As for being focused first? It will happen. Oona happens to be a VERY fast combo deck and relies a lot on that speed.
I'd 100% run Palinchron+Image if I was playing Mono-U Oona (something I've been mentally toying around with). Image by itself is good enough for a deck slot though, I've been debating on pruning some of my cheap cantrip dig cards for more situational utility.
Why do you need to be mono U to run Palinchron though? I feel like it's equally as effective even if you're running blue black. The only real problem I've had with it is that I need to wait until getting 7 lands, and since I run a lower land count then it's sometimes much harder to get. Usually if I see it in my opening hand or if I get it early in the game then it's pretty much a dead card.
Speaking of lands I often find myself running into mana issues, or not accelerating fast enough to be able to combo. The rocks I run are the standard: talisman, signet, fellwar stone, mind stone, coalition relic, mana crypt, mana vault, sol ring, monoliths. I notice that you run a lot more mana rocks (and fewer lands). How's that working out for you in terms of mana base?
What are your thoughts on Personal Tutor, Grim Tutor, or any of the other black tutors like Cruel Tutor, Insidious Dreams? I'm not a big fan of Tainted Pact because it's kind of like an all or nothing strategy.
Trickbind has been a useful "counter" for me in many instances, have you ever considered it?
Bribary - this is a typo in your decklist, I felt the need to point out for some reason.
Praetor's Grasp I am actually sort of surprised to see it in a combo deck. What do you usually find yourself using it on? I just assumed you would rather run more tutors for your own things than for opponents but I suppose if their decks sort of overlap with your in some ways its not bad at all. I am still curious as to what you generally pick though.
No Boseiju, Who Shelters All? It seems like it would be a good back to your Ad Nauseam but it depends on how much you rely on that. I see a lot of other combos as well but some of them still seem like they get set up off of the Nauseam.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Bribary - this is a typo in your decklist, I felt the need to point out for some reason.
Praetor's Grasp I am actually sort of surprised to see it in a combo deck. What do you usually find yourself using it on? I just assumed you would rather run more tutors for your own things than for opponents but I suppose if their decks sort of overlap with your in some ways its not bad at all. I am still curious as to what you generally pick though.
No Boseiju, Who Shelters All? It seems like it would be a good back to your Ad Nauseam but it depends on how much you rely on that. I see a lot of other combos as well but some of them still seem like they get set up off of the Nauseam.
Fixed. Was correct everywhere else.
Grasp is actually amazing. It's basically a tutor or boardwipe whenever I want. Usually I'll pick Vamp or Demo tutor.
Grasp is actually amazing. It's basically a tutor or boardwipe whenever I want. Usually I'll pick Vamp or Demo tutor.
Seems good, I was just curious if you used the grasp in a different means. Would it be at all more productive to just use a Diabolic Tutor and spend less mana on it or do you enjoy burning off your opponents tutor? Its a fun card for sure I was just trying to be thought provoking more than anything.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Seems good, I was just curious if you used the grasp in a different means. Would it be at all more productive to just use a Diabolic Tutor and spend less mana on it or do you enjoy burning off your opponents tutor? Its a fun card for sure I was just trying to be thought provoking more than anything.
Oh it's one of my favorite cards. It actually gets stronger the better your opponents decks are. I've used it to steal anything from mana rocks to spot removal to Sphinx's. It's just awesome.
Oh it's one of my favorite cards. It actually gets stronger the better your opponents decks are. I've used it to steal anything from mana rocks to spot removal to Sphinx's. It's just awesome.
Have you ever played with it?
Yes, its enjoyable for sure. I like it in decks where there is one specific card I ALWAYS want so I will run it as a chance to get a second copy. I like it most in decks that thrive off of basic things like Skullclamp and such where I can probably get a second one.
I used it in a BW deck for a while to get access to Birthing Pods as well. I agree that its fun, I just thought it a little odd for a combo oriented deck but its still solid.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas: With so many artifacts, this card is +1 card per turn. Its -1 ability is also relevant in many ways to this deck: make your own 5/5 creatures (and activate Proteus Staff); make your opponents' artifacts 5/5 creatures and remove them; Sensei's Divining Top for repeatable Impulses etc.
