Speaking of, have you considered Time Stretch rather than Time Warp for your combo piece? It's equally as efficient, but takes a little more setup. However, on it's own, two extra turns can be enough time to win without further abuse, as to where just one more might not be. If nothing else, there's a good chance you'll kill at least one player (assuming you play the 11th land on one of the two turns afterwards) and severely damage someone else with Dakkon.
10 mana is ugly though, that I do understand. My deck ramps up a bit faster than yours also primarily due to the inclusions of Walking Atlas, Terrain Generator and the new Dreamscape Artist. It's one of my 4 or 5 big spells alloted toward game ending, so I don't mind the expensive spell since most of my deck is <3CMC for Sun Titan
I haven't considered it, mainly because of the 10cmc. If I stick something that big in, it'll probably be Ulamog.
Probably a good choice too. I don't like running ulamog primarily because he's very hard to grave-abuse, and in some cases I like my graveyard a bit stocked (Living Death is a thing in my group). I always feel bad using him for whatever reason, so I normally opt for Kozilek.
Another reason I favored Stretch over Warp was because extra turn magic that isn't A Stitch in Time and Savor the Moment are very frowned upon in my group and often draw a ton of hate. Time Stretch is expensive and by the time I use it I'm going to be in a good position already if not the lead threat.
Have you considered Mindslaver lock? you already have the prerequisite Academy Ruins, though it only targeting one player is a huge downside.
Oh, and I'd steer away from Necrotic Sliver. It's a good budget card, but realistically it's a 6CMC Vindicate, in which case it's only serving as a 2nd-of Angel of Despair that sacs itself. It's still good, don't get me wrong, but I personally feel like it's a slot better saved for something of the likes of Phyrexian Ingester(which is basically Duplicant#2). The does offer a early game option though... (BTW: Vindicate is the lowest price I've seen it for in quite a while, at about 20$ on SCG)
Thoughts: Trading one type of removal for another, we’ll see how it goes. Also added Time Warp for the infinite turn combo, and I like Ghast in another deck, so I’ll see if it’s worth it (although outside of the small boost in mana and Capsize, I don’t really see much use for it.)
Ethersworn is not very good removal card in my experience I used it when I first started playing edh and even then it was a bad easily cutable card it's too slow it's body's near irrelevant and even once you pay him out you might get an activation before he dies. I still don't know how this deck doesn't want necro how often are you at 7 cards do you just slow play the deck ? I like time warp in here for sure especially since your general can hit the 1-2 shot zone on a slower game and combo or not it can be use too one shot the largest threat off the board.
Ethersworn is not very good removal card in my experience I used it when I first started playing edh and even then it was a bad easily cutable card it's too slow it's body's near irrelevant and even once you pay him out you might get an activation before he dies. I still don't know how this deck doesn't want necro how often are you at 7 cards do you just slow play the deck ? I like time warp in here for sure especially since your general can hit the 1-2 shot zone on a slower game and combo or not it can be use too one shot the largest threat off the board.
If I remember correctly, I ran Ethersworn and cut it, so I may end up cutting it again. Still on the fence about Necropotence, especially the triple black. Eventually I'll get enough testing to say for sure though.
Unless you're running Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, which is still good as a mana fix in any xB deck, Crypt Ghast won't shine as much as you'd like. Thanks to the amount of land fetches, you can gaurentee he gets you at least 1-3 more mana, which is great for 4 mana, but it seems kind of hallow in comparison to its potential lol.
Ethersworn is good, but mana intensive. With haste, it's 5WUB to Disenchant something. Granted, it has the potential of doing silly things if it sticks around, but it's not worth a slot on it's own over something like Return to Dust.
Unless you're running Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, which is still good as a mana fix in any xB deck, Crypt Ghast won't shine as much as you'd like. Thanks to the amount of land fetches, you can gaurentee he gets you at least 1-3 more mana, which is great for 4 mana, but it seems kind of hallow in comparison to its potential lol.
Ethersworn is good, but mana intensive. With haste, it's 5WUB to Disenchant something. Granted, it has the potential of doing silly things if it sticks around, but it's not worth a slot on it's own over something like Return to Dust.
Yeah, I don't expect them to shine, just be worth a slot vs their former cards. I'm also testing Crucible of Worlds as a replacement for Thawing Glaciers. So far I've been pleased when goldfishing. Ghast has been decent as well.
Yeah, I don't expect them to shine, just be worth a slot vs their former cards. I'm also testing Crucible of Worlds as a replacement for Thawing Glaciers. So far I've been pleased when goldfishing. Ghast has been decent as well.
Considering you've most of the zendikar/onslaught fetches, a crucible basically acts as a better glaciers in the first place, but thawing does take a land slot. I'd use both for redundency. It's hard to cut lands for non-lands in a land-matters deck, even if the non-land produces lands. (man, that was a mouthful of saying "land". You get the point though). It's all dependant really on how consistently you're getting lands into play as it is.
Considering you've most of the zendikar/onslaught fetches, a crucible basically acts as a better glaciers in the first place, but thawing does take a land slot. I'd use both for redundency. It's hard to cut lands for non-lands in a land-matters deck, even if the non-land produces lands. (man, that was a mouthful of saying "land". You get the point though). It's all dependant really on how consistently you're getting lands into play as it is.
Very true. Here's my comprehensive thoughts on Thawing Glaciers (as it pertains to this type of deck):
Pros:
- Consistent (albeit slow) to-the-battlefield tutor for basic lands
- Has synergy with bouncelands (activate TG, play bounceland, bounce TG)
- Has synergy with Dakkon (activate TG before attacking with Dakkon for the extra 1/1 boost)
- Can get up to two uses a turn with Sword of Feast and Famine
Cons:
- Slow (CIPT without outside influence means you can only use it once every other turn)
- Doesn't tap for mana by itself
- Can lead to clunky opening hands
- Often times you just wish you had the mana rather than TG
Basically, it's boiled down to occasionally it'll get a good workout, and other times it just slows me down because I have it early on, but it still takes three turns to actually get the mana I needed from it. So it's not out for good, just being benched for a few games.
My deck runs mostly basics so it's basically begging for one, but your points are valid. Since your meta has forced you into a more control situation, it's probably good to take it out. I'd still put a land in its place and find a different slot for crucible. Land count is still important, especially in this deck.
My deck runs mostly basics so it's basically begging for one, but your points are valid. Since your meta has forced you into a more control situation, it's probably good to take it out. I'd still put a land in its place and find a different slot for crucible. Land count is still important, especially in this deck.
Very true, and each land removed means a slightly less percentage of times when Druidic Satchel will hit one.
My deck runs mostly basics so it's basically begging for one, but your points are valid. Since your meta has forced you into a more control situation, it's probably good to take it out. I'd still put a land in its place and find a different slot for crucible. Land count is still important, especially in this deck.
Well, I fiddled around with the lands again (going back up to 39), and made some more changes:
Considering you have more control aspects than aggro aspects now, Homeward for Tower was a good call. I often find myself wanting a reliquary tower as well, (mainly when rhystic/remora is out, they are just silly draw engines), but you of all people understand my pain in limited slots for utility lands. My only homeward path is in sedris, which is definately needs it more than daakon, still, being killed by your own commander hurts a lot X_X
As for Necromancy for Crucible, I feel like you could have done better. Necromancy is really powerful simply because it's responsive, but if you feel your control kit is good enough it makes sense.
How's Sphinx of the Steel Wind normally fare for you? I don't have one, and use Magister Sphinx instead, which aids my more aggressive strategy, but the CMC on Steel Wind seems high for what it does, but all of it's abilities work with one another, similar to how Sword of Vengeance does, which I like. Is it worth running over other beatsticks?
Considering you have more control aspects than aggro aspects now, Homeward for Tower was a good call. I often find myself wanting a reliquary tower as well, (mainly when rhystic/remora is out, they are just silly draw engines), but you of all people understand my pain in limited slots for utility lands. My only homeward path is in sedris, which is definately needs it more than daakon, still, being killed by your own commander hurts a lot X_X
As for Necromancy for Crucible, I feel like you could have done better. Necromancy is really powerful simply because it's responsive, but if you feel your control kit is good enough it makes sense.
How's Sphinx of the Steel Wind normally fare for you? I don't have one, and use Magister Sphinx instead, which aids my more aggressive strategy, but the CMC on Steel Wind seems high for what it does, but all of it's abilities work with one another, similar to how Sword of Vengeance does, which I like. Is it worth running over other beatsticks?
I don't really see the need for Magister Sphinx. I've already got other seven drops that will net me more value, and unless someone is going to cast Storm Herd, their life total isn't all that relevant since general damage is my primary win condition. Now, since you're playing with more aggressive creatures, you'll probably want to keep their life totals low.
Me personally, I like Steel Wind because there a whole ton of creatures that will swing into it profitably, so it's a defensive creature. But thanks toe the vigilance, I can still attack to pick my life total back up. The worst scenario I've encountered was when someone cloned it and attacked me. I agree that it's a little high on the cmc, but that's only because we're getting more spoiled in what we expect. After all, it IS a 6/6 with six abilities. Best of all, it's not legendary (hello, Rite of Replication!)
I don't really see the need for Magister Sphinx. I've already got other seven drops that will net me more value, and unless someone is going to cast Storm Herd, their life total isn't all that relevant since general damage is my primary win condition. Now, since you're playing with more aggressive creatures, you'll probably want to keep their life totals low.
Me personally, I like Steel Wind because there a whole ton of creatures that will swing into it profitably, so it's a defensive creature. But thanks toe the vigilance, I can still attack to pick my life total back up. The worst scenario I've encountered was when someone cloned it and attacked me. I agree that it's a little high on the cmc, but that's only because we're getting more spoiled in what we expect. After all, it IS a 6/6 with six abilities. Best of all, it's not legendary (hello, Rite of Replication!)
All valid points, I gave my 8drop beater slot to Lorthos, The Tidemaker which is one of my favorite cards but is so hard to fit into a deck because of his mana intensity. This deck can reliably get him out turn 5-7 and because it's land ramp the following turn if he's still around seals the game up in a unique way. Lorthos taps what he pleases.
Vigilance really is a criminally underrated mechanic though.
So, now that the spoiler season for Dragon's Maze is finally complete, I can give my thoughts on what may be good for Dakkon: Not much, unfortunately.
Render Silent will be an interesting counterspell to test, but in my opinion it's got some pretty stiff competition since I'm not trying to run maximum density of counters.
Obzedat's Aid probably excites me the most, because it's another regrowth effect. More versatile than Unburial Rites, but lacking the flashback, so it may be an easy swap. We'll see.
Far // Away is interesting, but I think it's too situational to make it worth a slot.
What about Notion Thief? I've put together a rough Dromar list based off of your Dakkon list, and I've been debating test this. It seems like a good source of draw in a meta that's Consecrated Sphinx-light.
Obzedat's Aid seems worth testing. I hope to get in some playtesting soon with Prometheus5429, who ironically is an old buddy of mine.
EDIT: Have you ever tried Baleful Strix? I kept one from the Planechase decks I opened last year but haven't found a deck for it yet. It seems like it's got a lot of things going for it: holds a sword well, comes down early, blocks Kaalia and trades with her durdles, and is a decent blink target for Venser. On top of that, Nils Hamm's artwork is pretty boss :p. Thoughts?
What about Notion Thief? I've put together a rough Dromar list based off of your Dakkon list, and I've been debating test this. It seems like a good source of draw in a meta that's Consecrated Sphinx-light.
I haven't put too much thought into Notion Thief, although MTGO still sees it's fair share of the Sphinx, so it may be a liability. It certainly is a fair card to consider though.
Obzedat's Aid seems worth testing. I hope to get in some playtesting soon with Prometheus5429, who ironically is an old buddy of mine.
Agreed. I got a couple of copies because it looked good for a few of my decks, and I'm at a loss as to what I should remove. I really should find a slot because of the fair amount of cards that it'll return.
EDIT: Have you ever tried Baleful Strix? I kept one from the Planechase decks I opened last year but haven't found a deck for it yet. It seems like it's got a lot of things going for it: holds a sword well, comes down early, blocks Kaalia and trades with her durdles, and is a decent blink target for Venser. On top of that, Nils Hamm's artwork is pretty boss :p. Thoughts?
I kept a copy too, because every time I think about building a Pauper deck I think about this guy. I haven't tried it in this deck, but I don't think it's got enough of an effect for this style of deck. I suppose it's worth a trade with Mulldrifter though. I'll lose one card if I bounce it with Venser, but will gain recursion with Academy Ruins and Sun Titan, and it'll make a better deterrent than Mulldrifter does. I don't know if I actually have any with me at this time, so it might have to wait until I get home in the Summer to actually make the switch.
Trying out a shell of this build. It's gonna be a challenge to use it in a heavy MLD setting.
In my build, I'm adding more card draw such as Graveborn Muse, Phyrexian Arena and Bloodgift Demon.
I also added more counters to deal with the LD. Should be fun
I salute your bravery. Those are all solid draw engines, and Necropotence is another to consider (which I'll make room for once I get another copy). Don't forget Faith's Reward, Sacred Ground, and Terra Eternal. You could also run Equinox, but I suspect you won't try to make Dakkon as large as possible.
If you could, I'd love to get some updates and reports in the thread, as well as your build. The info will be good to add to the primer.
Yo! Just wanted to ask if you have considered Grave Titan as a possible Beatstick? (Probably, but I just want to throw it out there as it is my favorite creature of all time!)
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Yo! Just wanted to ask if you have considered Grave Titan as a possible Beatstick? (Probably, but I just want to throw it out there as it is my favorite creature of all time!)
He's pretty good if you like the token production. I probably used him in an early build, and more recently I used Wurmcoil Engine in the slot. But it's a solid creature and agressive builds can make good use of it.
I haven't had a chance to pull the deck out in a while, but I've been playing a little online with a modified version. Once I get back into a regular group I'll probably make edits to the original deck.
Obzedat's Aid is proving to be useful, so I'm going to try to work a place in for it, as well as Grave Titan. I also got a Sword of Light and Shadow online, which I've found a home for in another deck. I'm liking it, so I may look into my sword package (although with a low creature count it's certainly a fine line).
I also want to catalog other people's Dakkon decks. If I don't have yours listed in the original post, let me know and I'll add a link to it.
I haven't considered it, mainly because of the 10cmc. If I stick something that big in, it'll probably be Ulamog.
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Another reason I favored Stretch over Warp was because extra turn magic that isn't A Stitch in Time and Savor the Moment are very frowned upon in my group and often draw a ton of hate. Time Stretch is expensive and by the time I use it I'm going to be in a good position already if not the lead threat.
Have you considered Mindslaver lock? you already have the prerequisite Academy Ruins, though it only targeting one player is a huge downside.
Oh, and I'd steer away from Necrotic Sliver. It's a good budget card, but realistically it's a 6CMC Vindicate, in which case it's only serving as a 2nd-of Angel of Despair that sacs itself. It's still good, don't get me wrong, but I personally feel like it's a slot better saved for something of the likes of Phyrexian Ingester(which is basically Duplicant#2). The does offer a early game option though... (BTW: Vindicate is the lowest price I've seen it for in quite a while, at about 20$ on SCG)
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
In: Crypt Ghast, Ethersworn Adjudicator, Time Warp
Thoughts: Trading one type of removal for another, we’ll see how it goes. Also added Time Warp for the infinite turn combo, and I like Ghast in another deck, so I’ll see if it’s worth it (although outside of the small boost in mana and Capsize, I don’t really see much use for it.)
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If I remember correctly, I ran Ethersworn and cut it, so I may end up cutting it again. Still on the fence about Necropotence, especially the triple black. Eventually I'll get enough testing to say for sure though.
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Ethersworn is good, but mana intensive. With haste, it's 5WUB to Disenchant something. Granted, it has the potential of doing silly things if it sticks around, but it's not worth a slot on it's own over something like Return to Dust.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Yeah, I don't expect them to shine, just be worth a slot vs their former cards. I'm also testing Crucible of Worlds as a replacement for Thawing Glaciers. So far I've been pleased when goldfishing. Ghast has been decent as well.
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Considering you've most of the zendikar/onslaught fetches, a crucible basically acts as a better glaciers in the first place, but thawing does take a land slot. I'd use both for redundency. It's hard to cut lands for non-lands in a land-matters deck, even if the non-land produces lands. (man, that was a mouthful of saying "land". You get the point though). It's all dependant really on how consistently you're getting lands into play as it is.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Very true. Here's my comprehensive thoughts on Thawing Glaciers (as it pertains to this type of deck):
Pros:
- Consistent (albeit slow) to-the-battlefield tutor for basic lands
- Has synergy with bouncelands (activate TG, play bounceland, bounce TG)
- Has synergy with Dakkon (activate TG before attacking with Dakkon for the extra 1/1 boost)
- Can get up to two uses a turn with Sword of Feast and Famine
Cons:
- Slow (CIPT without outside influence means you can only use it once every other turn)
- Doesn't tap for mana by itself
- Can lead to clunky opening hands
- Often times you just wish you had the mana rather than TG
Basically, it's boiled down to occasionally it'll get a good workout, and other times it just slows me down because I have it early on, but it still takes three turns to actually get the mana I needed from it. So it's not out for good, just being benched for a few games.
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UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Very true, and each land removed means a slightly less percentage of times when Druidic Satchel will hit one.
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Well, I fiddled around with the lands again (going back up to 39), and made some more changes:
Out: Homeward Path, Necromancy
In: Relequary Tower, Crucible of Worlds
Thoughts: Removed some situational cards that really don’t do anything most of the time for a couple of oldies that I want to give a second chance.
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As for Necromancy for Crucible, I feel like you could have done better. Necromancy is really powerful simply because it's responsive, but if you feel your control kit is good enough it makes sense.
