Yes, you need Propaganda effects to survive the early game against aggro.
This deck-list is very neat and organized; I like that.
I see more and more people are playing Stax now.
How does this deck play out for you?
Do you see yourself get flooded with mana rocks and lands with no action spells?
- You will face this issue a lot without any filtering spells like Compulsion and Unfulfilled Desires. Trust me, after a certain point in the game, lands aren't so great to top deck anymore.
I'd remove Mishra's Workshop if your proxy'n to test it usefulness which isn't too great unless you go Vintage U-Workshop route and only splashing black/white as support.
Run the filter Lorwyn filterlands, ABU dual lands, Shocks, and a few man lands for non-basics. Academy Ruins, Strip Mine, Wasteland deserves a spot, but the others are garbage. If you run Back to Basics; you must run at least 15 basics or more. 6 fetch lands are needed if you aggressively tutor up Back to Basics post Armageddon scenario.
Counterbalance is only good in a deck with 20+ counters in your list, and it would be a late-game lock out combo with Sensei's Divining Top.
Running 34/35 lands is fine if you have 8-12 mana rocks.
Your land count should be sometime like this in a competitive meta. If you run a list like this, your friends must just as competitive as this your attempt of Zur Stax.
Lands fully optimized should be this and there is no deviation if you want consistency. Consistency is key to success and the occasional victory against your friends; whether you lose or win.
- 5/6 fetches
- 3 ABU duals
- 3 Shock Ravnica shocks
- 3 Lorwyn Filters
- Academy Ruins
- Strip Mine
- Wasteland
- Man-lands (Your call)
- 18/19 Basics
- Tabernacle
I see why people use Command Tower, but I took it out of all my decks because I didn't need it. I was a victim for my love of early game non-basics to secure my colours for future turns. When an early Back to Basics, Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon...I was severely hindered to make progress in the game like I planned it before the game started.
As far as GP and Propaganda go, I'd say it's fairly meta dependant.
My meta is combo heavy for the most part and the other decks only need one or two creatures to wreck my face. I might eventually run one of them.
Since you run more creatures, perhaps Trinket Mage?
Gets SDT, Tormod's Crypt, Nihil Spellbomb, Pithing Needle, Grafdigger's Cage and a bunch of mana rocks. Seems nice with Sun Titan recursion. And as a decent tutor that provides a body to carry swords. Which is my next point. No swords?
And Necropotence is one of my favorite enchantments to grab with Zur.
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DCI Level 1 Judge-
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the awesome Sig.
Do you see yourself get flooded with mana rocks and lands with no action spells?
- You will face this issue a lot without any filtering spells like Compulsion and Unfulfilled Desires. Trust me, after a certain point in the game, lands aren't so great to top deck anymore.
After making Zur, I have EDH aggro, combo, control-ish, and stax decks; I also have a zero budget Kaalia and a bird themed deck, but both are really battleship, kitchen table casual.
You're correct on the lack of card draw and deck thinning; a couple of games have gone... draw land, go. I have two cards that are fillers, Counterbalance and Solitary Confinement, and IMO one card that hasn't perform well, Mox Diamond. That gives me three slots. For sure, I am going to add Fact or Fiction (card draw) and Land Tax (deck thinning), leaving one more slot. Was thinking about adding a Sculpting Steel or a low CC draw spell. What would you put in the last spot?
I'd remove Mishra's Workshop if your proxy'n to test it usefulness which isn't too great unless you go Vintage U-Workshop route and only splashing black/white as support.
Run the filter Lorwyn filterlands, ABU dual lands, Shocks, and a few man lands for non-basics. Academy Ruins, Strip Mine, Wasteland deserves a spot, but the others are garbage. If you run Back to Basics; you must run at least 15 basics or more. 6 fetch lands are needed if you aggressively tutor up Back to Basics post Armageddon scenario.
