Have you tried Nim Deathmantle? I know people have varying degrees of success with it, because a lot of people don't like to leave up 4 mana to use it. But when I've used it, it's been part of the plan. Sac Yosei to a Phyrexian Tower giving you two of the mana you need for the Deathmantle, tap two more lands to bring Yosei back and slow down an opponent.
Have you tried Nim Deathmantle? I know people have varying degrees of success with it, because a lot of people don't like to leave up 4 mana to use it. But when I've used it, it's been part of the plan. Sac Yosei to a Phyrexian Tower giving you two of the mana you need for the Deathmantle, tap two more lands to bring Yosei back and slow down an opponent.
I feel like I need to question this as it feels a bit clunkier than the Yosei-lock enabled by Kaalia I mention in my own list. Mine involves Sword of Light and Shadow, and doesn't need to have Phyrexian Tower specifically, any sac outlet will do(I like High Market, but Diamond Valley would be incredible here, and yes I understand PhyTow beats Split Second).
Essentially how it works is; Equip Kaalia with SolaS. Swing, drop Yosei on trigger. Before damage, sacrifice Yosei to [insert good sac outlet here]; this will tap them out. Then, on combat damage, return Yosei to hand with the Sword trigger. ???. Profit!
Have you tried Nim Deathmantle? I know people have varying degrees of success with it, because a lot of people don't like to leave up 4 mana to use it. But when I've used it, it's been part of the plan. Sac Yosei to a Phyrexian Tower giving you two of the mana you need for the Deathmantle, tap two more lands to bring Yosei back and slow down an opponent.
My deck tends not to rely on specific card combinations. I judge cards for my deck by whether they would be usable by themselves. Yosei is a good card even if I don't have a Yosei lock. Nim Deathmantle needs to be built around a little, and there are much better equipment cards to be had.
When I had Nim Deathmantle in my hand, I didn't always have a sac outlet. Other times, my creatures get exiled, negating the Nim Deathmantle's effects. My personal experience has been 'meh' on this card. I would rather use Sword of Light and Shadow.
I love this Hide/Seek card. I didn't even know about it until I saw your list. I'm going to pick one up and try it. =)
I didn't know about it until I saw it in somebody else's Kaalia list with a Sunforger. lol
Both halves of the card are relevant to a Kaalia player. With Sunforger, the card is much easier to find. Without Sunforger, I think it is still a good card to keep around, but you will have to tutor or draw for it.
It has a decent cost and I'd think it'll always be useful whenever it's drawn. I've already got mine on order. lol
BTW, I was wondering why you play Ghost Quarter over Strip Mine?
It has a decent cost and I'd think it'll always be useful whenever it's drawn. I've already got mine on order. lol
BTW, I was wondering why you play Ghost Quarter over Strip Mine?
I ran out of money, so I picked the more important cards to acquire first.
In addition, my playgroup rarely runs any utility lands that I need to destroy.
Of the important cards in a Kaalia deck, I don't have Vindicate yet due to cost.
Lastly, if you have looked at 3drinks's list, you will notice that I also do not have original dual lands. I will never acquire them unless I win the lottery. They are too expensive for my tastes. If you take an EDH deck to a "competitive" environment (as in you pay an entry fee), then you need the original dual lands for your A-game. I play in friendly games, so such cards are not needed.
I too, do not have the budget for original duals or "shock" lands. I'm pretty much making do with all the other "affordable" lands available. LOL
I'd love to be able to afford a Vindicate as well.
As far as cost on Strip Mine, I'm pretty sure it's down to only a few bucks. I could be wrong though. And if you don't need it, then you don't need it, I guess.
I did, however, trade a Sun Titan and a Beseech the Queen for a Phyrexian Tower this morning at work. SCORE! =D
I too, do not have the budget for original duals or "shock" lands. I'm pretty much making do with all the other "affordable" lands available. LOL
I'd love to be able to afford a Vindicate as well.
As far as cost on Strip Mine, I'm pretty sure it's down to only a few bucks. I could be wrong though. And if you don't need it, then you don't need it, I guess.
