Solemn simulacrum is great acceleration for non green decks, but I recently took him out of my list as I found it to be too slow. I have a lot of better options to spend 4 mana on
Pretty much my stance on it. Although I have been debating the Bauble again.
Thada Adel, Acquisitor has proven to be an excellent card. Stealing Sol Rings left and right in addition to other mana accel, it has proven quite powerful in my blue meta. Have you considered it before?
The primer looks pretty sweet, by the by. Continue the excellent work.
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In love with Black since I first began playing Avatar of Woe.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
Awesome job on the primer so far and im interested to see your results with tainted pact. Looking at your lands though, it seems you play a lot of cipt that may slow the deck down but i guess thats an effect of tainted pact requiring you to play less basics. Keep up the good work!
@ Benjameen- Ive tried thada a few times with good results, when she shines she is awesome, getting an early top/ mana crypt or removing combo pieces from decks like Arcum. Having said that I think she plays better in decks that focus more on creatures and the combat step.
I think I would tend to agree with that sentiment. Late-game, she doesn't do that much. But when she comes down on T2-T3, she starts stealing ramp like a boss. I'm gonna give her another night of rigorous testing to see if she will retain her slot. And I think that I'm gonna dismantle my Dralnu to sleeve up Oona and her infinite-ness soon. All of the good Dimir cards are tied up in Dralnu at the moment and I want to give Oona a spin.
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In love with Black since I first began playing Avatar of Woe.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
I think maybe Phyrexian Metamorph or Jace, the Mind Sculptor would be good shoe-ins for the maniac. Also Il pm you my updated Oona list tomorrow, id love to get some feedback on it.
Hey jivan how's it going. I have been play testing a similar list for my buddy he's about too toss together in paper I've been play testing / building the deck for him
On mtgo so he can buy the right cards his budget alot tighter than mine but he owns alot of the expensive cards from his zur list. I just had a few card choice questions and your input. First he uses dralnu not oona by his preference but I don't think it makes a large difference. Every test game so far (7) I've won turn 4-6 a couple games I cast dralnu but never needed him. The first large difference is in the build I've been testing is the Combos. I notice you do not run mind over matter bell combo future sight Combo or minds desire tendrils combo. Though the deck has typically just used power artifact then transmute / tutor exsanguinate. The first question I have is the minds desire tendrils combo I see things like chain of vapor in your list which is one of the best storm enabling combos you can run in this list. I guess my first question should be do you ever wiff with ad naususm in that you don't win on the spot? I have yet to wiff and won a couple if games without Bering to cast it( fast future top and a necro game. I notice you run helm void Combo but it can't always kill everyone and helm is a dead card alot of points in the game how has it been and why do you like it better than storm or mind over matter or future top? I also notice you don't play windfall. Windfall has been better than memory jar and the like as it almost gaiters your gads off ad naususm and in my build lets you filter with temple bell MoM with a single card and refill to win. how have phyrexian arena dark tutelage and rhystic study been they seem too slow and clunky at cmc 3 and the deck wins so fast they rarley get value. Limduks vault is s card I love in my tooth and nail list but the card disadvantage coupled with its double color cost and damage not being good with ad naus it's been less than stellar. How has trinket Mage been you don't play future top so it seems like a blue ramp spell that pulls a goid top deck out for cmc 3 seems underwhelming. I've been running his list with a ton of islands for hightide it's been pretty good dud you ever try it? Was the consistancy if your land base better in the long run than getting more acces to blue mana with MoM frantic search etc. Gemstone array sticks out to me as out of place in an ad naususm brew how has it been seems like too much mana for ad curve and slow. When your ad naus is countered how does your deck play. I have had it happen but recurring Insight and Necro seem like best backups in my Damia recurring insight wins me every game I cast it and in this list it's even better since it goes off faster and you can dump your hand. How has beesech the queen been ur pings for 6 off as naus for a subpar tutus I'd rather run increasing ambition but the lust I tested had alot of basic islands so hard to say. Is the lack of intuition a budget issue that card has been always instant win great for piling tutor to get ad naus piling for yawgwin is sick sicker with dralnu but still that cards too good to not run. I do like how you did the snow cover non snow cover for tainted pact style points I've done that before in 3 color sharum combo ad naususm. Thanks in advance for your input my buddy apriciated it he's gonna order his missing cards soon. Mainly if the cards of your I questioned are any of them performing jncredably well and I'm missing something? Thanks Mox hope not to many typos fur you jivan but I'm on my phone at work
Wrong oona deck lol. I have 2. Other one isn't sighed for some reason.