Good call on the filter lands. Will have to pick them up. I have no problem with removing any three of the following lands: Ancient Tomb, Bojuka Bog, City of Brass, or Mishra's Workshop. However, I do like the mana boost of Ancient Tomb, so I am leaning towards cutting the others.
I know it is legal to run the 'off-colored' fetches, however I am on that other side... you know, that camp... people who think that a playable fetch should be able to get both colors, so no off-colored fetches. I know it makes my decks 'less competitive' but that's my drawback.
As far as GP and Propaganda go, I'd say it's fairly meta dependant.
My meta is combo heavy for the most part and the other decks only need one or two creatures to wreck my face. I might eventually run one of them.
Since you run more creatures, perhaps Trinket Mage?
Gets SDT, Tormod's Crypt, Nihil Spellbomb, Pithing Needle, Grafdigger's Cage and a bunch of mana rocks. Seems nice with Sun Titan recursion. And as a decent tutor that provides a body to carry swords. Which is my next point. No swords?
And Necropotence is one of my favorite enchantments to grab with Zur.
Yeah, 32 lands was too light. Currently, I am running 34 lands.
Regarding Ghostly Prison and Propaganda, I agree on building towards your meta. And it sounds like we have similiar metas; creature light and combo heavy. I was just asking opinions for a well rounded stax deck; so I don't have to switch out cards if I go somewhere else.
Necropotence. I found the missing card for the last slot! Thanks!
The Argivian Archaeologist would give another way to recurr artifacts from the graveyard, especially Smokestack since Sun Titan cannot retrieve it from the yard. Possible cut for Archaeologist could be GAAIV.
Chain of Mephistopheles would disrupt most other decks draw engines. CoM could replace Phyrexian Arena since they do not play well together. CoM plays a little better with Mystic Remora and Rhystic Study since the draw is optional (unless we have something in our hand we don't mind discarding), however still lets us draw one free card on each opponents turn.
Not sure about those cards but why 0 countermagic ;/. Even a lone FoW maybe I mean your general tutors necro into play. I mean I see defense grid I guess you just don't want to play them?
Do you see yourself get flooded with mana rocks and lands with no action spells?
- You will face this issue a lot without any filtering spells like Compulsion and Unfulfilled Desires. Trust me, after a certain point in the game, lands aren't so great to top deck anymore.
Still some issues with flooded land and mana rocks in the late game; going to fit in Compulsion for filtering.
Not sure about those cards but why 0 countermagic ;/. Even a lone FoW maybe I mean your general tutors necro into play. I mean I see defense grid I guess you just don't want to play them?
You know many counter-blue decks have trouble with Esper Stax? Hmm, do I counterspell this Bitterblossom or lose the game through incremental advantage. Damn, they resolved Smokestack and I have no way to get rid of it. I've won so many games off resolving Bitterblossom if there isn't 4 Stax deck in the game.
I lose! Next game?
It depends on how the blue decks take a lost; playing a deck like this is the ultimate test for their patients and "sore-loserness".
I would probably add in Power Artifact since you run G-Monolith. I'm a proponent of Stasis + Forsaken City as well. I will say that I'm not a huge fan of mana hungry permanents in Stax decks. (Compulsion, Trading Post etc.) I would suggest at the very least looking at the "No" rocks package of Cursed Totem, Damping Matrix, Tsabo's Web and Null Rod/Stony Silence.
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For Lists, Click Here EDH: GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU. UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax RW: Gisela, Boros Control RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?! B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
Unfortunately, parted with some of the power cards; Imperial Seal, Intuition, and Ravages of War are no longer. Played six games (4 man pods) over the weekend and managed to win three of the games; the other games went two to hermit druid and one to kaalia (!).
I used to run The Abyss but eventually took it out. Felt it didn't make enough impact. Also, does not play well with Nether Void because of the enchant world type; in most games between the two enchant worlds, I wanted Nether Void on the field.
