This deck is not designed for dueling and unlike typical re-animator you're not trying to get your fattie into play as quickly as possible. This deck is capable of an early Jin-Gitaxis but that often results in you getting hated off the table if it happens to get removed. Therefore the strategy is slightly more subtle where you gradually build up your graveyard with a toolbox worth of threats and either play them after your opponents have less cards to respond with, or simply position yourself for a massive combination turn.
Early Game: Build up your graveyard and mana base with filter cards, remove early threats and collect counterspells
Mid Game: Start playing threats with protection, either with your Greaves or backed up with Counterspells. Establish board position and card advantage with the likes of Sheoldred or Jin-Gitaxis.
Late Game: Either Combo out with an X spell or establish a variety of threats on the table and win out with multiple Time Warp recursions.
Sedris is for the most part an afterthought in this deck. Although his ability is certainly useful it's not optimal to unearth your threats early in the game. However, late game a unearthed Nicol Bolas can be devastating prior to a finishing blow, so his ability can still be relevant and it is indeed the reason we are using him as opposed to another Grixis colored general. Usually he remains in the general zone until very late in the game, if he gets played at all.
There are plenty of Tool-Box targets for your reanimation spells. Arcanis generates gobs of card advantage, Crater Hellion can destroy swarm strategies, and the Primordials can punish opponents who let down their guard. Your primary targets are going to be Sheoldred followed by a Jin-Gitaxis however. If these resolve and they can be protected, it's usually game over.
Combos:
Aside from just wearing down your opponent's with the aforementioned attrition strategy (Sheoldred with Jin-Gitaxis) the deck is also capable of finding infinite mana combinations and winning out immediately with Exsanguinate or Comet Storm.
1) Worldgorger Dragon + (Animate Dead, Dance of the Dead, Necromancy) + X Spell. This combo is nothing new, if you can find it early it results in an early win easily if your X spell is not countered. If your playgroup frowns on this sort of play the Worldgorger can be easily replaced in the deck with another fattie. The enablers are still relevant to the deck even without him.
2) Corpse Dance + Palinchron + Sac Outlet + X Spell. Slightly more complicated, this is another way to generate infinite mana and finish off the table with massive damage.
Protecting Yourself:
This deck paints a giant target on it's back as you gradually filter threats into your graveyard. A Bojuka Bog or Tormod's Crypt can ruin your plans, so these threats must be taken seriously. Stifle and Trickbind are both in the deck specifically to deal with these cards, although they do have additional handy uses.
The deck also has several counterspells, which are vital to last until your next upkeep. It's usually difficult to win without them. When you get Sheoldred into play with several re-animation targets over the next few turns, make sure you make a point to protect him from exile or tuck effects until he's done with his grave-robbing.
Short List
This is a list of cards that have either been in the deck at some point or that I'm considering adding:
I really like this deck. Any deck that can abuse the graveyard is fine by me. How much of a target do you end up being? This seems like an all in type strategy. You either win gloriously or fizzle out.
It is an all-in type of strategy in that you are filling up your graveyard right before you strike and if your opponent's use a Bog on you you're probably done. Although you do have some redundancy to work with if your primary combos are exiled, you can still fall back on Mindleech Mass or Wrexial. Those are fine ways to win.
I generally setup slowly and don't start mass filtering until I get a Stifle or Trickbind in hand but then I can do it quickly with cheap filter effects to dump my threats and then re-animate them immediately.
This deck has a very lean curve which is why we can get away with only 34 lands. You also have a number of tutors to pick up whatever answer or combo piece you need. Unless your opponents just hate you the second you show them your general you are usually going to be able to setup reasonably well before hitting an explosive series of turns.
In: Diluvian Primordial. I wanted another big utility creature and this fits that role nicely in this deck.
In: Beacon of Unrest. Felt a tad short of reanimation after all my initial cuts. This is expensive to cast but the best fit because it's also versatile. I thought it was the best of the remaining choices.
Your list plays a lot less agressive than mine. I've been cutting down on critters for consistency in mine recently, but it's still incredibly agressive. I'd rather keep heat on the field and force people to scramble for answers. My yard is my toolbox still, and the utility still is there though maybe not always immediately when I need it. Density is important in this type of thing.
