Alright so Grisly Salvage is going out of the deck for read the bones probably. The dig is nice but since I've severely dropped my creature count it's hitting less and less, and throwing away more value than creatures. Tonight for example I threw away A living Death, Oblivion Ring, Swords to plowshares, and a Greater good. But don't worry... that last card was a temple garden Definitely not going to let that happen again so... I'ts gone lol I know there are a lot of draw spells for 2 cmc, but I do like the scry a lot more than 1 less cmc.
I am curious guys, how do your deal with control decks? I mean like massive, counterspell heavy control decks?
For control decks, honestly there isn't much I can do different. I just seem to draw well and win, or I don't draw well and I lose. There aren't very many of those in my meta though so im lucky. Theres a lot more combo than hardcore counter control. so im thankful.
I think the key is getting sword of feast and famine early, so you can make any creature a threat, or even better to be able to have a lightning greaves/swiftfoot boots out so you can give stuff hexproof/shroud and haste. That usually wins it for me. the haste is killer. you added the dauntless escort in correct? i could definitely see that being extremely helpful. or maybe even golgari charm. all three abilities can be very useful.
(im assunming that a high counter deck also uses a lot of board wipes, correct me if im wrong though). Also its just about having multiple threats to play. Once the first one is countered, playing the better one. Rinse and repeat that process. That definitely helped me as well. they will run out EVENTUALLY lol
Sorry about the late posting. You know, school. I haven't even gotten a chance to get my hands on the new merchandise. Hopefully I can tomorrow.
==Dragons of Tarkir Preview==
Hidden Dragonslayer: While the removal is useful, I don't think morph merits a slot, simply because it is too much mana.
Ojutai Exemplars: A useful creature but I don't think he needs a slot here. Non-creature spells isn't someting we take advantage of as much as other decks.
Sunscorch Regent: In a game of commander, this guy could potentially get really huge and gain you a lot of life. Of course, in a game of commander, this guy could get removed a lot easily.
Damnable Pact: This is a good card draw engine, as well as an alternative win con. I'm not sure if it is worth the slot, but testing will see. If you are looking for some more card draw in your deck, this maybe a card to consider.
Sidisi, Undead Vizier: Demonic Tutor on a stick. I was initially very excited about this card, but I'm not sure what to cut for it. Keep in mind, we already have Rune-Scarred Demon But having a DT effect on a stick can be really useful. I want to run her, I just need to find a slot. For you, if you're looking for a third DT effect, I would run her.
Den Protector: Again, I don't think this is a good enough card, simply because of the morph. Reanimating it doesn't trigger it's ability, and if you want immediate value, you have to play this for both 3 mana and its morph cost.
Shaman of Forgotten Ways: Biorhythm is banned in commander for a reason. But I don't think this card is breakable enough. It needs a whole turn to activate his ability, 9 mana, and 8 power on the board, all of which can be disrupted. Even with a haste outlet, all the mana, and the 8 power, that is way too much set up for a potential game winning combo that is situational on its own. Now, that being said, this card is awesome. I just don't think this is the deck for it.
Surrak, the Hunt Caller: This is a potential way of giving Teneb haste. Formidable will always trigger. I am not sure if it is good enough to have his own slot, but we are always in search of haste outlets.
Dragonlord Dromoka: Think Grand Abolisher in dragon form. For 4 mana, you get a beefy flyer who can't be countered upgrade. I also want this guy in but again, can't really find anything to cut.
Dromoka's Command: I had high hopes for this card. Instant fight can be removal, but of course it is situational. Enchantment removal can come in better forms. While I love versatility, I don't think this brings much to the table.
Overall, this set has brought a lot to the table in terms of the commander, but comes at a weird time for where the build is at right now. We have enough tech to build a solid core. Most of the cards I want to add are subpar or slightly better versions than cards we already have. I think any changes will come in time but as of right now the build will stay as it is, with Sidisi, Undead Vizier and Dragonlord Dromoka on our radars.
This deck just keeps getting better and better! Great work!
Have you ever considered Unburial Rites? It seems like a really good card! Also, what about Rogue's Passage to get Teneb through?
Thank you!
Unburial Rites does seem like a good card, and I've been reconsidering my reanimation package lately. I may consider it, just because it has a lot of late game reach.
Rogue's Passage does seem like a way to get some damage through. There is a couple issue with this card:
This deck has a lot of colorless sources already which bothers me. Another may skew the color fixing for this deck.
If you wanted to do it in one whole swoop (Pay the unblockable and reanimate) that would cost 6B.
Also, if the issue is that you're not getting damage through because of chump blocking or what not, maybe consider trample. Even if 1 damage goes over, you can still activate his ability. Trample, huh, that actually got me thinking...
