Seedborne muse was already a card I was thinking of playing, and while this new one doesn't untap artifacts/enchantments (so mostly mana rocks for this current deck), getting flash on creatures is a nice bonus.
While my Maelstrom Wanderer is definitely based around combos, you may still find interest in the list: mostly just cards i didn't see listed here that work well. I would post them, but giving you my list seems more helpful. Just click it in the signature.
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RUGMaelstrom WanderRUG < That's a link
Please look at and comment on the above! Looking for any advice and thoughts!
I'm not sure what I could pull from your list that isn't geared towards comboing out other than the mass mana producers (mana flare, etc.) and time warp effects. Mana producers could work, but time warp effects interfere with primal surge.
Doubling season + planeswalkers are always fun, but the more noncreatures I run, the less fodder I can pitch to food chain.
Would this deck have to be drastically altered if I wanted to try it without Primal Surge? It just feels a little too "oops I win" for my tastes. It's also really risky if a board wipe comes along next turn. I'm not sure my play group would be cool with Boundless Realms either (although I think I'd play it anyhow).
Would this deck have to be drastically altered if I wanted to try it without Primal Surge? It just feels a little too "oops I win" for my tastes. It's also really risky if a board wipe comes along next turn. I'm not sure my play group would be cool with Boundless Realms either (although I think I'd play it anyhow).
MISC. ALTERNATIVES
Cards that I have considered originally and/or played around with, but ultimately cut them or haven't tried for whatever reason. It doesn't make these cards bad though, but I am playing the deck with certain subthemes and some of these cards don't fit them.
general Instants/Sorceries - You'll first notice that Primal Surge greatly restricts deckbuilding. If you do not want to run Primal Surge, you can remove some of the more unimpressive cards and replace them with instants/sorceries. For example, you won't have to run mediocre cards like Dawntreader Elk or Greenweaver Druid if you could instead run cards like Cultivate or Skyshroud Claim. You'll also get access to very powerful nonpermanents like Time Warp, Knowledge Exploitation and the like.
POWER LEVEL
Cards that I do not run because of money, power level, and so on.
Mass Land Destruction - Jokulhaups, Wildfire, Destructive Force, etc. are all strong, albeit cutthroat, cards to cascade into, and some of them even sweep creatures somewhat. These are very powerful to cascade into, as you can clear the board before Wanderer hits the field because the cascaded spells resolve before Wanderer. If your playgroup is ok with huge land D, these types of cards should go straight in the deck. since they're nonpermanents, you probably won't be playing Primal Surge, so keep that in mind.
In other words, removing Primal Surge allows for different types of cards to go in, but the general strategy will be about the same; you play as a ramp deck and the idea is to play threats over answers. Although it's worth noting that playing with mass land D also allows you to play a more control-ish type deck, which RUG colors are still capable of doing (throw in counterspells that don't suck when cascaded into, such as Cryptic Command, and it can be fine in wanderer).
I also don't know why your playgroup wouldn't like boundless realms unless they just hate ramp cards.
I have a totally different approach. My M wanderer deck is a sliver deck.
wouldn't it be better to just have a sliver general?
Mine is considerably more filled with combos, but i have done turn 3 before (everyone else's turn two)... But you should probably increase the power level of some cards, and I would definitely suggest more en masse mana generators (mana flare and heartbeat of spring for example)
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RUGMaelstrom WanderRUG < That's a link
Please look at and comment on the above! Looking for any advice and thoughts!
Power level is always easy to tweak, but my playgroup isn't that cutthroat. Of course this deck can make simple and quick adjustments to card power level to fit your playgroup.
T1 Sol ring
T2 Garruk
T3 Oracle, Food Chain
T4 Wanderer cascades into animar
of course this was against a table of green decks that were tapping out for ramp, but it still was interesting that this deck could power out a quick kill, albeit it needs a pretty nutty draw.
On that note, I need to thank you. It was your list that got me thinking about food chain, and it has won me many a game recently, even in tournament.^_^
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RUGMaelstrom WanderRUG < That's a link
Please look at and comment on the above! Looking for any advice and thoughts!
All of my changelogs and my reasonings behind them are in post #2.