Your list plays a lot less agressive than mine. I've been cutting down on critters for consistency in mine recently, but it's still incredibly agressive. I'd rather keep heat on the field and force people to scramble for answers. My yard is my toolbox still, and the utility still is there though maybe not always immediately when I need it. Density is important in this type of thing.
Yeah it's intentionally control oriented because of how my meta works. If I don't protect myself I end up getting hated out early or getting my GY demolished by multiple crypt and bog effects. I'm always playing in a pod of four so while it's easy to destroy one player and maybe sometimes 2 if I go too aggressive the 4th guy always gets me. I have to hold counters or something horrible usually happens to my board state.
You must have a LOT of grave hate in your meta to have to play control-imator. Here's what enemy decks in my group normally pack
Zur: RIP, maybe a Bojuka Bog
Karn: Relic of Projenitus is about it
Garza Zol (Grixis control): Bog, Leyline of the void)
Animar: Concievibly none, I haven't seen any. I think he has a Time Reversal but thats about it.
no one here packs tons of grave hate, which is why two of my 3 decks are INCREDIBLY grave heavy. If not for me I doubt they'd pack at all.
Every deck in my meta is running 2-3 grave-hate cards. Jhoira has time shuffle effects. The Green decks have Scavenging Ooze and Loaming Shaman. Tormod's crypt is in any deck without those colors and sometimes Relics show up too. All the black decks have Bog at minimum and usually Withered Wretch and/or Nezumi along with it.
Ouch that's rough. I probably wouldn't even bother doing reanimator at that point lol. When m13 hit literally everyone went grave hate happy and every deck had a tormods crypt. Every black deck I see normally packs at least a bog and Nihil spellbound, but normally each of my opponents have one go to answer card and fish It out with a tutor. Still, my deck has been evolving hard and fast to find its balance for consistency. It seems it's almost impossible to lay grixis without some degree of control.
I am trying to make Grixis Re-animator EDH as well. I am having issues on how to go at it without throwing too much land destruction, propaganda effects, utility creatures and tons of removal!
I have some questions for you!
How do you deal with Heavy counter blue-based control decks?
How do you deal with early Grafdigger's Cage with possible recursion outlets for it.
How do you deal with aggressive decks (Aggro-Stax, Aggro, Stax-LD, or any Jor Kadeen or Gisela list)?
Why do you run so many big creatures without more Looter-effects in here? Having 4/5 Looter effects smooths out your bad hands and draws. Trust me, I know this from playing a Competitive Sharuum Re-Animator list for a long time.
Why are there so little reanimation spells? (Please don't list your general as possible reanimation outlet. It won't always be in play!)
Do you plan on just hard casting all your targets when if you face too much hate?
I'm not nash, and he may have different answers, but here's my opinion on things.
I'd avoid propaganda effects for reanimator. Getting big fatties out will make you a target, and in my experience propaganda only makes people want to attack you further because they cant, or it's harder to. No Mercy is the only prop-like card i'd consider to deter attacks Utility creatures are great! Especially in a list like Nash's. Just don't overstock on them or you're not going to be able to call it reanimator XD.
Remember, a lot of creatures double as removal. Sheoldred, Crater Helion, and others also act as removal!
If blue is a problem, add Bosiju, Who Shelter's All to the deck. It's a big middle finger. Otherwise, maybe things like Shimean Specter or Duress and pluck them out of a blue players hand.
Specifically, Grafdigger's cage is your least worry over LotV, RIP, and Crypts/Spellbombs. The cage is an artifact, which is Reds specialty to remove. Enchantments are the hard things to remove, and crypts/spellbombs can stay reactive and do it in response to removal, and if you try and remove it after it's tapped, it's ability is already on the stack and it wont matter. This is why his list is so less aggressive than mine, because he can't rely on his graveyard as much because of the amount of yard hate in his meta.
As for aggressive decks, he's got a pretty solid control kit. I think it wouldn't be much of an issue. I've never played against a stax deck so I can't say much on that.
I personally agree with more looting and a larger # of creatures, but it's a meta thing. He can't rely on his yard as much as my deck can. Same goes for # of reanimation spells, if there is no target after getting bog'd, it's a dead draw unless it hits all graves. This is probably why his fat list is so much lower is because he may have to hard cast them. I'm not certain.
