Nah, haha, I try to keep things about other topics to PMs! Thanks for obliging me on that front though!
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My modern Decks: GBRJundGBR URWJeskai NahiriURW My Legacy Deck: URBGrixis DelverURB My EDH Decks: GJarad, Golgari Lich LordB GRhys, The RedeemedW RWArchangel AvacynRW UWDragonlord OjutaiUW
What's your Oppinion on Origins and Hangarback Walker?
Hey thanks for bringing that card to my attention. I haven't noticed it until now. Looks decent - early game it's good fodder for arcum and if drawn late game it can be a wincon. Flusterstorm has been underperforming as late, I'll take that out for the walker.
I updated the list accordingly.
Edit: oh and as for origins, I like the set. My favorite artifact out of it is alhammarret's archive, although there's no place for it in this deck.
I have played the same list you have posted. One weakness that really screwed me was someone else playing a Darksteel Forge. I had no way of getting rid of it. I already had used my Cyclonic Rift and no way to get it back into my library. I think I might add a Venser Shaper Savant to help address the lack of bounce.
I have played the same list you have posted. One weakness that really screwed me was someone else playing a Darksteel Forge. I had no way of getting rid of it. I already had used my Cyclonic Rift and no way to get it back into my library. I think I might add a Venser Shaper Savant to help address the lack of bounce.
Yeah if their forge slips through past your counterspells it can be tough to get rid of. It interferes with the forge + disk + lattice gameplan but you can still kill them with blightsteel or hangarback walker. Venser is a great card and works nice for all kinds of situations so I think it will work well for you.
any reason why Goblin Cannon isn't used as a wincon once you have infinite mana?
Hi. And thanks for the question.
Goblin cannon is nice when you have infinite mana, but when you don't have infinite mana (which is the vast majority of the time), the card is not useful. And it dies after its ability resolves, which limits its usefulness even more (this would be relevant if one of your opponents was able to cast something to prevent damage that turn).
Once this deck is generating infinite mana, there's many ways to beat your opponents and many more ways to find the cards necessary to beat your opponents. Adding goblin cannon to the mix would just slow the deck down.
any reason why Goblin Cannon isn't used as a wincon once you have infinite mana?
Hi. And thanks for the question.
Goblin cannon is nice when you have infinite mana, but when you don't have infinite mana (which is the vast majority of the time), the card is not useful. And it dies after its ability resolves, which limits its usefulness even more (this would be relevant if one of your opponents was able to cast something to prevent damage that turn).
Once this deck is generating infinite mana, there's many ways to beat your opponents and many more ways to find the cards necessary to beat your opponents. Adding goblin cannon to the mix would just slow the deck down.
The reason I'm looking forward to building this deck is because I really like the idea of having a deck that can pretty easily either lock down the board or swing with a bunch of Blightsteel Colossuses really early in a game. I'm scrapping a Kozilek deck to make this because this seems way better at getting to the point I wanted to make with Kozilek. But if the chain of artifacts you tutor for goes: EOT Rings of Brighthearth next turn Basalt monolith + Staff of domination, don't you have infinite mana & infinite card draw? Wouldn't drawing into a Goblin Cannon and then doing infinite damage be more efficient win con choice then swinging with blightsteel and copies? Or am I missing something?
The reason I'm looking forward to building this deck is because I really like the idea of having a deck that can pretty easily either lock down the board or swing with a bunch of Blightsteel Colossuses really early in a game. I'm scrapping a Kozilek deck to make this because this seems way better at getting to the point I wanted to make with Kozilek. But if the chain of artifacts you tutor for goes: EOT Rings of Brighthearth next turn Basalt monolith + Staff of domination, don't you have infinite mana & infinite card draw? Wouldn't drawing into a Goblin Cannon and then doing infinite damage be more efficient win con choice then swinging with blightsteel and copies? Or am I missing something?
If you have infinite mana and a staff of domination in play, all your opponents will be shuffling up their decks because the game is over.