Scroll Rack: I am not sure how you missed this one.
Thirst for Knowledge: I think that this card is a staple for artifact heavy decks.
Fact or Fiction: This is quick dig and card advantage at instant speed.
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas: With so many artifacts, this card is +1 card per turn. Its -1 ability is also relevant in many ways to this deck: make your own 5/5 creatures (and activate Proteus Staff); make your opponents' artifacts 5/5 creatures and remove them; Sensei's Divining Top for repeatable Impulses etc.
Scroll Rack: I am not sure how you missed this one.
Thirst for Knowledge: I think that this card is a staple for artifact heavy decks.
Fact or Fiction: This is quick dig and card advantage at instant speed.
Ashes to Ashes: This deck runs very little removal and what little it does must be both instant and cheap. While I agree Ashes is a great EDH staple it doesn't work in the deck.
Proteus Staff: Serves no real purpose in this deck. It's slow (sorcery speed only) expensive removal. If I wanted to get rid of a creature badly I'd run other spells.
I also do not run enough creatures in the deck to try and Polymorph my fae tokens and if I did the trick would be far too inefficient.
Karn Liberated: If an Oona deck is paying 7 mana for anything it is to win the game, not for removal.
Jace, The Mind Sculptor: I would try and run this guy if I owned one. Sadly that is not the reality I live in.
Merchant Scroll: Now this is a card. I've had this deck for years and still have not tested everything I want to. If I played Mono-U Oona I would 100% run Scroll but honestly I'd rather just get myself a Personal Tutor at this point.
Once you have infinite coloress mana, the first three are used to help generate the colored mana you need to combo off mana with Oona as soon as you resolve her.
Chain of vapor is an Vintage staple of the past that works well with the combo off theme going on here in this deck.
That really didn't explain anything. I mean, why is it better than Echoing Truth, Wipe Away, etc... Isn't the copy-effect right back to your face annoying? Is it so important that it costs U instead of 1U?
Cost is important as this deck is incredibly mana/color heavy. In addition when I target my own cheaper rocks to reuse them I will sac my unneeded land to bounce more to generate more mana.
So yes, cost is important but so is the repeatable self effect.
As for the rituals, Oona is an "All-In" combo deck. While they are not good in most EDH decks, being able to generate temporary bursts of mana helps us win on earlier turns then otherwise possible.
Once you have infinite coloress mana, the first three are used to help generate the colored mana you need to combo off mana with Oona as soon as you resolve her.
Chain of vapor is an Vintage staple of the past that works well with the combo off theme going on here in this deck.
CoV functions as a huge mama ritual
That generates a massive storm count for things like minds desire and tendrils
There are certainly some improvements to be made, but the deck plays out very nice as it is. E.g. Diabolic tutor needs to go for Tainted Pact with the lands being only singles also.
Compared to the other Oona decks in this and other threads I think this is the most committed combo deck I have seen. It does also not have any plan B, and I will probably have a harder time next time we meet.
Hi there Mads. The most interesting thing I notice is your counter suite. I'm assuming there's no Drain available. May I ask why you have all the X counters? I'd highly suggest replacing some of the weaker counters with stronger options like Remand and Hinder. Being able to completely shut down a general based deck is huge.
The other big suggestion I have is finding a spot for Tezzeret the Seeker. There are very few blue decks that wouldn't be improved by him and he is almost essential here. He is a tinker that does more.
I've also been cutting the cantrips (besides brainstorm) from my deck as they don't really help speed the deck up. Most games attempt to be Tutor -> AN -> Win. Cantrips are just slots that could be tutors/accel/disruption.
Hi there Mads. The most interesting thing I notice is your counter suite. I'm assuming there's no Drain available. May I ask why you have all the X counters? I'd highly suggest replacing some of the weaker counters with stronger options like Remand and Hinder. Being able to completely shut down a general based deck is huge.
I have no Mana Drain, but if/when I get one there will definetly be a spot for it in this deck. Remand was a matter of me having spend way to much money already but it will most likely be included next time I buy cards.
There are two main reasons for choosing the more conditional counters over say hinder. One is the CC, XU againt 1UU means quite a bit when using Ad Nauseam. I have tried hard to get the average CC as low as possible.