I agree that Sedris will not always be there though. In my deck, he's strictly a finisher, but on a hand where I can't do much or just want to set up for the next turn, I'll cast him. If he dies, he'll go to the grave, not the command zone, which is far easier to fish him out of and cheaper as well. Sedris can pull off a lot of shenanagins on his own.
I am trying to make Grixis Re-animator EDH as well. I am having issues on how to go at it without throwing too much land destruction, propaganda effects, utility creatures and tons of removal!
I have some questions for you!
I like Monkmiroku's answers but I'll add here where I can.
How do you deal with Heavy counter blue-based control decks?
Generally card advantage to just overwhelm them as I can usually recur multiple threats in a turn. I also have my own counter-magic that I can use if I get into a counter war. If your meta has a lot of draw-go you can always add additional counterspells to force stuff into play. There is room here to add Pact of Negation, Mana Drain and even vanilla Counterspell or Pyroblast if necessary, I'd probably cut a few of the redundant re-animator targets if I felt I need to to include more permission.
How do you deal with early Grafdigger's Cage with possible recursion outlets for it.
Patience. Simply build up my yard and wait for the appropriate time to remove it before going off.
How do you deal with aggressive decks (Aggro-Stax, Aggro, Stax-LD, or any Jor Kadeen or Gisela list)?
Removal, Removal, Removal. Aggro isn't too much of an issue as I can get removal sweepers into play pretty quickly if necessary. Cyclonic Rift is a house against soft lock decks.
Why do you run so many big creatures without more Looter-effects in here? Having 4/5 Looter effects smooths out your bad hands and draws. Trust me, I know this from playing a Competitive Sharuum Re-Animator list for a long time.
I honestly feel like I have enough looting in this deck. There is a lot of it although it's not totally obvious in some cases. If you look at the function list you'll see 10 looter effects in the deck. That's 10% of the deck devoted to it. I find the spells are much more effective and efficient than utility creatures that do the same thing. I had Magus and Merfolk Looter in here in the past and I found I really didn't need them. If I'm desperate I can always tutor for a faithless looting or desolate lighthouse and that usually does what I need.
Why are there so little reanimation spells? (Please don't list your general as possible reanimation outlet. It won't always be in play!)
Do you plan on just hard casting all your targets when if you face too much hate?
I'm only running the most efficient spells possible and for me it came down to tuning it. Originally I had a lot more and ran into too many situations where I had reanimation effects and nothing to use it on. I have 8 reanimate cards, one of which is a beacon and can be re-used, plus Sheoldred, plus 6 tutors (Demonic Tutor, Vampiric, Mystical, Demonic Collusion, Rune-Scarred and Shred Memory) and 3 ways of recurring the reanimate cards if I need more (Snapcaster Mage, Recall, Yawgmoth's Will).
Considering I can tutor or recur almost anything I need at any given time I think I have the right number now.
I occasionally hard cast stuff if the game goes long as I'll usually have enough mana but it's not usually necessary.
I played a fun game yesterday with this deck where I took over the game pretty quickly. I got a lot of early ramp and watched a wrexial get tucked away but then forced Jin-Gitaxias into play followed by Sepulchral Primoridal and Time Warp, stole a Hellkite Tyrant, used that to take a bunch of equipment (Sword of Whatevers) and then recalled the time warp cast it again and drew into a Yawgmoth's Will which allowed for another Time Warp along with a variety of other nonsense (Nicol Bolas followed by Diluvian Primordial etc...).
After reading the above post your deck really reminds me of my friend's old thrax deck . it was a control-via sacrifice (kinda like one-sided stax?) deck that ran just enough recursion and a ton of tutors. It's efficient, I must admit. My deck is slowly shifting to a median between your and my deck. I still want to be aggressive. Most decks in my group are fast and I can't have enough permission cards on my own without severely cutting looting recursion and fat packages, so putting pressure on them is the next best thing. Forcing an answer out of someone slows them down a lot.
After reading the above post your deck really reminds me of my friend's old thrax deck . it was a control-via sacrifice (kinda like one-sided stax?) deck that ran just enough recursion and a ton of tutors. It's efficient, I must admit. My deck is slowly shifting to a median between your and my deck. I still want to be aggressive. Most decks in my group are fast and I can't have enough permission cards on my own without severely cutting looting recursion and fat packages, so putting pressure on them is the next best thing. Forcing an answer out of someone slows them down a lot.
