No prob. As for Sakura, it seems to work fine in this build but I can't afford to run any basic land ramp being that I only run one of each. I'm thinking of switching thran dynamo for mana vault and gilded lotus for simic signet. Thoughts?
No prob. As for Sakura, it seems to work fine in this build but I can't afford to run any basic land ramp being that I only run one of each. I'm thinking of switching thran dynamo for mana vault and gilded lotus for simic signet. Thoughts?
I think that depends on how often you nuke the table with Pernicious Deed, which is likely determined by how much artifact abuse is in your meta. There is a ton of artifact abuse in my meta, which makes Pernicious Deed and Devastation Tide a regular thing for me. As such, back when I was ramping more aggressively, I almost always preferred fetch sorcery over rocks. Since you run so many non-basics, rocks appear more crucial and hence I would say Vault and Signet are the way to go.
As an alternative, depending on how high of a priority draw engines like Library, Arena, Damia, and Necropotence are for you, how about running Azusa to unload lands that are choking up your hand? I think Summer Bloom deserves a solid evaluation too.
Mana vault is awesome add it. It's seems meh but 5 drops turn 2 is awesome if never cut lotus or thran though they are too good at getting to mana barrier. I don't like signets when I can run 4 2 drop land search only 1 is basic. Yea I run 2 of each basic so I can do these things and crucible engine keeps going with a single color fetch. I don't like signets because people in my meta play them and I like blowing then up with deed. The thing that's nice with them is the solring/vault/crypt opener with a signet which are nice. I did a Ton of gold fishing and I always wanted farseek/three visits/natures lore in my hand more often Sakura fits the bill and in a deck as blue as mine he's normally an island but he's still got the option of any color. If u run a signet and it had blue I'm sure it's about same effect. And exploration is AMAZING I'd defintly run it first I agree also I noticed no forbid swap something for that ASAP.
Forbid is not my friend in my meta. They play soooo much creature removal it's not funny. So i would counter a couple of spells with it, have no cards in hand and then Damia would be killed leaving me with no cards in hand and no draw engine.
Should I cut Skyshroud Claim then? Man, my list is too tight to make cuts in anymore.
Yea no Skyshroud claim is better than all of those no way. Your list is extremely tight I run a few less control spells abd a few more ramp spells than you. How has yawgmoths will been for you? It's been in my list forever and I almost always pars it away and it won me a few games but was uneeded or dead in my hand most games maybe cut that for exploration you need vault too I want so say exsanguinate but you won't go for that hmm his SDT been ? I personally hate using that card but I know it's good :/ yea your list is tight I'd get the op 1 drops your missing with as fast as your winning and racing combo not playing vs control I'd say yawg win probly not that great or at least should be restock/all suns
I'm goint to try cutting exsanguinate for Teachings, Sphinx for Time Spiral, and blue sun for stroke.
Yawgwin is soo good. It's better than restock and all suns put together. If your casting tooth with exactly 9 mana and only have yawgwin in hand and no other creatures on the field (happened one time) you still win cause you then cast yawgwin and tooth again. Also if your mana rocks get blown up you can play a fetchland and all of your rocks and maybe a creature with it. It's the best recursion card in all of EDH. One guy on the wizards boards (who I would say is the best EDH player on those boards) also agrees with me.
I may not need Time Spiral or Stroke though so I might just add the 1 drop ramp instead instead?
Havengul Lich should be in here, and it's blowing my mind that he is not. The ability to repeatedly recur all your creatures late game - with flash, no less - is absurd. And you can recur him with Volrath's or Unholy Grotto.
Havengul Lich is a late game win-con, but my lord is it a win-con.
Realms Uncharted + Life From The Loam. Drop restock, you have better options here.
Havengul is a little unnecessary for what we are trying to achieve. That card is a win more card. Realms Loam is not what we want to be spending our mana on either.
One thing to consider here is land count.
Wizards refers Commander rules to dragonhighlander.net. Rule 8.4 invokes the the Partial Paris method. Factor in this, plus the lower curve of Damia, the amount of draw and mana acceleration spells, and a land count of 36 starts to look excessive.
35, or even 34 lands might be worth consideration.