Overall, right now I am thinking of redoing the mana base. I think there are too many colorless sources and utility lands and not enough fixing. I am taking out the Scry lands and other tap lands, mainly because the issue I had before was I was losing way too much tempo. The scrying has been somewhat irrelevant lately. I think I'm going to take them out for the check lands (Sunpetal Grove and Company). I am also considering painlands as well (Brushland and company). Overall, I think it will help the speed of the deck.
I also want to look at a couple of options I think this deck needs. One is protection against counters. Grand Abolisher does a fine job but I feel we need more. Dragonlord Dromoka, City of Solitude and company are all options for our anti counter movement. I feel like Boseiju, Who Shelters All has been underperforming lately. It was mostly to protect Living Death when we cast it for the win, but maybe we need something else that doesn't slow us down or drain life. Two, I want to look at possible options for global pump. Specifically, haste enablers and tramplers. Surrak the Hunt Caller, Nylea, God of the Hunt are the kind of cards I am looking at.
What are your guys' thoughts? The new land list will be up by the end of the week for review and probably be added sometime during the weekend.
Hey! I wanted to ask you for a favor. I wanted to go to a Grand Prix in May, and I was planning on entering the Commander tournament. I was wondering if you could draft a tournament list for me. This list is awesome, I just don't think it can keep up with the combo lists that will be there. If it is too much trouble, then don't worry. Thanks
nlightened tutor never helped, if people are shocked at that one. I never was able to tutor for anything good. either mirari's wake or oblivion ring, sure maybe sword of feast and famine, but i would much rather hit a good target for reanimation or to initially play.
Grisly salvage hurt more than helped when it threw away good enchantments or spells
mentor of heroes was just eh. It helped when i had way more creatures but now that ive cut multiple it doesn't mater anymore.
cutting clique kinda hurt but new sidisi is better for me. If i find a weak card somewhere i might throw it back in but it sitting prety well in my tasigur deck right now.. lol
Hey! I wanted to ask you for a favor. I wanted to go to a Grand Prix in May, and I was planning on entering the Commander tournament. I was wondering if you could draft a tournament list for me. This list is awesome, I just don't think it can keep up with the combo lists that will be there. If it is too much trouble, then don't worry. Thanks
Yes! I can work on drafting one by the end of this week.
nlightened tutor never helped, if people are shocked at that one. I never was able to tutor for anything good. either mirari's wake or oblivion ring, sure maybe sword of feast and famine, but i would much rather hit a good target for reanimation or to initially play.
Grisly salvage hurt more than helped when it threw away good enchantments or spells
mentor of heroes was just eh. It helped when i had way more creatures but now that ive cut multiple it doesn't mater anymore.
cutting clique kinda hurt but new sidisi is better for me. If i find a weak card somewhere i might throw it back in but it sitting prety well in my tasigur deck right now.. lol
The thing about Enlightened Tutor is it searches for two of the main engines for Teneb: Lightning Greaves and Sword of Feast and Famine. Both of those cards take Teneb from a 6/6 dragon to a flying death machine. You should be able to have all the tools you can to find both of them. In addition, It can find Necromancy, Mirrari's Wake, Oblivion Ring, and Sylvan Library. All are flexible enchantments that can help you take your board state or card advantage to the next level. I think you should reconsider using it.
What do you think about Victimize for Reanimation package? It could even be a 3-for-1 if you have Mikaues out, but unfortunately you've got the citp tapped, plus it's a sorcery...
What do you think about Victimize for Reanimation package? It could even be a 3-for-1 if you have Mikaues out, but unfortunately you've got the citp tapped, plus it's a sorcery...
I like the card. My concern with cards is the flexibility they offer in all points of the game. In the early game, you need two creatures in your yard AND a creature in play to make it viable, while in the late game it is undoubtedly an all star. If your goal is to find a reanimation spell that can 2-for-1 (Mikaeus, the Unhallowed is not only conditional, but it is one of those cards where it pretty much has synergy with almost everything) then I think you need to look elsewhere. Victimize can give you two creatures for a small fee, but Unburial Rites gives you two creatures with more reach. You don't need to bring both creatures out, instead bring one and sit and wait to bring another when you need it. I think it boils down to what kind of deck you're running. If you're looking to go in swift with an aggro strategy and having an aggressivly low curve, then that maybe the card for you. However, if you want to stick with it for the long haul in a grindy match up, you may want Rites. Also consider Beacon of Unrest, Phyrexian Delver, and Karmic Guide; all cards that can be used multiple times to recur creatures.
By the way everyone, I just wanted to let you know the navigation bug has been fixed. You can now use the Table of Contents in the OP. Thank you all for your patience!