Sure, they could watch you play with yourself for a while and cringe as you blow up all their stuff with lattice/disk/forge in play, or swing at them with an infinitely large hangarback walker (or infinite tokens) or a bunch of blightsteel colossus. But they won't. Because the game is over.
I prefer wincons that are useful even when you do not have infinite mana. For example, there's been quite a few times where I had master transmuter in play and the colossus in my hand, and I snuck in the colossus at the end of the last player's turn and swung with it for the kill. The cannon is too mana intensive to use unless you have infinite mana and usually by that point, you've won the game anyway.
I prefer wincons that are useful even when you do not have infinite mana. For example, there's been quite a few times where I had master transmuter in play and the colossus in my hand, and I snuck in the colossus at the end of the last player's turn and swung with it for the kill. The cannon is too mana intensive to use unless you have infinite mana and usually by that point, you've won the game anyway.
I've rather enjoyed the relative obscurity of this primer--sometimes I'm just not around to answer everyone's questions--but at the risk of ruining that, I thought I'd share something interesting. You see, in the interest of keeping this primer optimized, I keep an eye on commander tournaments and I noticed something recently...
...and that is, an Arcum Dagsson deck recently placed top 8 in a large commander tournament.
Which is surprising considering that arcum is completely screwed by the duel commander banlist: we lost mishra's workshop, mana drain, sol ring, grim monolith, ancient tomb, mana crypt, mana vault, sol ring, mystical tutor, and sensei's top. Arcum's favorite toys are banned in duel commander
The previous 2 arcum decks that placed top 8 in recent years are...
It's such an odd deck and there doesn't seem to be many options in terms of a win condition. It seems to focus on getting infinite mana and using staff of domination, which is probably followed by an infinite hangarback walker or sacking the walker for infinite tokens.
I just figured some of you might find that interesting.
What are your thoughts on myr sire? I find it useful to use as fodder for something like greaves or some other protection, then using the token to start comboing.
I have a heavy Control Meta with two Damias, one Zur, one Sen Triplets, one Narset, 5ColorPlaneswalkers Control, a Zurgo(Onehitstyle).
All of them Run Counterspells and white Exileeffects for my wincons. It actually happens that i run out of stuff i can win with.
How would you change your list with those decks in mind? I'm not talking Budget, but about adjusting.
Sorry, I don't know how I missed this post. I check the multiplayer forum 1st page every day or two to see if any of my threads pop up, but somehow I missed this.
Your meta reminds me of mine and I wouldn't make any changes to the decklist. I suspect you might be thinking that the way for you to combo out more reliably is to insert more combo pieces, but I recommend against doing that. I would be more careful about my existing combo pieces, not bring in new ones.
In a meta with a bunch of control players that know how strong arcum is, there's a few things that I consider when I try to combo out.
One is that I don't try to combo out right away. The faster you can do it, the less likely that you are able to protect it. I'd rather try to end the game on turn 5-6 with counterspell backup than try to do it on turn 3 and hope nobody interferes with it (unless perhaps, everyone is tapped out).
Two is that I don't want to be the first guy to drop bombs. The first big spell always gets countered/exiled/etc so don't bother wasting your resources. Let another player appear threatening first. And do what you can to keep the target on that guy's head.
And three is that arcum has the reputation, not so much the other pieces. I focus a lot on winning without using arcum in a group like that, and sometimes I cast arcum for no other reason than to let it get countered/killed and to waste people's resources...and equally importantly...to make my opponents think that they have just ruined my plans and am not immediately threatening.
What are your thoughts on myr sire? I find it useful to use as fodder for something like greaves or some other protection, then using the token to start comboing.
He's good, but for me and my meta, it doesn't do enough. The main problems I face are disruption and mana and he doesn't help with either. But if you find that your main difficulty is not having enough fodder for arcum, by all means include him.
Personally, I count myself lucky if I can use arcum one single time in an entire game. My playgroup rarely lets me use him once, let alone twice.
I suspect you already know the answer but I'm more than happy to confirm it for you.
