Last Updated: January 4th 2015 - Stax Version
Major overhaul! As I picked up some old Legends cards, that go well with a stax strategy - namely Nether Void and Chains of Mephistopheles - I decided to take the deck, that considerably underperformed lately, in the currently en vogue direction of resource denial.
Old introductory text:
I have been building a black/green Elves Deck forever it seems. It started out when Savra came about in Ravnica and went through countless iterations: First in 60-cards form, then EDH-style, adding Nath and now Glissa during its evolution.
I just don't know who I like more of the three possible generals. Currently I am tinkering with the notion of shunning the elf strategy altogether, going more for G/B-goodstuff and synergy with the trinity - who play really well with each other: Nath's discard theme is good protection, producing tokens to help out Savra's sacrifice theme and Glissa is just good recursion, which ties in to the other two with artifact creatures.
Still, I know, this is not the best the deck can be. So I'd be really thankful for your input on how to improve the deck.
The Deck has some weakness against Mass Removal, of course. But it's not helpless. Still, it needs quite a bit of time to set up, though it plays well with just one or two of the "main characters".
I'd be glad to hear your suggestions; also regarding the aspect of moving the deck away from the elves theme. I'm trying to make this deck as good as it can be with the triple theme going. If you suggest cards to add, please take some time to also suggest what to remove for the addition.
The first thing I'd say would be if you want to play this many strategies at once, you're going to need a lot of tutors and card draw to keep from having to mash the puzzle pieces together from three different strategies to keep something going. Phyrexian Arena, Necropotence, Demonic Tutor, Beseech the Queen, etc. That also gives you the goahead to get nasty at the hardcore table with Bitterblossom/Contamination. At the very least, if cash is a concern, just get Phyrexian Arena. It is so easy to win a game when you drop it T3 and no one has an answer for it.
Thopter Assembly or Pentavus or Triskelavus would be a huge boon for your side generals. They're artifact creature token machines and both Savra and Glissa benefit from them and they go nuts with Grave Pact. That's the angle I'd consider taking with my creatures if I were you. Try to include cards like those that make Nath's ladyfriends happy
Cuts I'd make include the following:
Night's Whisper (straight sub for Arena or Necropotence)
Arashi
Nissa Revane (she's not good without a lot of Nissa's Chosen)
Liliana's Specter (frying pan to a gunfight)
Plague Wind (Butcher of Malakir is better for your deck for less mana... besides, PW only hits one player. Also, Barter in Blood is a HOUSE in here.)
Elvish Visionary (Cantrip 1/1 isn't gonna cut it)
Elves of Deep Shadow (you don't need mana dorks that badly)
Wellwisher (How many elves to you expect to have in play with all the sac'ing going on?)
*Actually, any number of elves could go. Why not cut most of the elf theme all together and just play a token theme instead? The elf benefit just seems too marginal. You and your three generals stand to gain much more from a general token strategy than just elves. And the more that are artifact creature tokens, the better. I don't know how attached you are to elves, but consider the argument at least. The creatures Nath will make once in a while will be better off as sac fodder, right? So then it doesn't matter that they're actually elves, just that they're creatures in the first place.
I'd also play some more ramp if I could find room. Explosive Vegetation and Cultivate/Kodama's Reach are just boss.
Slaughter would maybe be better as Ashes to Ashes. Once you buy it back, folks will be on to you. Ashes to Ashes lets you exile guys too. I like guaranteed two-fer-ones.
The first thing I'd say would be if you want to play this many strategies at once, you're going to need a lot of tutors and card draw to keep from having to mash the puzzle pieces together from three different strategies to keep something going. Phyrexian Arena, Necropotence, Demonic Tutor, Beseech the Queen, etc. That also gives you the goahead to get nasty at the hardcore table with Bitterblossom/Contamination. At the very least, if cash is a concern, just get Phyrexian Arena. It is so easy to win a game when you drop it T3 and no one has an answer for it.