While I don't detest the idea of control reanimator, I do firmly believe that the reanimation targets you do choose must end the game promptly (ie. Kevin Nash runs plenty of combo). The way you and I have built our decks are not to play the controlling role; we are aggressors and every card in the deck should reflect that. If you want to add answers, you're only diluting your own strategy and lowering the potential of the deck. If you look at my list - after playing the deck so many times, I've realized that I didn't care to have the answer most of the time, or even better, my threats were the answers. It started happening when I would throw away my Cyclonic Rifts and Chaos Warps cause the only things I cared about were reanimation and lands. Of course the metagame is always a huge determining factor, but that shouldn't affect the decision to go either hyper-aggressive or control/combo. Standing somewhere in the middle just seems extremely sub-optimal.
The only non-creature answer I run now is Chaos Warp because it hits everything. I used to run Obilvion Stone and All is Dust, but both of those were cut pretty early on.
I still have a fair amount of threats, but another thing is my density of recursion is higher so the same few threats will almost never stay gone long. Gy hate is normally 1-of in decks and is tutored for, so I always have time to do a lot of damage before losing my graveyard. Most of my threats are stringer the later the game progresses also, which is excellent.
Bazaar of Baghdad, Sundial of the Infinite (Combos with more then just your general ex. Worldgorger leaving play, instant speed removal, counters), Deadeye Navigator (Palinchron inf mana, etb effects, removal protection), Gilded Drake (gives control + renanimation is nice)
I have been looking over your list alot lately and was curious for your exclusion of hell's caretaker balthor, the defiled and urabrask.
I've been trying out his list with a few revisions of my own and it seems like those cards are a bit too slow for what he's aiming at. If you want put Living Death or All Hallow's Eve in replacement for one of those cards.
I have been looking over your list alot lately and was curious for your exclusion of hell's caretaker balthor, the defiled and urabrask.
Hell's Caretaker: This isn't a bad card but I'd probably be more inclined to run him in a deck with tokens to sacrifice. I already have plenty of cheaper recursion options so I don't feel he's necessary.
Balthor the Defiled: I'd run him in Rakdos but he misses my blue creatures so I think there are better options. Also he's a global effect and because me creature count is low it might benefit some opponent's over me.
Urabrask the Hidden: A good card that could slot nicely into this deck. I think it's inferior to Anger in this list though. Right now Anger is enough haste because I have so many ways to tutor it up. If I felt I needed Redundancy Urabrask would get the call.
Bazaar of Baghdad, Sundial of the Infinite (Combos with more then just your general ex. Worldgorger leaving play, instant speed removal, counters), Deadeye Navigator (Palinchron inf mana, etb effects, removal protection), Gilded Drake (gives control + renanimation is nice)
I'm not running Bazaar because I don't own one. If I did own one it would absolutely be in the list.
Sundial is an interesting choice. I like the synergy with my general. I'll have to consider if this combo piece is worth the slot.
Deadeye is something to consider. When I built the list initially there weren't any primordials in it so the CIP effects were limited, but now that they've been added I might give it a shot.
Gilded drake is good but I'm unsure where it slots in here. It doesn't synergize with anything else in the deck. It's just a nice blue staple.
I took out the instant win combo options in favor of a more conventional win condition approach primarily because I was tired of winning that way. Worldgorger and Palinchron were both "I win" cards so I removed them. If you really want a "competitive" deck I'd keep them in. Rune-Scarred lags unless you're using it to build the combo pieces so I pulled that. Molten Primordial just wasn't very exciting in this deck.
Added some removal, additional draw/filter options, another counterspell and another conventional win condition with the Leviathan.
Without the combo pieces it's certainly harder to "just win" with this deck, but it plays more control oriented looking for attrition victories with card advantage and board control. Recurring Time Warp is usually the path to victory.