I did, however, trade a Sun Titan and a Beseech the Queen for a Phyrexian Tower this morning at work. SCORE! =D
Shocklands is about as far as I will go and that is only in the correct colors (BW, RB, and RW). I have seen Kaalia decks stuff every possible dual land, including where one of the land types don't even fit in the deck. (i.e. Savannah for Kaalia, where the green part produces colorless only, just so you have another Plains to fetch)
EDIT: 3drinks said that the color identity rule would prevent a Savannah from being in the deck. I think I saw a Windswept Heath.
Strip Mine is around $4-$5, so I'll probably be picking one up in the near future and retiring Ghost Quarter.
Phyrexian Tower is a major sacrifice outlet needed to propel the decks. Most times, I don't even need the BB. That was a good trade, but I do use Sun Titan in my deck to retrieve some permanents, so you will have to see if you can do without it.
Shocklands is about as far as I will go and that is only in the correct colors (BW, RB, and RW). I have seen Kaalia decks stuff every possible dual land, including where one of the land types don't even fit in the deck. (i.e. Savannah for Kaalia, where the green part produces colorless only, just so you have another Plains to fetch)
how can they even play Savannah in a non-G deck? As it has the G symbol on the card, this makes it an illegal card to play in their deck er colour identity rule.
how can they even play Savannah in a non-G deck? As it has the G symbol on the card, this makes it an illegal card to play in their deck er colour identity rule.
Wait, maybe I misinterpreted it for Windswept Heath. There is no mana symbol in it.
Wait, maybe I misinterpreted it for Windswept Heath. There is no mana symbol in it.
Ahh that makes sense then.
The reasoning for including all those other fetchlands is like this:
You can only play six duals(three shocks, three OG duals) so every fetchland you have is essentially that many more duals you can run(since they always find two land types of cards). This, as you would imagine, is a tremendous advantage for occupying just a land slot.
However, I choose to play just six instead of the full nine, because I actively want to ensure I am not going below six basics to adequately function under Moon effects, Back to Basics, etc. I have also felt with the six fetchlands(which gives me twelve fetchable duals of course) that I have been more than adequate on colours.
Obviously, if you don't have all the duals for them, their usefulness will diminish a fair bit as you are just finding basics. However they still offer a shuffle after a whiff on a Sensei's Divining Top activation, etc. So it's more general utility. It may not seem like much, but it adds up to a [non-zero] net positive result.
The reasoning for including all those other fetchlands is like this:
You can only play six duals(three shocks, three OG duals) so every fetchland you have is essentially that many more duals you can run(since they always find two land types of cards). This, as you would imagine, is a tremendous advantage for occupying just a land slot.
...SNIP!...
Obviously, if you don't have all the duals for them, their usefulness will diminish a fair bit as you are just finding basics. However they still offer a shuffle after a whiff on a Sensei's Divining Top activation, etc. So it's more general utility. It may not seem like much, but it adds up to a [non-zero] net positive result.
Thanks for explaining the strategy behind extra fetchlands. Very informative!
Phyrexian Tower is a major sacrifice outlet needed to propel the decks. Most times, I don't even need the BB. That was a good trade, but I do use Sun Titan in my deck to retrieve some permanents, so you will have to see if you can do without it.
Phyrexian Tower is amazing! I can't wait to use it to recur Yosei the Morning Star and then use the BB to activate Volrath's Stronghold.
I've got plenty of Sun Titans. I kept all of my promo ones from M11, and since I've decided to steer clear of white until rotation (I'm sticking to Volt Charge RDW for Standard), I had one extra. =)
I definitely have a Sun Titan in Kaalia. He's too good not to play. I love getting my swords back.
Phyrexian Tower is amazing! I can't wait to use it to recur Yosei the Morning Star and then use the BB to activate Volrath's Stronghold.
I've got plenty of Sun Titans. I kept all of my promo ones from M11, and since I've decided to steer clear of white until rotation (I'm sticking to Volt Charge RDW for Standard), I had one extra. =)
I definitely have a Sun Titan in Kaalia. He's too good not to play. I love getting my swords back.
You have an extra Sun Titan. Great. Then, your Kaalia deck will be in great shape. Have fun attacking your opponents!