Thopter Assembly or Pentavus or Triskelavus would be a huge boon for your side generals. They're artifact creature token machines and both Savra and Glissa benefit from them and they go nuts with Grave Pact. That's the angle I'd consider taking with my creatures if I were you. Try to include cards like those that make Nath's ladyfriends happy
Cuts I'd make include the following:
Night's Whisper (straight sub for Arena or Necropotence)
Arashi
Nissa Revane (she's not good without a lot of Nissa's Chosen)
Liliana's Specter (frying pan to a gunfight)
Plague Wind (Butcher of Malakir is better for your deck for less mana... besides, PW only hits one player. Also, Barter in Blood is a HOUSE in here.)
Elvish Visionary (Cantrip 1/1 isn't gonna cut it)
Elves of Deep Shadow (you don't need mana dorks that badly)
Wellwisher (How many elves to you expect to have in play with all the sac'ing going on?)
*Actually, any number of elves could go. Why not cut most of the elf theme all together and just play a token theme instead? The elf benefit just seems too marginal. You and your three generals stand to gain much more from a general token strategy than just elves. And the more that are artifact creature tokens, the better. I don't know how attached you are to elves, but consider the argument at least. The creatures Nath will make once in a while will be better off as sac fodder, right? So then it doesn't matter that they're actually elves, just that they're creatures in the first place.
I'd also play some more ramp if I could find room. Explosive Vegetation and Cultivate/Kodama's Reach are just boss.
Slaughter would maybe be better as Ashes to Ashes. Once you buy it back, folks will be on to you. Ashes to Ashes lets you exile guys too. I like guaranteed two-fer-ones.
Just wanted to add Mind Slash is some sweet piece of anti-combo tech. I like it! Never even heard of it before.
Good luck with the deck. I hope it works out for you! If it were me, I'd go hard on the artifact token strategy but do what works best for you.
Thanks for that extensive analysis and the props on the flavor, SuperSonik!
I believe you're absolutely right about the card draw and tutoring. Cash is not really a concern, so I'll go and find a Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor and Phyrexian Arena. Are there any other good draws in B/G? I'm a bit iffy on Necropotence and Beseech the Queen. Mainly due to the Mana costs.
I also like the idea of a focusing on artifact tokens. Triskelavus an Pentavus sound awesome. I'm not too attached to the elf theme, they worked good for mana ramp, but I might as well go more into artifacts for that purpose now with Glissa in on the fun. I'll try that direction out. Pity, the ladies are a bit jealous of each other sometimes and Savra is rather picky as to what color creatures sacrificed are.
Concerning the specific cards: Plague Wind does muder all creatures you do not control. So I'll keep that in for the time being. But maybe Deed, and Oblivion Stone would be better after all?
I'll get rid of the smaller elves definitely. Slaughter is actually quite good! Once you play it, it's a nice deterrent. Though it does not hit black creatures.
Nissa can go and make room for Garruk, maybe. *ponders*
Can't believe I forgot about Bloodghast! Though the Skeleton I'm not so sure about. I've seen it used by opponent's and it was rather underwhelming. Liliana's Specter is discard, that can be sacced and recurred, but maybe it's not needed/too weak. Would you rather go with Myojin of Night's Reach?
What do you think of, Kagemaro, First to Suffer for some recurrable mass removal?
I'd really appreciate some more input!
Ardeyn
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- A single spark of passion can change a man forever. -
Also DERP on Savra caring about colored creatures. Have you tried Creakwood Liege with her? Seems good...
Deed is fantastic. If you can get one, definitely consider playing it. You can't recur it with Glissa but its just so useful I don't see how one could resist. Same deal with Maelstrom Pulse.
I'd consider playing Nev's Disk instead of Plague Wind. It costs a lot less and you will always be able to recur it if Glissa is on the battlefield. It might not hurt to play with an Eldrazi Monument if you can get enough token mass...