Decklist:
Sorted by Card Type:
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Nivix Guildmage
1 Anger
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Wrexial, the Risen Deep
1 Arcanis, the Omnipotent
1 Crater Hellion
1 Sepulchral Primordial
1 Diluvian Primordial
1 Sheoldred, the Whispering One
1 Phyrexian Ingester
1 Nicol Bolas
1 Bloodfire Colossus
1 Mindleech Mass
1 Stormtide Leviathan
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 Sol Ring
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Dimir Signet
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Coalition Relic
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Pongify
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Entomb
1 Stifle
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Trickbind
1 Shred Memory
1 Izzet Charm
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Forbid
1 Hinder
1 Spell Crumple
1 Double Negative
1 Frantic Search
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Intuition
1 Chaos Warp
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Steam Augury
1 Faithless Looting
1 Careful Study
1 Stitch Together
1 Dreadbore
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Exhume
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Buried Alive
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Damnation
1 Deep Analysis
1 Demonic Collusion
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Time Warp
1 Recall
1 Animate Dead
1 Dance of the Dead
1 Necromancy
1 High Market
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Strip Mine
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Tolaria West
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
3 Island
1 Command Tower
1 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Blood Crypt
1 Watery Grave
1 Steam Vents
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Rakdos Carnarium
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Graven Cairns
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Barren Moor
Sorted by Function:
1 Animate Dead
1 Dance of the Dead
1 Exhume
1 Stitch Together
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Necromancy
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Sedris the Traitor King
1 Sheoldred, the Whispering One
1 Recall
1 Tolaria West
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Entomb
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Shred Memory
1 Buried Alive
1 Demonic Collusion
1 Sol Ring
1 Dimir Signet
1 Coalition Relic
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Stifle
1 Trickbind
1 Hinder
1 Spell Crumple
1 Forbid
1 Double Negative
1 Barren Moor
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Careful Study
1 Faithless Looting
1 Izzet Charm
1 Nivix Guildmage
1 Frantic Search
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Intuition
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Deep Analysis
1 Steam Augury
1 Arcanis the Omnipotent
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Strip Mine
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Pongify
1 Dreadbore
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Chaos Warp
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Damnation
1 Crater Hellion
1 Bloodfire Colossus
1 Phyrexian Ingester
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 High Market
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Anger
1 Time Warp
1 Sepulchral Primordial
1 Diluvian Primordial
1 Nicol Bolas
1 Mindleech Mass
1 Stormtide Leviathan
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
3 Island
1 Command Tower
1 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Blood Crypt
1 Watery Grave
1 Steam Vents
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Rakdos Carnarium
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Graven Cairns
1 Crumbling Necropolis
Strategy:
This deck is not designed for dueling and unlike typical re-animator you're not trying to get your fattie into play as quickly as possible. This deck is capable of an early Jin-Gitaxis but that often results in you getting hated off the table if it happens to get removed. Therefore the strategy is slightly more subtle where you gradually build up your graveyard with a toolbox worth of threats and either play them after your opponents have less cards to respond with, or simply position yourself for a massive combination turn.
Early Game: Build up your graveyard and mana base with filter cards, remove early threats and collect counterspells
Mid Game: Start playing threats with protection, either with your Greaves or backed up with Counterspells. Establish board position and card advantage with the likes of Sheoldred or Jin-Gitaxis.
Late Game:
Either Combo out with an X spell orestablish a variety of threats on the table and win out with multiple Time Warp recursions.Sedris is for the most part an afterthought in this deck. Although his ability is certainly useful it's not optimal to unearth your threats early in the game. However, late game a unearthed Nicol Bolas can be devastating prior to a finishing blow, so his ability can still be relevant and it is indeed the reason we are using him as opposed to another Grixis colored general. Usually he remains in the general zone until very late in the game, if he gets played at all.
There are plenty of Tool-Box targets for your reanimation spells. Arcanis generates gobs of card advantage, Crater Hellion can destroy swarm strategies, and the Primordials can punish opponents who let down their guard. Your primary targets are going to be Sheoldred followed by a Jin-Gitaxis however. If these resolve and they can be protected, it's usually game over.
Combos:
Aside from just wearing down your opponent's with the aforementioned attrition strategy (Sheoldred with Jin-Gitaxis) the deck is also capable of finding infinite mana combinations and winning out immediately with Exsanguinate or Comet Storm.
1) Worldgorger Dragon + (Animate Dead, Dance of the Dead, Necromancy) + X Spell. This combo is nothing new, if you can find it early it results in an early win easily if your X spell is not countered. If your playgroup frowns on this sort of play the Worldgorger can be easily replaced in the deck with another fattie. The enablers are still relevant to the deck even without him.
2) Corpse Dance + Palinchron + Sac Outlet + X Spell. Slightly more complicated, this is another way to generate infinite mana and finish off the table with massive damage.
