I don't have anything incredibly productive to say, but it's nice to see the first planeswalker having a primer made for her.
I'm a huge fan of Jaya and intend on building a deck for her on account of how awesome she is. Great job on the primer. If there were a pulitzer prize for forum posts, this would be up there!
I'm really considering building Jaya (The only color I don't use in EDH is red at the moment). This primer is very, very useful. Thanks for putting it together.
One question does occur to me, why is Skullclamp not being considered in a deck this light on draw? Even with a low creature count I would think creatures like squee and the phoenix would love this effect. Even Jaya could wear the hat in a pinch?
A friend of mine used to run a mono-red EDH deck with clamp and Goblin Assault which basically gave him 2 extra cards a turn. Idk if this really fits into this kind of deck but I thought it was a really good idea.
Thanks! Skullclamp is constantly being considered, but tends to be low on my testing list because of the scarcity of creatures. While it's great with Squee or Kher Keep, two cards out of 99 with only two tutors is pushing it. The phoenix generally don't hit play until I want to use them to kill things (like players!), so I've gone with other things in its spot.
I'd definitely reconsider it with a few more creatures, like if you were to run a goblin package. This is definitely a strong option, it's just not how I wanted my deck to play. I've run enough creature heavy decks that I wanted something different. I'd also be careful about putting it on Jaya unless you're very confident in your GY hate package, as she has to hit the yard to draw off of it.
Goblin Assault is also a good card, but I don't really have any use for the goblins as is and a steady stream of 1/1s who are forced to attack isn't worth a card to me. Again, there's definitely a strong argument for it if you build a little differently, but my version of the deck doesn't roll that way right now.
I would seriously recommend you give Basilisk collar and pyrohemia a shot. Basilisk collar on Jaya, is just silly when she can inferno. Seriously you usually gain 40+ life in addition to simply killing everything. Pyrohemia keeps creature swarms way way down, in addition to being a way to kill the whole table (mana doublers everyone).
Also, I die to ulamog way too constantly. There any decent ways to answer him in red other than the vow of lightning and karn? Similar question about Darksteel plate (I'm added into the core just for that card)
Collar is already in there, and there's no way it's coming out. Massive lifegain and potent spot removal make it an all star. Pyrohemia is another card that I glance at just about every time I go to work on this deck, but it hasn't made the cut yet. There are a few creature sweepers already, like the general, so it's seemed redundant. It's still something I've been meaning to try, but I don't like testing more than a few cards at a time so it's pretty slow going.
Changes, I'd consider additional goblins. Swapping out Ingot Chewer for Tuktuk Scrapper lets you tutor it up with Moggcatcher. Also, while he's not terribly cheap dollar-wise right now, you look like you have a deck that could make use of Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. While those are fairly major changes, it opens up all the various goblin tutors for you. If Chandra Nalaar isn't one of the pet cards, I'd consider losing her. If she is, I absolutely understand - I ran her for quite a while. I'm also wondering about Worldslayer. It's great if you've got Colossus or Marit Lage out, but you should be in pretty good shape at that point anyways. Repercussion has always been an all star for me as well, though it's better if you have solid sac outlets, Sword of Fire and Ice, or Akroma's Memorial. They're a little expensive, but they're extremely powerful both as buffs for your attackers and as ways to nuke the board with Jaya while protecting your dudes. Other stuff at high speed: I can't recommend Rings of Brighthearth enough, Journeyer's Kite and Thawing Glaciers both help you hit land drops as well as give you cards to toss, and Past in Flames and Charmbreaker Devils can keep you well stocked with powerful instants and sorceries.
For dealing with Ulamog/Plate, stealing and saccing is one reliable way outside of the answers you already run. Act of Aggression and Grab the Reins are both instant speed ways to borrow Ulamog, whether you want to swing in or just stop the attack before it happens. Heat Shimmer also answers Ulamog or any other legendary creature, as well as letting you make use of whatever tasty etb abilities are at the table. Duplicant and Brittle Effigy can both exile. If you're really having trouble, there's always the brand new and very costly Helvault. I can't think of anything specific for Darksteel Plate other than Into the Core, though there are a couple [CARD=magnetic theft]cards that let you steal equipment, at least temporarily. While they're probably too narrow, I'm not sure how prevalent Plate is and how much trouble it's giving you.
Overall, it looks pretty solid. There are definitely places where you could make improvements, but that's true of every deck out there and a lot of it comes down to playstyle differences, like how I probably focus a little too much on Jaya in my build. How long have you been playing the deck?
I don't have anything incredibly productive to say, but it's nice to see the first planeswalker having a primer made for her.
I'm a huge fan of Jaya and intend on building a deck for her on account of how awesome she is. Great job on the primer. If there were a pulitzer prize for forum posts, this would be up there!
Thanks for reading!
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Collar is already in there, and there's no way it's coming out. Massive lifegain and potent spot removal make it an all star. Pyrohemia is another card that I glance at just about every time I go to work on this deck, but it hasn't made the cut yet. There are a few creature sweepers already, like the general, so it's seemed redundant. It's still something I've been meaning to try, but I don't like testing more than a few cards at a time so it's pretty slow going.
Changes, I'd consider additional goblins. Swapping out Ingot Chewer for Tuktuk Scrapper lets you tutor it up with Moggcatcher. Also, while he's not terribly cheap dollar-wise right now, you look like you have a deck that could make use of Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. While those are fairly major changes, it opens up all the various goblin tutors for you. If Chandra Nalaar isn't one of the pet cards, I'd consider losing her. If she is, I absolutely understand - I ran her for quite a while. I'm also wondering about Worldslayer. It's great if you've got Colossus or Marit Lage out, but you should be in pretty good shape at that point anyways. Repercussion has always been an all star for me as well, though it's better if you have solid sac outlets, Sword of Fire and Ice, or Akroma's Memorial. They're a little expensive, but they're extremely powerful both as buffs for your attackers and as ways to nuke the board with Jaya while protecting your dudes. Other stuff at high speed: I can't recommend Rings of Brighthearth enough, Journeyer's Kite and Thawing Glaciers both help you hit land drops as well as give you cards to toss, and Past in Flames and Charmbreaker Devils can keep you well stocked with powerful instants and sorceries.