I do not have any experience with Crackdown. Forgive me if this is incorrect (my card tag pop ups are disabled currently) but if you want the tapped down effect, couldn't this be Meekstone? Cheaper CC and not color dependent...
If I kept my Moat, it would be in the deck. Zur cannot fetch it, but Moat is still strong; combined with Humility you become Stax-P.Fort. Unfulfilled Desires fits the same role as Compulsion. Could be better because of the cheaper activation cost, while the life loss is manageable.
I would probably add in Power Artifact since you run G-Monolith. I'm a proponent of Stasis + Forsaken City as well. I will say that I'm not a huge fan of mana hungry permanents in Stax decks. (Compulsion, Trading Post etc.) I would suggest at the very least looking at the "No" rocks package of Cursed Totem, Damping Matrix, Tsabo's Web and Null Rod/Stony Silence.
Also might want to look at Into the Eye of Chaos. Fetchable with Zur shuts off combo and dosent effect the deck to much.
Glad the deck performs well for you, too. The mentioned subpar cards have been removed. If I find myself wanting a Compulsion back, I would probably go with Unfulfilled Desires.
Added a couple more creatures [Gilded Drake (steals best board creature), Ophiomancer (Deathtouch snake that replaces itself!), and Withered Wretch (more graveyard hate)] and Propaganda to help protect early game. Too many times lately, sit down in a pod and an opponent will comment 'attack and kill the Zur player, you'll thank me later...'
I would like to work Land Equilibrium back into the deck; Propaganda, IIRC, was the initial replacement but I may still need Propaganda. Suggestions on a cut?
Pictures, coming soon.
00 Zur the Enchanter
//Artifact
01 Arcane Signet
02 Azorius Signet
03 Chrome Mox
04 Coalition Relic
05 Dimir Signet
06 Grim Monolith
07 Mana Crypt
08 Mana Vault
09 Mox Diamond
10 Mox Opal
11 Orzhov Signet
12 Sol Ring
13 Talisman of Dominance
14 Talisman of Progress
15 Thought Vessel
16 Crucible of Worlds
17 Lightning Greaves
18 Sensei's Divining Top
19 Tangle Wire
20 Torpor Orb
21 Winter Orb
//Creature
22 Spellskite
23 Esper Sentinel
24 Aven Mindcensor
25 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
26 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
27 Sun Titan
28 Snapcaster Mage
29 Opposition Agent
30 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
31 Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
32 Notion Thief
33 Aura of Silence
34 Oblivion Ring
35 Rest in Peace
36 Solitary Confinement
37 Mystic Remora
38 Land Equilibrium
39 Mana Vortex
40 Propaganda
41 Rhystic Study
42 Necropotence
//Instant
43 Enlightened Tutor
44 Swords to Plowshares
45 Arcane Denial
46 Brainstorm
47 Cyclonic Rift
48 Delay
49 Dig Through Time
50 Dispel
51 Fierce Guardianship
52 Flusterstorm
53 Mana Drain
54 Mystical Tutor
55 Spell Pierce
56 Swan Song
57 Vampiric Tutor
//Planeswalker
58 Ashiok, Dream Render
59 Dovin, Hand of Control
60 Narset, Parter of Veils
61 Teferi, Time Raveler
//Sorcery
62 Armageddon
63 Preordain
64 Windfall
65 Demonic Tutor
66 Toxic Deluge
67 Plains
68 Plains
69 Plains
70 Plains
71 Plains
72 Island
73 Island
74 Island
75 Island
76 Island
77 Swamp
78 Swamp
79 Swamp
80 Academy Ruins
81 Ancient Tomb
82 Cavern of Souls
83 Command Tower
84 Flagstones of Trokair
85 Flooded Strand
86 Godless Shrine
87 Hall of Heliod's Generosity
88 Hall of the Bandit Lord
89 Hallowed Fountain
90 Marsh Flats
91 Polluted Delta
92 Prismatic Vista
93 Reliquary Tower
94 Scrubland
95 Strip Mine
96 Tundra
97 Underground Sea
98 Volrath's Stronghold
99 Watery Grave
Combo
Traded to upgrade the mana base.