Another reason is the amount of voltron commanders in my meta, which comes down in turn 3. If I start with Hinder and go last I will not be able to counter at turn three unless I use some fast mana, which I would much rather save for later. Two mana and a XU counter spell works great in turn 3.
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The other big suggestion I have is finding a spot for Tezzeret the Seeker. There are very few blue decks that wouldn't be improved by him and he is almost essential here. He is a tinker that does more.
I had him in the deck but the 5 CC really hurt and he requires me to tap out at a point in the game where I either need to bounce/counter to stall until I'm ready to combo out or I need the 5 mana to cast Ad Nausem at the end of turn of my opponent(s). I also have no way of protecting him so he would most likely only be used once. If I found a combo piece that would give my opponents each a turn to get rid of it.
I am much more happy with having Necrologia as a 5 CC card as paying 10-15 lives gives a fair chance to combo the turn after.
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I've also been cutting the cantrips (besides brainstorm) from my deck as they don't really help speed the deck up. Most games attempt to be Tutor -> AN -> Win. Cantrips are just slots that could be tutors/accel/disruption.
Ok, I found myself to be quite happy everytime I startet with impulse or any other cantrip. They add consistency in my opinion, like in ANT or TES.
What is the average CC of your deck? Don't you sometimes hit all your high CC cards and fizzle when using Ad nausem?
How many people do you play? The difference between 3 and 4+ is quite big
I don't think I have ever fizzled on AN, I begin to think it's not possible if you start at a high enough life total. I also deal with many decks that run quick aggro or burn which actually hurts this deck as much if not more than the blue decks due to crippling my AN/Necro plays.
Tezz should win you the game on cast, if he lives longer you will win. He is worth 5 mana every time.
The 3 mana Hinder is definitely worth it. Unless you're trying to get your entire deck in your hand with AN your CMC is less important. We're not exactly playing that stupid Maralen deck that ONLY cares about AN. It's simply an amazing draw spell that happens to find everything we need. If we were going for the storm route I'd agree with you more on the CMC issues.
I do think you need Mind Twist. It does what few other cards can. The other pinpoint discard cards are also excellent and I wish I had room for them.
I don't think I have ever fizzled on AN, I begin to think it's not possible if you start at a high enough life total. I also deal with many decks that run quick aggro or burn which actually hurts this deck as much if not more than the blue decks due to crippling my AN/Necro plays.
Well, the two games I lost was because I was down to around 20 lives and not able to find combo pieces without Ad Nausem. Two of the wins was from Ad Nausem (Turn 5 and 6), the others I assembled the pieces by other means (necrologia and tutors). But given the chance I would always tutor for Ad Nausem early games with the chance to draw at say 30 lives.
Tezz should win you the game on cast, if he lives longer you will win. He is worth 5 mana every time.
But what is he more than a 5 mana artifact tutor? I guess fabricate is the same given you have to cast the artifact afterwards... Maybe I will test him out again
The 3 mana Hinder is definitely worth it. Unless you're trying to get your entire deck in your hand with AN your CMC is less important. We're not exactly playing that stupid Maralen deck that ONLY cares about AN. It's simply an amazing draw spell that happens to find everything we need. If we were going for the storm route I'd agree with you more on the CMC issues.
One point about the counters are also the turn you combo out it's almost always a question about enough blue mana, and UU eats one more than 1U, while doing the same on the combo turn, say memory lapse e.g. I might add Hinder and the other tuck spell for next time as most decks will be a little slower if they pack anti combo cards.
I do think you need Mind Twist. It does what few other cards can. The other pinpoint discard cards are also excellent and I wish I had room for them.
Well, the two games I lost was because I was down to around 20 lives and not able to find combo pieces without Ad Nausem. Two of the wins was from Ad Nausem (Turn 5 and 6), the others I assembled the pieces by other means (necrologia and tutors). But given the chance I would always tutor for Ad Nausem early games with the chance to draw at say 30 lives.
But what is he more than a 5 mana artifact tutor? I guess fabricate is the same given you have to cast the artifact afterwards... Maybe I will test him out again
One point about the counters are also the turn you combo out it's almost always a question about enough blue mana, and UU eats one more than 1U, while doing the same on the combo turn, say memory lapse e.g. I might add Hinder and the other tuck spell for next time as most decks will be a little slower if they pack anti combo cards.