For dealing with Ulamog/Plate, stealing and saccing is one reliable way outside of the answers you already run. Act of Aggression and Grab the Reins are both instant speed ways to borrow Ulamog, whether you want to swing in or just stop the attack before it happens. Heat Shimmer also answers Ulamog or any other legendary creature, as well as letting you make use of whatever tasty etb abilities are at the table. Duplicant and Brittle Effigy can both exile. If you're really having trouble, there's always the brand new and very costly Helvault. I can't think of anything specific for Darksteel Plate other than Into the Core, though there are a couple [CARD=magnetic theft]cards that let you steal equipment, at least temporarily. While they're probably too narrow, I'm not sure how prevalent Plate is and how much trouble it's giving you.
Overall, it looks pretty solid. There are definitely places where you could make improvements, but that's true of every deck out there and a lot of it comes down to playstyle differences, like how I probably focus a little too much on Jaya in my build. How long have you been playing the deck!
I think Jaya was the second EDH deck I made, so I've probably been playing since Scars of Mirrodin came out. Like a year and a half then I guess?
I would defiantly give pyrohemia a go. With mana doublers out, it often just ends up killing players. Although that is in my meta, which isn't nearly as competitive as others (by that I mean very minimal infinite combo and land destruction, mainly creature beats to win).
Some of my card choices...
I really enjoy winning with bad cards, a category worldslayer falls under. So winning with it just makes me happy. Similarly chandra (the bad one) is a pet card, although she isn't ever really bad. Never good either mind you.
I now have 6 EDH decks and a cube so my card base is stretched rather... thin. As such my sword of ice and fire, akroma's memorial, and duplicant are otherwise in use. Also, there's another friend of mine who plays Ashling, the pilgrim and who I'm trying to keep overlapping cards to a minimum with. He wins with repercussions a lot (which I traded him), so I don't plan on getting another one. He also draws darksteel plate every time I play against him forever. >: (
I really like the heat shimmer idea, so I'll look into getting one. Same with the goblin scrapper. Also, I have a rings of brighthearth on hand, what would you recommend I cut?
I really like the heat shimmer idea, so I'll look into getting one. Same with the goblin scrapper. Also, I have a rings of brighthearth on hand, what would you recommend I cut?
I'd probably think about Liquimetal Coating or Mycosynth Lattice. They're fun when they work, but you only have 6 pieces of artifact removal. Devoting a pair of slots might not be worth it, even for the possibility of a Vindicate. If you're after that effect, I finally got around to adding Distorting Lens back into the deck after having it suggested countless times. When I tried it before, I thought it was more cute than effective, but I could (and you could) have better luck with it this time. Comboing with your general, who you always have access to, makes it a bit more reliable than the artifact stuff.
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I was hoping you could help me out with a few things that are redundant or need to be cut or maybe some things that the deck is missing as I am currently 10 cards over the max and figured I would ask the expert before I cut anything too valuable. Thanks!
I was hoping you could help me out with a few things that are redundant or need to be cut or maybe some things that the deck is missing as I am currently 10 cards over the max and figured I would ask the expert before I cut anything too valuable. Thanks!
Glad to hear it! I'm always happy when people put mono-R together, moreso when it's Jaya (and they're not in my playgroup).
I'm giving you real time comment on the list here, but I want to caution you to take all of these with a grain of salt. It's St. Patrick's Day, I'm having something of a bad day, and there's an Irish gentleman named Jameson spending some quality time with me. I'd like to think that my deckbuilding chops can stand up to some mildly intoxicating substances, but I make no promises.
First, Dwarven Miner should be Dwarven Blastminer if you want to run it. If you can convince a single person (through sneaky means, of course) that you're hiding an Akroma, it's totally worth it, and there's absolutely no downside. That said, I didn't find either of them to be worth it, and I've tried both simultaneously. They pull a lot of hate down on you, and their role is easily filled by Strip Mine, Tectonic Edge, etc.
While on the topic of lands, I'm going to assume your list isn't terribly budget. Because of that, I'm going to say that running the other fetches is probably a good plan. Turning Crucible into something that hits every land drop is extremely powerful, as this is a control deck at heart. Obviously not a terribly important thing, but it's definitely a good plan.
As you're looking for cuts, I'd consider a Chandra (Firebrand) or two (Nalaar) alongside the relevant Phoenix. While I love the flavor of them, Ablaze is really the only one with a significant impact, up to and including the ultimate. Wheel of Fate has also (surprisingly) been pretty mediocre. Telegraphing the play hurts it a lot, even if you have the same knowledge. I'm willing to ride Jaya's ability to use anything as gas rather than that most of the time.
I'm curious about how Alpha Brawl is working out for you. It seemed like a definite possibility, though I might like Blood Feud more. Eight is just a lot of mana. especially as a sorcery, for something your general does pretty well already. On those lines, I found Magebane Armor to be too narrow. There are other cards that fill that role better as well as offering a benefit when you're not trying to protect from Jaya. Shield of Kaldra is painfully expensive, but the upside is pretty significant. You're running more creatures than I am, so that seems reasonable. I'd pay attention to how often you use the phoenix as creatures and how often they're fodder - if you're never casting them, you can probably afford to lose one. Three creatures as fodder along with Crucible has been plenty for me.
If you can sneak into a Goblin Welder, it's almost certainly one of the best creatures in mono-R and arguably red in general. Unrelated, Incendiary Command rarely met my expectations. It doesn't help to draw back to your hand size if that's 1-2 cards. Unrelated, I've cut most of the LD stuff at this point. Despite my outspoken pro-LD approach, the people I play with are generally not fans and I always felt bad about using Wake, so I cut them. They're definitely good - if you're less moral than I am (unlikely) or in a group more accepting of it (more likely), knock yourself out. Just be aware that you can still play decent games without them, and they're not awful places to look for cuts if you're drawing needless hate for those spells.
Terrible as it may be, I'm going to come back to this tomorrow sometime. Overall, the list looks solid. At this point, you're likely looking at playstyle as much as anything. I'm always glad to see someone put together a red list,so best of luck! I'll try and give more reasoned explanations and decent commentary on your list in the immediate future.
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Thanks for the feedback! I'm going to hold off on changes until your next round of critiques so not too many things get moved around. The more I think about this deck the more absurd amounts of fun it seems.
They might not be the best cuts, especially depending on meta, but it does take it down to 99. You seemed pretty heavy on the artifact hate, a lot of which is reusable, and I've been running lighter for a while. I also tend to let Jaya fill the sweeper role in my deck almost exclusively, which may or may not be a good plan. The moral of the story is that you should definitely try things out, and adjust from there. I like to think my list is pretty good, but that doesn't mean it's right for everyone.
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Well, I really liked Fissure and Reverberate for the instant speed removal and "maybe I would like to search my library for a card of my choice too" so I left those in.
I moved a few things around. I know how special Kumano was to you so I felt a little guilty when I took him out It also broke my heart cutting Firebrand because I'm a bit in love with her, but she isn't the best for the strategy of burning down the world. all in all, I think the list is pretty good. I'm a little concerned that I am running too many sweepers, but with no oblivion stone in deck for the sake of our artifacts and Alpha Brawl being a one-sided wipe, I think it may be ok. If it comes down to it though, I am going to cut 1 or 2 of them for another creature because even though this is a control deck, I feel like it is a tiny bit creature light at the moment after all those cuts. The list is current now so any opinions on the final product would be lovely. Especially if you have any places that more good creatures could sneak their way in or some cards that I missed in the adding process.
@Archangel29: List looks good. A lot of it comes down to what you want to be playing with in more flexible spots, but you have some very solid recursion options (as solid as you get in red) and plenty of ways to hit land drops, which really are the important bits here. If you've been playing this, I'd be curious about how well you've been hitting higher mana costs with fewer rocks. I've been debating the merits of just focusing on hitting land drops, because there are a few engines here that do that extremely well.
You really should never feel bad about making cuts that I'm a fan of. My list has evolved over quite some time, and while cards like Kumano are certainly defensible choices they are by no means necessary for the deck to run. He's also something of a meta call at this point. Recursion strategies are very popular around here, so exiling makes all the difference in the world. I've also got a bit of a soft spot for him, as he was briefly the general for the deck.
But now, on to other things. AVR is entirely spoiled as of last night, so it's a good time to sift through and mention all of the goodies this set is bringing to Jaya and mono-R in general. Keep in mind, even the ones I'm excited about are still conditional on playing well. There are a couple where that's mostly a formality, but I've been surprised before. Cards are tagged despite the fact that those don't work yet because that won't be the case forever.
Bonfire of the Damned - This is obviously ridiculously good at it's miracle cost, and is solid without it. There's not a ton of card draw in mono-R (yet. This set helps), so the miracle shouldn't be that uncommon a thing. Jaya already plays off the top on a pretty regular basis, but actually casting what's being drawn might be new and different.
Dangerous Wager - Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. Instant speed draw two. Discard your hand doesn't matter. Fill it with phoenix, Squee, play out your hand first, whatever. Jaya already wants to run what recursion she can, so this is an easy, easy choice.
Falkenrath Exterminator - Interesting, at the very least. Doesn't seem likely to survive long enough to really become a force and might take waaay too long to grow up, but I could see him doing alright. Any source of repeatable removal, especially a source that grows into a half decent threat and clears its own path, is worth consideration.
Lightning Mauler - Passes haste around to all your guys as they come in. Generally worse than the current options for this deck, but haste is very important.
Mad Prophet - Another easy one. Slightly worse than looters and miles ahead of anything else red has right now. Plays very well with recursion to just draw cards.
Malignus - Doesn't play particularly well with anything in this deck. The best thing it has going for it is that it's likely to survive early Infernos, but other than that it's just a big beater without evasion. Pass.
Reforge the Soul - It's Wheel of Fortune. I happily play Chandra Ablaze with the prospect of getting nothing more than her mini-Wheel off. I would probably play this card if it cost six and had no miracle cost. Shoo-in.
Rite of Ruin - Expensive and requires you to already be in a better position to be really good. The selling point of this for my build is the extremely low creature count, which makes it more likely to just take three creatures from everyone else. I'm willing to try it, but I am not holding out much hope for it.
Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded - Could definitely be solid. Looting when there's a bunch of recursion in the deck is always good, even with a random discard. The various land finding engines mean that I've frequently seen hands that had 4-5 Mountains, Squee, and maybe a business card or two. The odds of Tibalt having a positive effect on my hand at that point are very good, and I'm more than willing to risk it. The other two abilities are nice but shouldn't be expected to go off if they would ever be relevant. If they do, say because of repeated board wipes from Jaya, that's just gravy.
Zealous Conscripts - It's Word of Seizing plus a body minus split second. These guys can definitely cause some damage. Also an infinite combo with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker if you've got a more goblin/etb focus going on. Certainly worth a look.
Cavern of Souls - Just because this deck relies so heavily on Jaya. Once she's on the board, she can generally nuke herself or be sacced away in case of tuck, but this forces her through Hinder and Spell Crumple. I'm not sure if that's worth taking a Mountain out for, but it's worth a second look.
And there's AVR as it relates to Jaya. If I missed something, let me know. I'll probably have my deck updated sometime around the release (can't afford the prerelease), so changes to that and little updates to the primer should happen not too long after that, barring life getting in the way.
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Some of the choices might seem odd, but there's a method to the madness. The reduced land count is to account for the massive amount of mana rocks and the additional methods of hitting land drops. Crypt came out because the three damage was adding up more than I liked, so Dynamo is better (and should have been there all along). Spot removal came out for card draw and filtering because I'd rather go hunting for the good stuff than run mediocre stuff. Devils also should have been there all along. I'd been taking the wrong approach to random recursion. What I had been doing is thinking "I don't run that many [card type]s, so I don't really want a recursion engine for them." What I should have been thinking is "I don't run that many [card types]s. That means I get Chaos Warp back every turn."
I still haven't tried out some of the AVR stuff (Conscripts, Tibalt, and Bonfire) and I need more time with Wager, but I have a pretty good idea of how they fit into the plan and I'm pretty confident that I'm reading them correctly this time.
Also, I'm thinking Rings of Brighthearth might be the best card in the deck after a game the other night. Copying fetches, Expedition Map (to grab Valakut + Vesuva), Coalition Relic charges, and many other things besides. It's just a ridiculously good card with this many activated abilities. Braid of Fire was also an all-star.
I think I'm going to hunt for a spot for Swiftfoot Boots, because how are those not already here, but it's going to wait until I get some more time with the AVR stuff to make sure I'm not misevaluating those.
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No love for Winding Canyons? I also tend to prefer Kuldotha Phoenix over it's brothers, as it returns to play, and has haste. I realize that you actually want more of them in hand, for Jaya, but sometimes a decent reviving flyer can come in handy.
Nice write up! I noticed you have Furnace of Rath listed twice under the "Enchantment" section of the first post.
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On Mythic Rares: "What's next, Wizards will print six golden Black Lotuses and randomly place them in boosters, and if someone gets one, they get to tour the Wizards facility?"
Have you considered Stuffy Doll? He works well with Jaya, Furnace of Rath, Gratuitous Violence and all the damage based sweepers, especially Blasphemous Act. Plus even without those he's a good value card that can deter attacks and allows other opponents to circumvent the blockers of the chosen player by swinging at you instead.
No love for Winding Canyons? I also tend to prefer Kuldotha Phoenix over it's brothers, as it returns to play, and has haste. I realize that you actually want more of them in hand, for Jaya, but sometimes a decent reviving flyer can come in handy.
4: block target attacking creature.
That's a reasonable point on Kuldotha. Tossing in something else to help close out games is probably a good call. I may need to rethink Squee, sacrilegious as that may be. I'm not a fan of including cards that only serve as combo pieces (the reason Distorting Lens never seems to stick around) and Squee does break that rule. I rarely have a problem finding cards to toss, especially with the love red has gotten recently.
Canyons just doesn't do enough to lose a mountain or a different nonbasic for it. It would be more or less exclusively for Jaya eot, and I'd rather run Boots in addition to Greaves for the added protection. At this point, my mountain count is getting low enough that the doublers, Skred, and Sheets are losing some potency.
Nice write up! I noticed you have Furnace of Rath listed twice under the "Enchantment" section of the first post.
Thank you! Furnace is actually only listed once, but I mention it (with tag) again when talking about Repercussion, because it has some amazing synergy.
Have you considered Stuffy Doll? He works well with Jaya, Furnace of Rath, Gratuitous Violence and all the damage based sweepers, especially Blasphemous Act. Plus even without those he's a good value card that can deter attacks and allows other opponents to circumvent the blockers of the chosen player by swinging at you instead.
Thanks! Stuffy Doll was on my radar at some point, then I didn't have one and forgot about it. Back onto the radar it goes. I'll keep an eye out for one, because that does seem like a good fit here.
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Pulled Squee, Goblin Nabob for Kuldotha Phoenix. While Squee is wonderful, he's also essentially a combo piece. He doesn't really do anything on his own, and there are plenty of other cards that can be discarded to Jaya. Phoenix only gets a single "free" discard, but it's a hasty, evasive, recursive beater after that. I'm not sure if the upkeep restriction is going to kill it yet, but it's certainly worth a shot.
I also updated the primer significantly, though most of the changes are formatting things that hopefully make it look a little cleaner and easier to read. The Table of Contents is something that probably should have been there all along, but I forgot about the tags that let it exist until I was helpfully reminded by bobthefunny earlier.
Now that M13 is entirely spoiled, it's time for the quarterly evaluation of new cards!
Firewing Phoenix - New phoenix always get consideration here. This one is extremely simple, but it's simple in the way that I love my phoenix to be. It's definitely going to be tested, and we'll see how it stacks up. (Side note, I love that this deck is kind of turning into phoenix tribal)
Krenko, Mob Boss - I'm not goblin heavy enough for this guy, but he's extremely good if you're running them. Probably better heading up his own aggressive deck, though.
Rummaging Goblin - Worse than Mad Prophet here without the haste. Better if you're running goblins, which I'm not.
Wild Guess - Probably going to replace Dangerous Wager. There's a possibility that they'll coexist, but I'm not sure what I would want to cut to make that happen.
Trading Post - Does enough that I certainly want to try it. A stack of relevant abilities makes it pretty promising.
I might also take the opportunity to grab a Stuffy Doll when the price inevitably drops, which is something that's been on the watchlist. Anyone basing their build off of mine (:shudder:) should appreciate the plummeting price of Akroma's Memorial as well. Overall, not a bad set for Jaya.
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Updated the list for M13. Changes are: Greater Gargadon → Trading Post: The Post has a lot more utility than the Gargadon, which is more important than a big beater in this deck. It still works as a sac outlet, so I'm not losing anything there. There's a possibility that Gargadon comes back at some point, but Trading Post is promising enough that I need to try it out.
Kuldotha Phoenix → Firewing Phoenix: Losing a hasty beater in exchange for something with more flexibility about when it recurs and additional discard fodder. If Kuldotha didn't have the upkeep restriction, I would be a lot less likely to cut it. Sadly, it does. Any new phoenix is pretty much guaranteed a test in this deck.
Dangerous Wager → Wild Guess: Seems easy. I think I'm going to find another cut for the Wager later on, but right now I want to see how Guess works and this is an easy way to do that.
Primer updates to follow after I've actually had a chance to play with the cards.
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I've been vaguely interested in building mono-red for a fair while, it's just that there's no red general yet that really clicks with me.
One thing about Red that makes me hesitant is that there seems to be several cards that you just have to run to even make Red vaguely viable, like Chandra Ablaze, Gamble, etc. Has that been your experience? (Thank Jeebus for Cockatrice being free, lol)
No Mindclaw Shaman testing? I suppose it's not the kind of deck for him, though.
I don't believe that there are any cards that have to be run in any deck, but there are certainly some cards that cover for a lot of mono-R's weaknesses. Things like Wheel of Fortune and Gamble can do an incredible amount of work in picking up for the lack of card draw and tutors, which is why they inevitably show up in red lists.
You can get around running some of the wheels by going heavier of artifact draw, heavier on recursion, or making use of the ever-increasing amount of card selection red is getting from WotC these days. If your threats are more powerful and more resilient than your opponents' threats, the fact that they're likely drawing more cards is less important.
It's more difficult to dodge the lack of tutors. There are a couple approaches here. First is to run a general/tribal theme that covers for you. Godo, Bandit Warlord and Zirilan of the Claw make the deck more consistent simply by leading it, and any red deck can make use of goblins wit hall their assorted utility and tutors. The second option is to find your gameplan and focus in. If every card in your deck contributes to what you're trying to do, it's less important to be able to tutor for specifics. Including redundant piece after redundant piece can seem to limit your options a little bit, but it's going to make the deck more competitive in the long run.
I run them because (a) I'm looking for all the card draw I can get, and I rely on a few pieces to speed up my win condition here, and (b) because this deck plays around the downsides (typically involving discarding) by running just about every recursion element available in mono-R. My Zirilan deck (which I don't think I ever posted) ran a couple of them, but was a far cry from including everything that typically finds its way into mono-R lists. It still did fine, about on the level I expect a very rough concept to do.
Long story short, I don't think that the "autoincludes" are strictly necessary to play and enjoy mono-R, but there's a reason they see such widespread play. What you want the deck to do and what your meta looks like have an effect as well.
On Shaman in here, it doesn't really contribute to the decks plan. I can't reuse it easily and a one shot mostly random effect isn't worth the card to me. There are a bunch of things I would rather find the space for before I would add this guy in here. Seems like a ton of fun in some kind of UR or BR deck, where you can pop him off several times in a game/turn.
Blech. Wordier than I wanted that to be.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
I don't like running cards that only function as combo pieces. Jaya tends to get hated off the table a lot already because she holds down so many generals (all the blue ones, any with < 3 toughness, and various creature-centric strategies) and I don't really want to add a card that's only live when she survives. The prospect of a repeatable Vindicate is nice, but it didn't work out well in practice.
edit:
The other thing to do now is talk about RTR! As a multicolor set, there aren't likely to be a ton of gems for a mono-R list, but Jaya is still getting some love. Mizzium Mortars - Spot removal and a pseudo board wipe. My years of Jaya playing have shown me that small burn is actually very underrated in EDH, and this has the potential to be a lot bigger. The downside is that this doesn't do much that Jaya doesn't already do, and I don't run enough creatures for that part to be super relevant. Might be good, but I'm not rushing out for a copy.
Racecourse Fury - Much more exciting. Haste is hugely powerful for a general with three t abilities, and this is a harder-to-kill/lower profile option for it. I'd happily slap this on a land. If it gets destroyed, then an opponent burned a piece of enchantment removal on this rather than something like Repercussion or a piece of land removal on a basic instead of something like Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle or Kher Keep. I have high hopes for this one.
Street Spasm - Like Mizzium Mortars, but more expensive and restrictive. I think Jaya has this covered, and I would go for the Mortars over this.
Utvara Hellkite - An expensive beater without any additional utility. If it and its tokens didn't die to everything including my own general, I'd be more tempted. It's not what I'm looking for with this deck.
Vandalblast - Seems very good. Artifact hate is always relevant, and this is good at any stage in the game. Sorcery is a little painful, but the effect is good enough to overlook that.
Codex Shredder - The lone artifact and it's a good one. Regrowth is nothing to turn your nose up at, even if it's expensive. This deck runs a few ways to reuse artifacts, so this could be solid. The fact that it turns off topdeck tutors is an attractive little side perk.
So there aren't a lot of options here, which is not surprising given the set. The ones that I am interested in (Racecourse Fury, Vandalblast, and Codex Shredder) look very good, so I'll be happy to try and find places for them.
Have you tried Staff of Nin? It's pricey, easily removed, and the ping isn't too relevant but it does draw you a card every turn, which it seems the deck would hugely benefit from.
Have you tried Staff of Nin? It's pricey, easily removed, and the ping isn't too relevant but it does draw you a card every turn, which it seems the deck would hugely benefit from.
I actually haven't yet, because I haven't picked one up. Pure theory (and seeing it across the table), it seems good but not vital. It is certainly on my mental shortlist of cards to try out in this deck. This deck has actually gotten fairly good at keeping a full hand, though it's frequently full of basic lands.
I've actually been considering Scroll Rack for that very reason recently.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
I'm a red mage at heart, and while Ashling has been my pride and joy for mono red, it plays very similarly to Jaya. This primer has given me a few ideas that I've used, so thank you for that. My most recent incarnation of Ashling included a Staff of Nin and it was actually pretty useful. There are a shocking amount of pingable creatures people throw out in EDH, which is an added bonus to the fact that it's also a colorless Phyrexian Arena without the pain.
I say give it a shot and if you don't like it, then don't use it. It's been a good addition in my book, though =)
I'm a huge fan of Jaya and intend on building a deck for her on account of how awesome she is. Great job on the primer. If there were a pulitzer prize for forum posts, this would be up there!
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
Thanks! Skullclamp is constantly being considered, but tends to be low on my testing list because of the scarcity of creatures. While it's great with Squee or Kher Keep, two cards out of 99 with only two tutors is pushing it. The phoenix generally don't hit play until I want to use them to kill things (like players!), so I've gone with other things in its spot.
I'd definitely reconsider it with a few more creatures, like if you were to run a goblin package. This is definitely a strong option, it's just not how I wanted my deck to play. I've run enough creature heavy decks that I wanted something different. I'd also be careful about putting it on Jaya unless you're very confident in your GY hate package, as she has to hit the yard to draw off of it.
Goblin Assault is also a good card, but I don't really have any use for the goblins as is and a steady stream of 1/1s who are forced to attack isn't worth a card to me. Again, there's definitely a strong argument for it if you build a little differently, but my version of the deck doesn't roll that way right now.
Collar is already in there, and there's no way it's coming out. Massive lifegain and potent spot removal make it an all star. Pyrohemia is another card that I glance at just about every time I go to work on this deck, but it hasn't made the cut yet. There are a few creature sweepers already, like the general, so it's seemed redundant. It's still something I've been meaning to try, but I don't like testing more than a few cards at a time so it's pretty slow going.
Changes, I'd consider additional goblins. Swapping out Ingot Chewer for Tuktuk Scrapper lets you tutor it up with Moggcatcher. Also, while he's not terribly cheap dollar-wise right now, you look like you have a deck that could make use of Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. While those are fairly major changes, it opens up all the various goblin tutors for you. If Chandra Nalaar isn't one of the pet cards, I'd consider losing her. If she is, I absolutely understand - I ran her for quite a while. I'm also wondering about Worldslayer. It's great if you've got Colossus or Marit Lage out, but you should be in pretty good shape at that point anyways. Repercussion has always been an all star for me as well, though it's better if you have solid sac outlets, Sword of Fire and Ice, or Akroma's Memorial. They're a little expensive, but they're extremely powerful both as buffs for your attackers and as ways to nuke the board with Jaya while protecting your dudes. Other stuff at high speed: I can't recommend Rings of Brighthearth enough, Journeyer's Kite and Thawing Glaciers both help you hit land drops as well as give you cards to toss, and Past in Flames and Charmbreaker Devils can keep you well stocked with powerful instants and sorceries.
For dealing with Ulamog/Plate, stealing and saccing is one reliable way outside of the answers you already run. Act of Aggression and Grab the Reins are both instant speed ways to borrow Ulamog, whether you want to swing in or just stop the attack before it happens. Heat Shimmer also answers Ulamog or any other legendary creature, as well as letting you make use of whatever tasty etb abilities are at the table. Duplicant and Brittle Effigy can both exile. If you're really having trouble, there's always the brand new and very costly Helvault. I can't think of anything specific for Darksteel Plate other than Into the Core, though there are a couple [CARD=magnetic theft]cards that let you steal equipment, at least temporarily. While they're probably too narrow, I'm not sure how prevalent Plate is and how much trouble it's giving you.
Overall, it looks pretty solid. There are definitely places where you could make improvements, but that's true of every deck out there and a lot of it comes down to playstyle differences, like how I probably focus a little too much on Jaya in my build. How long have you been playing the deck?
Thanks for reading!
I think Jaya was the second EDH deck I made, so I've probably been playing since Scars of Mirrodin came out. Like a year and a half then I guess?
I would defiantly give pyrohemia a go. With mana doublers out, it often just ends up killing players. Although that is in my meta, which isn't nearly as competitive as others (by that I mean very minimal infinite combo and land destruction, mainly creature beats to win).
Some of my card choices...
I really enjoy winning with bad cards, a category worldslayer falls under. So winning with it just makes me happy. Similarly chandra (the bad one) is a pet card, although she isn't ever really bad. Never good either mind you.
I now have 6 EDH decks and a cube so my card base is stretched rather... thin. As such my sword of ice and fire, akroma's memorial, and duplicant are otherwise in use. Also, there's another friend of mine who plays Ashling, the pilgrim and who I'm trying to keep overlapping cards to a minimum with. He wins with repercussions a lot (which I traded him), so I don't plan on getting another one. He also draws darksteel plate every time I play against him forever. >: (
I really like the heat shimmer idea, so I'll look into getting one. Same with the goblin scrapper. Also, I have a rings of brighthearth on hand, what would you recommend I cut?
The Ur-Dragon (WUBRG) - Changeling Combo Tribal
Chromium (WUB) - Artifact Beats
Progenitus (WUBRG) - Dredge
Damia, Sage of Stone (GBU) - Elf-storm Tendrils
My Cube Unpowered
My Peasant-ish/Tribal-ish Cube
I'd probably think about Liquimetal Coating or Mycosynth Lattice. They're fun when they work, but you only have 6 pieces of artifact removal. Devoting a pair of slots might not be worth it, even for the possibility of a Vindicate. If you're after that effect, I finally got around to adding Distorting Lens back into the deck after having it suggested countless times. When I tried it before, I thought it was more cute than effective, but I could (and you could) have better luck with it this time. Comboing with your general, who you always have access to, makes it a bit more reliable than the artifact stuff.
I was hoping you could help me out with a few things that are redundant or need to be cut or maybe some things that the deck is missing as I am currently 10 cards over the max and figured I would ask the expert before I cut anything too valuable. Thanks!
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
Glad to hear it! I'm always happy when people put mono-R together, moreso when it's Jaya (and they're not in my playgroup).
I'm giving you real time comment on the list here, but I want to caution you to take all of these with a grain of salt. It's St. Patrick's Day, I'm having something of a bad day, and there's an Irish gentleman named Jameson spending some quality time with me. I'd like to think that my deckbuilding chops can stand up to some mildly intoxicating substances, but I make no promises.
First, Dwarven Miner should be Dwarven Blastminer if you want to run it. If you can convince a single person (through sneaky means, of course) that you're hiding an Akroma, it's totally worth it, and there's absolutely no downside. That said, I didn't find either of them to be worth it, and I've tried both simultaneously. They pull a lot of hate down on you, and their role is easily filled by Strip Mine, Tectonic Edge, etc.
While on the topic of lands, I'm going to assume your list isn't terribly budget. Because of that, I'm going to say that running the other fetches is probably a good plan. Turning Crucible into something that hits every land drop is extremely powerful, as this is a control deck at heart. Obviously not a terribly important thing, but it's definitely a good plan.
As you're looking for cuts, I'd consider a Chandra (Firebrand) or two (Nalaar) alongside the relevant Phoenix. While I love the flavor of them, Ablaze is really the only one with a significant impact, up to and including the ultimate. Wheel of Fate has also (surprisingly) been pretty mediocre. Telegraphing the play hurts it a lot, even if you have the same knowledge. I'm willing to ride Jaya's ability to use anything as gas rather than that most of the time.
I'm curious about how Alpha Brawl is working out for you. It seemed like a definite possibility, though I might like Blood Feud more. Eight is just a lot of mana. especially as a sorcery, for something your general does pretty well already. On those lines, I found Magebane Armor to be too narrow. There are other cards that fill that role better as well as offering a benefit when you're not trying to protect from Jaya. Shield of Kaldra is painfully expensive, but the upside is pretty significant. You're running more creatures than I am, so that seems reasonable. I'd pay attention to how often you use the phoenix as creatures and how often they're fodder - if you're never casting them, you can probably afford to lose one. Three creatures as fodder along with Crucible has been plenty for me.
If you can sneak into a Goblin Welder, it's almost certainly one of the best creatures in mono-R and arguably red in general. Unrelated, Incendiary Command rarely met my expectations. It doesn't help to draw back to your hand size if that's 1-2 cards. Unrelated, I've cut most of the LD stuff at this point. Despite my outspoken pro-LD approach, the people I play with are generally not fans and I always felt bad about using Wake, so I cut them. They're definitely good - if you're less moral than I am (unlikely) or in a group more accepting of it (more likely), knock yourself out. Just be aware that you can still play decent games without them, and they're not awful places to look for cuts if you're drawing needless hate for those spells.
Terrible as it may be, I'm going to come back to this tomorrow sometime. Overall, the list looks solid. At this point, you're likely looking at playstyle as much as anything. I'm always glad to see someone put together a red list,so best of luck! I'll try and give more reasoned explanations and decent commentary on your list in the immediate future.
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
They might not be the best cuts, especially depending on meta, but it does take it down to 99. You seemed pretty heavy on the artifact hate, a lot of which is reusable, and I've been running lighter for a while. I also tend to let Jaya fill the sweeper role in my deck almost exclusively, which may or may not be a good plan. The moral of the story is that you should definitely try things out, and adjust from there. I like to think my list is pretty good, but that doesn't mean it's right for everyone.
I moved a few things around. I know how special Kumano was to you so I felt a little guilty when I took him out It also broke my heart cutting Firebrand because I'm a bit in love with her, but she isn't the best for the strategy of burning down the world. all in all, I think the list is pretty good. I'm a little concerned that I am running too many sweepers, but with no oblivion stone in deck for the sake of our artifacts and Alpha Brawl being a one-sided wipe, I think it may be ok. If it comes down to it though, I am going to cut 1 or 2 of them for another creature because even though this is a control deck, I feel like it is a tiny bit creature light at the moment after all those cuts. The list is current now so any opinions on the final product would be lovely. Especially if you have any places that more good creatures could sneak their way in or some cards that I missed in the adding process.