I decided to get the two missing filter lands to complement Cascade Bluffs. They're not cheap, but the mana fixing is required, and vivids are very bad tempo plays.
Ancient Tomb is basically a better Temple of the False God.
Rofellos is not nearly as bonkers as he is in a monogreen deck, but there should still be enough forests to tap for 2-3 mana on a 2-drop early on, which is more than enough.
In a similar vein, Karametra's Acolyte is being tested. It starts as an expensive Llanowar Elf/Greenweaver Druid, but once devotion is 4 or greater it's a decent card.
Skullclamp got cut. There are fewer than 10 creatures that I really like clamping away; things like clamping Birds of Paradise are only desperate measures and not something I want to do often. It's not as abusive as it can be in a token deck and doesn't play to its potential power level. Normally I'd rather have another ramp spell in place of skullclamp early in the game unless I also have the 1-toughness creatures I want to clamp away as well.
With skullclamp out, I can relatively safely cut Trinket Mage. It's either a 4 mana sol ring or 4 mana top and those plays are fine but not great.
Do you find the effect of Boundless Realms to be worth the risk of breaking a Primal Surge? I run Boundless as a place holder in my build for now, but while it is good, it is definitely an inevitable cut for me. Tooth and Nail is definitely good enough to risk breaking a Surge, but I would wonder about Boundless Realms.
Also, with your emphasis on creature-based ramping, I would highly recommend the full suite of Nantuko Elder, Fyndhorn Elder, Greenweaver Druid, Palladium Myr, and Overgrowth. The seem silly, but are incredibly efficient and getting turn four Wanderers. Another card in that vein that I don't see on your list is Worn Powerstone. All just food for thought, but they really help bring the average Wanderer turn a lot lower. Good stuff.
Anyway, cool list, man, hope it continues to work out well for you.
Yeah, Boundless Realms would actually be better used on something like Mana Reflection in a Primal Surge build. There are some merits to using Boundless realms (such as boundless realms being more resilient to removal outside of mass land D, and being hilarious with avenger of zendikar) though, but mana reflection is probably the better card.
However I'm also on the fence about Primal Surge too. It's a hilarious card but it's often a one-card "oops i win" spell, which can be pretty unfun for people on the receiving end. Even if I remove Primal Surge I'll be more inclined to run creatures that make mana because they can be exiled with Food Chain though.
As for the ramp, too much ramp makes your lategame weaker and your wanderer cascades weaker, making a tradeoff between explosiveness vs resiliency. The creature ramp cards (like Greenweaver Druid) ramp harder than the land ramp creatures (like wood elves) but again it's explosiveness vs resiliency (since creatures die more often than lands). With that said I do have to still decide on the course I want for this deck. I can't decide on whether to be a balls-to-the-walls deck or a midrange deck.
also after looking at other lists, carpet of flowers looks interesting. While it can potentially be a dead draw, if there are no blue players on the table this deck will probably win anyway.
also has anyone used tempt with discovery? It seems like one of the few tempting offer cards that may actually tempt players to use it.
also after looking at other lists, carpet of flowers looks interesting. While it can potentially be a dead draw, if there are no blue players on the table this deck will probably win anyway.
also has anyone used tempt with discovery? It seems like one of the few tempting offer cards that may actually tempt players to use it.
I really don't like Tempt, personally. It is a card that rewards us for playing against low quality opponents. Against good players, its best-case scenario is limited version of Reap and Sow, which is a card I don't see any of us playing. It is similar to Collective Voyage, which most people have recognized as a poor card. You might catch someone the first time they ever see it, but after that, people understand how to play against it.
I feel like it could be one of the tempting offer cards that people may use because land fetching is different from the other tempting offer effects. Like almost no one is going to fall for the red one and the black one.
But my guess is that the good players don't fall for it, or they fetch lands better than yours (like that black deck gets his cabal coffers), or they just fetch lands and then gang up on you. Eh.
It's not bad, but I feel like I should try to find other 2-mana ramp cards that can power out Wanderer faster. Caryatid only reduces wanderer's clock by 1 turn, unlike something like rofellos which can reduce it by more than 1.
I feel like it could be one of the tempting offer cards that people may use because land fetching is different from the other tempting offer effects. Like almost no one is going to fall for the red one and the black one.