You're completely right about Fabricate. Tezz is 2 more mana than it, but it puts the card into play. I've also debated Reshape to be a 3rd "tinker" along with Tezz and Transmute Artifact but eh....we have black for better cards.
Hinder is slow and expensive I can't argue with that. But from the discussions I've had with many Oona players here and on TheSource Hinder is near uncuttable. Few other cards can almost turn an opponents deck off. The color requirements being an issue shouldn't come up terribly often, we already run tons of UU cards.
The deck is definitely heavily dependent on AN (to an uncomfortable point) but hell, that's the price we pay.
You're completely right about Fabricate. Tezz is 2 more mana than it, but it puts the card into play. I've also debated Reshape to be a 3rd "tinker" along with Tezz and Transmute Artifact but eh....we have black for better cards.
I'm still not sure exactly how you use him. Do you cast him on the combo turn as just an artifact tutor or do you cast him before (if the board allows it) to find some mana accelleration and then find combo piece the turn after? I guess I will find out by playing him and see what feels right.
Hinder is slow and expensive I can't argue with that. But from the discussions I've had with many Oona players here and on TheSource Hinder is near uncuttable. Few other cards can almost turn an opponents deck off. The color requirements being an issue shouldn't come up terribly often, we already run tons of UU cards.
Well I guess with all the other counterspells in the deck there should be a chance to have a cheaper one ready during combo turn. But the problem is still that hinder and Spell Crumple (which should also be included if hinder is un-cutable) will come one turn too late. If I go last the Omnath or Kaalia will most likely hit the table before I get 1UU to cast the spell. I would then need to bounce before using the counter.
I was very happy with power sink and especially Condescend as they countered said commanders. It was 2 against 1 for the whole tournamet (as it should be)
How often do you use your Damnation and Oblivion Stone? as this would be the other way to go about buying some time early on. I'm just thinking with all the artifact/enchantment removal I will be seeing next time that Oblivion Stone would need to be cracked straight away or have a high riskof being destroyed, thoughts?
How often do you use your Damnation and Oblivion Stone? as this would be the other way to go about buying some time early on. I'm just thinking with all the artifact/enchantment removal I will be seeing next time that Oblivion Stone would need to be cracked straight away or have a high riskof being destroyed, thoughts?
I don't cast them often, but when I do it saves me. But they are expensive, slow, and semi-useless much of the time. I think they are just cards that have to be accepted because when they work, they work wonders. I'd absolutely love to cut them though, probably stone first. Damnation gets cast more often.
so here's your Oona list Jivanmukta. hehe. how different does your list play from Dr. Zoidberg's? only thing that stood out to me is that you don't run those color mana converter's like Bog Initiate and Gemstone Array.
so here's your Oona list Jivanmukta. hehe. how different does your list play from Dr. Zoidberg's? only thing that stood out to me is that you don't run those color mana converter's like Bog Initiate and Gemstone Array.
Those were removed to try and lower "useless" deck slots. Generally Oona wins with just enough colored mana. Candelabra also acts as a colored mana converted in my list in addition to a secondary combo. Array or Initiate are what I ran before I got my Candle.
Those were removed to try and lower "useless" deck slots. Generally Oona wins with just enough colored mana. Candelabra also acts as a colored mana converted in my list in addition to a secondary combo. Array or Initiate are what I ran before I got my Candle.
The general gameplan is similar.
looks like i'll be doing that too while i'm saving up for my Candle as well. gonna check out Kuma's list too. gonna try and revive the Oona threads. hehe
I was writing a primer, but I wanted to do a quick scan of all the Oona lists up right now, to make sure someone didn't have something up that was doing what I was doing. Unfortunately for me, your list is extremely similar to mine, but better. It seems so fast. What turns do you tend to kill on?
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As for being focused first? It will happen. Oona happens to be a VERY fast combo deck and relies a lot on that speed.
I'd 100% run Palinchron+Image if I was playing Mono-U Oona (something I've been mentally toying around with). Image by itself is good enough for a deck slot though, I've been debating on pruning some of my cheap cantrip dig cards for more situational utility.