Protecting Yourself:
This deck paints a giant target on it's back as you gradually filter threats into your graveyard. A Bojuka Bog or Tormod's Crypt can ruin your plans, so these threats must be taken seriously. Stifle and Trickbind are both in the deck specifically to deal with these cards, although they do have additional handy uses.
The deck also has several counterspells, which are vital to last until your next upkeep. It's usually difficult to win without them. When you get Sheoldred into play with several re-animation targets over the next few turns, make sure you make a point to protect him from exile or tuck effects until he's done with his grave-robbing.
Short List
This is a list of cards that have either been in the deck at some point or that I'm considering adding:
1 Fire/Ice
1 Zombify
1 Dread Return
1 Exsanguinate
1 Concentrate
1 Deep Analysis
1 Pact of Negation
1 Crosis's Charm
1 Magus of the Bazaar
1 Merfolk Looter
1 Avatar of Woe
1 Silent-Blade Oni
1 Worldgorger Dragon
1 Molten Primordial
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Bazaar of Baghdad
Rafiq of the Many UWG
Sedris, the Traitor King URB
Kaalia of the Vast RWB
Savra, Queen of Golgari GB
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice GW
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails EquipmentW
It is an all-in type of strategy in that you are filling up your graveyard right before you strike and if your opponent's use a Bog on you you're probably done. Although you do have some redundancy to work with if your primary combos are exiled, you can still fall back on Mindleech Mass or Wrexial. Those are fine ways to win.
I generally setup slowly and don't start mass filtering until I get a Stifle or Trickbind in hand but then I can do it quickly with cheap filter effects to dump my threats and then re-animate them immediately.
This deck has a very lean curve which is why we can get away with only 34 lands. You also have a number of tutors to pick up whatever answer or combo piece you need. Unless your opponents just hate you the second you show them your general you are usually going to be able to setup reasonably well before hitting an explosive series of turns.
Always swing Nicol Bolas at the guy with Islands.
Rafiq of the Many UWG
Sedris, the Traitor King URB
Kaalia of the Vast RWB
Savra, Queen of Golgari GB
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice GW
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails EquipmentW
Out: Exsanguinate. I like the card but Comet Storm fulfills the same role and is more versatile.
Out: Fire/Ice. This was mostly filler to begin with.
Out: Chain Reaction. I needed a sweeper but I'm swapping this out for Bloodfire Colossus.
In: Diluvian Primordial. I wanted another big utility creature and this fits that role nicely in this deck.
In: Beacon of Unrest. Felt a tad short of reanimation after all my initial cuts. This is expensive to cast but the best fit because it's also versatile. I thought it was the best of the remaining choices.
In: Bloodfire Colossus. A better fit for this deck than Chain Reaction.
Rafiq of the Many UWG
Sedris, the Traitor King URB
Kaalia of the Vast RWB
Savra, Queen of Golgari GB
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice GW
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails EquipmentW
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Yeah it's intentionally control oriented because of how my meta works. If I don't protect myself I end up getting hated out early or getting my GY demolished by multiple crypt and bog effects. I'm always playing in a pod of four so while it's easy to destroy one player and maybe sometimes 2 if I go too aggressive the 4th guy always gets me. I have to hold counters or something horrible usually happens to my board state.
Rafiq of the Many UWG
Sedris, the Traitor King URB
Kaalia of the Vast RWB
Savra, Queen of Golgari GB
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice GW
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails EquipmentW
Zur: RIP, maybe a Bojuka Bog
Karn: Relic of Projenitus is about it
Garza Zol (Grixis control): Bog, Leyline of the void)
Animar: Concievibly none, I haven't seen any. I think he has a Time Reversal but thats about it.
no one here packs tons of grave hate, which is why two of my 3 decks are INCREDIBLY grave heavy. If not for me I doubt they'd pack at all.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Rafiq of the Many UWG
Sedris, the Traitor King URB
Kaalia of the Vast RWB
Savra, Queen of Golgari GB
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice GW
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails EquipmentW
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
I have some questions for you!
How do you deal with Heavy counter blue-based control decks?
How do you deal with early Grafdigger's Cage with possible recursion outlets for it.
