Soon after starting EDH I had decided I wanted to build a deck around one of the actual Elder Dragons, especially as I had at the time recently removed the 5 from my Cromat deck; we were becoming more competitive (Ha ha, I laugh. I should say instead that we were removing the excessively casual stuff from the decks, a la 5 elder dragons. lol).
Nicol Bolas is the more popular choice, but he really has a heavy threat hanging over his head. Also, everyone and their half brother knows about mr. Bolas, the other have significantly less love, and for no good reason! Instead, Vaevictis seemed to have a more concrete theme to me... He has three abilities, and they all do the same thing. When it comes to single minded cleaving of face, shedding of bones, and hearing the lamentations of women, Vaevictis has got you covered.
The deck follows that ideal. The entire goal is to pull out mr.Face Cleaver, and turn him sideways. With a general who costs 8, this isn't easy, but it is extremely satisfying.
This is one of the older decks that I have, and the one that has stayed most true to its original idea and execution.
Discovered what had replaced Seizan and wasn't recorded - Olivia Voldaren
-2 mountain
-swamp
-tainted wood
-tainted peak
-svogthos, the restless tomb
-sword of fire and ice
-fling
-Reaper of the Abyss
-Seedguide Ash
-Serum Tank
-2 mountain, -1 swamp.
-Eternal Witness
Haste is going to benefit Vaevictis Asmadi more if it doesn't cost additional mana because of how expensive he is. Some that you could try over Sword of Vengeance and Helm of Kalra are Fervor, In the Web of War and Madrush Cyclops with the latter 2 being the most on theme.
This deck really wants a Mana Reflection both to cast your commander earlier and it makes his firebreathing abilities very dangerous.
The advantage of the Sword of Vengeance and Helm of Kaldra though are they they also give trample, which is simply amazing when you have that much front end damage on a creature. I do like the suggestions of the web and cyclops though, honestly, every single source of haste gets shut down when I place this deck for some odd reason =P. I think I can definitely find room for both. The web makes everything I play a quick threat, and the cyclops gives haste while holding swords, so I like both of them.
I ran Mana Flare and heartbeat of spring in the early version of the deck, and they eventually came out for not doing too much, but Mana Refelction could be a good addition for not being symmetric.
I never build a red list anymore without including Chaos Warp. It's just too valuable for tucking opponents awful permanents, and in my experience, they usually flip a land off their deck in the exchange.
Copy/redirect cards like reiterate and wild ricochet I always find are great for piggy backing on an opponents' ramp or tutors, or sending kill spells back at them.
I'd switch out some of your slower ramp spells like khalni heart and seedguide ash in favor of old standards like cultivate or kodama's reach. If you're able to get duals or shock lands, cards like skyshroud claim and wood elves are fantastic.
Finally, keep track during your games of your equips to creature ratios. You and I are running a similarly small list of creatures. I found that I was spending so much time ramping up to VA, that I didn't have a sufficient number of cheap blockers to deal with faster decks. One of my friends playing Thelon slapped me around pretty good before I could mount an adequate creature defense.
Chaos Warp is indeed a versatile removal spell, I think Wrecking Ball can easily be replaced for it.
Braid of Fire seems interesting, but it might be a little narrow in my deck. I'll have to consider it.
Reiterate and Wild Ricochet were both in my deck for the purpose of piggybacking off of ramp or draw, but I found them to be too slow. I replaced them with actual ramp/draw and have been doing better. I do miss copying exsanguinates though.
I do like cultivate and kodama's, but it gets a bit tricky as to which ones to run. Khalni goes off fairly quickly, and ramps 3 lands out immeditately, so I like him. Seedguide can hold a sword. Lately he gets pathed quite a bit though.
I do own duals and shocks, but in singles, so it gets to be a pain to make proxies for every deck I have. My Cromat list runs (most of) the ones I have, and I could proxy them over... but right now I've been ok without them, so Ihaven't really pressed myself on including them. Skyshroud claim is a beast of a card though, and when I do get around to fixing my mana and ramp situation, you have a lot of good suggestions.
I find it to be dificult to run a heavy creature list with VA, he soaks up a lot of your mana on his own. That's why my creature list tends to be a bit on the cheaper side. I will gladly stick a sword or two early on my walking atlas. An atlas with a sword of vengeance and a sword of fire and ice is a scary thing to run into.
One champ who is missing from this list though... Godo, Bandit Warlod. I think he's making it into every single deck I run that has red in it. He's simply a phenomenal beatstick.
Also, I'm thinking of replacing a removal with Shattering Pulse.
Tempted to add Fires of Yavimaya. Not sure what to replace. Will be playing this tonight and seeing what isn't clicking.