But my guess is that the good players don't fall for it, or they fetch lands better than yours (like that black deck gets his cabal coffers), or they just fetch lands and then gang up on you. Eh.
Lmao, yeah, I am just worried that if anyone else actually goes and gets lands, they simply outclass what I am getting. We don't run Gaea's Cradle but the decks that do... oh boy.
I think this guy is good in standard, but for us, we get the same amount of ramp out of 1-drops, and the body and hexproof are bot irrelevant. At :1mana::symg:, we would rather probably play any number of fellows from Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary to Priest of Titania, which have more upside. Granted Rofellos is expensive. Also, in non-boundless surge builds, we also prefer Rampant Growth variants at :1mana::symg:. But Caryatid is a fine place holder if you are looking to build a Wanderer deck and don't have the optimal ramp cards yet.
+ Teferi, mage of Zhalfir
+ Tezzeret the Seeker
+ Veteran Explorer
+ Dawntreader Elk
+ Greenweaver Druid
+ Lotus Cobra
+ Joraga Treespeaker
- Steel Hellkite
- Fabricate
- Shardless Agent
- Bloodbraid Elf
- Edric, Spymaster of Trest
- Deadwood Treefolk
- Wonder
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/112/230/635201278425702672.jpg
Seedborne muse was already a card I was thinking of playing, and while this new one doesn't untap artifacts/enchantments (so mostly mana rocks for this current deck), getting flash on creatures is a nice bonus.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
+ Chromatic Lantern
+ Gilded Lotus
+ Thran Dynamo
+ Tooth and Nail
+ Mindclaw Shaman
+ Defense of the Heart
+ Forbidden Orchard
- Molten Primordial
- Veteran Explorer
- Acidic Slime
- Genesis
- Diluvian Primordial
- Greater Good
- Forest
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
Please look at and comment on the above! Looking for any advice and thoughts!
Doubling season + planeswalkers are always fun, but the more noncreatures I run, the less fodder I can pitch to food chain.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
MISC. ALTERNATIVES
Cards that I have considered originally and/or played around with, but ultimately cut them or haven't tried for whatever reason. It doesn't make these cards bad though, but I am playing the deck with certain subthemes and some of these cards don't fit them.
general Instants/Sorceries - You'll first notice that Primal Surge greatly restricts deckbuilding. If you do not want to run Primal Surge, you can remove some of the more unimpressive cards and replace them with instants/sorceries. For example, you won't have to run mediocre cards like Dawntreader Elk or Greenweaver Druid if you could instead run cards like Cultivate or Skyshroud Claim. You'll also get access to very powerful nonpermanents like Time Warp, Knowledge Exploitation and the like.
POWER LEVEL
Cards that I do not run because of money, power level, and so on.
Mass Land Destruction - Jokulhaups, Wildfire, Destructive Force, etc. are all strong, albeit cutthroat, cards to cascade into, and some of them even sweep creatures somewhat. These are very powerful to cascade into, as you can clear the board before Wanderer hits the field because the cascaded spells resolve before Wanderer. If your playgroup is ok with huge land D, these types of cards should go straight in the deck. since they're nonpermanents, you probably won't be playing Primal Surge, so keep that in mind.
In other words, removing Primal Surge allows for different types of cards to go in, but the general strategy will be about the same; you play as a ramp deck and the idea is to play threats over answers. Although it's worth noting that playing with mass land D also allows you to play a more control-ish type deck, which RUG colors are still capable of doing (throw in counterspells that don't suck when cascaded into, such as Cryptic Command, and it can be fine in wanderer).
I also don't know why your playgroup wouldn't like boundless realms unless they just hate ramp cards.
wouldn't it be better to just have a sliver general?
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
Please look at and comment on the above! Looking for any advice and thoughts!
Power level is always easy to tweak, but my playgroup isn't that cutthroat. Of course this deck can make simple and quick adjustments to card power level to fit your playgroup.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
+ Prophet of Kruphix
+ Shivan Reef
+ Yavimaya Coast
- Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
- 1 island
- 1 Forest
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
T1 Sol ring
T2 Garruk
T3 Oracle, Food Chain
T4 Wanderer cascades into animar
of course this was against a table of green decks that were tapping out for ramp, but it still was interesting that this deck could power out a quick kill, albeit it needs a pretty nutty draw.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
Please look at and comment on the above! Looking for any advice and thoughts!