This deck-list is very neat and organized; I like that.
I see more and more people are playing Stax now.
How does this deck play out for you?
Do you see yourself get flooded with mana rocks and lands with no action spells?
- You will face this issue a lot without any filtering spells like Compulsion and Unfulfilled Desires. Trust me, after a certain point in the game, lands aren't so great to top deck anymore.
I'd remove Mishra's Workshop if your proxy'n to test it usefulness which isn't too great unless you go Vintage U-Workshop route and only splashing black/white as support.
Run the filter Lorwyn filterlands, ABU dual lands, Shocks, and a few man lands for non-basics. Academy Ruins, Strip Mine, Wasteland deserves a spot, but the others are garbage. If you run Back to Basics; you must run at least 15 basics or more. 6 fetch lands are needed if you aggressively tutor up Back to Basics post Armageddon scenario.
Counterbalance is only good in a deck with 20+ counters in your list, and it would be a late-game lock out combo with Sensei's Divining Top.
Running 34/35 lands is fine if you have 8-12 mana rocks.
Your land count should be sometime like this in a competitive meta. If you run a list like this, your friends must just as competitive as this your attempt of Zur Stax.
Lands fully optimized should be this and there is no deviation if you want consistency. Consistency is key to success and the occasional victory against your friends; whether you lose or win.
- 5/6 fetches
- 3 ABU duals
- 3 Shock Ravnica shocks
- 3 Lorwyn Filters
- Academy Ruins
- Strip Mine
- Wasteland
- Man-lands (Your call)
- 18/19 Basics
- Tabernacle
I see why people use Command Tower, but I took it out of all my decks because I didn't need it. I was a victim for my love of early game non-basics to secure my colours for future turns. When an early Back to Basics, Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon...I was severely hindered to make progress in the game like I planned it before the game started.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
As far as GP and Propaganda go, I'd say it's fairly meta dependant.
My meta is combo heavy for the most part and the other decks only need one or two creatures to wreck my face. I might eventually run one of them.
Since you run more creatures, perhaps Trinket Mage?
Gets SDT, Tormod's Crypt, Nihil Spellbomb, Pithing Needle, Grafdigger's Cage and a bunch of mana rocks. Seems nice with Sun Titan recursion. And as a decent tutor that provides a body to carry swords. Which is my next point. No swords?
And Necropotence is one of my favorite enchantments to grab with Zur.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the awesome Sig.
Currently Playing- EDH
GGGOmnath, Locus of the LifestreamGGG
BBBShirei, Lord of PoniesBBB
UWRasputin Dreamweaver, Russia's Greatest Love MachineUW
UBWZur, Killer of FunUBW
UGWTreva, Princess of CanterlotUGW
RWTajic, Master of the Reverse BladeRW
RRRZirilan, How to Train Your DragonRRR
PDH Decks
Gelectrode
Ascended Lawmage
Blaze Commando
After making Zur, I have EDH aggro, combo, control-ish, and stax decks; I also have a zero budget Kaalia and a bird themed deck, but both are really battleship, kitchen table casual.
You're correct on the lack of card draw and deck thinning; a couple of games have gone... draw land, go. I have two cards that are fillers, Counterbalance and Solitary Confinement, and IMO one card that hasn't perform well, Mox Diamond. That gives me three slots. For sure, I am going to add Fact or Fiction (card draw) and Land Tax (deck thinning), leaving one more slot. Was thinking about adding a Sculpting Steel or a low CC draw spell. What would you put in the last spot?
Good call on the filter lands. Will have to pick them up. I have no problem with removing any three of the following lands: Ancient Tomb, Bojuka Bog, City of Brass, or Mishra's Workshop. However, I do like the mana boost of Ancient Tomb, so I am leaning towards cutting the others.