As for the discard slot, Liliana's Specter is just too weak. It's only one card, you know? Even if you recur it a bunch of times, it's not that great. Myojin is so good with your Commander he should probably be there instead, but make sure you're playing enough lands and ramp to justify your 8-9 mana spells. I always start at 38 land and 5+ mana stones, and if I'm in green I will play at least 2-3 ramp spells. You don't want to be dead before you get to cast him!
Kagemaro is very good if you can bring him back even once. At the same time though, he's a non-bo with your mass discard spells, so watch out for that.
As for more B+G draw, Greater Good is a hell of sac outlet that will also get dig you through your library for things while filling up your GY with goodies. If you are playing 30+ creatures, Lurking Predators is nutty CA as well. It's not an autoinclude though because if you're not playing enough creatures, it'll whiff too much. I also don't see Sensei's Divining Top- any reason (besides the fact it's gotten expensive these days? That's pretty much an autoinclude.
Thanks for some more ideas! I haven't had the chance to try out the deck recently, but I like some of the suggestions. Creakwood Liege will go in, same as the Myojin of Night's Reach.
I'm a little reluctant to add Deed and friends, as I'll be hard pressed to recover from them, it seems. Maybe if I reduce the creature count further. Or add Eldrazi Monument, which sounds good.
I should probably add Butcher of Malakir as another Grave Pact/Savra effect, that can also beat on people.
Top isn't in there because it hardly is good enough with too few shuffle effects. Lurking Predators is a nice idea, especially with Volrath's Stronghold to go with it.
That's so many good things, it's hard to tell what direction to take. I'll have to play this baby some more.
Keep the ideas coming! I'd be really glad to see some off-track gems.
Ardeyn
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Made a variety of changes, moving the deck away from its initial elf theme.
Still haven't gotten every card I'd like to be in there, but it's getting stronger and stronger.
Memory Jar is just beautiful. Had a game the other day, where it drew a fresh hand to play some stuff, netted 14(!) elves, filled my graveyard with some nice recursion targets and was recurrable itself with Glissa. Ties the deck together nicely. Gaea's Cradle and Mana Reflection is nuts, though even more important was the Contamination lock against the Arcanis player.
Debating over taking out Plague Wind for Butcher of Malakir or Massacer Wurm and looking forward to Sheoldred. Do you think Mass removal is required in a deck such as this?
Ardeyn
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Just yesterday I dusted off Nath and his Courtesans to face off against Grimgrin (Zombie Mill), Brion (Goodstuff) and Sigarda (Angels).
Shortly after the game started I regretted having taken out Plague Wind, which had been - as I realized - my only way of killing Sigarda.
Nath is actually my only deck without mass creature wipes. They have never been necessary due to the abundance of grave pact effects and repeatable spot removal in the list. Also I hate having to wipe my own board; especially Pernicious Deed is a terrible hit against me.
Now I'm contemplating solutions to the "angel problem" - similar to what's going on in the how to beat Sigarda thread in the main EDH forum.
I actually think, Arashi, the Sky Asunder or Silklash Spider would be decent ways to handle flying onslaughts in general.
Yesterday's game was won by the Brion player, who had quite a number of boardwipes and - surprise, surprise - a number of flying beatsticks to carry home the win.
What would you guys do? Any advice on the "angel dilemma"?
Any suggestions to the list above?
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Since I got hold of a couple of old Legends cards and thanks to Phil's fabulous Stax Primer as well as the inspiring deck by JWK, I retooled my old Nath deck to go the route of resource denial.
It's still not full on stax, but so far I like how it can still do big stuff, while denying opponents a lot of their comfortable action range.
I'd be glad to get some advice, how to further improve the deck.
Ardeyn
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Major overhaul! As I picked up some old Legends cards, that go well with a stax strategy - namely Nether Void and Chains of Mephistopheles - I decided to take the deck, that considerably underperformed lately, in the currently en vogue direction of resource denial.
Old introductory text:
I just don't know who I like more of the three possible generals. Currently I am tinkering with the notion of shunning the elf strategy altogether, going more for G/B-goodstuff and synergy with the trinity - who play really well with each other: Nath's discard theme is good protection, producing tokens to help out Savra's sacrifice theme and Glissa is just good recursion, which ties in to the other two with artifact creatures.
Still, I know, this is not the best the deck can be. So I'd be really thankful for your input on how to improve the deck.
Decklist by function:
5 Nath of the Gilt-Leaf
the Courtesans: (2)
3 Glissa, the Traitor
4 Savra, Queen of the Golgari
Retainers: (3)
1 Deathrite Shaman
2 Blood Artist
4 Sangromancer
War & Attrition: (13)
3 Contamination
3 Reclamation Sage
3 Putrefy
3 Toxic Deluge
3 Attrition
3 Fleshbag Marauder
4 Grave Pact
4 Smokestack
4 Nether Void
5 Acidic Slime
5 Shriekmaw
6 Massacre Wurm
3 Death Cloud
Sacrificial Lambs: (8)
2 Reassembling Skeleton
2 Bitterblossom
2 Necrogenesis
3 Squirrel Nest
3 Imperious Perfect
3 Ophiomancer
4 Creakwood Liege
6 Grave Titan
Emissaries: (3)
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Garruk Relentless
5 Liliana Vess
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Profane Command
2 Life from the Loam
3 Eternal Witness
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Strands of Night
7 Sheoldred, the Whispering One
Poison & Wine: (19)
1 Expedition Map
1 Skullclamp
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Anvil of Bogardan
2 Sylvan Library
2 Diabolic Intent
2 Demonic Tutor
2 Waste Not
3 Mind Slash
3 Underworld Connections
4 Syphon Mind
4 Ill-Gotten Gains
4 Abundance
4 Birthing Pod
4 Dimir Houseguard
5 Memory Jar
5 Sadistic Hypnotist
6 Kokusho, the Evening Star
8 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
Provisions: (9)
1 Sol Ring
1 Arbor Elf
2 Earthcraft
2 Golgari Signet
3 Yavimaya Elder
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
5 Black Market
6 Mana Reflection
1 Wirewood Lodge
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Twilight Mire
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Gilt-Leaf Palace
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Deserted Temple
1 High Market
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Grim Backwoods
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Barren Moor
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Strip Mine
7 Forest
7 Swamp
Deck by Card Type:
5 Nath of the Gilt-Leaf
Creatures: (25)
1 Arbor Elf
1 Deathrite Shaman
2 Blood Artist
2 Reassembling Skeleton
3 Glissa, the Traitor
3 Reclamation Sage
3 Fleshbag Marauder
3 Imperious Perfect
3 Ophiomancer
3 Yavimaya Elder
3 Eternal Witness
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Creakwood Liege
4 Sangromancer
4 Savra, Queen of the Golgari
4 Dimir Houseguard
5 Acidic Slime
5 Shriekmaw
5 Sadistic Hypnotist
6 Kokusho, the Evening Star
6 Massacre Wurm
6 Grave Titan
7 Sheoldred, the Whispering One
8 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
Enchantments: (17)
2 Bitterblossom
2 Necrogenesis
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Earthcraft
2 Sylvan Library
2 Waste Not
3 Mind Slash
3 Underworld Connections
3 Squirrel Nest
3 Contamination
3 Attrition
4 Abundance
4 Grave Pact
4 Nether Void
4 Strands of Night
5 Black Market
6 Mana Reflection
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Expedition Map
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
2 Golgari Signet
2 Anvil of Bogardan
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Smokestack
4 Birthing Pod
5 Memory Jar
Planeswalkers: (3)
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Garruk Relentless
5 Liliana Vess
Instants: (1)
3 Putrefy
Sorceries: (8)
2 Profane Command
2 Life from the Loam
2 Diabolic Intent
2 Demonic Tutor
3 Toxic Deluge
4 Syphon Mind
4 Ill-Gotten Gains
3 Death Cloud
Lands: (35)
1 Wirewood Lodge
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Twilight Mire
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Gilt-Leaf Palace
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Deserted Temple
1 High Market
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Grim Backwoods
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Barren Moor
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Strip Mine
7 Forest
7 Swamp
The Deck has some weakness against Mass Removal, of course. But it's not helpless. Still, it needs quite a bit of time to set up, though it plays well with just one or two of the "main characters".
I'd be glad to hear your suggestions; also regarding the aspect of moving the deck away from the elves theme. I'm trying to make this deck as good as it can be with the triple theme going.
Change Log:
03-25-2011:
- Elves of Deep Shadow + Green Sun's Zenith
- Wellwisher + Sangromancer
- Swamp + Bojuka Bog
03-29-2011:
- Night's Whisper + Graveborn Muse
- Elvish Visionary + Myojin of Night's Reach
04-15-2011:
- Forest + Volrath's Stronghold
- Swamp + High Market
- Priest of Titania + Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
- Nissa Revane + Garruk Wildspeaker
- Nissa's Chosen + Expedition Map
- Liliana's Specter + Memory Jar
- Elvish Archdruid + Yavimaya Elder
- Arashi, the Sky Asunder + Sakura Tribe Elder
03-13-2012
- Words of Waste + Scythe Specter
- Glissa Sunseeker + Acidic Slime
- Deranged Hermit + Creakwood Liege
- Rhys, the Exiled + Solemn Simulacrum
- Joraga Warcaller + Earthcraft
- Masked Admirers + Dimir Houseguard
- Mimic Vat + Garruk Relentless
- Skeletal Vampire + Grave Titan
- Ezuri + Ill-Gotten Gains
- Moriok Replica + Avenger of Zendikar
- Phyrexian Plaguelord + Butcher of Malakir
- Patriarch's Bidding + Sheoldred
- Golgari Guildmage + Massacre Wurm
- Diabolic Tutor + Birthing Pod
04-20-2012
- Plague Wind + Primeval Titan
03-17-2013 (Complete Revamp)
- Primeval Titan + Sylvan Primordial
- Rofellos + Deathrite Shaman
- Green Sun's Zenith + Demonic Tutor
- Sakura Tribe Elder + Golgari Signet
- Avenger of Zendikar + Sol Ring
- Wirewood Herald + Reassembling Skeleton
- Essence Warden + Blood Artist
- Myojin of Night's Reach + Chains of Mephistopheles
- Viridian Zealot + Smokestack
- Sylvok Replica + Braids
- Terastodon + Nether Void
- Swamp + Cavern of Souls
- Swamp + Barren Moor
- Forest + Tranquil Thicket
- Restock + Crucible of Worlds
- Slaughter + Death Cloud
- Executioner's Capsule + Anvil of Bogardan
- Grim Harvest + Life from the Loam
- Sudden Death + Squirrel Nest
- Harmonize + Underworld Connections
- Forest + Strip Mine
2014
- Viridian Shaman + Reclamation Sage
- Braids, Cabal Minion + Ophiomancer
- Geth's Grimoire + Waste Not
- Dread Return + Strands of Night
- Joraga Treespeaker + Arbor Elf
- Graveborn Muse + Sylvan Library
- Sylvan Primordial + Vorinclex
- Butcher of Malakir + Toxic Deluge
- Scythe Specter + Kokusho
- Oversold Cemetery + Abundance
Notable Interactions:
- Nath of the Gilt-Leaf + Sadistic Hypnotist = Each opponent discards his/her hand.
- Nath of the Gilt-Leaf + Mind Slash + Earthcraft = Each opponent discards his/her hand.