The fetchland and mana rock thing is really yagwins only saving grace in my deck to be honest. Lots of cards win with tooth and nail for 9 any recursion any card in your combo and any card that tutors or has reach all make tooth and nail a win at 9 restock a tutor anything just go infinite mana and go get runescar. In my experience when we get to 9 mana its game over. Restock is pretty damn good as far as consistency in my list. Like honestly the only time i was happy to see yawg over witness regrowth or restock is when im forced to deed my own mana rocks. In general if my mana rocks die its to something like return to dust and they are gone. Restock is stupidly good with intuition and regrowth is important for combo loops and is just better. The way i see it is without mana rocks in the yard the only way Yawg win was that great in this build was if i already had mana beyond my mana barrier and restock or any recursion into my yard would still win me the game. For me it was like this Pay 3 mana now you have to pay the cost of the card on this turn which if your mana just got nuked is alot, and still unless its solring or crypt its not faster. In this deck I only really want 3 things counter spells ( which it does not help with) mana which it is great at getting back or flashing back but at a pretty high cost. And tutors/ reach/wincons which it still hits but it exiles. So i guess in short the reason i cut this card after having it in my deck for years was because Like many of my other changes recently it was not consistently good. Like Azsua sometimes it was the PERFECT card and won me a game no other card could and i liked having it because i could tutor for it when i needed it. The problem for me is i rarely find my self in any situation where i need it. And honestly if i lost a sol ring and a gilded lotus and im still somehow at 7 mana so i can play both then pop my demonic tutor to go get my win then yea its great but this happens like once in 30 or so games and i still probly win on the same turn with restock, and that's about it. Even then would restocking for sol ring and gilded be that bad ? no and if im only at 5 mana because i don't know someone blew up my mana rocks it is better. Not to mention the number of times restock in my intuition pulls ends a game don't forget about our "backup" wincon shard witness warp at 9 as well.
Also lich is not great i barley run any creatures and late game for me is turn 7
Edit : not only does this land count feel solid at a curve of 3.59 but we are a deck that races to 9 mana i really feel 36 is the magic number not to mention i love all the lands in my list right now my mana base is really tight i always get what i need in that its almost perfectly balanced but with my ramp and fetches i can tilt my mana toward blue by fetching and ramping. The first 2 times i fetch and sometimes all game i grab blue.
I'm goint to try cutting exsanguinate for Teachings, Sphinx for Time Spiral, and blue sun for stroke.
Yawgwin is soo good. It's better than restock and all suns put together. If your casting tooth with exactly 9 mana and only have yawgwin in hand and no other creatures on the field (happened one time) you still win cause you then cast yawgwin and tooth again. Also if your mana rocks get blown up you can play a fetchland and all of your rocks and maybe a creature with it. It's the best recursion card in all of EDH. One guy on the wizards boards (who I would say is the best EDH player on those boards) also agrees with me.
I may not need Time Spiral or Stroke though so I might just add the 1 drop ramp instead instead?
Edit: And yes Yawgwin always gets paris'd away
Imo you should do
+ teachings
- exsang
-Magosi
+Exploration or mana vault (in your list i think exploration is way better than vault but both could use a slot though has gilded drake been for you so far have you got any testing in with it yet?)