+ Garruk Wildspeaker
+ Thassa, God of the Sea
+ Equilibirum
- Mindclaw Shaman
- Dawntreader Elk
- Greenweaver Druid
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
+ Fire-lit Thicket
+ Flooded Grove
+ Ancient Tomb
+ Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
+ Karametra's Acolyte
- Vivid Grove
- Vivid Creek
- Vivid Crag
- Skullclamp
- Trinket Mage
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
I decided to get the two missing filter lands to complement Cascade Bluffs. They're not cheap, but the mana fixing is required, and vivids are very bad tempo plays.
Ancient Tomb is basically a better Temple of the False God.
Rofellos is not nearly as bonkers as he is in a monogreen deck, but there should still be enough forests to tap for 2-3 mana on a 2-drop early on, which is more than enough.
In a similar vein, Karametra's Acolyte is being tested. It starts as an expensive Llanowar Elf/Greenweaver Druid, but once devotion is 4 or greater it's a decent card.
Skullclamp got cut. There are fewer than 10 creatures that I really like clamping away; things like clamping Birds of Paradise are only desperate measures and not something I want to do often. It's not as abusive as it can be in a token deck and doesn't play to its potential power level. Normally I'd rather have another ramp spell in place of skullclamp early in the game unless I also have the 1-toughness creatures I want to clamp away as well.
With skullclamp out, I can relatively safely cut Trinket Mage. It's either a 4 mana sol ring or 4 mana top and those plays are fine but not great.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
Also, with your emphasis on creature-based ramping, I would highly recommend the full suite of Nantuko Elder, Fyndhorn Elder, Greenweaver Druid, Palladium Myr, and Overgrowth. The seem silly, but are incredibly efficient and getting turn four Wanderers. Another card in that vein that I don't see on your list is Worn Powerstone. All just food for thought, but they really help bring the average Wanderer turn a lot lower. Good stuff.
Anyway, cool list, man, hope it continues to work out well for you.
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
However I'm also on the fence about Primal Surge too. It's a hilarious card but it's often a one-card "oops i win" spell, which can be pretty unfun for people on the receiving end. Even if I remove Primal Surge I'll be more inclined to run creatures that make mana because they can be exiled with Food Chain though.
As for the ramp, too much ramp makes your lategame weaker and your wanderer cascades weaker, making a tradeoff between explosiveness vs resiliency. The creature ramp cards (like Greenweaver Druid) ramp harder than the land ramp creatures (like wood elves) but again it's explosiveness vs resiliency (since creatures die more often than lands). With that said I do have to still decide on the course I want for this deck. I can't decide on whether to be a balls-to-the-walls deck or a midrange deck.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
also has anyone used tempt with discovery? It seems like one of the few tempting offer cards that may actually tempt players to use it.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
I really don't like Tempt, personally. It is a card that rewards us for playing against low quality opponents. Against good players, its best-case scenario is limited version of Reap and Sow, which is a card I don't see any of us playing. It is similar to Collective Voyage, which most people have recognized as a poor card. You might catch someone the first time they ever see it, but after that, people understand how to play against it.
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
But my guess is that the good players don't fall for it, or they fetch lands better than yours (like that black deck gets his cabal coffers), or they just fetch lands and then gang up on you. Eh.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
Lmao, yeah, I am just worried that if anyone else actually goes and gets lands, they simply outclass what I am getting. We don't run Gaea's Cradle but the decks that do... oh boy.
I think this guy is good in standard, but for us, we get the same amount of ramp out of 1-drops, and the body and hexproof are bot irrelevant. At :1mana::symg:, we would rather probably play any number of fellows from Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary to Priest of Titania, which have more upside. Granted Rofellos is expensive. Also, in non-boundless surge builds, we also prefer Rampant Growth variants at :1mana::symg:. But Caryatid is a fine place holder if you are looking to build a Wanderer deck and don't have the optimal ramp cards yet.
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer