Doubling Cube has not done anything for me. I know it is really good in most mana hungry decks but this deck has increasingly been needing more spot removal. Plus Candelabra of Tawnos does this gob a bit better. It does need another card for it to work nicely but it works with other lands too.
Umbral Mantel is just the most dead card ever. It only combos with Magus as an infinite mana combo. I can get infinite mana in a much easier fashion.
Go for the Throat just seems like a card that is too good to pass up.
Same goes for Devour in Shadow. I like unrestricted, cheap instant speed removal. Makes me happy in ways I can't mention here.
I agree with you on doubling cube. You need 7 mana before it even does anything at all. I took it out a long time ago.
Yeah and once I have enough mana it becomes irrelevant. I have my foils on the way. The only pricy one is go for the throat. I am sure that it is a keeper though.
Doubling Cube is the worst mana doubler for sure but I've never found myself wanting to cut it. By itself it is very poor but paired with any of the other doublers it can do its thing just fine. Basically the more doublers the better for this deck because they all make each other better. Bubbling Muck is noticeably absent as well. Go for the Throat seems like a pretty solid inclusion, I'll probably copy you on that one.
The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void but always yields to purifying light.
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
@Donald- For doubling cube info read aver6080. As for go for the throat: I have been waiting for a terminate type card(unrestricted kill) without life loss for a while. This seems to be pretty solid. Go for it. I just ordered mine. If you get some games in with it let me know how it plays out. (I prefer real life playing for testing over online.). Also thanks for all of your input throughout this thread. Very nice.
@aver6080- Lightning Greaves was cut a long long time ago. With my deck the way it is Lightning Greaves is just sub-par to any other card. I used to have it in. Then I realized how much I really didn't need it.
As for your Doubling Cube question. I find that I have enough mana doubler to make it fine. Mainly I aim to get to 11 mana or infinity. I mean doubling cube helps a little. The games I need doubling cube are the games that I am already losing. It doesn't really help much either because everyone uses removal on it at that point like it has a magnetic pull on it. It just hasn't been very impressive. I figured I need more spot removal. I am slowly but surely coming around to having more spot removal in my deck.
@Donald- For doubling cube info read aver6080. As for go for the throat: I have been waiting for a terminate type card(unrestricted kill) without life loss for a while. This seems to be pretty solid. Go for it. I just ordered mine. If you get some games in with it let me know how it plays out. (I prefer real life playing for testing over online.). Also thanks for all of your input throughout this thread. Very nice.
No problem. It's a lot easier to post on your thread than to constantly keep mine up to date.:D
EDIT: And since you are removing Umbral Mantle are you still going to keep the Magus? I found him to be very slow and fragile.
I do feel that I should take out Magus of the Coffers though. I just feel that sometimes, when he sticks, he is too good. I mean There are cards in here that I am not very fond of at all.
Here are a list of cards I wish I could take out.
-Nev Disk- I hate that this card comes into play tapped. If I could have more ways to destroy enchantments I would remove it so fast.
-Infernal Darkness- I want a better mana screwer. Maybe that is too much to ask.
I do feel that I should take out Magus of the Coffers though. I just feel that sometimes, when he sticks, he is too good. I mean There are cards in here that I am not very fond of at all.
Here are a list of cards I wish I could take out.
-Nev Disk- I hate that this card comes into play tapped. If I could have more ways to destroy enchantments I would remove it so fast.
-Infernal Darkness- I want a better mana screwer. Maybe that is too much to ask.
I personally hate Nev's Disk with a burning fiery passion but our enchantment sweepers are limited so I'm willing to keep running this crappy one until we get something better. But Infernal Darkness? It practically Plague Winds your opponents lands for 4 mana. It's utterly ridiculous unless your opponents are filling their decks with mana rocks or are running monoblack.
I personally hate Nev's Disk with a burning fiery passion but our enchantment sweepers are limited so I'm willing to keep running this crappy one until we get something better. But Infernal Darkness? It practically Plague Winds your opponents lands for 4 mana. It's utterly ridiculous unless your opponents are filling their decks with mana rocks or are running monoblack.
Infernal darkness is not bad. I just want it better. It is all ready good. I just want it without the cumulative upkeep. Lol. I also want it to be a foil-able card.
Now this is a legitimate reason.;) Have you thought about posting pictures in the OP? Sadly my deck is almost fully unpimped as I need to apply my Magic budget to updating my cube, making new decks and playing on MTGO.:frown:
Now this is a legitimate reason.;) Have you thought about posting pictures in the OP? Sadly my deck is almost fully unpimped as I need to apply my Magic budget to updating my cube, making new decks and playing on MTGO.:frown:
Well I do pimp the cards that can't be foil but I still feel dirty for playing a proxy even though I have the cards really. Also the whole deck if pimped now. Due to me getting top 8 at game day. I live in NJ so only 12 people showed up. I played an event deck lol.
It is true that it is rather useless without Umbral Mantel. It always gets killed. I think Bitterblossom will help me in the early game more with chump blockers and just do more for me all around. I amy just be getting excited because they have a very nice judge promo for it.
This will sound crazy but i have been playing a Mono Black deck (competitive) and have found that Phage the Untouchable works a treat with lightning greaves as an alternative win condition. Yes its not the best win condition ever, but its once card that can win you the game in a pinch.
Not saying they all are must have cards, but these have worked well for me in my deck in the past and may deserve some thought. One card that has really been working well for me is Moonlight Bargain instant speed card draw in black should not be underestimated! I personally run Xiahou as my general but the strategy is almost the same as the deck you posted with 90% card similarity. I try and build my deck like a tool box and use Xiahou to bounce back tutors from the graveyard to get what i need. However having maga as your general means you have a much better chance to just blow out early and win, tough trade off.
Also i have taken out Necropotence as it seems to lose me just as many games as it wins. In a 1v1 situation its great but in multi-player i find its not worth the risk half the time
Not saying they all are must have cards, but these have worked well for me in my deck in the past and may deserve some thought. One card that has really been working well for me is Moonlight Bargain instant speed card draw in black should not be underestimated! I personally run Xiahou as my general but the strategy is almost the same as the deck you posted with 90% card similarity. I try and build my deck like a tool box and use Xiahou to bounce back tutors from the graveyard to get what i need. However having maga as your general means you have a much better chance to just blow out early and win, tough trade off.
Also i have taken out Necropotence as it seems to lose me just as many games as it wins. In a 1v1 situation its great but in multi-player i find its not worth the risk half the time
Oh if only I had $130 To drop on Xiahou. I really hope he is in FTV: Legends. I plan on trying out Mind Twist very soon. I recently traded for it. And many a times I have considered Moonlight bargain.
The lands you suggested actually at one time all used to be in the deck when it was first made. They slowly got replaced though due to not being nearly as effective as a Swamp.
I may try out the Moonlight Bargain. I really have had my eye on that. The other cards I really have tried out if I an obtain them and I just didn't like them.
I can understand that, but i find that anyone who plays against this deck enough times knows the weakness. That being the inherent reliability on cabal coffers, of all those lands Vesuva is just amazing at making cabal that much more difficult to get rid of. I know you have crucible of worlds and the land to get it back, but i cant stress enough how good Vesuva is.
Also lake of the dead can get you a turn 2 win in 1v1, turn 4 in multiplayer.
I can understand that, but i find that anyone who plays against this deck enough times knows the weakness. That being the inherent reliability on cabal coffers, of all those lands Vesuva is just amazing at making cabal that much more difficult to get rid of. I know you have crucible of worlds and the land to get it back, but i cant stress enough how good Vesuva is.
Also lake of the dead can get you a turn 2 win in 1v1, turn 4 in multiplayer.
Actually to be perfectly honest the deck don't rely on coffers. It is nice to draw it. I never tutor it unless I already have deserted temple and rings out with 6 other swamps and that is only to get infinite mana. But I do see your point. I did have it in and I always would just copy a snow-covered swamp. The times it would copy a coffers it was awesome. No argument here. Just personally I have tried it and I didn't like it. Oh and please do not think I am ignoring your advice. I value any and all advice. I just have tried it and didn't care for it personally.
This may seem odd. I have found this card hurts me more often then it helps. It doesn't help me win the game. It helps me piss people off. Yes Geth makes me a target. I do not doubt its power in the least bit. Titan is amazing. Just for political reasons I decided to try not playing it. I may put it back in later. Also this slightly lowers my curve. Not much but a little. My next goal is to get a nether void. I will be removing wound reflection for it. Tell me your thoughts.
I agree on not aggressively tutoring up Cabal Coffers, I find I usually go for Thawing Glaciers early in the game and use Coffers as more of a finishing card as well. Cutting Sundering Titan is making your deck weaker but I think it is always very important to play to your metagame and some groups despise the card so I understand the cut. Nether Void is probably amazing, I've been searching for one myself, but I don't know if Wound Reflection is the right cut. It seems to deter attacks fairly well by encouraging your opponents to attack each other to benefit from the double damage and of course makes all your damaging spells absurd. Let us know how Geth works out for you.
I agree on not aggressively tutoring up Cabal Coffers, I find I usually go for Thawing Glaciers early in the game and use Coffers as more of a finishing card as well. Cutting Sundering Titan is making your deck weaker but I think it is always very important to play to your metagame and some groups despise the card so I understand the cut. Nether Void is probably amazing, I've been searching for one myself, but I don't know if Wound Reflection is the right cut. It seems to deter attacks fairly well by encouraging your opponents to attack each other to benefit from the double damage and of course makes all your damaging spells absurd. Let us know how Geth works out for you.
What would you suggest I cut for Nether void? I do plan on aggressively trading for it so I should have it rather soon.
Used to play with Nether Void, it juts is not worth it imo. Maybe i used it wrong, but as much as it slows your opponents down it draws so much hate i found it was never worthwhile.
In saying that is a great 1v1 card if that is what you are planning on using it for.
Used to play with Nether Void, it juts is not worth it imo. Maybe i used it wrong, but as much as it slows your opponents down it draws so much hate i found it was never worthwhile.
In saying that is a great 1v1 card if that is what you are planning on using it for.
I've run monoBlack EDH online on cockatrice and I find the above to true. It draws all the hate on the board your way until it eats a disenchant. I used to run it but found it not worth the trouble.
I can't really comment on how much hate Nether Void draws since I haven't tested it but I imagine it's a bit playgroup dependent. Randoms on Cockatrice are probably more likely to hate on mana denial than my regular playgroup for example. I have been running Wayfarer's Bauble for the past several months and that card is just fantastic. The deck gets so much value out of Swamps that it ends up being an Explosive Vegetation or better by the mid/late game and early Swamp ramp is also very helpful in getting you to that point.
- Doubling Cube
- Umbral Mantel
+ Go for the Throat
+ Devour in Shadow
Reasoning:
Doubling Cube has not done anything for me. I know it is really good in most mana hungry decks but this deck has increasingly been needing more spot removal. Plus Candelabra of Tawnos does this gob a bit better. It does need another card for it to work nicely but it works with other lands too.
Umbral Mantel is just the most dead card ever. It only combos with Magus as an infinite mana combo. I can get infinite mana in a much easier fashion.
Go for the Throat just seems like a card that is too good to pass up.
Same goes for Devour in Shadow. I like unrestricted, cheap instant speed removal. Makes me happy in ways I can't mention here.
Mono-Black Oona, Queen of the Fae
Athreos, God of Passage
Mono-Black Oona, Queen of the Fae
Athreos, God of Passage
2) I think Lightning greaves with Maga is probably really good.
3) how much do you like doubling cube? Just curious.
This is a really awesome deck that makes me want to take a look into mono-black!
(any help with my momir deck maybe? http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6376910#post6376910
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
@aver6080- Lightning Greaves was cut a long long time ago. With my deck the way it is Lightning Greaves is just sub-par to any other card. I used to have it in. Then I realized how much I really didn't need it.
As for your Doubling Cube question. I find that I have enough mana doubler to make it fine. Mainly I aim to get to 11 mana or infinity. I mean doubling cube helps a little. The games I need doubling cube are the games that I am already losing. It doesn't really help much either because everyone uses removal on it at that point like it has a magnetic pull on it. It just hasn't been very impressive. I figured I need more spot removal. I am slowly but surely coming around to having more spot removal in my deck.
Mono-Black Oona, Queen of the Fae
Athreos, God of Passage
No problem. It's a lot easier to post on your thread than to constantly keep mine up to date.:D
EDIT: And since you are removing Umbral Mantle are you still going to keep the Magus? I found him to be very slow and fragile.
-Devour in shadow
-Snow-Covered Swamp
+Doom Blade
+Bojuka Bog
I do feel that I should take out Magus of the Coffers though. I just feel that sometimes, when he sticks, he is too good. I mean There are cards in here that I am not very fond of at all.
Here are a list of cards I wish I could take out.
-Nev Disk- I hate that this card comes into play tapped. If I could have more ways to destroy enchantments I would remove it so fast.
-Infernal Darkness- I want a better mana screwer. Maybe that is too much to ask.
Mono-Black Oona, Queen of the Fae
Athreos, God of Passage
I personally hate Nev's Disk with a burning fiery passion but our enchantment sweepers are limited so I'm willing to keep running this crappy one until we get something better. But Infernal Darkness? It practically Plague Winds your opponents lands for 4 mana. It's utterly ridiculous unless your opponents are filling their decks with mana rocks or are running monoblack.
Infernal darkness is not bad. I just want it better. It is all ready good. I just want it without the cumulative upkeep. Lol. I also want it to be a foil-able card.
Mono-Black Oona, Queen of the Fae
Athreos, God of Passage
Now this is a legitimate reason.;) Have you thought about posting pictures in the OP? Sadly my deck is almost fully unpimped as I need to apply my Magic budget to updating my cube, making new decks and playing on MTGO.:frown:
Well I do pimp the cards that can't be foil but I still feel dirty for playing a proxy even though I have the cards really. Also the whole deck if pimped now. Due to me getting top 8 at game day. I live in NJ so only 12 people showed up. I played an event deck lol.
Mono-Black Oona, Queen of the Fae
Athreos, God of Passage
- Magus of the Coffers
+ Bitterblossom
It is true that it is rather useless without Umbral Mantel. It always gets killed. I think Bitterblossom will help me in the early game more with chump blockers and just do more for me all around. I amy just be getting excited because they have a very nice judge promo for it.
Mono-Black Oona, Queen of the Fae
Athreos, God of Passage
Not saying they all are must have cards, but these have worked well for me in my deck in the past and may deserve some thought. One card that has really been working well for me is Moonlight Bargain instant speed card draw in black should not be underestimated! I personally run Xiahou as my general but the strategy is almost the same as the deck you posted with 90% card similarity. I try and build my deck like a tool box and use Xiahou to bounce back tutors from the graveyard to get what i need. However having maga as your general means you have a much better chance to just blow out early and win, tough trade off.
Also i have taken out Necropotence as it seems to lose me just as many games as it wins. In a 1v1 situation its great but in multi-player i find its not worth the risk half the time
Oh if only I had $130 To drop on Xiahou. I really hope he is in FTV: Legends. I plan on trying out Mind Twist very soon. I recently traded for it. And many a times I have considered Moonlight bargain.
The lands you suggested actually at one time all used to be in the deck when it was first made. They slowly got replaced though due to not being nearly as effective as a Swamp.
I may try out the Moonlight Bargain. I really have had my eye on that. The other cards I really have tried out if I an obtain them and I just didn't like them.
@ Nathanr310: I made them.
Mono-Black Oona, Queen of the Fae
Athreos, God of Passage
Also lake of the dead can get you a turn 2 win in 1v1, turn 4 in multiplayer.
Actually to be perfectly honest the deck don't rely on coffers. It is nice to draw it. I never tutor it unless I already have deserted temple and rings out with 6 other swamps and that is only to get infinite mana. But I do see your point. I did have it in and I always would just copy a snow-covered swamp. The times it would copy a coffers it was awesome. No argument here. Just personally I have tried it and I didn't like it. Oh and please do not think I am ignoring your advice. I value any and all advice. I just have tried it and didn't care for it personally.
Oh and I made a change recently
- Sundering Titan
+ Geth, Lord of the Vault
This may seem odd. I have found this card hurts me more often then it helps. It doesn't help me win the game. It helps me piss people off. Yes Geth makes me a target. I do not doubt its power in the least bit. Titan is amazing. Just for political reasons I decided to try not playing it. I may put it back in later. Also this slightly lowers my curve. Not much but a little. My next goal is to get a nether void. I will be removing wound reflection for it. Tell me your thoughts.
Mono-Black Oona, Queen of the Fae
Athreos, God of Passage
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
What would you suggest I cut for Nether void? I do plan on aggressively trading for it so I should have it rather soon.
Mono-Black Oona, Queen of the Fae
Athreos, God of Passage
In saying that is a great 1v1 card if that is what you are planning on using it for.
I've run monoBlack EDH online on cockatrice and I find the above to true. It draws all the hate on the board your way until it eats a disenchant. I used to run it but found it not worth the trouble.