I see you're currently rethinking your lands. Might I suggest Horizon Canopy? I use it in my Karador list, but I also run Life from the Loam and the cycling lands (Tranquil Thicket and such). You may not get much use out of it since your only way to recur it is with Sun Titan, but it might still be something for you to think about. I absolutely love it myself.
I see you're currently rethinking your lands. Might I suggest Horizon Canopy? I use it in my Karador list, but I also run Life from the Loam and the cycling lands (Tranquil Thicket and such). You may not get much use out of it since your only way to recur it is with Sun Titan, but it might still be something for you to think about. I absolutely love it myself.
Thank you for your input!
Cards like this require not only Life from the Loam but also Crucible of Worlds. They are great when you can abuse bringing them back. I think if I wanted a draw engine for a land, I would probably pick Grim Backwoods. It is self sustaining and doesn't need other cards to be good (you'll always have creatures to ditch) and can be used again and again.
Later today I am going to post a list I will be running tonight as well as the new mana base. I have been thinking about adding Surrak the Hunt Caller recently to help with the haste problem. What are your guys' thoughts?
Alright fine... you're probably right... I'll get it back in there... lol
About Victimize, I can honestly say that this card has turned the game around for me on multiple occasions, but also I've drawn it early game and it just sit in my hand for awhile until someone hits me with a discard or I finally am able to play it. I love the card, and have seen it work way too many times to ever consider taking it out... at least for now lol
And the new Sidisi is pretty freakin great not gonna lie. I had a nasty combo with him eating itself, and my teneb going in for damage, then paying 3 to reanimate it back, and sacrificing itself. Another reanimation target that tutors, YES YES YES
Alright fine... you're probably right... I'll get it back in there... lol
About Victimize, I can honestly say that this card has turned the game around for me on multiple occasions, but also I've drawn it early game and it just sit in my hand for awhile until someone hits me with a discard or I finally am able to play it. I love the card, and have seen it work way too many times to ever consider taking it out... at least for now lol
And the new Sidisi is pretty freakin great not gonna lie. I had a nasty combo with him eating itself, and my teneb going in for damage, then paying 3 to reanimate it back, and sacrificing itself. Another reanimation target that tutors, YES YES YES
Oh c'mon, it can't be THAT bad!
I recently have been testing the new Sidisi, and I was really sketchy about it. I think because the promo was valued at 15 bucks (which I feel is way too much). But I sucked it up and decided to play it. It definitely is a strong card, but needs more reanimation to "exploit" it to the fullest. I think where Sidisi shines would be a combo version of Teneb, so she can fetch your combo pieces and double as a big booty blocker.
Alright fine... you're probably right... I'll get it back in there... lol
About Victimize, I can honestly say that this card has turned the game around for me on multiple occasions, but also I've drawn it early game and it just sit in my hand for awhile until someone hits me with a discard or I finally am able to play it. I love the card, and have seen it work way too many times to ever consider taking it out... at least for now lol
And the new Sidisi is pretty freakin great not gonna lie. I had a nasty combo with him eating itself, and my teneb going in for damage, then paying 3 to reanimate it back, and sacrificing itself. Another reanimation target that tutors, YES YES YES
Oh c'mon, it can't be THAT bad!
I recently have been testing the new Sidisi, and I was really sketchy about it. I think because the promo was valued at 15 bucks (which I feel is way too much). But I sucked it up and decided to play it. It definitely is a strong card, but needs more reanimation to "exploit" it to the fullest. I think where Sidisi shines would be a combo version of Teneb, so she can fetch your combo pieces and double as a big booty blocker.
It's not that bad, I just like to exaggerate lol Maybe the sidisi is just better in my version since You are running more of a control variant and I'm running more of a midrange Beatdown kinda of variant.
I was playing my brother's Riku deck yesterday and I had greater good out, but even with that I couldn't get my land flow steadied out. It seems like I have games that extremely stale me on lands even when I have fetch lands to shuffle and stuff.
I think I'm going to add in my Oracle of Mul Daya and/or Azusa, lost but seeking. With greater good out it will really help me to be able to drop multiple lands so i can get ahead of the curve. But I'm going to need help cutting things. Any suggestions guys?
Do you guys also think that I need both of them or just one?
This is the new mana base for the main decklist. The colors are more fixed and the number of utility lands have decreased. I would like to know your guy's thoughts for this:
Also, after much testing, I decided that Sidisi, Undead Vizer will not make it in my main build. When it came down to it, Sidisi was fighting for a spot with Liliana Vess. When it comes down to it, Sidisi maybe more abusable, easier to tutor for, and recur. But if you have to tutor for a tutor, that feels like a tempo loss. Sidisi would be stronger in decks that feature Birthing Pod and company, but in general, Liliana can tutor twice and stay around to give you fuel for Teneb.
I also am thinking about adding some mana rocks or a different ramp package. Thoughts?
This is the new mana base for the main decklist. The colors are more fixed and the number of utility lands have decreased. I would like to know your guy's thoughts for this:
Also, after much testing, I decided that Sidisi, Undead Vizer will not make it in my main build. When it came down to it, Sidisi was fighting for a spot with Liliana Vess. When it comes down to it, Sidisi maybe more abusable, easier to tutor for, and recur. But if you have to tutor for a tutor, that feels like a tempo loss. Sidisi would be stronger in decks that feature Birthing Pod and company, but in general, Liliana can tutor twice and stay around to give you fuel for Teneb.
I also am thinking about adding some mana rocks or a different ramp package. Thoughts?
Took out
Restoration angel
Altar of dementia
Wrath of god
Dread return
Added
Worldly tutor
Azusa lost but seeking
Terminus
Don't remember the last card lol
Interesting, explain why Terminus over Wrath of God. I would think with the tuck change that Terminus would fall out of favor.
I have been facing a lot of decks that feature Gods as a main key point of strategies. With that in mind, I'm adding terminus. The wrath has never showed up at an early time to which I needed it on t4. When I don't see any exile stuff, or Oblivion Ring I'd like to be able to handle gods especially if they are active.
My deck has had a LOT of problem with Tempo recently. I get stuck on a certain number of lands and I never seem to draw them like I should. I'm always hungry for mana starting out then I get flooded as the late game arrives. My deck has loss the "tempo" and is in the middle of midrange and control. Not sure when that happened but its really been losing it's effectiveness recently. So I'm hoping once I add in these new cards and do some testing that I can find the deck again as good as it once was.
About that New Sidisi, I honestly Have been playing Sidisi before I play Liliana, But I also think that since it's loss some tempo, that Im doing it because I need another body out on the ground, and the tutor is just extra. So im going to really be adding in some new material soon so I can find the smoothness that it once was.
The deck has been pushing more of a reanimator strategy and I need to refocus the deck so the reanimator is a BACKUP strategy for when the stuff gets put in the graveyard, does that make sense?
Also how have you been liking Kor haven and Mana confluence?
My meta has had a surge in control decks recently, and I have been looking for more ways to stop them. Dromoka has been a huge help in testing. It makes sure no one can do things during your turn, which is always nice. Decay is a niche removal spell that was just better in all cases against Big Game Hunter. Garruk got in simply because he does essentially the same as Skyshroud (Up you two mana) but can do so much more than Skyshroud. Making a dude to sac or block (even attack) and his final is very plausible. Overall, the change was designed for more flexibility and efficiency.
Also, I have added a more cutthroat combo version in the Alternative Build section under Extras. Go check it out and give me feedback.
I have been considering Gaddock Teeg, but he stops a grand total of ten cards in my deck. I feel like that is negotiable enough to run him. What are your thoughts?
I have been facing a lot of decks that feature Gods as a main key point of strategies. With that in mind, I'm adding terminus. The wrath has never showed up at an early time to which I needed it on t4. When I don't see any exile stuff, or Oblivion Ring I'd like to be able to handle gods especially if they are active.
My deck has had a LOT of problem with Tempo recently. I get stuck on a certain number of lands and I never seem to draw them like I should. I'm always hungry for mana starting out then I get flooded as the late game arrives. My deck has loss the "tempo" and is in the middle of midrange and control. Not sure when that happened but its really been losing it's effectiveness recently. So I'm hoping once I add in these new cards and do some testing that I can find the deck again as good as it once was.
About that New Sidisi, I honestly Have been playing Sidisi before I play Liliana, But I also think that since it's loss some tempo, that Im doing it because I need another body out on the ground, and the tutor is just extra. So im going to really be adding in some new material soon so I can find the smoothness that it once was.
The deck has been pushing more of a reanimator strategy and I need to refocus the deck so the reanimator is a BACKUP strategy for when the stuff gets put in the graveyard, does that make sense?
Also how have you been liking Kor haven and Mana confluence?
The thing about Gods is that they all got a LOT better with the new tuck rule. This means that Gods are unstoppable commanders and more people will be playing them for value. If you're looking for targeted removal, look for Deglamer and Deicide (It isn't the greatest, but hey, if you want god hate, thats pretty much the top shelf). If you want to tuck a mass number of them, Merciless Eviction is a better choice than Terminus.
Kor Haven has saved my butt more than once. It is all around a fantastic land. In my meta there is very little land destruction, which means you can hold most voltron creatures at bay. And confluence is just a fantastic color fixer. So I guess my answer is I love them both. Why do you ask? Have you been having trouble with them? Interested in adding them?
My meta has had a surge in control decks recently, and I have been looking for more ways to stop them. Dromoka has been a huge help in testing. It makes sure no one can do things during your turn, which is always nice. Decay is a niche removal spell that was just better in all cases against Big Game Hunter. Garruk got in simply because he does essentially the same as Skyshroud (Up you two mana) but can do so much more than Skyshroud. Making a dude to sac or block (even attack) and his final is very plausible. Overall, the change was designed for more flexibility and efficiency.
Also, I have added a more cutthroat combo version in the Alternative Build section under Extras. Go check it out and give me feedback.
I have been considering Gaddock Teeg, but he stops a grand total of ten cards in my deck. I feel like that is negotiable enough to run him. What are your thoughts?
The thing about Gods is that they all got a LOT better with the new tuck rule. This means that Gods are unstoppable commanders and more people will be playing them for value. If you're looking for targeted removal, look for Deglamer and Deicide (It isn't the greatest, but hey, if you want god hate, thats pretty much the top shelf). If you want to tuck a mass number of them, Merciless Eviction is a better choice than Terminus.
Kor Haven has saved my butt more than once. It is all around a fantastic land. In my meta there is very little land destruction, which means you can hold most voltron creatures at bay. And confluence is just a fantastic color fixer. So I guess my answer is I love them both. Why do you ask? Have you been having trouble with them? Interested in adding them?
I was looking at the land base and those other decks you have posted and I must say that my deck has a long way to go... lol
There are a TON of more cards That I honestly just didnt think about until now... like Oblation and Beast within and Deglamer
I think Kor haven would go great in my deck, as well as Mana Confluence. Life loss means little to me right now lol
I dont like the Idea of G.T. I think you'll see it more when you don't wanna see it in my opinion.
I looked at the deck lists and dont have time to tell you what i think but I will. Some cars I really liked the ide a of having
All mana bases take time. I don't think a lot of people realize how important your mana fixing options are. You could be running the best cards in Magic, but without a strong base, it isn't worth it. And like I said, it takes time.
I agree with all of those cards except Marshal's Anthem. I think Birthing Pod would be better for the slot, and if you wanted more recursion, then maybe look into Coffin Queen.
Those are very good cards to consider. The life loss from Mana Confluence isn't really an issue. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Chromatic Lantern would be super helpful as well.
My issue is I need more hate against blue/control players in general. Maybe I should just run Choke and be super sweaty
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Damnable Pact
Night's Whisper
Sign in Blood
Consider these also if you'd like.
I am curious guys, how do your deal with control decks? I mean like massive, counterspell heavy control decks?
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WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
For control decks, honestly there isn't much I can do different. I just seem to draw well and win, or I don't draw well and I lose. There aren't very many of those in my meta though so im lucky. Theres a lot more combo than hardcore counter control. so im thankful.
I think the key is getting sword of feast and famine early, so you can make any creature a threat, or even better to be able to have a lightning greaves/swiftfoot boots out so you can give stuff hexproof/shroud and haste. That usually wins it for me. the haste is killer. you added the dauntless escort in correct? i could definitely see that being extremely helpful. or maybe even golgari charm. all three abilities can be very useful.
(im assunming that a high counter deck also uses a lot of board wipes, correct me if im wrong though). Also its just about having multiple threats to play. Once the first one is countered, playing the better one. Rinse and repeat that process. That definitely helped me as well. they will run out EVENTUALLY lol
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Hidden Dragonslayer: While the removal is useful, I don't think morph merits a slot, simply because it is too much mana.
Ojutai Exemplars: A useful creature but I don't think he needs a slot here. Non-creature spells isn't someting we take advantage of as much as other decks.
Sunscorch Regent: In a game of commander, this guy could potentially get really huge and gain you a lot of life. Of course, in a game of commander, this guy could get removed a lot easily.
Damnable Pact: This is a good card draw engine, as well as an alternative win con. I'm not sure if it is worth the slot, but testing will see. If you are looking for some more card draw in your deck, this maybe a card to consider.
Sidisi, Undead Vizier: Demonic Tutor on a stick. I was initially very excited about this card, but I'm not sure what to cut for it. Keep in mind, we already have Rune-Scarred Demon But having a DT effect on a stick can be really useful. I want to run her, I just need to find a slot. For you, if you're looking for a third DT effect, I would run her.
Assault Formation: A potential Doran, the Siege Tower effect. I feel like this card is stronger in Doran than in Teneb.
Den Protector: Again, I don't think this is a good enough card, simply because of the morph. Reanimating it doesn't trigger it's ability, and if you want immediate value, you have to play this for both 3 mana and its morph cost.
Shaman of Forgotten Ways: Biorhythm is banned in commander for a reason. But I don't think this card is breakable enough. It needs a whole turn to activate his ability, 9 mana, and 8 power on the board, all of which can be disrupted. Even with a haste outlet, all the mana, and the 8 power, that is way too much set up for a potential game winning combo that is situational on its own. Now, that being said, this card is awesome. I just don't think this is the deck for it.
Surrak, the Hunt Caller: This is a potential way of giving Teneb haste. Formidable will always trigger. I am not sure if it is good enough to have his own slot, but we are always in search of haste outlets.
Dragonlord Dromoka: Think Grand Abolisher in dragon form. For 4 mana, you get a beefy flyer who can't be countered upgrade. I also want this guy in but again, can't really find anything to cut.
Dromoka's Command: I had high hopes for this card. Instant fight can be removal, but of course it is situational. Enchantment removal can come in better forms. While I love versatility, I don't think this brings much to the table.
Overall, this set has brought a lot to the table in terms of the commander, but comes at a weird time for where the build is at right now. We have enough tech to build a solid core. Most of the cards I want to add are subpar or slightly better versions than cards we already have. I think any changes will come in time but as of right now the build will stay as it is, with Sidisi, Undead Vizier and Dragonlord Dromoka on our radars.
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
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BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
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WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
Hey! Thank you so much for the kind words! If you have any questions or are looking for something specific, just give a holler!
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
Have you ever considered Unburial Rites? It seems like a really good card! Also, what about Rogue's Passage to get Teneb through?
Thank you!
Unburial Rites does seem like a good card, and I've been reconsidering my reanimation package lately. I may consider it, just because it has a lot of late game reach.
Rogue's Passage does seem like a way to get some damage through. There is a couple issue with this card:
Overall, right now I am thinking of redoing the mana base. I think there are too many colorless sources and utility lands and not enough fixing. I am taking out the Scry lands and other tap lands, mainly because the issue I had before was I was losing way too much tempo. The scrying has been somewhat irrelevant lately. I think I'm going to take them out for the check lands (Sunpetal Grove and Company). I am also considering painlands as well (Brushland and company). Overall, I think it will help the speed of the deck.
I also want to look at a couple of options I think this deck needs. One is protection against counters. Grand Abolisher does a fine job but I feel we need more. Dragonlord Dromoka, City of Solitude and company are all options for our anti counter movement. I feel like Boseiju, Who Shelters All has been underperforming lately. It was mostly to protect Living Death when we cast it for the win, but maybe we need something else that doesn't slow us down or drain life. Two, I want to look at possible options for global pump. Specifically, haste enablers and tramplers. Surrak the Hunt Caller, Nylea, God of the Hunt are the kind of cards I am looking at.
What are your guys' thoughts? The new land list will be up by the end of the week for review and probably be added sometime during the weekend.
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
Creatures 28
1 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Bloom Tender
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Quasali Pridemage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Knight of New Reliquary +
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
1 Siege Rhino
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Restoration Angel
1 Disciple Of Bolas
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier +
1 Dragonlord Dramoka +
1 Sun Titan
1 Grave titan
1 Massacre Wurm
1 Geth, lord of the Vault
1 Resolute Archangel +
1 Rune-scarred Demon
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cerobite
1 Ashen Rider
Sorceries 14
1 Farseek
1 Nature's Lore
1 Mulch
1 Demonic Tutor
1 life from the loam
1 Cultivate
1 Victimize
1 wrath of god
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Dread Return
1 living death
1 Unburial Rights
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Decree of Pain
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Swords of plowshares
1 Path to exile
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Abzan Charm
1 hero's downfall
1 Chord of Calling
1 Silence the believers
Enchantments 7
1 sylvan library
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Animate Dead
1 Aura Shards
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Greater Good
1 Mirari's Wake
Artifacts 4
1 Sensei's Diving top
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Altar of Dementia
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
Planeswalkers 2
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Liliana Vess
Lands 36
1 Winding Canyon
1 Command Tower
1 Temple garden
1 Overgrown tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Isolated chapel
1 sunpetal grove
1 woodland cemetary
1 temple of silence
1 temple of plenty
1 sandsteppe citadel
3 Plains
4 Forest
4 Swamp
1 Urborg, tomb yawgmoth
1 Verdant catacombs
1 marsh flats
1 windswept heath
1 polluted delta
1 bloodstained mire
1 wooded foothills
1 blossoming sands
1 temple of the gods
1 bojuka bog
1 razorverge thicket
1 stirring wildwood
1 Brushland
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Caves of Koilos
TAken out-
added
nlightened tutor never helped, if people are shocked at that one. I never was able to tutor for anything good. either mirari's wake or oblivion ring, sure maybe sword of feast and famine, but i would much rather hit a good target for reanimation or to initially play.