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
You really should never feel bad about making cuts that I'm a fan of. My list has evolved over quite some time, and while cards like Kumano are certainly defensible choices they are by no means necessary for the deck to run. He's also something of a meta call at this point. Recursion strategies are very popular around here, so exiling makes all the difference in the world. I've also got a bit of a soft spot for him, as he was briefly the general for the deck.
But now, on to other things. AVR is entirely spoiled as of last night, so it's a good time to sift through and mention all of the goodies this set is bringing to Jaya and mono-R in general. Keep in mind, even the ones I'm excited about are still conditional on playing well. There are a couple where that's mostly a formality, but I've been surprised before. Cards are tagged despite the fact that those don't work yet because that won't be the case forever.
Bonfire of the Damned - This is obviously ridiculously good at it's miracle cost, and is solid without it. There's not a ton of card draw in mono-R (yet. This set helps), so the miracle shouldn't be that uncommon a thing. Jaya already plays off the top on a pretty regular basis, but actually casting what's being drawn might be new and different.
Dangerous Wager - Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. Instant speed draw two. Discard your hand doesn't matter. Fill it with phoenix, Squee, play out your hand first, whatever. Jaya already wants to run what recursion she can, so this is an easy, easy choice.
Falkenrath Exterminator - Interesting, at the very least. Doesn't seem likely to survive long enough to really become a force and might take waaay too long to grow up, but I could see him doing alright. Any source of repeatable removal, especially a source that grows into a half decent threat and clears its own path, is worth consideration.
Lightning Mauler - Passes haste around to all your guys as they come in. Generally worse than the current options for this deck, but haste is very important.
Mad Prophet - Another easy one. Slightly worse than looters and miles ahead of anything else red has right now. Plays very well with recursion to just draw cards.
Malignus - Doesn't play particularly well with anything in this deck. The best thing it has going for it is that it's likely to survive early Infernos, but other than that it's just a big beater without evasion. Pass.
Reforge the Soul - It's Wheel of Fortune. I happily play Chandra Ablaze with the prospect of getting nothing more than her mini-Wheel off. I would probably play this card if it cost six and had no miracle cost. Shoo-in.
Rite of Ruin - Expensive and requires you to already be in a better position to be really good. The selling point of this for my build is the extremely low creature count, which makes it more likely to just take three creatures from everyone else. I'm willing to try it, but I am not holding out much hope for it.
Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded - Could definitely be solid. Looting when there's a bunch of recursion in the deck is always good, even with a random discard. The various land finding engines mean that I've frequently seen hands that had 4-5 Mountains, Squee, and maybe a business card or two. The odds of Tibalt having a positive effect on my hand at that point are very good, and I'm more than willing to risk it. The other two abilities are nice but shouldn't be expected to go off if they would ever be relevant. If they do, say because of repeated board wipes from Jaya, that's just gravy.
Zealous Conscripts - It's Word of Seizing plus a body minus split second. These guys can definitely cause some damage. Also an infinite combo with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker if you've got a more goblin/etb focus going on. Certainly worth a look.
Cavern of Souls - Just because this deck relies so heavily on Jaya. Once she's on the board, she can generally nuke herself or be sacced away in case of tuck, but this forces her through Hinder and Spell Crumple. I'm not sure if that's worth taking a Mountain out for, but it's worth a second look.
And there's AVR as it relates to Jaya. If I missed something, let me know. I'll probably have my deck updated sometime around the release (can't afford the prerelease), so changes to that and little updates to the primer should happen not too long after that, barring life getting in the way.
In
I still haven't tried out some of the AVR stuff (Conscripts, Tibalt, and Bonfire) and I need more time with Wager, but I have a pretty good idea of how they fit into the plan and I'm pretty confident that I'm reading them correctly this time.
Also, I'm thinking Rings of Brighthearth might be the best card in the deck after a game the other night. Copying fetches, Expedition Map (to grab Valakut + Vesuva), Coalition Relic charges, and many other things besides. It's just a ridiculously good card with this many activated abilities. Braid of Fire was also an all-star.
I think I'm going to hunt for a spot for Swiftfoot Boots, because how are those not already here, but it's going to wait until I get some more time with the AVR stuff to make sure I'm not misevaluating those.
Level 1 Judge
4: block target attacking creature.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
On Mythic Rares: "What's next, Wizards will print six golden Black Lotuses and randomly place them in boosters, and if someone gets one, they get to tour the Wizards facility?"
Wydwen|Edric|Sakashima|Marrow-Gnawer|Hazezon
8.5 Tails|Seton|Rasputin|Doran|Gisela|Karona|Márton
Have you considered Stuffy Doll? He works well with Jaya, Furnace of Rath, Gratuitous Violence and all the damage based sweepers, especially Blasphemous Act. Plus even without those he's a good value card that can deter attacks and allows other opponents to circumvent the blockers of the chosen player by swinging at you instead.
That's a reasonable point on Kuldotha. Tossing in something else to help close out games is probably a good call. I may need to rethink Squee, sacrilegious as that may be. I'm not a fan of including cards that only serve as combo pieces (the reason Distorting Lens never seems to stick around) and Squee does break that rule. I rarely have a problem finding cards to toss, especially with the love red has gotten recently.
Canyons just doesn't do enough to lose a mountain or a different nonbasic for it. It would be more or less exclusively for Jaya eot, and I'd rather run Boots in addition to Greaves for the added protection. At this point, my mountain count is getting low enough that the doublers, Skred, and Sheets are losing some potency.
Thank you! Furnace is actually only listed once, but I mention it (with tag) again when talking about Repercussion, because it has some amazing synergy.
Thanks! Stuffy Doll was on my radar at some point, then I didn't have one and forgot about it. Back onto the radar it goes. I'll keep an eye out for one, because that does seem like a good fit here.
I also updated the primer significantly, though most of the changes are formatting things that hopefully make it look a little cleaner and easier to read. The Table of Contents is something that probably should have been there all along, but I forgot about the tags that let it exist until I was helpfully reminded by bobthefunny earlier.
Now that M13 is entirely spoiled, it's time for the quarterly evaluation of new cards!