Tempted to cut about 4 lands and replace with mana rocks. I am not sure why Sol Ring isn't on the list. No, seriously, I have no idea when that got lost on the make-up. It used to be in here, now I realize its not. This is an issue. I've also been looking for a deck for my Mana Crypt I think this one may qualify.
Champion's Helm stays. Just played a game that reminded me why hexproof is good when you're putting all your eggs in one basket. On the other side, fling used to be pretty cute, (you do WHAT to my general? Eat Flaming Dragon) I think that Grab the reins has replaced it well. The Swiftfoot boots will take its place.
Reaper of the Abyss is a large target, with little effect in this deck. I'm not packing major amounts of removal, so I'm depending on other people killing stuff. Oddly, they choose to kill him. I found who's tagging out for the Madrush Cyclops (should arrive soon).
Seedguide Ash is good. I may be using him too much though. He's in several decks, and he's starting to eat exile everywhere he goes. I'm going to cut him for a bit. I also recently managed to free Mana Reflection from Nemata. I think I'll give it a shot in here, per Donald's suggestion.
-2 mountain, -1 swamp. +1 forest (hate not having one early) +Sol Ring +Mana Crypt. If I'm going all out, I'm going all out. Gotta get that mana up fast.
-Eternal Witness. I don't have anything I really need to recur, and I don't really have a way to recur the witness, and I really want more land... so... +Cultivate.
I think I may have a few many draw outlets in here, so in light of that, -Serum Tank. The think tank has been a hidden gem for me a while, even if you don't play artifacts yourself, everyone else does. And its always satisfying to have a ST with 7 charge counters on it. And the new guy goes, "Holy *&^*, what does that do!?," and you go... "It draws me a card." That's right, for 1 less than a Jayemdae tome. Oh right, I was going somewhere with this. +Fires of Yavimaya. Haste baby. Haste makes Waste. And Vaevictis likes laying Waste to things. God I'm terrible.
Actual decklist changes to occur when the cyclops arrive.
EDIT: Had to fix spelling for Jayemdae Tome. As always. I actually wasn't far off though! Just put the 'y' in between the wrong 'ae.'
Nemata stole Vorinclex before Vaevictis even had a chance (especially since it was given to me specifically for that deck).
Damnation. A solid removal. If I ever get slightly less lazy, I'll actually get some and replace that stupid chain reaction.
Sword of Fire and Ice actually just got removed. While a very good card, by the time I'm beating face, I don't need the cards as much, and my card draw was getting a bit redundant. It also did not give me as much protection as I would have liked. (and stopped psychotic Fury)
Garruk, Primal Hunter. Oh dear god almighty. If he wasn't $40 alone, he'd be in here in a heartbeat. I'd probably use the -3 ability off the bat though, simply because this deck doesn't have a concept of defense.
Bladewing... was in here a while back, but I really don't like dropping VA in the gy, because I don't have any other real recursion. I'm also running less dragons now, so his use started to deteriorate.
Cards I like less:
Mana Echoes... isn't selling me. Infinite (and currently I cant even do that) colorless mana doesn't do much here.
Gratuitous Violence: massive effect, massive target on my face. No one will let me attack with VA if this is out.
I think Soul's Majesty would likely make a decent budget replacement, as I doubt that Garruk would stay around for any length of time.
Momentous Fall may also be worth a slot, as a way to capitalize on unavoidable loss, and regain tempo. Also serve to avoid Tuck.
As I haven't played Skullbriar in eons, and I'm still thinking of how to improve that deck (not really), I think I may steal my sac-outlet lands for Vaevictis, for added protection.
Mark for Death - Could be an amusing method through defenses.
Skullcrack - Lifegain and Damage Prevention irk me. It's a matter of principle.
Wrecking Ogre - Whooo baby! Double striking dragons are the best kind of dragons! This one is not bolded, because 5 is a stupid cost to pay, even with a stapled Giant Growth on it.
Green
Alpha Authority - Hexproof and blocking restrictions may be cool.
Skarrg Goliath - Large bloodrush cost, but a sizable pump, and added trample can be a solid hit.
Clan Defiance - Potential Fireball option for the deck.
Domri Rade - Never judge a PW on its ultimate, but the first two abilities are quite nice as well, with card advantage and removal easily fitting into the deck.
Ghor-Clan Rampager - Cheaper trample, with a more efficient mana boost than the goliath.
Ground Assault - Removal option, especially since the deck should be favoring more ramp.
Gruul Ragebeast - We play big creatures. This turns our big creature(s) into destruction.
Rubblehulk - Turns Vaevictis into a potential one-hit wonder.
Hi! Thanks for posting your list and keeping it up to date. I also think the Bloodrush keyword is going to be awesome for this type of aggro deck.
