my play style but it is so much fun! It is also pretty consistent.
One of the cards I was going to recommend was Spine of Ish Sah. It has pretty good synergy with Goblin Welder and Shattering Pulse. It also helps get rid of pesky enchantments that I've had problems with such as Mark of Asylum and Nevermore. It is a costly card, but being we're going the control route already anyway it's not too bad.
Thanks again Weebo!
Thanks for reading! It's always nice to hear people are actually paying attention to the old wall-o'-text.
Spine has been in the deck in the past, but got bumped because I was generally doing alright with Chaos Warp and Karn Liberated. Unless there's some enchantment that completely shuts down my strategy, I normally just try to win around it. Relying on two or three answers is kind of painful, and there aren't enough sac outlets in the deck to really abuse Spine anymore. There are a few other things the deck desperately needs (GY hate - probably Tormod's Crypt) before Spine comes back, I think. Not to say it's never coming back, but space is getting a little tight and there are still some holes that need to be filled because I'm being lazy about it.
I wanted to get your opinion on a minor card choice, the card Wild Guess. It would essentially replace Dangerous Wager. The big differences I notice are that Wager is instant speed though you'll only ever discard one card with Wild Guess. Somewhere earlier in this thread I remember you mentioning that it's been keeping a full hand recently. Do you think Wild Guess might be a good card option instead? How useful do these minor cards play into your Jaya deck?
Also, thanks for the awesome post on a general I've never seen before!
*edit* Also thought of another card option, Stuffy Doll; obviously not great politically (for one player), but with Blasphemous Act and Jaya's third ability, it seems the synergy would be amazing. Thoughts?
RRRAshling, the PilgrimRRR
UUUThadda Adel, AcquisitorUUU
Whooo! Convert! Welcome to the mono-R party.
I actually do have Wild Guess in there now. Wager is still not a terrible choice sometimes, but there are enough land searching effects and wheels that it was painful to discard my hand more of the time than I liked. Guess came at a perfect time and was swapped in immediately, and it's been excellent. It's not uncommon for it to just be a draw two, given the GY play in the deck.
Stuffy has been on my maybe list since about the point where I built the deck. It's a solid defensive option that tends to not draw removal, and it can be an absolute beating with the damage doublers. Even without them, it's solid. It would make me very sad with Repercussion down, but that's frequently the case anyways. I think it falls into the "too much good stuff" camp right now. I'd love to run it, but that means I have to cut something else and I'm not sure what I want that to be yet.
Yeah, Spine is certainly not a bad card. No question there. It's in the same weird gray area as Stuffy Doll - there's so much I'd like to run that it starts getting hard to make cuts. It doesn't help that I've been playing newer decks a little more recently, so I don't have as good a sense of what's not working as I might.
I'd also like to find a spot for Batterskull, and maybe sneak Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang back in. They're both solid threats that "live" through board wipes, and equipping either on Jaya does some wonderful stuff: lifelink and let's her survive her ability, respectively, as well as turning her into a reasonable clock if need be.
Tatsu is interesting, but you really need to be careful with it because you don't want to have the token exiled or bounced. Then again, it has great synergy with Jaya because the Token is blue and you can pyroblast it. As you pointed out in you main post, it also gives Jaya the magical number of 7, so I could see it. I've been meaning to grab one for Wydwen for the same reason and that it only equips for 3. It's also neat for getting through the color barrier of only being mono-red because there are a shocking number of things that are pro-red. That's why I started to include Scuttlemutt. Mana rock, color filter, and Trading Post fodder all in one. Yea, he's a creature, but he's useful and he'll come back because he's an artifact. Also, the more you say his name, the funnier it gets.
RRRAshling, the PilgrimRRR
UUUThadda Adel, AcquisitorUUU
Scuttlemutt has come under consideration a few times. I like how flexible it is for sure. The thing that worries me a bit is that Jaya already has some trouble staying on the board - people get paranoid about Inferno whenever I want, for some reason (I've had Gilded Drake swaps, Treachery, and all kinds of worse things happen to her). I'm not sure the utility Scuttlemutt adds is enough. I don't run into pro-R all that often, either, Just the occasional Sword of Fire and Ice, which is a huge pain regardless of the protection.
Tatsumasa has come in and out a couple times. I like the idea of it, but it's never had much of an impact. It seems like it could be really good here, but I never seem to draw it, or when I did it just wasn't what I needed. In the end, it keeps falling victim to too much cool stuff.
I'm liking having insights from another player with a similar deck. Don't be a stranger, and I should probably come and visit your thread a touch more often.