Grisly salvage hurt more than helped when it threw away good enchantments or spells
mentor of heroes was just eh. It helped when i had way more creatures but now that ive cut multiple it doesn't mater anymore.
cutting clique kinda hurt but new sidisi is better for me. If i find a weak card somewhere i might throw it back in but it sitting prety well in my tasigur deck right now.. lol
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Yes! I can work on drafting one by the end of this week.
The thing about Enlightened Tutor is it searches for two of the main engines for Teneb: Lightning Greaves and Sword of Feast and Famine. Both of those cards take Teneb from a 6/6 dragon to a flying death machine. You should be able to have all the tools you can to find both of them. In addition, It can find Necromancy, Mirrari's Wake, Oblivion Ring, and Sylvan Library. All are flexible enchantments that can help you take your board state or card advantage to the next level. I think you should reconsider using it.
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
I like the card. My concern with cards is the flexibility they offer in all points of the game. In the early game, you need two creatures in your yard AND a creature in play to make it viable, while in the late game it is undoubtedly an all star. If your goal is to find a reanimation spell that can 2-for-1 (Mikaeus, the Unhallowed is not only conditional, but it is one of those cards where it pretty much has synergy with almost everything) then I think you need to look elsewhere. Victimize can give you two creatures for a small fee, but Unburial Rites gives you two creatures with more reach. You don't need to bring both creatures out, instead bring one and sit and wait to bring another when you need it. I think it boils down to what kind of deck you're running. If you're looking to go in swift with an aggro strategy and having an aggressivly low curve, then that maybe the card for you. However, if you want to stick with it for the long haul in a grindy match up, you may want Rites. Also consider Beacon of Unrest, Phyrexian Delver, and Karmic Guide; all cards that can be used multiple times to recur creatures.
EDIT: Also, Welcome to the Forums!
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
Seriph0 on cockatrice
EDH Decks
WBGKaradorWBG
Thank you for your input!
Cards like this require not only Life from the Loam but also Crucible of Worlds. They are great when you can abuse bringing them back. I think if I wanted a draw engine for a land, I would probably pick Grim Backwoods. It is self sustaining and doesn't need other cards to be good (you'll always have creatures to ditch) and can be used again and again.
Later today I am going to post a list I will be running tonight as well as the new mana base. I have been thinking about adding Surrak the Hunt Caller recently to help with the haste problem. What are your guys' thoughts?
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
About Victimize, I can honestly say that this card has turned the game around for me on multiple occasions, but also I've drawn it early game and it just sit in my hand for awhile until someone hits me with a discard or I finally am able to play it. I love the card, and have seen it work way too many times to ever consider taking it out... at least for now lol
And the new Sidisi is pretty freakin great not gonna lie. I had a nasty combo with him eating itself, and my teneb going in for damage, then paying 3 to reanimate it back, and sacrificing itself. Another reanimation target that tutors, YES YES YES
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Oh c'mon, it can't be THAT bad!
I recently have been testing the new Sidisi, and I was really sketchy about it. I think because the promo was valued at 15 bucks (which I feel is way too much). But I sucked it up and decided to play it. It definitely is a strong card, but needs more reanimation to "exploit" it to the fullest. I think where Sidisi shines would be a combo version of Teneb, so she can fetch your combo pieces and double as a big booty blocker.
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
It's not that bad, I just like to exaggerate lol Maybe the sidisi is just better in my version since You are running more of a control variant and I'm running more of a midrange Beatdown kinda of variant.
I was playing my brother's Riku deck yesterday and I had greater good out, but even with that I couldn't get my land flow steadied out. It seems like I have games that extremely stale me on lands even when I have fetch lands to shuffle and stuff.
I think I'm going to add in my Oracle of Mul Daya and/or Azusa, lost but seeking. With greater good out it will really help me to be able to drop multiple lands so i can get ahead of the curve. But I'm going to need help cutting things. Any suggestions guys?
Do you guys also think that I need both of them or just one?
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Restoration angel
Altar of dementia
Wrath of god
Dread return
Added
Worldly tutor
Azusa lost but seeking
Terminus
Don't remember the last card lol
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
1 Bayou
1 Brushland
1 Caves of Kolis
1 Command Tower
1 Fetid Heath
3 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
1 Kor Haven
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Mana Confluence
1 Marsh Flats
1 Murmuring Bosk
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Sunpetal Grove
2 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
1 Twilight Mire
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Winding Canyons
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Woodland Cemetery
Also, after much testing, I decided that Sidisi, Undead Vizer will not make it in my main build. When it came down to it, Sidisi was fighting for a spot with Liliana Vess. When it comes down to it, Sidisi maybe more abusable, easier to tutor for, and recur. But if you have to tutor for a tutor, that feels like a tempo loss. Sidisi would be stronger in decks that feature Birthing Pod and company, but in general, Liliana can tutor twice and stay around to give you fuel for Teneb.