- Earthcraft + Squirrel Nest = infinite Squirrels
Wish List:
+ Beast Within
+ Necropotence
+ Sylvan Library / Abundance
Ardeyn
The first thing I'd say would be if you want to play this many strategies at once, you're going to need a lot of tutors and card draw to keep from having to mash the puzzle pieces together from three different strategies to keep something going. Phyrexian Arena, Necropotence, Demonic Tutor, Beseech the Queen, etc. That also gives you the goahead to get nasty at the hardcore table with Bitterblossom/Contamination. At the very least, if cash is a concern, just get Phyrexian Arena. It is so easy to win a game when you drop it T3 and no one has an answer for it.
Thopter Assembly or Pentavus or Triskelavus would be a huge boon for your side generals. They're artifact creature token machines and both Savra and Glissa benefit from them and they go nuts with Grave Pact. That's the angle I'd consider taking with my creatures if I were you. Try to include cards like those that make Nath's ladyfriends happy
Cuts I'd make include the following:
Night's Whisper (straight sub for Arena or Necropotence)
Arashi
Nissa Revane (she's not good without a lot of Nissa's Chosen)
Liliana's Specter (frying pan to a gunfight)
Plague Wind (Butcher of Malakir is better for your deck for less mana... besides, PW only hits one player. Also, Barter in Blood is a HOUSE in here.)
Elvish Visionary (Cantrip 1/1 isn't gonna cut it)
Elves of Deep Shadow (you don't need mana dorks that badly)
Wellwisher (How many elves to you expect to have in play with all the sac'ing going on?)
*Actually, any number of elves could go. Why not cut most of the elf theme all together and just play a token theme instead? The elf benefit just seems too marginal. You and your three generals stand to gain much more from a general token strategy than just elves. And the more that are artifact creature tokens, the better. I don't know how attached you are to elves, but consider the argument at least. The creatures Nath will make once in a while will be better off as sac fodder, right? So then it doesn't matter that they're actually elves, just that they're creatures in the first place.
I'd also play some more ramp if I could find room. Explosive Vegetation and Cultivate/Kodama's Reach are just boss.
Gaah! Where's Reassembling Skeleton and Bloodghast? Savra DEMANDS them
Slaughter would maybe be better as Ashes to Ashes. Once you buy it back, folks will be on to you. Ashes to Ashes lets you exile guys too. I like guaranteed two-fer-ones.
No Volrath's Stronghold? I'll assume you're just trying to get one
Just wanted to add Mind Slash is some sweet piece of anti-combo tech. I like it! Never even heard of it before.
Good luck with the deck. I hope it works out for you! If it were me, I'd go hard on the artifact token strategy but do what works best for you.
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thanks for that extensive analysis and the props on the flavor, SuperSonik!
I believe you're absolutely right about the card draw and tutoring. Cash is not really a concern, so I'll go and find a Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor and Phyrexian Arena. Are there any other good draws in B/G? I'm a bit iffy on Necropotence and Beseech the Queen. Mainly due to the Mana costs.
I also like the idea of a focusing on artifact tokens. Triskelavus an Pentavus sound awesome. I'm not too attached to the elf theme, they worked good for mana ramp, but I might as well go more into artifacts for that purpose now with Glissa in on the fun. I'll try that direction out. Pity, the ladies are a bit jealous of each other sometimes and Savra is rather picky as to what color creatures sacrificed are.
Concerning the specific cards: Plague Wind does muder all creatures you do not control. So I'll keep that in for the time being. But maybe Deed, and Oblivion Stone would be better after all?
I'll get rid of the smaller elves definitely.
Slaughter is actually quite good! Once you play it, it's a nice deterrent. Though it does not hit black creatures.
Nissa can go and make room for Garruk, maybe. *ponders*
Can't believe I forgot about Bloodghast!