I know it is legal to run the 'off-colored' fetches, however I am on that other side... you know, that camp... people who think that a playable fetch should be able to get both colors, so no off-colored fetches. I know it makes my decks 'less competitive' but that's my drawback.
Yeah, 32 lands was too light. Currently, I am running 34 lands.
Regarding Ghostly Prison and Propaganda, I agree on building towards your meta. And it sounds like we have similiar metas; creature light and combo heavy. I was just asking opinions for a well rounded stax deck; so I don't have to switch out cards if I go somewhere else.
Necropotence. I found the missing card for the last slot! Thanks!
The Argivian Archaeologist would give another way to recurr artifacts from the graveyard, especially Smokestack since Sun Titan cannot retrieve it from the yard. Possible cut for Archaeologist could be GAAIV.
Chain of Mephistopheles would disrupt most other decks draw engines. CoM could replace Phyrexian Arena since they do not play well together. CoM plays a little better with Mystic Remora and Rhystic Study since the draw is optional (unless we have something in our hand we don't mind discarding), however still lets us draw one free card on each opponents turn.
Thoughts?
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Still some issues with flooded land and mana rocks in the late game; going to fit in Compulsion for filtering.
Changes
You know many counter-blue decks have trouble with Esper Stax? Hmm, do I counterspell this Bitterblossom or lose the game through incremental advantage. Damn, they resolved Smokestack and I have no way to get rid of it. I've won so many games off resolving Bitterblossom if there isn't 4 Stax deck in the game.
I lose! Next game?
It depends on how the blue decks take a lost; playing a deck like this is the ultimate test for their patients and "sore-loserness".
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the awesome Sig.
Currently Playing- EDH
GGGOmnath, Locus of the LifestreamGGG
BBBShirei, Lord of PoniesBBB
UWRasputin Dreamweaver, Russia's Greatest Love MachineUW
UBWZur, Killer of FunUBW
UGWTreva, Princess of CanterlotUGW
RWTajic, Master of the Reverse BladeRW
RRRZirilan, How to Train Your DragonRRR
PDH Decks
Gelectrode
Ascended Lawmage
Blaze Commando
How bout the new Blue GOD?
For Lists, Click Here
EDH:
GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU.
UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat
BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation
UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery
RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven
UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron
BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax
RW: Gisela, Boros Control
RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck
RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?!
B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed
R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
These seemed sup-par to me.
Night of Souls' Betrayal
Compulsion
Also might want to look at Into the Eye of Chaos. Fetchable with Zur shuts off combo and dosent effect the deck to much.
CardboardCreationism
ETSY COUNTERS
Still don't own one of these...
I used to run The Abyss but eventually took it out. Felt it didn't make enough impact. Also, does not play well with Nether Void because of the enchant world type; in most games between the two enchant worlds, I wanted Nether Void on the field.
I do not have any experience with Crackdown. Forgive me if this is incorrect (my card tag pop ups are disabled currently) but if you want the tapped down effect, couldn't this be Meekstone? Cheaper CC and not color dependent...
If I kept my Moat, it would be in the deck. Zur cannot fetch it, but Moat is still strong; combined with Humility you become Stax-P.Fort.
Unfulfilled Desires fits the same role as Compulsion. Could be better because of the cheaper activation cost, while the life loss is manageable.
I run the Forsaken City and Stasis in my Angus Mackenzie deck along with Garruk Wildspeaker.
Glad the deck performs well for you, too. The mentioned subpar cards have been removed. If I find myself wanting a Compulsion back, I would probably go with Unfulfilled Desires.
Added a couple more creatures [Gilded Drake (steals best board creature), Ophiomancer (Deathtouch snake that replaces itself!), and Withered Wretch (more graveyard hate)] and Propaganda to help protect early game. Too many times lately, sit down in a pod and an opponent will comment 'attack and kill the Zur player, you'll thank me later...'