Speaking of lands I often find myself running into mana issues, or not accelerating fast enough to be able to combo. The rocks I run are the standard: talisman, signet, fellwar stone, mind stone, coalition relic, mana crypt, mana vault, sol ring, monoliths. I notice that you run a lot more mana rocks (and fewer lands). How's that working out for you in terms of mana base?
What are your thoughts on Personal Tutor, Grim Tutor, or any of the other black tutors like Cruel Tutor, Insidious Dreams? I'm not a big fan of Tainted Pact because it's kind of like an all or nothing strategy.
Trickbind has been a useful "counter" for me in many instances, have you ever considered it?
Praetor's Grasp I am actually sort of surprised to see it in a combo deck. What do you usually find yourself using it on? I just assumed you would rather run more tutors for your own things than for opponents but I suppose if their decks sort of overlap with your in some ways its not bad at all. I am still curious as to what you generally pick though.
No Boseiju, Who Shelters All? It seems like it would be a good back to your Ad Nauseam but it depends on how much you rely on that. I see a lot of other combos as well but some of them still seem like they get set up off of the Nauseam.
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Fixed. Was correct everywhere else.
Grasp is actually amazing. It's basically a tutor or boardwipe whenever I want. Usually I'll pick Vamp or Demo tutor.
Seems good, I was just curious if you used the grasp in a different means. Would it be at all more productive to just use a Diabolic Tutor and spend less mana on it or do you enjoy burning off your opponents tutor? Its a fun card for sure I was just trying to be thought provoking more than anything.
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Oh it's one of my favorite cards. It actually gets stronger the better your opponents decks are. I've used it to steal anything from mana rocks to spot removal to Sphinx's. It's just awesome.
Have you ever played with it?
Yes, its enjoyable for sure. I like it in decks where there is one specific card I ALWAYS want so I will run it as a chance to get a second copy. I like it most in decks that thrive off of basic things like Skullclamp and such where I can probably get a second one.
I used it in a BW deck for a while to get access to Birthing Pods as well. I agree that its fun, I just thought it a little odd for a combo oriented deck but its still solid.
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Ashes to Ashes: Exiling two non-artifact creatures, I don't understand why more people do not look at this card as a staple of the format.
Proteus Staff: On top of the ability to tuck a general, this card has amazing capabilities when paired with Oona, Queen of the Fae.
Karn Liberated: This card gives UB the ability to exile any permanent, and it can be devastating with Rings of Brighthearth.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor: Just a powerful card
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas: With so many artifacts, this card is +1 card per turn. Its -1 ability is also relevant in many ways to this deck: make your own 5/5 creatures (and activate Proteus Staff); make your opponents' artifacts 5/5 creatures and remove them; Sensei's Divining Top for repeatable Impulses etc.
Scroll Rack: I am not sure how you missed this one.
Thirst for Knowledge: I think that this card is a staple for artifact heavy decks.
Fact or Fiction: This is quick dig and card advantage at instant speed.
Merchant Scroll: This puts Lim-Dul's Vault in hand.
Ashes to Ashes: This deck runs very little removal and what little it does must be both instant and cheap. While I agree Ashes is a great EDH staple it doesn't work in the deck.
Proteus Staff: Serves no real purpose in this deck. It's slow (sorcery speed only) expensive removal. If I wanted to get rid of a creature badly I'd run other spells.
I also do not run enough creatures in the deck to try and Polymorph my fae tokens and if I did the trick would be far too inefficient.
Karn Liberated: If an Oona deck is paying 7 mana for anything it is to win the game, not for removal.
Jace, The Mind Sculptor: I would try and run this guy if I owned one. Sadly that is not the reality I live in.
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas: Has not been tested and probably won't be. He is a more expensive conditional Phyrexian Arena and I no longer run that card.
Scroll Rack, Thirst for Knowledge, Fact or Fiction: All have been in and out of the deck. They simply don't dig deep enough fast enough to make victory any easier.
Merchant Scroll: Now this is a card. I've had this deck for years and still have not tested everything I want to. If I played Mono-U Oona I would 100% run Scroll but honestly I'd rather just get myself a Personal Tutor at this point.