So, do you keep both this and the Oona stax-ish deck sleeved up and play both of them? I always figured one was an abandoned deck and one was the one you actually play now.
So, do you keep both this and the Oona stax-ish deck sleeved up and play both of them? I always figured one was an abandoned deck and one was the one you actually play now.
I do. It's funny when people don't pay attention to which one is foiled and which one isn't. Doesn't make a difference because I get attacked the hardest regardless of the deck I play.
Yea if your playing ad naususm your going to get targeted first baring 5 color dredge. No input on my wall of text ? Any particular reason you like helm void over mind over matter minds desire and future top. Would love input with my limited testing before he orders cards probly doesn't matter an ad naus list should win turn after but just wondering about your card choices since its one I your cure decks
Yea if your playing ad naususm your going to get targeted first baring 5 color dredge. No input on my wall of text ? Any particular reason you like helm void over mind over matter minds desire and future top. Would love input with my limited testing before he orders cards probly doesn't matter an ad naus list should win turn after but just wondering about your card choices since its one I your cure decks
First, sorry for not responding. I didn't even see your post earlier (apparently I'm blind).
1) The main reason I picked Oona over another general is that it can act as an alternative win condition AND it opens slots that would otherwise be wasted on cards like Exsanguinate. I've found she is the best "infinite mana" general in the colors and possibly overall. Dralnu terrifies me to play because of all the potential burn my friends have. I also like having access to my win con at all times.
2) The list is not updated. I was waiting for Gatecrash to see if anything good came out (nothing did).
3) Memory Jar is coming out because it is very slow. I also want to lower my curve. I removed Windfall because I rarely cast it but I believe I'll give it another shot.
4) Gemstone Array (and the newly added Candelabra of Tawnos) are used for color fixing. The deck is INCREDIBLY color hungry and the fixing is required to go off with. The Candelabra can be searched for by Trinket Mage and both can be found with Beseech the Queen (and that is pretty much the only reason I run it, and it has always been worth it).
4) I have indeed tested High Tide. I've also used Palinchron and Phantasmal Image with a higher Island count. But I prefer either pure basics or pure singleton for this type of deck. The High Tide strategy was far more fragile and inefficient. It also required a minimum of Islands before it could go off and that was far too restrictive. Also, the pure singleton deck has allowed me to run Tainted Pact which is one of the strongest tutors imaginable.
5) Trinket Mage is wonderful. It finds Top, LED, Candelaba, Pithing Needle, Crypt, ect... I can't imagine cutting it.
6) Helm/Leyline has been out of the deck for about a month (yea yea I know. I'll update). I am running Tidespout Tyrant currently as another infinite engine. I have been very surprised with it. The only problem I have with it is it has the potential of hurting me a lot with Ad Nauseam.
7) I have never tried the MoM/Temple Bell combo in the deck. I have been trying to stick to infinite mana engines.
8) I bought an Intuition for this deck and took it out rather quickly. It just isn't the right deck for it. Maybe one day if u/b gets more ways of recurring Power Artifact.
9) I have been slowly removing my 3 mana draw enchantments. They are finally too slow for the deck. This is also why I don't run Future Sight.
10) I have not tried Increasing Ambition instead of Gemstone. I'll make that my next round of testing.