Two questions for ya:
(1) How is Beacon of Unrest working out? I'm thinking of trying it.
(2) Why not play Darksteel Plate over General's Kabuto? It's cheaper and it allows Kaalia to survive a boardwipe. Is it because of the hexproof ability it grants?
Two questions for ya:
(1) How is Beacon of Unrest working out? I'm thinking of trying it.
(2) Why not play Darksteel Plate over General's Kabuto? It's cheaper and it allows Kaalia to survive a boardwipe. Is it because of the hexproof ability it grants?
I'm liking some of the changes I've seen. =)
Beacon of Unrest is good in my meta. It gives me a free shuffle for Sensei's Divining Top, is reasonably costed for Commander/EDH, and can grab any creature or artifact. It's a black steal card from the graveyard. Most times I grab my own creatures, but sometimes a gem can be found in an opponent's graveyard.
I tried Darksteel Plate and while it's good at surviving a board wipe and creature combat, it does not make Kaalia untargetable. My meta has targeted removal that bounces or exiles, so I decided that General's Kabuto would be better. Basically, Lightning Greaves and Swiftfoot Boots for the cheap option and General's Kabuto for the later option.
I have had General's Kabuto attached to Sun Titan, and he was able to go to town bringing back everything I lost in my graveyard.
Dolmen Gate is a fantastic card for Kaalia (and great in commander in general). Sure it doesn't prevent your creatures from dying to board wipes or targeted removal but it allows you to attack without worrying about your opponents blocking and possibly killing your creatures.
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Look at my name...what did you expect?
Thank you WOTC for introducing the Modern format, a format where all the whiners can enjoy a level playing field and where they can play with none of the best cards of all time!
Dolmen Gate is a fantastic card for Kaalia (and great in commander in general). Sure it doesn't prevent your creatures from dying to board wipes or targeted removal but it allows you to attack without worrying about your opponents blocking and possibly killing your creatures.
I had considered it in an early Kaalia build, but I found that it wasn't good enough. In my meta, I'm at most attacking with 2-3 creatures before removal is played. I also do not overextend myself, because of the board wipes you mentioned. I would rather use the card slot for hexproof/shroud/unblockable artifacts. With the reanimation package, I'm less worried about things dying, because I can just bring them right back.
Eriol, this may be a dumb question, but....does Sunforger's unattach ability work at sorcery speed or instant speed. I know attaching is sorcery speed, as is transferring, but I couldn't find the rules for unattaching. As far as I know, you're allowed to equip and transfer, but not unattach unless an ability grants you that (weird).
Eriol, this may be a dumb question, but....does Sunforger's unattach ability work at sorcery speed or instant speed. I know attaching is sorcery speed, as is transferring, but I couldn't find the rules for unattaching. As far as I know, you're allowed to equip and transfer, but not unattach unless an ability grants you that (weird).
Sunforger's unattach activated ability can be used at instant speed. That is what makes the equipment a bit of a problem for your opponents. Do they try to get rid of it immediately, or let you equip it, allowing you access to a red or white instant in your library for 2 CMC?
We need to make a distinction between the attach action from the Equip ability versus the attach action from other cards or effects. For example, Brass Squire allows you to attach Equipment at instant speed.
Also, you can fetch hybrid or multi-colored cards as long as it shares red or white in the casting cost. Even though Terminate is red and black, the only part that matters to Sunforger is that Terminate is red, so it is retrievable.
Sunforger's unattach activated ability can be used at instant speed. That is what makes the equipment a bit of a problem for your opponents. Do they try to get rid of it immediately, or let you equip it, allowing you access to a red or white instant in your library for 2 CMC?
We need to make a distinction between the attach action from the Equip ability versus the attach action from other cards or effects. For example, Brass Squire allows you to attach Equipment at instant speed.
Also, you can fetch hybrid or multi-colored cards as long as it shares red or white in the casting cost. Even though Terminate is red and black, the only part that matters to Sunforger is that Terminate is red, so it is retrievable.
Cool, thanks, man. This helps. I know I stated that I wasn't sure on how this card would work in my Kaalia build but I was thinking of trying it in another deck I've got in the pipes: Ruhan of the Fumori. Not quite sure of the direction for the deck yet, but the way you've talked about Sunforger, and looking at your decklist for Kaalia kinda gives me some ideas. It also doesn't hurt that I picked up the card for less than a buck.