Chain of vapor is an Vintage staple of the past that works well with the combo off theme going on here in this deck.
Cost is important as this deck is incredibly mana/color heavy. In addition when I target my own cheaper rocks to reuse them I will sac my unneeded land to bounce more to generate more mana.
So yes, cost is important but so is the repeatable self effect.
As for the rituals, Oona is an "All-In" combo deck. While they are not good in most EDH decks, being able to generate temporary bursts of mana helps us win on earlier turns then otherwise possible.
CoV functions as a huge mama ritual
That generates a massive storm count for things like minds desire and tendrils
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
8 people attended, 2 Kaalia of the Vast, Doran, the Siege Tower, Omnath, Locus of Mana, Mayael the Anima, Merieke Ri Berit and Lavinia of the Tenth. We played pods of three and stopped the tournament when every player had played 6 games. I got 4 wins with the deck below from those 6. Losing the initial game to a game error, played necropotence, which was detained by Lavinia of the Tenth. And one round to a Kaalia of the Vast with lightning greaves and Rune-scarred demon to armageddon. In the rest of the games I was not even close to losing, if you don't mind me bragging
There are certainly some improvements to be made, but the deck plays out very nice as it is. E.g. Diabolic tutor needs to go for Tainted Pact with the lands being only singles also.
Compared to the other Oona decks in this and other threads I think this is the most committed combo deck I have seen. It does also not have any plan B, and I will probably have a harder time next time we meet.
Here we go: (The average mana cost is 1.86)
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
Lands (35):
1 Underground Sea
1 Command Tower
1 Watery Grave
1 Underground River
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Gemstone Mine
1 City of Brass
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Evolving Wilds
9 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
13 Island
Creatures (2):
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Initiates of the Ebon Hand
Bounce (5):
1 Boomerang
1 Into the Roil
1 Echoing Truth
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Chain of Vapor
Cantrip (9):
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Frantic Search
1 Impulse
1 Sleight of Hand
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Peer Through Depths
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Necrologia
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Windfall
Tutors (9):
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Fabricate
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
1 Transmute Artifact
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
Counterspells (12):
1 Force of Will
1 Counterspell
1 Memory Lapse
1 Convolute
1 Mana Leak
1 Delay
1 Negate
1 Circular Logic
1 Power Sink
1 Syncopate
1 Condescend
1 Pact of Negation
1 Grim Monolith
1 Power Artifact
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Reconstruction
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Gemstone Array
Mana (14):
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Dimir Signet
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Cabal Ritual
1 Mana Vault
1 Dark Ritual
1 Sol Ring
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Bloom
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Opal
The other big suggestion I have is finding a spot for Tezzeret the Seeker. There are very few blue decks that wouldn't be improved by him and he is almost essential here. He is a tinker that does more.
I've also been cutting the cantrips (besides brainstorm) from my deck as they don't really help speed the deck up. Most games attempt to be Tutor -> AN -> Win. Cantrips are just slots that could be tutors/accel/disruption.
I have no Mana Drain, but if/when I get one there will definetly be a spot for it in this deck. Remand was a matter of me having spend way to much money already but it will most likely be included next time I buy cards.
There are two main reasons for choosing the more conditional counters over say hinder. One is the CC, XU againt 1UU means quite a bit when using Ad Nauseam. I have tried hard to get the average CC as low as possible.
Another reason is the amount of voltron commanders in my meta, which comes down in turn 3. If I start with Hinder and go last I will not be able to counter at turn three unless I use some fast mana, which I would much rather save for later. Two mana and a XU counter spell works great in turn 3.
I had him in the deck but the 5 CC really hurt and he requires me to tap out at a point in the game where I either need to bounce/counter to stall until I'm ready to combo out or I need the 5 mana to cast Ad Nausem at the end of turn of my opponent(s). I also have no way of protecting him so he would most likely only be used once. If I found a combo piece that would give my opponents each a turn to get rid of it.
I am much more happy with having Necrologia as a 5 CC card as paying 10-15 lives gives a fair chance to combo the turn after.
Ok, I found myself to be quite happy everytime I startet with impulse or any other cantrip. They add consistency in my opinion, like in ANT or TES.