11) Lim-Dul's Vault is my bff.
Thanks for the look and I'll try to get full updates after the weekend.
Nice I really like your changes aside from intuition my buddy cannot afford a card like candles in paper :(. Thanks for the awesome reply I tried tidespout he was always great but the deck was so consistant already he seemed unnessascary. Mind over matter is one you should try think about it in this deck if you resolve it you win and all you need us maba fur it since it gets you intaos etc. what do you think about minds desire ? So far it's always auto won easy and things like remand or twincast on flip make you flip your entire deck. But again thanks fit the reply the recent changes you made seem great.
Also Myself and my friend thank you dr zoisberg and Bryant cook for his 2008 version for giving us a great starting point to build
Nice I really like your changes aside from intuition my buddy cannot afford a card like candles in paper :(. Thanks for the awesome reply I tried tidespout he was always great but the deck was so consistant already he seemed unnessascary. Mind over matter is one you should try think about it in this deck if you resolve it you win and all you need us maba fur it since it gets you intaos etc. what do you think about minds desire ? So far it's always auto won easy and things like remand or twincast on flip make you flip your entire deck. But again thanks fit the reply the recent changes you made seem great.
Also Myself and my friend thank you dr zoisberg and Bryant cook for his 2008 version for giving us a great starting point to build
I've never been a huge fan of storm in EDH. While there are times when I could get a decent storm count I just never think it's enough to kill the table. It just feels less consistent.
The greatest threat against this deck is Krosen Grip. Easily the most horrible thing to see because of how few ways out of it there are (bounce or Yawgs). I suppose that's the punishment for being interactive vs non-blue.
For my birthday I got the Candelabra and Mana Drain otherwise I never would have had them.
You would think its not but think about this you pop ad naus in my slighty differnt list you cast all rituals free mana or net mana card opening with the future top reducers if you hit power artifact or grim/ basalt with tutor you win. If you hit MoM you resolve it pitch lands for untaps tutor our bell and filter to w/e Combo and win. If you hit future top you win. If you don't hit your combo pieces what do you get ? Mana tutors and cheap control. So you use even a single tutor for minds desire pop every rock ritual etc then pop your chain if vapor or scroll rack or windfall w/e to keep storming then you cast it with like storm 12-20 if you hit Combo you win. If you hit mana and tutors / ponder brainstorm w/e you win via combo. If you hit remand or twincast or yawgwin you cast minds desire again at like storm 40 with like 50 cards left in deck max and it leads into tendrils for easy kills. I don't know it's been awesome so far. Either way the deck is awesome thanks for your list. trinket Mage seems pretty awesome here I think your tight I tried to curve him at like 35+ 0-2 drops.
Tested this deck some more yesterday lost my first game with it by misclicking grim monolith when I was trying to minds desire Combo T4. After a few test runs the only card I really felt I needed a few times was call to mind ( yawgwill milled no time to drop general and pass. Also wanted it for intuition once but I know you don't run it. How do you feel about call to mind? I was testing over like duress which us is card I really liked already but call to mind seems pretty good did you ever test it?
Edit for reference this is the list I've been testing on mtgo
I like your suggestion of trinket magr I want to work it on he plans in placing hus order tommorow so it will ship tommorrow any input on what you would cut / add would be much double edit I've got almost as many kills off recuring insight which I use in a similar way in Damia as ad nauseam you should try it 2 out of 10 games I got T3 insight into T4 win
What happens if someone drops Blood Moon or Magus of the Moon
Wait for someone to kill it or hope I have mana rocks for bounce. Like most tuned decks it trades efficiency for being easily stopped by certain things. I just roll with the punches and I'll try harder to counter it next game. Blood Moon effects have a nice habit of making other players angry and want to kill it so that's always good. Politics.
@Moxnix: I'll go over your list in more detail in a bit. Just got home.