The short version: the dynamo is faster and I'm all about speed baby.
The long version: the two artifacts essentially do the same thing - create 3 mana. Not only is this deck monocolor, most of the spells are colorless, so the fact that the lotus produces blue is redundant in a deck that is so rarely hurting for colored mana. If I had gilded lotus in here, 95% of the time I drew it I'd wish it was the dynamo instead. The lotus is fine in casual lists, but the dynamo is far more efficient and clearly a better choice in an optimized list.
I suspect you already know the answer but I'm more than happy to confirm it for you.
The short version: the dynamo is faster and I'm all about speed baby.
The long version: the two artifacts essentially do the same thing - create 3 mana. Not only is this deck monocolor, most of the spells are colorless, so the fact that the lotus produces blue is redundant in a deck that is so rarely hurting for colored mana. If I had gilded lotus in here, 95% of the time I drew it I'd wish it was the dynamo instead. The lotus is fine in casual lists, but the dynamo is far more efficient and clearly a better choice in an optimized list.
Just went through this thread but I must have missed it somewhere. No mention at all of Millikin? Seems like the kind of effect this deck is looking to max out on.
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You would never guess, at the terrifying sight of the man, that Hunding was as charming a companion as one could wish for.
Just went through this thread but I must have missed it somewhere. No mention at all of Millikin? Seems like the kind of effect this deck is looking to max out on.
Oops yeah I've always had millikin in the deck. That must have disappeared accidentally during one of my edits. Thanks for catching that.
Do you find it harder to play with the thicker fake cards? Those always tend to stick out to me when I shuffle.
..
If you're referring to the monoliths and the nevy disk, those don't feel any different than any other card. They're the same thickness and bend the same as any other card.
They're not fake either. A company used to make those by printing some kind of holographic foil ink on real cards. My understanding is they went out of business due to lawsuits from using other people's art and selling it, and I haven't seen cards like that for a long time. Which is too bad, they're pretty amazing.
I suspect you already know the answer but I'm more than happy to confirm it for you.
The short version: the dynamo is faster and I'm all about speed baby.
The long version: the two artifacts essentially do the same thing - create 3 mana. Not only is this deck monocolor, most of the spells are colorless, so the fact that the lotus produces blue is redundant in a deck that is so rarely hurting for colored mana. If I had gilded lotus in here, 95% of the time I drew it I'd wish it was the dynamo instead. The lotus is fine in casual lists, but the dynamo is far more efficient and clearly a better choice in an optimized list.
Also, with all those foil symbols next to your cards, do you think we could see some pictures of how it looks irl?
Heck yes you can! Deck pics
And here's the islands I used to use:
I know you may think it's obvious, and for good reason, because it was true. But, the reason I asked was because the other Arcum Primer ran gilded lotus and referred to dynamo as "subpar mana rock"
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My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
GBRJundGBR
URWJeskai NahiriURW
My Legacy Deck:
URBGrixis DelverURB
My EDH Decks:
GJarad, Golgari Lich LordB
GRhys, The RedeemedW
RWArchangel AvacynRW
UWDragonlord OjutaiUW
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/617899-arcum-dagsson
I updated the list accordingly.
Edit: oh and as for origins, I like the set. My favorite artifact out of it is alhammarret's archive, although there's no place for it in this deck.
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
CardboardCreationism
ETSY COUNTERS
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
+1 hedron crawler
-1 mind stone
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
Goblin cannon is nice when you have infinite mana, but when you don't have infinite mana (which is the vast majority of the time), the card is not useful. And it dies after its ability resolves, which limits its usefulness even more (this would be relevant if one of your opponents was able to cast something to prevent damage that turn).
Once this deck is generating infinite mana, there's many ways to beat your opponents and many more ways to find the cards necessary to beat your opponents. Adding goblin cannon to the mix would just slow the deck down.