Just for the sake of conversation, I'll share my idea for Vaevictus.
I was working on an odd double general Jund deck, using both Wort the Raid Mother and Wort, Boggart Auntie. Ignoring the technical specifics of a double general EDH deck, the deck list was too fragmented.
This left me with a bunch of awesome Jund stuff that wants to be in a deck. Violent Ultimatum?!?! I am thinking of making it a Jund aggro deck with a heavy emphasis on removal of problem threats while I ramp up to ridiculousness that doesn't get played as often, like the sorcery mentioned above.
In looking for a general I wanted something that wrapped up the game all on it's own and is ridiculous. Enter Vaevictus Asmadi. An original Elder Dragon that looks like it was drawn by a high school art student and can easily be a one turn kill in a deck that ramps a lot. YES PLEASE.
I think I will borrow your ramp/land-destruction package, as it fits the deck so well. Also, Haste and Trample from the yard might attract graveyard hate, but I'm will to risk that. Thanks for posting.
Hi! Thanks for posting your list and keeping it up to date. I also think the Bloodrush keyword is going to be awesome for this type of aggro deck.
Just for the sake of conversation, I'll share my idea for Vaevictus.
I was working on an odd double general Jund deck, using both Wort the Raid Mother and Wort, Boggart Auntie. Ignoring the technical specifics of a double general EDH deck, the deck list was too fragmented.
This left me with a bunch of awesome Jund stuff that wants to be in a deck. Violent Ultimatum?!?! I am thinking of making it a Jund aggro deck with a heavy emphasis on removal of problem threats while I ramp up to ridiculousness that doesn't get played as often, like the sorcery mentioned above.
In looking for a general I wanted something that wrapped up the game all on it's own and is ridiculous. Enter Vaevictus Asmadi. An original Elder Dragon that looks like it was drawn by a high school art student and can easily be a one turn kill in a deck that ramps a lot. YES PLEASE.
I think I will borrow your ramp/land-destruction package, as it fits the deck so well. Also, Haste and Trample from the yard might attract graveyard hate, but I'm will to risk that. Thanks for posting.
No problem!
I'm gearing up (as always), to do an overhaul of Vaevictis soon. There are a few things I want to address in my current deck:
Lack of early creatures: This is harming my defensive and deterrent capabilities. I had this issue in my Nemata deck a while back, and my solution to it was to change most of the spell ramp into creatures like Wood Elves. In this case, this will help my early ramp a fair amount, as well as aid with my equipment. I think Blood Rush creatures would also help in this regard. I love Rubblehulk for example.
More mana sinks: The deck used to run Kumano, Master Yamabushi and Ashling, the pilgrim. I miss them. Olivia Voldaren is one of the stronger cards to make use of the massive amounts of mana I will have at my disposal, and I am never sad to see her. Increasing that set of effects would make me very happy in this deck.
More versatile removal: I don't remember when, but at one point I moved a lot of my removal to multiple used anti-artifact, and I miss the versatility. I like you suggestion of Violent Ultimatum.
Land Hate: You mentioned this in particular, so I figured I'd pick it up a bit. Jund obviously has the best land hate, as all 3 colors dip heavily into it. White has some old pieces of MLD, but nothing recent. The biggest advantage of Jund is that it has a lot of conditional Land hate, so you can tweak your deck to make it more 1-sided. In my case, I'm going to skew to an almost all-basic land base. This allows me to put in Destructive Flow, which alone I feel is an awesome reason to go Jund. It'll also open me to Ruination, Price of Progress as options, on top of Blood Moon and its Magus. Even what few non-basics I may choose to run, if they turn into mountains are still useful to me.
What I'm likely to take out are some of the Extra combat steps. Upping the creature count should give me some of the security to feel that I don't need to clean up the table in a single attack, and should open some diversity that I won't need to work around a Maze of Ith as much. Some of them will simply have to stay: Seize the Day remains an incredibly powerful card that is hard to compete for in its slot.
Creature based ramp sounds good. I might suggest Boundless Realms to really tear things up. In a deck that can afford it I see this card as an improvement on Mana Reflection, plus it's 1 green instead of 2, so you're not going to have this be a dead card. Thinning your deck, getting more resilient mana fixing and setting up for land destruction/mana denial cards like Ruination, Tectonic Break, Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon.
On another note, I'm looking at ways to get cheaply costed beaters out on turn 3 that can swing for 6 damage a turn while the rest of the players ramp or search for board wipe. For creatures that do work in a massive and dumb way: Elbrus, the Binding Blade, Rakdos, Lord of Riots (I think the mana dorks will usually satisfy the casting requirement), Abyssal Persecutor, Canker Abomination (an awesome early game play or response to a board wipe), Desecration Demon, Grinning Demon. Besides being 6/6's for 2-4 CMC (with the exception of Elbrus), each of them becomes removal for utility creatures as folks are forced to decide to block or not. They also force board wipes, which helps a deck with an 8 CMC general. They are also easy to cast after you destroy all the lands and they benefit from the equipment you already pack for Vaevictus.