How's Sphinx of the Steel Wind normally fare for you? I don't have one, and use Magister Sphinx instead, which aids my more aggressive strategy, but the CMC on Steel Wind seems high for what it does, but all of it's abilities work with one another, similar to how Sword of Vengeance does, which I like. Is it worth running over other beatsticks?
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
I don't really see the need for Magister Sphinx. I've already got other seven drops that will net me more value, and unless someone is going to cast Storm Herd, their life total isn't all that relevant since general damage is my primary win condition. Now, since you're playing with more aggressive creatures, you'll probably want to keep their life totals low.
Me personally, I like Steel Wind because there a whole ton of creatures that will swing into it profitably, so it's a defensive creature. But thanks toe the vigilance, I can still attack to pick my life total back up. The worst scenario I've encountered was when someone cloned it and attacked me. I agree that it's a little high on the cmc, but that's only because we're getting more spoiled in what we expect. After all, it IS a 6/6 with six abilities. Best of all, it's not legendary (hello, Rite of Replication!)
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All valid points, I gave my 8drop beater slot to Lorthos, The Tidemaker which is one of my favorite cards but is so hard to fit into a deck because of his mana intensity. This deck can reliably get him out turn 5-7 and because it's land ramp the following turn if he's still around seals the game up in a unique way. Lorthos taps what he pleases.
Vigilance really is a criminally underrated mechanic though.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Render Silent will be an interesting counterspell to test, but in my opinion it's got some pretty stiff competition since I'm not trying to run maximum density of counters.
Obzedat's Aid probably excites me the most, because it's another regrowth effect. More versatile than Unburial Rites, but lacking the flashback, so it may be an easy swap. We'll see.
Far // Away is interesting, but I think it's too situational to make it worth a slot.
So what do you think? Anything I missed?
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What about Notion Thief? I've put together a rough Dromar list based off of your Dakkon list, and I've been debating test this. It seems like a good source of draw in a meta that's Consecrated Sphinx-light.
Obzedat's Aid seems worth testing. I hope to get in some playtesting soon with Prometheus5429, who ironically is an old buddy of mine.
EDIT: Have you ever tried Baleful Strix? I kept one from the Planechase decks I opened last year but haven't found a deck for it yet. It seems like it's got a lot of things going for it: holds a sword well, comes down early, blocks Kaalia and trades with her durdles, and is a decent blink target for Venser. On top of that, Nils Hamm's artwork is pretty boss :p. Thoughts?
stuff
I haven't put too much thought into Notion Thief, although MTGO still sees it's fair share of the Sphinx, so it may be a liability. It certainly is a fair card to consider though.
Agreed. I got a couple of copies because it looked good for a few of my decks, and I'm at a loss as to what I should remove. I really should find a slot because of the fair amount of cards that it'll return.
I kept a copy too, because every time I think about building a Pauper deck I think about this guy. I haven't tried it in this deck, but I don't think it's got enough of an effect for this style of deck. I suppose it's worth a trade with Mulldrifter though. I'll lose one card if I bounce it with Venser, but will gain recursion with Academy Ruins and Sun Titan, and it'll make a better deterrent than Mulldrifter does. I don't know if I actually have any with me at this time, so it might have to wait until I get home in the Summer to actually make the switch.
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Trying out a shell of this build. It's gonna be a challenge to use it in a heavy MLD setting.
In my build, I'm adding more card draw such as Graveborn Muse, Phyrexian Arena and Bloodgift Demon.
I also added more counters to deal with the LD. Should be fun
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I salute your bravery. Those are all solid draw engines, and Necropotence is another to consider (which I'll make room for once I get another copy). Don't forget Faith's Reward, Sacred Ground, and Terra Eternal. You could also run Equinox, but I suspect you won't try to make Dakkon as large as possible.
If you could, I'd love to get some updates and reports in the thread, as well as your build. The info will be good to add to the primer.
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Fires Of Salvation
Must Read Post for any new player!
He's pretty good if you like the token production. I probably used him in an early build, and more recently I used Wurmcoil Engine in the slot. But it's a solid creature and agressive builds can make good use of it.
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Obzedat's Aid is proving to be useful, so I'm going to try to work a place in for it, as well as Grave Titan. I also got a Sword of Light and Shadow online, which I've found a home for in another deck. I'm liking it, so I may look into my sword package (although with a low creature count it's certainly a fine line).
I also want to catalog other people's Dakkon decks. If I don't have yours listed in the original post, let me know and I'll add a link to it.
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I will be bothering you a lot cryogen once i start to define a list
(great primer by the way)
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