-BSN
+Stroke ( i like having both capsize and stroke open or your win if you cut exsang in case capsize gets RFG)
Yea you run dead eye who is way better in your build in general so more buissness test the drake/spiral/ forbid/ three visits / farseek/ in your last slot
I played at FNM tonite went 1 for 3 the good spike player won a game and zur won a game in reality zur could have won all 3 games but tutors wrong over and over. I had instant win in hand by turn 4-5 each game but due to counter spells etc it got nasty and i couldnot use my kill with 3 pleyrs passig with blue mana we played 5 player tonite. . We had another really good player playing with us tonite but he doesnt try to win he plays his "judge deck" with a bunch of crazy rules one game i had a krosan grip to answer a bloodmoon locking me out i pass and 2 people drop magus of the moon right after :/ then humitly on top of that, which i now know that with layers the stuff on board was still mountains i eventually all is dust to break a STUPID board with opulence a nutered viscous shadow and lots of dudes. i still lost this game. I told the guy who i play with who is really good at magic to come on here and look at my build so maybe we can get some insight from him all his suggestions thus far have been pretty good he thinks i MUST add merchant scroll and for out meta Knowledge exploitation which is 7 mana stretch. DAN come fix my deck plz
@ death yea its probly a good cut the more i talk with my buddy dan the mro he tells me if ti cost more than 4 it better win you the game reflection does this but you normally have to pass turn i wont cut it becuase the art on it is alot like the pictures my wife draws so i cant cut it
I'd suggest cutting half your utility lands for colored sources. I'd also suggest cutting Jace for Tezzeret the Seeker, adding Grim Monolith and Basalt Monolith. And more outlets for infinite mana. Glancing through your list I only saw Capsize as your ownly outlet. Mindshrieker is a potential option. I'd add Survival of the Fittest. Add Phantasmal Image as another Palinchron infinite mana engine. A lot of your high cc spells which don't win you the game outright can be cut: Restock, Time Stretch, Rite of Replication, Cryptic Command, Mystical Teachings. Cultivate and Kodama's Reach are really good ramp, 2 for 1, better than Farseek. I'd probably cut Exploration, Crucible, and Scroll Rack too. They don't do much by themselves.
I'd suggest cutting half your utility lands for colored sources. I'd also suggest cutting Jace for Tezzeret the Seeker, adding Grim Monolith and Basalt Monolith. And more outlets for infinite mana. Glancing through your list I only saw Capsize as your ownly outlet. Mindshrieker is a potential option. I'd add Survival of the Fittest. Add Phantasmal Image as another Palinchron infinite mana engine. A lot of your high cc spells which don't win you the game outright can be cut: Restock, Time Stretch, Rite of Replication, Cryptic Command, Mystical Teachings. Cultivate and Kodama's Reach are really good ramp, 2 for 1, better than Farseek. I'd probably cut Exploration, Crucible, and Scroll Rack too. They don't do much by themselves.
Some things I agree with here. Some things I don't.
Monoliths. Yuck. One way to go infinite: Palinchron + Image. Screw everything else. If a piece get's rfg'd, (which means you misplayed), Praetor's Grasp for an alt combo piece. Alt wincons include a Forbid lock, Bribery for Eldrazi, kick Rite of Replication, or let someone build their battlefield, survive a swing out with Sudden Spoiling, then Reins of Power back in their face.
I agree about Restock, Time Stretch, Cryptic Command, and Mystical Teachings. Too costly. I'd run Pongify, Sylvan Library, Nature's Claim, and Reanimate over these any day.
Ramp is tricky. On the one hand, Reach and Cultivate are great, but they can sorta choke your hand when you're trying to get Damia online. Lands in hand is just bad in Damia, which is why Exploration is pretty decent with lots of draw.
Crucible is a toy I've never played with, so no opinion. However, Scroll Rack is just hot damn in a control deck that likes to keep a full mitten of cards. Whatchu smokin Swift?
Some things I agree with here. Some things I don't.
Monoliths. Yuck. One way to go infinite: Palinchron + Image. Screw everything else. If a piece get's rfg'd, (which means you misplayed), Praetor's Grasp for an alt combo piece. Alt wincons include a Forbid lock, Bribery for Eldrazi, kick Rite of Replication, or let someone build their battlefield, survive a swing out with Sudden Spoiling, then Reins of Power back in their face.
I agree about Restock, Time Stretch, Cryptic Command, and Mystical Teachings. Too costly. I'd run Pongify, Sylvan Library, Nature's Claim, and Reanimate over these any day.
Ramp is tricky. On the one hand, Reach and Cultivate are great, but they can sorta choke your hand when you're trying to get Damia online. Lands in hand is just bad in Damia, which is why Exploration is pretty decent with lots of draw.
Crucible is a toy I've never played with, so no opinion. However, Scroll Rack is just hot damn in a control deck that likes to keep a full mitten of cards. Whatchu smokin Swift?
The artifact pieces help get Damia online earlier and double as combo pieces. Exploration and Crucible both depend on other variables like having land in hand or in the yard. Both of which may not be to your liking. Would you rather have Cultivate or Exploration in an opening hand of 2 lands? I know which I would rather have. And if you have Damia online you don't need either. Scroll Rack is also a conditional piece. Its good if you have a lot of cards in hand. What do you do if Damia is tucked, you've got no hand, and are in top deck mode?
The artifact pieces help get Damia online earlier and double as combo pieces. Exploration and Crucible both depend on other variables like having land in hand or in the yard. Both of which may not be to your liking. Would you rather have Cultivate or Exploration in an opening hand of 2 lands? I know which I would rather have. And if you have Damia online you don't need either. Scroll Rack is also a conditional piece. Its good if you have a lot of cards in hand. What do you do if Damia is tucked, you've got no hand, and are in top deck mode?
Good points.
In regard to the artifacts, it's probably my disdain for ramp cropping up again.
All I can say about Scroll Rack, is that if someone runs out of cards playing Damia, they should probably find a different general to play.
The name of the game here is CA.
I wouldn't blame them though. Damia is challenging to pilot.
Cultivate and kodama are bad here click on deck stats link I have way to many 3 drops as is and 3 drops are bad. You want turn1-2 accel my meta is fast waiting till t3 to ramp 1 basic tapped is not good enough. And if a accelerate on turn 1-2 I want a 4-5 drop I need to cut 3 drops not add them. The tezzeret mama rock crap is pretty much what every good player I know irl says to do but I just don't see it being much better, I think I'd need to see it Ro understand ... Dan if you look at this soon elaborate for us. Replication is a win outlet like capsize do cutting that means stroke meh . I do think u need phantasmal image I addition to clex not instead of .. Merchant scroll gets mana drain at 2 that enough to add it alone. Dunno he thought brainstorm is still worth playing as well. Dunno how I'd make cuts list is tight jn it's current state.
I dunno the more I think about here's how my games went down one game u has instant win turn4 but it took me till turn 8 doing a sucide potency and Ur letting me live a turn to combo off ok. The next game was blood moon / magus / humility from turn 3 till 10 I was at 7 mama t3 and never had colors to do much died after breaking lock with all is dust. The last game I took a commanding lead drop a turn 3 potency with 7-8 mana in play I can win next turn the zur played b4 and hit t3 ge tutors arcane labs and pass untapped :/ on my turn I drop seedborn muse and go to 7 since I can't combo with labs the player to my left says I have crank combo counter his counter he's dead. So in short I don't think my deck needs improved I need people to hate it less I dunno lol.
Edit: mainly my meta is rough and they are playing smarter and better and more blue each week I don't think I can resolve this problem and still use a 9 mana kill spell so maybe I'm at good enough status I still want cuts for at least merchant scroll and also restock is good in here
Damia, Sage of Stone
Ertai, the Corrupted
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Omnath, Locus of Mana
I think that depends on how often you nuke the table with Pernicious Deed, which is likely determined by how much artifact abuse is in your meta. There is a ton of artifact abuse in my meta, which makes Pernicious Deed and Devastation Tide a regular thing for me. As such, back when I was ramping more aggressively, I almost always preferred fetch sorcery over rocks. Since you run so many non-basics, rocks appear more crucial and hence I would say Vault and Signet are the way to go.
As an alternative, depending on how high of a priority draw engines like Library, Arena, Damia, and Necropotence are for you, how about running Azusa to unload lands that are choking up your hand? I think Summer Bloom deserves a solid evaluation too.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
Damia, Sage of Stone
Ertai, the Corrupted
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Omnath, Locus of Mana
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Should I cut Skyshroud Claim then? Man, my list is too tight to make cuts in anymore.
Damia, Sage of Stone
Ertai, the Corrupted
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Omnath, Locus of Mana
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Yawgwin is soo good. It's better than restock and all suns put together. If your casting tooth with exactly 9 mana and only have yawgwin in hand and no other creatures on the field (happened one time) you still win cause you then cast yawgwin and tooth again. Also if your mana rocks get blown up you can play a fetchland and all of your rocks and maybe a creature with it. It's the best recursion card in all of EDH. One guy on the wizards boards (who I would say is the best EDH player on those boards) also agrees with me.
I may not need Time Spiral or Stroke though so I might just add the 1 drop ramp instead instead?
Edit: And yes Yawgwin always gets paris'd away
Damia, Sage of Stone
Ertai, the Corrupted
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Omnath, Locus of Mana
Havengul Lich is a late game win-con, but my lord is it a win-con.
Realms Uncharted + Life From The Loam. Drop restock, you have better options here.
Damia, Sage of Stone
Ertai, the Corrupted
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Omnath, Locus of Mana
Wizards refers Commander rules to dragonhighlander.net. Rule 8.4 invokes the the Partial Paris method. Factor in this, plus the lower curve of Damia, the amount of draw and mana acceleration spells, and a land count of 36 starts to look excessive.
35, or even 34 lands might be worth consideration.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Edit : not only does this land count feel solid at a curve of 3.59 but we are a deck that races to 9 mana i really feel 36 is the magic number not to mention i love all the lands in my list right now my mana base is really tight i always get what i need in that its almost perfectly balanced but with my ramp and fetches i can tilt my mana toward blue by fetching and ramping. The first 2 times i fetch and sometimes all game i grab blue.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Imo you should do
+ teachings
- exsang
-Magosi
+Exploration or mana vault (in your list i think exploration is way better than vault but both could use a slot though has gilded drake been for you so far have you got any testing in with it yet?)
-BSN
+Stroke ( i like having both capsize and stroke open or your win if you cut exsang in case capsize gets RFG)
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Damia, Sage of Stone
Ertai, the Corrupted
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Omnath, Locus of Mana
- magosi
- exsanguinate
- drake
- bsz
+ teachings
+ mana vault
+ exploration
+ stroke ( in all honesty this ones minor but I still feel better uuu Is not hard when we always fetch blue)
And then I can't really improve your list it looks totally solid then
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Damia, Sage of Stone
Ertai, the Corrupted
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Omnath, Locus of Mana
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Damia, Sage of Stone
Ertai, the Corrupted
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Omnath, Locus of Mana
@ death yea its probly a good cut the more i talk with my buddy dan the mro he tells me if ti cost more than 4 it better win you the game reflection does this but you normally have to pass turn i wont cut it becuase the art on it is alot like the pictures my wife draws so i cant cut it
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
Some things I agree with here. Some things I don't.
Monoliths. Yuck. One way to go infinite: Palinchron + Image. Screw everything else. If a piece get's rfg'd, (which means you misplayed), Praetor's Grasp for an alt combo piece. Alt wincons include a Forbid lock, Bribery for Eldrazi, kick Rite of Replication, or let someone build their battlefield, survive a swing out with Sudden Spoiling, then Reins of Power back in their face.
I agree about Restock, Time Stretch, Cryptic Command, and Mystical Teachings. Too costly. I'd run Pongify, Sylvan Library, Nature's Claim, and Reanimate over these any day.
Ramp is tricky. On the one hand, Reach and Cultivate are great, but they can sorta choke your hand when you're trying to get Damia online. Lands in hand is just bad in Damia, which is why Exploration is pretty decent with lots of draw.
Crucible is a toy I've never played with, so no opinion. However, Scroll Rack is just hot damn in a control deck that likes to keep a full mitten of cards. Whatchu smokin Swift?
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
The artifact pieces help get Damia online earlier and double as combo pieces. Exploration and Crucible both depend on other variables like having land in hand or in the yard. Both of which may not be to your liking. Would you rather have Cultivate or Exploration in an opening hand of 2 lands? I know which I would rather have. And if you have Damia online you don't need either. Scroll Rack is also a conditional piece. Its good if you have a lot of cards in hand. What do you do if Damia is tucked, you've got no hand, and are in top deck mode?
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
Good points.
In regard to the artifacts, it's probably my disdain for ramp cropping up again.
All I can say about Scroll Rack, is that if someone runs out of cards playing Damia, they should probably find a different general to play.
The name of the game here is CA.
I wouldn't blame them though. Damia is challenging to pilot.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Edit: mainly my meta is rough and they are playing smarter and better and more blue each week I don't think I can resolve this problem and still use a 9 mana kill spell so maybe I'm at good enough status I still want cuts for at least merchant scroll and also restock is good in here
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429