I realize that last strategy is a bit clumsy, but what do you think? You could even throw in a fling for Vaevictus or any of those creatures. Imagine the opponent being at 15 and thinking they are cool with their flying blockers. You pump Vaevictus and toss it at their face. Or worst case, it turns a 7/7 for 2 into a 7 damage fireball for 3 + discard a card. Anyhow, definitely not an optimal strategy, but it could be fun.
On another note, I'm looking at ways to get cheaply costed beaters out on turn 3 that can swing for 6 damage a turn while the rest of the players ramp or search for board wipe. For creatures that do work in a massive and dumb way: Elbrus, the Binding Blade, Rakdos, Lord of Riots (I think the mana dorks will usually satisfy the casting requirement), Abyssal Persecutor, Canker Abomination (an awesome early game play or response to a board wipe), Desecration Demon, Grinning Demon. Besides being 6/6's for 2-4 CMC (with the exception of Elbrus), each of them becomes removal for utility creatures as folks are forced to decide to block or not. They also force board wipes, which helps a deck with an 8 CMC general. They are also easy to cast after you destroy all the lands and they benefit from the equipment you already pack for Vaevictus.
I realize that last strategy is a bit clumsy, but what do you think? You could even throw in a fling for Vaevictus or any of those creatures. Imagine the opponent being at 15 and thinking they are cool with their flying blockers. You pump Vaevictus and toss it at their face. Or worst case, it turns a 7/7 for 2 into a 7 damage fireball for 3 + discard a card. Anyhow, definitely not an optimal strategy, but it could be fun.
I would consider some of the Hatchling cycle over a number of those. Another way to abuse large amounts of power early in EDH is to abuse the multiplayer mechanics: Taurean Mauler always gets sizable, and Infested Roothold and Dragonlair Spider put out a lot of power in tokens.
I've been working on my own Vaevictis Asmadi EDH deck. My initial strategy was to use lots of land acceleration, including every landcycling creature available to VA's color identity, but tragically I found that VA is so ridiculously expensive to field that acceleration by itself is simply not enough. After getting beaten over the head by low-cost generals like Olivia Voldaren and Zur the Enchanter who needed no acceleration at all, I found that VA was only competitive against other high-cost generals like Karador, Ghost Chieftain, and by the time either general actually hit the table, one or both of us was already half-dead from ordinary creature combat. This was simply unacceptable, so I've decided to add land destruction to the mix to slow things down for my opponent.
I did find four things that were consistently successful about my old VA deck:
The first was cards that ran off of having lots of dead creatures because of all the landcycling creatures I was dumping, such as Lhurgoyf, Songs of the Damned, and Spider Spawning. To further capitalize on this, I'm leaning heavily on creatures that die to kill lands, such as Avalanche Rider, Barbarian Riftcutter, and Faultgrinder. I'm also going to make use of plenty of Bloodrush creatures to fatten up my graveyard.
The second was that once I'd cast VA once and he inevitably got killed, it was a heck of a lot easier to let him hit the graveyard instead of the command zone, and then bring him back with Zombify, Rise from the Grave, or Vigor Mortis. Vengeful Rebirth and Morgue Burst are also ridiculous when bringing VA back from the grave.
The fourth was mass damage with good old standbys Earthquake, Hurricane, and Savage Twister. Few creatures can stand up to that kind of damage, but VA can take a lot, so with enough land acceelration it doesn't take much to essentially Wrath the table but leave a very unhappy but very much alive Vaevictis Asmadi at the ready to amputate my opponent's face.
Just for giggles, I'm running Dragon Fangs, Dragon Breath, and Dragon Shadow, which work beautifully with VA. A 9/8 with Trample, Haste, Fear, and three colors of manabarfing is nothing to sneeze at.
Once I've gotten this deck put together and fielded, I'll try to remember to report back.
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StaffNicol Bolas is the more popular choice, but he really has a heavy threat hanging over his head. Also, everyone and their half brother knows about mr. Bolas, the other have significantly less love, and for no good reason! Instead, Vaevictis seemed to have a more concrete theme to me... He has three abilities, and they all do the same thing. When it comes to single minded cleaving of face, shedding of bones, and hearing the lamentations of women, Vaevictis has got you covered.
The deck follows that ideal. The entire goal is to pull out mr.Face Cleaver, and turn him sideways. With a general who costs 8, this isn't easy, but it is extremely satisfying.