I've been playing Oona for some time now, and in general find it quite enjoyable to play as I constantly get ganged up on and have to think about what cards to tutor for or how to react to different types of threats. My decklist is very similar to yours, but I wanted to know what you think about the following:
1. Is Palinchron + Phantasmal Image worth it? I mean phantasmal is a good card, and can be used as protection early on against aggro. My main issue is Palinchron and its 7 cmc, which kind of hurts when using Ad Nauseum. Also the combo requires 7 lands in play to go off. This deck relies on a low mana curve and sometimes I just don't wait until 7 mana.
2. Leyline + Helm: Helm seems to be a dead card most of the time by itself, and both pieces are 4 cmc which means only certain tutors can find them. I noticed that you removed this combo. However, have you found it difficult to play without a backup combo? What if power artifact/monoliths/rings gets removed?
3. How do you feel about spot removal? I find that it helps to protect against early aggro decks, and I just wish there were more damnations/o-stones. How else can Oona decks survive if ganged on early (which almost always happens as you can combo off at any moment)? However, sometimes I feel like a card that only removes one creature (and hence I get one less card in my hand) is not the most efficient use of cards.
4. Have you ever thought about using Windfall/Time Spiral? Seems like it would be a good way to refill your hand, and maybe even better than Recurring Insight?
My main issue is protecting myself when 1~2 people just focus on me early game, especially decks that can output a lot of creature based damage early on.
I just went back and saw that you did explain some of these cards, so apologies for that. However, my main questions still remain: how do you deal with being targeted first, and how do you deal with not having a backup combo?
Also I realized that the palinchron/phantasmal is sometimes a good path towards infinite mana due to artifact/enchantment removals, as palinchron is quite resilient to removal.
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Pretty much my stance on it. Although I have been debating the Bauble again.
The primer looks pretty sweet, by the by. Continue the excellent work.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
-----------------------------
Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept
@ Benjameen- Ive tried thada a few times with good results, when she shines she is awesome, getting an early top/ mana crypt or removing combo pieces from decks like Arcum. Having said that I think she plays better in decks that focus more on creatures and the combat step.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
-----------------------------
Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept
Maniac is coming out because it is far too easy to disrupt after playing with him. (couldn't give him shroud like helix pinnacle eh wizards?)
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
Done by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery signatures!
Wrong oona deck lol. I have 2. Other one isn't sighed for some reason.
On mtgo so he can buy the right cards his budget alot tighter than mine but he owns alot of the expensive cards from his zur list. I just had a few card choice questions and your input. First he uses dralnu not oona by his preference but I don't think it makes a large difference. Every test game so far (7) I've won turn 4-6 a couple games I cast dralnu but never needed him. The first large difference is in the build I've been testing is the Combos. I notice you do not run mind over matter bell combo future sight Combo or minds desire tendrils combo. Though the deck has typically just used power artifact then transmute / tutor exsanguinate. The first question I have is the minds desire tendrils combo I see things like chain of vapor in your list which is one of the best storm enabling combos you can run in this list. I guess my first question should be do you ever wiff with ad naususm in that you don't win on the spot? I have yet to wiff and won a couple if games without Bering to cast it( fast future top and a necro game. I notice you run helm void Combo but it can't always kill everyone and helm is a dead card alot of points in the game how has it been and why do you like it better than storm or mind over matter or future top? I also notice you don't play windfall. Windfall has been better than memory jar and the like as it almost gaiters your gads off ad naususm and in my build lets you filter with temple bell MoM with a single card and refill to win. how have phyrexian arena dark tutelage and rhystic study been they seem too slow and clunky at cmc 3 and the deck wins so fast they rarley get value. Limduks vault is s card I love in my tooth and nail list but the card disadvantage coupled with its double color cost and damage not being good with ad naus it's been less than stellar. How has trinket Mage been you don't