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
The reason I'm looking forward to building this deck is because I really like the idea of having a deck that can pretty easily either lock down the board or swing with a bunch of Blightsteel Colossuses really early in a game. I'm scrapping a Kozilek deck to make this because this seems way better at getting to the point I wanted to make with Kozilek. But if the chain of artifacts you tutor for goes: EOT Rings of Brighthearth next turn Basalt monolith + Staff of domination, don't you have infinite mana & infinite card draw? Wouldn't drawing into a Goblin Cannon and then doing infinite damage be more efficient win con choice then swinging with blightsteel and copies? Or am I missing something?
Sure, they could watch you play with yourself for a while and cringe as you blow up all their stuff with lattice/disk/forge in play, or swing at them with an infinitely large hangarback walker (or infinite tokens) or a bunch of blightsteel colossus. But they won't. Because the game is over.
I prefer wincons that are useful even when you do not have infinite mana. For example, there's been quite a few times where I had master transmuter in play and the colossus in my hand, and I snuck in the colossus at the end of the last player's turn and swung with it for the kill. The cannon is too mana intensive to use unless you have infinite mana and usually by that point, you've won the game anyway.
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
thats what I was missing. good talk.
...and that is, an Arcum Dagsson deck recently placed top 8 in a large commander tournament.
Which is surprising considering that arcum is completely screwed by the duel commander banlist: we lost mishra's workshop, mana drain, sol ring, grim monolith, ancient tomb, mana crypt, mana vault, sol ring, mystical tutor, and sensei's top. Arcum's favorite toys are banned in duel commander
The previous 2 arcum decks that placed top 8 in recent years are...
1 Arcum Dagsson
31 LANDS
1 Academy Ruins
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Buried Ruin
1 Crystal Vein
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Dread Statuary
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Phyrexia's Core
1 Seat of the Synod
19 Snow-Covered Island
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Tolaria West
23 CREATURES
1 Aphetto Alchemist
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Etherium Sculptor
1 Grand Architect
1 Junk Diver
1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Manakin
1 Master Transmuter
1 Memnite
1 Millikin
1 Myr Moonvessel
1 Myr Retriever
1 Ornithopter
1 Palladium Myr
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Plague Myr
1 Shimmer Myr
1 Silver Myr
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Spellskite
1 Trinket Mage
1 Vedalken Engineer
14 INSTANTS and SORC.
1 Boomerang
1 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Memory Lapse
1 Peek
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Remand
1 Stoic Rebuttal
1 Swan Song
1 Thoughtcast
31 OTHER SPELLS
1 Akroma's Memorial
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Coalition Relic
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Darksteel Forge
1 Expedition Map
1 Eye of Ramos
1 Guardian Idol
1 Krark-Clan Ironworks
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Mind Stone
1 Mindslaver
1 Mox Opal
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Myr Incubator
1 Myr Turbine
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ring of Three Wishes
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Sky Diamond
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
1 Trading Post
1 Unknown Card
1 Unwinding Clock
1 Voltaic Key
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Arcum Dagsson
40 LANDS
1 Academy Ruins
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Inkmoth Nexus
33 Island
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Wasteland
15 CREATURES
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Copper Gnomes
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Lighthouse Chronologist
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
1 Master Transmuter
1 Memnarch
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Shimmer Myr
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
10 INSTANTS and SORC.
1 All Is Dust
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Capsize
1 Cryptic Command
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Forbid
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Spell Burst
1 Trickbind
34 OTHER SPELLS
1 Akroma's Memorial
1 Back to Basics
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Blasting Station
1 Caged Sun
1 Darksteel Forge
1 Future Sight
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Grinding Station
1 Invoke Prejudice
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Knowledge Pool
1 Leyline of Anticipation
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Lotus Bloom
1 Mindslaver
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Myr Incubator
1 Myr Matrix
1 Myr Turbine
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Pithing Needle
1 Possessed Portal
1 Rhystic Study
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Salvaging Station
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Skullclamp
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Summoning Station
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
1 Vedalken Shackles
But the recent Arcum deck, which was in a 4-way tie for 5th place in a 56-player tournament in Sao Paulo, Brazil, took a different approach:
1 Arcum Dagsson
40 LANDS
1 Academy Ruins
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Buried Ruin
1 Crystal Vein
1 Flooded Strand
1 Foundry of the Consuls
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Inkmoth Nexus
22 Island
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Svyelunite Temple
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Tolaria West
13 CREATURES
1 Etherium Sculptor
1 Hangarback Walker
1 Hedron Crawler
1 Junk Diver
1 Manakin
1 Millikin
1 Myr Retriever
1 Palladium Myr
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Plague Myr
1 Silver Myr
1 Spellskite
1 Trinket Mage
27 INSTANTS and SORC.
1 Arcane Denial
1 Brainstorm
1 Compulsive Research
1 Counterspell
1 Cryptic Command
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Daze
1 Delay
1 Dig Through Time
1 Dissolve
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Force of Will
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Into the Roil
1 Lat-Nam's Legacy
1 Mana Leak
1 Memory Lapse
1 Negate
1 Pact of Negation
1 Peek
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Spell Pierce
1 Swan Song
1 Think Twice
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Treasure Cruise
19 OTHER SPELLS
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Clock of Omens
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Expedition Map
1 Guardian Idol
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Mind Stone
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Myr Turbine
1 Pithing Needle
1 Possessed Portal
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Skullclamp
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Staff of Domination
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Tangle Wire
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
I just figured some of you might find that interesting.
Edit: made a mistake copying that last deck
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
And here's the islands I used to use:
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
Your meta reminds me of mine and I wouldn't make any changes to the decklist. I suspect you might be thinking that the way for you to combo out more reliably is to insert more combo pieces, but I recommend against doing that. I would be more careful about my existing combo pieces, not bring in new ones.
In a meta with a bunch of control players that know how strong arcum is, there's a few things that I consider when I try to combo out.
One is that I don't try to combo out right away. The faster you can do it, the less likely that you are able to protect it. I'd rather try to end the game on turn 5-6 with counterspell backup than try to do it on turn 3 and hope nobody interferes with it (unless perhaps, everyone is tapped out).
Two is that I don't want to be the first guy to drop bombs. The first big spell always gets countered/exiled/etc so don't bother wasting your resources. Let another player appear threatening first. And do what you can to keep the target on that guy's head.
And three is that arcum has the reputation, not so much the other pieces. I focus a lot on winning without using arcum in a group like that, and sometimes I cast arcum for no other reason than to let it get countered/killed and to waste people's resources...and equally importantly...to make my opponents think that they have just ruined my plans and am not immediately threatening.
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
He's good, but for me and my meta, it doesn't do enough. The main problems I face are disruption and mana and he doesn't help with either. But if you find that your main difficulty is not having enough fodder for arcum, by all means include him.
Personally, I count myself lucky if I can use arcum one single time in an entire game. My playgroup rarely lets me use him once, let alone twice.
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
The short version: the dynamo is faster and I'm all about speed baby.
The long version: the two artifacts essentially do the same thing - create 3 mana. Not only is this deck monocolor, most of the spells are colorless, so the fact that the lotus produces blue is redundant in a deck that is so rarely hurting for colored mana. If I had gilded lotus in here, 95% of the time I drew it I'd wish it was the dynamo instead. The lotus is fine in casual lists, but the dynamo is far more efficient and clearly a better choice in an optimized list.
Heck yes you can!
Deck pics
And here's the islands I used to use:
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
Do you find it harder to play with the thicker fake cards? Those always tend to stick out to me when I shuffle.
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
They're not fake either. A company used to make those by printing some kind of holographic foil ink on real cards. My understanding is they went out of business due to lawsuits from using other people's art and selling it, and I haven't seen cards like that for a long time. Which is too bad, they're pretty amazing.
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
I know you may think it's obvious, and for good reason, because it was true. But, the reason I asked was because the other Arcum Primer ran gilded lotus and referred to dynamo as "subpar mana rock"