What is the average CC of your deck? Don't you sometimes hit all your high CC cards and fizzle when using Ad nausem?
How many people do you play? The difference between 3 and 4+ is quite big
For our next tournament I will have to alter the deck quite a bit. Add a few more bring back artifact cards and duress, Inquisition of Kozilek and thoughtseize to take Krosan grip *shudder*. Mystical Teachings is also a nice tutor I would like to add.
I don't think I have ever fizzled on AN, I begin to think it's not possible if you start at a high enough life total. I also deal with many decks that run quick aggro or burn which actually hurts this deck as much if not more than the blue decks due to crippling my AN/Necro plays.
Tezz should win you the game on cast, if he lives longer you will win. He is worth 5 mana every time.
The 3 mana Hinder is definitely worth it. Unless you're trying to get your entire deck in your hand with AN your CMC is less important. We're not exactly playing that stupid Maralen deck that ONLY cares about AN. It's simply an amazing draw spell that happens to find everything we need. If we were going for the storm route I'd agree with you more on the CMC issues.
I do think you need Mind Twist. It does what few other cards can. The other pinpoint discard cards are also excellent and I wish I had room for them.
Well, the two games I lost was because I was down to around 20 lives and not able to find combo pieces without Ad Nausem. Two of the wins was from Ad Nausem (Turn 5 and 6), the others I assembled the pieces by other means (necrologia and tutors). But given the chance I would always tutor for Ad Nausem early games with the chance to draw at say 30 lives.
But what is he more than a 5 mana artifact tutor? I guess fabricate is the same given you have to cast the artifact afterwards... Maybe I will test him out again
One point about the counters are also the turn you combo out it's almost always a question about enough blue mana, and UU eats one more than 1U, while doing the same on the combo turn, say memory lapse e.g. I might add Hinder and the other tuck spell for next time as most decks will be a little slower if they pack anti combo cards.
Yes, Mind twist should also find a spot
You're completely right about Fabricate. Tezz is 2 more mana than it, but it puts the card into play. I've also debated Reshape to be a 3rd "tinker" along with Tezz and Transmute Artifact but eh....we have black for better cards.
Hinder is slow and expensive I can't argue with that. But from the discussions I've had with many Oona players here and on TheSource Hinder is near uncuttable. Few other cards can almost turn an opponents deck off. The color requirements being an issue shouldn't come up terribly often, we already run tons of UU cards.
The deck is definitely heavily dependent on AN (to an uncomfortable point) but hell, that's the price we pay.
I'm still not sure exactly how you use him. Do you cast him on the combo turn as just an artifact tutor or do you cast him before (if the board allows it) to find some mana accelleration and then find combo piece the turn after? I guess I will find out by playing him and see what feels right.
Well I guess with all the other counterspells in the deck there should be a chance to have a cheaper one ready during combo turn. But the problem is still that hinder and Spell Crumple (which should also be included if hinder is un-cutable) will come one turn too late. If I go last the Omnath or Kaalia will most likely hit the table before I get 1UU to cast the spell. I would then need to bounce before using the counter.
I was very happy with power sink and especially Condescend as they countered said commanders. It was 2 against 1 for the whole tournamet (as it should be)
How often do you use your Damnation and Oblivion Stone? as this would be the other way to go about buying some time early on. I'm just thinking with all the artifact/enchantment removal I will be seeing next time that Oblivion Stone would need to be cracked straight away or have a high riskof being destroyed, thoughts?
Yep, but that's why necropotence and necrologia is in there too :-), 15 drawn cards also gives a very fair chance of comboing the next turn.
I don't cast them often, but when I do it saves me. But they are expensive, slow, and semi-useless much of the time. I think they are just cards that have to be accepted because when they work, they work wonders. I'd absolutely love to cut them though, probably stone first. Damnation gets cast more often.
Those were removed to try and lower "useless" deck slots. Generally Oona wins with just enough colored mana. Candelabra also acts as a colored mana converted in my list in addition to a secondary combo. Array or Initiate are what I ran before I got my Candle.
The general gameplan is similar.
looks like i'll be doing that too while i'm saving up for my Candle as well. gonna check out Kuma's list too. gonna try and revive the Oona threads. hehe