Liliana's Specter is discard, that can be sacced and recurred, but maybe it's not needed/too weak. Would you rather go with Myojin of Night's Reach?
What do you think of, Kagemaro, First to Suffer for some recurrable mass removal?
I'd really appreciate some more input!
Ardeyn
Also DERP on Savra caring about colored creatures. Have you tried Creakwood Liege with her? Seems good...
Deed is fantastic. If you can get one, definitely consider playing it. You can't recur it with Glissa but its just so useful I don't see how one could resist. Same deal with Maelstrom Pulse.
I'd consider playing Nev's Disk instead of Plague Wind. It costs a lot less and you will always be able to recur it if Glissa is on the battlefield. It might not hurt to play with an Eldrazi Monument if you can get enough token mass...
As for the discard slot, Liliana's Specter is just too weak. It's only one card, you know? Even if you recur it a bunch of times, it's not that great. Myojin is so good with your Commander he should probably be there instead, but make sure you're playing enough lands and ramp to justify your 8-9 mana spells. I always start at 38 land and 5+ mana stones, and if I'm in green I will play at least 2-3 ramp spells. You don't want to be dead before you get to cast him!
Kagemaro is very good if you can bring him back even once. At the same time though, he's a non-bo with your mass discard spells, so watch out for that.
As for more B+G draw, Greater Good is a hell of sac outlet that will also get dig you through your library for things while filling up your GY with goodies. If you are playing 30+ creatures, Lurking Predators is nutty CA as well. It's not an autoinclude though because if you're not playing enough creatures, it'll whiff too much. I also don't see Sensei's Divining Top- any reason (besides the fact it's gotten expensive these days?
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Creakwood Liege will go in, same as the Myojin of Night's Reach.
I'm a little reluctant to add Deed and friends, as I'll be hard pressed to recover from them, it seems. Maybe if I reduce the creature count further. Or add Eldrazi Monument, which sounds good.
I should probably add Butcher of Malakir as another Grave Pact/Savra effect, that can also beat on people.
Top isn't in there because it hardly is good enough with too few shuffle effects.
Lurking Predators is a nice idea, especially with Volrath's Stronghold to go with it.
That's so many good things, it's hard to tell what direction to take. I'll have to play this baby some more.
Keep the ideas coming! I'd be really glad to see some off-track gems.
Ardeyn
Still haven't gotten every card I'd like to be in there, but it's getting stronger and stronger.
Memory Jar is just beautiful. Had a game the other day, where it drew a fresh hand to play some stuff, netted 14(!) elves, filled my graveyard with some nice recursion targets and was recurrable itself with Glissa. Ties the deck together nicely.
Gaea's Cradle and Mana Reflection is nuts, though even more important was the Contamination lock against the Arcanis player.
Debating over taking out Plague Wind for Butcher of Malakir or Massacer Wurm and looking forward to Sheoldred. Do you think Mass removal is required in a deck such as this?
Ardeyn
Shortly after the game started I regretted having taken out Plague Wind, which had been - as I realized - my only way of killing Sigarda.
Nath is actually my only deck without mass creature wipes. They have never been necessary due to the abundance of grave pact effects and repeatable spot removal in the list. Also I hate having to wipe my own board; especially Pernicious Deed is a terrible hit against me.
Now I'm contemplating solutions to the "angel problem" - similar to what's going on in the how to beat Sigarda thread in the main EDH forum.
I actually think, Arashi, the Sky Asunder or Silklash Spider would be decent ways to handle flying onslaughts in general.
Yesterday's game was won by the Brion player, who had quite a number of boardwipes and - surprise, surprise - a number of flying beatsticks to carry home the win.
What would you guys do? Any advice on the "angel dilemma"?
Any suggestions to the list above?
It's still not full on stax, but so far I like how it can still do big stuff, while denying opponents a lot of their comfortable action range.
I'd be glad to get some advice, how to further improve the deck.
Ardeyn