play future top so it seems like a blue ramp spell that pulls a goid top deck out for cmc 3 seems underwhelming. I've been running his list with a ton of islands for hightide it's been pretty good dud you ever try it? Was the consistancy if your land base better in the long run than getting more acces to blue mana with MoM frantic search etc. Gemstone array sticks out to me as out of place in an ad naususm brew how has it been seems like too much mana for ad curve and slow. When your ad naus is countered how does your deck play. I have had it happen but recurring Insight and Necro seem like best backups in my Damia recurring insight wins me every game I cast it and in this list it's even better since it goes off faster and you can dump your hand. How has beesech the queen been ur pings for 6 off as naus for a subpar tutus I'd rather run increasing ambition but the lust I tested had alot of basic islands so hard to say. Is the lack of intuition a budget issue that card has been always instant win great for piling tutor to get ad naus piling for yawgwin is sick sicker with dralnu but still that cards too good to not run. I do like how you did the snow cover non snow cover for tainted pact style points I've done that before in 3 color sharum combo ad naususm. Thanks in advance for your input my buddy apriciated it he's gonna order his missing cards soon. Mainly if the cards of your I questioned are any of them performing jncredably well and I'm missing something? Thanks Mox hope not to many typos fur you jivan but I'm on my phone at work
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
So, do you keep both this and the Oona stax-ish deck sleeved up and play both of them? I always figured one was an abandoned deck and one was the one you actually play now.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
I do. It's funny when people don't pay attention to which one is foiled and which one isn't. Doesn't make a difference because I get attacked the hardest regardless of the deck I play.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
First, sorry for not responding. I didn't even see your post earlier (apparently I'm blind).
1) The main reason I picked Oona over another general is that it can act as an alternative win condition AND it opens slots that would otherwise be wasted on cards like Exsanguinate. I've found she is the best "infinite mana" general in the colors and possibly overall. Dralnu terrifies me to play because of all the potential burn my friends have. I also like having access to my win con at all times.
2) The list is not updated. I was waiting for Gatecrash to see if anything good came out (nothing did).
3) Memory Jar is coming out because it is very slow. I also want to lower my curve. I removed Windfall because I rarely cast it but I believe I'll give it another shot.
4) Gemstone Array (and the newly added Candelabra of Tawnos) are used for color fixing. The deck is INCREDIBLY color hungry and the fixing is required to go off with. The Candelabra can be searched for by Trinket Mage and both can be found with Beseech the Queen (and that is pretty much the only reason I run it, and it has always been worth it).
4) I have indeed tested High Tide. I've also used Palinchron and Phantasmal Image with a higher Island count. But I prefer either pure basics or pure singleton for this type of deck. The High Tide strategy was far more fragile and inefficient. It also required a minimum of Islands before it could go off and that was far too restrictive. Also, the pure singleton deck has allowed me to run Tainted Pact which is one of the strongest tutors imaginable.
5) Trinket Mage is wonderful. It finds Top, LED, Candelaba, Pithing Needle, Crypt, ect... I can't imagine cutting it.
6) Helm/Leyline has been out of the deck for about a month (yea yea I know. I'll update). I am running Tidespout Tyrant currently as another infinite engine. I have been very surprised with it. The only problem I have with it is it has the potential of hurting me a lot with Ad Nauseam.
7) I have never tried the MoM/Temple Bell combo in the deck. I have been trying to stick to infinite mana engines.
8) I bought an Intuition for this deck and took it out rather quickly. It just isn't the right deck for it. Maybe one day if u/b gets more ways of recurring Power Artifact.
9) I have been slowly removing my 3 mana draw enchantments. They are finally too slow for the deck. This is also why I don't run Future Sight.
10) I have not tried Increasing Ambition instead of Gemstone. I'll make that my next round of testing.
11) Lim-Dul's Vault is my bff.
Thanks for the look and I'll try to get full updates after the weekend.
Also Myself and my friend thank you dr zoisberg and Bryant cook for his 2008 version for giving us a great starting point to build
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
I've never been a huge fan of storm in EDH. While there are times when I could get a decent storm count I just never think it's enough to kill the table. It just feels less consistent.