I also am thinking about adding some mana rocks or a different ramp package. Thoughts?
Interesting, explain why Terminus over Wrath of God. I would think with the tuck change that Terminus would fall out of favor.
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
I have been facing a lot of decks that feature Gods as a main key point of strategies. With that in mind, I'm adding terminus. The wrath has never showed up at an early time to which I needed it on t4. When I don't see any exile stuff, or Oblivion Ring I'd like to be able to handle gods especially if they are active.
My deck has had a LOT of problem with Tempo recently. I get stuck on a certain number of lands and I never seem to draw them like I should. I'm always hungry for mana starting out then I get flooded as the late game arrives. My deck has loss the "tempo" and is in the middle of midrange and control. Not sure when that happened but its really been losing it's effectiveness recently. So I'm hoping once I add in these new cards and do some testing that I can find the deck again as good as it once was.
About that New Sidisi, I honestly Have been playing Sidisi before I play Liliana, But I also think that since it's loss some tempo, that Im doing it because I need another body out on the ground, and the tutor is just extra. So im going to really be adding in some new material soon so I can find the smoothness that it once was.
The deck has been pushing more of a reanimator strategy and I need to refocus the deck so the reanimator is a BACKUP strategy for when the stuff gets put in the graveyard, does that make sense?
Also how have you been liking Kor haven and Mana confluence?
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
-Big Game Hunter
-Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
-Skyshroud Claim
+Abrupt Decay
+Dragonlord Dromoka
+Garruk Wildspeaker
My meta has had a surge in control decks recently, and I have been looking for more ways to stop them. Dromoka has been a huge help in testing. It makes sure no one can do things during your turn, which is always nice. Decay is a niche removal spell that was just better in all cases against Big Game Hunter. Garruk got in simply because he does essentially the same as Skyshroud (Up you two mana) but can do so much more than Skyshroud. Making a dude to sac or block (even attack) and his final is very plausible. Overall, the change was designed for more flexibility and efficiency.
Also, I have added a more cutthroat combo version in the Alternative Build section under Extras. Go check it out and give me feedback.
I have been considering Gaddock Teeg, but he stops a grand total of ten cards in my deck. I feel like that is negotiable enough to run him. What are your thoughts?
The thing about Gods is that they all got a LOT better with the new tuck rule. This means that Gods are unstoppable commanders and more people will be playing them for value. If you're looking for targeted removal, look for Deglamer and Deicide (It isn't the greatest, but hey, if you want god hate, thats pretty much the top shelf). If you want to tuck a mass number of them, Merciless Eviction is a better choice than Terminus.
Kor Haven has saved my butt more than once. It is all around a fantastic land. In my meta there is very little land destruction, which means you can hold most voltron creatures at bay. And confluence is just a fantastic color fixer. So I guess my answer is I love them both. Why do you ask? Have you been having trouble with them? Interested in adding them?
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
I was looking at the land base and those other decks you have posted and I must say that my deck has a long way to go... lol
Cards im looking at, expecially for my Meta:
Bane of Progress
Phyreian Tower
Volrath's Stronghold
Pernicious Dead
Utter End
Marshall's anthem if i put more creatures in there
Mumoring Bosk should have been in here months ago lol
There are a TON of more cards That I honestly just didnt think about until now... like Oblation and Beast within and Deglamer
I think Kor haven would go great in my deck, as well as Mana Confluence. Life loss means little to me right now lol
I dont like the Idea of G.T. I think you'll see it more when you don't wanna see it in my opinion.
I looked at the deck lists and dont have time to tell you what i think but I will. Some cars I really liked the ide a of having
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
All mana bases take time. I don't think a lot of people realize how important your mana fixing options are. You could be running the best cards in Magic, but without a strong base, it isn't worth it. And like I said, it takes time.
I agree with all of those cards except Marshal's Anthem. I think Birthing Pod would be better for the slot, and if you wanted more recursion, then maybe look into Coffin Queen.
Those are very good cards to consider. The life loss from Mana Confluence isn't really an issue. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Chromatic Lantern would be super helpful as well.
My issue is I need more hate against blue/control players in general. Maybe I should just run Choke and be super sweaty
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
Made my day.
Thank you so much for the list! I am going to try to put it together as fast as I can? I just need the mana rocks... and the dual lands...