Cool, thanks, man. This helps. I know I stated that I wasn't sure on how this card would work in my Kaalia build but I was thinking of trying it in another deck I've got in the pipes: Ruhan of the Fumori. Not quite sure of the direction for the deck yet, but the way you've talked about Sunforger, and looking at your decklist for Kaalia kinda gives me some ideas. It also doesn't hurt that I picked up the card for less than a buck.
My decklist in my first post changes on and off. Currently, it's not running Sunforger, because I am trying some other cards. I might put it back later.
I originally added Sunforger, just so my deck has something else to do besides attack with creatures. Even though it is 1 card in 99 cards, I have some tutors, so I could retrieve it in a jiffy.
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WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
I feel like I need to question this as it feels a bit clunkier than the Yosei-lock enabled by Kaalia I mention in my own list. Mine involves Sword of Light and Shadow, and doesn't need to have Phyrexian Tower specifically, any sac outlet will do(I like High Market, but Diamond Valley would be incredible here, and yes I understand PhyTow beats Split Second).
Essentially how it works is; Equip Kaalia with SolaS. Swing, drop Yosei on trigger. Before damage, sacrifice Yosei to [insert good sac outlet here]; this will tap them out. Then, on combat damage, return Yosei to hand with the Sword trigger. ???. Profit!
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
My deck tends not to rely on specific card combinations. I judge cards for my deck by whether they would be usable by themselves. Yosei is a good card even if I don't have a Yosei lock. Nim Deathmantle needs to be built around a little, and there are much better equipment cards to be had.
When I had Nim Deathmantle in my hand, I didn't always have a sac outlet. Other times, my creatures get exiled, negating the Nim Deathmantle's effects. My personal experience has been 'meh' on this card. I would rather use Sword of Light and Shadow.
I didn't know about it until I saw it in somebody else's Kaalia list with a Sunforger. lol
Both halves of the card are relevant to a Kaalia player. With Sunforger, the card is much easier to find. Without Sunforger, I think it is still a good card to keep around, but you will have to tutor or draw for it.
BTW, I was wondering why you play Ghost Quarter over Strip Mine?
I ran out of money, so I picked the more important cards to acquire first.
In addition, my playgroup rarely runs any utility lands that I need to destroy.
Of the important cards in a Kaalia deck, I don't have Vindicate yet due to cost.
Lastly, if you have looked at 3drinks's list, you will notice that I also do not have original dual lands. I will never acquire them unless I win the lottery. They are too expensive for my tastes. If you take an EDH deck to a "competitive" environment (as in you pay an entry fee), then you need the original dual lands for your A-game. I play in friendly games, so such cards are not needed.
I'd love to be able to afford a Vindicate as well.
As far as cost on Strip Mine, I'm pretty sure it's down to only a few bucks. I could be wrong though. And if you don't need it, then you don't need it, I guess.
I did, however, trade a Sun Titan and a Beseech the Queen for a Phyrexian Tower this morning at work. SCORE! =D
Shocklands is about as far as I will go and that is only in the correct colors (BW, RB, and RW). I have seen Kaalia decks stuff every possible dual land, including where one of the land types don't even fit in the deck. (i.e. Savannah for Kaalia, where the green part produces colorless only, just so you have another Plains to fetch)
EDIT: 3drinks said that the color identity rule would prevent a Savannah from being in the deck. I think I saw a Windswept Heath.
Strip Mine is around $4-$5, so I'll probably be picking one up in the near future and retiring Ghost Quarter.
Phyrexian Tower is a major sacrifice outlet needed to propel the decks. Most times, I don't even need the BB. That was a good trade, but I do use Sun Titan in my deck to retrieve some permanents, so you will have to see if you can do without it.
how can they even play Savannah in a non-G deck? As it has the G symbol on the card, this makes it an illegal card to play in their deck er colour identity rule.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Wait, maybe I misinterpreted it for Windswept Heath. There is no mana symbol in it.
Ahh that makes sense then.