Greater Gargadon → Trading Post: The Post has a lot more utility than the Gargadon, which is more important than a big beater in this deck. It still works as a sac outlet, so I'm not losing anything there. There's a possibility that Gargadon comes back at some point, but Trading Post is promising enough that I need to try it out.
Kuldotha Phoenix → Firewing Phoenix: Losing a hasty beater in exchange for something with more flexibility about when it recurs and additional discard fodder. If Kuldotha didn't have the upkeep restriction, I would be a lot less likely to cut it. Sadly, it does. Any new phoenix is pretty much guaranteed a test in this deck.
Dangerous Wager → Wild Guess: Seems easy. I think I'm going to find another cut for the Wager later on, but right now I want to see how Guess works and this is an easy way to do that.
Primer updates to follow after I've actually had a chance to play with the cards.
I've been vaguely interested in building mono-red for a fair while, it's just that there's no red general yet that really clicks with me.
One thing about Red that makes me hesitant is that there seems to be several cards that you just have to run to even make Red vaguely viable, like Chandra Ablaze, Gamble, etc. Has that been your experience? (Thank Jeebus for Cockatrice being free, lol)
No Mindclaw Shaman testing? I suppose it's not the kind of deck for him, though.
--- Meren of Clan Nel Toth --- Jhoira of the Ghitu --- Prime Speaker Zegana ---
--- Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief --- Ghoulcaller Gisa --- Akroma, Angel of Fury --- Titania, Protector of Argoth ---
You can get around running some of the wheels by going heavier of artifact draw, heavier on recursion, or making use of the ever-increasing amount of card selection red is getting from WotC these days. If your threats are more powerful and more resilient than your opponents' threats, the fact that they're likely drawing more cards is less important.
It's more difficult to dodge the lack of tutors. There are a couple approaches here. First is to run a general/tribal theme that covers for you. Godo, Bandit Warlord and Zirilan of the Claw make the deck more consistent simply by leading it, and any red deck can make use of goblins wit hall their assorted utility and tutors. The second option is to find your gameplan and focus in. If every card in your deck contributes to what you're trying to do, it's less important to be able to tutor for specifics. Including redundant piece after redundant piece can seem to limit your options a little bit, but it's going to make the deck more competitive in the long run.
I run them because (a) I'm looking for all the card draw I can get, and I rely on a few pieces to speed up my win condition here, and (b) because this deck plays around the downsides (typically involving discarding) by running just about every recursion element available in mono-R. My Zirilan deck (which I don't think I ever posted) ran a couple of them, but was a far cry from including everything that typically finds its way into mono-R lists. It still did fine, about on the level I expect a very rough concept to do.
Long story short, I don't think that the "autoincludes" are strictly necessary to play and enjoy mono-R, but there's a reason they see such widespread play. What you want the deck to do and what your meta looks like have an effect as well.
On Shaman in here, it doesn't really contribute to the decks plan. I can't reuse it easily and a one shot mostly random effect isn't worth the card to me. There are a bunch of things I would rather find the space for before I would add this guy in here. Seems like a ton of fun in some kind of UR or BR deck, where you can pop him off several times in a game/turn.
Blech. Wordier than I wanted that to be.
I can dig it on the "nothing is an auto-include" thing, but like you said some cards just always show up in mono red.
That's a good point, redundancy is good.
Yeah, I was wondering and then realized that this probably isn't the deck for him.
Thanks for the insights on Red
--- Meren of Clan Nel Toth --- Jhoira of the Ghitu --- Prime Speaker Zegana ---
--- Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief --- Ghoulcaller Gisa --- Akroma, Angel of Fury --- Titania, Protector of Argoth ---
I don't like running cards that only function as combo pieces. Jaya tends to get hated off the table a lot already because she holds down so many generals (all the blue ones, any with < 3 toughness, and various creature-centric strategies) and I don't really want to add a card that's only live when she survives. The prospect of a repeatable Vindicate is nice, but it didn't work out well in practice.
edit:
The other thing to do now is talk about RTR! As a multicolor set, there aren't likely to be a ton of gems for a mono-R list, but Jaya is still getting some love.
Mizzium Mortars - Spot removal and a pseudo board wipe. My years of Jaya playing have shown me that small burn is actually very underrated in EDH, and this has the potential to be a lot bigger. The downside is that this doesn't do much that Jaya doesn't already do, and I don't run enough creatures for that part to be super relevant. Might be good, but I'm not rushing out for a copy.
Racecourse Fury - Much more exciting. Haste is hugely powerful for a general with three t abilities, and this is a harder-to-kill/lower profile option for it. I'd happily slap this on a land. If it gets destroyed, then an opponent burned a piece of enchantment removal on this rather than something like Repercussion or a piece of land removal on a basic instead of something like Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle or Kher Keep. I have high hopes for this one.
Street Spasm - Like Mizzium Mortars, but more expensive and restrictive. I think Jaya has this covered, and I would go for the Mortars over this.
Utvara Hellkite - An expensive beater without any additional utility. If it and its tokens didn't die to everything including my own general, I'd be more tempted. It's not what I'm looking for with this deck.
Vandalblast - Seems very good. Artifact hate is always relevant, and this is good at any stage in the game. Sorcery is a little painful, but the effect is good enough to overlook that.
Codex Shredder - The lone artifact and it's a good one. Regrowth is nothing to turn your nose up at, even if it's expensive. This deck runs a few ways to reuse artifacts, so this could be solid. The fact that it turns off topdeck tutors is an attractive little side perk.
So there aren't a lot of options here, which is not surprising given the set. The ones that I am interested in (Racecourse Fury, Vandalblast, and Codex Shredder) look very good, so I'll be happy to try and find places for them.
I actually haven't yet, because I haven't picked one up. Pure theory (and seeing it across the table), it seems good but not vital. It is certainly on my mental shortlist of cards to try out in this deck. This deck has actually gotten fairly good at keeping a full hand, though it's frequently full of basic lands.
I've actually been considering Scroll Rack for that very reason recently.
I'm a red mage at heart, and while Ashling has been my pride and joy for mono red, it plays very similarly to Jaya. This primer has given me a few ideas that I've used, so thank you for that. My most recent incarnation of Ashling included a Staff of Nin and it was actually pretty useful. There are a shocking amount of pingable creatures people throw out in EDH, which is an added bonus to the fact that it's also a colorless Phyrexian Arena without the pain.
I say give it a shot and if you don't like it, then don't use it. It's been a good addition in my book, though =)
RRRAshling, the PilgrimRRR
UUUThadda Adel, AcquisitorUUU