This is one of the older decks that I have, and the one that has stayed most true to its original idea and execution.
1 Vaevictis Asmadi
RAMP - 16
0 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
3 Darksteel Ingot
3 Coalition Relic
2 Khalni Heart Expedition
3 Kodama's Reach
3 Cultivate
4 Explosive Vegetation
4 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
5 Frenzied Tilling - No, I don't hate Maze of Ith
4 Reap and Sow - Why do you ask?
2 Thunderscape Familiar
2 Walking Atlas
3 Yavimaya Elder
4 Solemn Simulacrum
6 Mana Reflection
CREATURES - 8
4 Madrush Cyclops
4 Anger - Haste
4 Brawn - Trample
4 Graveborn Muse - Draw
4 Olivia Voldren
5 Bloodgift Demon - Draw
5 Steel Hellkite
6 Godo, Bandit Warlord
EQUIPMENT / AURAS and such - 13
1 Infiltration Lens - draw
1 Skullclamp - draw
1 O-Naginata - trample
1 Rancor - trample
2 Lightning Greaves - haste, shroud
2 Swiftfoot Boots - haste, hexproof
2 Horned Helm - trample
3 Champion's Helm - shroud
3 Loxodon Warhammer - trample
3 Tenza, Godo's Maul - trample
3 Sword of Vengeance - trample, haste, ++
4 Helm of Kaldra - trample, haste, +
4 Bear Umbra - manas
2 Psychotic Fury
3 Fires of Yavimaya - Haste
4 Seize the Day
5 World at War
5 SAVAGE BEATING
5 In the Web of War - Haste
REMOVAL - 11
3 Delirium
2 Shattering Pulse
3 Krosan Grip
3 Putrefy
4 Grab the Reins
3 Chaos Warp
1x Red Sun's Zenith
3 Pernicious Deed
4x Black Sun's Zenith
4 Damnation
3x Lavalanche
CARD DRAW / TUTORS / etc - 6
3 Phyrexian Arena
4 Greater Good
5 Mind's Eye
2 Demonic Tutor
4 Night Dealings
5 Primal Command
-----------
LANDS - 39
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Skarrg, the Rage Pits
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Deserted Temple
1 Command Tower
1 Savage lands
1 Rakdos Cranarium
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Gruul Turf
1 Strip Mine
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Buried Ruin
1 Kher Keep
6 Mountain
7 Swamp
10 Forest
Notable Exclusions:
-Infinite Attack Combo with Aggravated Assault or Hellkite Charger. I don't want anyone else cramping on Vaevictus' style.
-Wrecking Ball - Chaos Warp
-Beacon of Unrest - Night Dealings
-Deglamer - Shattering spree - chaos warp handles the tuck now
-Sylvan Scrying
-Charnelhoard Wurm
-Terastodon - too slow.
+Chaos Warp
+Night Dealings
+Shattering Pulse
+Reap and Sow
+Godo, Bandit Warlord
+In the Web of War
Discovered what had replaced Seizan and wasn't recorded - Olivia Voldaren
-2 mountain
-swamp
-tainted wood
-tainted peak
-svogthos, the restless tomb
-sword of fire and ice
-fling
-Reaper of the Abyss
-Seedguide Ash
-Serum Tank
-2 mountain, -1 swamp.
-Eternal Witness
+Mana Reflection
+1 forest
+Sol Ring
+Mana Crypt
+Cultivate.
+Fires of Yavimaya
+Madrush Cyclops
+Swiftfoot Boots
+kodama's reach
+Strip mine, tectonic edge, ghost quarter
+kher keep
+Buried Ruin
+Shinka, the bloodsoaked keep
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
This deck really wants a Mana Reflection both to cast your commander earlier and it makes his firebreathing abilities very dangerous.