If people want to threaten Jaya or Scuttlemutt, let them. I would much rather they effectively waste something like that on something ultimately underwhelming for them than gain a bigger advantage later. I look at Scuttlemutt and can rarely think of a bad time to draw him, which is why I included him. To many times have I run into something like Akroma, Angel of Wrath and just sort of wondered how I was going to deal with it. It's half the reason I keep Spine in the deck. The only thing it doesn't kill is Gaea's Revenge.
Falling victim to cool stuff is always a problem. Right now, I have Soulbright Flamekin, Heatstone, and Scythe of the Wretched in my deck because they go infinite with Ashling. However, while each of them is good on their own, I don't know if it's worth keeping. If I draw one, will I always want it? I think the answer is sadly, no. Tatsumasa sounds like the same thing. It's good and it can be very good at times, but in the end, it really only amounts to a bigger creature when it could be something like Cindercloud instead.
RRRAshling, the PilgrimRRR
UUUThadda Adel, AcquisitorUUU
I would love to have a Batterskull. Mostly because of it's ability to gum up the ground and be consistantly saved and recasted. An amazing card that my budget doesn't allow for but a friend of mine has one and it's endlessly useful to him against me. But he uses it as an 8 mana 5/5 vigilance lifelinker.
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it but Grab the Reins has been amazing utility in most of my red decks. It has saved me from a one shot commander damage by either stealing the commander or stealing something to put in front of it. Just a few days a go it killed a Jarad player with his own general by flinging it before the drain life activation resolved. It's quite often a 2 for 1 by stealing the biggest baddie and throwing it at the second biggest. It can finish out a game where you would otherwise need another attack step or to get past a blocker for lethal. Honestly I'm never sorry to see it and the fact that it's all at instant speed is that much more gravy. Especially in a deck that routinely leaves mana up.
Also need to mention Hellkite Igniter. A 7 mana hasty 5/5 isn't terribly off curve but with all the artifacts you run and mana generation it's never going to be that. My record so far is over 60 damage one shot. It does not require a mana doubler to be useful. For 9 mana it is however many artifacts you control in addition to it's 5 power and MUST either be answered or have something that can block it put in front of it. Literally fireball on a stick that doesn't die at end of turn.
I know someone already mentioned Koth but I need to second how good it is. With gamble you get to run 2 of them. With your general being able to clear the board it really does just dominate games if you get to ultimate it off. I've also used to to ramp into a lethal Hellkite Igniter. Occasionally you get it out turn 2 off of sol ring and just crush the table with ping mountains and your generals board clearing ability.
Grab the Reins is a phenomenal card that should be in every deck with red in it. Why? It's one of the forms of removal we have. This card alone makes people think twice before they go all out with a huge beater. Ever see a Thromok kill it's owner? I have and have done it. It's wonderful (unless you're Thromok =P).
RRRAshling, the PilgrimRRR
UUUThadda Adel, AcquisitorUUU
Grab the Reins is a similar beating. That would likely have showed up sooner, but I don't think I own any of them and I'm super bad about picking up uncommons for some reason. I still have no idea what I'd want to cut (kind of a common theme), but I agree that I should try it out. I think it's still behind GY hate and Batterskull on my short list, and waaaay behind Gauntlet of Might (still thrilled about this. I'll probably post a picture), but I'll remember to grab one eventually.
Tatsumasa is unlikely to actually stick in the deck. I like the idea of it a lot more than I like how it plays, but there's a reason it's been cut every time I try to run it.
edit: Updated the list for Gauntlet. While I don't have it in hand, I already know for a fact it's going in the deck and never, ever leaving.
Spine has been good to me so far, but I think I'm going to cut it myself, just to see what it's like without it.
RRRAshling, the PilgrimRRR
UUUThadda Adel, AcquisitorUUU
The fact that Akroma doesn't have haste on her own makes me so sad. I would have built her by now were that not the case, no question. this deck used to be a lot heavier on land-D, but I frequently didn't want to play it so I pulled it all out. It's still solid stuff, but I didn't find it all that interesting and don't really like taking just one person out of the game. Seeing as that was the most common result of Ruination and Wake of Destruction, they just didn't jive with what I wanted this deck to do.
How do you feel about Tower of Fortunes?
RRRAshling, the PilgrimRRR
UUUThadda Adel, AcquisitorUUU
I know that this deck isn't even remotely budget anymore. If you ever want opinions on some cheaper options, let me know. I tried a bunch of those first and still take some pleasure in using obscure options. Spine is not a bad card, and it definitely has some things to recommend it over Karn. They're just not the things I'm doing in this deck.
Good to hear! I'm always happy to learn about a new Jaya fan. It's also nice to hear about people who appreciate the primer - not a complete waste of time that way. Is there anything you've tried that's worked particularly well? I'm especially interested in stuff I haven't considered before.