The greatest threat against this deck is Krosen Grip. Easily the most horrible thing to see because of how few ways out of it there are (bounce or Yawgs). I suppose that's the punishment for being interactive vs non-blue.
For my birthday I got the Candelabra and Mana Drain otherwise I never would have had them.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Edit for reference this is the list I've been testing on mtgo
2 ad nauseam
3 dark ritual
4 Mox diamond
5 chrome Mox
6 lotus petal
7 mana crypt
8 sol ring
9 mana vault
10 grim monolith
11 cabal ritual
12 yawgmoths will
13 high tide
14 demonic tutor
15 vampiric tutor
16 mystical tutor
17 call to mind
18 ponder
19 preordain
20 brainstorm
21 impulse
22 muddle the mixture
23 counterspell
24 spell pierce
25 transmute artifact
26 diabolic tutor
27 Fact or fiction
28 intuition
29 frantic search
30 mind over matter
31 temple bell
32 exsanguinate
33 tendrils of agony
34 basalt monolith
35 twincast
36 power artifact
37 lotus bloom
38 senseis diving top
39 dimir signet
40 mystical teachings
41 pact of negation
42 force of will
43 imperial seal
44 mystic remora
45 cyclonic rift
46 talismen of dominance
47 voltaic key
48 fabricate
49 increasing ambition
50 tezzeret
51 scroll rack
52 chain of vapor
53 mana drain
54 merchant scroll
55 shred memory
56 necropotence
57 gixitan probe
58 minds desire
59 remand
60 turnabout
61 ethetium sculptor
62 future sight
63 cloud key
64 windfall
65 recurring insight
67 reliquey tower
68 command tower
69 watery grave
70 flooded strand
71 boseiju
72 toleria west
73 sunken ruins
74 poluted delta
75 flooded strand
76 mist rainforest
77 scalding tarn
78 verdant catacombs
15 islands
7 swamps
I like your suggestion of trinket magr I want to work it on he plans in placing hus order tommorow so it will ship tommorrow any input on what you would cut / add would be much double edit I've got almost as many kills off recuring insight which I use in a similar way in Damia as ad nauseam you should try it 2 out of 10 games I got T3 insight into T4 win
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Wait for someone to kill it or hope I have mana rocks for bounce. Like most tuned decks it trades efficiency for being easily stopped by certain things. I just roll with the punches and I'll try harder to counter it next game. Blood Moon effects have a nice habit of making other players angry and want to kill it so that's always good. Politics.
@Moxnix: I'll go over your list in more detail in a bit. Just got home.
1. Is Palinchron + Phantasmal Image worth it? I mean phantasmal is a good card, and can be used as protection early on against aggro. My main issue is Palinchron and its 7 cmc, which kind of hurts when using Ad Nauseum. Also the combo requires 7 lands in play to go off. This deck relies on a low mana curve and sometimes I just don't wait until 7 mana.
2. Leyline + Helm: Helm seems to be a dead card most of the time by itself, and both pieces are 4 cmc which means only certain tutors can find them. I noticed that you removed this combo. However, have you found it difficult to play without a backup combo? What if power artifact/monoliths/rings gets removed?
3. How do you feel about spot removal? I find that it helps to protect against early aggro decks, and I just wish there were more damnations/o-stones. How else can Oona decks survive if ganged on early (which almost always happens as you can combo off at any moment)? However, sometimes I feel like a card that only removes one creature (and hence I get one less card in my hand) is not the most efficient use of cards.
4. Have you ever thought about using Windfall/Time Spiral? Seems like it would be a good way to refill your hand, and maybe even better than Recurring Insight?
My main issue is protecting myself when 1~2 people just focus on me early game, especially decks that can output a lot of creature based damage early on.
Also I realized that the palinchron/phantasmal is sometimes a good path towards infinite mana due to artifact/enchantment removals, as palinchron is quite resilient to removal.