The reasoning for including all those other fetchlands is like this:
You can only play six duals(three shocks, three OG duals) so every fetchland you have is essentially that many more duals you can run(since they always find two land types of cards). This, as you would imagine, is a tremendous advantage for occupying just a land slot.
However, I choose to play just six instead of the full nine, because I actively want to ensure I am not going below six basics to adequately function under Moon effects, Back to Basics, etc. I have also felt with the six fetchlands(which gives me twelve fetchable duals of course) that I have been more than adequate on colours.
Obviously, if you don't have all the duals for them, their usefulness will diminish a fair bit as you are just finding basics. However they still offer a shuffle after a whiff on a Sensei's Divining Top activation, etc. So it's more general utility. It may not seem like much, but it adds up to a [non-zero] net positive result.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Thanks for explaining the strategy behind extra fetchlands. Very informative!
Phyrexian Tower is amazing! I can't wait to use it to recur Yosei the Morning Star and then use the BB to activate Volrath's Stronghold.
I've got plenty of Sun Titans. I kept all of my promo ones from M11, and since I've decided to steer clear of white until rotation (I'm sticking to Volt Charge RDW for Standard), I had one extra. =)
I definitely have a Sun Titan in Kaalia. He's too good not to play. I love getting my swords back.
You have an extra Sun Titan. Great. Then, your Kaalia deck will be in great shape. Have fun attacking your opponents!
Thanks.
(1) How is Beacon of Unrest working out? I'm thinking of trying it.
(2) Why not play Darksteel Plate over General's Kabuto? It's cheaper and it allows Kaalia to survive a boardwipe. Is it because of the hexproof ability it grants?
I'm liking some of the changes I've seen. =)
Beacon of Unrest is good in my meta. It gives me a free shuffle for Sensei's Divining Top, is reasonably costed for Commander/EDH, and can grab any creature or artifact. It's a black steal card from the graveyard. Most times I grab my own creatures, but sometimes a gem can be found in an opponent's graveyard.
I tried Darksteel Plate and while it's good at surviving a board wipe and creature combat, it does not make Kaalia untargetable. My meta has targeted removal that bounces or exiles, so I decided that General's Kabuto would be better. Basically, Lightning Greaves and Swiftfoot Boots for the cheap option and General's Kabuto for the later option.
I have had General's Kabuto attached to Sun Titan, and he was able to go to town bringing back everything I lost in my graveyard.
Ah, the reason why we love Sun Titan. Lol
Thank you WOTC for introducing the Modern format, a format where all the whiners can enjoy a level playing field and where they can play with none of the best cards of all time!
I had considered it in an early Kaalia build, but I found that it wasn't good enough. In my meta, I'm at most attacking with 2-3 creatures before removal is played. I also do not overextend myself, because of the board wipes you mentioned. I would rather use the card slot for hexproof/shroud/unblockable artifacts. With the reanimation package, I'm less worried about things dying, because I can just bring them right back.
Sunforger's unattach activated ability can be used at instant speed. That is what makes the equipment a bit of a problem for your opponents. Do they try to get rid of it immediately, or let you equip it, allowing you access to a red or white instant in your library for 2 CMC?
We need to make a distinction between the attach action from the Equip ability versus the attach action from other cards or effects. For example, Brass Squire allows you to attach Equipment at instant speed.
Also, you can fetch hybrid or multi-colored cards as long as it shares red or white in the casting cost. Even though Terminate is red and black, the only part that matters to Sunforger is that Terminate is red, so it is retrievable.
Cool, thanks, man. This helps. I know I stated that I wasn't sure on how this card would work in my Kaalia build but I was thinking of trying it in another deck I've got in the pipes: Ruhan of the Fumori. Not quite sure of the direction for the deck yet, but the way you've talked about Sunforger, and looking at your decklist for Kaalia kinda gives me some ideas. It also doesn't hurt that I picked up the card for less than a buck.
My decklist in my first post changes on and off. Currently, it's not running Sunforger, because I am trying some other cards. I might put it back later.
I originally added Sunforger, just so my deck has something else to do besides attack with creatures. Even though it is 1 card in 99 cards, I have some tutors, so I could retrieve it in a jiffy.