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StaffI ran Mana Flare and heartbeat of spring in the early version of the deck, and they eventually came out for not doing too much, but Mana Refelction could be a good addition for not being symmetric.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Black Creatures 2
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 Runescarred Demon
Black Spells 6
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Go for the Throat
1 Imp's Mischief
1 Liliana Vess
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Vampiric Tutor
Red Creatures 2
1 Bogradan Hellkite
1 Hellkite Charger
Red Spells 10
1 Aggravated Assault
1 Braid of Fire
1 Chaos Warp
1 Comet Storm
1 Reiterate
1 Savage Beating
1 Seize the Day
1 Shattering Spree
1 Star Storm
1 Wild Ricochet
Green Creatures 8
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Eternal Witness
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Terrastodon
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Wood Elves
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Bear Umbra
1 Cultivate
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Greater Good
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Krosan Grip
1 Praetor's Council
1 Momentus Fall
1 Nature's Lore
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Tooth and Nail
Gold Creatures 3
1 Broodmate Dragon
1 Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
1 Madrush Cyclops
Gold Spells 4
1 Fire of Yavimaya
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Putrefy
1 Sarkhan Vol
Artifact Creatures 3
1 Duplicant
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Manafacts 4
1 Coalition Relic
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Sol Ring
1 Thran Dynamo
Equips 4
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Mimic Vat
1 Mind's Eye
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Scroll Rack
Lands 37
1 Bayou
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Command Tower
1 Darigaz's Caldera
1 Dragon Skull Summit
10 Forest
7 Mountain
1 Raging Ravine
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Savage Lands
6 Swamp
1 Taiga
1 Temple of The False God
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Verdant Catacomb
1 Wooded Foothills
Some MVPs for me:
I never build a red list anymore without including Chaos Warp. It's just too valuable for tucking opponents awful permanents, and in my experience, they usually flip a land off their deck in the exchange.
I really like braid of fire as a way to pay for a bogardan hellkite or for pumping vaevictus.
Copy/redirect cards like reiterate and wild ricochet I always find are great for piggy backing on an opponents' ramp or tutors, or sending kill spells back at them.
I'd switch out some of your slower ramp spells like khalni heart and seedguide ash in favor of old standards like cultivate or kodama's reach. If you're able to get duals or shock lands, cards like skyshroud claim and wood elves are fantastic.
Finally, keep track during your games of your equips to creature ratios. You and I are running a similarly small list of creatures. I found that I was spending so much time ramping up to VA, that I didn't have a sufficient number of cheap blockers to deal with faster decks. One of my friends playing Thelon slapped me around pretty good before I could mount an adequate creature defense.
Good luck!
-Dolono
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
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StaffBraid of Fire seems interesting, but it might be a little narrow in my deck. I'll have to consider it.
Reiterate and Wild Ricochet were both in my deck for the purpose of piggybacking off of ramp or draw, but I found them to be too slow. I replaced them with actual ramp/draw and have been doing better. I do miss copying exsanguinates though.
I do like cultivate and kodama's, but it gets a bit tricky as to which ones to run. Khalni goes off fairly quickly, and ramps 3 lands out immeditately, so I like him. Seedguide can hold a sword. Lately he gets pathed quite a bit though.
I do own duals and shocks, but in singles, so it gets to be a pain to make proxies for every deck I have. My Cromat list runs (most of) the ones I have, and I could proxy them over... but right now I've been ok without them, so Ihaven't really pressed myself on including them. Skyshroud claim is a beast of a card though, and when I do get around to fixing my mana and ramp situation, you have a lot of good suggestions.
I find it to be dificult to run a heavy creature list with VA, he soaks up a lot of your mana on his own. That's why my creature list tends to be a bit on the cheaper side. I will gladly stick a sword or two early on my walking atlas. An atlas with a sword of vengeance and a sword of fire and ice is a scary thing to run into.
One champ who is missing from this list though... Godo, Bandit Warlod. I think he's making it into every single deck I run that has red in it. He's simply a phenomenal beatstick.
Also, I'm thinking of replacing a removal with Shattering Pulse.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
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Staff-Beacon of Unrest - Night Dealings
-Deglamer - Shattering spree - chaos warp handles the tuck now
-Sylvan Scrying
-Charnelhoard Wurm
-Terastodon - too slow.
+Chaos Warp
+Night Dealings
+Shattering Pulse
+Reap and Sow
+Godo, Bandit Warlord
+In the Web of War
for starts. Still looking at Cultivate, Kodama's, Mana Reflection, and Word of Seizing.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
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StaffTempted to add Fires of Yavimaya. Not sure what to replace. Will be playing this tonight and seeing what isn't clicking.
Tempted to cut about 4 lands and replace with mana rocks. I am not sure why Sol Ring isn't on the list. No, seriously, I have no idea when that got lost on the make-up. It used to be in here, now I realize its not. This is an issue. I've also been looking for a deck for my Mana Crypt I think this one may qualify.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
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StaffReaper of the Abyss is a large target, with little effect in this deck. I'm not packing major amounts of removal, so I'm depending on other people killing stuff. Oddly, they choose to kill him. I found who's tagging out for the Madrush Cyclops (should arrive soon).
Seedguide Ash is good. I may be using him too much though. He's in several decks, and he's starting to eat exile everywhere he goes. I'm going to cut him for a bit. I also recently managed to free Mana Reflection from Nemata. I think I'll give it a shot in here, per Donald's suggestion.
-2 mountain, -1 swamp. +1 forest (hate not having one early) +Sol Ring +Mana Crypt. If I'm going all out, I'm going all out. Gotta get that mana up fast.