How do you deal with aggressive decks (Aggro-Stax, Aggro, Stax-LD, or any Jor Kadeen or Gisela list)?
Why do you run so many big creatures without more Looter-effects in here? Having 4/5 Looter effects smooths out your bad hands and draws. Trust me, I know this from playing a Competitive Sharuum Re-Animator list for a long time.
Why are there so little reanimation spells? (Please don't list your general as possible reanimation outlet. It won't always be in play!)
Do you plan on just hard casting all your targets when if you face too much hate?
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
I'd avoid propaganda effects for reanimator. Getting big fatties out will make you a target, and in my experience propaganda only makes people want to attack you further because they cant, or it's harder to. No Mercy is the only prop-like card i'd consider to deter attacks Utility creatures are great! Especially in a list like Nash's. Just don't overstock on them or you're not going to be able to call it reanimator XD.
Remember, a lot of creatures double as removal. Sheoldred, Crater Helion, and others also act as removal!
If blue is a problem, add Bosiju, Who Shelter's All to the deck. It's a big middle finger. Otherwise, maybe things like Shimean Specter or Duress and pluck them out of a blue players hand.
Specifically, Grafdigger's cage is your least worry over LotV, RIP, and Crypts/Spellbombs. The cage is an artifact, which is Reds specialty to remove. Enchantments are the hard things to remove, and crypts/spellbombs can stay reactive and do it in response to removal, and if you try and remove it after it's tapped, it's ability is already on the stack and it wont matter. This is why his list is so less aggressive than mine, because he can't rely on his graveyard as much because of the amount of yard hate in his meta.
As for aggressive decks, he's got a pretty solid control kit. I think it wouldn't be much of an issue. I've never played against a stax deck so I can't say much on that.
I personally agree with more looting and a larger # of creatures, but it's a meta thing. He can't rely on his yard as much as my deck can. Same goes for # of reanimation spells, if there is no target after getting bog'd, it's a dead draw unless it hits all graves. This is probably why his fat list is so much lower is because he may have to hard cast them. I'm not certain.
I agree that Sedris will not always be there though. In my deck, he's strictly a finisher, but on a hand where I can't do much or just want to set up for the next turn, I'll cast him. If he dies, he'll go to the grave, not the command zone, which is far easier to fish him out of and cheaper as well. Sedris can pull off a lot of shenanagins on his own.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
I like Monkmiroku's answers but I'll add here where I can.
Generally card advantage to just overwhelm them as I can usually recur multiple threats in a turn. I also have my own counter-magic that I can use if I get into a counter war. If your meta has a lot of draw-go you can always add additional counterspells to force stuff into play. There is room here to add Pact of Negation, Mana Drain and even vanilla Counterspell or Pyroblast if necessary, I'd probably cut a few of the redundant re-animator targets if I felt I need to to include more permission.
Patience. Simply build up my yard and wait for the appropriate time to remove it before going off.
Removal, Removal, Removal. Aggro isn't too much of an issue as I can get removal sweepers into play pretty quickly if necessary. Cyclonic Rift is a house against soft lock decks.
I honestly feel like I have enough looting in this deck. There is a lot of it although it's not totally obvious in some cases. If you look at the function list you'll see 10 looter effects in the deck. That's 10% of the deck devoted to it. I find the spells are much more effective and efficient than utility creatures that do the same thing. I had Magus and Merfolk Looter in here in the past and I found I really didn't need them. If I'm desperate I can always tutor for a faithless looting or desolate lighthouse and that usually does what I need.
I'm only running the most efficient spells possible and for me it came down to tuning it. Originally I had a lot more and ran into too many situations where I had reanimation effects and nothing to use it on. I have 8 reanimate cards, one of which is a beacon and can be re-used, plus Sheoldred, plus 6 tutors (Demonic Tutor, Vampiric, Mystical, Demonic Collusion, Rune-Scarred and Shred Memory) and 3 ways of recurring the reanimate cards if I need more (Snapcaster Mage, Recall, Yawgmoth's Will).
Considering I can tutor or recur almost anything I need at any given time I think I have the right number now.
I occasionally hard cast stuff if the game goes long as I'll usually have enough mana but it's not usually necessary.