-Eternal Witness. I don't have anything I really need to recur, and I don't really have a way to recur the witness, and I really want more land... so... +Cultivate.
I think I may have a few many draw outlets in here, so in light of that, -Serum Tank. The think tank has been a hidden gem for me a while, even if you don't play artifacts yourself, everyone else does. And its always satisfying to have a ST with 7 charge counters on it. And the new guy goes, "Holy *&^*, what does that do!?," and you go... "It draws me a card." That's right, for 1 less than a Jayemdae tome. Oh right, I was going somewhere with this. +Fires of Yavimaya. Haste baby. Haste makes Waste. And Vaevictis likes laying Waste to things. God I'm terrible.
Actual decklist changes to occur when the cyclops arrive.
EDIT: Had to fix spelling for Jayemdae Tome. As always. I actually wasn't far off though! Just put the 'y' in between the wrong 'ae.'
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
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StaffDiscovered what had replaced Seizan and wasn't recorded - Olivia Voldaren
-2 mountain
-swamp
-tainted wood
-tainted peak
-svogthos, the restless tomb
-sword of fire and ice
+kodama's reach
+Strip mine, tectonic edge, ghost quarter
+kher keep
+Buried Ruin
+Shinka, the bloodsoaked keep
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Seem legit.
My Decks:
:symr::symr::symr: Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker :symr::symr::symr:
:symb::symb::symb: Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker :symb::symb::symb:
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StaffThe cards I like:
Nemata stole Vorinclex before Vaevictis even had a chance (especially since it was given to me specifically for that deck).
Damnation. A solid removal. If I ever get slightly less lazy, I'll actually get some and replace that stupid chain reaction.
Sword of Fire and Ice actually just got removed. While a very good card, by the time I'm beating face, I don't need the cards as much, and my card draw was getting a bit redundant. It also did not give me as much protection as I would have liked. (and stopped psychotic Fury)
Garruk, Primal Hunter. Oh dear god almighty. If he wasn't $40 alone, he'd be in here in a heartbeat. I'd probably use the -3 ability off the bat though, simply because this deck doesn't have a concept of defense.
Bladewing... was in here a while back, but I really don't like dropping VA in the gy, because I don't have any other real recursion. I'm also running less dragons now, so his use started to deteriorate.
Cards I like less:
Mana Echoes... isn't selling me. Infinite (and currently I cant even do that) colorless mana doesn't do much here.
Gratuitous Violence: massive effect, massive target on my face. No one will let me attack with VA if this is out.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
My Decks:
:symr::symr::symr: Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker :symr::symr::symr:
:symb::symb::symb: Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker :symb::symb::symb:
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StaffMomentous Fall may also be worth a slot, as a way to capitalize on unavoidable loss, and regain tempo. Also serve to avoid Tuck.
As I haven't played Skullbriar in eons, and I'm still thinking of how to improve that deck (not really), I think I may steal my sac-outlet lands for Vaevictis, for added protection.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
My Decks:
:symr::symr::symr: Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker :symr::symr::symr:
:symb::symb::symb: Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker :symb::symb::symb:
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StaffMana Reflections has indeed been added to the list somewhere in there.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
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StaffBlack
Red
Green
Multi
Artifacts and Land
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Just for the sake of conversation, I'll share my idea for Vaevictus.
I was working on an odd double general Jund deck, using both Wort the Raid Mother and Wort, Boggart Auntie. Ignoring the technical specifics of a double general EDH deck, the deck list was too fragmented.
This left me with a bunch of awesome Jund stuff that wants to be in a deck. Violent Ultimatum?!?! I am thinking of making it a Jund aggro deck with a heavy emphasis on removal of problem threats while I ramp up to ridiculousness that doesn't get played as often, like the sorcery mentioned above.
In looking for a general I wanted something that wrapped up the game all on it's own and is ridiculous. Enter Vaevictus Asmadi. An original Elder Dragon that looks like it was drawn by a high school art student and can easily be a one turn kill in a deck that ramps a lot. YES PLEASE.
I think I will borrow your ramp/land-destruction package, as it fits the deck so well. Also, Haste and Trample from the yard might attract graveyard hate, but I'm will to risk that. Thanks for posting.
Sydri's Magical Castle WUB
Chainer, Dementia Master: "Bring out your dead!" BBB
Riku Because Copying Decimate URG
Xira Arien, Jund StaxBRG
The Sylvan-Primordial-PlasmBUG
Trostani ComboGW
Vizkopa Guildmage - Peasant VariantBW
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StaffNo problem!
I'm gearing up (as always), to do an overhaul of Vaevictis soon. There are a few things I want to address in my current deck:
What I'm likely to take out are some of the Extra combat steps. Upping the creature count should give me some of the security to feel that I don't need to clean up the table in a single attack, and should open some diversity that I won't need to work around a Maze of Ith as much. Some of them will simply have to stay: Seize the Day remains an incredibly powerful card that is hard to compete for in its slot.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Dude, if I send you blank cards, will you make all my generals for me?
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
Creature based ramp sounds good. I might suggest Boundless Realms to really tear things up. In a deck that can afford it I see this card as an improvement on Mana Reflection, plus it's 1 green instead of 2, so you're not going to have this be a dead card. Thinning your deck, getting more resilient mana fixing and setting up for land destruction/mana denial cards like Ruination, Tectonic Break, Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon.
Also, if you are swapping derpy creatures in, how about Skull Clamp? It can turn a late game Yavimaya Elder or Sakura Tribe Elder in to a fresh grip of cards.
For removal, I'm considering: Hull Breach, Artifact Mutation, Decimate, Fumarole, Dreadbore, Phyrexian Purge, Hex, Maelstrom Pulse, Putrify, Violent Ultimatum.
On another note, I'm looking at ways to get cheaply costed beaters out on turn 3 that can swing for 6 damage a turn while the rest of the players ramp or search for board wipe. For creatures that do work in a massive and dumb way: Elbrus, the Binding Blade, Rakdos, Lord of Riots (I think the mana dorks will usually satisfy the casting requirement), Abyssal Persecutor, Canker Abomination (an awesome early game play or response to a board wipe), Desecration Demon, Grinning Demon. Besides being 6/6's for 2-4 CMC (with the exception of Elbrus), each of them becomes removal for utility creatures as folks are forced to decide to block or not. They also force board wipes, which helps a deck with an 8 CMC general. They are also easy to cast after you destroy all the lands and they benefit from the equipment you already pack for Vaevictus.
I realize that last strategy is a bit clumsy, but what do you think? You could even throw in a fling for Vaevictus or any of those creatures. Imagine the opponent being at 15 and thinking they are cool with their flying blockers. You pump Vaevictus and toss it at their face. Or worst case, it turns a 7/7 for 2 into a 7 damage fireball for 3 + discard a card. Anyhow, definitely not an optimal strategy, but it could be fun.
Beyond those odd creatures, I'm thinking that loading in some other pump creatures, like Inferno Titan, Ancient Hellkite, Hellkite Charger, Hellkite Overlord and Shivan Overlord could be nice beats. They work great with Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon. All that is predicated on playing a large amount of ramp.
Sydri's Magical Castle WUB
Chainer, Dementia Master: "Bring out your dead!" BBB
Riku Because Copying Decimate URG
Xira Arien, Jund StaxBRG
The Sylvan-Primordial-PlasmBUG
Trostani ComboGW
Vizkopa Guildmage - Peasant VariantBW
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StaffHah! Thanks!
I may have to charge you a commission...
I would consider some of the Hatchling cycle over a number of those. Another way to abuse large amounts of power early in EDH is to abuse the multiplayer mechanics: Taurean Mauler always gets sizable, and Infested Roothold and Dragonlair Spider put out a lot of power in tokens.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
I did find four things that were consistently successful about my old VA deck:
The first was cards that ran off of having lots of dead creatures because of all the landcycling creatures I was dumping, such as Lhurgoyf, Songs of the Damned, and Spider Spawning. To further capitalize on this, I'm leaning heavily on creatures that die to kill lands, such as Avalanche Rider, Barbarian Riftcutter, and Faultgrinder. I'm also going to make use of plenty of Bloodrush creatures to fatten up my graveyard.
The second was that once I'd cast VA once and he inevitably got killed, it was a heck of a lot easier to let him hit the graveyard instead of the command zone, and then bring him back with Zombify, Rise from the Grave, or Vigor Mortis. Vengeful Rebirth and Morgue Burst are also ridiculous when bringing VA back from the grave.
The third is that any spell that runs off of a creature's power is insane with VA. Soul's Fire, Soul's Majesty, Soul's Might, and Predator's Rapport are nuts.
The fourth was mass damage with good old standbys Earthquake, Hurricane, and Savage Twister. Few creatures can stand up to that kind of damage, but VA can take a lot, so with enough land acceelration it doesn't take much to essentially Wrath the table but leave a very unhappy but very much alive Vaevictis Asmadi at the ready to amputate my opponent's face.
Just for giggles, I'm running Dragon Fangs, Dragon Breath, and Dragon Shadow, which work beautifully with VA. A 9/8 with Trample, Haste, Fear, and three colors of manabarfing is nothing to sneeze at.
Once I've gotten this deck put together and fielded, I'll try to remember to report back.