I played a fun game yesterday with this deck where I took over the game pretty quickly. I got a lot of early ramp and watched a wrexial get tucked away but then forced Jin-Gitaxias into play followed by Sepulchral Primoridal and Time Warp, stole a Hellkite Tyrant, used that to take a bunch of equipment (Sword of Whatevers) and then recalled the time warp cast it again and drew into a Yawgmoth's Will which allowed for another Time Warp along with a variety of other nonsense (Nicol Bolas followed by Diluvian Primordial etc...).
Rafiq of the Many UWG
Sedris, the Traitor King URB
Kaalia of the Vast RWB
Savra, Queen of Golgari GB
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice GW
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails EquipmentW
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
While I don't detest the idea of control reanimator, I do firmly believe that the reanimation targets you do choose must end the game promptly (ie. Kevin Nash runs plenty of combo). The way you and I have built our decks are not to play the controlling role; we are aggressors and every card in the deck should reflect that. If you want to add answers, you're only diluting your own strategy and lowering the potential of the deck. If you look at my list - after playing the deck so many times, I've realized that I didn't care to have the answer most of the time, or even better, my threats were the answers. It started happening when I would throw away my Cyclonic Rifts and Chaos Warps cause the only things I cared about were reanimation and lands. Of course the metagame is always a huge determining factor, but that shouldn't affect the decision to go either hyper-aggressive or control/combo. Standing somewhere in the middle just seems extremely sub-optimal.
The only non-creature answer I run now is Chaos Warp because it hits everything. I used to run Obilvion Stone and All is Dust, but both of those were cut pretty early on.
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Why aren't you running:
Bazaar of Baghdad, Sundial of the Infinite (Combos with more then just your general ex. Worldgorger leaving play, instant speed removal, counters), Deadeye Navigator (Palinchron inf mana, etb effects, removal protection), Gilded Drake (gives control + renanimation is nice)
I've been trying out his list with a few revisions of my own and it seems like those cards are a bit too slow for what he's aiming at. If you want put Living Death or All Hallow's Eve in replacement for one of those cards.
Also, what about Master of Cruelties?
Hell's Caretaker: This isn't a bad card but I'd probably be more inclined to run him in a deck with tokens to sacrifice. I already have plenty of cheaper recursion options so I don't feel he's necessary.
Balthor the Defiled: I'd run him in Rakdos but he misses my blue creatures so I think there are better options. Also he's a global effect and because me creature count is low it might benefit some opponent's over me.
Urabrask the Hidden: A good card that could slot nicely into this deck. I think it's inferior to Anger in this list though. Right now Anger is enough haste because I have so many ways to tutor it up. If I felt I needed Redundancy Urabrask would get the call.
Rafiq of the Many UWG
Sedris, the Traitor King URB
Kaalia of the Vast RWB
Savra, Queen of Golgari GB
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice GW
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails EquipmentW
I'm not running Bazaar because I don't own one. If I did own one it would absolutely be in the list.
Sundial is an interesting choice. I like the synergy with my general. I'll have to consider if this combo piece is worth the slot.
Deadeye is something to consider. When I built the list initially there weren't any primordials in it so the CIP effects were limited, but now that they've been added I might give it a shot.
Gilded drake is good but I'm unsure where it slots in here. It doesn't synergize with anything else in the deck. It's just a nice blue staple.
Rafiq of the Many UWG
Sedris, the Traitor King URB
Kaalia of the Vast RWB
Savra, Queen of Golgari GB
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice GW
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails EquipmentW
Removed:
I took out the instant win combo options in favor of a more conventional win condition approach primarily because I was tired of winning that way. Worldgorger and Palinchron were both "I win" cards so I removed them. If you really want a "competitive" deck I'd keep them in. Rune-Scarred lags unless you're using it to build the combo pieces so I pulled that. Molten Primordial just wasn't very exciting in this deck.
Removed:
The Charm was removed in favor of cheaper removal (pongify). The other two cards are combo enablers/finishers so I pulled those as well.
Here is what I added:
Added some removal, additional draw/filter options, another counterspell and another conventional win condition with the Leviathan.
Without the combo pieces it's certainly harder to "just win" with this deck, but it plays more control oriented looking for attrition victories with card advantage and board control. Recurring Time Warp is usually the path to victory.
Rafiq of the Many UWG
Sedris, the Traitor King URB
Kaalia of the Vast RWB
Savra, Queen of Golgari GB
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice GW
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails EquipmentW